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Need someone to talk with about subs
  1. #1
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Default Need someone to talk with about subs

    I have been on subs for 24 days. I started at 24 and have been reducing according to Robert’s plan for the most part. I will go down to 1.5 tomorrow (I am rounding down when necessary because I don’t think I could get to 1.69). I plan on staying at each reduction for three days (baring any real difficulty). I will then jump without rotating days when I reach 1 or .5. My question is if I should be prepared for long w/d’s? I am expected about one week, is that wrong? Also, I am wondering if I should be prepared for the depression/anxiety that I keep reading about. Can I really expect that after only having been on these for one month? I know all of this depends on many factors. I guess I am just wondering if anybody knows of people that have suffered the anxiety and depression for a long time after having only used the subs a short time. I would really like to hear any suggestions. It is also stressful that Robert isn’t around anymore. I am glad for him; he should be putting his life first. He deserves it! But, I am stressed that I won’t know what to do if I put myself in a tailspin. By the way, I am reducing a bit faster (three days instead of four and jumping without rotating days because I have a one week break coming up before I start a new job). I can’t be in major w/d’s when I start and I have to pass a drug test. Therefore, I have to speed the process up somewhere. Also, any idea how much difference jumping at 1 versus .5 really makes. It doesn’t seem like it should make any. I am baffled why the w/d’s are so bad when someone jumps from 1. Is this really true from someone that has been on them so little? Any input?

  2. #2
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    I wish you the very best and wanted to say a few things to you. First Robert will still be around as he said. he will just not be here as much as he was before is all.

    And there are several others to pick up the slack and offer you sound advice in his absence if needed. Also I would really hate to see you "jump" at .5mg, and ESPECIALLY 1mg! That is most likely going to present you with many harsh issues.

    You say it is because of your time commitments, but if you jump from those HIGH doses, you may be in for more problems that if you finished the subs up with a more well suited plan. And that would be to reduce even further and then do the day-skipping process.

    This is only my humble opinion and hopefully Robert or someone else will give you more info on what you want to do. I certainly hope so. I just would hate to see you get to the point where you rush the "end game" and could have made it much better for yourself. I just really care is all.

    Think it over real carefully and then get more opinions on the matter. Anyway I wish you the absolute best whichever way you decide to go!

    Lotsa Love,
    Karen

  3. #3
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    About those withdrawals.....I have read here that because of the very long half life of the subs, the withdrawals may not even BEGIN for many days, or even a week or longer! Not trying to frighten you at all my friend. Only relaying the info I have read here as I said.

    So that is why the day-skipping is so important! It prepares you for the day when you are finally finished taking doses, and also allows for the half life to catch up with itself according to Robert!

    You have worked so hard to get where you are right now, I would just be so sorry to see you have difficulties at the end. But I will FULLY SUPPORT any decision that you make for yourself!

    Karen

  4. #4
    caughtagain is offline Diamond Member
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    I would jump at the lowest amount you can.... 1 is too high as is .5.. Also, be careful because the 1/2 life of this class of opiates is very long... Not sure you would pass your drug test in a week.

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    pgcc is offline Member
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    Did you taper from 24mgs as you wrote or was it 2.4 and you made a mistake? Because if you were at 24mgs thats awesome you did great to get where you are! Why rush it now, finish it up right why take a shortcut that may hurt you in the end?

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    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Karen,
    I am also rushing because taking subs is too much like using to me. I had my mind so committed to not take pills, not at all no matter how much pain I was in. Now, I am in another kind of hell with these subs. I have a constant headache, stomach ache, depressed, major, major anxiety. My mind won’t let me meditate. Meditation is my savor (behind Christ). I can’t exercise … no energy and sick. Before the doc put me on subs I was doing great. Most everything was in control with meditation, exercise, etc. Now, on subs I haven’t been able to do any of this. I finally took some meds yesterday. It was a bad decision, I know. I really, really don’t want to do that again. I want off the subs so I can move on. I feel like I will take medication again if on these subs longer. Now, I fear I will have consequences for taking pills yesterday. Any ideas there??
    Enough about me, last I knew you were rotating days. Is that where you are now or are you all the way clean? You have been so awesome. I would give anything to have as positive of attitude as you do. It is great “talking” to you though. It helps keep me upbeat and committed. All my best, You are awesome Karen.
    E.M.

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    pgcc is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by caughtagain View Post
    I would jump at the lowest amount you can.... 1 is too high as is .5.. Also, be careful because the 1/2 life of this class of opiates is very long... Not sure you would pass your drug test in a week.
    I was under the impression that suboxone does not show up on a routine drug screen??

  8. #8
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    I was inducted at 24 mg twenty days ago and have been following Robert's plan for the most part.

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    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    I was inducted at 24 mg twenty days ago and have been following Robert's plan for the most part.
    Arg, 24 mg 24 days ago.

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    pgcc is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    I was inducted at 24 mg twenty days ago and have been following Robert's plan for the most part.
    I really don't have experience tapering suboxone but I've tapered just about everything else with good results in the past. Maybe because you were on so high a dose you just tapered too fast and thats why you are feeling bad. Just a thought, if this is true maybe you are correct in just getting it over with.

  11. #11
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    Karen,
    I am also rushing because taking subs is too much like using to me. I had my mind so committed to not take pills, not at all no matter how much pain I was in. Now, I am in another kind of hell with these subs. I have a constant headache, stomach ache, depressed, major, major anxiety. My mind won’t let me meditate. Meditation is my savor (behind Christ). I can’t exercise … no energy and sick. Before the doc put me on subs I was doing great. Most everything was in control with meditation, exercise, etc. Now, on subs I haven’t been able to do any of this. I finally took some meds yesterday. It was a bad decision, I know. I really, really don’t want to do that again. I want off the subs so I can move on. I feel like I will take medication again if on these subs longer. Now, I fear I will have consequences for taking pills yesterday. Any ideas there??
    Enough about me, last I knew you were rotating days. Is that where you are now or are you all the way clean? You have been so awesome. I would give anything to have as positive of attitude as you do. It is great “talking” to you though. It helps keep me upbeat and committed. All my best, You are awesome Karen.
    E.M.
    Thanks for the very kind words my friend! When you say you took "pills" yesterday, do you mean the narcotic type? If so from the little I know about subs you should have not felt anything when you took them. So a wasted effort maybe? The subs will block the receptors as they are designed to do. I believe I am correct in that. Others will speak up if I am wrong.

    And I guess it's also possible that if you go from taking subs, to taking "pain pills" and then back to subs again, you may risk putting yourself into precipitated withdrawals and from what I read here, you don't want that to happen at all! Nasty, nasty symptoms they report here! So PLEASE be careful!

    As for me I am on a dose of .25mg right now. Tomorrow will be my last day on that dose and then I will be "rotating" as you say, or skipping days as it's called here. Dose and skip 1,2,3, and 4 days and I'm finished! So a little ways to go to get clean, but a lifetime to go to STAY clean!

    Lotsa Love,
    Karen
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  12. #12
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Has anyone experienced severe night sweats while tapering? Is that normal. I have to change my sheets every day because they are soaked!

  13. #13
    caughtagain is offline Diamond Member
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    when tapering, the simple answer is yes... Sweats are not uncommon.. all my best... Also after looking into it, unless they are testing for Bup you should be ok.

  14. #14
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    You are tapering way too fast that is why you are having so many symptoms. If you want off of these soon, you are going to have to put up with it or go with Robert's taper: every 4 days .25%, you need to stabilize before you drop to the next level. The w/d as you go is just something you're going to have to put up with. As far as jumping from 1 mg. or .5, you are still jumping at a high level and yes you will go through w/d, from that. Do not take the percs. those are what you wanted off of in the first place. Right now you sound like you want someone to tell you something that won't happen. You are not going to be comfortable at the pace you are tapering. If you jump at .5 or 1 you will go through w/d. What do you want to do? Do you want to taper slower? Are you already following Robert's taper? (I know from your other thread that you had a limited supply of sub and that Robert told you that the taper would be bumpy). Follow what CA and Karen say above. I really, really wish you the best of luck. Keep posting.

    Peace

    Iloerose

  15. #15
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by caughtagain View Post
    when tapering, the simple answer is yes... Sweats are not uncommon.. all my best... Also after looking into it, unless they are testing for Bup you should be ok.
    It is a standard 7 panel test. I really don't know if that test for bup. I hope not! Thank you for the info.

  16. #16
    pgcc is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    It is a standard 7 panel test. I really don't know if that test for bup. I hope not! Thank you for the info.
    it shouldnt show up on such a drug screen

  17. #17
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    You are tapering way too fast that is why you are having so many symptoms. If you want off of these soon, you are going to have to put up with it or go with Robert's taper: every 4 days .25%, you need to stabilize before you drop to the next level. The w/d as you go is just something you're going to have to put up with. As far as jumping from 1 mg. or .5, you are still jumping at a high level and yes you will go through w/d, from that. Do not take the percs. those are what you wanted off of in the first place. Right now you sound like you want someone to tell you something that won't happen. You are not going to be comfortable at the pace you are tapering. If you jump at .5 or 1 you will go through w/d. What do you want to do? Do you want to taper slower? Are you already following Robert's taper? (I know from your other thread that you had a limited supply of sub and that Robert told you that the taper would be bumpy). Follow what CA and Karen say above. I really, really wish you the best of luck. Keep posting.

    Peace

    Iloerose
    I have followed Robert’s taper so far with one exception (that was a mistake). I have been feeling better the lower I go actually. I was hoping that I could speed it up without consequences because I had been on them for a short time. It doesn’t sound like it. I was hoping for a different answer, yes. I screwed up taking the percs and soma. It was a one-time deal and the last. It did help with the head ache and I finally got some sleep but that is NOT the direction I am going. I WILL be clean.
    Here is my question now. With what Karen said, will I have w/d symptoms from what I took yesterday? I have still been taking the subs according to Robert’s plan. I guess I will continue to follow it down to .5, rotate accordingly then jump. I will be at a new job by then. I really don’t want to lose this one. However, it sounds like I will still have w/d’s for at least a week even if I follow the plan? Right?? What about depression and anxiety for a month plus as others have??? I had really bad depression in the past, so that scares me. I just want to know what I am in for now? I really appreciate the input. It sounds like many people post these questions at this point ... because of fear and the need for control I guess. I am just suprised at how sick people get even when they follow the plan (e.g. kristen ?).

  18. #18
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Good job Karen, you are awesome!

  19. #19
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    The town I live in is to small, too mitotero, and too judgemental. I can't go to NA here. If I did, it would be all around town by the next.morning. I would never get another job. All the jobs here require clearances where you can't use drugs or have used drugs. It is ironic because there are so many people using!! Does anyone know of an on-line NA? I have no support and really need some.

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    soscrewed is offline Member
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    I really want to stay clean, but if I can't ... how do you get rid of the will to just die? I am not saying I am suicidal. But, I am saying I know I will die using because of how many pills I take and what ends up happending ... laying on the floor for 48 hours comotose. How do you talk yourself down before taking those pills.

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    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Please give me some advice. I have 60 pills, percs, opana, soma, benzos, etc. I have taken a shower, I have looked at my sub log, I have written down reasons not to do so ,etc. just seems so overwhelmingly right to take them to correct the mistake I feel I am.

  22. #22
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    see here is one of the problems. nobody here, nobody there. pills always here.

  23. #23
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    sleep at last again ; although the kid alwants want to go into the lake , pool, etc --- don't think I am thinkng straight today , mabe tomorrowl

  24. #24
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    see here is one of the problems. nobody here, nobody there. pills always here.
    Please be patient as it is a Holiday week and people are busy with different things. I am not qualified to answer your question, but I do care very much about you my friend. You should know that by now! Please try to relax and wait for the answers you need to continue to get yourself better. Blessings.

    Lotsa Love,
    Karen

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    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Anyone know if I can expect precipitated w/'d's/? I am still taking subs as schedied? appeciate tresponseeeeees.

  26. #26
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    Anyone know if I can expect precipitated w/'d's/? I am still taking subs as schedied? appeciate tresponseeeeees.
    All I can tell you is to reduce your dose by 25% every 4 days or so until you get down to the smallest dose you can. And then skip days and that is it! Do it once, but do it RIGHT the first time! You can do it.

    Hugs,
    Karen
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  27. #27
    Comeback Kid is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    Anyone know if I can expect precipitated w/'d's/? I am still taking subs as schedied? appeciate tresponseeeeees.
    wow! did you fall on your keyboard?
    Hi my name is Adam, i'm an addict
    "Do you have another day 1 in you?"
    “If I can't win what sense does it make to fight?” -Father Martin on Step 1
    Clean as of 05.30.2014 (4:00pm)

  28. #28
    DDAVE45 is offline Member
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    soscrewed.....if your not stable and your lowering your dose too fast....your def. gonna have w/d's. This is not something that should be rushed. You really have to take your time and do it right. When i jumped off subs 5 months ago....i didnt have any w/d at all.....not even trouble sleeping. This can be done.....just has to be done right.

  29. #29
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Kid View Post
    wow! did you fall on your keyboard?
    Hi Comeback Kid,

    I am Karen and it's very nice to meet you. He has been having some issues going back and forth between pills and subs. I am really worried about him right now. That is not like him to type like that at all. I am basically new here and I can't offer much in the way of the help that he requires right now. Hopefully someone will be here soon.

    But nice to meet you anyway Kid. Blessings to you.

    Hugs,
    Karen
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  30. #30
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    QUOTE=soscrewed;370029]The town I live in is to small, too mitotero, and too judgemental. I can't go to NA here. If I did, it would be all around town by the next.morning. I would never get another job. All the jobs here require clearances where you can't use drugs or have used drugs. It is ironic because there are so many people using!! Does anyone know of an on-line NA? I have no support and really need some.[/QUOTE]

    I don't know if they let you recommend other places here, but there is a website called In the Rooms or intherooms.com. They have 12 step programs and online meetings. You can check them out.

    Iloerose
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