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Methadone to suboxone getting ready to make the plunge
  1. #1
    chelmsley is offline Junior Member
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    Default Methadone to suboxone getting ready to make the plunge

    Hey guys been reading a lot of the posts on here and just wanted to ask some questions im really really really worried after reading a lot of personal experiences with the meth to sub swich. Talked to my doctor a few weeks ago and i have been tapering down on the meth for awhile now. I am at 20mg's and have been for a few weeks after spending months at 27. I am starting to come out of the methadone induced mini-coma and experience anxiety (bad anxiety like i had when i was clean) and loss of sleep.

    Anyways after mentioning this to the doc he wanted to bring me into his fold get me off meth and on the suboxone program he has. I was all for it at first. Now after coming on the internet all i read are these horror stories. I can deal with not taking the meth for 2-3 days and going through that but if once i get the suboxone i still might be going through a prolonged hell for 2 weeks i just cant do that. Ive read very few success stories from meth to sub switch and much more horror stories. I know my doc will tell me not to believe what i read on here but im pretty sure the majority of his patients are oxy/vic users that switched.

    Actually the nurse for the clinic just called while i was typing this. Theyre going to put my induc appointment off from this Tuesday and just make it a regular appointment. I think she saw the switch was happening kinda quick for me and they backed it off.

    Anyways i really want to quit using these things altogether and start to get my life back. Maybe i should just continue my methadone taper down to nothing and deal with the hell then rather then go through a mini-hell now then 3 months from now again when i plan on coming off sub.

    One question, why dont they just subutex for the meth to sub people? Wouldnt that alleviate most of the precipitated withdrawal? Just use it for the first 1-4days of the induction to make the switch easier. I breifly asked about that when i was filling out the induction questionaire but the nurse said they didnt do that.

    I really appreciate any help any answers people in here have, i have alienated all my friends over the past 3 years ive been on meth. I have absolutely no one besides my landscaping boss that italk to and i cant mention anything to him... hes an old school 2nd generation italian the guy looks down on people that take tylenol for pain.

    Also lastly, ive been working out a lot for the past 6 months. Finally starting to build up muscle, but its been a lot slower then during the last few times ive started up. By now my bench would be 245 but its only 175... i feel like the meth is slowing down the gains but cant be sure. But i can imagine 20mgs of meth coarsing through your system constantly must slow down the muscle building process. I know for a fact it heavily raises prolactin levels. I was hoping switching to bup would help me a little with the gains

    i know it might sound stupid but this is something that means a lot to me able to workout and get the natural high from it and hopefully some slow but steady gains after reading the horror stories on here and the internet im worried i wont be able to workout for weeks and that break from my routine is really going to mess me up. Im a big routine person and everytime i got back into drugs it happened shortly after something came along to break up my routine.

    Im going to go the group that the sub users have, this will be before im inducted into the sub program but hopefully i can find a person or two who has gone the meth to sub route to get some advice on. As of now i have no one and that has never bothered me until now.
    Last edited by chelmsley; 07-02-2009 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Littlebug is offline Junior Member
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    Default Hi

    I have never done Mdone, but from what I have read (I am on sub) the w/d aren't to much different, they both have a long half life. They call sub Mdone light. If I were you I would really just try to taper off of the Mdone and skip the sub, you'll still have to wean off of the sub anyway and w/ mdones long half life you'll need to be on sub for quit awhile to get the Mdone out of your system and then at that point your going to be hooked on the sub. JMO Sub is no fun to get off of either.

    I wish you the best which ever way you go.

  3. #3
    intelmetal is offline Senior Member
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    Default Chelmsley

    Read my thread, it's Intelmetal. I was on 20mgs of methadone and made the switch. I have been working w/ Robert_325, tapering off subs. There are plenty of success stories on meth to sub, it is just a little harder. If you have any questions for me, just post them here and I will respond. My story is just like yours.
    IWANTOUT

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  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Default

    Intelmetal is right. Switching from methadone to sub isn't a big deal and I can have the entire thing over in 6-8 weeks. It will take you longer than that to taper down to zero off the methadone if you do it the right way. Let me know if you want my help. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #5
    chelmsley is offline Junior Member
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    yes exactly! But i know im not ready to come off of meth yet. Well actually i am, im just not ready to deal with the emotional hell of a drop from 20 to nothing. This is so hard to deal with, i have absolutely nothing to do with recrational drugs for the past 3 years (the day i started the meth program) but im only one skipped pill away from the worst withdrawals i have ever known. Makes me wish i just sucked it up 3 years ago and dealt with the much more comparitively mild withdrawal i wouldve had quitting my >>>>>> addiction. Honestly i was really psychologically addicted but beccause i had so much trouble getting it i was only one 3-5 (******** quality) bags a day. The physical attachment i dont think is nearly as much as this stuff.

    Anyways....

    My main questions are; are the horror stories im seeing about people who switched from meth to sub at all true? Even the people that did it correctly and waited 3-5 days after their last dose?

    If you do the prescribed period time off of meth and switch to subox will you still feel strange for weeks?

    I might make this last question a new topic but if i could somehow get the doc to give me subutex for the first few days would that help a lot lessen the chances of a precipitated withdrawal?

    im really glad theirs someone who went through the same process as me with this. Or close to the same process.

  6. #6
    chelmsley is offline Junior Member
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    Robert, what do you mean have the whole thing done? I think i explained things wrong kinda. I dont plan on quitting right away, soon but not right away. Im doing relatively ok right now coming down a milligram a week with stops for a week or three here and there. I was hoping the bup would lesson some of the symptoms i have of anxiety and after a few months come off. But im really hoping that i can continue to function working at landscaping. THe other reason i dont want to do it in 6-8 weeks is because thats the busiest time for landscaping and the hottest. So im hoping the bup switch wont be that hard and and that soon after i will feel as normal as i did on meth at least physically.
    Last edited by chelmsley; 07-02-2009 at 11:48 AM.

  7. #7
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    It's very simple. The horror stories you read are from people who didn't do it right. I don't care what they said if you follow the suggestions I give you there won't be any significant problems. You can work right through it, there is NOTHING that keeps you from doing anything you would normally do if you weren't using at all.

    If you don't want to stop the subs in a reasonable timeframe I would stay on the methadone. I don't recommend subs for longterm use, it defeats the purpose of making the switch. If you switch to subs with me I'll have you feeling better than you've felt since high school in a matter of hours. Getting "the whole thing done" means you're clean in 6-8 weeks. If you don't want to be clean in 6-8 weeks you should stay where you are.

    Switching to sub works. You still get sick during induction (even with subutex) if you start too soon. It's the buprenorphine that causes the precipitated w/d from starting too soon not the naloxone. It doesn't matter which you start on the subutex or suboxone you still have to do the induction properly. If someone told you differently they are WRONG. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  8. #8
    intelmetal is offline Senior Member
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    Default Chelmsley

    Did you read any of my thread ? I can tell you everything you can expect if you do the switch.
    IWANTOUT

    to live my life and to be free !

  9. #9
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    chelmsly ... Intelmetal is correct. You should talk to him about this rather than me. He comes from a methadone background like you and he can tell you anything you should need to know about our sub taper and all that. It makes sense to me. Let me know if I can help. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  10. #10
    chelmsley is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the replys guys, intelmetal im reading your thread right now. Sorry i shouldve read first before commenting further. IM reading it now. Im thinking i should hold off on the switch till i am ready to make it a 6-8 week quit phase. Taper down slowly off the meth.. probably over the course of 10-14 weeks to drop 10mgs then in September make the jump and be done hopefully by early November.

  11. #11
    intelmetal is offline Senior Member
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    Default Chelmsley

    This intelmetal, that would be good to lower your dose to 10mgs over time as it would make the induction process easier and you would probably not need much sub at that lowe dose of methadone. During my methadone taper, I slowly reduced my dose from 360 mgs ! to 10mgs over a period of years. I made the mistake of raising my dose back up to 20 mgs before I made the switch to subs. It went smoothly for me @ 8mgs of sub for 3 days then started to taper. It has been about 7 and a half weeks since I started sub treatment and it was the best decision I have ever made. You can do it now and be done much sooner, or you could wait till you get down to 10mgs and switch. I advise you to do it now rather than waiting till a later date. I always found excuses to not get better. I guess it was the addict in me wanting to stay on methadone. When I found out about subs, it was a no brainer for me as I was tired of the whole deal. I decided that I hurt my family, myself, my business, and so on, and it had to end. Sub therapy is pretty straight forward, just follow the taper plan as best as you can. Don't rush it, but really commit to finishing the taper as soon as possible. Make sure to exersize, get your vitamins, eat right, etc. And DON"T ABUSE THE SUBS ! It can be done if your not careful, just a warning to the wise. Good Luck, and ask me more questions if you want to know how it's gone so far for me. There are lots of things that I went through since I started, but nothing you can't handle. I look forward to hearing from you since I was a longtime methadone abuser and can relate. Who knows maybe you can give me some advice.
    IWANTOUT

    to live my life and to be free !

  12. #12
    chelmsley is offline Junior Member
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    like that "methadone abuser" is there really anyone who truly benefits from being put on a methadone clinic? I know their is but its seems like its such a low percent based on what i see at my methadone clinic. And my clinic is funded by a faith based hospital and state health insurance so its not a "for profit" clinic so i imagine the for profits would be much worse.

    sorry for bashing the meth clinics this is my own mess. Anyways im not sure what to do, my plan originally was just to get on suboxone and stay there for probably 3-4 months but now im thinking i should get on it and follow the slow taper method immediatly with plans on getting off within 8weeks. But thats a big thing for me and i wasnt planning on doing that this soon. Im still torn on this, if i decide to go for it i will be committed but this is a lot.

    In other areas ive finally gotten a few things going better, i have a great routine at the gym stopped smoking weed a year ago and am doing good in the regard but routine is everything for me. If i have to go through withdrawals and im worried my anxiety will return after 3 years of only having slight to no anxiety for such a long time. Im worried i wont be the same physically for awhile either.

    Anyways i see the doctor on tuesday, im going back and forth a lot the more i find out info and new info.

  13. #13
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    It wouldn't be bad if you were on subs for three months if you tapered down to a small dose first and held it there. I think that is fine. If someone needs a little longer than 60 days I think that's okay. I just don't see switching from methadone if you're going to stay on subs for a long time. I fail to see where that would help. If you tapered down to 2mg and held it there that wouldn't be bad. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  14. #14
    chelmsley is offline Junior Member
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    Hey guys, just wanted to say im making the plunge, i wussed out initialy after seeing a few horror stories of personal experience. But i decided to go to one of the groups on tuesday and got talked into it. Tuesday morning was my last dose. My doc on tuesday gave me a script for 4 2mg subs and 2 8mg subs. I see him on friday.

    He knew tuesday was my last day and said thursday around noon i should be ok to start the 2mg once in an hour till i feel better drill. The two 8mb subs are for friday, i see him at 4pm but he gave me 2- 8mg for friday morning and night and i'll see him inbetween to re-up.

    Right now its 11am Thursday. Tuesday 9am was my last dose of 20mg Methadone so around 52 hours at Noon today Thursday . Tuesday i ran for a little over 30 minutes on an elliptical with a light workout and wednesday morning i did one last light weight lifting at the gym at about 9am. By 1pm i was starting to feel different however i could be over analyzing myself. i do that,but right now at 50hours since my last meth dose i feel just a little sick. this is definitely the only thing on my mind and its hard for me to think of anything else but physically i just feeling a little tiny bit sick and slight pains with some moderate RLS last night that disappeared this morning.

    Think i'll be ok by 1pm EST to start this?
    Last edited by chelmsley; 07-09-2009 at 10:55 AM.

  15. #15
    intelmetal is offline Senior Member
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    Default Chelmsley

    I started subs at 52 hours after my last dose, and it worked out fine. The next morning I thought I needed more, so I called the doctor ( had to leave message ). 3 hours later she called me back, and by that time I felt fine. So I just told her that I wanted to let her know that everything was great. My point is, don't freak out if you feel like hell all of the sudden, it is just a " WAVE " , and it will go away fairly quickly. Do not take any more than 8mgs a day no matter what !
    You have to trust me on that one, it is important. It will effect your taper if you take any more than the lowest effective dose, in your case it would be 8mgs the first day and 8mgs the second day in a split dose. 4mg a.m. and 4mg p.m. On the 3rd day do the same thing. On the 4th day do 3mg a.m. and 3mg p.m. then let us know how you feel. Remember, you are not supposed to feel HIGH, just normal. Stay in touch.
    IWANTOUT

    to live my life and to be free !

  16. #16
    chelmsley is offline Junior Member
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    Just giving a heads up. Today is Friday and at 7am (EST) i took my first 2mg followed at 8 by another 2 and a little before 9am one more 2mg for a total of 6mg. I feel fine now so i might not take the final one. So i was able to put of taking the pill for about 70hours since my last methadone dose. I feel fine now, pretty damn good. I was starting to feel the wd's as time went on without meth, it wasnt horrible pain that i built it up to be it was manageable i was supposed to take my first sub dose on Thursday 1pm but i wanted to make sure i was fully in withdrawal before taking it i figured the longer i let this ******** drain outta me before i take the subox the less i'll need when i start was my hope.

    I wanted to take them last night at 10pm-1am but i figured that would be bad as i would feel the effects then go to sleep and i would probably want the big 8mg pill in the morning. Thats when i was used to taking my meth and it would be first thing on my mind so i just stuck through the withdrawal one more night. 7am and by 750 i was ok by 830 i was feeling good.

    I want to get back to the gym but probably wont today. I really think the fact that i was taking care of myself a lot better then i ever have been during another withdrawal process really helped me this time. I was drinking so much more fluid, much higher protein diet, and was taking some vitamins and i usually eat these fiber biscuits crunch em up in my coffee i made sure to eat those more along with more fruit then usual. I never got sweaty, just had a mildly upset stomach and no racing heart and i was worried i felt at least semi-good that i wasnt in full withdrawal but at 70hours i figured i was safe to take the first sub.

    i might post a seperate thread just giving my personal experience with this, their are a lot of horror stories out there and while i am just beginning and could be wrong i think that you get extremes on the internet forums people who have strong opinions one way or the next, maybe i'll through my 2cents in.
    Last edited by chelmsley; 07-10-2009 at 08:07 AM.

  17. #17
    intelmetal is offline Senior Member
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    Default Chelmsley

    Good for you ! You did it perfectly, even better then I did ! Try your hardest to stay at 6mgs per day. Don't let your brain trick you into thinking you need more, or that it is OK to do more because the doctor said it was. I think you will do very well. You have an awesome start on this, don't slip !
    IWANTOUT

    to live my life and to be free !

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