Offline for a while

[Robert_325]

Have some personal business to attend to. If anyone is looking for me I'll be back in a few hours. I know some people will be looking for me this morning. Don't do anything, just wait a little bit and I'll be back.

[toni.s.]

I've been going through these sites daily for the past couple of weeks, and it's obvious that not only do you know what you're talking about when it comes to 'clean-living', but you've clearly been living a clean life too. I'm especially fond of your spiritual approach.
I'm currently on subutex.. but i desperately want to get off of it before too much time has passed. I went into a detox facility 5 weeks ago this past saturday.. and stupidly remained on this drug once out. Self-prescribed to boot! And I, although as unfortunate it is to admit, know that I haven't been taking it correctly. I have however gotten down to a low dose-due to the guilt of even taking it. But I'm not even sure if I'm stabilized being that my dose fluctuates from 0.5 to 0.25. I'll explain the mis-hap if u choose to work with me. My lowest dose of 0.25 was taken today after initially trying to quit, but caving in at 3pm.
Honestly, my biggest problem right now is my guilt. My boyfriend stopped taking about 2-3 wks ago and now feels great, and i foolishly kept taking slivers..ignorant to the true magnitude of the drug. But the hardest thing for me right now is the religious aspect. I'm currently going to both AA and NA meetings..and it's hard for me to get past the 2nd step. I want to surrender my life over to Him...but feel that if I'm trying to taper from subutex..I'm not doing so whole-heartedly. Do u think I should jump? I know the insanity of my brain..so I no longer feel equipped to judge whether my w/d's are substantial enough to stay on and keep tapering.
I'd be so grateful for your help. I've been beating myself up over this for a while now.
Thank you for your contributions to the site either way.

[toni.s.]

ywow...that sounded 'preachy'.
I've never been an overly religious person..but at 24, with 'all of the above' addictions..i'm going into AA/NA completely lacking life skills..and completely ready to start over. I've met a bunch of people happy in their lives..and thankful for the steps. I'm now trying to work them..but (and i mis-quoted earlier.) step 3 is hard for me to pass because i'm supposed to turn my life and will over. Isn't the continuance of a drug..kind of the opposite of surrendering your will. And just knowing that other people had to do it alone..without a drug aid..makes me feel worse. I guess i feel like i'm cheating..and cheating the system.
but i digress...
i guess my main questions is..i'm currently at 0.25..starting today...should i stabilize on this..and then skip days and jump?
or is my own insanity causing w/d's that aren't really there..and should i 'surrender my will' and deal with it?

[Robert_325]

I've been going through these sites daily for the past couple of weeks, and it's obvious that not only do you know what you're talking about when it comes to 'clean-living', but you've clearly been living a clean life too. I'm especially fond of your spiritual approach.
I'm currently on subutex.. but i desperately want to get off of it before too much time has passed. I went into a detox facility 5 weeks ago this past saturday.. and stupidly remained on this drug once out. Self-prescribed to boot! And I, although as unfortunate it is to admit, know that I haven't been taking it correctly. I have however gotten down to a low dose-due to the guilt of even taking it. But I'm not even sure if I'm stabilized being that my dose fluctuates from 0.5 to 0.25. I'll explain the mis-hap if u choose to work with me. My lowest dose of 0.25 was taken today after initially trying to quit, but caving in at 3pm.
Honestly, my biggest problem right now is my guilt. My boyfriend stopped taking about 2-3 wks ago and now feels great, and i foolishly kept taking slivers..ignorant to the true magnitude of the drug. But the hardest thing for me right now is the religious aspect. I'm currently going to both AA and NA meetings..and it's hard for me to get past the 2nd step. I want to surrender my life over to Him...but feel that if I'm trying to taper from subutex..I'm not doing so whole-heartedly. Do u think I should jump? I know the insanity of my brain..so I no longer feel equipped to judge whether my w/d's are substantial enough to stay on and keep tapering.
I'd be so grateful for your help. I've been beating myself up over this for a while now.
Thank you for your contributions to the site either way.

toni ..... It's natural to feel as if we are living a lie when we are trying to live with a relationship to a higher power, God, or whatever one wishes to refer to it as. Obviously for me it is Jesus Christ. I have a hard time being perfect as I am human, but I have a harder time lying, mostly to myself knowing that the spiritual force that gives me strength and pride in myself knows that I'm being less than honest and trying to fake HIM out! It's impossible to fake out God, He is all knowing. So it just makes sense to be honest or you'll never be able to complete that step 2. Remember that it says,"We came to believe ...." I've worked the 12 steps of recovery four times and it was very difficult for me the first time as I was a natural born liar as an addict. I understand your dilemma entirely.

My suggestion is that you jump off, but utilize the natural supplements of the Thomas Recipe. I would normally tell a person to taper down lower, but considering the emotional boost this will give you, the Thomas Recipe will pick up the slack, it's all totally natural supplements and you'll be able to look at yourself in the mirror and be happy at the person that is looking back at you.

Here is a link to the Thomas Recipe. I hope it helps. You'll get lots of support doing this on this forum. Post as often as you need to, but most important when you share in a meeting, as you work that second step you can do so with a clear conscience and have pride in yourself. The w/d symptoms won't be anything you can't handle, it won't be fun, but the emotional lift you get from doing your step work honestly will over ride any symptoms as you'll be pleased with yourself. I am proud of you already for being so honest. Good luck and let me know if I can help in the future. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...wal-35169.html

[Robert_325]

ywow...that sounded 'preachy'.
I've never been an overly religious person..but at 24, with 'all of the above' addictions..i'm going into AA/NA completely lacking life skills..and completely ready to start over. I've met a bunch of people happy in their lives..and thankful for the steps. I'm now trying to work them..but (and i mis-quoted earlier.) step 3 is hard for me to pass because i'm supposed to turn my life and will over. Isn't the continuance of a drug..kind of the opposite of surrendering your will. And just knowing that other people had to do it alone..without a drug aid..makes me feel worse. I guess i feel like i'm cheating..and cheating the system.
but i digress...
i guess my main questions is..i'm currently at 0.25..starting today...should i stabilize on this..and then skip days and jump?
or is my own insanity causing w/d's that aren't really there..and should i 'surrender my will' and deal with it?

You are correct that step 3 is "We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him." That is even a MORE difficult step to complete being hypocritical. Surrender your will and suck it up using the Thomas Recipe. It will still help you with the end of your w/d, but it's totally natural supplements and you'll have nothing to feel badly about! Plus the Thomas Recipe works! Hope that helps. God bless.

[toni.s.]

Thank you soo much. quick question... could i get the supplements at GNC? I may sound ignorant..but i noticed L-tyrosine is bought at a natural food store?..don't know if that's the same lol

[Robert_325]

Thank you soo much. quick question... could i get the supplements at GNC? I may sound ignorant..but i noticed L-tyrosine is bought at a natural food store?..don't know if that's the same lol

You don't sound ignorant at all. LOL You sound like someone who wants to be clean and is willing to pay the price, you're working the steps, I have respect for you!

GNC will have everything you need including the L-Tyrosine which is great for energy. Take one 500mg cap, see how you feel. You can take more if it doesn't make you feel antsy. I took three 500 mg caps a day when I used it but not everyone needs the same thing. But everything you'll need is at a GNC store. You'll beat this ... I have all the confidence in you! Please keep me posted. God bless.

[toni.s.]

I will. I feel so much better getting that out.
I can't thank you enough for your help..
you didn't know it, but you were helping me before i posted. Your words of wisdom are appreciated by everyone.
I noticed your name being talked about before i noticed you lol. You must be very proud of yourself.
I know that's one of the biggest things I'm going to have to work on in recovery...self-worth..
And i guess I needed someone to tell me what i already knew inside. Jumping off is the only way for my own self-honesty..and therefore worth to start forming. As addicts..we're liars..and rationalizers..and i need to break the mold. and the habit. (addiction included lol)
You're very wise. Thanks again.
Not to sound like a baby..it shouldn't be tooo hard though right?

[Robert_325]

I will. I feel so much better getting that out.
I can't thank you enough for your help..
you didn't know it, but you were helping me before i posted. Your words of wisdom are appreciated by everyone.
I noticed your name being talked about before i noticed you lol. You must be very proud of yourself.
I know that's one of the biggest things I'm going to have to work on in recovery...self-worth..
And i guess I needed someone to tell me what i already knew inside. Jumping off is the only way for my own self-honesty..and therefore worth to start forming. As addicts..we're liars..and rationalizers..and i need to break the mold. and the habit. (addiction included lol)
You're very wise. Thanks again.
Not to sound like a baby..it shouldn't be tooo hard though right?

In all seriousness, this won't be "mai tais and yahtzee" but you'll ace it! LOL I have all the confidence in you. Now it's time to have that confidence in yourself and in the 12 step program. Just don't use no matter what. And remember that this is a process not an event. You'll make it I have no doubt. God bless.

[toni.s.]

i know everyone is different...and there's no way for u to know for sure ..but i'm gonna ask anyways lol..how long-ish do u think w/d's should last? i only ask b/c i have to maintain a relatively active life

i take care of my dad..it's hard to care for someone while caring for yourself..if i need assistance for a while i'll need the notice

[toni.s.]

i take care of my dad..it's hard to take care of someone while caring for yourself..if i need assitance..i'll need advance notice.
or bearable?

[Robert_325]

Follow the Thomas Recipe closely, most important remember that you're turning it all over to God in that third step. We turn over our will and our life! We have to "believe" and actually WORK these steps and they'll work for us just as HE will! God has never let me down yet. Remember though that if you pray and turn it over to HIM, then don't worry. If you worry, then don't waste your time praying or turning it over. Those actions contradict one another. You'll be fine, and your symptoms won't last over a few days and won't be anything you can't handle with faith! Just do it! God bless.

[toni.s.]

What i needed to hear.
Sounds so much better coming out of ur mouth..than in my head.
k. well. tomorrow. sounds good.
thx again!

[Kat_Carson19]

Hi Toni! I jumped off at about that dose and for me it wasn't too bad. Uncomfortable but not miserable! I'm now a little over two weeks out and I feel fantastic. For me the physical pain is easier to deal with than the mental anguish, but force yourself to get outside, get some exercise, and you'll do great! I never missed a day of work, found it was easier to keep busy. Good luck! I'll be rooting for you! And just know it's wonderful on the other side.

[Anonymous]

i take care of my dad..it's hard to take care of someone while caring for yourself..if i need assitance..i'll need advance notice.
or bearable?

i live alone. (with my animals) and when i jumped off subs, i was still working full time, i work with youth, cant pull the wool over their eyes... well i worked right thru, in fact it was good for me to be busy so i had no time to sit around feeling sorry for myself.... yes its hard, but it truly is far more bearable than a 'normal' withdrawl..
you can do this. at the stage you are at, (ok bit lower, around .25) i sat for MONTHS, too scared to jump. i got a nudge from an excellent friend, who basically told me i was delaying the inevitable and just prolonging my misery of thinkin how hard it was....
so i jumped.... made it 3 days took a TINY tiny slither.... coz i was having trouble sleeping, and that was it. that was my LAST DOSE OF SUBOXONE ever...

you dont know how great that feels.... but you will. go for it....

[toni.s.]

Thank you so much for the encouragement guys!
It's funny, cuz i sat here..'ghost-like'...and just read everyone else's threads. And yes..they helped me..somewhat.But now that I've posted..and illuminated myself and my situation..it's made it real. And it's kinda finalized for me what I guess I already knew. And the support makes it that much easier.
I really appreciate the kind words.

[toni.s.]

Thank you so much for the encouragement guys!
It's funny, cuz i sat here..'ghost-like'...and just read everyone else's threads. And yes..they helped me..somewhat.But now that I've posted..and illuminated myself and my situation..it's made it real. And it's kinda finalized for me what I guess I already knew. And the support makes it that much easier.
I really appreciate the kind words.

[toni.s.]

wow...i keep double posting.i've gotta slow it down lol

[caughtagain]

Rooting for you Toni! We are with you, so DO IT!! All my best, Reid

[toni.s.]

okay...l-tyrosine..shouldn't be taken for a couple days?
i got l-tyrosine..b6..and melatonin. how should i be doing this?

[Robert_325]

okay...l-tyrosine..shouldn't be taken for a couple days?
i got l-tyrosine..b6..and melatonin. how should i be doing this?

You can start on both supplements immediately and the L-Tyrosine is supposed to have B-6 in it so that is good. You're on your way! God bless.

[caughtagain]

Robert, I am starting a ball taper with Chloe, do you have a process for that? Thanks in advance as I am sure it will help her.

[Robert_325]

Robert, I am starting a ball taper with Chloe, do you have a process for that? Thanks in advance as I am sure it will help her.

Reid ..... I have tried to do the same with Roxie. I've found that a "ball" addiction is definitely a family disease! I find myself chasing Roxie and Bella's toys at times and I can hardly make myself stop! It has gotten even worse for Melinda! Perhaps it's worse by gender? It's a scary thing to deal with. Be careful! With just a few years clean time you could find yourself chasing balls around the yard and who knows where it could go from there? God bless.

[toni.s.]

w halmost through with day one.
AM I CRAZY? or is day one really not that bad?!
It has me wondering why i always failed to skip a day..
took my mom to the beach..walked ALOT..almost passed out i was so tired..and i'm in decent shape..so that was a little frustrating. oh well..gotta admit..it did feel great afterwards! lol
and went to a meeting. It's funny how SOMETHING..SOMEONE..says will resonate with you.
What struck me was when someone said; "I never knew why people would say you CHOOSE to be happy. They should change it to 'just do what you need to do, even if you don't want to"
how much did that match my dilemma? funny how He's there with you.
So i've decide on the 'fake it til you make it' approach. I'll keep telling myself i'm ok..as i did today..and somehow i was...and i will be. fingers crossed.

[Robert_325]

w halmost through with day one.
AM I CRAZY? or is day one really not that bad?!
It has me wondering why i always failed to skip a day..
took my mom to the beach..walked ALOT..almost passed out i was so tired..and i'm in decent shape..so that was a little frustrating. oh well..gotta admit..it did feel great afterwards! lol
and went to a meeting. It's funny how SOMETHING..SOMEONE..says will resonate with you.
What struck me was when someone said; "I never knew why people would say you CHOOSE to be happy. They should change it to 'just do what you need to do, even if you don't want to"
how much did that match my dilemma? funny how He's there with you.
So i've decide on the 'fake it til you make it' approach. I'll keep telling myself i'm ok..as i did today..and somehow i was...and i will be. fingers crossed.

Like I said, HE's never let me down yet! He's always there with you, just like you said, as long as you maintain that faith and actually DO turn it over to HIM!!!

I'm very happy that you had such a good day! Knew that you would. Stay focused and remember that the steps work if you work them! Keep us posted on your progress. God bless.

[toni.s.]

i feel like an idiot today..
i have RLS in general...so combined with withdrawals..it's not fun. but during the day, i can fight it. i walk, exercise..w/e helps. last night i did none of the above..i took a piece of a sub. half of a .25. i'm so disappointed. today i feel stupid, and weak. but last night it felt unbearable. i felt like i was crawling out of my skin...it's wierd...my skin hurt too?! i wanted to scream.
HIT ME WITH THE TRUTH-how much damage did i do?

[Robert_325]

i feel like an idiot today..
i have RLS in general...so combined with withdrawals..it's not fun. but during the day, i can fight it. i walk, exercise..w/e helps. last night i did none of the above..i took a piece of a sub. half of a .25. i'm so disappointed. today i feel stupid, and weak. but last night it felt unbearable. i felt like i was crawling out of my skin...it's wierd...my skin hurt too?! i wanted to scream.
HIT ME WITH THE TRUTH-how much damage did i do?

toni ...... addicts blow it sometimes. If it really made you feel stupid then you probably won't do it again and you'll be fine. At least you are honest and came clean about it. This is a process, not an event! It's just like working those steps is a process. So long as you don't repeat the mistake you'll be fine. Keep me posted. God bless.

[toni.s.]

thx for the encouragement.
i almost didn't post it..working on my honesty.

[Robert_325]

thx for the encouragement.
i almost didn't post it..working on my honesty.

When an addict's lips are moving they are usually lying! That is a fact! Getting honest is one of the toughest parts of recovery. Can't work those steps properly without being honest. And when I said that this is a process, not an event, well this just had to be a part of your process. Learn from it, don't look back, and move on with your recovery! God bless.

[toni.s.]

couldn't sleep much..but i'm ok. RLS getting a little more annoying.. but again i'm ok. just a little achey.
had wierd christmas dreams when i did sleep..sober dream..not using dream. that was nice. me and my boyfriend talking about how much happier we were.
woke up thinking of u robert? wierd..was wondering what the 325 stood for? LOL
because i took a little piece the night before last, i dono if today is day one or two. guess i'll just go on how i feel day by day.
actually had MORE of an apetite yesterday. woke up starving too. been up since 3 tho so hmm.been losing weight lately so extra food is welcomed.
i dono..until i have more positive things to say, i feel like i don't have much to say at all. In time.