[freshstart]

Ok, here it goes. I have been using Roxi's for about 2 1/2-3 years. I really needed them for shoulder pain that I had. I did the surgery route, then reinjured them playing softball (like a big kid) and decided that it was easier to cope with the issues w/ drugs rather than be out of commission with surgery again. That worked great for the first few months. Not only was the pain gone but so was whatever was aggravating me that minute. Soon, I was taking the pills for pain and anything else that made me uncomfortable in life. Thats when I knew I was in trouble. I wanted out, but I knew there was no "right time" to be sick for days or weeks. I am a father of 2 little precious angels and a wonderful, amazing wife that does more than her share for our family. She is a professional in the medical field so she is well aware of the outcome of the abuse of these meds. Needless to say, she is unaware of my issue and I am deathly afraid to disappoint her. I am in the classic "what did I tell you" situation. Anyway, I have been wanting to get off of these pills and end my dependency for over a year. Ive been hoarding and stock piling suboxone and have about 22 8mg tabs. My insurance is through my wifes job so if I go get professional help, she will find out. I am planning on telling her everything but I want the worst of this behind me first. I feel terrible that my wife and children are not getting the best of me like they deserve. Day after day without fail, I certainly get the best of them. I know im not the person that I was before these pills and I want nothing more than to go back to the way things were. I would trade the pain that I felt in my shoulders for this anyday! I feel like a baby the way I complained about my pain compared to the pain I feel from my addiction. 1000x's worse!
So last night, I decided, was my last day on these pills. Today I woke up, felt ********py and took my first Suboxone. Previously, I had been reading and reading trying to find someone with a similar addicition on here so I could ask them what dosage I would need to get off. Thankfully I found Robert all over this board and I contacted him and told him what I did via email. He told me to post so others could learn from my situation and that made a ton of sense. It would be my pleasure to help ANYONE beat this or at least help them learn one thing from my situation. The lord knows that I need all of the help I can get right now.

So I took an 8mg suboxone around 10am today. I felt ********py still. About 1pm I took another. I definitely dont feel good right now, but Im not throwing up or anything. I am very uncomfortable and feeling restless. Some minor aches, yawning, stuffy-runny nose. Once I told Robert what I did he directed me to the suboxone administration link that explains in great detail the way I should use it. I did it wrong. I did not gradually take 2mg doses to find out my stabilization point. So he suggested that I do not take anymore today or maybe even tomorrow too. That scares me. If I feel like this with the suboxone, what am I going to feel like tomorrow without the subs?

Maybe at some point someone could offer some suggestions to me on what I should do if I start feeling really bad later? I would greatly appreciate that.

Thank you all for your support. I will keep you all posted.

FreshStart

[Freedom4me]

I just posted on your other thread before I read this. I'm so glad you spoke with Robert. Please, please, do exactly what he tells you. He really has a gift of helping and has great knowledge through his own personal experiences about detoxing AND staying clean. I have seen too many people not follow his direction and they are not successful, those who do are. I really admire him. And his fiance Melinda will be here for support for you through this. You can do it. I'll be here for support any time you need if I can be.

[Robert_325]

I can tell you now how you will feel tomorrow. It's not good news. You'll feel like hell. But that's a small price to pay to get this straightened out now and you off on the right foot from day one.

We're going to make you a success story. Just remember that tomorrow when you feel badly. Others will be asking you to share your success in 6-8 weeks if you'll just go along with me. I GUARANTEE IT. All you have to do is follow instructions. God bless.

[brndout]

Hi I honestly couldn't tell you what to do if you feel bad except re induct the right way as soon as you can. I do want to strongly suggest that you do just like Robert says especially when you want to speed up the taper yourself. I started with Robert around the beginning of Feb. after messing up my own induction and creating my own taper based on my zero knowledge of Subs and some other mess ups along the way. My last day of sub was April 18 and I am fine. I'll be glad to talk to you about it anytime . Your lucky to have found Robert when you did and the other people on here are great also. You'll be done soon enough !

[freshstart]

Its already established. In my brief contact with Robert I told him I will listen to him 100%. Im just a little unclear as to how long I cant use any subox for now. I know he said im going to feel bad tomorrow and thats fine, but when do I start up again? Whats the game plan? Like I posted before, its easier for me to feel bad knowing if its only going to last another few hours or so or a half a day, but not knowing kills me. I actualy caught a nap just now for about 2 hrs (probably woke up 20 times) but I do feel a little better. I guess I needed my mind to take a break from telling me that I was going to feel terrible.

I guess my real questions are: How long will you make me wait to start over Robert, without taking anything since 1pm today? and then when its time that we start over, will you have me start with 2mg per hour until stabilization process as per that link about subox? My legs are starting to really hurt now and I have a little discomfort breathing. Just wondering.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by freshstart

Its already established. In my brief contact with Robert I told him I will listen to him 100%. Im just a little unclear as to how long I cant use any subox for now. I know he said im going to feel bad tomorrow and thats fine, but when do I start up again? Whats the game plan? Like I posted before, its easier for me to feel bad knowing if its only going to last another few hours or so or a half a day, but not knowing kills me. I actualy caught a nap just now for about 2 hrs (probably woke up 20 times) but I do feel a little better. I guess I needed my mind to take a break from telling me that I was going to feel terrible.

I guess my real questions are: How long will you make me wait to start over Robert, without taking anything since 1pm today? and then when its time that we start over, will you have me start with 2mg per hour until stabilization process as per that link about subox? My legs are starting to really hurt now and I have a little discomfort breathing. Just wondering.

What does it say about doing the induction on the sub therapy link??? It says to wait until you reach a minimum of a 26 on the COWS worksheet. It may be 24 hours .. it may be 48 hours coming off the subs .. we don't know until we get there. Subs have a long half life. That's why we use the COWS worksheet. I can assure you that it will be over the next day or two. It may be tomorrow but I can't say right now for sure. This is where I need you to participate and be honest with me about how you feel. It won't be long before you'll be ready. Let me know how you're feeling tomorrow. God bless.

[freshstart]

Hello Robert/Everybody. Im about 28 hrs or so since you told me to STOP taking the suboxone. I wouldnt say I feel like death, but I do have the chills, I havent eaten in 2 days (everything I look at turns my stomach) and I have moderate/severe pains in my legs and im very fidgity. I dont how much worse you want me to get before the reinduction period. I know you want me to use the COWS chart but its pretty hard for me to accurately determine some of those symptoms. Should I just stick it out until I just cant bear it any longer since there has been a substantial amount of time thus far? This is rough, although I did know it was coming. Its knowbodys fault but my own so I'll man up the best I can. I just pray that things will get easier as soon as I can start the suboxone again. Even though I screwed up the initial induction, im still 2 days pill free. Does that count as anything as far as the amount of time to get through wd's? Hope so. Please respond as to what and when I should do. Thanks all.

[Robert_325]

We have to use the COWS worksheet to do this properly. I can't see you. I don't know how you're doing. You've got to be tough on yourself and score yourself accurately with the worksheet whether it's difficult or not. Otherwise if you start back on the subs too soon again you'll go right back to feeling like road kill.

I know this isn't fun but it will make your sub therapy work. I won't disappear or let you down but you have to do your part with the COWS worksheet. This is the main problem I have with some people doing this ... they won't follow the COWS worksheet and wait till they get to a 26.

The worksheet is totally self-explanatory. It shows you all the criteria for scoring yourself. If you start the subs again prior to reaching a 26 you're back to square one. You can do this, it's not that difficult. You're talking about being clean the rest of your life after this. Stick it out until there is NO QUESTION that you're at 26 or above. God bless.

[freshstart]

Im going on 33+hrs since I used the suboxone for the first time the WRONG WAY! I pretty much still havent eaten today, serious food aversions, and ive had constant aches and pains but im kind of happy ive had the power to last this long without even thinking about taking another sub yet. As uncomfortable as I am, I sort of have a feeling that Im in for late tonight/early tomorrow.

Too bad it wasnt just going to be like this the whole way through. I would do it cold turkey! Unfortunatly I know better. I am surprised how long one dose of subox has kept me from falling apart but I am aware of the really long halflife they have. Thats why I know this is the calm befroe the storm!

Wish me luck. You guys have been my entire inspiration thus far. And I thank you all from the bottom of my heart!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by freshstart

Im going on 33+hrs since I used the suboxone for the first time the WRONG WAY! I pretty much still havent eaten today, serious food aversions, and ive had constant aches and pains but im kind of happy ive had the power to last this long without even thinking about taking another sub yet. As uncomfortable as I am, I sort of have a feeling that Im in for late tonight/early tomorrow.

Too bad it wasnt just going to be like this the whole way through. I would do it cold turkey! Unfortunatly I know better. I am surprised how long one dose of subox has kept me from falling apart but I am aware of the really long halflife they have. Thats why I know this is the calm befroe the storm!

Wish me luck. You guys have been my entire inspiration thus far. And I thank you all from the bottom of my heart!

The half life of buprenorphine is 36 hours MINIMUM. It's usually longer, even as high as up to 70 hours.

I'm not saying you'll have to wait 70 hours, just saying that your guess about it being morning is very likely accurate. Sorry to bring that news but that is reality most likely. If it was me I would just plan on morning then you don't have to be worrying about it.

Just remember that when we do this induction in the morning you're going to be successful this time. There is NO reason to blow it now. You're too far into this.

You really should make yourself eat something. Doesn't matter what it is, anything at all, anything that you like. You need some food in your body. We are going to get you through this and in another 6-8 weeks you'll be totally clean from everything. Hang in there. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Hey buddy!!!! Where you at this morning? Talk to me. God bless.

[freshstart]

Ok. Last night was hell. Literaly minutes after I posted, I deteriorated quickly. I managed to eat a Bagel and some watemelon and blueberries and I drank a fairly decent amount of applejuice. I hung in as long as I could. In my opinion, I scored around a 24 at around 4am and about 10 mins to 6am, I took my first 2mg pill. About 15 mins later, I fell asleep ubelievably for an hour and a half and when I woke up around 7:30am and took a second 2mg piece. Then I fell back asleep until about 10am today and I woke up feeling better than I did so far. I dont feel as if I need anything else now. Thanks for sticking with me Robert. Did I make it through the worse part yet? Now when and how do I proceed with my medication?

I wond do ANYTHING until I hear from you again. Thank You sooo much Robert.

[Robert_325]

Post back and tell me exactly how you feel. You ended up using 4mg is that correct? You should feel better than you've felt since being in high school. Do you feel that good?

[freshstart]

OK. Honestly I feel about 85%. I think from not eating much the past 2 days, I need to get some nutrition in me and the "fog" will be lifted. Dont get me wrong. I fell "normal" compared to what it feels like being on pills the past almost 3 years. I can get used to this. I definitely dont have any wd's anymore and yes I only took a total of 4mg's. 2mg's at one time and then another 2 mg's the next then i fell asleep literaly with it desolving under my tongue, and I woke up about 4 hrs later feeling like new (well sort of). Is it beneficial that I only needed 4mg's for the long run or the initial dose doesnt matter like in the link you sent me? Please instruct on when I need to dose again and how much.

Thanks Robert. Oh, and I acutaly got through a bowl of cereal and some mega men vitamins this morning. Things are looking up.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by freshstart

OK. Honestly I feel about 85%. I think from not eating much the past 2 days, I need to get some nutrition in me and the "fog" will be lifted. Dont get me wrong. I fell "normal" compared to what it feels like being on pills the past almost 3 years. I can get used to this. I definitely dont have any wd's anymore and yes I only took a total of 4mg's. 2mg's at one time and then another 2 mg's the next then i fell asleep literaly with it desolving under my tongue, and I woke up about 4 hrs later feeling like new (well sort of). Is it beneficial that I only needed 4mg's for the long run or the initial dose doesnt matter like in the link you sent me? Please instruct on when I need to dose again and how much.

Thanks Robert. Oh, and I acutaly got through a bowl of cereal and some mega men vitamins this morning. Things are looking up.

See the difference with doing this in 2mg increments? This is why I wanted to do this with you. You need to take 2mg more. You're not done yet.

I have a reason for what I'm suggesting. You're going to be starting on two doses a day starting tomorrow, the induction actually lasts four days if you read the sub therapy link. Take 2mg more and let me know how you feel in an hour. God bless.

[freshstart]

Thanks for the quick response. I just took 2mg's more and its 12:20pm here in NJ. I wont be able to post for about 2 hrs, I have to run out and take care of some errands real quick. Please look for my post in about 2-3hrs from now and I will let you know how I felt one hour from the time I took my last dose.

It is truly amazing the difference in the way I feel doing it your way. I will be a huge advocate in helping people the way you have helped me. From experience I think people just need to hear how and when they will see the light at the end of the WD tunnel, and then it will make it easier to handle and put up with the wd's.

Couldnt have done it with out you even this far. Thanks for getting me on track. Will post a little later. Please try to get back to me later today. It means the world to me knowing the process ahead of time so everything makes sense as it happens.

Thanks Robert!!! God Bless You!

[Freedom4me]

Fresh,
Don't want to hyjack your thread, just been following and want to tell you great job. Follow Robert through the induction and you will do great. I'll be watching and after your induction will be here for support. You can do this!!!!

[freshstart]

Not at all. I need your support. You feel free to hop in and ask me ANYTHING if you would like. I already feel so happy inside like a prisoner who just escaped! I know I have a long journey ahead of me but the mental thing form me shouldnt be too much of an issue. I wasnt using to get a "high". I was using to not get sick. Keep the high. My kids get me high. My wife gets me high. I am a person who very actively just loves life and these little blue devils kept me from enjoying the things that mattered most to me for a few years. I will use the anger and hostility that I felt during that time as a constant reminder of how nice it is to be free.

Please feel free to communicate on here with me whenever you want. I could use it.

Thank you for caring about me. It means the world to have total strangers actualy care about your well being. Thats what the world is suppposed to be like!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by freshstart

Thanks for the quick response. I just took 2mg's more and its 12:20pm here in NJ. I wont be able to post for about 2 hrs, I have to run out and take care of some errands real quick. Please look for my post in about 2-3hrs from now and I will let you know how I felt one hour from the time I took my last dose.

It is truly amazing the difference in the way I feel doing it your way. I will be a huge advocate in helping people the way you have helped me. From experience I think people just need to hear how and when they will see the light at the end of the WD tunnel, and then it will make it easier to handle and put up with the wd's.

Couldnt have done it with out you even this far. Thanks for getting me on track. Will post a little later. Please try to get back to me later today. It means the world to me knowing the process ahead of time so everything makes sense as it happens.

Thanks Robert!!! God Bless You!

I'll be watching for your post about 3:30 your time. I'm in Houston so it's an hour earlier here.

I'm proud of you for toughing it out until this morning. Obviously you waited long enough this time. See the difference in taking 2mg every hour until you stabilize? That gives each little dose time to make sure it's done what it's supposed to do before taking more. This is why I BEG people to NOT take 8mg at once like so many of the sub professionals ( ) instruct patients to do. The drs who do that honestly don't know any better.

We'll work together closely through the weekend getting you stabilized and determining your lowest effective dose. By Sunday evening you'll be all set and ready to move forward at a level dose for ten days or so. Then you'll start a slow taper down. Doing it short term like that I'll have you through this and totally clean in record time so you can move on with your life.

Continue to follow instructions and you'll do fine. I am confident after seeing you stop taking the subs just like I asked you to do that you'll do well. The first thing here is following instructions and you're obviously capable and willing to do that. I look forward to working with you all the way until you're totally clean. Talk later. God bless.

[freshstart]

Ok. Robert. I just got home. Sorry I didnt post sooner. I've felt great all day! I can smell again! I see colors more vividly. I can pee easy again. (sorry if too graphic). I honestly havent felt this good in years. Again I know its a long road ahead, but I am about the best direction follower your going to deal with ESPECIALLY if your wasting your own time helping me out.

So, is going to be like this the rest of the way or am I in for it at some point? And when, and how much do I take my next dose? Its 7:30pm my time. Hopefully you'll check the board again tonight. I dont want to screw up now!

Thank you so much again for everything. I all ready feel like im getting my life back! AMAZING!

[brndout]

Hi This is Linda and I just finished a taper with Robert .Unfortunatly I didn't begin with him but everything is OK. Just do exactly what Robert asks and everything will work out fine.Don't be in a big rush to finish or it may end up taking longer and most importantly don't pay any attention to the Sub horror stories that I'm sure you've heard of .They do not stay in bad shape if they come in that way , thanks to Robert and some other very helpful people on this forum. You will be done soon. If you have any questions while it's still fresh in my mind ,ask away.

[Freedom4me]

Hi Fresh,
So glad to hear you are feeling good. What a great relief it must be. I did the cold turkey thing and it really sucked... but only for about 4-5 days. Robert didn't think that subs was the right choice for me based on my history. I have read some awesome success stories on this site. You have so much to look forward to in life. I'm so proud of you for making this choice. It really shows what you are made of. Unless you have been there, you really can't understand the hold these pills can get on really, really good people. It gave me great insight and more compassion with all people with substance abuse problems. It also gives me great respect for those who beat it. I know by your posts that you will be one of those. Just take it slow and steady. Robert will keep you relatively pain-free. He is very careful to taper you off so that your body adjusts without discomfort. I think alot of this is going to be a mental thing for you. Not beating yourself up, etc. Keep up the good work and keep posting friend!

[freshstart]

Thank you so much for your support Linda and Freedom. You guys are wonderful. I cant tell you how good it feels already to feel "normal"! I forgot that life is beautiful by itself. Without having to be "high" or in a fog like I was for the past 3 years! My senses are coming back big time and I cant stress how great it feels.

Im just hoping I can communicate with Robert one more time tonight and he can instruct me on when I should take my next dose and how much. I dont want to screw this up after going this far. I wont do anything unless I hear from him I guess. I know i've got this. I am in control and thats the way its going to be.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by freshstart

Thank you so much for your support Linda and Freedom. You guys are wonderful. I cant tell you how good it feels already to feel "normal"! I forgot that life is beautiful by itself. Without having to be "high" or in a fog like I was for the past 3 years! My senses are coming back big time and I cant stress how great it feels.

Im just hoping I can communicate with Robert one more time tonight and he can instruct me on when I should take my next dose and how much. I dont want to screw this up after going this far. I wont do anything unless I hear from him I guess. I know i've got this. I am in control and thats the way its going to be.

Don't worry I'm not going anywhere. I just took a break for a little bit.

I know it's hard to believe but this is what almost always happens when it's done right. You are actually in detox right now but you just don't feel it. You are NOT going to have to go through hell either doing this. That's why you're taking the subs instead of doing a cold turkey. Just go along with me and you'll be fine.

It's been since morning since you took your last dose. Do you still feel great right this minute? Don't allow yourself to feel badly AT ALL. Tell me exactly how you feel right now. I'll be waiting to hear back from you. God bless.

[freshstart]

First off, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for being there for me-always. I cant put into words how much you mean to me for doing this for me!

As far as how I feel, honestly I do still feel great, but I think Im starting to get a slight, (very slight) feeling of that uneasyness in my lower legs. Its definitely not anything that is remotely an issue yet though. How do we proceed as per a time schedule during this period?

[freshstart]

Hi Robert. Ive read a thread that your going to the movies. Just wondering if your still here, can u please advise me how to proceed tonight should I become uncomfortable and need another dose? Do I take 2mg at a time still? Do I go back up to 6mg's. I dont want to screw this up. I'll hold out and check back soon. Thanks again for everything!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by freshstart

First off, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for being there for me-always. I cant put into words how much you mean to me for doing this for me!

As far as how I feel, honestly I do still feel great, but I think Im starting to get a slight, (very slight) feeling of that uneasyness in my lower legs. Its definitely not anything that is remotely an issue yet though. How do we proceed as per a time schedule during this period?

You're very welcome! I'm glad to help you especially when you follow instructions like you're doing. That makes it easy for me.

Your reply to my question is why I wanted you to tell me how you felt. I suspected that you would probably not stabilize entirely on 6mg.

I want you to take 2mg more right now before it gets any later. Remember that the induction takes up to four days. I'm pretty sure we'll have you completely stable by Sunday on two equal doses daily.

In the morning I want you take 4mg when you get up, then plan on taking another 4mg about the time of day you would get off work. We want to get you on a set schedule during the weekend. But talk to me during the afternoon at least and let me know how you're doing.

I go to Sunday Bible study and church on Sunday mornings. We are having a Bar BBQ following services tomorrow so it will be early afternoon when I come in. I'll check on you in the morning before I leave to see if you've posted. Otherwise I'll talk to you when I come in.

You'll be fine I'm sure with the 4mg at once in the morning. Anytime if you have problems (which I would be shocked if you do) let me know immediately. You'll do fine. God bless.

[freshstart]

I cant thank you enough. Its starting to make sense now too. I just took my 2mg (10:30PM) and the legs are starting to become slightly noticeable. Hopefully this will help me till I wake up tomorrow and I'll do EXACTLY as you say and take the 4mg's at once when I wake up and get it together. I wont post until afternoon unless I really need you, but thanks for giving me the comfort of knowing someone is doing this with me and taking control. I would have screwed this up big time by now without you. PLease, do me a favor, Have a great time tomorrow at your Church function, and think of me, its the least I can do for you. Knowing you're having fun will make me feel like its the least I can do to give something back to you. Enjoy and God Bless you Robert!!!

[truckerbob3007]

Originally Posted by freshstart

Ok. Robert. I just got home. Sorry I didnt post sooner. I've felt great all day! I can smell again! I see colors more vividly. I can pee easy again. (sorry if too graphic). I honestly havent felt this good in years. Again I know its a long road ahead, but I am about the best direction follower your going to deal with ESPECIALLY if your wasting your own time helping me out.

So, is going to be like this the rest of the way or am I in for it at some point? And when, and how much do I take my next dose? Its 7:30pm my time. Hopefully you'll check the board again tonight. I dont want to screw up now!

Thank you so much again for everything. I all ready feel like im getting my life back! AMAZING!

Congrats your doing a great thing for yourself !! I have just finished with the suboxone and Robert also helped me...One thing you said really struck me, i had forgotten how hard it became to use the bathroom, i hadn't even remembered that through my whole ordeal, but i do now remember thinking i needed to see a urologist, of course everything is fine and normal now but boy i was worried, anyway keep up the good work

[freshstart]

Thank You Truckerbob! There are a lot of things that happens to our bodys that we do realize because of how messed up we really are. Life is just so much simpler and enjoyable without being all messed up constantly on those pills. They can keep em! Thanks for the kind words and God Bless!