[justaquestion]

Okay - I just dont believe it, but who knows. Please help me if you can.

Several years ago I was on pain medication for my back and neck and a pinched nerve. I was on pain medication for 3 years, and about 1 and a half years ago, I stopped taking pain medication. Of course I expereinced all of the horrible effects of withdrawal. Anyhow -- the point is for a year and a half I have not taken any pain medication.

Recently I was given a bottle of 5 mg percocet from my doctor and it was a prescription of 20. Over the course of 6 days, I took this medication (less than prescribed)

The last pain pill that I took was yesterday morning. Last night I noticed I started feeling really bad. I ended up going to bed. This morning I woke up and I had diareah, bad bone pains, and general weakness all over my body. It feels like a weak form of withdrawal that I experienced 1 and a half years ago when I came off of pain medication.

Am I going through withdrawal? I just dont see how this is possible. I only took 20 medications that were 5 mgs and I took less than the prescribed amount and I only took it for 6 days. All of the research I have done, has indicated that it takes 2 weeks or more and you have to be taking a lot in a day in order to become physically dependent.

Can someone please give me advice because I just need to know what I am in for. Trust me I know it sounds impossible, but it feels like a light form of withdrawal and I am completely accurate in everything that I tell you. 6 days of taking 20 pills of 5mg percocet. I just dont believe it but if any of you have heard of this please let me know. I dont know if this has something to do with that I have been physically dependent on pain medication before or this can just happen in random people. Thanks for your help in advance.

I personally believe the term "once and addict always an addict" applies. I went through the same thing with my "relapse". I think your body "remembers" the addiction and getting hooked again is very easy. If you wish read my story at Veteran Vicodin Addict I went through the same thing.
Best wishes in your recovery and I hope your relapse w/ds are minimal.

[tired2]

It's possiable when I went to rehab they made us watch a movie and it did say that the brain does not forget so when you start using again it will actually remember and want more b/c it doesn't forget...I'm assuming thats true or they wouldn't have shown this to us...hope this helps.

I know it sounds crazy but thats what they told us and it did make since.

[justaquestion]

Thanks for your quick responses. I mean its not severe, its just very uncomfortable. Bone pain, fatigue, diareah. When I went through withdrawal before I could barely move, so this is nothing compared to how I felt. I hear how people explain it on here, but it just doesn't seem like they know the suffering to its fullest compacity because it was just unbearable. I will deal with this I guess and just wait until it goes away. I guess I will not be taking pain medication ever again, because if my body is making my physically dependent this quickly, I would rather just suffer with kidney stones. No way I can go through what I went through before with the pain of suffering from withdrawal. I just hope this goes away quickly because I am not looking forward to feeling like the way I do know for any long period of time. :/ Okay best of wishes to you all.

[Robert_325]

This won't last as long as your w/d lasted originally. It's just the pills trying one last stab at getting you back. RX pain pills are nasty! They never give up on us. Hang in there, it won't last long if you don't use.

I haven't used in a long time, but I wouldn't take a pain pill unless I had NO choice. I had oral surgery after years of being clean and the meds ALMOST made me relapse. God bless.

[justaquestion]

Thanks Robert. I hope it doesn't last long. I wont start on pain meds again. If my body cannot take pain medication for 6 fricken days because of kidney stones without having withdrawals them I am sure as hell not going to take anymore. I will just have to wait for these kidney stones to pass and just suffer through it I guess. I cannot believe I am actually withdrawaling from taking 20 tablets, after not taking anything for an entire year and a half. This is ridiculous. How long do you think this withdrawal will last? I just want it to go away!!!

I dont know how Robert feels regarding what i am about to say but here goes...
I know all about pill addiction at this point and I see how easy it is for me to get hooked again.
With that said if you are in true SEVERE pain like kidney stones I say take the meds you need to get through it.....I can see the collective gasp in here after I said that but to me you have to weigh the positives and negatives. If you are going to spend a week in agony passing stones then take the pills and deal with the w/ds later....there is no need to suffer.
I will be curious to all of your responses to this comment....

[Robert_325]

I think that passing kidney stones with no medication is being pretty freakin hardcore. I don't know that I could do that. I've been cut and shot, but having a stone pass through me THERE is a little more than I care to deal with thankyou. God bless.

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I think that passing kidney stones with no medication is being pretty freakin hardcore. I don't know that I could do that. I've been cut and shot, but having a stone pass through me THERE is a little more than I care to deal with thankyou. God bless.

Robert I agree that is hardcore...I too have been through a lot of pain in my life including my appendix almost rupturing resulting in emergency surgery. There is no way I could stand passing kidney stones without a little pharmacutical help. I would have to think in this case the pain relief takes prescedence over the chance of a relapse.

[magsj]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I think that passing kidney stones with no medication is being pretty freakin hardcore. I don't know that I could do that. I've been cut and shot, but having a stone pass through me THERE is a little more than I care to deal with thankyou. God bless.

Hi Guys-

Ugh, kidney stones are no fun! Kidney stones are ONE thing that I am an expert at...hehehe; worked in Urology for 15+ years. So a little education is in order ) The pain that one experiences from kidneys stones is the results of blockage of urine, not the stone itself. Kidney stones form in the kidney, when stones "drop" out of the kidney into the ureter ( the tube that carries urine from your kidney to your bladder ) it can cause blockage of the flow of urine and this urine backs up into your kidney; it's the pressure and extension of the kidney that causes intense pain. When the stone is in the ureter it can cause intermittent blockage, sometimes blocking the entire flow of urine (thus terrible pain). One can have intermittent pain. As the stone moves down the ureter toward the bladder, it is not the stone itself causing the pain, but the back up of urine. As the stone moves the backup of urine can be released down the ureter and the pain subsides, but then it can get stuck again in the ureter and block the flow of urine again, again causing excrutiating pain. Most kidney stones that a person can pass are too small to even feel as they pass through the urethra (the tube that you urinate through). If the stone is too large it will not pass down the ureter successfully and has to be surgically removed or removed endoscopically with a basket. It all depends on the size of the stone seen on x-ray. A doctor can track the movement of the stone using a simple x-ray most of the time. If the stone is small enough that the doctor thinks it will pass, it's a waiting game with excrutiating intermittent pain. I have seen grown men drop to their knees. The pain is horrible.

Anyway, don't know if this helps you JustAQuestion. I hope that your stone passes quickly! This pain would be HARD to manage without Rx pain medication. I understand your frustration, hard decision.

Take care and congratulations on your sobriety.
mags

[Robert_325]

Thanks for the information Mags. That's good to know. I just know it hurts. Hope you're doing well. God bless.

[magsj]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Thanks for the information Mags. That's good to know. I just know it hurts. Hope you're doing well. God bless.

Hi Robert-

Doing much better. Saw my MD and he ordered a bunch of autoimmune studies, ANA, Rh factor, ESR, test for Sjogren's Syndrome, etc. etc. In the meantime though my pain has vastly improved. My pm doc thought it was at least possible that I might be having a problem with the Naltrexone and switched me to Subutex and I have to say, after that the pain improved. Hope that was the problem. Just waiting for the above results, but I suspect they will be negative.

Since I am feeling much better, need to start tapering; I feel like I can do it now. I am at 4mg. Do ya think I should just start back on the 25% taper program? I do realize that I might have set myself up for a more difficult time, having lingered here at 4mg for for 45 days but I can't let that stop me from finishing this.

Hope all is well with you and M......July 12 is coming fast ) You guys deserve each other (and I mean that in a positive sense...hehehe). Melinda is one of the sweetest, most emphatic persons I have ever had the pleasure of meeting (well, I hope to meet up with you guys during one of our trips), of course I don't have to tell YOU that.

Affectionately,

mags

PS - I didn't mean to hijack you thread JustAQuestion, I hope you are doing better )

[Robert_325]

mags .... it doesn't surprise me at all about the subutex. You've seen how many people I've switched to subutex. Probably about 10-15% of the people I talk to end up doing better on subutex. Naloxone is a nasty drug unless you shoot dope.

I think it would be just fine to do the 25% taper. If you need longer than four days at any level just do it. I don't think the 45 days at 4mg will hurt you with the taper.

I'm glad they are doing the autoimmune tests. Let me know when you get your results. You know that it can take years to properly diagnose autoimmune problems. I was sick for years before I diagnosed myself. That was when I started researching illnesses and drugs.

It blew the rheumatologist away when I told him that I had APS (antiphospholipid syndrome). Lots of rheumatologists have never even seen it before. Then I started having blood clots and they told me I had APS. BIG SHOCK! I laughed at them. Anyway, let me know how you make out.

Thanks for the well wishes. We are both looking forward to July 12. God bless.

[magsj]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Thanks for the information Mags. That's good to know. I just know it hurts. Hope you're doing well. God bless.

Robert-

In my post I meant Melinda was empathetic not emphatic.....O Although emphatic can also apply when it comes to beating addiction!

mags

[justaquestion]

Okay let me get this right. Robert you have kidney stones as well? LOL. Because I originally posted this thread but it appears you replied and said it was hurting you really bad, so I am confused.

Anyhow - to give you all updates, I still have not taken any medication and dont plan to do. My withdrawals are horrible, along with the pain from the stones. I will let you know when it subsides. Just a heads up, if you have taken medication in the past and you get a small script for whatever reason and you think that 2 week rule applies to you, apparently it doesn't. So do not take the pain medication.

I took it for 6 days (only 20 5mg pills) after not taking any medication for 1 1/2 years, and have been withdrawling for a day and a half. UNREAL. I will keep you all posted to let you know when the w/d lets up.

[justaquestion]

LOL not a problem Mags. Best of luck with you

Originally Posted by magsj

Hi Robert-

Doing much better. Saw my MD and he ordered a bunch of autoimmune studies, ANA, Rh factor, ESR, test for Sjogren's Syndrome, etc. etc. In the meantime though my pain has vastly improved. My pm doc thought it was at least possible that I might be having a problem with the Naltrexone and switched me to Subutex and I have to say, after that the pain improved. Hope that was the problem. Just waiting for the above results, but I suspect they will be negative.

Since I am feeling much better, need to start tapering; I feel like I can do it now. I am at 4mg. Do ya think I should just start back on the 25% taper program? I do realize that I might have set myself up for a more difficult time, having lingered here at 4mg for for 45 days but I can't let that stop me from finishing this.

Hope all is well with you and M......July 12 is coming fast ) You guys deserve each other (and I mean that in a positive sense...hehehe). Melinda is one of the sweetest, most emphatic persons I have ever had the pleasure of meeting (well, I hope to meet up with you guys during one of our trips), of course I don't have to tell YOU that.

Affectionately,

mags

PS - I didn't mean to hijack you thread JustAQuestion, I hope you are doing better )

It seems to me that we cannot use this stuff again...when i relapsed I didnt take a high dose nor was I on it for a substantial period of time. Despite that the quantities I was using shot up fast kind of like my body remembered how much I was taking last year and it pushed me back up to that level fast. I think both of us are in store for a life time battle.
You are a tough person to endure kidney stones and w/d's at the same time...I think of myself as a pretty tough ex-military dude but I dont know if I would endure what you are going through, you have my respect and best wishes. You are a strong person and I know you will be successful in your recovery.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

[awiipip1]

What you have done is put your body back into addiction mode.
Once an addict stops doing what it is that they are addicted to whether it is alcohol, or opioid's and they pick up a drink or a pill after all that time the cycle begins again.
If you have more concerns than this and fears, call your doctor.

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Okay - I just dont believe it, but who knows. Please help me if you can.

Several years ago I was on pain medication for my back and neck and a pinched nerve. I was on pain medication for 3 years, and about 1 and a half years ago, I stopped taking pain medication. Of course I expereinced all of the horrible effects of withdrawal. Anyhow -- the point is for a year and a half I have not taken any pain medication.

Recently I was given a bottle of 5 mg percocet from my doctor and it was a prescription of 20. Over the course of 6 days, I took this medication (less than prescribed)

The last pain pill that I took was yesterday morning. Last night I noticed I started feeling really bad. I ended up going to bed. This morning I woke up and I had diareah, bad bone pains, and general weakness all over my body. It feels like a weak form of withdrawal that I experienced 1 and a half years ago when I came off of pain medication.

Am I going through withdrawal? I just dont see how this is possible. I only took 20 medications that were 5 mgs and I took less than the prescribed amount and I only took it for 6 days. All of the research I have done, has indicated that it takes 2 weeks or more and you have to be taking a lot in a day in order to become physically dependent.

Can someone please give me advice because I just need to know what I am in for. Trust me I know it sounds impossible, but it feels like a light form of withdrawal and I am completely accurate in everything that I tell you. 6 days of taking 20 pills of 5mg percocet. I just dont believe it but if any of you have heard of this please let me know. I dont know if this has something to do with that I have been physically dependent on pain medication before or this can just happen in random people. Thanks for your help in advance.

It is true I dont know if my brain/body will ever "resert" from addiction mode. I fear that in the future if I ever need to use opiates for pain relief I will start right away abusing them.
I truly will be an "addict" for good.
Something I will have to deal with forever.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Okay let me get this right. Robert you have kidney stones as well? LOL. Because I originally posted this thread but it appears you replied and said it was hurting you really bad, so I am confused.

Anyhow - to give you all updates, I still have not taken any medication and dont plan to do. My withdrawals are horrible, along with the pain from the stones. I will let you know when it subsides. Just a heads up, if you have taken medication in the past and you get a small script for whatever reason and you think that 2 week rule applies to you, apparently it doesn't. So do not take the pain medication.

I took it for 6 days (only 20 5mg pills) after not taking any medication for 1 1/2 years, and have been withdrawling for a day and a half. UNREAL. I will keep you all posted to let you know when the w/d lets up.

No I don't have kidney stones, but I know lots of people who have been there. I was only sharing the fact that it's a very painful thing to experience. I was only commenting that there ARE situations where pain meds are justified even for an addict. Even in the NA basic text (page 99) it talks about using meds while in recovery. Sometimes it's necessary and we shouldn't feel like we've failed if that happens.

I don't think we should ever take RX opiates again once we have had to go through detox, had a strong dependency to them UNLESS it can't be helped. I recently had oral surgery and the dr tried to get me to take RX pain meds. I refused them as I've gone through what you're experiencing before myself. But there are times when it's justified to use medication, we just have to be very careful.

Our body doesn't understand when we take pain meds. It just knows that it feels good. But we know in our heart if we are using out of necessity or if it's because we're making excuses. You only have to answer to yourself when that situation comes up.

I disagree with the old cliche of "once an addict always an addict." I think that's a crock! Being an addict involves behavior issues not just a dependency to the meds. I am NOT an addict. I abused every drug known to man for almost four decades but I am NOT an addict any longer. I don't think about using drugs, I wouldn't use them even if I could as that would compromise my spiritual growth. That's just me. If someone thinks they are an addict then I suppose they are. God bless.

[groucy]

I thank you for this post. I have had WAY over 70 kidney stones and just learned I had hyperparathyroidism and had that parathyroid out last December. I have taken pain meds on and off for 8 years because of the stones. Never knowing I could become addicted to them...same story as everyone else it seems.

Since the surgery my body is not making the stones but still has to get rid of the stones that are left in the kidney. When the doc did the CAT scan, I wanted to know how many more I'd have to endure and he said there are "clusters" and he couldn't give me a number.

I stopped the pain meds realizing I keep going through w/d until the next stone and back on pain meds. I swear I never knew that it was w/d and not exactly all that bad because I was usually right back on the meds.

Anyway, I decided to stop the meds just May 23 and am doing great. I am praying for no more stones because they are tough and mine are like rocks not sand...I have them to prove it! lol

Again, thanks for this post! This last w/d was so bad I would have rather died (and prayed for it) and I swear I just can't do that again!

[justaquestion]

Robert,

Thank you for all your comments and concerns. And I agree with you Robert, just because you were on pain meds does not mean you are an addict. I feel like NOBODY has replied to me in the proper manner.

The reason I say this is because this all began with me being on pain medication for 3 years. I never ABUSED pain medication I took the pain medication that I was prescribed. When I got OFF the pain medication, that is when I had withdrawals.

Recently I was disagnosed with kidney stones (which STILL have not passed) and was prescribed a bottle of 20 percocets. I took those over a course of 6 days, and that very night when I stopped taking them I began to have PHYSICAL withdrawal's, not MENTAL CRAVINGS (and I am still having them lightly).

Everybody is replying to me like once an addict always an addict and talking about abuse and all of this other stuff.

The whole point of me even starting this thread was to ask is it possible for only taking pain medication for 6 days to have PHYSICAL withdrawals. But everybody instead is replying like having relapses, and having a mental WANT to do pain medication. Let me set this straight people, this is NOT ABOUT me wanting to continue to take medication. This is about a physical feeling I have all over my body for only taking 20 pills over the course of 6 days (which I was supposed to take 1 every four hours) and I only was only taking 1 about every 8 hours. And I was just so confused because I thought it took at least 2 weeks to even have physical withdrawals when you stopped taking the pain medication.

So I have no idea why all these comments are talking about being an addict, having mental wants because this is NOT what this thread is about.

For any people who were on pain medication to the point that when you stopped you had withdrawals. Even if you dont take pain medication for over a year and a half like me, by only taking pain medication for a few days, apparently your body gets physically dependent on them (not mentally dependent) so please be weary of actually taking this prescription.

God bless all and I wish you the best. I will keep you posted for the withdrawls fully subside.

[justaquestion]

I will say a prayer for you. I wish you all the best.

Originally Posted by groucy

I thank you for this post. I have had WAY over 70 kidney stones and just learned I had hyperparathyroidism and had that parathyroid out last December. I have taken pain meds on and off for 8 years because of the stones. Never knowing I could become addicted to them...same story as everyone else it seems.

Since the surgery my body is not making the stones but still has to get rid of the stones that are left in the kidney. When the doc did the CAT scan, I wanted to know how many more I'd have to endure and he said there are "clusters" and he couldn't give me a number.

I stopped the pain meds realizing I keep going through w/d until the next stone and back on pain meds. I swear I never knew that it was w/d and not exactly all that bad because I was usually right back on the meds.

Anyway, I decided to stop the meds just May 23 and am doing great. I am praying for no more stones because they are tough and mine are like rocks not sand...I have them to prove it! lol

Again, thanks for this post! This last w/d was so bad I would have rather died (and prayed for it) and I swear I just can't do that again!

[Freedom4me]

Justaquestion,
I think the withdrawals have made you grouchy, lol. I don't think anyone meant to offend you in any way. Your point is clear. You are not addicted. I think they all stand corrected and I'm not sure they were all talking about you, just about different situations. Remeber that you can have a physical addiction/physical dependency and not a psychological addiction. Hope you feel better soon.

Sorry if you are offended by using the term addict perhaps the better term would be baseline. You said a year and a half ago you were on painkillers for 3 years. Your body got used to the pills back then and it "remembers" a set baseline level that you used to take. When you started on the meds again your body probably returned immediatley to that same baseline. I would imagine with that small amount and short period of time a few days and you should be fine.
Let us know how it went and good luck with your w/d's.

[CEJS60]

Hi there, i also have somewhat a lenghtly bit of experience w/vicodin. I was taking the 5mg w/ tylenol combo on and off for about three years. (2 to 3 tabs per day. Then after seeing him for over a year and a half, he stopped and suddely on one visit....boom, just like that! He told me he would no longer be able to prescribe me with any more vicodin. So, he referred me to a "pain specialist the title of the place he sent me to's name rehab arizona and they do phys. Therp. As well. Dont mean to drone on so but after i started going there, within 2 visits the specialist upped my medication to the 7.5 mg and my back wasnt getting any better, so he increased the dosage???? As far as a possible answer to your query would be that my docter (the new guy) has this form you have to fill out each visit and it asks stuff like do you have any meds left, have you run out of medicine entirely, do you sell or give any of your meds to others, whats your pain range 1-10, have you ever lost or had your prescription stolen. Any way, i know when you try to go off them, the symptoms, according to my dr. Are sweats, vomiting, not being able to sleep, etc.

CEJS60
Let us know how you are doing...
From your post it does not seem like you were on very high doses so perhaps if you quit the w/ds may be minimal, everyone is a little diffrent. One of the signs of addiction is upping the dose to intesify the pain killing effect. Hopefully you are stopping in time to keep these effects to a minimum.
It has been a few days since your post let us know how you are doing.

AFSGTSAM (Veteran Vicodin Addict)