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Need advice Percocet/Subutex avid reader of your help for Cheryl
  1. #31
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    Robert,
    OK, I think I’m in pretty decent shape. And between the last .5mg dose and whatever extra help the tylenol gave me, the neck pain dropped down a couple notches. It’s still in that annoying category, but not gnawing at me and not truly painful. The spaciness is also better, I can actually carry on a conversation, which for a few hours was not an option. I would like to feel a little more clear headed, but I have to believe that a 4 mg dose tomorrow split by 8 hours or so will be a lot better than these doses much closer together today. What do you think??
    Tonite if I have any problems with sleep I will stick with tylenol pm…NO benzos-got the message on that loud & clear! Skelaxin goes on the back burner for when I really need it. I forgot to tell you I also have maxalt for migraines-saw your posts about zomig-maxalt is very similar –just happens to work better for me

    So, what’s the plan captain?
    Emily

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    Quote Originally Posted by csmlw View Post
    Robert,
    OK, I think I’m in pretty decent shape. And between the last .5mg dose and whatever extra help the tylenol gave me, the neck pain dropped down a couple notches. It’s still in that annoying category, but not gnawing at me and not truly painful. The spaciness is also better, I can actually carry on a conversation, which for a few hours was not an option. I would like to feel a little more clear headed, but I have to believe that a 4 mg dose tomorrow split by 8 hours or so will be a lot better than these doses much closer together today. What do you think??
    Tonite if I have any problems with sleep I will stick with tylenol pm…NO benzos-got the message on that loud & clear! Skelaxin goes on the back burner for when I really need it. I forgot to tell you I also have maxalt for migraines-saw your posts about zomig-maxalt is very similar –just happens to work better for me

    So, what’s the plan captain?
    Emily



    Tomorrow the 4mg will be your amount for the day. So you will take 2mg when you get up and take 2mg 8 hours later. Post to me during the day and let me know how you're feeling. You're going to do well tomorrow at that I have NO DOUBT. Just have faith. Talk with you tomorrow. I'll check on you late morning. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #33
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    Robert,
    Will do,Thank you...words are definitely inadequate!
    E

  4. #34
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    Henry & cheeky & Melinda,
    Thanks for all for your wonderful support. I will chat more tomorrow-need some escapism tonite with a little mindless tv or something. How wonderful to know you are in my corner!!
    Emily

  5. #35
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    good morning emily.
    i bet you are feeling like a box of birds.
    good on you girl. you are doing it.
    cheeky

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheekysod View Post
    good morning emily.
    i bet you are feeling like a box of birds.
    good on you girl. you are doing it.
    cheeky
    my dear Cheeky,
    not quite sure what a box of birds feels like lol, but if you're saying it...it must be good!! Yes, i do feel good this am-a sense of accomplishment for my small victories yesterday...
    You are definitely "paying it forward" by helping me and I so appreciate it!
    E

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Tomorrow the 4mg will be your amount for the day. So you will take 2mg when you get up and take 2mg 8 hours later. Post to me during the day and let me know how you're feeling. You're going to do well tomorrow at that I have NO DOUBT. Just have faith. Talk with you tomorrow. I'll check on you late morning. God bless.
    Good morning Robert!
    Today is a good day...Just took my first dose-stay tuned.

    It took a while to get going this am- The addict me took 2 tylenol pm last nite, because I was so paranoid about not sleeping. I usually try to take just one because it's always a little too hard to get going in the am with 2. I was exhausted when I went to bed and knew I needed that sleep--well I got it! But, it took 2-3 hours to finally drag my butt out of bed. So, tonite it's one or none! I did have a migraine from about 5am on, so I took a maxalt about 30 minutes before the first dose. That also had something to do with the sluggish feeling, but as we all know over medicating may have been the real culprit
    I actually feel like I can now write back to Henry now, so that's one of the many things on my to do list for today.
    I'll keep you posted, God Bless!
    E

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryNCBA View Post
    Emily,
    You are doing just great! It REALLY helps Robert lots if more people would be up front with everything about their condition. He can not recommend something correctly based on an incomplete picture. I can not comment on the Skelaxin (Metaxalone) as I have no experience with it but upon checking it out I don't see it as a narcotic although it may enhance the effects of narcotics. You have a good spirit about all this and I have full confidence that following Robert's recommendations to the letter that you will come out of this feeling great! As you stated you already feel pretty good considering how you were earlier.
    Valium (Diazepam) I found is something that does not agree with me. If you read my thread you will see what I am talking about. It works great for many folks though and as everyone is different what works for you may not work for someone else etc... I would personally hold off on the Valium until Robert gives you the okay as it may possibly mask some symptoms just in case. Never hurts to be safe than sorry.
    Earlier you mentioned you had platelet injections. Do you have a low platelet count? If so that could very well be the reason that your doctor doesn't want you on an NSAID medication. Tylenol will not thin your blood either and is much easier on your gut than an NSAID. Be careful with some of those so called sleep aide OTC medications. Many of them if you look at the ingredient list contain antihistamine of one type or another and that is what makes you sleepy. You might not want to combine that with Skelaxin and your Sub. Are you taking any other meds other than what you listed so far?

    Henry
    Henry,
    WOW, you were so amazing yesterday-Thank you!

    And as I said to Robert, you have already helped me more than you will know, just by reading parts of your journey. I will read more today.
    I just could not get it together yesterday to do anything more than type a few words, but I did want to answer a few of your questions…
    PRP stands for Platelet Rich Plasma. No my platelets aren’t low, but here is the theory etc of the injection:
    First they draw about 30 cc’s of your own blood from your arm and then spin it down into the separate parts. Then they inject only the platelets into the injured tendon. The theory is that the healthy platelets will jumpstart the healing in that area by “teaching” the damaged tissue to regenerate itself. This is still in the research phase and the doc gave me a 50/50 shot of this working. They just do not have enough data on it to know. 4-6 weeks later he examines me for tenderness, etc and then may reinject if it’s helping, but not enough or I progress out of the walking boot, etc. He and I both felt this was worth the try in order to avoid surgery-my tendon is not completely torn, just “severly degenerated”. So, we’ll see-I’m actually pretty optimistic about it, based on how I feel so far. I guess the reason to avoid advil, etc is that a certain amount of inflammation is healthy to get this going-kind of like stirring the pot…
    FYI for both you & Robert, my other meds are nexium, lipitor and atenolol which is a beta blocker. I have borderline high bp, but the atenolol is actually taken more as a preventive for migraines-it kind of works for both- something about stabilizing the blood vessels?

    I’ll be in touch more today probably with questions for you about your journey—Thanks a million!!
    E

  9. #39
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    Hi Robert,
    OK, so here’s the scoop-at both 60 & 90 minutes after the 2mg dose I definitely have that woozy head not attached to the body feeling- not good! Perhaps not as bad as yesterday mid afternoon, but definitely non functual. It actually seems ala yesterday that it gradually gets worse starting at about 45 minutes and by 90 it’s hard to type, etc. Felt great while typing my first post to cheeky and just semi ok by the time I got done with my post to Henry. My neck pain is probably only a 2-3/10 vs 5 ish at it’s worse yesterday.

    What do you think?
    Emily

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    Quote Originally Posted by csmlw View Post
    Hi Robert,
    OK, so here’s the scoop-at both 60 & 90 minutes after the 2mg dose I definitely have that woozy head not attached to the body feeling- not good! Perhaps not as bad as yesterday mid afternoon, but definitely non functual. It actually seems ala yesterday that it gradually gets worse starting at about 45 minutes and by 90 it’s hard to type, etc. Felt great while typing my first post to cheeky and just semi ok by the time I got done with my post to Henry. My neck pain is probably only a 2-3/10 vs 5 ish at it’s worse yesterday.

    What do you think?
    Emily


    I had kind of a rough night last night with some pain issues and just got up. So I'm about half asleep. Refresh my memory here .. when you say you have the "woozy head" feeling wasn't that the way you felt yesterday prior to us increasing your dose? Like I told you yesterday it may take us a couple days of making adjustments but I want you to stay at the lowest dose possible. So was this the feeling we corrected by adding to your dose? I'm thinking we may need to add .5 mg to the morning and the evening doses since we're splitting your dose into two smaller doses. Answer my question and I'll be waiting. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I had kind of a rough night last night with some pain issues and just got up. So I'm about half asleep. Refresh my memory here .. when you say you have the "woozy head" feeling wasn't that the way you felt yesterday prior to us increasing your dose? Like I told you yesterday it may take us a couple days of making adjustments but I want you to stay at the lowest dose possible. So was this the feeling we corrected by adding to your dose? I'm thinking we may need to add .5 mg to the morning and the evening doses since we're splitting your dose into two smaller doses. Answer my question and I'll be waiting. God bless.
    Robert,
    I’m a little confused by your question because I thought most of yesterday was cutting the dose back. Here is a brief recap of yesterday:
    1. First dose 2mg- after 1hr woozy feeling but minor compared to this and also as the day progressed yesterday
    2. 2nd dose -1mg after 90 minutes following your adjustment strategy very woozy
    3. 3rd dose-.5mg still loopy but not quite as bad
    4. 4th dose .5mg woozy feeling much improved, but not perfect. Fatigue at the end of the day
    E

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    Quote Originally Posted by csmlw View Post
    Robert,
    I’m a little confused by your question because I thought most of yesterday was cutting the dose back. Here is a brief recap of yesterday:
    1. First dose 2mg- after 1hr woozy feeling but minor compared to this and also as the day progressed yesterday
    2. 2nd dose -1mg after 90 minutes following your adjustment strategy very woozy
    3. 3rd dose-.5mg still loopy but not quite as bad
    4. 4th dose .5mg woozy feeling much improved, but not perfect. Fatigue at the end of the day
    E



    Emily .... we weren't cutting anything back. We were adding those doses together to come up with the TOTAL amount that it took to make you stable. So after taking 2mg, 1mg and .5mg two times you were stable at 4mg. That 4mg was your final dose for the day. Those small increments were just done to induct you.

    On the second day we split your daily dose into two equal halves. So being at 4mg for the day yesterday ideally we try to have you on 2mg twice today, once when you get up and once about eight hours later.

    Sometimes when we split the dose on the second day the "half" of the previous day total isn't quite enough and we have to adjust the amount like I explained to you. So what I'm asking is," Are you feeling like you did yesterday when we added another .5mg to your dose? "

    I am thinking we may need to add .5mg to both your AM and PM doses. That would have you on a total of 5mg for the whole day rather than 4mg and that is still just fine. But I don't go throwing extra sub around like the drs do, I try to maintain you on the lowest effective dose. Doing this like I do it is the reason my inductions can last four days. I will end up having you totally stable, but on the very lowest dose that we can do it and be effective.

    I'm suggesting that you take .5mg more at this point. Then you shouldn't need any additional medication until 8 hours from the time you took that first dose. It's then important you follow that consistent regimen of taking each of your two doses at exactly the same time each day. Are we on the same page now? God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Emily .... we weren't cutting anything back. We were adding those doses together to come up with the TOTAL amount that it took to make you stable. So after taking 2mg, 1mg and .5mg two times you were stable at 4mg. That 4mg was your final dose for the day. Those small increments were just done to induct you.

    On the second day we split your daily dose into two equal halves. So being at 4mg for the day yesterday ideally we try to have you on 2mg twice today, once when you get up and once about eight hours later.

    Sometimes when we split the dose on the second day the "half" of the previous day total isn't quite enough and we have to adjust the amount like I explained to you. So what I'm asking is," Are you feeling like you did yesterday when we added another .5mg to your dose? "

    I am thinking we may need to add .5mg to both your AM and PM doses. That would have you on a total of 5mg for the whole day rather than 4mg and that is still just fine. But I don't go throwing extra sub around like the drs do, I try to maintain you on the lowest effective dose. Doing this like I do it is the reason my inductions can last four days. I will end up having you totally stable, but on the very lowest dose that we can do it and be effective.

    I'm suggesting that you take .5mg more at this point. Then you shouldn't need any additional medication until 8 hours from the time you took that first dose. It's then important you follow that consistent regimen of taking each of your two doses at exactly the same time each day. Are we on the same page now? God bless.
    OK, I think I get it now-I will take .5mg now and I already have an alarm set for the second dose at 5:25pm east coast time. If I still feel really woozy in 90 minutes, should I take another .5mg? I will keep you posted. I see you are traveling from one of Melinda's posts--How can I thank you?!

    God bless,
    E

  14. #44
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    Robert,
    I don't know if you were able to see my last post, but after 1 hr with the additional .5mg I am not much better-maybe 20% or so? I'll check back in in 30 minutes or so.

    Emily

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    Emily ..... Go ahead and add .5mg now. That will be enough until your next dose in the late afternoon. We won't have you taking this stuff all throughout the day. But when tomorrow gets here we will know you need more than 2mg to start the day. We just need to keep up with the extra you've taken, and we'll add more to the smaller dose we had planned for this afternoon.

    You'll still be at no more than 6mg by the time we're done. That is still a good dose for induction considering most drs tell people to take 16mg a day. That is crazy. And we haven't gotten to the last day of induction yet where we reduce your dose by 25%.

    Don't forget I told you this induction takes four days to get it down exactly right. Just have faith in me and the plan we're following. But as late as it's getting there is NO reason to add anything else after you take this additional .5mg now. It will be dosing time again in a while.

    I'm signing off for a little while now. I have an auto transport coming by here to pick up my car to carry it to Washington to Melinda's and my house. So I have to get it ready. Just remember that your regular dose time will be here in a while. Considering you've now added a full 1mg extra to the morning dose you'll do the same thing this afternoon. Instead of taking 2mg this afternoon you'll want to take 3mg. Just go ahead and plan on that.

    Tomorrow will go smoother and then Monday we'll have you totally stable. That's a promise, just have faith and do exactly like I'm asking you to do. You're doing great following instructions. That's all I can ask for. Tomorrow afternoon I'll be flying home to WA so there will be a few hours where I'll be away from a computer. But we'll have your plan all layed out for you so you'll do fine. I'll check back on you in a little while. Hang in there, this is going just fine. This is why we allow four days to induct properly. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Emily ..... Go ahead and add .5mg now. That will be enough until your next dose in the late afternoon. We won't have you taking this stuff all throughout the day. But when tomorrow gets here we will know you need more than 2mg to start the day. We just need to keep up with the extra you've taken, and we'll add more to the smaller dose we had planned for this afternoon.

    You'll still be at no more than 6mg by the time we're done. That is still a good dose for induction considering most drs tell people to take 16mg a day. That is crazy. And we haven't gotten to the last day of induction yet where we reduce your dose by 25%.

    Don't forget I told you this induction takes four days to get it down exactly right. Just have faith in me and the plan we're following. But as late as it's getting there is NO reason to add anything else after you take this additional .5mg now. It will be dosing time again in a while.

    I'm signing off for a little while now. I have an auto transport coming by here to pick up my car to carry it to Washington to Melinda's and my house. So I have to get it ready. Just remember that your regular dose time will be here in a while. Considering you've now added a full 1mg extra to the morning dose you'll do the same thing this afternoon. Instead of taking 2mg this afternoon you'll want to take 3mg. Just go ahead and plan on that.

    Tomorrow will go smoother and then Monday we'll have you totally stable. That's a promise, just have faith and do exactly like I'm asking you to do. You're doing great following instructions. That's all I can ask for. Tomorrow afternoon I'll be flying home to WA so there will be a few hours where I'll be away from a computer. But we'll have your plan all layed out for you so you'll do fine. I'll check back on you in a little while. Hang in there, this is going just fine. This is why we allow four days to induct properly. God bless.
    Robert,
    Got it--just took the .5 and will take 3.0 at 5:25-Only one question for tomorrow-For the am dose I took it so late today because of oversleeping. I would prefer to move it up in conjunction with my normal schedule. Could I move the dose up to 8:30am and then the afternoon dose would be at 4:30pm? This would be a one time change. Pls advise.
    Thnx,
    Emily

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    That is fine. Just keep it to the normal schedule after today. It's just very important to have the times down right (with the correct number of hours between doses) during the induction as everything we make plans on for the future are based on what we do during the induction.

    Okay .... I'm signing off now for a little while to take care of my car and get it ready for the transport to get here. I will check back on you in a little while. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  18. #48
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    Hi Emily,
    Normally I am pretty long winded but I have a memorial service I need to take off for so this will be short. For me anyway. You are doing great! Just keep hanging in there and follow Roberts suggestions and believe me that you will be feeling great! I can promise that also. Today is day 6 of my own being clean and I am so glad I had enough brains to listen to him. YOU WON'T BE SORRY!!!
    Have a great day as your journey to freedom has begun!

    Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryNCBA View Post
    Hi Emily,
    Normally I am pretty long winded but I have a memorial service I need to take off for so this will be short. For me anyway. You are doing great! Just keep hanging in there and follow Roberts suggestions and believe me that you will be feeling great! I can promise that also. Today is day 6 of my own being clean and I am so glad I had enough brains to listen to him. YOU WON'T BE SORRY!!!
    Have a great day as your journey to freedom has begun!

    Henry
    Thanks Henry! Congrats on day # 6!! How cool is that?!!
    E

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    Hey all, I have a general question regarding time needed to allow between sub dose and food or beverage? I know I saw it somewhere, but can't find it again. i have been allowing an hour-but maybe it's a little looser than that?

    Thanks, Emily

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    Emily ..... once your medication is dissolved completely under your tongue it's okay to eat. I normally ate prior to taking the medication. When people are in detox centers where they use suboxone/subutex breakfast is usually served first prior to taking meds. At least that is my experience. Bottom line is that it doesn't really make any difference as long as the medication is fully dissolved prior to eating anything. I do recommend drinking a glass of water before taking your medication so that you are properly hydrated. This will make it easier for the subs to dissolve completely in a timely manner. My automobile transport just pulled up. Talk with you later. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Thnx Robert feeling a little better as the afternoon goes by...Still a little head disconnected from body feeling/woozy...if that makes any sense at all-but better than earlier today. Will be taking 2nd dose in about 35 minutes.
    E

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    Emily, I've been reading this thread from the beginning. I'm not saying anything is wrong with what you're doing at all but I have read the words "loopy, woozy, dizzy, sedated" and having "heavy eyelids almost not able to type" and being "fatigued" and feeling like your "head is disconnected from body". From my experience, all that sounds like someone who is taking too much opiate medication. As far as pain, sub is used as a pain med in other countries but at doses very much under 2 mg. It is not very effective at higher doses in relieving pain. I am just suggesting that perhaps you're taking too much. I know someone who inducted for their second try at sub treatment on 2 mgs. 2x a day who was actually getting stoned or sedated and woozy if you will. None of your descriptions sound like withdrawal but they do sound like the feelings we get from narcotics. The goal is to feel normal, not sick and not high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newyorkgal View Post
    Emily, I've been reading this thread from the beginning. I'm not saying anything is wrong with what you're doing at all but I have read the words "loopy, woozy, dizzy, sedated" and having "heavy eyelids almost not able to type" and being "fatigued" and feeling like your "head is disconnected from body". From my experience, all that sounds like someone who is taking too much opiate medication. As far as pain, sub is used as a pain med in other countries but at doses very much under 2 mg. It is not very effective at higher doses in relieving pain. I am just suggesting that perhaps you're taking too much. I know someone who inducted for their second try at sub treatment on 2 mgs. 2x a day who was actually getting stoned or sedated and woozy if you will. None of your descriptions sound like withdrawal but they do sound like the feelings we get from narcotics. The goal is to feel normal, not sick and not high.



    Perhaps you think I should back off and let you take care of the suboxone inductions/tapers? You seem to know lots more than I do.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Perhaps you think I should back off and let you take care of the suboxone inductions/tapers? You seem to know lots more than I do.
    Thanks Robert as always for watching out for me!!
    E

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    Quote Originally Posted by csmlw View Post
    Thanks Robert as always for watching out for me!!
    E




    Emily ...... Just stick to the plan like I've shared with you and everything will work out just fine I promise you. I've done this a few times.

    Have you ever heard of the saying, "Too many cooks spoil the soup?" You don't need a team of people walking you through your induction. People will end up ruining your confidence in anyone here and you'll be totally confused.

    You're doing just fine and as we wrap up the induction you'll be feeling great. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 11-14-2009 at 05:23 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Why the sarcastic response? I didn't say anything about you or to you so it was truly uncalled for. I just offered an observation that seemed so obvious that I was surprised no one mentioned it before me. I thought it was something Emily might want to think about. I didn't say one word about knowing more than you nor did I advise you to back off and I honestly don't know why you would think I was implying that. I just observed something and thought it was worth posting, TO EMILY. Franky, my post wasn't about you, Robert, at all. It was about possibly making Emily feel better during her taper. It STILL sounds to me like she's taking too much, just from my somewhat limited knowledge of how too much of a narcotic drug might make a person feel loopy and woozy and overly sedated. Your sarcastic response to me was silly. It isn't about you.

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    Not going to argue with you! Don't have the least bit of interest in going there ever again. Been there, did that already. Emily can do as she chooses if she wants to follow your instructions with (as you said) "your limited knowledge."
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Emily, if you feel fine and don't feel overmedicated, than please, feel free to disregard my post. That's what great about a site like this. You can take what works for you and discard what doesn't. However, I was certainly not trying to hurt you or "take over" or whatever. I was merely making an observation based on your descriptions of how you felt in so many of your posts. I wonder, is it looking out for someone when someone else is unable to make an observation or suggestion without getting a sarcastic response? That's for you to decide, of course, Emily. It seemed to me like you were taking too much. My sister started at 4 mgs. a day prescribed by a doctor and she had trouble keeping her eyes open and wasn't very functional. Two days later, she decreased it to 2 mgs. and that symptom stopped. It was just a thought on my part that the same might apply to you. I was not implying that any advice you were receiving was wrong because it isn't. I was just making a suggestion and trying to help. Again, I wish you nothing but the very best of luck with your taper.
    NYG

  30. #60
    csmlw is offline Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    197

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    Hi Robert,
    90 min after the 3.0 dose, Still a little woozy no worse though. Neck pain revving up to mid level--What do you think?
    Thanks, Emily

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