[MadisonLeigh]

I am an "accidental addict" so they say. I have been prescribed all different types of pain pills over the last four years due to a back injury from a car accident and scoliosis. Currently I am taking Methadone since nothing else works anymore. I want to quit.I have tried quiting but it is just so hard. What do you do when you finally quit and actually have back pain that OTC meds dont help? My husband is in the same boat as I.We are ready to start a new life and have children.We went to a doctor for Suboxone treatment and the doctor told us that there was no help for us, that Suboxone would not help you to detox from Methadone - only Vicodin...etc? I have looked at many websites - none of which say this. This doctor did not want to help us in any way but felt ok with charging us $240 for the appointment. Our Methadone dose is not very high, only 65mgs per day. I have tried cold turkey but didn't make it. I need help with where to go from here. Does anyone have any advice for us? Is this standard attitude for a doctor to have?

[Cats Meow]

I see that Robert answered your other post and gave you good advice, it's hard for us to second guess why the doctor said that, because he's wrong, of course you can switch from methadone to suboxone, maybe he thinks that since you have scoliosis and pain the methadone is a better choice, since it works better for pain. I think maybe what's going on here is, methadone can be a racket for doctors, keeping patients on it forever, he doesn't want to eventually lose you as a patient if you successfully detox, he has his Mercedes Benz payment to make, methadone is a cash cow for many doctors.
or:
Maybe the doctor you saw isn't licensed to prescribe SubO, it takes special certification, and this guy certainly doesn't appear to know enough about the drug to give you correct advice.

If switching is what you want to do, go see another doctor, you can go to suboxone.com and get a list of doctors in your area certified to treat you.

Good luck
Cats

[Azbowhunter]

Madison,
You can switch from Meth to Sub. I'm a living testimony for i am now on week 3 of subutex and I was on a pretty high daily dose of Methadone. Im functioning at 100% and still tapering. You should do well with a 65mg dose if you switch.
I agree with Cats. It might be that your doctor isn't familiar with it. you do need a specail Dr that is licenced to prescribe it. i found that most of them in my area had a looong waiting list. I ended up going through one of the ads I saw and they got me in almost next day. it was expensive but for me well worth it.

As for facing the back pain. That is something I am going to be facing real soon. There are doctors in my neighborhood that work without pain meds. I have my first appointment next week and I'm curious to how they help people. If someone here on the forum knows, I would sure like some info. Sub has some pain properties which gives us some time to work on it. My pain is still in check to a degree but, Im a little worried about that myself. But I think for me it was the end of the road for me and I need to face the pain. It will be worth it for me for I hated waking up to face downing a ton of pills.

What ever your decision is I know it will be well thought out.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Azbowhunter

Madison,
You can switch from Meth to Sub. I'm a living testimony for i am now on week 3 of subutex and I was on a pretty high daily dose of Methadone. Im functioning at 100% and still tapering. You should do well with a 65mg dose if you switch.
I agree with Cats. It might be that your doctor isn't familiar with it. you do need a specail Dr that is licenced to prescribe it. i found that most of them in my area had a looong waiting list. I ended up going through one of the ads I saw and they got me in almost next day. it was expensive but for me well worth it.

As for facing the back pain. That is something I am going to be facing real soon. There are doctors in my neighborhood that work without pain meds. I have my first appointment next week and I'm curious to how they help people. If someone here on the forum knows, I would sure like some info. Sub has some pain properties which gives us some time to work on it. My pain is still in check to a degree but, Im a little worried about that myself. But I think for me it was the end of the road for me and I need to face the pain. It will be worth it for me for I hated waking up to face downing a ton of pills.

What ever your decision is I know it will be well thought out.

I agree that you will likely do well on suboxone but it is strongly suggested that one be at a 25-30mg dose of methadone prior to switching to buprenorphine. That is a fact. This recommendation is not from me, that comes from the naabt, The National Alliance of Advocates for Buprenorphine Treatment. I would not jump off on suboxone being currently at 65mg of methadone. Certainly people have made the jump to suboxone at a higher dose than 25mg. I would never say that it's impossible to make the transition at a higher level, but it certainly is advised against doing so. Beyond that your actions are obviously up to you and your dr. I would remember what is suggested by the experts especially if I am concerned about W/D symptoms.

[tonnie]

I was on methadone for 3 and a half years ,got to where I hated it!I switched to suboxone with the greatest of ease!! I got my methadone dose down to 25 mgs pretty quick,I was determined to switch over,was put on 2 mgs.per day of suboxone and after no problems switching, in 3 months just stopped taking it.I had no withdrawals what so ever!! I do believe you need to be at a dose of at least 30 mgs of methadone to switch.It has changed my life to the better!No side effects either!Just smooth transition!!! Hope this helps!!

[rxgk1999]

All of you are obviously totally unaware that Suboxone is an addicting opiate. You could get off of Methadone with Oxycontin, Heroin, Suboxone or any other opiate. They are all addicting. What is the point? You will have terrible withdrawal for 2-3 weeks when you try to stop the Suboxone...then what?....even at 1/4 of a milligram. These are the things no one tells you....not even the doctors. If you want to trade one addiction for another...then ok...have fun getting off of Suboxone and the cost of the dr. visits and the prescriptions are very costly. Don't expect to get off any time soon...it is more addicting than a traditional opiate...though not as bad as Methadone withdrawal.

[Cats Meow]

Of course we are aware of that, the point is, SubO users are already addicted or dependent so that argument is moot. Because of its high receptor affinity, supplemental opioids do not readily displace suboxone from the opioid receptors, therefore SubO users can't continue abusing their opioid of choice, and they can take much less Sub then all the OC or whatever they were taking, for heroin users that means no more needles, and that alone is a big step. Yes it is expensive, but probably not any more then the street price they were paying for their dope, it gets their head straight, they have little to no euphoria, and have a much better chance of rehabilitation, then using methadone or trying to quit cold turkey. I believe in cold turkey, but almost no one succeeds by it. I know many sub users don't realize they will still have w/d's when they stop it, but if they taper down right, the w/d's will be much less severe then cold turkey w/d's.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by rxgk1999

All of you are obviously totally unaware that Suboxone is an addicting opiate. You could get off of Methadone with Oxycontin, Heroin, Suboxone or any other opiate. They are all addicting. What is the point? You will have terrible withdrawal for 2-3 weeks when you try to stop the Suboxone...then what?....even at 1/4 of a milligram. These are the things no one tells you....not even the doctors. If you want to trade one addiction for another...then ok...have fun getting off of Suboxone and the cost of the dr. visits and the prescriptions are very costly. Don't expect to get off any time soon...it is more addicting than a traditional opiate...though not as bad as Methadone withdrawal.

It's quite presumptuous to assume no one knows anything about suboxone but yourself. There are lots of people who have been successful getting off opiates with buprenorphine and stopped it successfully as well. One does not have to experience adverse W/D symptoms following suboxone use if the taper is done properly.

[tonnie]

I personally switched from methadone at 20mgs.to 2mgs,1 aday for about 2or 3 mths,and my doctor said just stop,I did stop completely on 2 mgs,and had NO withdrawals!! that is MY truthful experience!Its a plus to want to quit meds.with your whole being and thats probably why it was wonderful to me.

[sexiduck]

everyone just please be careful when calling the doctor's on the suboxone website's list

I called the only one in my area and got an appointment only to find out that his name was put on the list by mistake. very embarressing and i dont want anyone else to have to go through it

[sisterwin2]

Originally Posted by sexiduck

everyone just please be careful when calling the doctor's on the suboxone website's list

I called the only one in my area and got an appointment only to find out that his name was put on the list by mistake. very embarressing and i dont want anyone else to have to go through it

I have more help from this site then the money crabbing md.. I only need him to write the scripts and it worth the money I spend to get that. I am so thankfull for this site. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel for me. I now have to get routed in na. that makes me sad but have too. I plan to look for a meeting after I go sailing today.

God BLess this forum.

[piperlaurie]

Your doctor is wrong. You CAN get off of methadone using Sub--you just have to do it the right way. If you live in southern California, or possibly elsewhere where they have a FDA study using Sub to get people off of opioids--yes even methadone--that's the way to go because it will be free! If not, find a good pain or addiction specialist who is licensed to prescribe Sub then tell him/her what you want to do.

He/she will first get you to get down to 30 mg or below before making the switch to Suboxone. You have to do this because it's almost impossible to have a successful induction to Sub from methadone at the dose you are taking. You will then have to wait minimum 36 hours before switching over to Sub which means, yes, that you will have to go through methadone withdrawal during those 36 hours. If you don't wait the full 36 hours there is a strong likelihood you will have a precipitated withdrawal that is far worse than the withdrawal you will already be going through. (Can't explain the science of it here--it's too involved.)

What I did personally to avoid that 36-hour withdrawal period was switch to an equivalent dose of Vicodin, then took that for 10 days (2 weeks would be better) before getting inducted into Sub. That way I only had to go through 12 hours of withdrawal vs. 36 hours for one simple reason: Vicodin has a short half life. By that I mean it only stays in your system a day vs. methadone which stays for days. In other words, if you stopped taking your methadone dose today, you might not really feel withdrawal symptoms for 3 days vs. Vicodin which you would feel within a day.

Having said, that, it's not easy getting a doctor to prescribe Vicodin for the purpose of withdrawal pain. In fact, it's borderline illegal. So you have to have a sympathetic doctor who knows your goal, wants to help you achieve that goal with the least amount of discomfort which is to prescribe Vicodin in place of methadone for 10 days to 2 weeks. He/She should know the conversion rates and prescribe accordingly. Since I already had underlying pain (the reason I started taking pain meds in the first place) my pain doc did prescribe Vicodin for me for that reason for just the 10 days since he knew I'd be stopping the methadone right away.)

Keep in mind that you have to be at 30 mgs or below for awhile before you make the switch--either from methadone to Vicodin to Sub or directly from methadone to Suboxone.

I am now almost through with my Sub detox and I was on methadone for 10 months at 25 mg (so I was already at the right dose to make the switch.) I am now down to .25 mg .p/day of Sub (equals 1/4 of a 2 mg. pill) and may jump off where I am or taper down even more slowly. I'm getting mixed advice on this this subject so I'm still not sure.

Point is I am almost at the end here so it is clearly doable. Get a good doctor who knows what he is doing and who has SUCCESSFULLY gotten patients off of methadone using Suboxone. It may take some to research it but it's worth it.

If you decide to enroll in the FDA study here is a web site where you can call and get more info. This is one is a UCLA study but they probably can lead you to another study--hopefully near where you live.

http://www.uclaisap.org/html/clinica...ch-center.html

Hope this helps. It will be worth it for you to do this--make being opioid-free your most important goal right now.

piper

[bev49]

I am a "deliberate" addict who has been on methadone for many years. 65 mg. is not a low dose. Not low enough to switch to suboxone at least. The standard wisdom is that you need to be on 30 mg. or below to switch. Then you have to find a doctor who specifically deals with sub. There are lists of doctors on the web. I found doctors on the samsha.gov web sites. Or just do a google search for suboxone doctors. I am in the prrocess of switching from methadone to sub. I have been on methadone for 30 years, got down to 20 mgs. about 3 years ago and the doctor says I am good to go except that I have to spend 72 hours with nothing. I am up to about 58 hours now and its not a picnic but like you, I want off of meth and want it to work. I wish you and your hubby all the luck in the world. Just start coming down off the meth first. It will be too difficult at 65 mgs.

[bev49]

methadone is a cash cow for clinics as well. I live in NYC, starting going to a clinic in 1975 if you can believe that and was not once ever encouraged or was it even suggested that I go down in dose and get off. I am now in my late 50's and so sick of being tied to a clinic. I got down to 20 mgs. for 3 years, and am now on a 72 MISERABLE taking nothing period. I start suboxone tomorrow morning. He said I can take as much as I need up to 32 mgs. I believe. I am hoping and praying it works. I am done supporting the cash cow that is the NYC methadone maintenance clinic system (Although, to be fair, it got me off heroin, to a normal life, job, etc.) But 33 years is just way way too long in my opinion

[bev49]

Methadone to suboxone really does work. As I've said in previous posts, I was a heroin addict in the 1960's and 70's. Got on meth in 1976 and have been on it ever since. There are a zillion meth clinics in NYC where I live and they never tell you to try to get off. I got myself down to 20 mgs. a few years ago and was stable but so sick of being tied to the meth clinic. I thought it was gonna be a life long thing. I started sub with little faith that it would work for someone like me. I went without meth for a full 72 hours, was in withdrawal, but within 20 minutes of my first 8 mgs. dose of sub in the doctors office, I felt fine. I could not believe it. I'm into the 4th day of sub, taking 16 mgs. (2 8's a day). Tomorrow I am going to go down to 12 mgs. (8 in the a.m., 4 in the early evening. Just wanted to let everyone who is afraid to get of methadone know that sub really works. I know it is an addictive drug, but not nearly as addictive as methadone. And being able to go to a doctor's office 1x a month and not a clinic 1x a week is such a plus. I feel free and would advise anyone who wants off meth to give it a try. I know everyone is different and will have a different experience but I can barely believe that after 33 years, I am now off methadone. It's like a miracle.