[Littlebug]

I have been on subutex for over 2 years now. I only took perc's for a few months after surgery about 60mg a day, told my Dr. that I thought I had a problem as I got sick when I quit taking them so I went into detox and went on sub at 4mg and was brought up to 8 for a short time. I went on and off of them for surgeries in the year 2007. I just had another surgery a few weeks ago and was back on pain pills for 2 weeks but felt horrible so I went back onto the sub at 2mg a day sometimes less.

I am also tapering klonipin, I was on xanax and switched to klon a month or so ago and am now down to .125mg in the a.m and .25mg in the pm. I have been so tired and depressed lately. Why am I so tired as of late? is it the benzo taper or the sub dose?
I wake up in the morning kinda squirmy and a bit uncomfortable, not unbearable but not how I would like to feel when I wake up.KWIM

I am a stay at home mom and going through w/d is very hard while taking care of 2 kids. Back in Feb I jumped off of sub at about 2mg and made it 33 days, but couldn't take the horrible anxiety anymore and went back on it.

I hope that Robert reads this, I have read many of your posts, you sound wonderful. After being on sub this long what are my chances of getting off of it with out much discomfort? Following your directions of course. I am taking 1mg in the morning and 1mg or .5mg in the pm can you help me please. I want my life back and want to get off of this ride.

[Littlebug]

As far as comfort meds go I have clonidine .1mg pills, neurontin 300mg and 100mg caps, can get more vistiril if needed. And like I said I am also tapering my benzo. Would rather not use the neurontin if at all possible.


I am just really concerned about the tiredness it has been going on for the past few days, really bad for the last 2. I have been fluctuating my sub dose a bit, from 1.5mg to 2mg a day and am wondering if it's because the past 2 days I have taken 2mg and that is making me more tired? it's weird I thought that sub would give me more energy.

I also tried tapering sub last spring summer before I found the forums and got down to like .25 or .5 mg a day and was in w/d the whole time ( about 2 or 3 months) and did not sleep well, had the runs ,anxiety (why I got on the benzo). Anyway I finally went back up in my dose until I found the boards in Dec and have been fighting to get off of this stuff as painless as possible ever since. I am afraid that I will never get free from this nightmare, I am a big baby when it comes to w/d.

Thanks in advance,
Mimi

[Robert_325]

You should taper your dose by 25% of the dose every four days. If you're at 2mg then start tomorrow at 1.5mg. Stay there four days. Let us know how you're doing. God bless.

[Littlebug]

Thank you Robert, I will let you know how it goes.

[Littlebug]

I have read so many threads on here, and I don't find many long term users like me, or I havn't found them. Have you tapered any long time users off w/ out to much discomfort?

Are there any good long term user taper threads that you could direct me to?

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by mimiluv

I have read so many threads on here, and I don't find many long term users like me, or I havn't found them. Have you tapered any long time users off w/ out to much discomfort?

Are there any good long term user taper threads that you could direct me to?

I've worked with lots of people who've used subs longer than you have. Everyone is different. Reduce the dose by 25% every four days and post your progress. You will receive suggestions based on how you do. If you go along with me I can get you through the taper without too many problems. That's your best bet that I can tell you. God bless.

[Littlebug]

I guess I am just really scared because of how the last 2 attempts ended. I have to admit that the thought of skipping days scares my pants off. But I have to get past the fear if I want to get free from this. Still scared though lol.

I have tried it other ways and it didn't work so I want to try it your way. I can't give up. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger right? Thanks for your help Robert, I'll try to make you proud. Remember I am also tapering my benzo right now. I take .125mg of klonipin in the am and .25mg in the pm, I just dropped from my morning dose a few days ago, so far so good. I just wish I knew if it was that or the sub that is causing my icky feeling in the morning. What would be your advice on this? should I hold off on the benzo for now? or keep going with it.

Thanks again,

[Robert_325]

That is such a small dose of klonopin. I abused benzos over 25 years. The detox from benzos is tougher in my opinion than the opiate detox. I would back off on the klonopin detox until you're a little more comfortable with the subs. You're not going to be able to tell what symptoms are from klonopin and which are from subs. I would get the subs done and then start back on the klonopin. At least wait until the sub detox is going smoothly. God bless.

[Littlebug]

Or do you think it would be wise to leave the sub alone until I am finished w/ the benzo taper as it seems that sub somewhat makes cutting the benzo easier for me anyway. Whatcha think bout that?

[Robert_325]

I think it would be smarter to do the sub taper and then finish the benzo taper. The suboxone does NOT make the benzo taper easier. That makes no sense medically whatsoever. It's your mind messing with you telling you that you want the subs. That's why you want to do the benzos first. I repeat do the sub taper and then finish the benzo afterwards.

You do the benzos first, then start the subs and you'll be wanting to take the goofy benzos while you finish the subs. You'll relapse I promise you. Just finish the subs and then do the klonopin. I do this every day, I know that I'm right. God bless.

[Littlebug]

Thanks Robert, I'll check in soon and let you know how things are going.

[Littlebug]

Hi all, I am sorry I haven't posted in a bit. I have not made a cut in my dose either I am just plain scared after what I went through last time I tried to jump and lasted 33 days of hell. I wake up in the morning feeling bad (w/d like). I don't know if it's from my last benzo drop or sub I don't think it's from the sub, but I really don't know.

I have to find a way to get this fear out of my way so I can move forward in tapering my subutex and everyday I say I am going to make a cut and then I don't. Any idea's on how to stop this, and has anyone else ever gone through something like this? the fear thing. I really want to do this but I keep finding excuses as to this is not a good time blah blah blah ect..... Anyway so I am still at 2mg.

[intelmetal]

This is Intelmetal. I had the same problem as you after reducing from 8mgs to 2mgs over a 3 week period. I had problems at 2mg, 1.5mgs, 1mg, but then I went down to .75mg with no problems at all. I just had to stay at the problem doses a little longer than I expected. Try staying at each dose for 7 days, then reduce 25%. I promise you that it will work. I tried fighting w/ the subs and it was useless. Do as I say and you will be able to reduce without much problems. The mornings are always hard. There is no getting around that. Make sure you get the nutrition and vitamins you need to help w/ your taper. Move around and stay busy, it helps quite a bit. Do not dwell on it, because it only makes it feel worse. Cut the grass, take a walk or run, ride a bike, just do something to keep your mind off the subs. I thought I would never be able to do this as recently as 2 weeks ago !!! Now I am feeling pretty good and I see the end of this nightmare right around the corner. You can do it ! If you have any questions about my routine, just ask, I have lots of tips.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[Littlebug]

Originally Posted by intelmetal

This is Intelmetal. I had the same problem as you after reducing from 8mgs to 2mgs over a 3 week period. I had problems at 2mg, 1.5mgs, 1mg, but then I went down to .75mg with no problems at all. I just had to stay at the problem doses a little longer than I expected. Try staying at each dose for 7 days, then reduce 25%. I promise you that it will work. I tried fighting w/ the subs and it was useless. Do as I say and you will be able to reduce without much problems. The mornings are always hard. There is no getting around that. Make sure you get the nutrition and vitamins you need to help w/ your taper. Move around and stay busy, it helps quite a bit. Do not dwell on it, because it only makes it feel worse. Cut the grass, take a walk or run, ride a bike, just do something to keep your mind off the subs. I thought I would never be able to do this as recently as 2 weeks ago !!! Now I am feeling pretty good and I see the end of this nightmare right around the corner. You can do it ! If you have any questions about my routine, just ask, I have lots of tips.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

Thanks Intelmetal, I would love to hear about your story. How long were you on sub for? I just can' t get my head in the game this time or at least right now, for all the sleepless nights, anxiety ect.. that is ahead of me. I just had surgery a month ago and have a ton of oxy and vikes around, enough to get me almost a month off of sub, and am wondering if that might be a better way to go and then just taper and jump off of them and by that time all the sub will be out of my system and if it was bad, go on to a low dose of Mdone for a few days and be done. Does that sound like a crazy plan??

[intelmetal]

Don't do the METHADONE thing ! I started subs on May 4, 2009 8mgs. I started my taper right away and got down to 2mg really quick. At this point it got hard, but I was determined not to go backwards so I just stretched out each dose for about a week, then drop to 1.5mgs, another week, 1.25mg, another week, 1mg, another week, .75mgs. Today is my first day at .5mgs and it is not so bad. It is 15 hours since I dosed and all I have are the yawns. Tomorrow I will do .5mgs again and see how it goes. I'll probably stay at .5 for 4 full days, then see where I am at from there. If I feel OK, I'll drop to either .35mgs or .25mgs. I personally think you should not do the oxys, vics, and NO METHADONE PLEASE !!! There is nothing worse than methadone, trust me. Been there, done that. Check out my thread for a complete story.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[Littlebug]

Originally Posted by intelmetal

Don't do the METHADONE thing ! I started subs on May 4, 2009 8mgs. I started my taper right away and got down to 2mg really quick. At this point it got hard, but I was determined not to go backwards so I just stretched out each dose for about a week, then drop to 1.5mgs, another week, 1.25mg, another week, 1mg, another week, .75mgs. Today is my first day at .5mgs and it is not so bad. It is 15 hours since I dosed and all I have are the yawns. Tomorrow I will do .5mgs again and see how it goes. I'll probably stay at .5 for 4 full days, then see where I am at from there. If I feel OK, I'll drop to either .35mgs or .25mgs. I personally think you should not do the oxys, vics, and NO METHADONE PLEASE !!! There is nothing worse than methadone, trust me. Been there, done that. Check out my thread for a complete story.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

I wonder about just going to the oxy and vikes and using them to get the sub out of me and then tapering them and jumping. Does anyone know if that would be a easier or better way to go with this. Has anyone ever done it before? (w/out the Mdone) Sub w/d just last FOREVER. I just want off of this ride soooo bad. But the fear is keeping me here, I just don't know what to do. I wake up and feel all icky in my skin and I don't know if it's cuz I am not on enough sub or if it's cuz of my benzo taper.KWIM Maybe I should go back up in my benzo for a bit and see if that makes a difference or not, at least then I would know what it was from. So confusing

[intelmetal]

What type of benzo are you taking, and how much ? It can be a little tricky tapering both subs and benzos at the same time. I am pretty sure Robert did this successfully though. You might want to stop tapering the benzo ( don't go up ) , until you get a handle on the sub taper. Just a thought.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[RubyDean]

That is a terrible idea. Do not go back to oxy's or vic's no matter what. Yes, some people do tapper off their drug of choice, but that is when they decide to do that initially and whole heartedly. If you are on suboxone you just need to to do the taper, and stop making excusues. We all do it, but you need to realize most of the fear is in your mind. The closer you get to being off suboxone is a blessing. Each taper is a success. You simply need to make up your mind that this is what you are doing and do it! No bull****.
A little discomfort never killed anybody, and quite frankly tapering off suboxone is completely realistic and proven by Robert and many others. If am so grateful for these boards and I have learned so much. I too am hesitant and scared at times, but this is what I need to do, so I am trying to get off this drug. Many blessings.

[intelmetal]

Littlebug, RudyDean is right, no oxy or vics, just stick to your subs. Get stable and then taper. You always want to progress even if you get stuck at any given dose. Just never go up, only down and you will eventually be free ! Think about that for a second. FREE !!!
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[Littlebug]

I was on xanax 2mg a day and then tapered down to 1mg and then crossed over to klonipin and now I am down to .125mg am and .25mg pm. I did make the cuts kinda fast and this last one I have felt the most I think. So I guess I need to just stay at this benzo dose and get my head in this to taper the sub, but from my past bad experience w/ doing so I am just afraid of it and to go through it again.

My husband doesn't get this at all and he is not the most calm person in the world he adds to my anxiety soooo much, he is a big stress case. I have a 6 and 8 year old, I am a stay at home mom. My husband thinks that after a week I should be fine and back to my old self grrrrr. I am not blaming this on him, but it makes going through w/d very hard. He just leaves me in the bedroom and doesn't try to help at all, just gets irritated by all he has to do around here while i am sick. I just feel like giving up at times until my kids are older and don't need me so much. But they need me now and I am not the same mom I use to be before sub came into my life.KWIM I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't. Sometimes I feel like going back on the SAO's and then going IP for getting off of the SAO's as it would take less time then going IP to get off of sub. But then I get the ******** from him about having to take time off of work while I go IP, cuz we have no one to watch the kids while I am gone. I called one place and they said if I went back on the SAO"S for 2 to 3 weeks and then came into IP I could get done in about 10 days, but if I came in on sub, I would need to be there for at least 20 to 30 days.

Do you know of anyone who was on sub and went back to SAO's and then went IP.?? I think this would be a better option for me, if I chose to go the IP route. It would be much easier for him to take 10 days off from work, there is no way he could take a month off for me to go IP.

Thanks for the help all, this is a great site. I just sit and read story after story.

[intelmetal]

You are on a very low dose of benzos, leave that alone for now. You did great tapering your benzo use down, but I think it would be best to not go down any further until you get the subs under control or finished completely w/ them. If you keep making progress w/ the sub taper, why go IP ? Just put your mind to it and get the subs tapered down to nothing. It will cost a lot less at low doses of sub compared to IP. Either way, good luck !
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[Littlebug]

Originally Posted by intelmetal

You are on a very low dose of benzos, leave that alone for now. You did great tapering your benzo use down, but I think it would be best to not go down any further until you get the subs under control or finished completely w/ them. If you keep making progress w/ the sub taper, why go IP ? Just put your mind to it and get the subs tapered down to nothing. It will cost a lot less at low doses of sub compared to IP. Either way, good luck !
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

Alright, my fire is starting to burn again. I am going to start tapering again tomorrow. I will go to 1.5mg and stay there for the 4 days and see how I feel. Thanks for giving me back some motivation to get back on track. I don't know what it was that did it, but all of a sudden I just feel my will to do this coming back. I am feeling somewhat excited again to be moving in the right direction. Robert if you haven't given up on me, I am back and feel ready to get moving on this. I can't let fear stand in my way, fear will keep me miserable and right where I am now, ON SUB and hating life. I don't know why but I feel somewhat relieved to be feeling like this again. I don't feel trapped right now, I feel like I can change this and change my life and situation.

[intelmetal]

Believe it or not, I was at 2mgs only a few weeks ago ! The taper happens real fast before you even realize it. I went from 2mgs to 1.5mgs to 1.25mgs to 1mg to .75mgs to .5mgs ( today is my 2nd day at .5mgs ) in just about three weeks after being a little stuck at 2mgs. For some reason it just seems to be getting easier. Keep a positive attitude, it helps a lot ! Make sure you eat healthy foods and do your vitamins/minerals. Excersize a little each day. Keep your mind active and don't dwell on the subs ! You will get better if you keep moving forward, even if you get stuck at a certain dose. Just do not go up on your dose NO MATTER WHAT ! Push through the rough spots, it evens out pretty quick. Don't give in when your feeling weak, just kick its a$$ !
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[Littlebug]

Dropping to 1.5mg today. 1mg am and .5mg pm wish me luck all.


There is no way out but through!

[intelmetal]

I think you have a good plan now ! Remember that this medicine is powerful, it only takes a few crumbs to knock out the withdrawls. The lower I go, the more I am amazed at the actual strength of this stuff. You are going to be fine. If you have ANY problems, come back and talk about them and we will get them resolved.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[Littlebug]

So this is day 2 at 1.5mg a day. So far so good, not that I expected to even feel the cut yet and I may not feel it at all. I feel getting under 1mg is where I am going to start to feel the cuts more so. I am trying to stay positive about this and not think about my past attempts at jumping off of high doses.

I think it's terrible to want to stop taking a medication so bad, but yet you can't just stop it without your body going all comando on you and making you wish you were dead or feeling like road kill.

I just can' t believe how messed up my life has become in such a short amount of time and from a surgery. I never set out taking these meds for fun, but then found when I stopped I got sick so kept taking them as to not get sick. I am not afraid to live sober, I want to live that way. I am afraid of the w/d and the paws after that is over. But I can' t live the rest of my life void of all emotions either, it's not living as far as I am concerned. Sorry I am rambling on here, just gettting some thoughts out of my head I guess.

Thanks for the support Intelmetal it means alot.

[magsj]

Dear Littlebug:

I have been reading your posts and I have been in exactly the same mind-set as you. I started Subs in mid-March and tapered down to 4mg quickly. On my first try to taper down from 4mg I started feeling some withdrawal, not a lot, but I panicked. It had not been very long since I made the switch from Methadone to Subs and went through 27 hours of withdrawal and when I felt just a little of those symptoms again I just stopped dead in my tracks. I have been on 4mg for about 2 months now, not even trying to taper. The fear of withdrawal again just paralyzes me. I have had some pain issues as well and have just been scared to taper. I totally understand the fear!

I also understand feeling like you HAVE to keep functioning at all costs. This was one of the reasons I started taking opiates in the first place, I had been battling chronic depression for 10 years and couldn't keep up anymore and the opiates allowed me to put on that "everything is fine" face and keep going, ignoring some of the causes of the depression, etc. I can't imagine trying to do this with two young children, trying to deal with withdrawal, but feeling like you have to keep everything going and put on your "mommy" face....ugh!

The thing is, we HAVE to take care of ourselves, sometimes we have to put our own physical and mental health first (this is hard for me to do to). Something very good happened to me last week and has given me the motivation to start tapering again also. We can do this, we have to. You are way ahead of me girl. Tomorrow I will go from 4mg to 3mg. I will continue to follow your progress!

I wish you much success....we can do this!

mags

[intelmetal]

Your welcome ! I am glad to help anyone who needs it. I see that mags is also ready to taper. That is great ! You both should stay in touch with each other, as it will help you both. It is always nice to have someone to share your experience with. I wish you both the best of luck !
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[Littlebug]

So much Mag's and IMetal. Mags it's so hard to do this w/ my kids here and this is not my first go of it. I know that they are so sick of mommy saying she is n't feeling good and is crabby blah blah blah and it just breaks my heart to no end. I just want my old self back so badly. I would give anything to wake up tomorrow and this of all just been a bad dream.

Mag's do you have a thread anywhere? I would llike to read your story and give you some support as well.

I have been so depressed lately I just hate it. Should I be feeling this depressed already? I don't know if after the last surgery and reinduction if I inducted back onto enough or not, I haven't felt good since I got back on sub a few weeks ago.(6/19) was when I reinducted at about 2mg after being on perc's of about 60 - 80mg a day. And I have felt so down ever since, like really really bad. I wake up every morning w/ that not comfortable in my skin feeling and anxiety. I hate it, it's not how I want to start my day at all, can't get that sub in my mouth fast enough. ugh

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

You should taper your dose by 25% of the dose every four days. If you're at 2mg then start tomorrow at 1.5mg. Stay there four days. Let us know how you're doing. God bless.

After a 170-200 mg daily hydrocodone habit, I was started last week on Suboxone. I am not really one to "buck orders" and actually want to follow my doc's instruction, but as this is a "Suboxone doctor", one whom I'm not familiar with (nor he familiar with me), I don't feel quite as bad questioning his decisions! He started me on 8 mg tab 3 x daily which by the afternoon, completely sedated me. On the advice of someone on a forum, I bought a pill splitter and have been experimenting...2 tabs a day still seems a little much, but any less than that and I start getting horrible leg cramps. So I am going to stick with 2 for a few days (they are broken up and taken at intervals during the day, not all at once). Another thing this doc told me was that "we would probably treat me with Suboxone for 6 mos. to a year" - which to me is insane. I will not get addicted to this, yet another drug, though I definitely am benefitting from it now. My ideal is 6-8, maybe 10 weeks.

I'm wanting to know if someone can help me through a step-down/taper program, and if my time frame is reasonable. Again, I am completing week one of 16 mg Suboxone daily, split throughout the day, and am having no significant side effects, other than extreme afternoon lethargia. Is it too early to begin a taper, or should I simply concentrate on getting off the opiates befored becoming obsessed with coming off opiate replacements?!