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Help Me Help My Son
  1. #1
    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    Unhappy Help Me Help My Son

    My son is 29 years old ... and I had him fly in from where he was living, to be with me. He's been through hell, and we're both at a loss as to what to do next!

    He's been on Paxil for 9 years ... has tried to get off twice before, but the withdrawal was too great and he had to go back on. This last time (3'rd time), he ended up in the ER ... so I had him fly home to be with me. I found him a psychiatrist .. who had him withdraw from the paxil somewhat slower, but still somewhat fast. He's now been off the paxil for one week.

    He is in HELL again .... and it's been getting worse each day! His pdoc put him on Celexa 20 mg. for one week, with Wellbutrin once a day (forgot the dose), then up to 40 mg. Celexa and Wellbutrin twice a day. Well, he's been on the Celexa 40 mg. 2 days now and Wellbutrin twice a day starts tomorrow, and he's no better .... even worse.

    He has horrible anxiety .... the deepest, darkest depression he's ever known, can't eat much at all, and doesn't sleep all that well. The pdoc seems to think it will just take time, but my son tells me he can't hold on much longer .. since he's been through SO much for SO long, before this ... and now add this, and he's at the end of his rope.

    At this point, neither of us can decide if he should go to the hospital, where they might fill him with more meds, or put him on something else all together ... and HE actually thinks he should go BACK on Paxil, highest dose he felt ok at ... and stay for at least a year, to stabilize (he says he NEVER wants to try to withdraw again actually), and MAYBE then try to taper off VERY very slowly.

    I'm at a loss as to what to tell him ... he's an adult, and if he wants to go back to Paxil (or Zoloft, which is close to Paxil he says ... and may be better to try than going back to actualy paxil, since it seemed to have stopped working before), there's really nothing I can do to stop him.

    I just don't know if he might be RIGHT, in what he wants to do ... but what if updosing back again, might be wrong? He's in such misery now and DONE with all of the suffering, I fear what he'll do, if it doesn't work. UGH! If only one could know ahead of time, which the right way to go is.

    PLEASE ... any of you out there, that may have been in this situation, and can lend ANY suggestions or support in any way ... would be GREATLY appreciated!

    Thanks so much!
    Diana

  2. #2
    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    No advice whatsoever?

  3. #3
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana Elaine View Post
    No advice whatsoever?




    Diana ..... I don't give advice on psych drugs, anti-depressants. I don't know your son or his mental state. He needs to be talking with a dr.

    I'm not avoiding this, I just take these kinds of meds seriously. I've known two people who were on Paxil that committed suicide when taken off abuptly and you've got all these other drugs involved too..

    I won't touch a Paxil patient. Be careful not to take advice from people who don't really know what they are talking about. These are serious meds to be getting advice about on a forum from people who don't know his medical history.

    Ask me about stopping pain pills, no problem. But this is something altogether different.. Hope that helps. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    I have been on various antidepressants over the years. I am not a doctor but if the paxil was working and being off the paxil is obviously not working, why did he get off of it to begin with? If he is suffering to the extreme yo usay he is, he obviously needs to talk to the psychiatrist about taking something that will help his depression and anxiety. No one has a crystal ball but you can see what's happening in the present and he is miserable and needs the doctor to work with him until he gets some relief.
    bboomer likes this.

  5. #5
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    P.S. Diana, there is absolutely no shame at all in being on an antidepressant or an anti anxiety medication. Depression/anxiety is an illness which needs to be treated. He needs to impress upon the doctor the extent of his black depression and high anxiety then go forward from there.

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    Psyched is offline Member
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    Diane,
    Let me first say that Robert gave you some excellent advice about taking advice here. As with the others, I am NOT a doctor, BUT I do work at a psych hospital so I can understand the severity of your son's dilemma. After reading your post, I too (like Newyorkgal) don't understand why he tapered off to begin with if the Paxil was working. Nevertheless, I want to stress what Robert told you about psych medications...it's all about finding the right combination of meds at the right dosages for the INDIVIDUAL. Unfortunately they don't all help everyone the same. Now, in all fairness, the therapeutic effect of Celexa usually takes about 4-6 weeks; the Wellbutrin takes about 2-4. If your son thinks these aren't working, then he needs to talk with his doctor about starting the Paxil again. What you need to assess for yourself is whether or not you think your son's in any imminent danger of harming himself because all 3 of these meds can make a person feel suicidal and even more depressed. If you have ANY doubt that he won't be alright, it is YOUR duty to inform his doctor; if he needs to be in a more stable environment to get better, then so be it. Psych meds can be very dangerous and I would urge you to take extra precautions to insure his well-being. Again, I am NOT a doctor, but I do hope this information helps you and your son decide what to do next. I pray that your son gets the help he needs and gets back to feeling better. Good luck and God bless!

  7. #7
    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by newyorkgal View Post
    I have been on various antidepressants over the years. I am not a doctor but if the paxil was working and being off the paxil is obviously not working, why did he get off of it to begin with? If he is suffering to the extreme yo usay he is, he obviously needs to talk to the psychiatrist about taking something that will help his depression and anxiety. No one has a crystal ball but you can see what's happening in the present and he is miserable and needs the doctor to work with him until he gets some relief.
    Sorry .... forgot to mention in original post, that the Paxil stopped working ... and that's why he started to taper off.

    He was actually doing pretty good at 30mg., but then his therapist thought putting him on Prozac, would help the withdrawal .... and had him go down way too fast ... and up on the Prozac too fast. When Prozac hit the 2nd week ... he crashed big time!

    HTH

  8. #8
    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyched View Post
    Diane,
    Let me first say that Robert gave you some excellent advice about taking advice here. As with the others, I am NOT a doctor, BUT I do work at a psych hospital so I can understand the severity of your son's dilemma. After reading your post, I too (like Newyorkgal) don't understand why he tapered off to begin with if the Paxil was working. Nevertheless, I want to stress what Robert told you about psych medications...it's all about finding the right combination of meds at the right dosages for the INDIVIDUAL. Unfortunately they don't all help everyone the same. Now, in all fairness, the therapeutic effect of Celexa usually takes about 4-6 weeks; the Wellbutrin takes about 2-4. If your son thinks these aren't working, then he needs to talk with his doctor about starting the Paxil again. What you need to assess for yourself is whether or not you think your son's in any imminent danger of harming himself because all 3 of these meds can make a person feel suicidal and even more depressed. If you have ANY doubt that he won't be alright, it is YOUR duty to inform his doctor; if he needs to be in a more stable environment to get better, then so be it. Psych meds can be very dangerous and I would urge you to take extra precautions to insure his well-being. Again, I am NOT a doctor, but I do hope this information helps you and your son decide what to do next. I pray that your son gets the help he needs and gets back to feeling better. Good luck and God bless!
    I truly appreciate your reply ... let me say first, the reason he started to taper off Paxil, is because it just stopped working for him. That said: he only has 6 more weeks that he can stay here with me, or he'll lose his apt. in Seattle ... where all his belongings are. He needs to go back ... he has obligations there also. So he wanted to be stable, before flying back, for one ... the flight alone might be too much for him, and going home alone might be too.

    If he goes into the hospital here, he may have to stay over that period ... of course, maybe not either, but he just doesn't think the hospital has anyway to help him anymore than the pdoc he's seeing has. His pdoc said, if he doesn't want to be inpatient, he can't force him.

    My son is a wonderfully loving and kind person .... he's just SO afraid of all meds now, that he doesn't want to be hospitalized and given more meds ... or go through anymore suffering. This is a very very hard and sad place for us both to be.

    His choice? Get off ALL meds and be free from all of them. He's actually contemplating that next ... and I know that could be hell too, but he's an adult and I believe is still competent to make his own decisions.

  9. #9
    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by newyorkgal View Post
    P.S. Diana, there is absolutely no shame at all in being on an antidepressant or an anti anxiety medication. Depression/anxiety is an illness which needs to be treated. He needs to impress upon the doctor the extent of his black depression and high anxiety then go forward from there.
    He has told him ... all of it. He has no 'shame' in being on an AD ... but the paxil stopped working, it pooped out on him. The pdoc just seemed to want to throw all kinds of meds at him.

  10. #10
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    Diana, I have a 24 year old nephew who, over the years, has been diagnosed with every mental illness in the books, from depression to anxiety to OCD to bipolar. He had been on every psych med you can imagine during his teenage years. After he turned 21, he just decided to stop all meds. He did this under a doctor's care. He joined a group therapy that dealt with how to deal with day to day issues (I forget what it's called - it's a certain type of therapy, dealing with the here and now). He nows takes a dose of Wellbutrin once a day (compared to the heavy duty stuff he used to take). He is a wonderful yound man, getting ready to go to Hunter College in NY where we live. The worrisome thing is that you need to assess if he is a danger to himself. If that's an issue, you need to talk to his doctor. If you feel it isn't, he needs to talk to the doctor and they can work out what's best for him together. I am a mother and a grandmother and I really really feel for you.

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Diana,

    Like Robert, my area of expertise is substance abuse. I try to refrain from offering recommendations about anti-depressants and certain psychiatric drugs. One thing came to mind, however, when I read through this thread - so I thought I'd offer it - in the event it may be of significance with your son.

    Many folks with psychiatric disorders, from anxiety to depression to OCD (etc) try to "self-medicate" their symptoms by use of other drugs which are, for the most part, legal - but can completely undermine the effectiveness of the anti-depressant a doctor is prescribing.

    In other words, IF your son is using any other substances - whether it is alcohol, pot or benzodiazepenes (ex: xanax, klonopin, valium, ativan, etc.) -- they will counteract any anti-depressant. In order to KNOW for sure if an anti-depressant is working for him, he needs to refrain completely from taking these kinds of substances.

    This may or may not apply to him - but I felt I should let you know. As a mom and gramma, myself, I surely know the heartache of witnessing our childrens' suffering, and feeling powerless to do anything for them. I'll keep your son - and you - in my prayers.

    God bless,
    Ruth

  12. #12
    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by newyorkgal View Post
    Diana, I have a 24 year old nephew who, over the years, has been diagnosed with every mental illness in the books, from depression to anxiety to OCD to bipolar. He had been on every psych med you can imagine during his teenage years. After he turned 21, he just decided to stop all meds. He did this under a doctor's care. He joined a group therapy that dealt with how to deal with day to day issues (I forget what it's called - it's a certain type of therapy, dealing with the here and now). He nows takes a dose of Wellbutrin once a day (compared to the heavy duty stuff he used to take). He is a wonderful yound man, getting ready to go to Hunter College in NY where we live. The worrisome thing is that you need to assess if he is a danger to himself. If that's an issue, you need to talk to his doctor. If you feel it isn't, he needs to talk to the doctor and they can work out what's best for him together. I am a mother and a grandmother and I really really feel for you.
    I surely appreciate the response newyorkgal.

    I'm so sorry you and your son had to go through so much also. Once we go through it ourselves, we surely can relate to others.

    Is the therapy you mentioned, cognitive therapy or CBT I think they also call it?

    I do wish .. and think .. and so does he .. that getting off ALL meds is best for him, at least to see how he does, but he's SO exhausted from going through SO much ... he's been physically and mentally sick for years... that he's just not sure he can take another day. He says it's now to the point of being excruciatingly painful (mentally that is).

    The problem with his 'doctor' who is a psychiatrist ... is that all he wants to do is throw all kinds of meds at him, and doesnt' seem to be really listening to him. He has no insurance here, and I'm on SSI ... so I can't pay out of pocket for him. Family has helped a bit with his meds and the 2 office visits with his pdoc, but that's probably as far as they're willing to go.

    Perhaps just the Wellbutrin WILL be enough .... oh how glad my heart would be, if today was the day ... God chose to give him some relief! He said he would hang in there one or two at the most .. more days, with the Wellbutrin & Celexa, but after that .. he's finished, and will either go into the hospital or go back to Seattle. But if he goes back, I'll be a nervous wreck worrying about him!

    Thank you for your prayers and understanding
    Last edited by Diana Elaine; 07-06-2010 at 08:05 AM.

  13. #13
    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARTIST658 View Post
    Hi Diana,

    Like Robert, my area of expertise is substance abuse. I try to refrain from offering recommendations about anti-depressants and certain psychiatric drugs. One thing came to mind, however, when I read through this thread - so I thought I'd offer it - in the event it may be of significance with your son.

    Many folks with psychiatric disorders, from anxiety to depression to OCD (etc) try to "self-medicate" their symptoms by use of other drugs which are, for the most part, legal - but can completely undermine the effectiveness of the anti-depressant a doctor is prescribing.

    In other words, IF your son is using any other substances - whether it is alcohol, pot or benzodiazepenes (ex: xanax, klonopin, valium, ativan, etc.) -- they will counteract any anti-depressant. In order to KNOW for sure if an anti-depressant is working for him, he needs to refrain completely from taking these kinds of substances.

    This may or may not apply to him - but I felt I should let you know. As a mom and gramma, myself, I surely know the heartache of witnessing our childrens' suffering, and feeling powerless to do anything for them. I'll keep your son - and you - in my prayers.

    God bless,
    Ruth
    Hi Ruth, thanks so much for writing!

    I understand what you're saying about 'other' drugs and self medicating ... and he's not using anything else .. except he IS on Ativan. He uses it just here and there, when the anxiety gets horribly unbearable. I know there have been days he's not taken any, just to see what it's like ... and he says it's excruciating ... and just too much to bear.

    I will pass this on to him though ...

    Yes, my heart is broken, and I've had episodes of irregular heartbeat off and on, since he's gotten here. I have MVPS (mitral valve prolapse syndrome), and it's not fatal for the most part, but almost impossible to function when it's at it's worse. I am now on a very low dose of Xanax myself, and that has calmed my heart down and helped me to get through this time a bit better. But it doesn't stop the horrible ache I have for him .. he's such a great guy, so loving and kind and polite and sweet ... a BIG kind teddy bear.

    I've had my cry for the day this morning ... talking and singing to God. I'll go on the best I can ... and surely would appreciate all the prayers you guys can spare.

    Hugs

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    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    Dear Diana,
    It's not my son, but rather my nephew (same thing, I love him so much). Through his childhood and teenage years he suffered alot also and, as I'm sure you're aware, kids can be so cruel. He was "different". These days, alot of psychiatrists are merely psychopharmocologists and do very little other than perscribe meds during 15 minute appointments. My sister and brother-in-law thought they were doing the right thing for him but once he reached adulthood, he decided he'd had enough a nd stop almost all the meds. I'm not saying this is right for your son but he is an adult. I believe his depression needs to be treated. If he isn't working, can he get medicaid? Since he's an adult, it's up to him to decide what he really wants to do but has to work with a psychiatrist to do that. I'm sorry you too are suffering because of this but understand that as a mother, we suffer for them, sometimes more than they suffer for themselves. I pray that it all works out well in the end.

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    delta1011 is offline Senior Member
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    Diana - I can't speak from the perspective of psych drugs, but do have a son who's struggled for the last several years with drug use. I feel your pain and will commit to pray for y'all for help, hope and healing. It's an awful thing to watch your child suffer. May he find the help he needs quickly. God bless you and strengthen you, Diana.
    <>< jbchick

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    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    And yes, Diana, it IS cognitive therapy. My memory doesn't work as well as it once did . It was the best thing he ever did.

  17. #17
    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    Just popping in for a minute ... really bad now! Joe is worse ... deepest depression ever with the highest level of anxiety he's ever had. I'm worn out ... exhausted and devastated that I can't help him.

    I called hospitals and talked to head nurse on psych floor, there's not much more they would do for him there, than I'm doing here. He's done with drugs ... wants no more, wants to come off what he's on now, since it's not working and even making him worse. In 5 weeks, he has to go back to Seattle, and how can I just let him go, being worse than when he came?

    :

    I was told by some doctors I called today, that the psychiatrist he's currently seeing, isn't very trustful and they'd recommend not going back. Also, in NY state, pdocs are the only ones who can prescribe. His medicaid is not good here, and many doctors won't take MONEY .. I'm talking CASH .. since he has medicaid in another state, and they don't work with medicaid!

    I cried with him today .... we're really quite the mess together ... and yet, I have NO idea what to do next.

  18. #18
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    If he has medicaid in another state, can he start seeing a doctor after he goes home? I think this is his best bet for now. However, if you think he's suicidal, he needs to go to the ER ASAP. If not, he needs to find a good psych doctor in Seattle. Sometimes it's hit and miss with antidepressants. Many don't work or stop working but others will work. The main thing is he needs to find a good doctor. I know this is difficult because alot of psychiatrists don't work with medicaid. Mental illness is the bastard child of the medical field. Docs often won't take insurance and they are too quick to just dole out pills. My heart bleeds for you and your son. I've suffered from depression on and off most of my life. As I said, my nephew suffered greatly. If you get cancer, you can be seen by the best specialists and take every test. When you get a mental illness, you are pretty well on your own and screwed. But there ARE good and caring doctors out there. He will need to do the research and find someone in Washington State, I think. Depression meds often take weeks to take effect. So he needs to be patient. If one doesn't work, perhaps anotehr will or a combination. If his depression and anxiety are that severe, he NEEDS to be under professional care. My prayers are with you both.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I know a good Internal Medicine Specialist near Seattle that is very good with anti-depressants and other psych drugs.. University of Washington and comparable facilities take forever to get in to see. Took me three months to get into University of Washington.

    I lived in the Seattle area and know how hard it was to find anyone good in a reasonable timeframe. This dr is in Bonney Lake, WA, actually a little closer to Tacoma. If I can help let me know. This dr does accept Medicare, I would assume she would accept medicaid as well. Might be worth a shot until you can do something better. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 07-07-2010 at 02:40 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  20. #20
    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I know a good Internal Medicine Specialist near Seattle that is very good with anti-depressants and other psych drugs.. University of Washington and comparable facilities take forever to get in to see. Took me three months to get into University of Washington.

    I lived in the Seattle area and know how hard it was to find anyone good in a reasonable timeframe. This dr is in Bonney Lake, WA, actually a little closer to Tacoma. If I can help let me know. This dr does accept Medicare, I would assume she would accept medicaid as well. Might be worth a shot until you can do something better. God bless.
    Robert: Yes, I would love to have the information for that doctor! Joe is scheduled to fly back today ... but he's SO sick still ... that my heart aches for him, and I just HATE to send him back, but I have no choice.

    He needs to see a good doctor ASAP when he gets there ... so if you could send that to me as soon as you can, I'd appreciate it. Not sure if I can post my email address here or not, or how one sends personal/private info .... but you probably know the forum rules better than I do.

    Hoping to hear from you soon,
    Diana

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Diana ......... Call Dr Ramishondron .....253-891-2160. She is located in Bonney Lake, WA. She is good and is very conscientous about doing the right thing. She is an Internal Medicine Specialist and you shouldn't have a long wait to get in. Tell her how sick he is and hopefully you can get right in. She can help with lots of problems. Hope that helps. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    tjc819 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Diana ......... Call Dr Ramishondron .....253-891-2160. She is located in Bonney Lake, WA. She is good and is very conscientous about doing the right thing. She is an Internal Medicine Specialist and you shouldn't have a long wait to get in. Tell her how sick he is and hopefully you can get right in. She can help with lots of problems. Hope that helps. God bless.
    Yes Diane,
    I too have suffered from depression and axiety issues as you have explained your son is having and we are the same age. My meds (Zoloft) also stopped working, however, my pdoc upped the dosage and would NEVER have taken me off of it in such a short time span. when i asked to be weened off she would only decrease it by 25mg every 30 days. maybe Joe needs to go back on the Paxil and just increase the dosage, or try the zoloft. the only bad thing about psych meds is that most do take 14-30 days to start working. My prayers are with Joe and you. Please keep us posted on how he is doing.
    Tammie

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    Diana Elaine is offline New Member
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    Joe left today to fly home ... but his flight was very late and he waited 3 hours at the airport, and I had gone home ... and I feel HORRID that I wasn't able to be with him.

    Then to make things worse ... when he finally arrived at his first destination, his second fight was messed up .. and he had to wait another 2 hours at that airport! He called me and is very sick and I feel physically sick myself and want to throw up! STUPID AIRLINES!!!

    I just hope he makes his second flight ... and gets home safe and sound. He won't be home now, until 5:00 in the morning .... meaning if he doesn't sleep on the plane, he'll be up all night.

    UGH!

    He's back on Pexeva, not sure I told you guys that ... just a new form of Paxil. He's been on 20 for 10 days now, and tonight he's going to go up to 30 .... because it's not working at all yet, and from past experiences, his body feels a difference with AD's very fast. I SO hope that the 30 will start to kick in soon and stop the anxiety and deep depression. He's been suffering SO much.

    I asked my sister today, if she could help with money, so his brother could fly to him from California ... to be with him for 2-3 days, in case he feels he has to go in-patient, so he won't be alone in the ER. She will help ... so I feel good about that. I made him promise me, that if he didn't feel safe and felt suicidal again, he would call the ambulance ASAP and make sure he's admitted this time.

    I've cried allot today ... I'm exhausted ... but I can't sleep until I know he's on the second flight. I can't really know ... since he has no cell phone, but if I don't hear from him, an hour after it's taken off, at least I can know he's probably on it. What a day this has been!

    Robert: the doctor is quite far from Joe ... I thought it might be closer. He has to rely on bus ... and being so sick, not sure if he's able to do that. But still, I'll tell him about her. Thank you for the information.

    Tammie: Yes, I believe Joe needs to go up on the Pexeva, so tonight he's going to 30, if he has to, he'll go up to 40, gradually. I know he's on his last strings of hope right now, actually I think he's ran out .... so I pray with all my heart, that the meds start kicking in NOW!

    I need to go ... I'm so worried he'll have problems with the second flight. Will post soon.
    Hugs

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