[WVU_Mountaineers]

Lets see if we can get this straightened out after all, I know I am "currently" concerned about this topic.
I am concerned about the generic drugs and especially Oxycottin now that I am taking it, I have taken my prescriptions to 4 differant drug stores during my stay w/oxy's, Of course each visit was when my perscription was due and by the same doctor, I don't want anyone to think I was drug store hopping with differant doctors, I first recieved name brand Oxy's, which I thought was generic since the scrip read "generic brand ok", But I got the name brand I suppose anyway, it was a little yellow pill that read OC/40.
These seem to work fine in stabilizing my pain, However during a differant fill, I was at another store, Maybe Giant Eagle or in another part of town, I suppose I was there for some other reason or I would have filled my script at the same drug store I did originally to save the insurance/workers comp paper work.
But I recieved a differant looking pill, I never questioned it, My wife said it was generic, she said it all works the same! But after trying I think 3 or 4 differant types/brands, depending on weather 40mg or 80mg, I noticed I was not getting pain relief that I normally recieved from these newer pills, I never said anything in fear that I would end up looking like an idiot for whinning about it, but then I started filling them at the same store to get the name brand since they always gave me those, But this time they gave me some football shaped yellow pill, And the bottle says "Oxycodone" Sub for Oxycottin, I never said anything to anyone, not even my wife, But yeterday she told me that a girl at curves told her that a couple people she knows were complaining that the generic oxys were not as effeciant or effective for thier pain, So I spoke up and told her that I noticed a diffeance big time.
TRUE OR IN OUR HEAD?

Kick that monkey's a$$!

Montani_semper_liberi "Mountaineers are always free"

[lizery]

If you got oxycodone you got the wrong prescription. Oxycontin is a time released pill while oxycodone ( percocet,tylox) is a short acting pain reliever. Also, I don't know why, but I totally agree that different generic brands are less affective. Like with the hydrocodone, the plain white generics seem to be better than the ones put out by vintage pharm. The watsons seem to be the strongest. I have no idea how it can vary so much but it does.

Liz


just hold on

[zippysgoddess]

Actually lizery is [u]incorrect</u>! It is all Oxycodone, that is the name of the drug, Oxycontin was just a name brand from one company that had a limited time proprietary patent. The actual time released drug is either Oxycodone CR (controlled release) or Oxy ER (extended release.) The short acting is Oxy IR (Immediate Release) or other name brands such as Roxicodone.

Percocet and Tylox actually are not just the immediate release Oxycodone either, they contain it as well as Acetaminophen. And still, once again those are all [u]NAME BRANDS</u>! As I said the active drug itself is OXYCODONE!


[u]Before offering advice lizery, you should really do a little research. </u>

http://www.drugs.com/oxycontin.html

http://www.drugs.com/oxycodone.html

http://www.pbm.va.gov/criteria/oxycodonecriteria.pdf

http://www.northcumbriahealth.nhs.uk...al/pain/05.php



Now, as to why they differ, once that proprietary patent period is over and the drug can be manufactured by any interested drug company as a generic, they do not have to undergo the vigorous testing that the original company did. They just get their hands on the active ingredient, in this case Oxycodone Extended Release and start manufacturing pills.

They have no requirements to use the same binders or fillers, which are the inactive ingredients, so this can have an effect on some people and how well the drug works for them and they also have no requirements to provide a drug that is 100% like the original name brand, as a matter of fact, the FDA lets them differ by as much as +/- 20% on the active ingredients.

Since this can often result in poor quality control because of the rush to get them on the market and make money, some company's pills do work better than others. A good example of this was the Able Labs recall and shut down that happened last year. Their quality control was so bad that you could have a bottle of pills all from the same batch and they could all vary greatly in the active ingredient.

At one point I was taking their generic of Darvocet N100, which contains Propoxyphene 100mgs and Acetaminophen 650mgs. In the same bottle I had pills that had so little effect that I might as well have been swallowing TicTacs, others that worked fine, and still others that made me sick as a dog like I had taken to many.

So no, it is not in your head. When you get the name brand, you are almost always assured of getting good quality pills because they do have to have rigorous quality control for their pill manufacturing process since they are the first ones who got it approved for release on the market. They had to past dozens, sometimes hundreds of FDA approval tests.


verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[lizery]

Well Zippy, I am really not sure why you seem to have a bug up your butt. I have never claimed to be a professional and to my knowledge what I said WAS right. It wasn't massively researched but it was right. Please, just try to correct people without the condescending attitude. It doesn't come over well online.

Liz


just hold on

[zippysgoddess]

Well when you are dealing with drugs, you should not give information you cannot be 100% certain of, your information was NOT even close to being right. You could cause someone serious harm by providing the wrong information.

If this person had listened to you, and thought they had all immediate release Oxy, and taken them as often as you would the immediate release, they could have overdosed and had serious medical consequences.

No, your information WAS NOT right, that is the problem. You have total misinformation about the drug. My information is CORRECT and you can research and check it out to verify it if you wish, I guarantee you will NOT find information to support what you said.

You cannot play around with drug information, it is way too dangerous to provide someone with incorrect information.

You can try to say it was right all you want, but IT WAS NOT! The reality of the world should teach you that it doesn't matter what you THINK is right, if it is wrong, then no amount of "WELL I THOUGHT IT WAS RIGHT, SO THEREFORE IT WAS" will really make it so.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[lizery]

You missed the point as usual,but that's OK.

Liz


just hold on

[zippysgoddess]

I missed the point as usual? How on earth would you know? You have not talked to me before and do not know me at all.

You missed the point of admitting you made a mistake and you should not provide information just because you THINK it is correct.

Do you understand yet, the difference between the drugs and why you made an error? You were assuming based on name brands and rumors, not on the facts!

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[lizery]

I guess you don't remember the other times when you have posted in such a snappy way. That's ok.

Liz


just hold on

[zippysgoddess]

Interesting considering the fact that I actually have a very good reputation on this board for being friendly. People email me for drug ID's or medical information whenever they want to be sure of not being judged and keeping something private.

I do not make it a habit to post in such a "snappy" way, but gee, it's nice to know you keep tabs on all my posts.

You haven't even been here long enough to have read or be familiar with most of my posts, but it is obvious you have severe issues with admitting that you have made a mistake, and instead of admitting it, you have turned it into a personal attack.

I am done with you, GET OVER IT!

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[lizery]

lol. Whatever.

Liz


just hold on

[lizery]

And I try not to read your posts very often so maybe it is just the few you have responded to that I happened to have replied to. I wasn't saying my facts were all right on, I was trying to explain how the generics seem to be different,yet I didn't know why they would be different. I would [u]hope</u> that anyone who is taking medication for any reason would go by their DR's recommendations and not what some person on a random website tells them. I was trying to let you know that your posts come across very self-righteous and condescending. I guess you are not real worried about that though.

Liz


just hold on

[zippysgoddess]

How on earth can you try to deny what you said when it is up there right where it can be read over and over again?


"If you got oxycodone you got the wrong prescription. Oxycontin is a time released pill while oxycodone ( percocet,tylox) is a short acting pain reliever."

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[lizery]

Oh my goodness, why can't you understand what I am saying? TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE IF YOU GET SOMETHING THAT SAYS OXYCODONE,PLAIN OXYCODONE YOU ARE NOT GETTING AN EXTENDED RELEASE PILL LIKE OXYCONTIN. I am not a DR nor do I play one on TV. I also am not a pharmacist. LIKE I SAID, generics brand do differ and I said I HAD NO IDEA WHY. Possibly, just POSSIBLY, you are reading what I wrote wrong. Just maybe. LOL this is bizarre to say the least.

Liz


just hold on

[lizery]

As far as the posts where you seem to not get what people are saying, here is one where you replied directly to me.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16676

hth

Liz


just hold on

[zippysgoddess]

BUT YOU ARE STILL GETTING OXY! There is no PILL THAT IS PLAIN OXYCODONE! It is either Oxycodone IR for instant release, or Oxycodone CR or ER for the generic 12 hour Oxycontin. THEY ARE ALL CALLED OXYCODONE, then just IR, CR, or ER to designate which they are, which shows if they are generic for Oxycontin or not!

Geez, didn't you check out any of the links I posted? This is what I was trying to explain the whole time.

They are all OXYCODONE that is just the generic name of the drug, how it is made is what designates it as a 12 hour or instant release. Oxycontin was only a NAME BRAND. It can still be a 12 hour and called Oxycodone. There are none that are dispensed just as Oxycodone, they will all have designations as either IR, ER, or CR. Even the ones in Roxicet or Tylox are designated as the IR (instant release) Oxy.

Do you understand what I am saying now? Yes, Oxycodone can still be Oxycontin, it just depends on how it is made, the pill bottle should have the markings on it of CR or ER that will tell you it is a generic Oxycontin, or IR if it is one of the other instant release ones. But they are all made from Oxycodone, that is the base drug.

I also explained why the generics are different, blame the FDA for that.

That post was purely a misunderstanding based on the fact that you were not clear that it was directed to addicts, so it made it seem you were directing it towards all pain pill users. You need to be specific as not all people are on these boards just because they have an addiction problem.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[zippysgoddess]

Just to try and clarify a little more, Morphine is another good example of this, it comes in both a time released 12 hour version and an instant release version. It was called different things under the name brands, but all are still based on morphine and that is still the drug in them.

I am sorry this thread has you so upset. But you need to realize that just because it is called Oxycodone that doesn't necessarily mean it is an instant release.

I was taking Oxycodone CR 20mgs for the pain from my disability twice a day, this is a generic for Oxycontin, the CR as I said designates it as controlled release, for breakthrough pain I had Oxycodone IR 5mgs up to 3 times a day as needed. This is an instant release so it works fast to help control pain while the longer acting version is working. But my pill bottles, as the generics said Oxycodone CR 20mg generic for Oxycontin and the other one just says Oxy IR 5mgs.

My insurance will no longer cover any form of Oxycontin, so I have since had to switch to a generic for MS Contin which is Morphine Sulfate CR, a 12 hour controlled release and I still have the instant release Oxy 5mgs for breakthrough pain.

So just because a drug isn't called MS Contin or Oxycontin, doesn't mean it isn't controlled release, you have to look at the other information on the drug as well to see what it is. The generic would read either Oxycodone or Morphine and then the additional letters to let you know how long it acts in the body.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[lizery]

I apologize for being snappy myself. I felt like I was being misunderstood. That being said, I have had tylox and percocet that simply said oxycodone. Just the little mg thing after it. I guess that is where I become confused. It also makes me think that there is a possibility that pharmacies simply classify them in different ways. I have also been prescribed zydone. Plain old zydone. BTW it made me hallucinate. It was hideous. I took 2 and gave the rest to my BIL.

Liz


just hold on

[zippysgoddess]

I am very sorry to have upset you and come across as rude and condescending. The reason they don't always mark the Oxy in those pills as being the instant release is because the whole pill is instant release, the Oxy and the Acetaminophen. None of those mixed pills have the long acting Oxycodone in them, sorry for the misunderstanding.

The classifications I am using are from the government-FDA, not the pharmacies.

So you have to remember that the pills you are speaking of are combo pills, they all have Oxy with Acetaminophen and a doc will normally prescribe those first to see if they can control your pain with a shorter acting version of the drug as most docs hate to put you on something long acting and overmedicate if you don't need it.

The ones that are just plain Oxy with nothing else are all called Oxycodone, then they have the designations that I listed after them.

Like I said, it just goes to the real name of the drug and that is what the generics are normally sold under.

When the original poster (who irony of ironies never returned through our whole debate) said it was generic for OC80, I knew he was talking about the long acting Oxycodone which lasts for 12 hours as that was the name brand Oxycontin pills. The name brand of the short acting Oxycodone was Roxicodone and Roxifast, may have been a few others depending on how many divisions the proprietary patent company had.

Anyway, wow did we sure get off on the wrong foot. Once again, I am very sorry about that. If you ever do have any questions about meds or medical conditions, or you want to double check any information please feel free to email anytime, I am always happy to help. You are not the first person I have known that misunderstood a drug, because once those generics come out and flood the market it does get confusing as to what is what.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[zippysgoddess]

I also have to say that one of my major pet peeves, and I am seeing it more and more in posts on here, is when I see a chronic pain patient whose doctor will only prescribe those short acting ones like you mentioned. When someone has severe, long-term pain, those pills will just not cut it, they need something that will control their pain for long periods of time. The pills that you mentioned are only good for 4 to 6 hours, even less for severe pain, so the patient ends up either taking too much or suffering and then so many docs and other people wonder why they end up using street drugs or abusing narcotics.

I often advise them to seek another doctor if their doc won't give them more help than that.



By the way, I was not familiar with Zydone and had to look it up, yes, you would have been prescribed just Zydone as it is also a combo drug, it contains Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone, both short acting pain relievers, and Zydone is a proprietary (brand) name, just like Vicodin or Darvocet, but the actual ingredients are the real drugs under their chemical or assigned name.

http://www.drugs.com/PDR/Zydone_Tablets.html



verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[skunx88]

zippysgoddess is correct. If anyone knows about oxycontin it would be me, not something I am real proud of, but I do know it. Oxycontin is pure Oxycodone. Percocet, is oxycodone and acetaminophen (tylenol). and yes there is a difference in strength, brand seems to be more potent, so its not just in your head.

[lizery]

Well let me ask ya'll this. When I had surgery last year I was prescribed precocet. It literally did nothing for my pain, I didn't sleep for 24 hours after my surgery and was back at the surgery center the next morning in agony. He then gave me mepergan? Not sure of the spelling. Anyway, that was a little better but it also made hallucinate. What is up with that? I take lortab more than I should now but even for acute pain it doesn't really help. What is wrong with me? I have to have minor surgery again next month but for future reference is there another type of pain medication out there that might help my pain better? Why do I hallucinate? When I say hallucinate I mean I seem to be in a semi-concious state,able to hear but the talking I hear it either distorted or what they are saying is outrageous. When i took the zydone, I literally was like in a waking dream and was seeing things.Has anyone ever reacted to pain meds like that?

Liz


just hold on

[WVU_Mountaineers]

Thank you so much for the advise, I greatly appreciate it, I think I either went for m methadone to Oxy with withdrawl systoms from a normal situation or those oxy's I got were not as they are claiming to be bcause I went thru withdrawl symptoms the whole time, Causeing me to end up short.

Its been hell, I sometimes wonder how big a wussy I must be or this is one aggravating, horrabile, nightmare of an trip, I never want to depend on a drug again as long as I LIVE, I am on my 4th day without and I will not accept Oxy again, or methadone, as they say its worse which leads me to wonder if thats why I hab d the withdrawls all along, I thought I should be weined off by my last one, but, ha, ha, WHAT a joke that was.
My advise to all, don't go cold turkey!

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE and I Aappligize for starting the agruement, maybe you will end up as friends becausde of it, you both seem like good people! don't change!
Sincerely, Me

quote:Originally posted by zippysgoddess

BUT YOU ARE STILL GETTING OXY! There is no PILL THAT IS PLAIN OXYCODONE! It is either Oxycodone IR for instant release, or Oxycodone CR or ER for the generic 12 hour Oxycontin. THEY ARE ALL CALLED OXYCODONE, then just IR, CR, or ER to designate which they are, which shows if they are generic for Oxycontin or not!

Geez, didn't you check out any of the links I posted? This is what I was trying to explain the whole time.

They are all OXYCODONE that is just the generic name of the drug, how it is made is what designates it as a 12 hour or instant release. Oxycontin was only a NAME BRAND. It can still be a 12 hour and called Oxycodone. There are none that are dispensed just as Oxycodone, they will all have designations as either IR, ER, or CR. Even the ones in Roxicet or Tylox are designated as the IR (instant release) Oxy.

Do you understand what I am saying now? Yes, Oxycodone can still be Oxycontin, it just depends on how it is made, the pill bottle should have the markings on it of CR or ER that will tell you it is a generic Oxycontin, or IR if it is one of the other instant release ones. But they are all made from Oxycodone, that is the base drug.

I also explained why the generics are different, blame the FDA for that.

That post was purely a misunderstanding based on the fact that you were not clear that it was directed to addicts, so it made it seem you were directing it towards all pain pill users. You need to be specific as not all people are on these boards just because they have an addiction problem.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

Kick that monkey's a$$!

Montani_semper_liberi "Mountaineers are always free"

[zippysgoddess]

Well Liz, anyone can build up a tolerance to a certain drug or a certain dose if you take if for quite awhile. Oxycodone is actually one that does this with a very short span. My guess would be that you have been taking them for so long that your body is used to that dose and it is no longer effective for you.

Percocet is comprised of short acting Oxycodone and Acetaminophen, and for chronic or acute pain, it often doesn't last long enough or isn't strong enough to really do that job.

Mepergan is another type of narcotic called Promethazine with Meperidine, http://www.dentalarticles.com/dotc99.htm, apparently it worked better for you than the Oxy with Acetaminophen.

Lortab is short acting Hydrocodone with Acetaminophen.

The hallucinating that you describe can be normal side effects of these types of drugs, and usually wear off, depending on your body chemistry, anywhere from a few days to a few weeks of taking it regularly. The reason for this is because the drugs also have a sedative effect.

Don't be afraid to tell the prescribing doctor what works for, what doesn't and what kind of side effects you experience. They will take your advice to heart and try to find the best thing for you to use that will help the most with pain while causing the least amount of side effects. You might need a temporary regimen that is similar to what I am on, a long acting with a short for breakthrough pain, or just a higher dose of Oxy without the Acetaminophen.

No problem WVU, we are happy to help, and the argument is over and forgotten. Yes, you should have been weaned off any major narcotics like those.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[clooch]

Dear Lippysgoddess:

It sounds like you know alot about the chemistry of painkillers. My brother has recently had a terrible fall down his wooden stair case and has broken a shoulder blade and severed the other shoulder. He unfortunately suffers from severe depression and has taken Zoloft-75mgs a day for the depression. He has been on Zoloft on and off for the last few years. He also is a huge insomniac and until recently was taking buckets of Ambien. His shrink has since cut him off of that and actually broken-up with him.

My concern is that this accident has resulted in him taking Vicodin/Motrin every 2 to 4 hours, all day long. I understand that the pain he must be feeling is horrible. I am just worried that the Vicodin will nulify the Zoloft?

He has been talking about suiside the last few days but he has been acting completely strange. He has been on these drugs now for 8 days. He hasn't bathed or left the house other than THREE visits to the E.R. because he claims he is having migraines. They shoot him full of drugs and then he sleeps it off. He says the only time he feels relief from his pain/life is when he sleeps.

He is furious with me at the moment because he says I don't understand him and his pain. But before the accident all he did was complain about being cut-off of the Ambien and how horrible his life was without sleep. Now it seems like he is milking the system. I know him like nobody else does. He is a very addictive individual. How long should he remain on these painkillers and will they work against the anti-depressants? Thank you for any help/insight you can offer.

[wolftrades]

[quote]Originally posted by zippysgoddess

BUT YOU ARE STILL GETTING OXY! There is no PILL THAT IS PLAIN OXYCODONE! It is either Oxycodone IR for instant release, or Oxycodone CR or ER for the generic 12 hour Oxycontin. THEY ARE ALL CALLED OXYCODONE, then just IR, CR, or ER to designate which they are, which shows if they are generic for Oxycontin or not!

This is absolutely FALSE. I use 30 mg Roxicodone which is 30mg of Oxycodone and nothing else. It is similar to Oxy IR except there is no 30mg Oxy IR and there is 30 mg Roxicodone.

What you meant to say is that there is no label that will just say Oxycodone without adding SR for sustaimed release, IR for Instant Release. That would be a true statement. But to say there is no plain Oxycodone is false because I take 30 mg pure Oxycodone for BT.

[zippysgoddess]

Wolftrades, Roxicodone is a brand name for the instant release Oxycodone, if you are taking something with no other designation, because it is a generic for Roxicodone then it is Oxy IR whether the label says it or not. Roxicodone is an instant release Oxycodone, what I was trying to get across is that there are only TWO kinds of Oxy, either the sustained release or the instant release, there are no others in between such as "plain Oxycodone" as this would just be the instant release. A bottle that just says Oxycodone is the instant (normal) release.

Now to Clooch, no those meds will not affect his Zoloft, though the pain and those meds can make his depression worse so his dose of Zoloft is no longer effective. He can safely take higher doses of Zoloft up to 250mgs, so he really needs to talk to his doctor about upping it for awhile. It sure sounds as if he is severely crashing into depression and he needs help or it might just get worse. Whether he is furious or not, if you care about him, you need to get him help, even if that means having him involuntarily committed for a few days while they adjust his meds. If he won't cooperate in getting help, then next time he mentions suicide, call the police. That is enough for them to pick him up and take him in a for a few days of observation. Being cut off the Ambien cold turkey can also be aggravating all of this and causing him withdrawal symptoms that can just make things worse.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[zippysgoddess]

Wolftrades, here is a page so you can see that Roxicodone, Oxy IR and even Percolone are all the same thing, Just proprietary names.

http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Use...codone,00.html

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[lizery]

Let me clarify,when I had the surgery I was not taking any type of painkillers beforehand. This one surgery was a year and half ago and the one prior was 6 years ago. It has only been in the last year or so after several surgeries and procedures that I have been taking hydrocodone just for the "fun" of it.

Liz


just hold on

[smileagain]

Clooch,
Why on earth would your brother's doctor just stop seeing him. Doctor's Suck. What if you tell your brother if you take him to another doctor he'll probably give him something to help him sleep. That will probably get him to go. Also while he his there the doctor will probably increase his zoloft. Try that and let us know.
good luck
smileagain

[zippysgoddess]

There are actually several reasons he might have stopped treating him, the biggest is usually because of patient non-compliance with the treatment regimen. If he was skipping appointments, not taking meds as prescribed and etc. The doc can and will cut him off.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~