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Hitting the Reset Button
  1. #1
    longroad9785 is offline Member
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    Default Hitting the Reset Button

    Hey everyone, I'm back.

    Despite not having posted in a few months, I can assure you I've been reading. Its been amazing to see how much help is sought, found and shared here each day. And having two people who literally give themselves to complete strangers each day make a real connection... thats beautiful. And not in the cheesy, general over-use of the word.. its really beauty. Congrats Robert and Melinda !!!!

    Shortly after I kinda of dropped off the radar here, I found myself completely clean. I had managed to stop the Subs, attend NA 1-2 times a week and just generally start to change the course of my life. I got to taste life again as a clean man, and I feel like I owe Robert and the many who helped quit a lot... which makes me feel awful for the next sentence, regardless of whether I should.

    I relapsed.

    I've tried to figure out what happened. Was it something that I hadn't addressed? Was it something that happened at work? Am I stressed, do I have anxiety, am I missing something!? I'm now seeing a therapist to see if I can figure that out. Best guess so far? Anxiety, self-treatment with opiates, etc.

    After 2 months of using again, I stopped. Because of such a short using period, I felt that going immediately back to subs would not only be like shooting a missle launcher at a house-fly, but it could really do a number on my CNS. Cold Turkey didn't work, as hard as I tried, so I found myself back in my Sub doctor's office.

    I'm stabilized at 4mg. Today is my third day back on subs. After stabilizing at 4mg the first day back, the following morning I split the dose.. 2mg at 8am and 2mg at 5pm, and thats where I'm at today.

    My doctor believes that tapering shouldn't happen for me for quite awhile (he said 2-3 months), but I'm hesitant. Frankly, after going through this, I still feel like I have no idea who to listen to. I can't seem to focus on moving forward because I want to analyze what happened the first time and what went wrong, to apply it to the present. But part of me thinks that dwelling on it and constantly looking at it, well, it will just make me lose focus on whats happening now, today.

    What now?

  2. #2
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    Hi longroad
    I'm sorry about the relapse,but it sure is nice to see your name around here again...
    Thank you for the nice things you said about Robert and myself...

    I don't know why sometimes we start taking pills again...but I do like what Robert says about it
    We are addicts we do that sometimes ... Not that it is OK,,but we all screw up...
    and your already trying to fix it so don't beat yourself up.
    I will talk to Robert tonight when he gets home from church...
    Comcast is out in his area until tomorrow...so I will tell him what your plan is and see if he has any suggestions...
    well get this fixed and you will be up and running again
    Talk to you soon, Melinda

  3. #3
    Ken 09 is offline New Member
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    Hi Longroad.

    I am sorry that you relapsed. I hate to hear about that happening to anyone. But you're back, and that's what counts.

    I am on suboxone, and have been clean since the day i started taking them. I am currently on 2x4mg a day. I have been on the medication for 11 months and plan to continue until July of this year. After much thought and consideration I made the commitment to staying on the drug for 16 months. I also receive individual and group therapy from the same facility. I of course mix that in with my own NA meetings, church, family, and lots and lots of talking with my wife. Life is truly grand for me, oh, i have my up/downs just like everyone else but i am always able to keep my problems in perspective by sharing them with one of the many people involved in my life, and thus my recovery. For me, my life IS my recovery. And, for now, suboxone is a part of that recovery.

    I certainly don't believe in using subs indefinitely, or relying upon them solely, But I do think that most people could benefit more and reduce their chances of relapsing by staying on them for longer than what is generally suggested here in this forum. You might want to consider staying on the subs for a longer period this time around, say 3-6 months. During which time you can get back to meetings (or whatever your thing is) and get your life back on the straight and narrow. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking suboxone for long, or for at least longer periods of time. Taking suboxone for the treatment of opiate addiction is the same as taking any other drug for disease treatment. Also, you're just as clean taking them as you are taking anything else prescribed for the treatment of any other disease.

    Good luck to you, and to all who seek recovery.

    Ken

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken 09 View Post
    Hi Longroad.

    I am sorry that you relapsed. I hate to hear about that happening to anyone. But you're back, and that's what counts.

    I am on suboxone, and have been clean since the day i started taking them. I am currently on 2x4mg a day. I have been on the medication for 11 months and plan to continue until July of this year. After much thought and consideration I made the commitment to staying on the drug for 16 months. I also receive individual and group therapy from the same facility. I of course mix that in with my own NA meetings, church, family, and lots and lots of talking with my wife. Life is truly grand for me, oh, i have my up/downs just like everyone else but i am always able to keep my problems in perspective by sharing them with one of the many people involved in my life, and thus my recovery. For me, my life IS my recovery. And, for now, suboxone is a part of that recovery.

    I certainly don't believe in using subs indefinitely, or relying upon them solely, But I do think that most people could benefit more and reduce their chances of relapsing by staying on them for longer than what is generally suggested here in this forum. You might want to consider staying on the subs for a longer period this time around, say 3-6 months. During which time you can get back to meetings (or whatever your thing is) and get your life back on the straight and narrow. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking suboxone for long, or for at least longer periods of time. Taking suboxone for the treatment of opiate addiction is the same as taking any other drug for disease treatment. Also, you're just as clean taking them as you are taking anything else prescribed for the treatment of any other disease.

    Good luck to you, and to all who seek recovery.

    Ken
    Hi ken
    I'm sorry to rain on your parade but I have heard of nightmare stories about people staying on subs that long...
    The sub med are still an opiate a very strong one
    You really should get a taper plan in order...we have a couple guys here that could help you do that its Robert or musicman...
    Talk to you soon,Melinda

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi longroad
    I'm sorry about the relapse,but it sure is nice to see your name around here again...
    Thank you for the nice things you said about Robert and myself...

    I don't know why sometimes we start taking pills again...but I do like what Robert says about it
    We are addicts we do that sometimes ... Not that it is OK,,but we all screw up...
    and your already trying to fix it so don't beat yourself up.
    I will talk to Robert tonight when he gets home from church...
    Comcast is out in his area until tomorrow...so I will tell him what your plan is and see if he has any suggestions...
    well get this fixed and you will be up and running again
    Talk to you soon, Melinda
    Hi longroad
    Robert wanted me to tell you he will be back today and he will talk to you then...
    Hope all is well, Melinda

  6. #6
    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by longroad9785 View Post
    Hey everyone, I'm back.

    Despite not having posted in a few months, I can assure you I've been reading. Its been amazing to see how much help is sought, found and shared here each day. And having two people who literally give themselves to complete strangers each day make a real connection... thats beautiful. And not in the cheesy, general over-use of the word.. its really beauty. Congrats Robert and Melinda !!!!

    Shortly after I kinda of dropped off the radar here, I found myself completely clean. I had managed to stop the Subs, attend NA 1-2 times a week and just generally start to change the course of my life. I got to taste life again as a clean man, and I feel like I owe Robert and the many who helped quit a lot... which makes me feel awful for the next sentence, regardless of whether I should.

    I relapsed.

    I've tried to figure out what happened. Was it something that I hadn't addressed? Was it something that happened at work? Am I stressed, do I have anxiety, am I missing something!? I'm now seeing a therapist to see if I can figure that out. Best guess so far? Anxiety, self-treatment with opiates, etc.

    After 2 months of using again, I stopped. Because of such a short using period, I felt that going immediately back to subs would not only be like shooting a missle launcher at a house-fly, but it could really do a number on my CNS. Cold Turkey didn't work, as hard as I tried, so I found myself back in my Sub doctor's office.

    I'm stabilized at 4mg. Today is my third day back on subs. After stabilizing at 4mg the first day back, the following morning I split the dose.. 2mg at 8am and 2mg at 5pm, and thats where I'm at today.

    My doctor believes that tapering shouldn't happen for me for quite awhile (he said 2-3 months), but I'm hesitant. Frankly, after going through this, I still feel like I have no idea who to listen to. I can't seem to focus on moving forward because I want to analyze what happened the first time and what went wrong, to apply it to the present. But part of me thinks that dwelling on it and constantly looking at it, well, it will just make me lose focus on whats happening now, today.

    What now?
    Almost everyone relapses.That is all part of the process for a lot of people..The main thing is that you are trying again.Most people will tell you they relapsed several times before they actually remained clean for a while.Relapsing is just around the corner for a lot of us here.You just start over and try again.It is your only choice.Stay on your current dose of suboxone for a couple weeks and taper off is my advice.Robert will agree with me that long term use of sub is better than dying from overdosing or the lifestyle associated with getting pills.However just remember that the longer you stay on sub the harder it is to get off sub without the bad side effects...etc.Your Dr is recommending 2 or 3 months.At least he is not recommending 2 or 3 years.Robert will be along soon but I just wanted to say that if "you" feel you need to stay on suboxone for 2 months it will not be too hard to taper off.I suggest you go with your gut feeling.Congrats on trying again.This could have been much worse.You know that.

  7. #7
    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken 09 View Post
    Hi Longroad.

    I am sorry that you relapsed. I hate to hear about that happening to anyone. But you're back, and that's what counts.

    I am on suboxone, and have been clean since the day i started taking them. I am currently on 2x4mg a day. I have been on the medication for 11 months and plan to continue until July of this year. After much thought and consideration I made the commitment to staying on the drug for 16 months. I also receive individual and group therapy from the same facility. I of course mix that in with my own NA meetings, church, family, and lots and lots of talking with my wife. Life is truly grand for me, oh, i have my up/downs just like everyone else but i am always able to keep my problems in perspective by sharing them with one of the many people involved in my life, and thus my recovery. For me, my life IS my recovery. And, for now, suboxone is a part of that recovery.

    I certainly don't believe in using subs indefinitely, or relying upon them solely, But I do think that most people could benefit more and reduce their chances of relapsing by staying on them for longer than what is generally suggested here in this forum. You might want to consider staying on the subs for a longer period this time around, say 3-6 months. During which time you can get back to meetings (or whatever your thing is) and get your life back on the straight and narrow. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking suboxone for long, or for at least longer periods of time. Taking suboxone for the treatment of opiate addiction is the same as taking any other drug for disease treatment. Also, you're just as clean taking them as you are taking anything else prescribed for the treatment of any other disease.

    Good luck to you, and to all who seek recovery.

    Ken
    Ken,with all due respect. I suggest you read some of the posts here by people who have used suboxone long term.The fact is you are going to have a difficult time in July.Using sub long term is better than dying from overdosing etc but is only needed in a few severe cases . We suggest using suboxone for detoxing only with a heavy emphasis on support as you have mentioned. The detox phase also allows a person to get acqainted with the aspect of getting clean and to prepare ones self for sobriety..When I say "we" I mean a few of us on this forum.We do not speak on behalf of Drugs.com.This is an opinion shared by many on this forum.You stated "I am on suboxone, and have been clean since the day i started taking them." .......Not really....Good luck to you and if you need help come July we will be glad to help you.MM
    Last edited by musicman48; 03-05-2009 at 10:18 AM.

  8. #8
    Ken 09 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi ken
    I'm sorry to rain on your parade but I have heard of nightmare stories about people staying on subs that long...
    The sub med are still an opiate a very strong one
    You really should get a taper plan in order...we have a couple guys here that could help you do that its Robert or musicman...
    Talk to you soon,Melinda
    Hi Melinda.

    Not to worry, you're not raining on my parade in the least bit. My life is truly great. I have not one single complete as far as my recovery is concerned. You can consider my story a complete success. So now when you give folks advice you can tell them about me and how successful I am on suboxone. As a matter of fact I belong to a group of people who have been on suboxone for varying lengths of time and we are all quite successful, in both are private and professional lives. Not one relapse in over ten months. For me, a nightmare story would involve a relapse, something i cant afford to let happen. I am not the type addict that can pick up and bounce right back. When im out, im out, it could be years before i get back, and thats IF i get back. And in the mean time, i would lose my house, my job, and all the material things, but most importantly i would lose my family and friends, and of course my my wife. And i would most likely end up in a prison cell where i would remain for many years. But you didnt bother to find this information out about me before you suggested that i might be one of those nightmare stories you "heard" about.

    The thread was not about me, it was about another person and I was relating my own personal experience in offering advice. Maybe you shouldn't look upon every thread as an opportunity to advance, promote, or promulgate your own personal feelings or beliefs.

    I realize your trying to be helpful, but you were totally out of line by insinuating that mine might but anything but a success story, and I was offended by your comments. It sounds as if you didn't read anything I said about how well my recovery was going, or maybe you couldn't hear anything after you read the part about me being on suboxone for a period longer than you think is beneficial. Either way, your offer of help (as if my life is in peril),after I made the glowing declaration on the merits and the way I stay clean, is not only an obvious testament to your narrow views, it was at the very least, disrespectful, and thus by its nature, not genuine. It was as if you totally tried to negate what I had stated by insulating and suggesting that my treatment plan is detrimental to my health when in fact it is the best thing that I have ever done for myself. And that you make that assessment without even knowing not one single solitary (apart of course from all the positive things I mentioned) is totally mind blowing.

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken 09; 03-05-2009 at 10:59 AM. Reason: to personal for the board

  9. #9
    Ken 09 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman48 View Post
    "I am on suboxone, and have been clean since the day i started taking them." .......Not really....
    Wow, why would you suggest that my sobriety is not genuine. Because the members of group (NA) support me totally. I am hurt that i would not get the same support here. I am clean, and for you to say that i am not is totally out of line. To thy own self be true. It is not up to me, you, or anyone else to say whether someone is an addict or of they are clean or not. I take my medication as prescribed, (and that's quite less than suggested) there are no addictive behaviors associated with it all. I realize that you are trying to help and i appreciate and thank you for that but you must have realized that i might have already struggled through this issue and it was insensitive for you to make that comment regardless of your own personal beliefs. By saying that, where you really trying to help me?

  10. #10
    Ken 09 is offline New Member
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    Default Sorry for ranting.

    Melinda, Sorry i went off on you. I realize that you and the rest are trying to help. And i realize the difficulties associated with long term sub use. I did in fact struggle with that before i made the decision to go on for such a long period of time. I wont get in to my history but for me it was really the only safe way for me to precede. I now the longer duration of time on the medication will make it more difficult to taper, but it was the trade off that i had to make. And for some, i believe it is still a better option. So, with that said, come this summer, i look forward to receiving as much help from as many resources as possible, this board included.

    I have to go, i really need to get some work done.

    Ken

    " Love is the highest and most ultimate goal to which man can aspire"

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=Ken 09;227485]Melinda, Sorry i went off on you. I realize that you and the rest are trying to help. And i realize the difficulties associated with long term sub use. I did in fact struggle with that before i made the decision to go on for such a long period of time. I wont get in to my history but for me it was really the only safe way for me to precede. I now the longer duration of time on the medication will make it more difficult to taper, but it was the trade off that i had to make. And for some, i believe it is still a better option. So, with that said, come this summer, i look forward to receiving as much help from as many resources as possible, this board included.

    I have to go, i really need to get some work done.

    Hi Ken
    I never meant to insult you...It just sounded like you were promoting long term sub use and I have seen people have a hard time coming off of them.
    I really am very happy that you have been helped with the sub meds...
    Robert and Musicman are great with helping people get off of them so when your ready come back and see us.

    Hope you had a good day
    Melinda

  12. #12
    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken 09 View Post
    Wow, why would you suggest that my sobriety is not genuine. Because the members of group (NA) support me totally. I am hurt that i would not get the same support here. I am clean, and for you to say that i am not is totally out of line. To thy own self be true. It is not up to me, you, or anyone else to say whether someone is an addict or of they are clean or not. I take my medication as prescribed, (and that's quite less than suggested) there are no addictive behaviors associated with it all. I realize that you are trying to help and i appreciate and thank you for that but you must have realized that i might have already struggled through this issue and it was insensitive for you to make that comment regardless of your own personal beliefs. By saying that, where you really trying to help me?
    Ken,I am an advocate of suboxone therapy.It is much better than the lifestyle associated with getting pills etc.You will understand when you get off the suboxone what I am talking about.Suboxone is a semi synthetic opioid.It is a great tool to get off of pain pills.I know that you are not getting "high" etc.Just understand that you are still taking a strong opioid drug.Those are not my personal beliefs about suboxone.These are facts.Once you are off the sub you will feel different.You will know what feeling really clean is all about.It feels great.Let us know when you are ready to taper and we will be here to help you.Good luck.MM

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    longroad9785 is offline Member
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    After a couple meetings with my doctor and therapist, they've decided to try me out on paxil. Is there any problem with mixing Paxil and Subs?

    Most conversations with my doctors end up leading to discussions about anxiety, the possibility that my addiction to opiates stems from me wanting to self-treat the problem.

    Nonetheless NA is still my "rock" so-to-speak. I think, so far, it was a major missing piece from my previous treatment.

  14. #14
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by longroad9785 View Post
    After a couple meetings with my doctor and therapist, they've decided to try me out on paxil. Is there any problem with mixing Paxil and Subs?

    Most conversations with my doctors end up leading to discussions about anxiety, the possibility that my addiction to opiates stems from me wanting to self-treat the problem.

    Nonetheless NA is still my "rock" so-to-speak. I think, so far, it was a major missing piece from my previous treatment.



    Hi longroad .... was wondering how you were doing. To be honest I was kind of afraid when you originally stabilized at so low a dose but stayed on the subs for so long. Regardless of any suggestions you may have received here whatever my opinion means it's still to use it short term in your case at least. You just slipped up, had nothing to do with you not using subs long enough. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Default Ken09

    You are being extremely defensive attacking two people here who spend several hours of their days donating time for nothing but because they care about helping people. The advice that melinda and musicman gave is correct.

    It's great that your life has changed, I'm sincerely happy for you, but when the time comes that you decide to get off suboxone if that time ever comes you will pay the price for your decisions. That is a fact. I hope you allow me to help you taper down so you won't suffer badly when the time comes.

    I am probably the biggest sub advocate on this forum. But the fact is that it is still an opiate and while we are better off on subs than engaging in illegal activities to obtain our "drugs of choice" you aren't really clean until you're off the subs too. That is also a fact whether you "feel" clean or not. You are still taking RX opiates daily. That isn't being clean IF THAT IS YOUR OBJECTIVE. As musicman pointed out you'll feel differently as you grow in this process hopefully. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    money_chick is offline Member
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    [QUOTE=Robert_325;228214

    I am probably the biggest sub advocate on this forum. But the fact is that it is still an opiate and while we are better off on subs than engaging in illegal activities to obtain our "drugs of choice" you aren't really clean until you're off the subs too. That is also a fact whether you "feel" clean or not. You are still taking RX opiates daily. That isn't being clean IF THAT IS YOUR OBJECTIVE. As musicman pointed out you'll feel differently as you grow in this process hopefully. God bless. [/QUOTE]

    I'm shocked to see you say this.... only a few months back you and I both jumped all over Sister for that very statement, so I guess I will styand alone and say what I said to her...

    "How can you say that?!"


    God knows I know relapse, do I not. And even you have to agree that for people like me, longer term sub use may be just what I need. You have said it yourself.

    As for Ken, who knows what makes him any different from me? Perhaps, like me, relapse is an all the time occurence, something he just can't escape. I know for myself at this point, I would take a daily dose of sub over this cliff I stand on the edge of 24 hours a day, every single effin' day.
    And if I wasn't high, calling dealers or stealing, I would certainly consider myself clean.

    And anyone who said otherwise could kiss my sweet A$$.

  17. #17
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by money_chick View Post
    I'm shocked to see you say this.... only a few months back you and I both jumped all over Sister for that very statement, so I guess I will styand alone and say what I said to her...

    "How can you say that?!"


    God knows I know relapse, do I not. And even you have to agree that for people like me, longer term sub use may be just what I need. You have said it yourself.

    As for Ken, who knows what makes him any different from me? Perhaps, like me, relapse is an all the time occurence, something he just can't escape. I know for myself at this point, I would take a daily dose of sub over this cliff I stand on the edge of 24 hours a day, every single effin' day.
    And if I wasn't high, calling dealers or stealing, I would certainly consider myself clean.

    And anyone who said otherwise could kiss my sweet A$$.


    I have always said to take sub short term. Everyone knows that. And I have never said that a person was opiate free while on subs. I have never disputed it's better than acting out in addiction, but I've never denied subs are an opiate replacement therapy drug.

    I have also acknowledged ALWAYS that there are exceptions to every rule including how long one uses suboxone. There are always rules that change with medication. Some people need it for different amounts of time.

    But this guy came on here chewing a$$es on people that didn't do anything to him or judge him. He began judging them sarcastically on his second post and posted about their shortcomings without knowing anything about them. I would tell someone who does that to kiss my a$$.

    Did you get up on the wrong side of your bed this morning money_chick? God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  18. #18
    longroad9785 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Hi longroad .... was wondering how you were doing. To be honest I was kind of afraid when you originally stabilized at so low a dose but stayed on the subs for so long. Regardless of any suggestions you may have received here whatever my opinion means it's still to use it short term in your case at least. You just slipped up, had nothing to do with you not using subs long enough. God bless.

    Hey Robert, nice to see ya again. I was kind of thinking the same thing, that I was on them at 4mg for too long (2 months or so before taper began). This coming sunday will be 2 weeks back and I'm thinking of beginning my taper then, using the 25% formula.

  19. #19
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    hey longroad .... You know how to do this deal dude! Stay in touch this time. Talk about it, keep it in front of yourself, don't forget about it again. This deal doesn't go away in a couple months.

    It's so much easier to relapse when we isolate. Use people here, use your friends and your family. It helps you stay clean when you help others with their recovery. You know this program well enough that you could walk someone right through the sub therapy program yourself.

    It's not about reporting to anyone like a kid, it's just keeping this deal in front of ourselves at all times for a good while at least until we have some significant time behind us clean, and not just a couple months. I will be watching for your posts. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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