help

[sister39]

Hi everybody,
I just found this site, finally, and it sounds like i can get the help I need here.

I started out like most, with real pain issues, and slowly but surely the pills took over my life. Everything revolves around them. I have been wanting to quit for months now, but the withdrawels just about kill me, literally. I don't knowhow to get past this physical sickness. I have no insurance and have checked out going to a Dr for subs but I can't afford what they charge nor the price the pharmacy wants to sell the subs for. I know getting black market pills is expensive, but I'm sure you all know it is cheaper than quitting, and there is the big problem.

i want off, I am afraid all the time as I get suicidal when I try to quit, but anymore I feel the same way when i have them, as I hate who I have become. Iremember me before i got addicted, and I want that person back.

I have been reading these threads, and something abut COWs score, which I have never heard of. Can somebody please tell me what to do or where I can go to get help to quit? i was hooked badly on percs, 10-20 a day, and I mistakenly thought that if I started taking an extended release pain medication that it would be easier to quit. My thinking was 2 pills a day as opposed to 20 was going in the right direction, so I started on MS Contin. Boy was I wrong. Just one day off of them and the physical withdrawels were 10 times what it was off the others. I am now down to 1 pill left, and I'm terrified of what I will go through, but I DON'T WANT TO GET MORE PAIN MEDS. Please, can someone help me? Tell me what to do. I'm scared.

[melinda7.5]

Hi Sister
Oh my friend I have been in your shoes and I know what your going thru...
Did you say that you could get some sub somewhere or are you going c/t
I have done them all ... and none of them are any fun...
the cow work sheet is something that you use when you do subs
and then there is the Thomas recipe for cold turkey...
we here for ya... so don't be scared your going to be ok...
talk to you soon, Melinda

[Robert_325]

Hi everybody,
I just found this site, finally, and it sounds like i can get the help I need here.

I started out like most, with real pain issues, and slowly but surely the pills took over my life. Everything revolves around them. I have been wanting to quit for months now, but the withdrawels just about kill me, literally. I don't knowhow to get past this physical sickness. I have no insurance and have checked out going to a Dr for subs but I can't afford what they charge nor the price the pharmacy wants to sell the subs for. I know getting black market pills is expensive, but I'm sure you all know it is cheaper than quitting, and there is the big problem.

i want off, I am afraid all the time as I get suicidal when I try to quit, but anymore I feel the same way when i have them, as I hate who I have become. Iremember me before i got addicted, and I want that person back.

I have been reading these threads, and something abut COWs score, which I have never heard of. Can somebody please tell me what to do or where I can go to get help to quit? i was hooked badly on percs, 10-20 a day, and I mistakenly thought that if I started taking an extended release pain medication that it would be easier to quit. My thinking was 2 pills a day as opposed to 20 was going in the right direction, so I started on MS Contin. Boy was I wrong. Just one day off of them and the physical withdrawels were 10 times what it was off the others. I am now down to 1 pill left, and I'm terrified of what I will go through, but I DON'T WANT TO GET MORE PAIN MEDS. Please, can someone help me? Tell me what to do. I'm scared.

sister ........ I have been reading these threads, and something abut COWs score, which I have never heard of. Can somebody please tell me what to do or where I can go to get help to quit?

The COWS worksheet stands for clincal opioid w/d scale. That is the way your w/d symptoms are scored to determine if you're in severe enough w/d to begin your sub induction. You don't want to begin too soon or you put yourself into what's called precipitated w/d. It's LOTS worse than the regular w/d you're trying to get out of.

Subs are expensive but the patent on the drug has expired and there is now a generic available for subutex. There is no suboxone generic but you can use the generic subutex. I talked with a patient recently (within the last week) who had their insurance pay for the generic subutex and their copay was only $4.00 for 30 pills. THAT IS AMAZING!!!

Granted that is the cheapest price I've heard but it was just recently. So if you go to a legitmate dr that will prescribe the generic subutex (which I prefer using to suboxone anyway) it's lots cheaper than suboxne. It would STILL have to be LOTS cheaper than suboxone even with no insurance with that price having insurance.

You can go to www.suboxone.com and enter your zip code and the number of miles you're willing to drive. They'll give you a list of all the certified sub drs in that area. Get on the phone and start calling the offices. It's worth it for the generic buprenorpine. Explain to the dr that you need the generic of subutex which is just buprenophine due to finances, the active ingredient in both subutex and suboxone. Suboxone also has naloxone if you're an IV drug user. But I would get the generic buprenorphine. Call around to the drs on the list until you find one that will work wih you.

Let me know if I can help you further. God bless.

[sister39]

Thanks guys.. I will start calling. I read that these terrible withdrawel symptoms only last a week or so, but I am terrified of them. The longest I went through them was 3 days, but i couldn't do anything. I couldn't work, couldn't sleep. I am barely hanging on by a thread now, if I don't work, I don't have a room to sleep in, food, car, etc. I have no support system, and I am terrified. I get the whole 9 yards, diarrhea, vomiting, sweats, RLS, can't sleep, extreme anxiety, every time I try to sit down I have to jump up again. I get suicidal. Man. I am going to call some docs, and see if anyone can work with me.

[sister39]

Well, I just called the 5 in my area. They want $250 to walk in the door, and I was just counting my money and I have $5.65. lol I guess I am cold turkying it. I'm so scared. I read on one of these threads to get immodium and it may help. What do you think of this? I don't want more pain pills, but for $100 I can get more pills this weekend, and I don't want to. I want to make it through. I can't stand being like this anymore.

[melinda7.5]

Hi Sister
Robert is getting you the Thomas recipe see if you can get some of the things on there, the imodium is going to be the most important... we will be here to talk you thru it, and as Robert says you only have to do this once...
and as I always say .. your best days are yet to come... hang with us for a few days and this will all be behind you..
talk soon, Melinda

[Robert_325]

Well, I just called the 5 in my area. They want $250 to walk in the door, and I was just counting my money and I have $5.65. lol I guess I am cold turkying it. I'm so scared. I read on one of these threads to get immodium and it may help. What do you think of this? I don't want more pain pills, but for $100 I can get more pills this weekend, and I don't want to. I want to make it through. I can't stand being like this anymore.

sister ..... well that totally sucks! I wish that I had some better advice for you. Is there no one in your family that you could borrow a couple hundred from.? If you got only one full script I could walk you through this.

If that is not an option the best way to cold turkey is what is called the Thomas Recipe. You can run it on google and you'll see all kinds of links to it, just to reassure you that this isn't some goofy way to do this and make you feel a little better about what you're doing. The Thomas Recipe has worked for LOTS of people here. Here is the link. Let me know what else I can do to help you.. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...html#post68110

[sister39]

ok, so this weekend I can get all this stuff but the valium. What can you use if you don't have any benny's? last time i went through withdrawel of MS Contin, I almost od'd on OTC sleep aides and antihystimines, just trying to sleep. I mean really OD"d. I couldn't stand up without falling over, yet I still couldn't hold still or sleep. I don't want to accidently kill myself, (joking, but not really. At least on here you all know what I mean). I will get the vitamen stuff saturday when I get paid, but what should I substitue for the benny's.
No, I wish I had help out here, but I don't. I am getting ready to lose the registration and insurance on my car this weekend if I don't come up with $400. Both expire on friday, and I only will make about $250 this weekend. That doesn't even include gas, food, or rent money. Ugh, I hate that I got here. I was a cocaine addict years ago, lost two children over it and became homeless, but have been clean 16 years off of that. I am one year away from a BSN degree now. I NEVER thought that opiate withdrawel would be so much tougher than the coke. I put myself through three different rehabs trying to get clean off the other, one of these was in patient for 2 years, but I still went out and used. When I was done, I was just done. Cocaine had all mental withdrawels for me, and I was able to work through those. This physical withdrawel is a whole different ballgame.
what sucks is you can go get scripts for percs for $30, but you have to put out around $500 to get to a Dr and get a script to get clean. Thanks again everybody. I am going to keep reading and keep coming back here, and I will let you know this weekend when I get the vitamens. Let me know again what I can substitute for the valium. I am checking into NA's in the area, although they only meet twice a week around here

[caughtagain]

HI Sis, Welcome to the forum.. I understand where you are at. I overcame Wd's from Oxy and Vic's going to work and going CT as well with no Benny's. How do you do it? Just have the attitude that no matter how bad you feel, it will only last 5 days and you NEVER want to feel this again. Embrace that attitude and just treat the symptoms for those days. Drink plenty of fluids, take immodium for the runs.... basicly use the Thomas Recipe minus the Benzo;s. What I used was Sleepytime tea and Tylenol PM at night. Also, take a hot shower about an hour before bed. Then drink the tea and take the Tylenol PM. Also, if you can get some cardio in that would be good too. Get those natural endorphins. But listen, you did this before with cocaine, so you already have the strength to do it and now you have us here to guide you. Post and post often. USe this as your journal. Tell us what you are going through and we will post. Hang in there. Read and post,, repeat.......................CA

[Robert_325]

sister ...... you can use valerian root or gaba for anxiety, St John's Wort helps with depression. All are available at a vitamin store like GNC, probably they will be available at the pharmacy at walmart. The Gaba and Valerian Root are probably the best bet and least expensive. keep us posted how you're doing. God bless.

[sister39]

yes, thank you all. My biggest hurdle right now, and one I am working on, is thinking minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. I have a tendency to get way overwhelmed by thinking into the future.All I have control over is right now, and right now I am not using. Getting my life together is in my hands. I will hold all your cyber hands though, I am glad for the support.

[PeterRabbit2]

Just remember, opiate withdrawal can be....is......extremely uncomfortable but normally harmless. You need supportive care (immodium to prevent dehydration, clonidine for the other somatic symptoms, such as sweating, anxiety and fast heartbeat), but if you just grind through it, as far as I understand, nothing catastrophic will happen to you. For the first week, Valium is also very helpful and relatively cheap.

[Robert_325]

Peter ....... imodium does NOTHING for dehydration. It's for diarrhea symptoms. The diarrhea is what causes dehydration. Drink Gatorade to replace the lost electrolytes from the dehydration.

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edit - by DDCmod
Peter is correct - Imodium will stop the diarrhea and help prevent dehydration. Do not take straight Gatorade if you have diarrhea, You are are far better to take an electrolyte replacement solution like Pedialyte.
DDCmod

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[PeterRabbit2]

Peter ....... imodium does NOTHING for dehydration. It's for diarrhea symptoms. The diarrhea is what causes dehydration. Drink Gatorade to replace the lost electrolytes from the dehydration.

Okay. Ending the diarrhea will prevent fluid loss thereby avoiding dehydration? I suppose all the sweating could lead to electrolyte imbalances, so yeah, Pedialyte
would be the go-to fluid replacement. I'm not sold on the efficacy of Gatorade in such situations....too much sugar and not enough sodium and potassium.

I think this is the recipe for Pedialyte. It's cheaper!

2 quarts water
2 tablespoons sugar
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon potassium chloride salt substitute
1/2 teaspoon salt
Flavoring is optional.

Mix and (yuck) enjoy.

[Robert_325]

You can mix all that junk together and clean up the mess when you're done.. I'll spend $1.49 and buy a bottle of Gatorade.

edit - by DDCmod
IMPORTANT - Do not take straight Gatorade if you have diarrhea. You are are far better to take an electrolyte replacement solution like Pedialyte.
DDCmod

[melinda7.5]

yes, thank you all. My biggest hurdle right now, and one I am working on, is thinking minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. I have a tendency to get way overwhelmed by thinking into the future.All I have control over is right now, and right now I am not using. Getting my life together is in my hands. I will hold all your cyber hands though, I am glad for the support.

Hi Sister
I'm the same way ...when I quit all of the drugs I was on I swear I had a three month long panic attake..
but looking back it was all my falt with all the negative thinking I was doing...
so I replaced it with positive thinking...I would put motivational stuff on my I-pod and listen to it all day...
It really helped me...
I started thinking about when I got clean and what I wanted to do with my life...
NOT the ten grand I spent on drugs in the past year...
just get thru the first day and get ONE day clean and MAN that feels good !!!

I have used soma to help ease the w/d it helped me sleep...
or serquil I used that before to ...take a look in the medicine cabinet...and see what ya got in there...LOL ...
sister really just hang in with us like CA said post to us it really does help
we have been there and know what you are going thru...

talk to you later, Melinda

[sister39]

I wish I had all these pills that people are talking about. i am an addict. Any meds like this i would have taken long ago. lol. No I am broke with nothing. The WD's are slowly starting to kick in now. My nose is running as are my eyes. My stomach is starting to cramp. Now bad yet, but I know the begining signs. I find myself sitting here wondering how I will get through tomorrow, or the next day at work. I hve to stop that. I just can worry about right now. I am trying to focus on movies on TV, and working on reeling my mind back in when it wanders. Thanks again all. You are awesome
Hey, BTW, if I don't post in the next couple of days, it could probably be the WD's are too bad. I know when I was going through them before I couldn't even face picking up the computer. It took too much concentration and sitting still for too long. I'm going to try, but I just know how I reacted in the past.

[melinda7.5]

Hi Sis
I understand if you don't post, when I look back on my thread when I was in w/d it was pretty funny..I couldn't even spell...if you can just try to say your OK so we know your still with us even if you just put a smiley face on here would be ok...
remember it will get better...
I watched the lord of the rings movies...they were really good w/d movies..
talk soon, Melinda

[PeterRabbit2]

You can mix all that junk together and clean up the mess when you're done.. I'll spend $1.49 and buy a bottle of Gatorade.

It's not junk, it's cheap Pedialyte.

The only reason I push the point is that Gatorade has too much sugar and not enough sodium and potassium to be optimally re-hydrating.

Maybe cut the Gatorade by half with water and add 1/4 tsp each baking soda and salt
per quart with a side of bananas!

ANYWAY....

I've made the preparation for myself last time I was puking my guts out of both ends (from our friend, influenza) and was able to maintain my weight (avoiding dehydration.)

[cheekysod]

Hi Sis
I understand if you don't post, when I look back on my thread when I was in w/d it was pretty funny..I couldn't even spell...if you can just try to say your OK so we know your still with us even if you just put a smiley face on here would be ok...
remember it will get better...
I watched the lord of the rings movies...they were really good w/d movies..
talk soon, Melinda

good on ya melinda, filmed in good ol en zed, if you seen them, you seen how beautiful our country is ay. woo hoo. im sure peter jackson would boak if he knew you said they were good wd movies, too funny.!! to be honest, i didnt even watch the 3rd one, got too bored. ah well, theyre on dvd these days, one day i might watch them and see the whole story.

hey sis, good on ya girl, im also an addict, mostly opiates, but did a 3 year stint on crystal meth iv, got really skinny, not now lol. bit cuddly these days. heh heh.

eat heaps of bananas if you can, coz i know eating is usually the last thing on your mind, but they have potassium (meant to be good) and they will put something in your gut.

you can do it mate,

cheeky kiwi

[sister39]

Thanks guys. Yep, I have trouble keeping the weight on too. I am naturally thin, but last WD I had I lost 10 pounds. At 44 years old, 5'7" and 110, I looked sickly thin. I want this to be my last WD ever. Its been so long since my every waking thought wasn't about a pill, that I just can't wait for that to happen. I remember when it did when I got off the cocaine. It was great.
I know I'm worrying ahead, but i have a pre cancer in my breast that the doc has been following. I go through the IN the Pink program as I have a family history and get my treatment free, thank god. Alls well, but the lump is growing again and I go in for my mammo and ultrashound in a week, and I worry what if they have to do surgery and remove the breast? My mom and sister had this done. Through all the surgeries I have had I found nothing stopped the pain but narcotics, but I don't know if this is just my addiction talking. I have an autoimmune disorder that includes CRPS(complex regional pain syndrome) if anyone if familiar with this. It takes what is actually a managable body pain and the brain interprets it as unbearable pain. My joints swell and my extremities turn purple and black when I am in a flare. Just saying, the thought of any surgery, however minor, scares me too because the pain is horrible. How do you manage chronic pain conditions with addiction? I know I have both, so I'm not going to lie to myself. There are times when my condition is in remission and my pain is very managable, but my addiction still rages, so I know the difference. That is why I want to get clean.
Ok, I'm ranting and venting, but where else can I do it? Thanks for the ears guys.Congrats on being clean cheeky

[LilMis]

Sister,
You can do this. I'm not sure what to tell you for the chronic pain. I am dealing with the chronic pain, it's really bad right now but before I stopped the meds it wasn't hurting I was just taking the meds to keep from getting sick. I know that my mind is playing tricks on me right now telling me how bad im hurting which the pain is real, so i'm dealing with it. Its not easy, by far. I hope that you will find an alternative treatment for your pain.

Good luck to you and I wish you the best. vent away hun, I know how that feels. I sometimes just have to get it out before i cry.

Lil

[PeterRabbit2]

Sister, you can always vent on me and just about everyone here. When I first came here, I was....not very understanding...you and those in your predicament have helped me grow in ways you can't imagine. I owe a lot of people on this forum a debt of much more than gratitude.

Thank you. You're doing good deeds just by being here and sharing your struggles. Godspeed!

[doc.rose]

Just remember, opiate withdrawal can be....is......extremely uncomfortable but normally harmless. You need supportive care (immodium to prevent dehydration, clonidine for the other somatic symptoms, such as sweating, anxiety and fast heartbeat), but if you just grind through it, as far as I understand, nothing catastrophic will happen to you. For the first week, Valium is also very helpful and relatively cheap.

I think what Peter meant was take immodium to prevent diarrhea, because if you have enough diarrhea, you can get dehydrated. He just needed to explain what he meant better. Most people know that Immodium doesn't prevent dehydration, Good luck Sis

[doc.rose]

Hi Sister39! You can do this! Stay positive and fight through the symptoms. Try and post as much as you can to get support and motivation. If you isolate yourself, you might think too much about your drug of choice. So post often and let us support you through this. Take care!!

[LilMis]

Sister,
Hope you are ok today!

Lil

[PeterRabbit2]

I think what Peter meant was take immodium to prevent diarrhea, because if you have enough diarrhea, you can get dehydrated. He just needed to explain what he meant better. Most people know that Immodium doesn't prevent dehydration, Good luck Sis

Yes, thats what I meant. Thanks for the added info.

That, along with Pedialyte should nip any dehydration problems in the bud.

About dehydration...one of the best ways to tell if you are becoming dehydrated is your weight and your urine color. For example, if you lose 10lbs in 12 hours, that's likely a sign of rather severe dehydration. If you maintain or even increase your weight, and your urine is nearly clear, you are well hydrated. Watch the color of your urine, the darker it is, the more dehydrated you are. It should be, at the darkest, lemon yellow. Cola colored urine is a sign of serious dehydration and if not corrected soon through oral fluid intake, could indicate the need for IV fluids. The chances of the latter are slim, though.

I hope you feel better, soon Sister!

[PeterRabbit2]

How do you manage chronic pain conditions with addiction?

The short answer is: On your own, you can't. If you get that bottle of pain pills in your own hand, you will lose control and have to go through ALL this discomfort over and over and over.....not a pretty picture, is it?

The long answer is:

If narcotics are needed in the future, have a trusted family member hold the pills for you and dispense them. Perhaps a two day supply at a time. If you're in severe pain because of surgery, and lose control over that 2 day supply, you'll just have the agony of the incision to bear for the interim.

Have set times to take the pain pills and don't deviate even one second early in dosing. Keeping in mind your past, this could be a tenuous setup at best. Consider it very carefully and talk to your doctor, surgeon and family about your worries.

You could use the potent NSAID Toradol for up to 5 days after surgery. Hopefully, that's all you'd need.

My thoughts are with you.

[sister39]

very very antsy this morning. I have to go run errend, and I am trying to work myself up to it before these symptoms get really bad. gonna go take a shower. wish me luck everybody

[PeterRabbit2]

Good luck! Don't forget the Pedialyte. You might need it. I think Wal-mart makes a generic version of it.