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Need Advice PLESE
  1. #1
    astiver is offline New Member
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    So it’s been 43 days of no suboxone which I never thought in a million years I would be where I’m at right now. I did take a vicoden’s (5mg) that’s it to take the edge off the withdrawals which were absolutely hell and everyone I talked to was right all it did in taking the vicoden was prolong the hell that I knew I was going to have to bear at some point but I did it. After being on suboxone for 1 and a half year I’m really proud of myself. The only thing I want to know is I’ve never had migrain headache so I’m not sure if that’s what I have but I have a headache all the time I mean ill wake up with one have one at work all day and when I go home from work I have one. My energy level is kind of better but I can’t possibly take anymore ibuprofen, aspirin, or Tylenol is this normal and when will it stop. ANYONE!!!!!!!

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    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by astiver View Post
    So it’s been 43 days of no suboxone which I never thought in a million years I would be where I’m at right now. I did take a vicoden’s (5mg) that’s it to take the edge off the withdrawals which were absolutely hell and everyone I talked to was right all it did in taking the vicoden was prolong the hell that I knew I was going to have to bear at some point but I did it. After being on suboxone for 1 and a half year I’m really proud of myself. The only thing I want to know is I’ve never had migrain headache so I’m not sure if that’s what I have but I have a headache all the time I mean ill wake up with one have one at work all day and when I go home from work I have one. My energy level is kind of better but I can’t possibly take anymore ibuprofen, aspirin, or Tylenol is this normal and when will it stop. ANYONE!!!!!!!
    Astiver,

    If I am reading this correctly you are 43 days clean except for taking the 5 mg of vic right?
    I am not questioning you but am questioning you as this just does not sound right. Is there anything else that you are taking? Drinking? Abusing? I am not trying to point fingers but trying to find an answer to your question. After 43 days clean sure you can still have some symptoms and for that matter some folk’s even months later but the headaches would come and go and not be there consistently. There has to be another reason. Also 43 days later the W/D should be to the point where you need to take a Vic to cope I mean you were 43 days clean!
    Have you seen a primary care physician about this? It could be from any one of a million things out there. Changes in eye sight and you may need new or adjustments to corrective lenses, Muscle strain, whiplash, poor posture, poor lighting, over work, stress, food you eat, depression, anxiety, and the list goes on.
    Also why can you not take OTC pain meds?
    If you had a migraine you would know it for sure. It is debilitating. Any sort of light, especially bright lights, is just plain torture. Noise bothers you. Motion bothers you. You will just want a cool, dark, quite place and even then everything bothers you insanely. You can not function with a migraine. It sounds like the headache is from some other source.
    I don’t think anyone here can answer your question regarding when it will stop. I would suggest going to see your primary care physician and letting him/her run some tests on you to see where this headache may be originating from.
    Good luck and hope you can get rid of your headache.

    Henry

  3. #3
    astiver is offline New Member
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    Thanks i dont know whats going on im not a drinker i smoke ciggerettes but the its been 12 days since i took a vicoden so i dont think thats it either. I went for 2-3 years abusing pain pills then saw a doctor to get on suboxone then after 1 and a half years and the doctor not even going over a treatment plan with me all he did was write me a prescriptions so this is a first in a LONG time that I've can say I'm sober but thanks for the advice i really appreciate it reading peoples stories and hearing someone tell you you will get better and that they have too been threw it makes a difference

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    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by astiver View Post
    Thanks i dont know whats going on im not a drinker i smoke ciggerettes but the its been 12 days since i took a vicoden so i dont think thats it either. I went for 2-3 years abusing pain pills then saw a doctor to get on suboxone then after 1 and a half years and the doctor not even going over a treatment plan with me all he did was write me a prescriptions so this is a first in a LONG time that I've can say I'm sober but thanks for the advice i really appreciate it reading peoples stories and hearing someone tell you you will get better and that they have too been threw it makes a difference
    My sub doctor is the same way, completely impersonal. He doesn't even ask how I'm doing

  5. #5
    Oxazolidinone is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by astiver View Post
    So it’s been 43 days of no suboxone which I never thought in a million years I would be where I’m at right now. I did take a vicoden’s (5mg) that’s it to take the edge off the withdrawals which were absolutely hell and everyone I talked to was right all it did in taking the vicoden was prolong the hell that I knew I was going to have to bear at some point but I did it. After being on suboxone for 1 and a half year I’m really proud of myself. The only thing I want to know is I’ve never had migrain headache so I’m not sure if that’s what I have but I have a headache all the time I mean ill wake up with one have one at work all day and when I go home from work I have one. My energy level is kind of better but I can’t possibly take anymore ibuprofen, aspirin, or Tylenol is this normal and when will it stop. ANYONE!!!!!!!
    Congratulations on your 43rd day off subs. I personally wouldn't taper off subs with hydrocodone, it's too strong. Codeine is a much better choice but now it doesn't matter because by now the taper process should be over.

    It's not normal if you have a headache all the time. Don't use vicodin, it's too strong. Tylenol #3 is the strongest analgesic you should use for migraines. Cut on the hydrocodone and get good sleep hours.

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by astiver View Post
    So it’s been 43 days of no suboxone which I never thought in a million years I would be where I’m at right now. I did take a vicoden’s (5mg) that’s it to take the edge off the withdrawals which were absolutely hell and everyone I talked to was right all it did in taking the vicoden was prolong the hell that I knew I was going to have to bear at some point but I did it. After being on suboxone for 1 and a half year I’m really proud of myself. The only thing I want to know is I’ve never had migrain headache so I’m not sure if that’s what I have but I have a headache all the time I mean ill wake up with one have one at work all day and when I go home from work I have one. My energy level is kind of better but I can’t possibly take anymore ibuprofen, aspirin, or Tylenol is this normal and when will it stop. ANYONE!!!!!!!
    When you said you can't possibly take any more of the OTC meds - I assume you mean that you're already taking a lot of them - and can't take more.

    There is a rather common phenomenon known as "rebound headaches" that result from regular use of OTC meds to stop headaches. Seriously, the very stuff you're taking to stop the headache is perpetuating the pain. I know cause i lived that way for years - and back then, no one knew about rebound headaches! It did make my life sheer hell, until a doctor clued into what was going on with me. One clear sign of rebound headaches is waking up with it.

    If you can't stop the OTC meds on your own, your doctor can prescribe a short-term steroid (prednisone) that will help you over the hurdle with rebound cycle. It's basically less than a week of taking a low dose of prednisone, while NOT taking the OTC meds of asprin, tylenol, nsaids, etc.

    I hope you'll look into it.

    God bless,
    Ruth

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxazolidinone View Post
    Congratulations on your 43rd day off subs. I personally wouldn't taper off subs with hydrocodone, it's too strong. Codeine is a much better choice but now it doesn't matter because by now the taper process should be over.

    It's not normal if you have a headache all the time. Don't use vicodin, it's too strong. Tylenol #3 is the strongest analgesic you should use for migraines. Cut on the hydrocodone and get good sleep hours.
    Whoa... hold on there with that kind of "advice"!!!

    Suboxone IS the drug to take to stop taking other narcotics - period. You do NOT turn to any other narcotic, including codeine, to taper off suboxone - that is pure rubbish! It would completely reverse all the work that a person has done by taking the suboxone. It would lead right back into drug addiction, for God's sake! No addictive drug is needed to taper off suboxone.

    I've seen you posting elsewhere this kind of nonsense about codeine, as if it's somehow a "safe" drug for an addict to take. NO. I don't know where you got your info about codeine, but I think you need a serious refresher course. The more powerful narcotics, like oxycodone or hydrocodone are synthetic forms of codeine!!! That kind of "advice" could be lethal.


  8. #8
    Oxazolidinone is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARTIST658 View Post
    Whoa... hold on there with that kind of "advice"!!!

    Suboxone IS the drug to take to stop taking other narcotics - period. You do NOT turn to any other narcotic, including codeine, to taper off suboxone - that is pure rubbish! It would completely reverse all the work that a person has done by taking the suboxone. It would lead right back into drug addiction, for God's sake! No addictive drug is needed to taper off suboxone.

    I've seen you posting elsewhere this kind of nonsense about codeine, as if it's somehow a "safe" drug for an addict to take. NO. I don't know where you got your info about codeine, but I think you need a serious refresher course. The more powerful narcotics, like oxycodone or hydrocodone are synthetic forms of codeine!!! That kind of "advice" could be lethal.

    You're gona teach me chemistry now? You can't taper of suboxone with suboxone...you need to use a different drug for better results and the hydrocodone he was taking is too strong and addicting. Hydrocodone is 12x stronger than codeine and suboxone is much more potent than hydrocodone. Codeine is like sugar pills compared to these 2, get your facts straight.

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxazolidinone View Post
    You're gona teach me chemistry now? You can't taper of suboxone with suboxone...you need to use a different drug for better results and the hydrocodone he was taking is too strong and addicting. Hydrocodone is 12x stronger than codeine and suboxone is much more potent than hydrocodone. Codeine is like sugar pills compared to these 2, get your facts straight.

    I have my facts straight. I've been in recovery for most of the past 20 years, been educated in substance abuse on the graduate level and have been working in the field of substance abuse for many years. This is what I do for a living.

    Suboxone is used to treat opiate addiction. Period. A person does not use suboxone to treat opiate addiction... just to go back on an opiate (codeine) to get off the suboxone. That's just foolish.

    Codeine is an opiate in every sense of the word, not "like a sugar pill." It is ridiculous to expect that a person who has already experienced the loss of control that is basic to the concept of addiction - can now 'control' his drug use, switching to another addictive drug, namely codeine.

    It's not unlike an alcoholic who had a problem with whiskey - moving on to wine, as it has less alcohol content. It's perpetuating the disease of addiction, period.

    I have no idea what your background is, or why you're posting here now. Clearly, addiction is not your forte. And a good majority of the posts on this forum have to do with substance abuse. Your kind of advice - when dealing with drug addiction - is potentially very harmful.


  10. #10
    astiver is offline New Member
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    Thanks to everyone this is the longest I have been sober in a long time i went from taking pain pills mainly oxy's to going on suboxone which I think my doctor should of never kept me on them for 1 and a half. I have 44 days today of no suboxone and when I first found this website and posted someone told me that me taking the vicoden to ease the withdrawl symptoms was just prolonging the hell that was coming the (withdrawl symptons) i mean and that person was right. I mean even after this many days the real bad part is behind me but I still have sneezing spouts,seating even when I'm cold not as bad as it was at first,headache's,lack of energy the list goes on. I think back at when I first started taking pills and I really feel that I traded the pain pils for the suboxone. The doctor I was seeing never and I mean never even talked with me about a (plan). He just took my money and wrote me perscriptions but anyways I seem to always learn the hard way about things. Thanks again to all that gave me advice it does help

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    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by astiver View Post
    Thanks to everyone this is the longest I have been sober in a long time i went from taking pain pills mainly oxy's to going on suboxone which I think my doctor should of never kept me on them for 1 and a half. I have 44 days today of no suboxone and when I first found this website and posted someone told me that me taking the vicoden to ease the withdrawl symptoms was just prolonging the hell that was coming the (withdrawl symptons) i mean and that person was right. I mean even after this many days the real bad part is behind me but I still have sneezing spouts,seating even when I'm cold not as bad as it was at first,headache's,lack of energy the list goes on. I think back at when I first started taking pills and I really feel that I traded the pain pils for the suboxone. The doctor I was seeing never and I mean never even talked with me about a (plan). He just took my money and wrote me perscriptions but anyways I seem to always learn the hard way about things. Thanks again to all that gave me advice it does help
    Astiver,

    Keep up the good work staying clean. Stay away from all opiates, yes codeine is an opiate and is listed as primarily a Schedule III narcotic. There are variations as Schedule II and other listings as well and as Artist said many other pain meds are various spin offs of codeine.
    The “Flu” or “Cold” like symptoms is a normal reaction to W/D from opiates. In all honesty I felt symptoms even at the 6 month clean mark. Mind you now no where near as bad as when I just got clean but it was still annoying never the less. Headaches I would get on occasions. Stiff neck was pretty much an ever day thing for me. RLS on occasions and in particular that feeling where my right leg just felt like it was detached was most annoying and it only happened when I was in bed trying to sleep. I got a script for Requip which really helped with the RLS but it also gave me headaches and I hate headaches with a passion so I chose to not take them and suffer the RLS instead. Each of us is different and as you know you may feel something others may not and vice versa. As time went on the symptoms dissipated and today just over a year being clean I am finally starting to get into a normal sleep pattern. Again each individual is different and others I spoke to felt almost nothing and some even worse. All though say that with each passing day the symptoms become less and less intense.
    Hang in there and never give up. You have a new start and another chance at life. Take advantage of it and live the life you always wanted. Now that you have been there and done that you no longer take things for granted that we all once did. Life means more to us now than ever before.
    You did well!!!

    Henry

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    Oxazolidinone is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARTIST658 View Post
    I have my facts straight. I've been in recovery for most of the past 20 years, been educated in substance abuse on the graduate level and have been working in the field of substance abuse for many years. This is what I do for a living.

    Suboxone is used to treat opiate addiction. Period. A person does not use suboxone to treat opiate addiction... just to go back on an opiate (codeine) to get off the suboxone. That's just foolish.

    Codeine is an opiate in every sense of the word, not "like a sugar pill." It is ridiculous to expect that a person who has already experienced the loss of control that is basic to the concept of addiction - can now 'control' his drug use, switching to another addictive drug, namely codeine.

    It's not unlike an alcoholic who had a problem with whiskey - moving on to wine, as it has less alcohol content. It's perpetuating the disease of addiction, period.

    I have no idea what your background is, or why you're posting here now. Clearly, addiction is not your forte. And a good majority of the posts on this forum have to do with substance abuse. Your kind of advice - when dealing with drug addiction - is potentially very harmful.

    You want a subs addict to keep taking subs. Lol. I'm a chemist, for your info. Codeine is an opiate in every sense...ok then what is subs which is 40x stronger than codeine?
    Last edited by Oxazolidinone; 12-01-2010 at 07:51 PM.

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    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARTIST658 View Post
    I have my facts straight. I've been in recovery for most of the past 20 years, been educated in substance abuse on the graduate level and have been working in the field of substance abuse for many years. This is what I do for a living.

    Suboxone is used to treat opiate addiction. Period. A person does not use suboxone to treat opiate addiction... just to go back on an opiate (codeine) to get off the suboxone. That's just foolish.

    Codeine is an opiate in every sense of the word, not "like a sugar pill." It is ridiculous to expect that a person who has already experienced the loss of control that is basic to the concept of addiction - can now 'control' his drug use, switching to another addictive drug, namely codeine.

    It's not unlike an alcoholic who had a problem with whiskey - moving on to wine, as it has less alcohol content. It's perpetuating the disease of addiction, period.

    I have no idea what your background is, or why you're posting here now. Clearly, addiction is not your forte. And a good majority of the posts on this forum have to do with substance abuse. Your kind of advice - when dealing with drug addiction - is potentially very harmful.

    You realize that you can comment and educate people without putting other peoples ideas down? Your 1 size fits all textbook ideas are no better than the doctors that hand out the suboxone with no idea what they are doing in the first place. Everybody is different, and whatever it takes to keep themselves from chasing their doc, more power to them. I think telling someone to abstain from everything can be very harmful. What if someone had been dealing with PAWS for 43 days and going out and having a few beers with friends could save his life, but instead stayed home and decided he couldn't wake up 1 more day feeling that way? I think adding your 2 cents on top of his and letting him make the choice for himself will benefit these forums a little more than just judging someone.

  14. #14
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Astiver,

    Apologies for that nonsense last night.
    Let us know how you are doing? You have good clean time under your belt and there are many out here that read but do not post and I know they would love to hear how you are doing and coming along.
    Hope you are having a wondeful day!

    Henry

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    icandothis is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by yezdegerd View Post
    You realize that you can comment and educate people without putting other peoples ideas down? Your 1 size fits all textbook ideas are no better than the doctors that hand out the suboxone with no idea what they are doing in the first place. Everybody is different, and whatever it takes to keep themselves from chasing their doc, more power to them. I think telling someone to abstain from everything can be very harmful. What if someone had been dealing with PAWS for 43 days and going out and having a few beers with friends could save his life, but instead stayed home and decided he couldn't wake up 1 more day feeling that way? I think adding your 2 cents on top of his and letting him make the choice for himself will benefit these forums a little more than just judging someone.
    i have to agree with artist on this one..... that other guy had no i dea what was going on with the situation and he was pretty outta line

  16. #16
    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by icandothis View Post
    i have to agree with artist on this one..... that other guy had no i dea what was going on with the situation and he was pretty outta line
    I completely agree with artist also, but I see her nitpicking a lot of posts and this is a forum to help each other. She has been around a long time and her knowledge of recovery is amazing I just want to see everyone posting in a positive manner. Everyone on here has some type of experience with it and everyone is different, just post your thoughts and ideas and let the original posters decide for themselves what's best for them. We are all adults.

    Ruth I mean no disrespect, you're a much valued part of this community and yes the other guys choice of medication was silly, but let's let him be the negative one and you can do what you do best which is give great advice!

  17. #17
    ComingHome is offline Senior Member
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    Astiver, I tend to agree with Artist (Ruth) here. In my experience, it's best to stay away from opiates for this type of situation. Sub is used to get off opiates like oxy, hydrocodone, and maybe even sometimes codeine - not vice versa. Sub can then be weaned off sucessfully, and it just takes time for your body to recover. It's a matter of patience and faith that time helps heal our bodies and minds. Codeine can be abused just like all the rest of them, and Tylenol 3 was how I first got started on the opiate roller-coaster.

    One is too many, and a thousand is never enough.

    CH
    There is ALWAYS hope

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    Melissa B is offline Senior Member
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    Hi Astiver

    I completely agree with Ruth. She has been helping people here for a long time and I would tend to listen to someone with some serious clean time under their belt. You are doing great and your absolutely right about not using other opiates to ease the suboxone discomfort...bad idea! Keep moving forward and your days will get better and better! Being a prisoner to opiate addiction is a painful existence and once we end that battle our lives start to take on a whole new meaning. Wishing you all the best!

    Melissa
    Melissa

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    sherry23 is offline New Member
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    Default reply to Need Advice PLESE

    Has anyone mentioned the "Thomas Recipe" for opiate withdrawal ? Its at the beginnig of the new posts page. Maybe u haave something going on that can be helped by vitamins and such.. But u should be checked by a doctor after that long with headaches I think.
    Congrats on the clean time!!!Keep up the good work, your in control now, not the drugs.

  20. #20
    astiver is offline New Member
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    ya i feel normal but then again i dont even know what feeling normal is anymore it's just been so long but its a good feeling not having a little pill controlloing my lifeme headaches have stopped at least for the last couple days i just still sweat alot and at this point its becoming very annoying.

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    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by astiver View Post
    ya i feel normal but then again i dont even know what feeling normal is anymore it's just been so long but its a good feeling not having a little pill controlloing my lifeme headaches have stopped at least for the last couple days i just still sweat alot and at this point its becoming very annoying.
    Hello Astiver,

    Glad to hear your headaches have stopped. You may feel them from time to time as headaches are indeed one of the many symptoms one may feel. Depends on the person as each person is different. I didn't have headaches but I did have a very stiff neck. Sweats I had for sure and when it hit it wasn't a little moisture on the forehead either. It was torrents and not even dripping off my face but dribbling. It was that heavy and my shirt would get litterally soaked. It was so bad I had 2 complete changes of clothing in my desk at the office. Did you know that the back of your knees can sweat? Lol! I discovered that and found it strange but funny. Make sure to stay hydrated as one time I had a sweating spell then went out for a jog and almost toppled over. Normally I work up a good sweat when jogging but I wasn't sweating so I knew I was dehydrated. I felt so much better after I made it home and had plenty of water and took it easy for a while.
    Hang in there you are going on heck of a fine job at this. The annoying symptoms will slowly go away but the prize of being clean and free is well worth the effort to plow through. Keep posting too as there are many on here that just read and never post and you are a great inspiration to everyone out there.
    Have a great day and it is finally Friday!

    Henry

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