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Help with Oxycodone withdrawal... Suboxone?
Help with Oxycodone withdrawal... Suboxone?
First I would just like to say that I have been lurking around on this site for a while and the amount of support and help that everyone here gives is just awesome and one of a kind. Alright so I have been on opiates for about 6 years and I am finally at the end of my road with them and want them out of my life. My wife and kids deserve better! For the past 2-3 years my daily Oxycodone intake has been from 360mg - 450mg and I am really kind of lost at how I should go about getting off of it safely. In the past I have quit taking opiates cold turkey but my tolerance was never like it is now and it really has me lost at what to do. So recently I have been on the internet trying to figure out what to do so I am hoping someone can maybe lead me the right way. One of the things I have some questions about is a short suboxone taper.. If I was to take subs for the first 4-5 days off of oxycodone would I wd again once I stopped the subs? With my tolerance how many mg of suboxone should I need to stabilize? Is it safe to take xanax with suboxone? I also have been reading about loperamide helping with wd but I tried taking 20mg this morning and it did nothing for me and I am honestly scared to take much more. I am really confused about what to do right now and any help would be really appreciated.
Anyone? I will have access to the Suboxone tomorrow and really need the help. I have never taken subs before and would really appreciate the help.
Slugger... I'm so not an expert on any of this but I wanted to give you a response... I'm sure someone with a lot more experience will come along shortly, but... Here's what I can give you now...
My understanding of subs, from reading others is... Try not to use them as they kill ur receptors and such... That being said, when you are on high doses, they can sometimes be good? But, I believe Roberts taper method is best to get off them? I don't know how much a 4-5 day taper could help... But, let me repeat... I am not even close to being an expert... I always feel bad about posting on threads that I know so little about! But I have been reading many posts for about 50 days now and I think this might be the case?!
With the loperamide, you can take quite a bit... It does help... Have you found the thomas recipe? Halve you started wds? Can you taper at all? Are you able to get more subs?
I hope that this helped maybe a little bit... I'm proud of you for making this choice! Keep posting and you'll get lots of responses!
I'm not good at advice. I know they say the more you're on the worse the withdraw but I know when I withdrew the first time it was worse and I was in considerably less and this time I was taking more and the withdraw was still hard but it seemed easier. I think it's the mindset and how much you want it. I don't know anything about subs though I'm sorry. You're on the right track though and I hope someone can answer better about the subs. I know a lot of people say avoid the benzos when detoxing but a small dose of Xanax helped me considerably. Stay strong. Ill check back later when I'm done with work.
Okay, slugger, you are on a hefty dose of oxy. 450 mgs. is pretty high. There are two things that you can do
1. use the Thomas Recipe and go c/t. 4-5 days of subs is next to useless. Xanax or other benzo is called for
for a short time only.
Thomas Recipe http//www.drugs.com/forum/featured-conditions/thomas-recipe-opiate-withdrawal-35169.html
2. use subs and do a 6-8 week taper using Robert_325's sub protocol.
A. 4-5 days is useless for a sub taper.
B. If you choose to use subs, rather than going c/t you need to do it right and do it once.
C. DO not use xanax during a sub taper. subs are extremely powerful opiods, a partial agonist.
D. It is possible to do a sub taper properly, but you will have to access to subs, more than 4-5 days
How much sub do you have access to? As you will see, it will take you more than 4-5 days sub. I am going to post the sub taper protocol here. Read through it.
Read through both carefully. You are all over the map with your ideas for w/d. I will be looking for you in the morning to see what you think. You need to be fully committed to this. Getting off of opiates for life is the most important thing you will ever do in your lifetime, but YOU CAN do this.
Last edited by iloerose; 04-04-2013 at 10:54 PM.
I was taking 500mg of oxy-contin/codone a day a year ago for four years and hydro's before that, and there was no way I could go c/t. So I went with suboxone. If you can't go c/t I would recommend doing the suboxone, but do it right.
Last edited by pullagnm; 04-04-2013 at 11:36 PM.
I hope rose helped answer your sub question slugger. I'm going to guess from the sounds of your post you only have access to a few? I know my friend came off of a high dose like yours. It wasn't easy but she made it through. She called me on the third night, it was her worst. She was shaken up and her legs hurt but once I calmed her breathing down, she laid down, sweat it out, and the next day she couldn't believe how much better she felt. I don't know how you feel about n/a. I myself can't get into it unfortunately, but from day one she went and she said it saved her life. I know on that third night she called someone from the numbers she got telling them she didn't want to go because she felt too ill, they told her come, we know how it goes. She said that meeting made the world of difference to her and what really made her realize that was where she needed to be no matter how sick she was. I really think it's the only thing keeping her clean. So my suggestion, which it's a suggestion as I really don't feel I should give advice, do the thomas recipe, follow the benzo taper exactly as stated, ( I did for the most part, although after my first night back at work a few weeks later I was really anxious and took 1 that night to sleep, but haven't touched one sense. They were also .25mg. I took 4 for the first day then 3 then 2 then 1, and was coming off about on average a 140mg habit. I didn't take enough to sleep though, but they did help me stay calm and really just think, I'm just sick and this will be over soon.) Try to find a meeting and sweat it out. My friend who came off the amount you did also ran errands and did running around everyday to stay distracted, now I know I could never do what she did, but even a book of crosswords, catching up on a season of your favorite show or all seasons (I watched weeds series beginning to end) anything and just try to sweat it out. I believe you could do it without the subs, I really do, and with distraction, and if it's your cup of tea, meetings for the help and support I truly believe you could make it threw without any subs. Especially if you can't do a proper taper.
Good luck and I hope rose did answer your questions. Stay strong. I know you can do this, you just got to put your mind to it. Remember nothing in life comes free, we have to work for everything and this is work but it's worth it.
Sub is simply another opiate taken from Thebaine, the strongest alkaloid of the poppy (Oxy by the way is also derived from Thebaine). Sub though is long acting and has a ceiling effect and that is why 8mg or 16mg will have the same effect or many users report that they feel better on lower doses.
I do not think Sub kills the receptors, that reputation comes from the fact that it takes the brain a much longer time to re-adjust after quitting long acting opiates (I guess the same can be said about the Don).
Bupe does have its uses, for example it breaks the habit of injecting H or smoking opium, it keeps you away from pushers or places you used to hang around, it also does not produce an intense high which also helps break the habit of chasing the opiate rush. It makes you feel perfectly normal, content, warm and happy and if we could use it for a life time then it would have been the holy grail of the millennium. Like other opiates though one develops tolerance to it, albeit slower than to Oxys.
To answer your question, you will basically be replacing one opiate for another, except that getting rid of a long acting opiate is known to be harder than a short acting one. So long you are aware of these facts I guess it is ok to venture into the Bupe domain, but treat it with utmost respect, it is a very strong opiate, be on it for a very short period (preferably not to exceed couple of weeks), start with very low dose of 2mg and taper down to .1 mg within 2-3 weeks, you will feel WD, but there is really no way to get over opiates without WD.
tangalor, again with the advice.... you dont just tell someone to 'start with a low dose like 2mg' that is wrong on all levels.... this person if going the sub route, needs to induct slowly, starting with .5mg at a time, that way they induct on the 'lowest effective dose', you are quoting thebaine etc, so you have looked up some info, but as for giving out dosing advice, i think you should stick to what you know.... not what you have 'read' or 'googled'
slugger you have been given some good advice here from rose, and a little bit of not so good advice from anon33 regarding the opiate receptors , subs DO NOT KILL THE RECEPTORS. jeez i cant beleive some people who have no idea just making stuff up. grrrrrr
subs are a very powerful opiate, they fill your receptors like any other opiate, but they bind very tightly and in fact will kick any opiates off that are still on there, which is why it is important to follow the induction part (the link that rose posted for you, regarding sub therapy) i know you would like to do a short taper, there have been some cases of short tapers, but generally you need a bit more time, to get it right, and for your brain to adjust to life without opiates, because of the way sub works, its like you feel 'normal' except you are on an opiate, but it gives you a chance to 'practice' being normal and then yoiu gradually decrease the dose...
subs are a great tool to use to get clean. is there any way you can get a few more subs.? that way you can do a decent taper, it is so worth it to get it right.... otherwise the quickest way to get to 'the other side' is what rose suggested and use the thomas recipe..
let us know what you think. ? but good on ya for makin the decision to quit. that right there is the first step in a positive direction ........ cool
Last edited by cheeky; 04-05-2013 at 07:49 AM.
For some reason I cant reply to single post so anyway.. I really appreciate all of the responses. I know in my first post I was all over the map with different things but I have just been thinking of so many different things to do and I have to say that I am going to try the short term sub taper first and see how it goes. I have access to more subs than I need for the 4-5 day taper I just really don't want to use them much longer than that but I will be getting extra just in case. About the xanax I asked about being able to take it while on the subs because I am prescribed it but only use it as needed and not on a regular basis. A guy on here "rb3b3" made a thread about his short sub taper and he is actually where I got the initial interest from. I plan on following his taper method with maybe just a few modifications because I know everyone is different. Here is his guide just in case any of you are curious of how his went.
day 1) 4 mg at 8 am, 4 mg @4pm
total of 8 mgs
day 2) 2 mg at 8 am, .5 mg at 4 pm
total of 2.5 mgs
day 3) 1 mg at 8 am, .5 mg at 4pm
total of 1.5 mgs
day 4) 1 mg @ 7am none that night.
total of 1 mg
day 5) Nothing
I have also read over Robert's plan and I have seen multiple people swear by it on here but I am honestly just scared to be on Subs much longer than a week. I have many friends that have been in the methadone clinic for years or on subs and although they have gotten out of the streets and aren't chasing dope boy fresh around they are still slaves to the clinic imo. I just want to be free old me again and be able to wake up in the morning and think about something other than a pill. I would tough it out and go cold turkey but doing that while having to chase around 2 toddlers all day isn't very fun as I'm sure you can imagine. I have also been reading about herbal stuff like Kratom.. Has anyone had any experience with that? I will be starting the sub taper tomorrow and will put my progress on here for everyone to read. Again thanks for the replies and support, it helps.
Welcome to the forum! I joined in the middle of Feb when I was taking 200 ml a day of morphine. With the help and support of people on this site, I went down to 130 ml and last week started subs. I'm now tapering off of them usng Roberts plan and the wonderful guidance and support of people here!! Rose is one of them. She KNOWS HER STUFF!!! I'm afraid if you follow the quick taper plan your still going to be sick when you stop taking them. I just don't think the 5 days will be enough time for your body to adjust. I'm no expert by any means.
If you do it for a more reasonable amount of time meaning the 6-8 weeks all while tapering, your symptoms will probably be much less than just doing it for the super short time you speak of. Hang in there!!
Thanks whatsinaname! Congrats on your progress keep up the good work! I will say that in the past 5-6 days I have came down to around 210mg-270mg daily and I am pretty proud of myself about that. I agree with you about the guidance and support on here it is definitely awesome and a tremendous help when going through things like this. It's particularly good for me because I have never been a really big fan of na/aa meetings and my wife doesn't really understand my situation much at all because she has never been addicted to anything in her life. So when I go through my struggles she just can't really see where I am coming from even though she really tries her best.
I have read so many people refer to Roberts plan, he must be the man around here haha! I'm really hoping that this short taper works for me because I am not real sure if I will be able to get a 6 week supply of subs.
If I am understanding correctly, you have a limited supply of Subs?
But lemme tell ya man, your playing a Dangerous Game starting out on 8mgs right out of the gate!!!!You are taking a hUGE risk of putting yourself in PWS (Precipitated Withdrawals) which is basically Oxy Withdrawals on CRACK! and I am here to tell you that you do NOT want any part of that Bro!! It is the WORST thing I have EVER been thru in my life, and it was all because the Doc dosed ME at 8mgs too!!! In about 2 hours I was Climbing the WALLS man!!! Worst experience ever!!! So Please....try to go to a Doctor and get a Prescription for the Subs, but do NOT let him dose you at that high of a Dose...Like Cheeky told you, ya need to start out at .5mgs, and increase that by .5mgs every 60-90 mins until you stablilize....THAT will be your MED(Minimum Effective Dose) and trust me, I'll be VERY surprised if you even make it to 2mgs before your feeling better and Stable! Then, you will want to reduce in increments of 25% every 4-5 days until your Done!
Can ya do that Bro?? Can ya get a Prescription? if Not...Why? Not trying to get personal, but was curious...if it was just a fear of going to a Dr saying your an Addict, or something like that...if thats the case, Please, GO! Dont worry about what the Dr thinks...they are there to treat you....but do NOT let him start you at 8mgs and Please....dont start YOURSELF at 8 either!!!!!
Keep posting and let us know what your gonna do Man!!!!
Your making a GREAT decision getting off the Drugs man...just do it right the First time ok? Ya do NOT wanna have to go thru this again!!!!
BTW....EXACTLY how much Subs do you have, or can get?
Talk to you soon!
Last edited by HarrySmooth; 04-05-2013 at 08:33 PM.
If you decide to go on Sub then make sure you are in full WD from Oxys before taking your first dose of Sub.
If you are currently on 200-300mg Oxys then 8mg Sub is too high of a dose, start with 2mg and give it an hour to see how you feel. If you want to do a fast taper then you want to be on a low dose in such a way that you will still have some WD. At 8mg you will defeat this purpose and feel better than being on Oxys - ) ////Don’t stay on them for more than couple of weeks, Bupe will occupy all your opiate receptors making the brain even lazier than before to produce endorphin and to regulate number of opiate receptors. If you have managed to go down on your Oxys from 400 to 200 then why don’t you continue with Oxy taper ? (At least to the point you start losing control over the Oxys again).
Are you here just to sabotage people??
PLEASE do not pay ANY Attention to this "Talangor" he has NO idea what he is talking about and is going to Hurt someone BADLY if anyone takes his Idiotic Advice...he has NO IDEA what he is talking about and is handing out BOGUS advice....PLEASE....whatever you do, do NOT listen to him!@
WHY are you doing this? You CAN NOT give out STUPID advice like that man....you are going to SERIOUSLY hurt someone with that Kind of BS!!! Really man....you need to stay OUT of this, you have NO clue about Subs, OBVIOUSLY....Everytime you post something you just re-Affirm that fact!
Please, Stop posting about things you have NO Knowledge of....your going to Hurt somebody soon if one of us dont Catch you before some poor soul takes your Idiotic Advice!
How did yesterday go man??? Drop us a short note to let us know how your feeling....and PLEASE, do not pay ANY attention to this Talangor.....Trust me when I tell you he has NO idea what he is doing and is going to Screw somebody up BADLY before its over.....Just ignore him.....Ignore his posts and he will eventually just Fade away.....the word is already out on him, and hopefully everyone will ignore him!
Lemme know how your doing Slugger!!!!!!
Your Pal Harry
Last edited by HarrySmooth; 04-06-2013 at 07:09 AM.
hi harry, i was going to say pretty much exactly the same thing, but not in such a kind manner.
bangalor, tangolator, tangalor whatever, YOU ARE GIVING OUT BAD ADVICE. and its obvious you have NO CLUE about how subs work, oh yeh you are spouting big words, but they mean nothing coz of the context they are used in...
SLUGGER i would suggest you ignore anything this person has to say from now on... wouldnt even bother reading the posts, i can assure you the advice you received from tangalor is false at best, dangerous at worst....
obviously we recommend the taper as roberts is suggested, but then again, you gotta work with what you have... in my opinion, we as addicts need a bit longer than a week or so to 'adjust' to life, subs give us that chance by makin us feel 'normal' while we taper off...
let us know how you are doing, but most importantly, ignore tangalator, please, im sure harry and i both cant be wrong... nope, we are right. this is a dangerously ill informed individual...
anyway, yeh, give us an update and keep up the good attitude... that goes a long way to ya know. )
Slugger Did you start your taper? I'm going to give you some advice about that. What you are doing is basically useless and you WILL end up in full w/d when you finish. Subs have a 72 hour half life. If you do what you plan with the subs you may as well c/t the oxy. If you're determined to do a short taper you will need to cut your sub into .5mg. pieces. When you reach 26 on the COWS scale induct at .5mg increments, (as harry suggested) Start with .5 wait around an hour and take another if you need to, and so on. This is your Minimum Effective Dose. Hopefully, you'll stick at under 2mg. I'm going to post a link to someone else's quick taper..
4 days at 2mg.
4 days at 1.5 mg
4 days at 1.0 mg
4 days at .75 mg.
4 days at .5 mg.
4 days at .25 mg.
You will use a total of 24 mg. This is a pretty fast taper. You won't be symptom free but these can be treated to make you more comfortable. I'm also posting Winged Eagles thread with her quick taper.
Let us know how you are getting on. Good Luck to you!!!
Just to "Clarify" what Rose just told you....looking at her Schedule, it is "Spot on" but keep in mind, at the top (or Beginning) of the Schedule, she has "4 Days at 2mg"....just keep in mind this 2mgs comes from your "inducting" UP to that point, beginning with .5mgs and going up .5mgs every 60-90 mins until you REACh that 2mgs!!! Now you might not even MAKE it to 2mgs.....you MAY feel fine at 1.5, or even ONE....so you will have to adjust her Schedule Accordingly....that 2mgs may end up being 1mg, or 1.5....follow me?
(Rose,,,I just wanted to make sure he understood he was not BEGINning at 2mgs, but working his way UP to 2mgs thru his induction.....wasnt stepping on your toes, just clarifying....LOL.....As ALWAYS your "Spot On" Honey!!!!)
I'll check back in awhlle if you have any Questions....
ROse, I have to go out of town for a bit today....I'll be back around 4-5pm....can you keep an eye out on Slugger????
Slugger, you have a GREAT day, and drop us a line to let us know how yesterday/Last Night went ok>???
Last edited by HarrySmooth; 04-06-2013 at 08:06 AM.
Harry's exactly right. I based your taper on 2mg. You may not even need that much, just wanted to show you how little sub you actually need for a fast taper. It's important to stabilize at the lowest dose possible for you and then structure your taper. If you don't do that and go ahead with what you have written down you will have a problem with the w/d. You may as well go c/t from the oxy. As was stated, subs have a long half life. They are indeed strong medicine. As far as the xanax, as long as you are not taking it regularly every day and haven't been on it for a long time. Good luck! We'll support you no matter what you decide to do.
Alright today is my first day of Subs and I have to say that I am a little depressed. On top of having to take way more Sub than I thought I would need to I am fighting with my wife about even starting it. Its so hard having a spouse that just doesn't understand this part of me. She thinks that I should just "tough it out" or " don't get off of drugs with drugs".. Much easier said than done. Even though I know she has suffered too because of my addiction it sucks to have someone in my ear making me feel like sht when I think that I am trying to move in the right direction. Anyways enough about my screwed up marriage lol..
About me continuing to taper with my oxy I just don't have enough right now and my Dr's appointment isn't for another week. So I'm sure you guys are wondering how much subs I had to take this morning and it was 10mg! I'm not going to lie I didn't do it at .5mg because I have the 8mg strips and it would be hard to do so I did 1mg at a time. I know some of you guys will say that I didn't need that much and I shouldn't have taken it but to be honest with you I still feel like I am in wd right now, it's just a lot easier to deal with. My pupils are still really dialated and my eyes and nose are runny I just feel that it has been taken down to a level that I can handle. What should I do? Should I take more? My friend that I got them from said the Dr put him straight at 16mg from day one with no induction at all.. I'm thinking maybe its a money thing and they don't really care as long as he comes back to their office every month with that $300 in hand.
Today is the first day in years I have felt my back problems full on without any pain meds and it is definitely hard to deal with. I am having a hard time sitting still just even typing this because I am hurting so bad. Is there any non narcotic pain meds that will help me?
You guys don't understand what it means to have you take the time out and ask how I'm doing because I definitely don't get it at home much! Not trying to sound like I need a pat on the back or need to be babied but just knowing that someone cares that I am trying to do the right thing really helps and I appreciate it.
Last edited by sluggercity; 04-06-2013 at 04:22 PM.
First of all congrats on getting this far. You sound a whole lot like me my first day. Were you in full WD before you took the subs? Hope so as I've heard horrible things about that. I was beating myself up big time fo needing more to stabilize then most I've read from. I think I eneded up taking 6 that first day and still didn't feel great.
Everyone here said I should feel NORMAL Meaning no symptoms at all. That was last Friday and now I'm at 4 and plan to drop tomorrow. I guess what I'm saying is listen to your body!!! You should feel normal.
Someone who knows allot more then me will be on to help you. Just wanted to share my experience with you! Good luck and don't be too hard on yourself!!
I'm no doctor...I'm only giving advice...you should consult a doctor before you took any of my advice. I've been on subs for 2 years now...had a 6 year addiction of opiates. I haven't touched an opiate since I began suboxone...and why? I'm SCARED. I NEVER want to be that person again. I lost my job, hurt my girlfriends heart, my parents, my family...I was an embarrassment.
I'm finally tapering down. This month is my first attempt at 4mg strips instead of my 8mg...am I nervous? YES !!! I take xanax with my subs, my doc said its fine, and it will help me after I'm done with subs. Then I'll slowly stop taking Xanax and be pill free. PERSONALLY, I don't think your method will work. You need to see a doc because you'll need to be on a program longer than just like a week or two. Your withdrawals will return, trust me I've tried it. I'm proud of myself for now hating Vicodin, which almost killed me. In fact, my fiancé has a script for it for a very legit reason, and does not abuse them, but she trusts me so much that she leaves her bottle full of Vicodins on our dresser in plain view, and I love that I just don't want them. They made me more mentally ill than any physical pain. If I didn't have my vikes, I wouldn't talk to people, wouldn't eat, wouldn't go out, and that hurt my girlfriend real bad and it makes me sick to think of the piece of garbage I really was when I was doing that. I'd run short on rent money, but I didn't care, because I NEEDED THEM. So I'd do anything it took to get em. Almost anything...I never robbed or stole from anyone. That isn't me, will never be. GET THE RIGHT doctor, get on the right dosage, follows it to a T, and you WILL BEAT YOUR ADDICTION. Trust me on this. I've been there. Never give up, because once you do, your gonna end up dying. Plain & simple. GO FOR IT !!! I'm here for ya. I'll even give you my # if you wanna talk, I want to help everyone I can because it's possible. Anything is possible.
Slugger First of all, I should have mentioned that you needed to be in full blown w/d from the oxy before you started the subs. I ASSUMED that you were. First, How long were you off the oxy before you started the sub? Second do not take anymore sub at this time. 10mg is a relatively high dose and we will work with this. But don't take anymore.
So tell me How long were you off the oxy before you took the sub?
Last edited by iloerose; 04-06-2013 at 06:30 PM.
Please do not pay any attention to any other posts right now. I'm going to try to stabilize you.
If 10mg is not doing it then you took them before going into full blown WD. The Oxys are semi long acting so you probably should have waited longer. But you will feel better tomorrow when less Oxy is in your blood.
Go down as fast as you can till you feel some WD, there is no free lunch here, no way to get rid of opiates without going through WD, you can make it a milder WD but stretch it over a longer period or you can choose a harsher WD but for a shorter period, the total amount of misery will remain the same in both options.
Sorry to say what you probably do not want to hear but you are still addicted to opiates because Sub is a strong opiate. The only reason you don’t yet feel the ups and downs of your old DOC is because Sub is long acting. Eventually though, as with any other opiate, the brain develops tolerance to Sub and it starts losing its effectiveness. That usually happens after few years at which time you will need to taper down and deal with the inevitable.
Slugger, I am not gonna "beat you up" over this, but if your not going to follow the Plan dude....then we cant help you....the reason your STILL feeling like is because your in Mild PWS....Precipitated Withdrawals...from Overdoing the SUbs!!! 10mg is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too much man!
If you really want to do this right, your going to have to stay the course man....
Did you read the Subs Taper plan by Robert???
If not....PLEASE read it throughly...Read it and Understand it....Im telling you man, your asking for big Troubles if you continue like you are...these Subs are NOT to be played around with...they are VERY Strong, and if your not going to let us help you, and stay the course, then I dont know what we can do for ya bro....
Oh and Proud2B....I hate to rain on ya but your not Opiate free!! Subs are a Very Powerful Opiate!!! Although I know what you "meant"....youve been Oxy/Perc free....but Not Opiate free!!!
i took 30mg of oxy last night before I went to bed at around 11pm and I didn't take the subs until 10-11am this morning. I know that was only 12hrs but I go into wd about 5-6hrs after my last dose of oxy and it always comes fast and hard. I was def in wd when I first took the subs although I didn't use the cows to score myself.
Slugger...I KNOW what your going thru man....my Back is what sent me on the Oxys in the 1st place...Now i just use some 500mg Naprosyn/Naproxin, and thats it....Sure my back kills me every day of my life, but I gotta live with it....
And NOOOOOOOOOOO Do NOT take anymore!!! Youve done WAY too much now man!....I dont know how to emphasize this to you enough....but you MUST follow Roberts plan to the letter or you are not going to feel any better Bro!!! Click on the link I sent you...read it....then Do a google Search for a COWS Sheet...(Clinical Opiate Withdrawal Sheet) and your going to have to get yourself to at LEAST a 26 on the COWS Sheet and then you begin Induction at .5mgs every 90mins....until you stabilize and feel good!!! I will be VERY Surprised if you even make it to 2mgs before you are feeling GREAT!!!!! Please man...ya gotta listen to us....we have BEEN there!!! And if you only knew HOW many people we have coached thru this and doing the SAME thing your doing before they FINALLY listened and Stopped trying to do it their own way ...feeling Miserable, complaining about the Subs not working, UNTIL they buckled down and Followed Roberts Plan, and in EVERY case they come back and say "WOW....I wish I had Followed the Plan in the FIRST place"!!!!
So...with that said...Ive laid out for you what you need to do....if you continue on the way your going, I dont know what else I can do Man.....
And that is a REAL Drag about your Spouse....WOW....I cant IMAGINE trying to go thru this with a Spouse Nagging at me ....that really sucks man...Im sorry you have to go thru that....you need SUPPORT right now....Not Nagging.....
But...anyway....think about what I said....and let us know what your going to do.....
Maybe someone else, one of the Advanced members can pop in and give you some different advice or a different direction more suitable to what you want to do....but this plan is the only one I know of that WORKS!!!!
Hang in there Bro!!!
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