[Robert_325]

You're doing absolutely everything wrong. You only take suboxone twice each day and you're taking 2-3 times as much as you need.

Doesn't sound like you were inducted properly. NO ONE needs that much suboxone, doesn't matter what your dr said he's wrong.

Here is a link for how I suggest using suboxone. We've been pretty successful doing it like this. People who follow this plan are totally clean including the suboxone in 6-8 weeks. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[magsj]

Hi Littlebug:

Glad to hear from you. My child is grown up and getting married on August 1st. I can't imagine trying to get through this with young children. I hope your husband helps out when needed, although it sounds like you are a frustrated with the situation. My husband does pretty good and tries very hard to understand, but not having ever experienced such a thing, I don't think he can quite grasp the the horror of it all, although he has had a front-row seat to it all!

I do have a thread, it is under "Featurned Conditions" and entitlted "MADE IT THROUGH WITHDRAWAL TO SUBOXONE". If you read it you will find that I have suffered from major depression for about 15 years now. It seems to be somewhat treatment resistent and is basically the reason I started taking opiates to excess. I couldn't stand the depression anymore, at that time I had been dealing with it for 10 years and I just thought "I don't care what this does to me, I can't live like this anymore" and, as you know, opiates tend to give us energy and a false sense of happiness, for awhile.

I am no expert at suboxone dosing, but maybe you did start again at too low of a dose. My other thought is, did you discontinue the percocets and wait until you were well into withdrawal again before re-starting the suboxone. I think that it is possible that if you did not wait long enough to be in full withdrawal and started the subs too early, it could make you feel bad for a quite some time. How long did you wait between the percs and re-introducing subs? I dont' know but maybe you need to get stabilized at a little higher dose for a little bit before starting to taper again. This would be a question for Robert. He is back today I think.

Do you know about the dopamine syndrome that one can have after stopping opiates? This can cause a period of depression until your receptors start functioning properly again. If you haven't heard about this, let me know and I'll do my best to explain it to you. I am no expert, but I am an RN and had a little education on the physiology of opiate addiction.

My other thought.......is your husband very educated about all this? Is he willing to learn more about withdrawal and PAWs? Would it be helpful if he talked to someone outside the situation (like a sponsor or drug counselor) who could explain things. Does he read? I could recommend a few articles written by an addiction specialist, an awesome doctor who was an F-18 pilot and got addicted to opiates, he became a physician and has devoted his life to helping others. His name escapes me at the moment but I have his articles and I could send you the website to the articles (oh, I think his name is Dr. Kevin McCauley).

Well, I hope you have a good night and get some sleep. When you get a chance ask Robert about the reinduction dose, etc.

Hugs,

mags

[Littlebug]

today at 1.5mg doing ok. Tomorrow I will go to just 1mg and see how it goes for the 4 days.

Mag's I to have major depression and I guess that's why I liked Opiates too, they did make me feel great at first. But as you know all good things must come to an end.lol I could probably get my husband to read a few articals on what you mentioned. He is not the most sympathetic person in the world, he works very hard and is tired and crabby most of the time and he is sick of me being a waste of space (as am I). He just doesn't understand this at all he just wants it over so I can get back to being myself, yet he doesn't understand what a long road ahead of me I have.

I guess I will keep doing what I am until I hear different from Big R. I know he is busy but I would like to hear from him on how I am doing or any other thoughts he may have on my situation. I guess he will get to me when he can, in his long list of people that he is helping here.

[RubyDean]

Littlebug, I think you are doing great. I really think you will be fine at 1mg, if you feel rough the first day try to make it to the next, it's only 24 hours and we always feel better after our next dose. One day at a time, and we gradually level out and feel better. For me being outside helps a lot. Exercise is great, but also just being in the sun. Everyday after work I take my young daughters for a bike ride and we go to the park. I only take my dose (currently .75) once in the morning and then usually sleep well. Keep up the good work, there are so many good stories going on here, and a handful of us will be completely done very soon. Just take it slow and feel good about yourself. I have to say I feel more fortunate doing this in summertime, because if it was winter I would feel at a disadvantage not being able to soak in the suns rays, and exercise outside. Many blessings.

[Littlebug]

I agree doing this in the summer is best. I suffer from SAD and live in a northern state and always get depressed then anyway. I did go back up to .25mg of klonipin a.m and .25mg in the p.m until I get this sub done w/. I felt more stable on that dose of the benzo. I will not go up any higher than that though. I was splitting my sub dose for a short time, but found I feel better if I take it all in the morning as well. If when I get to the lower doses and it starts affecting my sleep I may start splitting it again. I just like taking it in the morning and not having to think about it again until the next day.KWIM

WTG on being on .75mg that's great. how long have you been on sub for? and what was your starting dose? Just think you're almost free from this mess.

[intelmetal]

Ruby and Littlebug, You are both doing good and that makes me happy. I take great joy in seeing others make progress. I know that you both will reach your goals and be done w/ subs forever ! I am on day 2 at .25mgs, so close but yet so far ( maybe not that far ). I hope to start skipping days soon. That might be a challenge, but I am looking forward to it. I will prevail !!!
Talk to "yall" later.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[Littlebug]

Should I go to 1.25mg tomorrow or 1mg? Thanks in advance.

[RubyDean]

I would suggest 1mg, but that's just me. You can always take a .25 sliver if it is too drastic, but you can do it. Being at 1mg works well for me, very even number, and it was easy to split a pill in half, and then in equal 4th's (1mg) each. In my experience the first day of the taper is the easiest because clearly we still have some in our system from the previous days. To answer your question from before, I have been on subs for 5 months now. I was fortunate enough to have some experience with them from my using days, so i knew the strength of them. I never went to a doc, and get them from friends in recovery. I started on 2mg, and quickly went down to 1mg, and have been on that for a while. I recently started .75, and am doing well. I abused oxy for 8 years, and was IV heroin user for 3. I checked myself into rehab Feb. 6, 2009. I just can't wait for this burden to be over and live life clean and serene. I am grateful to have you good people to help in this. We are all very fortunate. The other folks I know on subs do way too much, and just don't know, understand, or care at times, or so it seems. If I can do this anyone can. The progress is so inspiring. Lovin' it.

[intelmetal]

I tried to drop from 1.5mgs to 1mg and had problems. Not everyone does, but I did, so I went to 1.25mgs for 4 days then dropped to 1mg with no problem. Like Robert said, everyone is different. Dropping from 1.5mgs to 1mg is a 33% reduction. I have had the most success dropping 20-25% until my most recent reduction which was from .5mgs to .25mgs ( 50% reduction ). I am on day 2 at .25mgs and feel some WD's, but am pushing through it. I see my sub doctor tomorrow morning and I can't wait to tell her my dose. She will be blown away ! LOL The last time I saw her ( 1 month ago ) she could not believe that I had tapered so fast. I went from 8mgs to 2mgs in 30 days, now at .25mgs Good Luck to you both ! And if I can help "yall" with anything, just ask.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[RubyDean]

Ya, I had some trouble last night since I have dropped to .75 and I felt the restless feeling in my arms and couldn't sleep well. I almost had to take my dose in the middle of the night, BUT I didn't and managed to sleep some, and took it this morning. I know it's a small hurdle but I feel really good about it. No pain no gain. lol.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Littlebug

today at 1.5mg doing ok. Tomorrow I will go to just 1mg and see how it goes for the 4 days.

Mag's I to have major depression and I guess that's why I liked Opiates too, they did make me feel great at first. But as you know all good things must come to an end.lol I could probably get my husband to read a few articals on what you mentioned. He is not the most sympathetic person in the world, he works very hard and is tired and crabby most of the time and he is sick of me being a waste of space (as am I). He just doesn't understand this at all he just wants it over so I can get back to being myself, yet he doesn't understand what a long road ahead of me I have.

I guess I will keep doing what I am until I hear different from Big R. I know he is busy but I would like to hear from him on how I am doing or any other thoughts he may have on my situation. I guess he will get to me when he can, in his long list of people that he is helping here.

You can go to 1mg. It's a little over the normal 25% reduction but I think you'll do fine there. If you have any problems you can always go back up to 1.25mg.

I've kind of been out of pocket with melinda's illness but I'll check posts each evening, morning or when possible. I'll be back on regular soon. Take care. God bless.

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Hey, Robert:

Just gonna throw this out there, but if you'll actually read my post, I readily admit to being a complete novice at what I am attempting, and though I am sure there is some glory in being the expert that you obviously are, you would better serve being helpful to those who are in this horrible position rather than pointing out "how wrong they're doing everything". I certainly don't need you to tell me I'm doing things wrong, I figured that out on my own, thank you very much. I am attempting a 25% at a time taper until I get to 4 mg, then I will attempt to consult with you for the assistance that I so greatly, and apparently so obviously, need. Perhaps if you have some time off your high horse, you can offer some assistance. If not, I guess the search will go on.

[intelmetal]

Dude, cool out ! Robert may come across a little strong, but this is a serious matter. As far as being on a high horse, Robert............come on !!! He does not expect a thing from anyone and he has helped so many. I would not worry about the petty stuff, and concentrate on getting well. Isn't that the reason we are here in the first place. God Bless You Robert !
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by SmlUGotFrenchs

Hey, Robert:

Just gonna throw this out there, but if you'll actually read my post, I readily admit to being a complete novice at what I am attempting, and though I am sure there is some glory in being the expert that you obviously are, you would better serve being helpful to those who are in this horrible position rather than pointing out "how wrong they're doing everything". I certainly don't need you to tell me I'm doing things wrong, I figured that out on my own, thank you very much. I am attempting a 25% at a time taper until I get to 4 mg, then I will attempt to consult with you for the assistance that I so greatly, and apparently so obviously, need. Perhaps if you have some time off your high horse, you can offer some assistance. If not, I guess the search will go on.

Oh ya ... I get lots of glory doing this. Give me a freakin break.

You think that I have nothing better to do than to listen to your garbage? Get someone else to listen to your whiney nonsense. Go trash talk someone else dude. You start that mess with me and I'm done with you. I owe you nothing. Bite me!

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by SmlUGotFrenchs

Hey, Robert:

Just gonna throw this out there, but if you'll actually read my post, I readily admit to being a complete novice at what I am attempting, and though I am sure there is some glory in being the expert that you obviously are, you would better serve being helpful to those who are in this horrible position rather than pointing out "how wrong they're doing everything". I certainly don't need you to tell me I'm doing things wrong, I figured that out on my own, thank you very much. I am attempting a 25% at a time taper until I get to 4 mg, then I will attempt to consult with you for the assistance that I so greatly, and apparently so obviously, need. Perhaps if you have some time off your high horse, you can offer some assistance. If not, I guess the search will go on.

Then let the search begin ..

[magsj]

Whateveryourname is -

You obviously know nothing about what goes on in this community and you certainly haven't done yourself any favors with that attitude. Very interesting that you chose to bash the very person that you end up wanting to "consult" with later?

I think you just "cut off your nose to spite your face".

mags

[intelmetal]

First of all I want you to know that we truly want to help you ! Your doctor does not have a clue when it comes to inducting a person with your history. You said that your habit was 170-200mgs of short acting pain pills. You are almost not even in need of suboxone treatment at all, but if your doctor thinks so that's fine ( he is the doctor, the one we are suppose to trust ). The fact that he prescribed you 24mgs per day is an outrage in itself. I have seen hundreds of people, with habits 3 times worse then yours induct at 12mgs, but more often at 8mgs. These addicts usually stabilize in 1 week and can begin to taper. YOU ARE ON WAY TO MUCH SUBOXONE, PERIOD ! Also, you do not need to be taking it throughout the day. Twice a day is fine, but 3-4 times a day is totally not required or desired. You should immediately reduce your dose to 12mgs and establish a taper plan tomorrow. This is important if you wish to get off of subs in the near future. Right now, you are on a road to disaster. You should be able to get down to 4mgs in about 2-3 weeks. The choice is yours and we are only trying to stop another horror story. Please keep an open mind and communicate with the people on this forum who are willing to help, myself included. If you want to read my story, find my thread " Intelmetals own thread". I think you might get some motivation and some good real life experience from it. PLEASE let me know if I can help. Good Luck !
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Originally Posted by intelmetal

First of all I want you to know that we truly want to help you ! Your doctor does not have a clue when it comes to inducting a person with your history. You said that your habit was 170-200mgs of short acting pain pills. You are almost not even in need of suboxone treatment at all, but if your doctor thinks so that's fine ( he is the doctor, the one we are suppose to trust ). The fact that he prescribed you 24mgs per day is an outrage in itself. I have seen hundreds of people, with habits 3 times worse then yours induct at 12mgs, but more often at 8mgs. These addicts usually stabilize in 1 week and can begin to taper. YOU ARE ON WAY TO MUCH SUBOXONE, PERIOD ! Also, you do not need to be taking it throughout the day. Twice a day is fine, but 3-4 times a day is totally not required or desired. You should immediately reduce your dose to 12mgs and establish a taper plan tomorrow. This is important if you wish to get off of subs in the near future. Right now, you are on a road to disaster. You should be able to get down to 4mgs in about 2-3 weeks. The choice is yours and we are only trying to stop another horror story. Please keep an open mind and communicate with the people on this forum who are willing to help, myself included. If you want to read my story, find my thread " Intelmetals own thread". I think you might get some motivation and some good real life experience from it. PLEASE let me know if I can help. Good Luck !
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

I recognize my doctor is clueless - I wasn't "bashing" anyone...it's a bit frustrating when you can't even trust a licensed medical doctor to give you the correct advice. I knew if I could manage to listen to enough hatefulness there would be someone on here that would actually desire to help others, thanks, intelmetal.

[RubyDean]

Frenchs, many of us are hurting when we get here, frustrated, and desperate for many reasons. We just need to be careful how we word things. The fact that you said Robert was on his 'high horse' didn't come off well. When in fact he most definitely is not, and just lays out the facts to get folks moving in the right direction. I know it is often hard to admit when we are wrong, but if I was you I would simply apologize and try to move on. He is here to help, and I sincerely think he will help you if you approach it the right way.
I know for me, I would still be abusing my subs had I not talked to him and found this site, not to mention I would most likely be stuck using them for God knows how much longer. We all come here to seek help, it's all about getting to the solution. Stay positive and reap the benefits of the truth that the people here share.

[peanut30]

Originally Posted by Littlebug

Thanks Intelmetal, I would love to hear about your story. How long were you on sub for? I just can' t get my head in the game this time or at least right now, for all the sleepless nights, anxiety ect.. that is ahead of me. I just had surgery a month ago and have a ton of oxy and vikes around, enough to get me almost a month off of sub, and am wondering if that might be a better way to go and then just taper and jump off of them and by that time all the sub will be out of my system and if it was bad, go on to a low dose of Mdone for a few days and be done. Does that sound like a crazy plan??

Littlebug! Please get rid of any opiates you have. Flush them right away if you haven't allready. I have been on subs for 10 months and I am down to 1.5mg today! If you want a smooth ride down just follow Robert's plan. Detoxing off the other opitates will be much much worse than slowly tapering off the subs. Think of it like this. Sub taper is like a seasoned airline pilot coming in for a smooth landing and you feel a little bump but it's not that bad. Then compare coming down off the short acting opiates likeyou have layin aroud to jumping out of a plane without a parachute. which one do you prefer? I know you won't die jumping off using the other pills you have but it's going to be a rough ride. You said your scared out of your pants to withdrawl, then stay on the subs and follow Robert' taper plan. It works.

I'm not a mom but I tought kindergarten for 2 years and I think I got the best mommy training in the world. I loved it when the kids called me mom on accident, it made me feel so loved and now I can't wait to have my own children like you do. Tell me, did you have a problem with pills before you got pregnant or after. I'm not asking if you took them while you were pregnant, I know that's not an option, but I was wondering if after the babies are born if it's hard to say no to the opiates when your having a rough day?

My post is called "the girl and the orange pill" Let's keep tabs on each other. Us chicas need to stick together.

What dose are you at?
What' your next day to taper down?
How long were you on subs again?

Take care,

Pea

[tired2]

Hi littlebug...I have been on opiates and benzo's for over 25 yrs .....I started taking 16 mg of Suboxone mid march and never had a proper induction and when I called my doctor b/c I was getting sick he told me to take more but luckily I found this forum and Robert and refused to increase the dose and asked the doctor to put me on Subutex wish I took for a few days with no more nausea and a lower dose turns out I was one of those people that couldn't take Naloxone which is added so you can not shoot up and since that was not something I did my doctor agreed to give me the Subutex don't get me wrong it is the same nasty drug.....I would seriously just concentrate on getting off the Subs first...I had my rough spots we all do just remember how bad you truly want to be free...I do not recommend stopping the klonopin till you are done it is too much to handle at one time...

I have been off Subs 5 weeks last Sunday....totally Opiate Free and I have no desire to take a pain pills even having them still ...yes I know I need to throw them away but when I stopped taking morph back in rehab over a 1 1/2ago I held on to that 1 pill for 1 1/2 yrs and never wanted to take it I did finally flushed it not really sure why guess it was my reminder what I had to go thru to get off....I did end up back on pills after rehab due to having w/d which they failed to tell you and they will not give you anything so I had left and went back to my doctors and was put back on my meds just no where near as strong as prior to rehab ...

I was on pain meds for chronic pain but I also learned that pain meds can actually make pain worse after taking them for so long ....your pain can be induced by pain meds .....same with Benzo's your body will get use to a certain dose and after time you start to develope w/ds b/c your body needs more and we all know are bodies can only take so much and at some point it will give out ...I still have pain some days worse than other but I have learned to deal with it and excercise truely helps ....I also have suffered from anxiety and depression but I have chosen to work thru it....

I'm working with Robert now on my Benzo taper and looking forward to being totally drug free...
You can do this just stay positive!!!!
Pam