[sikko1zz]

i need help here - my dr didn't tell me anything about the 1/2 life of the drug & the pharmacist also is in the same boat thinking that i need long-term sub treatment - i completely disagree - i was taking 10-15 lorcets a day and used the COWS sheet to start sub - i was taking 2 x 8 mg subs a day and within a month am down to 4 mg (1/4 of 8mg every 12 hrs) every day - the pharmacist says i should taper down every 2 weeks or more - that's when i found this site - i wish i would have come here sooner - i was trying to taper down over the past week to nothing and wow did i feel bad - will you guys please help me with advice on how to rid myself of this new monkey on my back?! i have been lorcet free for about 6 weeks and as i said started w/ 16 mg sub a day and managed to get myself down to 4 mg a day within a month...now what?!

thanks in advance all!!!

edit - i also have some xanax, phenogren, and soma - would any of these help with some of the nausea and anxiety that i'm having - actually, i know it would, but is it safe? the pharmacist said to try valium & that might help - every morning i take a multivitamin, milk thistle, b-complex..a rockstar for energy (& more milk thistle), and finally chug some gatorade - i read some other posts and forgot to add some items - i also have never ever been depressed in my life except for now - i'm so moody w/ my wife, i'm having weird, vivid dreams, and even the leg cramps - sorry to ramble on, i'm just so happy i found this place with so many wonderful people who have been there & done that to offer advice - now...i'm done & will patiently wait for a response - i think i'm going to go ahead & take a 1mg sliver bc i'm still feeling terrible from trying to go from 4mg to 0 in 3 days

[RubyDean]

don't go from 4mg to 0mg in 3 days, or you will be in terrible withdrawal. It takes a long time to get down from 4mg. We suggest you taper by 25% every 4 days. Get stable at 4mg, and then drop to 3mg next week. Once you get to 2mg it gets a little bit more difficult. You really just need to take it slow. You should not need any benzos while on suboxone until you start skipping days, which is a while away. You basically need to get down to .50mg, or even .25mg and it takes a lot of will power and strength. Glad you are trying.

[sikko1zz]

OMG i thought this was going to be a 2 month deal & then done - is sub the best thing to do? i have been on lorcets before and tapered off myself through willpower - this sub thing seems like it's going to take forever - please ease my mind - have i done the right thing by switching to subs as opposed to tapering off lorcets?! how will i cut an 8mg tablet into fractions of mgs? i am scared that i should have just tapered off without these - you guys and gals seem to know what you're talking about, so i'll just stick to your advice - next time i go to the doctor should i get the 2mg subs to be able to cut them down to exact dosages? i just want to get this over ASAP - should i switch back & taper off the lorcets themselves since i've done it before? like i said, i'll trust what you guys and gals say since you're on the other side of this c r ap - i just want my life back - i understand that i have to pay for taking those little green monsters, but like i said, it seems that tapering off before was a shorter journey - please tell me i did the right thing by switching to subs - i just took my 2nd 2mg piece for the day (which will be 5mg for the day since i tried to taper off too quick) - i know from other posts that i need to let my body level off & that's why i felt so bad this am - tomorrow i'm going to go back to 4mg a day & see how i feel - please...please, any advice is coming to open ears

thanks for the response, Ruby - i do appreciate it

[RubyDean]

don't fret, it will be okay. truly. just stick with the 8mg pills. I take a razor blade, and cut them in half, right down the center line of that cross, and then I cut them in hamf again. This gives you 4 accurate quarters, 2mg each. When I get a 2mg quarter, I crush it up and divide into 4 equal .5mg piles. It doesn't matter if you put a piece under your tongue, or pour the powder under your tongue. The important thing is to make the dosages as accurate as possible. Dosing twice a day is fine, as long as you are consistant with the times. Best to do early morning and about 10 hours later. Not too close to bed time tho...Once you are ready taper down 25%, or just round it off at the higher doses. I suggest you go 4mg - 3mg - 2mg - 1.5mg - 1mg - .75mg - .50mg - .25mg, and then start skipping days. You really can be done or very close to done in 2 months if you are very dedicated and excercise, take vitamins, drink tons of water and gatorade. Feeding our bodies healthy, and flushing the toxins out is a major help in this detox/taper process. Those doses above are total doses for the day, so if you dose twice a day, you split those. So right now it seems like you are at 2mg in the morning, and 2mg late afternoon...then you will drop to 1.5mg in the morning, and 1.5mg late afternoon...and so on. You really shouldn't feel much at these drops until you get under 2mg total per day...most of it is just mental. Stay busy, and you will do fine. The sooner you get to the end the easier it is. The longer you stay on them the harder it is, simple as that. Look at this simply as a detoxing tool, and not a replacement drug, and you will do great. All the will.

[sikko1zz]

Thanks again, Ruby!!!

Yesterday I felt so bad & worried that I took some xanax for anxiety from fear - I had to - I also was not accurate w/ my times on Sunday & yesterday I was scared it was hurting my body I felt so bad - I took about 1mg in the am, at 9 - then I took another mg about 4pm since I felt so bad - then I was taking small slivers of quarters, probably totaling 1.5mgs between 3-4 am, and finally 2mg @ 4:30 which made me finally sleep from 6am until now - I'm going to see today if I can get back on track to stabilize @ 4mg per day & try to keep that going for 4-5 days and cut back to 3mg - I guess I have been too aggressive tapering again because I was snappy due to being scared, feeling weird, and just felt very off - we're going out of town this weekend, my 3rd anniversary is today, and I want to feel as close to normal as possible - so should I just try to go for 4mg today w/ a wmg sliver in the eve if I start feeling bad? I don't want to ruin this for my wife - I am the cook in the family & haven't gone to the store or eaten in a cpl days due to feeling so ill & partially panicked sick - thoughts?

I'm going to take my 2mg now, even though I took my last 2mg only 9.5 hrs ago so I can pull myself together enough to go to the store & clean up a bit

I can't thank u enough, really!!!!

[sikko1zz]

sorry - see, i'm still foggy - my math was off - it was only 5-6 hours since my last dose - should i hold off a while longer on my am dose or just go ahead & take 2mg now & 2mg 10 hrs after & see how i'm feeling - i'm going to take a shower & see if anyone has replied - thanks again - i just want to make sure i'm stabilizing correctly so i don't mess up today & in turn, screw up the whole weekend - i guess it's only 2.5 - 3 hours diff if i dose now to get on an am & late afternoon schedule - thanks in advance...again - i'm just really scared - hopefully in 6 weeks - 2 months i'll be able to look back at these posts & be thanking y'all again from the other side

you are awesome!

last ? & it might sound dumb: what should i be eating specifically? just all-around healthy food like chicken, beef, vegetables combined w/ the water & gatorade? or has anyone found anything to be an energy awesomeness blend?

[RubyDean]

it sounds like you definitely need to get stable. I really don't think you will have any problems doing that at 4mg per day. Take 2mg in the morning, and 2mg in the late afternoon. It is okay if you stay close to the same times, just don't change it too drastically. I would just go ahead and start today fresh, and take your 2mg dose if you need to, and 2mg again later. Then tmrw. try to take it in the morning, that way your second dose is not too close to bed. I know when I take a dose late I stay up way too late...just a general rule to help you. Enjoy your anniversary, love your wife, and yourself...things will mellow out, and you will really start to feel better with each taper. Try not to take the xanax unless you really need it. We will make all the excuses in the world to take a benzo, but then we just end up with another bad habit, that is really hard to break. If you can relax your mind, this suboxone is powerful stuff, and will be more than enough to make you feel good through the days ahead. First thing you got to achieve is getting stable, and then start your taper. If, not you will prolong this and the longer you stay on it the more difficult it becomes. Slow and steady always wins the race.
postscript: Just eat as good as you can, and try to lay off the junk junk...you know.
Veggies and fruit work wonders for our body.

[sikko1zz]

thanks again, Ruby - i have been battling it out with my mind games today - i'm not sure how i'll feel tomorrow, but today was easier than yesterday & i'm just going to force myself into 4mg today...PERIOD - i've got 5 more hours or so to go & it feels like an eternity, but like i said, today is slightly more mellow than yesterday - i was nauseated this am & afternoon pretty bad & i'm finally going to try & force some dinner down in a bit after sipping some sprite - i know i should just take things day by day, but i can't stop thinking about thanksgiving & how i'll be then - the family, aside from my wife, does not know & i want to keep it that way - my mom knows, but not her side & i want to keep it that way - again - thanks for the advice and taking the time to read & respond - i now y'all don't get paid for it & that means all the world to me - it shows that this is possible & i'm taking the 'one day down is one day closer' mentality now - i have bought some melatonin, potassium, and magnesium since i read it might help w/ the muscle aches & sleep along w/ my other daily regimen of vitamins & b-complex as stated above - i'm sure it couldn't hurt - the main thing is i'm starting to feel myself getting closer to stable now even 5 hours after only 2mg after messing up yesterday...i think - i hope i'm not speaking too soon since i want to make today as good as possible for my wife

thanks again & wish me luck

[sikko1zz]

ok - another ? - i just took my 2mg 9am dose & after 10 mins, went into the shower - my quarter had already dissolved, but spit was still thick & bittery under my tongue & i accidentally spit - is 10-15 mins enough to get the full dose or should i take a little more since i spit? day 2-2.5 back on 4mg today - starting to feel better last night - enough to force a few bites down - 1st time i ate in 3 days - i know it's terrible, but i couldn't force it down - also, i only got 1.5 hrs sleep & i know that's when the body repairs itself - i think i'm going to try & power nap it - is it safe to take an ambien or even tylenol pm to help go to sleep?

[RubyDean]

i think 10-15 minutes is plenty of time. after which just swallow any spit. i don't ever 'spit' anything out. i am surprised you aren't sleeping a bit more...i know it takes some time, but usually on suboxone we sleep fairly well. i don't know much about ambien, tylenol pm works well for some, it makes me get restless arms and legs, so i don't take it. i do take melatonin sometimes, and it doesn't help me fall asleep, but helps me stay asleep once i do fall...i found it is important when you take it to really kill the lights and try to lay down with your eyes closed. watching tv and waiting for it to happen does not work.
if you find you can't sleep, don't force it. your body will sleep when it is ready...naps are fine, but can be hard to do at times, so if it doesn't work don't get discouraged and just wait till tonight...once you get stable on your regular suboxone dose, you really should start sleeping much better. hang in there...

[sikko1zz]

Ok - thanks again - I was washing my face & had my mouth open when rinsing, so I guess it got 'rinsed' out - I appreciate your help as usual - trying to force down a bagel & gatorade

[sikko1zz]

ok - i guess this will be day 3 on my 4mg a day stabilization b4 i start to taper - i slept in my clothes last night for about 7 hours last night - it felt good to sleep, but i woke up all gross - i could feel the sub coming out of my pores & could actually smell it - so i guess Sunday is the day to go down to 3mg correct? what can help me w/ my appetite? i tried to eat yesterday & got down a tiny bagel, some gummy bears (i know), 64 oz of gatorade & probably 40-50 oz of water - is there any way to just jump off the subs & take 5mg (1/2 a lorcet) each day for a week? i don't think i would have w/d after just one week & know i would not get stuck back on them - i guess i'm just really scared about the tapering and it might be nerves talking, but i want to get this over b4 thanksgiving and at my current schedule, i'm going to be in the thick of this ******** - should i just stay w/ the subs? i actually feel pretty good right now & am about to take my daughter to daycare & drive for a bit to get out of the house - thanks in advance!

[RubyDean]

i think your appetite will start to come back, just like the sleep does...in the meantime you can take suppliment drinks, that are like meals in themselves. eat when you can tho.
i really don't know what to tell you. there is no easy way off opiates. if used correctly, subs can be very useful. it takes time, but if you do it right and taper down it can be helpful. you really need to make up your mind tho. please don't take your drug of choice on and off with the subs tho, unless you want to stay in the vicious cycle. tapering down off loracets will be tuff too, and eventually you will have to bite the bullet and hard core detox for a week...it's all up to you. i would think the path of least resistance would be to continue what you are doing.

[sikko1zz]

hey guys & gals

just wanted to update y'all on what my story is - i stopped the sub last friday am @ 2mg & that evening took a lorcet - i have been taking 3-4 lorcets a day to curb the w/d - when i can't take the leg cramps any longer, i'll take 1 or 1/2 a lorcet - i should be stopped on the lorcets in a few days & will taper off of those in just a cl days - i finally woke up this morning and didn't have to peel myself off the bed or sit down in the shower - i'm taking a whole regimen of vitamins (multi, another multi gelcap, potassium, b-complex, magnesium, and 5-htp) - i'm eating eggs, oatmeal, and stuff like that - no sodas, just gatorade or water - just wanted to update all who have helped me & at least read my story - by the way i'm feeling i should be done in about 5 days - hopefully it'll be a soft landing when i jump off everything after only needing 1 lorcet a day - i don't think the lorcet w/d will be that bad since i have only been taking them for 9 days or so when all's said & done

[sikko1zz]

Ok...so I guess y'all are dissappointed with my method - I woke up this am feeling great w/ no diarrhea & minor leg cramps - the sub fog seems to be 99% gone - my question is this: since I've taken lorcets for only a week now, should I just jump off the lorcets or taper? I don't think I'll have much w/d from a week's use - or should I taper from 4 down to 1/2 decreasing by 1 each day - I went through this a several years ago & just took a 1/2 when I couldn't take the RLS any longer and I had ZERO w/d - should I make a schedule or just listen to my body? I might not even need 4 a day to get through the final stretch - I don't reccommend this method to anyone unless they have willpower - call me crazy (I love the pain of pulling scabs & tattoos) so my point is I'd rather have a low dose lorcet w/d than the drawn out sub route - I rather get kicked in the stomach as opposed to being hit lightly for a longer period of time - PLEASE RESPOND...someone...anyone

[sikko1zz]

sounds great - thanks

[newyorkgal]

I dont think its wise to get off sub by using pain pills. I thinking people find it difficult to advise you how to do it that way because its not the way its done. ALthough you're only on lortabs 9 days you were on the sub before that and that pain pills before that which doesn't leave you in the greatest spot. Better to have toughed out the sub taper. I noted in your thread that fear and anxiety were getting the best of you. I know from my own past addictions, fear and anxiety are the enemy. Good luck with how your doing it! I hope it works out for the best!

[sikko1zz]

i have never had a lorcet w/d as bad as that sub feeling & i've gone c/t from 7-10 x 10/650s a day - i'd rather taper off the lorcets - yesterday i had 4 & today i'm going c/t - i found these great sublingual tablets - you put 4 under your tongue & the rls is gone for at least a 2-4 hours - i was only on sub for 6 weeks prior to switching back - like i said, if i had to do it all over again, i would have just eliminated the subs altogether & tapered off of the lorcets

again - the best RLS relief has been Hylands Restless Legs (sublingual tablets) - it says to take 2-3 every 4 hours or as necessary - i took 4 around 4am and still feel fine - last lori was about 12 hours ago - i better put my seatbelt on - not sure w/d are coming from such a short time - i'm pretty sure the lorcets masked most of the sub w/d as i heard they last 12 days (after taking them 2.5 yrs) & i'm on day 10 after only taking them 6 weeks & lorcets 9 days - keeping the vitamin regimen going - eggs, water, gatorade, toast, bagels, pasta, chicken...you get the idea - good stuff that hopefully will become a habit as well - i'm 32 w/ a 3 year old daughter - it's time to finally step up to the plate, face my fears, conquer this addiction, and be the best husband and dad i can be - wish me luck - i work from home & have access to the internet all day, but for the next 4 days i'm going into 110% work mode to save everything i've worked for & to try to keep my mind off it - if u guys want me to keep somewhat of a journal for future 'cases' i don't mind at all

thanks guys & sorry i was so impatient - just the emotions of all the junk roaming around in my head - that's a work in progress as much as the RLS & other physical symptoms - sorry to ramble

[RubyDean]

sikkolzz, i would get ready with the thomas recipe if you are going cold turkey. i do understand that suboxone is not for everybody, but you should realize that you are going to have to go thru withdrawal here very soon. there is really no way around it. i think what you took sounds like it can definitely help RLS, but i would guess that most of the symptoms were diminished simply because you took 3 lorcets more than anything else.
keep us posted on your progress, and how each day is going. i will be pulling for ya!

[sikko1zz]

i'm just going to do what i did last time & it was a smooth landing - i'm going to go as long as i can w/ the RLS - the diarrhea doesn't bother me, but it's annoying & i stay hydrated - i look at it this way - it was 'packed in there' all 1.5-2 years i was taking lorcets - might as well get it all out

thanks for replying - i thought you guys had given up on me due to my method - so i apologize for the immature remark above - my emotions got the best of me - i'm sorry - glad to see that you're still pulling for me - i'm not going c/t per se, but i'm going to taper as aggressively as i can

also, my doctor wrote me a script for adderall - he said to take it after most of the w/d were over to help the general malaise - one time (in high school) i took a 10mg tablet & i felt like i did a few lines & had to take a valium hours later to be able to sleep - is this guy just a quack or will adderall help with energy short-term (he only gave me 5 x 10mg tabs) - told me to take 1/2 in the am & 1/2 4-6 hours later - obviously not too close to bedtime

[sikko1zz]

i'm such an idiot & thinking eating healthy & trying to keep my mind off things would just do the trick - well finally my stubborn butt started doing exercises in the house (hav to tale care of my daughter) - just doing pushups, squats, and doing the old football drill from high school where u run n place for 30 seconds 7 drop & pop back up - that helps so much - i'm down to taking 1/2 lorcets & only has 2 today (total of 10 mg) - i think i'll jump off tomorrow - i got immodium, but i read somewhere that it's another way for your body to detox & it actually has a very mild opiate in it, so it can be adicting -gatorade, vitamin regimen, and good foods are helping - hopefully i can increase the exercise as it gives me more energy - almost done with this burden & i will never go back to habitual use - only if i pull a muscle or something, in which case i'll be extremely careful & limit myself to 1 if otc doesn't work - thanks to all who have read and added support - y'all are are bunch of real class act people on this site - when i'm on the other side, i'll be more than willing to stay on here to help others in need - thanks again all - i'm almost there - when i get the rls, i'll take 4 of those sublingual restful legs pills & advil - hopefully tomorrow i won't need anything but exercise & good eats - i can't thank y'all enpugh for your support - from 30 lorcets to 2 months of sub use back to lorcet taper, it's been rough but not as rough as expected - we'll see after i jump off tommorow - i'm not setting a schedule, i'm just pushing my body to the limit, then exercise, soak in epsom salts bath for 30 mins, and if that doesn't work, i'll take a 1/2 - but the way i feel today, i thnk i'm down the home stretch - again just an update & a very heartfelt thank you to all of you tough troopers that have beaten this addiction - i'm so so close - y'all are awesome

[sikko1zz]

wow - 300+ views & 2 people replied - i know you're all busy, but as you stated support is key - at any rate i thank RubyDean & NYG for their input - i'm on day 2 after tapering by 1/2 each day (i did it on a calculator taking 1/2 off each day & actually had 5 pills, (10 1/2s left) because i was so hard on myself - i wanted some form of punishment to teach myself a lesson - so i pushed myself pretty...really hard - i just wanted to thank the people who gave me advice & the 300+ that took time to read my story - i admit that it's a complete oxymoron, but i'm...WAS an addict but have strong willpower - quit smoking, nose candy, etc. (everything but needles) after years of abuse cold turkey & never ever went back - only time i miss it is when i see someone smoking in the movise (deniro smoking just makes you want one), but they smell like a** to me now

back to the point, i do not recommend this method to anyone unless you can push yourself to the limit & then an hour or 2 longer - otherwise have someone monitor you & give you your doage - it was kind of the opposite of subs - i was taking 25-30 per day, did sub for 2 months (2 x 8mg like an idiot) & all was well, as documented above, until you get down to those micro-doses - so i actually used sub to lower my tolerance & start the lorcet taper (after a week of debating) - it's the opposite with lorcet/hydro - after the sub, i only needed 5-7 a day to feel comfortable (again, not 100%, but that's to be expected) - i would decrease by 1 or 1/2 or stay the same depending on how i felt - i wasn't torturing myself, but close - i felt like i deserved it - i wanted to make it comfortable enough to go on w/ my life/work/daughter, but i was @ 70% most of the time - then when i got down to 3, i didn't even notice - after taking my last 1/3 a cpl-few days ago, there's still a little 'leaky oil, but NOTHING like c/t potty problems - the rls w/ advil & those hyman's pills are easily withstandable - i'm very new here & don't want to overstep my bounds, but if anybody at all needs help, advice, has ?'s - i will give you my personal email & i'll help you through it - 1.5-2 months ago i was eating 15 in the morning & up to 30 a day & now i'm done - i say that cautiously because the 4th day is always the worst, (and as robert said, 'getting clean is easy, staying clean is harder) but i'm wondering since i stopped after 2 days of taking only 5mgs, that might not be the case - everybody's different - sorry so long winded, but i'm so happy & can already feel the fog being lifted - we'll see how i am in a month after PAWS supposedly goes away - again thanks to everyone & i do not at all mean my 1st sentences about replies to be taken in a derogatory fashion - everyone is here for one reason only: to help addicts regain their life back using up a lot of their own free (double meaning) time to help others - i'm pretty sure i'd be broke by now & asking for $ if it weren't for this site

thanks, all - HERE'S TO STAYING CLEAN!!! you ALL can do it - physical symptoms suck, but it has to do a lot w/ your head - get outside, take a walk, look at the sunshine (it's hot in houston, so i played COD: MW 2 & never thought about my symptoms)

Again, i can't thank you two posters/mentors and 300+ readers enough, you literally saved my life & gave it back - i'll start a new post in a couple weeks or month when i'm officially 100% clean

Y'ALL ARE AWESOME

virtual love to each and every one of you - YOU CAN, WILL, AND HAVE TO DO IT - see you on the other side, brothers & sisters - it's been quite a ride

[RubyDean]

Sikko, sounds like you are doing good. Keep it up! Whatever method gets you clean is a good method in my book. You seemed to have tapered well off the lorcets, and may feel some discomfort and w/d's but you will get through it with the right attitude and hard work. Keep us posted. All the will.

[newyorkgal]

I have to agree with Ruby. Although I criticized your plan in an earlier post, if it worked for you, its great. Now you just have to stay strong, stay focused. You don't want to go through this again. Youre doing good. Keep up the good work

[sikko1zz]

i just reread what i wrote earlier & i think it came out wrong - i was wrong with the time frame - i had been on subs for 2 months, so it would have been 4 months ago that i was up to 30+ a day - i'd have to take 5 pills 3 times right after the other upon waking just to function - i calculated out my taper of how many pills i would need after i figured how many lorcets it would take to control the worst of the sub w/d - as of 2 days ago...I'M DONE - i haven't taken anything & still had 5 lorcets remaining - i'm going to give it a cpl more days (since 4 is supposed to be the hardest) & write back - just wanted y'all to know that i'm done w/ the green monsters & can't wait to live life revolving around my family & not having to check to make sure i have enough pills to last the day, weekend, trip, whatever!!!

just going to keep eating better, taking all my vitamins, & exercising - that's the other positive (aside from quitting opiates) that i'm going to continue to take better of myself & not just eat right, take vitamins, & exercise while detoxing / recovery - why not trade a bad addiction for a good one for a change?!

[melinda7.5]

Hi Sikko
I have not been on the forum much lately,so now that you did all the hard work I just wanted to jump in and say good job...I was addicted to a lot of drugs and I did a taper off of them it was the only way for me at the time.
I had to work so it was easer for me...
anyway you did it and hope your really proud of yourself, you did good...
talk to you later, Melinda

Ruby Dean
I just wanted to add you did a great job at coaching WOW I'm very impressed.
talk to you later, Melinda

[sikko1zz]

thanks, Melinda!

i know recovery is the hardest part, but i think my motivation towards a better life and family will just autopilot through that - i don't mean to sound ignorant or arrogant about it, but i've taken lorcets for a 1-2 year span 3 times over the past 8-10 years - during the 1st 2 times, the max a day i would take was 3 - i was single then w/ no house payment or anything - tapered just fine voluntarily - after moving away for a different job for 3 years i came back to houston to find that this was now the mecca of 'pill mill' pain clinics (i mean they're packed, people come from Arkansas, Nebraska, & Louisiana + i'm sure other states) to get these things - we don't have that central computer system set up yet, so these people will come in carloads & hit up 3-4 clinics & be good for a couple of months, rinse, & repeat - back to my point when i came back w/ a good job, i was @ 3 once again & doing fine, then my job really got good & 3 turned into 30 very quick - after only a few days of that i realized that this had gone too far - i read VERY briefly all the fluff & c**p about how you take sub for a cpl months & stop...BAM, everything's fine - that's when i came here & got the brutal truth about the taper once i tried to come off those - after getting down to 4, i started to post for advice - it was most like the naloxone that was my problem (i even have a subutex script that i never filled) - that's when i decided to lorcet taper because i knew what i was in for the 1st 2 times - add the unknown & weird feelings + being at the tail end of my sub taper during the holidays, it was just impossible - i guess i'd rather get hit in the head with a hammer for a few days than get poked with a nail for 2 months (bad analogy, but it's all i got - all in the past & i do mean ALL in the past - any cravings or thoughts will just be overridden by what my current life and responsibilities require - again, i thank you all & i'll be sticking around to share my novice (somewhat advanced) knowledge about what it takes to get off either sub or lorcet - luckily i never had an urge to try any harder opiates

thanks again

[cheekysod]

hi sikko,
just wanna say you are doing great, i admire your tenacity, and stubbornness to get through this.
good on ya.
keep us informed, that way i know what to expect when i finally do get off subs, which is going to be around christmas.
cheers
cheeky