[sisterwin2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

sisterwin2 ... sounds like you have this down good to me. You are describing taking sub exactly correct. No way I would pay that much to go back to that dr. You have lots of meds. Are you using a single edged razor to cut the pills??? You can make a really small cut with a razor. If you go too small the piece will turn to powder, but you can cut down to .5mg or even to .25mg if you are careful. That will be as far down as you will ever need to go.

Great..... I have been using a pill cutter... but will get a razor. Ty TY TY sooooooooo much for everything.

[sisterwin2]

It seems like I remember when in my early 20's I went thru rehab and when I got out they put me on a drug that worked like Narcan. You took it once a day and it would connect to the mu receptors. I just cant remember the name of that drug. I know I am getting ahead of myself but would like to know that there is a cushion for when I do wean off the sub. Does anyone know what drug I am talking about??

Hope eveyone is still clean today.....hope all in WD can see the end of it soon.

God Bless.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by sisterwin2

It seems like I remember when in my early 20's I went thru rehab and when I got out they put me on a drug that worked like Narcan. You took it once a day and it would connect to the mu receptors. I just cant remember the name of that drug. I know I am getting ahead of myself but would like to know that there is a cushion for when I do wean off the sub. Does anyone know what drug I am talking about??


Hope eveyone is still clean today.....hope all in WD can see the end of it soon.

God Bless.

I remembered there was a drug in the early 90s that didn't get used that much. It was FDA approved and all ... LAAM. It is discussed in the following link. Talks about it being FDA approved in 1993. Methadone was really the only other approved option as far as opiate replacement therapy goes until buprenorphine came along that I know.

The following link is from 2000. It talks about buprenorphine as a new method and medication for addiction treatment. It hadn't been approved. Talks about both subutex and suboxone. It also mentions the drug from the early 90s. I really couldn't remember anything specific about it. I never wanted to detox then.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pu.../enclosure.htm


Hope that helps. I can't recall any other agonists like buprenorphine or other meds besides clonidine, librium and the regular detox standards that have been used in years past.

[sisterwin2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I remembered there was a drug in the early 90s that didn't get used that much. It was FDA approved and all ... LAAM. It is discussed in the following link. Talks about it being FDA approved in 1993. Methadone was really the only other approved option as far as opiate replacement therapy goes until buprenorphine came along that I know.

The following link is from 2000. It talks about buprenorphine as a new method and medication for addiction treatment. It hadn't been approved. Talks about both subutex and suboxone. It also mentions the drug from the early 90s. I really couldn't remember anything specific about it. I never wanted to detox then.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pu.../enclosure.htm


Hope that helps. I can't recall any other agonists like buprenorphine or other meds besides clonidine, librium and the regular detox standards that have been used in years past.

I read that site... that is not it. It was like Anabuse for etoh, but it was for narcotic. Darn... what drug abuse does to the ole memory.

But thanks sweetie. I am going on a over night sailing trip and will not be posting for the next two days. I will be clean and hopefully done with some of these sweats.. heheheh maybe. Rob... I think I am falling in love with you. YOur wonderfull and I want everything for you that u want or need. Again, Thank you so much for your time and devotion to this forum. Your are truely God sent.

Sister,

Everyone hang on for just one more hour, day and week.

[sisterwin2]

I just read thru my post and pretty happy how things have progressed. I am now down to 12 and very stable. I still have the sweats alot but not near as intense and less frequent.... still only sleep well about every other night but feel pretty rested. Its strange but I do get the chills sometimes... I will get goose bump sometimes just down one leg.. I do remember the goose bumps from previous ct wd's. Nothing to whine about.. just a bit irratating.
I consider my self pretty stable now... clean from narc's that get you high now for 3 weeks and one day. Tomorrow I go to 8 mg's for a few days. So, then I will be on a normal dose. I just maybe off the sub in the next three weeks. Right on time for such a rough start, eh? I cant complain. hehehehe, I just about had a panic attack earlier today.. All self induced about how this wean will be. Silly me. I just wanted to post to all how greatfull I am for all your comments and support. It is looking like I am going to be a success story for Suboxone.
I did find out that I cant have etoh with the suboxone. I went sailing for an overnight with a friend and at sunset had a beer. I am not a big drinker but like beer with Crabs and we did catch a dozen of crabs. I steamed them and we had a sundown happy hour. Well, by my second beer I had to go down below and take a 30 min power nap. I began slurring my words, losing thought in mid sentence,,, I was drunk. I know if I had a third beer I would of been Knee walking drunk. I use to be able to drink 6 beers thru out a sailing day without a problem and doing Dope. I would get tipsy but not drunk. Wont do that again. I guess it will have to be near-beer with crabs the rest of the season.
Hope everyone is doing ok or better yet, well.
Sister.

[sisterwin2]

THIS IS MY SECOND DAY ON 8MG OF SUB. NORMALY IF THE DROP WAS TO MUCH FOR ME I WOULD BE FEELING IT BY NOW.. AND I AM NOT .......... SO COOL.
I am actuall sleepy and going to bed. I will not even be able to stay up and watch weed.

So. I will stay here untill thursday and then drop to 4 mg..... way too cool,

[leadam123]

I agree. I think that is way too much sub. You know how 2mg is 2/0.5, I believe 8mg is 8mg/2mg. The 0.5 and 2mg is the Naloxone in the Sub. So she is probably getting 150 8mg/2mg Naloxone. I could never afford to buy 150 pills. Damn, my doc prescribed me 6 2mg and cost me over 30 bucks. I switched to methadone program through my doc. The sub worked good but is way too expensive. It also gave me terrible headaches when I awoke. That was the only side effect besides the bad taste of it sublingually. Just putting my opinion in. I don't know how anyone could affort 150 sub tabs, that would be like a thousand dollars or more right. Plus the office visits, to hell with that. Methadone cost like 10 bucks for 30 tabs.

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Sister ...

I really don't care for the way the dr has treated you. We can talk about that next reply.

It sounds like you are taking a lot of suboxone to me but honestly I am kind of confused. Maybe it's me but what do you mean by getting a script for 150 8-2 suboxone??? I just don't understand how much you mean by the way you have written it. Are you taking 5 8mg pills a day? That would be 150 pills for a month. Please let me know that and then I will answer all your questions.

You can get all this mess with the suboxone straight I promise you. It should work great for you as it has for lots of us. I used opiates for decades like you and it helped to save me. I will look for your reply. Then I will address each of your questions.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by sisterwin2

THIS IS MY SECOND DAY ON 8MG OF SUB. NORMALY IF THE DROP WAS TO MUCH FOR ME I WOULD BE FEELING IT BY NOW.. AND I AM NOT .......... SO COOL.
I am actuall sleepy and going to bed. I will not even be able to stay up and watch weed.

So. I will stay here untill thursday and then drop to 4 mg..... way too cool,

Just remember the half life. Two days is good, but you can make it for two days with no symptoms easily and still have it hit you on the third. That is why we hold for 4 days or so before tapering again. You are really doing well. Congratulations. I bet by Thursday you will be ready to taper again.

Once you get down below 8mg you will start changing the amount you reduce by. You have to look at the % of the entire dose you are reducing by. If you are at 24mg and reduce by 8mg, you are still at 16mg. That was a 33% reduction. If you are at 4mg and drop by 33% you are only reducing by 1-2mg. 8mg will be the last dose you will be able to reduce this by 2mg or more at a time.

[leadam123]

Just out of curiosity, how much did the 150 suboxone pills cost you. I know that no prescription drug coverage covers it at all. I checked into that extensively. Let me know what it cost if you don't mind. I paid 37 bucks for 6 pills. I could not imagine buying 150.

[Robert_325]

Subutex/suboxone 8mg pills are between $6-$8 across the nation. Not a lot of difference in price.

[leadam123]

I'll take them off your hands, LOL. What about taking Klonopin with Methadone. I see the talk of other benzos with Suboxone but what about this combo. Any thoughts.
Leadam123@hotmail.com

[leadam123]

So 6-8 bucks per pill? That is totally crazy. There are so many addicts out there needing help and no one willing to help them. It seems that the suboxone is the best way to recover from an addiction. It should be covered by insurance and it should not be so closely controlled by the FDA, DEA and all the other bull ********************. There needs to be something done about this nationwide suboxone problem. The need to speed up the patent expiration date so that there is generic. Know of any insurance companies that cover it???

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Subutex/suboxone 8mg pills are between $6-$8 across the nation. Not a lot of difference in price.

[Robert_325]

Lots of insurance companies cover buprenorphine. If you have an HMO the primary care dr has to okay it normally, if you have a PPO then you shouldn't have any problems at all. The only way it is not covered is if the claim filing process isn't followed correctly or if the particular insurance company treats addiction as a mental illness and the coverage is limited for mental illness. This normally only happens with individual rather than large group policies. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule. There are some garbage insurance policies out there for sale.

Klonopin and methadone together can cause respiratory problems. You can check any drug interactions at the drug interaction checker at the top of this page. Need to really watch mixing benzos and methadone.

[bev49]

My insurance company covers it. The copay if $40 for a month's supply. I have a PPO called GHI (General Health Insurance) out of NY. Most doctor's who perscxribe it don't take insurance though, unfortunately. I couldn't possible be on it if I had to pay full price. Who really can?

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by bev49

My insurance company covers it. The copay if $40 for a month's supply. I have a PPO called GHI (General Health Insurance) out of NY. Most doctor's who perscxribe it don't take insurance though, unfortunately. I couldn't possible be on it if I had to pay full price. Who really can?

My insurance is United Healthcare. They also cover this treatment if we go through our primary care drs initially. Lots of people don't take that step first and they don't get paid. Most major companies will accept the costs for buprenorphine treatment if the claim is handled properly. Our primary care drs have to refer us to treatment. Then we will get paid. We have to get a referral for most specialists. That does include finding a dr that doesn't charge $500. No insurance company is going to pay for institutionalized thievery.

I have been in the insurance/financial services industry since the 70s. I know how this process works. So many claims don't get paid because policyholders don't go through the proper filing process to get things done. We have to follow the established claim filing procedures to get anything paid by law.

I don't understand the reasoning of, "I can't afford the cost of this treatment. It costs cash for the dr and then the high cost of the meds." I know I am not the only person who threw away over $100 a day getting high. NO treatment costs as much as staying screwed up all the time. We begin to "weigh" the expense of our treatment but we don't even consider how much money and how much of our life we are pi$$ing off by using. Insurance doesn't pay for our habits. Almost any of us can do this if we really want to.

[bev49]

My insurance is a PPO and there is no primary physician. You go to any doctor or specialist you want to. There are a host of doctors who accept GHI but not for suboxone. I understanding what you are saying though. It had not occurred to me that even if they don't accept insurance, I can still submit a claim myself and get back a percentage of what the company deems "acceptable" which would be less than 50%. Of course, it is doable and I would do it no matter the cost. Addiction specialists and methadone programs always use the "you spent it on drugs, you can spend it for this" line. It is true. However, alot of people did alot of very ugly things for drug money that they would not be willing to do anymore. Of course it is necessary to find the money for treatment and most important. I was really just addressing the fact that alot of doctors are greedy and not all the ethical when it comes to drug treatment. They know you have no choice and take advantage of the fact.

[Robert_325]

You are right and I was only speaking in generalities. We definitely do stupid and ugly things to ourselves and others in order to get what we need in our active addiction. I realize that does account for lots of the required funds to maintain our addiction for lots of us.

I guess I was fortunate in that I always made more than enough money to finance my habit and the habit of most of those around me. I didn't have to compromise myself beyond the dangers of what I was doing to myself.

I just see all too often that lots of us aren't willing to go the extra mile to get clean like we were to get high. I don't mean that towards anyone in particular. I was guilty of the same thing for decades so my comments were not directed towards anyone in particular except maybe myself.

You are correct that lots of the sub drs take advantage of our situation. Until we get more of the quality drs involved in this treatment we will likely have to continue dealing with this. There aren't enough of the good drs involved in suboxone therapy ... they don't need us in their practices to prosper. Lots of the quality drs don't even take new patients. It will take some time before we are treated like we deserve to be.

[sisterwin2]

Of course my Quack of doc would not except insurance for my tx but my insurance did end up paying for the RX. The first script that I got filled I was so sick that I didnt even think of useing my insurance. When I went to get the 150 pills filled I took my insurace card, they reinbursted me for the prior fill at 180 bucks. I was very relieved. I wanted to get clean so bad that I would of and did cash stock to pay for the second script. (unnessess). So, now I have 4,000 cash in my account. When I am clean for one month, I mean also off the sub, I am going to treat myself to a 50 inch LCD tv for my bedroom.

Today is day three on 8 mg. and as of this moment doing wonderfull. I also notice that the sweats are really starting to subside a little. I am extremely tired and will have to take a power nap in a few mins. but I am not complaining. I have gone the last 3 weeks on very little sleep and I guess now it is catching up with me. I have a very good appitite now and beginning to put on some weight, finally.
As far as my little excerbation due to MS... I do believe that the short run of Predisone did the trick. My vision is normal and the spasms are very minimal. I do have back pain and siactic pain.....I can deal.

So.... I will remain on 8 mg tomorrow and on thrusday I will drop to either 4 or 6 mg. Was wondering what you all thought it should be?

Bless you all and stay clean,
Sister

[sisterwin2]

Originally Posted by leadam123

Just out of curiosity, how much did the 150 suboxone pills cost you. I know that no prescription drug coverage covers it at all. I checked into that extensively. Let me know what it cost if you don't mind. I paid 37 bucks for 6 pills. I could not imagine buying 150.

Without my insureance card each pill is 5 bucks. I am one that did pay more then 100 per day for my dope.... so I really did not care what it cost me. I did luck out and my insurance card covered all but 175 bucks of the 150 pills. With out it, I would of put out 750 that I was prepare to do... drop in a bucket what I put out on a "good weekend" of doping. The 150 pills was suppose to last one month according to my quack. Well worth it to me.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by sisterwin2

Of course my Quack of doc would not except insurance for my tx but my insurance did end up paying for the RX. The first script that I got filled I was so sick that I didnt even think of useing my insurance. When I went to get the 150 pills filled I took my insurace card, they reinbursted me for the prior fill at 180 bucks. I was very relieved. I wanted to get clean so bad that I would of and did cash stock to pay for the second script. (unnessess). So, now I have 4,000 cash in my account. When I am clean for one month, I mean also off the sub, I am going to treat myself to a 50 inch LCD tv for my bedroom.

Today is day three on 8 mg. and as of this moment doing wonderfull. I also notice that the sweats are really starting to subside a little. I am extremely tired and will have to take a power nap in a few mins. but I am not complaining. I have gone the last 3 weeks on very little sleep and I guess now it is catching up with me. I have a very good appitite now and beginning to put on some weight, finally.
As far as my little excerbation due to MS... I do believe that the short run of Predisone did the trick. My vision is normal and the spasms are very minimal. I do have back pain and siactic pain.....I can deal.

So.... I will remain on 8 mg tomorrow and on thrusday I will drop to either 4 or 6 mg. Was wondering what you all thought it should be?

Bless you all and stay clean,
Sister

I would try 4mg first since you are doing so well but if you have a problem dropping by that much then jump back up to 6mg. It starts getting a little slower at this point. You will be reducing by 1mg at the most from this point forward if you do well at 4mg. You can go faster, but I wouldn't push it. You are doing so well. Just keep it like that if you can. Lets see how you do with this reduction. Whether you drop to 4mg or 6mg, split your dose so that you are taking half in the morning and half in the late afternoon. You will start eliminating doses at the next taper and it will be easier if you are doing two doses. I know you have been doing that, just wanted to emphasize it again.

In four days you should be ready to drop 2mg if you go to six, 1mg if you go to four. DON'T rush it though. Nothing wrong with stretching yourself like trying the 4mg Thursday. Just don't mess this up by pushing too hard at this point. This is the most critical time of your detox. And the new TV as a reward sounds great! I recommend that for everyone. Congratulations!

[sisterwin2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I would try 4mg first since you are doing so well but if you have a problem dropping by that much then jump back up to 6mg. It starts getting a little slower at this point. You will be reducing by 1mg at the most from this point forward if you do well at 4mg. You can go faster, but I wouldn't push it. You are doing so well. Just keep it like that if you can. Lets see how you do with this reduction. Whether you drop to 4mg or 6mg, split your dose so that you are taking half in the morning and half in the late afternoon. You will start eliminating doses at the next taper and it will be easier if you are doing two doses. I know you have been doing that, just wanted to emphasize it again.

In four days you should be ready to drop 2mg if you go to six, 1mg if you go to four. DON'T rush it though. Nothing wrong with stretching yourself like trying the 4mg Thursday. Just don't mess this up by pushing too hard at this point. This is the most critical time of your detox. And the new TV as a reward sounds great! I recommend that for everyone. Congratulations!

Yes sir...... I will do just that. Again, thank you Rob. You have been invaluable to me in this whole process. When I think of how close I came to killing myself it freaks me out. I will do exactely as you say. I should give you the $$ that I gave the quack. I will not have to go back to him since I have prob. about 100 of the Rx he wrote for me. Though, I do think about going just for teaching purposes. I am sure he will be upset that he is not going to linger me on for the next yr for the easy money.

I will keep you posted on how things go...... I want all to know just how it works for a junkie like me.

Bless you,
Sister.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by sisterwin2

Yes sir...... I will do just that. Again, thank you Rob. You have been invaluable to me in this whole process. When I think of how close I came to killing myself it freaks me out. I will do exactely as you say. I should give you the $$ that I gave the quack. I will not have to go back to him since I have prob. about 100 of the Rx he wrote for me. Though, I do think about going just for teaching purposes. I am sure he will be upset that he is not going to linger me on for the next yr for the easy money.

I will keep you posted on how things go...... I want all to know just how it works for a junkie like me.

Bless you,
Sister.

No need to give me the money, just stay clean. That is my prize. It's really funny that you still have over 100 pills from your script. Shows how confused these drs are. I really don't like to question drs as I am not qualified to do that. But these guys break all the rules for doctors themselves. I have no mercy for bottom feeders like some of these scumbags are.

[bev49]

Wow! Congratulations sister.. I remember your first posts and the crazy wacky dosing you were on. Boy, have you come a long way from then to now. Thank God for Robert, huh?? I pray I can be as successful at this as you seem to be... We will see...

[sisterwin2]

Originally Posted by bev49

Wow! Congratulations sister.. I remember your first posts and the crazy wacky dosing you were on. Boy, have you come a long way from then to now. Thank God for Robert, huh?? I pray I can be as successful at this as you seem to be... We will see...

Honey...... you already are my secret hero next to Rob. I have learned alot from you post. I have all the faith that you will be succussful.. I am a bit worried about your depression though. I pray for you (and a few others from here) every day. We actually have alot in common except you got your sh% together long before I did. I guess we all will at our own pace.
Sister.

[sisterwin2]

Hey all,

First let me tell you what happen a week ago and I just realize that I didnt act like the junkie I am.

I was working on the wood of the boat with a heat gun and burn my hand down to the bone. Because of my MS I didnt realize it. I awaken the next day with my dog licking at my hand, she never does that... she is very well trained and I hate to be licked. After I push her away for the last time I got up to see what was up and I realize that my hand was in nasty shape. I went to the doctor (my prim.) to have it looked at. I began antibotics immed... hoping to forgo osteomyolites.
Not once did I even think about taking pain meds for it, One month ago I would have gotton free Dope... or RX dope at least and taken advantage of it. GLORY TO GOD!

This morning I woke up from a wonderful sleep sneezing with volence. I had what felt like a swollen area behind my throat\nose that was very sensative. I could not swollow w/out a sneeze or three. It brough back ct wd memories. I do remember this symptom lasting for days. This is my 4th day at 8 mg. I did sleep in for a change and on the norm I am takeing my first dose of sub by 5 am. I put 1/2 of the pill in my mouth by 8am and w/in 20 min that swelling went down.

I do believe my mind is playing tricks with me and not wanting those mu receptor to be lonely. hehehehe ....... I won. I am still on schedule to go to 4 mg tomorrow with the knowledge I can take a sliver if ness. The halve life thingy is not going to hold me back. My sweats have really subsided alot in the last 24 hours. I did not wake up once due to sweating last night... I can tell it was better because my pillow was dry and where I was lying did not have my body shape painted on it. Another good day coming.

I love not pill counting, needle searching, liquid measures (meth) and wondering where I am going to get next day or weeks dope. I can pass a urine test I believe ... that is a first for the last 4 yrs. Life is Good.

I am suppose to see my quack on the 11th.... I am still thinking about going to speak to him about his doseing so high... Maybe have a print out of the Suboxone site "how too" for MD's. I did get a e-mail back from the sub site about my complaint on the quack. Basically said that they do not give advice on how to dose...blah blah blah... not interested in teaching him or informing him of complaint. So.. so much for reporting him. To report him to the Board, there would have to be a "negative outcome" before they would act. Like my dying from it. I do wish I could do something. He is in a neighborhood that really could use his help. I dont know why I keep calling him the quack. His name is Percy Baily MD. DO NOT USE HIM. Any advice on what I could/should do or how to approach him I would gladly listen too and take under advisement.

Hope all are doing well,
Sister

[bonitagale]

I think at this point you may consider slowing down.

You have been very mistreated. You have done very well getting to the dose that your on now. Eight mg from 40 is wonderful. I do want to warn you that your symptoms this morning was withdrawl. Since you were on such a high dose for 10 days your taper needs to be more gentle.

You have already shown signs of w/d when droping too large a dose. Some people's metabalism is faster then others. The half life is generally about 35 hours but that is not written in stone. It sounds like you breakdown Medication faster then the "norm" for lack of a better way to word it.

I would suggest that you drop from 8mg to 6mgs. I do believe the profuse sweating you have experience is part of the high dose and part of the Methadone withdrawl. It sounds like you were on about 70mg of Methadone and abusing other narcotics? I also believe you should of been on subutex, but you physican is trying to protect hisself at your expense.

Having MS, you must protect yorself from excerbation. Does your prescribing MD know you have MS? If not, he should. It dosnt sound like he is involved in your dosing at all, is he?

The burn you received sounds serious and that will add stress to your body also, as I am sure you know. It is important that you wean in an approp. time but another two weeks with a steady decline in dose will not effect your recovery.

I just wanted to add my two cents here. I do wish you all the luck.... though it seems you are not counting on luck but being very diligent in your efforts.

Remember, that you must pay attention to your symptoms, type of pain, blood pressure and general over-all activity tolerance. If you tolerance drops too quickly, then your dose is being taper too quickly.

May God be with you,
Bonita

[Robert_325]

There is nothing wrong with being a little aggressive at this point with this detox. That is how sister got to 8mg from where she was. She can take a little sliver if any w/ds become too much. They will be gone immediately. We already discussed this taper and sister was advised that if she had any adverse symptoms from dropping to 4mg to up it back to 6mg. I really don't think it's prudent on your part to jump in the middle of a detox at this point and start telling someone who is doing so well to change their plan now. If you had read the entire detox history you would see that she has been told repeatedly to take a little more if the w/d symptoms show themself. Sister is simply pushing herself a little. I have read your other posts and your advice is okay for the most part. Just please refrain from trying to throw a wrench in the middle of things for someone who is doing so well in comparison to a couple weeks ago. We all realize that people metabolize drugs differently. We also realize her dr was an idiot for the way he prescribed this medication. And sister is a nurse so she realizes that she needs to keep up with her vitals thank you. Everything is going along just fine here. God bless.

[bev49]

Sister, thank you for your kind message. I don't feel like anyone's hero but it's nice to hear anyway Listen to what Bonita says. Don't get too cocky. Like me, you have other health issues that probably make it more difficult to stay clean. Don't be in too big a rush. Be good to yourself and take your time. After all the years you've been drugging, whats a few more days or weeks?

[sisterwin2]

I had a wonderfull sleep again last night...I am dreaming again and loving it. I have not had to use a alarm clock in yrs. and this morning I over slept. Without thought, being in a rush I took the full 4 mg at once. No big deal.. I will get back on splitting it again tomorrow.

Bonita, I thank you for your post but Rob is right. I am doing very well. I do realize the burn is putting some stress on my body.. I can feel it. I am taking antibotics as Rx and it is slowly healing. I go back for follow up and possible debridement tomorrow, insure the bone is ok, lab work. No fevers and very little swelling at the site. Now, it actually hurts, so its healing.

I have been dealing with the MS for 8 yrs so I am pretty intune to my symptoms. The pain I get is normally in lower extremties/hands and mainly pins, needles and weakness.. I also have a leision on my thalamus/left eye. I have been very lucky.

Let me tell you.... this wd is nothing to what I have done to myself drugging. I do hear your concerns and have thought about them all ready. In the beginning of this process I almost gave up thinking It was not worth it..... now on lower dose I see myself getting clean and staying clean. Feel guilty that I have not had to suffer more.

I will take a sliver or just 1mg if I began that blasted sneezing and running eyes/nose. So far today I am find. I am actually having normal hot flashes instead of 10 mins of pouring sweat. I am a bit tired for so early in the day but a short power nap when I got off work made me feel better.

Rob.... all is well. Looks like this will work, so far, but just first day. We will see tomorrow night or next morning how I feel. I have cut up one pill in what looks like 1 mg pieces, close anyway. I will just skip taking anything tonight since I blew it and took all 4mg this am. I was wondering though... if I do get that swelling in the back of my throat/nose, do you think a bendryl may help.. I hate to increase my dose for just that? If I had two symptoms like the running nose and eyes, chill/sweat then I can see raising my dose by 2 mg.

What do you think?

Again... thank everyone for being here, all of you are life savers.

Bev... how you be?

Sister.

[Robert_325]

I agree with you totally. I would not take any subs just because of the throat. I am not even sure that would be something that suboxone would help anyway. You know the benedryl won't hurt you. It makes much more sense to take that for your problem with the throat. It might even help you rest a little better too. I say do it.