Full Disclosure

[PeterRabbit2]

Okay...Here's where I am.

As I see it.

I am a chronic pain patient, long term. (Disc herniations, healed lower body fractures, pelvic titanium plates, etc...from a car accident in which I was the pedestrian. The accident happened in 2002.)

I am an addict who'd like to believe he is "cleaner" (or at least in better control) than he once was. This may be a misnomer, I admit that.

I am open to the possibility that I an in denial. (At some level, I'm almost sure this is a factor.)

I am REALLY trying my best to do my best in managing my physical pain and keeping my addiction under control..

I use ~10mg per day of methadone. (That's the only narcotic floating around my system, I've discontinued ALL other narcotics some time ago - I don't remember a date)

I suffer from several conditions:asthma, substance addiction, OCD, agoraphobia, panic attacks, migraine and insomnia resulting from chronic pain - they are all under control. My addiction got it's start in 1995 from an oral surgery, I was given Demerol and just LOVED the way they made me feel. I was going through an exceptionally dysfunctional childhood (a psychotic brother (afflicted w/paranoid schizophrenia - I would get interrogated by him for hours at a time) drug-addicted siblings, a depressed mother and a senile father.)

The pills gave a profound sense of relief I'd never felt before.

So. At my worst - I was taking A LOT of Roxycodone. (I really wasn't counting but it was in the neighborhood of 400-600mg per day...I do not know an exact number.)

Now I take ~10mg per day of methadone, in part as addiction maintenance and in part to relive my physical pain. I made the swicth from Roxicodone to methadone about 3 months ago. I winnowed out the Norco about a "month-ish" ago.

I argue that even though I am NOT clean, (a fact that I am acutely aware) my doctors and I believe it is a vast improvement from the rampant abuse of Roxycodone. This is where I value opinions most.

Ruth, I respect your position and even though it seems like I'm fighting you, we ARE on the same page (I WANT to be done and finished with narcotics but between the aspirin sensitive asthma (allergy to NSAID's) and the chronic pain, I CAN'T see a different way.. Out of respect and deference to you and those who have traveled the difficult road to true sobriety, I will abstain from advising those on HOW to get clean (I scarcely know how to do that, to be SURE!)

Congratulations to all of you who have achieved sobriety, you have my deep respect and admiration.

Why do I start this thread? It just seemed like the right thing to do. I know I am not in an ideal place, I want to get there...please help me.

[cryin out]

I personally feel a step in the right direction is a good thing. Chronic pain is so hard because some of us just cannot function without help. I hope you are able to co tinue on a path that is good for your needs and that one day you can manage without medication

[PeterRabbit2]

I personally feel a step in the right direction is a good thing. Chronic pain is so hard because some of us just cannot function without help. I hope you are able to co tinue on a path that is good for your needs and that one day you can manage without medication

Thank you for the support; sometimes I feel profoundly frustrated. The thing that really gets me is the fact that I'm allergic to NSAID's. If I could take Aleve, my methadone dose would be halved right away!

Sometimes (almost always) I feel "damned if I do and damned if I don't"!!!! I'm ready to stop the narcotics, (psychologically, I'm SO over them!) but I don't dare even try because the darned pain would OVERWHELM me! I'm at a loss as to the next step; for someone with OCD who likes EVERYTHING to be in logical order this is quite a stab in the back.

The icing on the cake is the ONE non-narcotic treatment that works miracles on my pain is an epidural steroid injection. At about $16,000USD per year (substantially more than half my salary) it is WAY out my price range. I've strongly considered selling my house to pay for them, they work so well. If only I could finish my degree and get a real job I would GLADLY drop $1,300 a month to pay for it. (At that point I'd have health insurance.) My current employer, "X-Mart", does not offer health insurance for a reasonable price. The deductible is $10,000 which is hilarious, considering after the premiums of $210 monthly (I'm single) would bring my uncovered healthcare costs for the year to a grand total of $12,500! "Wow!", (said with extreme sarcasm) "What a saving!" Excuse me while I pull the eyes from the back of head.

I opt out of my company's healthcare system. It's a joke.

So that's where I am. An addict playing with fire (I know fully well that the methadone might get me into trouble down the road) I feel as though I'm at an impasse, with no way to cross.

About my conversion back to Catholic from atheist/agnostic:

I draw my inspiration from Father John Corapi. He's the one who led me back to the Church. Call it desperation or whatever, I go to the Catholic Mass every other day, If my schedule allows. I sing in the choir and sometimes play second piano to the organ. It's an hour that I can leave all my problems at the door. I feel like I'm home there.

I asked the Priest during my first confession (my last confession at the time was 23 years prior) what to do. He said pray, ask for help, listen to my doctors and seek second and third opinions.

So I come to you all, on my knees, asking for that 3rd opinion.

[ARTIST658]

To be honest, Peter - I think most of us are pretty damned tired of this stuff. (At least those of us who have been around through the many chapters of the story of PeterRabbit.) We've read more about you, your story, your illnesses and traumas and your history than we know of our own. And when you continue to change your story again and again - time after time - anything you say becomes suspect. Example? Just last week, you said you hadn't had Norco in about 6 months - now you said it was 1 month - and last week you told us you were "cleaner" and being honest. When you returned this last time with your proclamations of "full disclosure," you stated that the peak of your Roxy dosage was 360 mg - for just one week. Now, in dramatizing your story for full effect, that number has rocketed up as high as 400-600 mg a day. Enough. So again, you're being "honest."

Your dishonesty appears to have endless layers - and yet you still proclaim that *THIS* time you're being completely honest - again. "Full disclosure."

BTW, the "I'm allergic to NSAIDS" and "There's a non-narcotic treatment but I can't afford it" comments raise huge red flags with most addiction professionals, as theses are all-too-common excuses of addicts seeking narcotics. And the "keeping my addiction under control" and, "psychologically, I'm SO over them!" comments are oxymorons. You may as well be saying, "I'm keeping my insanity sane."

Peter - enough already. We could probably recite your story without prompts. We don't need more details or more promises of what's up with you. You've told a different story every time - yet every time you've claimed that *THIS* was the one true "full disclosure"! Get real. What we ask - repeatedly - is for you to be completely HONEST when you're posting on these boards. Not promising to be honest, but BEING honest. When you tell anyone here that you are clean - or in recovery - or past any cravings - or what-have-you, that's dishonest. You are addicted, and you continue to use drugs, even if it's a different drug - or at a lower dose. This is not the same thing as "clean." Drug use by an addict can not be "controlled." That flies in the face of the very definition of addiction.

AND - the worst part of what you're saying, when you post that you're clean and controlling your drug use - is that you are giving the impression that it's possible to be "clean" and "using controlled drugs" at the same time!!! That is not just ignorant - that allegation, given to the wrong person, could easily be lethal.

Peter, in order to keep this going, you need a better memory if you're going to continue to lie to a forum like this. Too many here can see right through the stuff you post; the others probably haven't been around to watch the entire drama unfold.

[PeterRabbit2]

Right now I'm so frustrated (at myself) I could vomit!

Can ANYONE recommend some reading or recommend some action? I WILL FOLLOW THE ADVICE!!!!!

I don't like being like this. I don't like confusing other people, I don't know what's wrong with me. Sometimes I think I'm crazy! If my posts are so scattered I'll stop posting!

PLEASE HELP ME!!!

Should I get a second psychiatrist, see another therapist, WHAT!?!?!

I could scream from the inner turmoil! SOMEONE PLEASE tell me the next step!!!

Ruth, I 100% respect you and look up to you; I VALUE YOUR OPINION GREATLY! (Even though I have a funny way of showing it!) I have to look it square in the face and say "The methadone IS screwing with my thought processes, THAT is NOT okay!"

I WANT to be sober - I JUST DON'T KNOW THE NEXT STEP!!!

What is the next step? I know I'm not clean. I want to be clean! I used to be clean and IT FELT GREAT! I want that feeling back! What can I do to control the pain and the addiction?

The reason I started this thread is so that I could be an open book. Well, I'm open!

[PeterRabbit2]

Please!!!! I'm desperate! (And tired.)

I WANT to be sober - I JUST DON'T KNOW THE NEXT STEP!!!

The first two lines of this post are my whole story. I know I'm not in too deep as far as chemical dependency. (I do take ONLY 10mg methadone a day; you'll have to take it on face value, but that is true.)

Should I spend some REAL time at NA?

[SomeDay]

Peter,

Your mind is just so scattered at the moment from all you are going through. It makes logical and rational thinking very difficult. We all know the feeling. It feels like a race to get clean. Your mind wants this to end in an instant, but that's not possible. Your mind and body are in a battle with reality.

You need to get clean and then give it a little time. Your mind needs time to get rewired while clean. It's not going to be fun and it's going to take a little time, but it's something you will have to do sooner or later.

I was in a similar situation when I was trying to come off opiates. I bounced from opiates to benxos to SSRI's to Gabapentin to GABA and then back through the cycle many times. I was trying to find a way of getting clean without any pain. All I did was cause more pain and delay the process. My mind was going a million miles an hour. When I quit, it continued for a while. Your mind simply wants to get back to normal ASAP. That's why it's going non stop. It's going to take a little while to process all the information it needs.

Simply put, you need to get clean and give it some time. I would consider taking a break from the psych's for a while while you are giving you mind a little time to settle. Live a simple life for a while, just until you start feeling a little better. Get a little exercise and let the days pass by. Before you know it, you have that feeling again. Good luck.

[caughtagain]

Peter... I was asked on a thread I started to give tips on how I got and stayed clean. I wrote a paragraph on what worked for me...check it out... THe part about honesty with yourself rings true to you. I must admit, trying to read your posts are very frustrating. Although you try to sound sincere, you are contradicting yourself which leads us in the direction of questioning and doubting pretty much everything you say. You have to be honest with the person in the mirror and take care of yourself. You can have all the Dr's you want but if you are not giving "full disclosure" to the man in the mirror, it just won't work and the therapy is useless. Not trying to bash, just giving you something to think about. Maybe it is time for you to hop away for a bit to work on yourself Peter Rabbit........Reid

[PeterRabbit2]

Peter,

Your mind is just so scattered at the moment from all you are going through. It makes logical and rational thinking very difficult. We all know the feeling. It feels like a race to get clean. Your mind wants this to end in an instant, but that's not possible. Your mind and body are in a battle with reality.

You need to get clean and then give it a little time. Your mind needs time to get rewired while clean. It's not going to be fun and it's going to take a little time, but it's something you will have to do sooner or later.

I was in a similar situation when I was trying to come off opiates. I bounced from opiates to benxos to SSRI's to Gabapentin to GABA and then back through the cycle many times. I was trying to find a way of getting clean without any pain. All I did was cause more pain and delay the process. My mind was going a million miles an hour. When I quit, it continued for a while. Your mind simply wants to get back to normal ASAP. That's why it's going non stop. It's going to take a little while to process all the information it needs.

Simply put, you need to get clean and give it some time. I would consider taking a break from the psych's for a while while you are giving you mind a little time to settle. Live a simple life for a while, just until you start feeling a little better. Get a little exercise and let the days pass by. Before you know it, you have that feeling again. Good luck.

Thank you! What do I do for the pain? I know I'm probably suffering from hyperalgesia. Should I taper the Methadone SUPER slowly to avoid rebound pain. If I get rebound pain, I WILL NOT hesitate to take a Methadone.

I NEED GUIDANCE!

I can't see clearly and I know it! That is what frustrates me the most! You said "Take a break from the psychs" Could you expound on that point? At one point in my life, my psychiatrist saved my life. Do you think that the time where psychiatrists were useful has passed and I need to move on to a different treatment regime?

I've always been able to see a solution, for others at least. (I'm starting to wonder if that was a delusion!) But I've NEVER been able to see a solution for myself. That's what drove me to this forum - whether I consciously knew it at the time or not.

RUTH - I'm opening up, here. WILL YOU HELP ME?!?!?

Just tell me ONE step I can take. I can't just quit cold turkey, I WILL fail. I know myself well enough to say that with 100% confidence.

What should be my next move? I'll throw myself in the hospital if I have to, I don't care anymore! I'll sell my house! I'll do ANYTHING!

[PeterRabbit2]

Peter... I was asked on a thread I started to give tips on how I got and stayed clean. I wrote a paragraph on what worked for me...check it out... THe part about honesty with yourself rings true to you. I must admit, trying to read your posts are very frustrating. Although you try to sound sincere, you are contradicting yourself which leads us in the direction of questioning and doubting pretty much everything you say. You have to be honest with the person in the mirror and take care of yourself. You can have all the Dr's you want but if you are not giving "full disclosure" to the man in the mirror, it just won't work and the therapy is useless. Not trying to bash, just giving you something to think about. Maybe it is time for you to hop away for a bit to work on yourself Peter Rabbit........Reid

Reid, thank you! You have to understand, when I can't tell the difference between exaggeration, truth and lies, I know there is SOMETHING broken in my head.

Frankly, I look at myself and I hate what I see. I see myself for what I am. I TRY to be honest but it just comes out all garbled - AND I DON'T KNOW WHY!

I know, Reid. No one is bashing me! The only one bashing me is...ME! I hate the man in the mirror and it comes out like this - "Me, me, me. Blah - blah - blah!" I'm sick of it!

PS: Where is that paragraph? And I agree, I need a "time-out" to work on myself so I can be that compassionate person that's hiding behind all these chemicals!

[PeterRabbit2]

Peter,

Your mind is just so scattered at the moment from all you are going through. It makes logical and rational thinking very difficult. We all know the feeling.

I very much know the feeling!!!

[SomeDay]

Peter,

You are in a panic. You need to calm down, take a deep breath, and settle your emotions. Take things one step at a time. You don't need to solve this problem in the next two minutes. Slow down a little. As far as methadone, I have never taken it but from what I read I believe that a taper schedule is the best way. There is much informatione elsewhere on this thread for detailed information.

As for pain, this is something you need to figure out with your doctor. You need to be honest with him and tell him about your addictions, and the fact that you want to get clean. I'm sure there are plenty of other non-narcotic options for the pain. Which pain is worse: The physical pain from your hyperalgesia or this terrible pain you are going through because of drug addiction? You may have to weigh those and determine which you can live with.

As far as taking a break from the psychs, I believe you want your mind to clear on it's own this early on in the process. There are so many thoughts that will be going through your mind. Any added information may just confuse you. Now i'm just talking on the order of several days to a week. Just enough time clean to begin producing clear and rational thoughts again.

You said you wouldn't hesitate to take methadone again. Do you really want to get clean??? It doesn't sound like it to me. You really need to decide about this. If you don't want this badly, it not going to happen. You need to take a little time to decide what your goals really are.

Read a few of these posts, but plan when you are going to take a little break as others have suggested. This is similar to my suggestion about taking a break from the psychs. You are on these boards now looking for the magic answer and reassurance. I think you have all the information you need to begin the process.

Again, calm down for a little while. Let your mind clear. Go for a walk and do some soul searching.

[caughtagain]

The thread is 2 years...

[PeterRabbit2]

Peter,

You are in a panic. You need to calm down, take a deep breath, and settle your emotions. Take things one step at a time. You don't need to solve this problem in the next two minutes. Slow down a little. As far as methadone, I have never taken it but from what I read I believe that a taper schedule is the best way. There is much informatione elsewhere on this thread for detailed information.

As for pain, this is something you need to figure out with your doctor. You need to be honest with him and tell him about your addictions, and the fact that you want to get clean. I'm sure there are plenty of other non-narcotic options for the pain. Which pain is worse: The physical pain from your hyperalgesia or this terrible pain you are going through because of drug addiction? You may have to weigh those and determine which you can live with.

As far as taking a break from the psychs, I believe you want your mind to clear on it's own this early on in the process. There are so many thoughts that will be going through your mind. Any added information may just confuse you. Now i'm just talking on the order of several days to a week. Just enough time clean to begin producing clear and rational thoughts again.

You said you wouldn't hesitate to take methadone again. Do you really want to get clean??? It doesn't sound like it to me. You really need to decide about this. If you don't want this badly, it not going to happen. You need to take a little time to decide what your goals really are.

Read a few of these posts, but plan when you are going to take a little break as others have suggested. This is similar to my suggestion about taking a break from the psychs. You are on these boards now looking for the magic answer and reassurance. I think you have all the information you need to begin the process.

Again, calm down for a little while. Let your mind clear. Go for a walk and do some soul searching.

Your right, my nose is running, I'm drenched with cold sweat, my heart is pounding, I am in a panic. I will try...I will calm down. I feel better just getting this "effing" elephant off my chest!

Okay. I'm being honest. If I taper too fast (I know myself) and the physical pain comes into the equation, I will alleviate the pain via methadone. I must find a way to avoid the physical pain, even if that means taking a HELOC to pay for my epidural steroid injections.

I DO want to be free and clear! What do you think about Lyrica while I'm tapering to avoid rebound pain?

[PeterRabbit2]

The thread is 2 years...

Thank you, I will find it. Is it in "Need to Talk?"

Right now I'm shaking like a leaf, so I'm taking a break just to get my wits about me.

I'm gonna try this: Instead of 10mg methadone today, I'm going to take a nail file and shred off about 1mg. Reducing my dose to 9mg. I'll try to stay at that for a week.

That's baby step #1.

My OCD brain wants to plan out the whole chess match but I KNOW I can't. I going mill about the pool, get some sun on my pathetically pale face. The water's about 95F degrees (35C).

I'll post back in about 8 hours.

PS: This thread is going to be my home until I am TRULY sober. I'll exclude myself from outside proceedings until I am free of ALL narcotics.

[ComingHome]

Peter, You are asking for advice, but Ruth already told you straight up. Honesty is where it all begins. Honesty with yourself and honesty with others. You say you try to tell the truth and it comes out garbled. Well, some of the things you've said are just straight lies - when you give different time frames for the same thing (Ex - when you quit taking Hyrdo), that is not an exageration or an attempt at the truth. It is just a straight lie if it differs from the FACTS. You seemed to have glossed over this advice, and you have just made excuses for why you haven't been telling the truth. You haven't owned it.

So, my advice is OWN that you are not telling the truth, quit making excuses, and start telling the truth. Period. If you think you have an issue with telling the truth (pathological lying), there is help for that also. But, this is the first step if you want to start going in the right direction.

CH

[PeterRabbit2]

Peter, You are asking for advice, but Ruth already told you straight up. Honesty is where it all begins. Honesty with yourself and honesty with others. You say you try to tell the truth and it comes out garbled. Well, some of the things you've said are just straight lies - when you give different time frames for the same thing (Ex - when you quit taking Hyrdo), that is not an exageration or an attempt at the truth. It is just a straight lie if it differs from the FACTS. You seemed to have glossed over this advice, and you have just made excuses for why you haven't been telling the truth. You haven't owned it.

So, my advice is OWN that you are not telling the truth, quit making excuses, and start telling the truth. Period. If you think you have an issue with telling the truth (pathological lying), there is help for that also. But, this is the first step if you want to start going in the right direction.

CH

You are right!!! I AM A LIAR!!!! THE LIES STOP HERE!!!! I'M SICK OF IT!

NO MORE EXCUSES!!!!

NONE!

I'm going to attend an NA meeting every week (they have not yet returned my call). I've got to get myself out of this hole. Talking one on one is far and away better than chatting here, no?

Ruth, you HAVE told me the "straight up" truth. Don't get stressed out over this, please. I appreciate your honesty more than you can ever know!

I'm going to fix this! Not with pretty words but actions in the real world. I will start at NA.

I'll keep you all posted on this thread.

God bless you all!

PS: In the short term, I'm going to increase my acetaminophen dose to 4g/day and attempt a dose reduction of Methadone to 7.5mg (from 10mg) per day. I'll be in close contact with my Dr. I don't have any benzos in my possession and will not take any; they are simply too risky.

[PeterRabbit2]

The thread is 2 years...

Thank you for that!

[PeterRabbit2]

A student of Plato once came to him and asked him how he could obtain wisdom. Plato took him down to the river and held his head under water, almost to the point of drowning the boy. Finally, he let him up; the boy gasping for air with all his being. Plato then asked the young man what he wanted most when he was being held under water. The boy replied,"I wanted air." Plato then told the young man when you want wisdom as much as you wanted air, you will obtain it!

Enoughofthis...

This little paragraph is extremely helpful in my search for truth. I know it was not originally intended for me but nonetheless it IS very VERY helpful! Right now, I'm drowning! I'll consider it a life raft that just happened to float by.

Even though we found each other by serendipity, I'll take whatever help I can get!

THANK YOU!



P.F.

[PeterRabbit2]

I'm going to "brush-up" on my Socratic logic. That ought to be a good time filler, when I'm not at work. (I am a pharmacy tech; that's no lie, FYI and LOL!)

You know? I can tell the difference between 10mg of Methadone and 7.5mg! My pain is creeping upward (I was expecting that.) and I'm recognizing some subtle withdrawal symptoms; I was NOT expecting that. (That's why I'm not asleep at 4:20am) However, all-in-all it's not too bad...yet. Thankfully, I have the next 48hrs off of work.

I think I'm going to hold my dose at 7.5mg of methadone a day for a week or maybe even two. I've got to tread lightly. After my body and mind adjust to the new dose, I can think about decreasing it again. I think the WORST thing I can do is sabotage myself and move too fast. Am I wrong?

To all who helped me, thank you so much!

To those who've given me a verbal slap in the face when I needed one, an extra-special thanks to you!!!

PS: Who on this forum did their medicine decreases on their days off? I think I may follow a similar pattern.

[ARTIST658]

Peter,

I'm not a doctor; I can't suggest what pain medication may help, lest I risk my own licensing. What I am is a substance abuse specialist - and what I can do is tell you what I see, albeit from miles away across a computer monitor. For the most part, doctors don't think like substance abuse professionals, and we don't think like doctors. What you need is doctor who is also an addiction specialist. (Think Dr. Drew, for lack of another point of reference.)

First off, as Coming Home mentioned, lying is lying - and trying to blame that on some kind of uniquely disturbed thought process is, well, lame. You are able to compose many cohesive and coherent posts in this forum. Thus, it's seems very unlikely that your abilty to think or reason is somehow uniquely challenged. I suspect your lying is simply another symptom of drug addiction, nothing more grandiouse or elaborate.

With some of us addicts, our thinking can get terribly confused - but - we wouldn't be able to write as you do in this forum. It would show abundantly in what we have to type. You are quite functional, and continue to be able to hold a job that requires thinking and memory skills.

So blaming your repeated lying and exaggerating on anything other than addiction is very unlikely. Most of your issues, as you've demonstrated here, can be summed up with that one diagnosis: drug addiction. Whether or not you're "controlling" your use, whether or not your pain is "legit" and whether or not you've taken a drug within however many hours/days/weeks - your way of thinking is addictive thinking. It shows in your posts. Until the drug addiction is addressed, it would be next to impossible to diagnose what (if any) other conditions are present. So many of us (myself included) sought out counseling and medication for a host of other mental health issues, while we're still routinely using and abusing addictive drugs; and the results are minimal, as a result. We simply can not fully process our thoughts or feelings clearly, in a therapeutic setting, as long as there remains a mood-altering, mind-altering substance in our body.

There are dramatic changes that are needed to occur within a person to maintain long-term recovery from drug addiction. Removing the drug is actually the easiest and quickest part. Most folks can get past the first week of detoxing; it's their ability to cope with every aspect of life without a drug that trips them up. In recovery circles, it's often said, when you stop using, you only need to change one thing: everything. Through addiction, our entire way of thinking and reacting to the world is screwed up. That takes time, outside guidance and support and concerted effort to clear up.

NA is not a once a week cure. NA is a "one-day-at-a-time" way of life that addresses the myriad of issues that encompass drug addiction. While once a week meetings is a start, it's barely a step in the right direction. The program of recovery of NA is the 12 steps. The fellowship of NA is the meetings. While the meetings are essential tools, they are only one part of the process. The other vital piece is learning to practice the 12 steps in your daily life. This is not something to do on your own; our own addictive minds got us into this problem, and certainly are limited in being able to resolve those problems alone! It's a life-long process, to be done with the guidance of another addict (a sponsor) who has done the same before you.

Addiction brings with it a host of signs and symptoms that closely resemble signs of any number of major personality disorders. That includes everything from narcissistic personality disorder to borderline or histrionic personality disorders - and then some. Until the drugs are removed from the picture completely, it would be very difficult to diagnose if you have other treatable issues.

Peter, when I got clean - I still had daily, severe, chronic pain - but I couldn't continue to use addictive meds any longer. IN SPITE OF THE PAIN, I needed to get clean. My life was on the line. We are not 'entitled' to pain relief, just because there are so many pain meds on the market! In fact, our disease WANTS us to stay in physical pain - as that is the ultimate, legitimate excuse to continue to use narcotics. We can't listen to that part of our brains when it comes to turning our lives around through recovery. We have to step out of the problem (the physical and/or emotional pain) and step into finding the solution. It's an attitude shift. It's an attitude that begins with a 100% commitment to find an answer to cope with pain that does not include addictive drugs. Those drugs are not a part of any solution.

To this day, i still experience a good deal of physical pain - but I do not take any narcotic or benzo to deal with any of it. It's quite simply "not an option." In my way of thinking in recovery, short term pain relief is NOT worth the long-term upheaval that drugs would bring back into my life.

When I hit bottom, I became utterly willing to do anything that would help me to recover. Meetings alone weren't enough; I'd bounced in and out of recovery for years. Ultimately, I put my entire life "on hold" and went in-patient, into long-term treatment for 6 months. When you believe your life is on the line, you become willing to do such a thing. I was in the treatment center when I was referred to see an MD who also specialized in addictions, to find answers to my physical pain. That treatment center is where my recovery began; that's where I learned more about me - what was holding me back, what was creating my problem, and how to resolve those things that stood in the way of my maintaining complete recovery. With once a week NA meetings, you'll get once-a-week recovery. As it says in the "big book" of Alcoholics Anonymous (NA's sister), "Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon."

You appear to be trying to "do" recovery all on your own, Peter, and that gives you a slim chance to succeed. This disease is too damned devious and complex for an addict to figure the way out of it! Half of our problem is our way of thinking - so how can we think our way out of the problem? As my in-patient counselor said to me, "You think you're smart enough to do this on your own, Ruth - but it's exactly that, your intellect, that is going to be your biggest obstacle."

Seize onto NA with half the passion you pursued drugs - track down a doctor who is an addictions and pain specialist - and, if that isn't enough, look into in-patient treatment. Desperation is the best place to begin this process. It's no coincidence, in my mind, that the "Gift Of Desperation" - the essential turning point from this disease into recovery - spells out the word, "GOD."

God bless,
Ruth

[PeterRabbit2]

If you think you have an issue with telling the truth (pathological lying), there is help for that also. But, this is the first step if you want to start going in the right direction.

CH

No, I'm no pathological liar. I just compulsively twist things to protect my addiction. Once I address the addictive issues, the lying should stop on its own. My lies are a function of my addiction(s).

In the grips of ANY addictive substance, be it Klonopin, Norco, Roxicodone or Methadone - it seems that everything MUST be polished and aggrandized in some way. The fact that I have OCD does not help.

I will address this problem as though I AM a pathological liar, however.

[PeterRabbit2]

RUTH, THANK YOU!!!! No, please do NOT do anything that would risk your licence!

You did not have to take all that time away from your life to respond directly to me!

You are a blessing.

Our posts crossed but if you read my last post before this one, you can see, we agree that the lying is a function of addiction. I'm starting to wonder if I was misdiagnosed as having OCD!

I don't wash my hands 50X a day or check things like whether the doors and windows are locked.

Ironically I AM seeing an addiction specialist! She's the one who put me on methadone! Is that doc a quack? I went in trusting her explicitly and now I'm almost infuriated at her.

Is it time for a new doctor? I'm starting to wonder if I have OCD at all!

The worst part of all this is....THIS GUY YOU'VE "KNOWN" ALL THIS TIME, IS NOT REALLY ME!!!!

You've only known "me" as the puppet to the narcotic's hand! Ruth, you said, "I suspect your lying is simply another symptom of drug addiction"

I'm beginning to agree rather vehemently with that sentiment.

PS: ALL this time I've (stupidly) been defensive, treating this like a jousting match, trying to get the better of anyone who challenged MY status quo! You never ONCE let me go and I thank you for that! You FORCED me to stop and think. YES! I WILL SEIZE ONTO NA! I'm still a bit scatterbrained but give me some time to digest that VERY dense and well thought out post! Finally, you touched a nerve. (I dropped my defenses enough so you could)

Thank you again!
You are a candle in the dark.

[PeterRabbit2]

Ruth, I don't entirely understand the way NA works BUT over time, I'm sure I will.

I'm a quick study.

BTW, YOU were my first sponsor. You held me accountable every step of the way.

Just to be sure - the website is na.org is that right?

[PeterRabbit2]

Ruth said:

"I'd rather see someone clean and sober - and hating me because I told them what they needed to hear -
rather than see someone drunk or high - and liking me because I told them what they wanted to hear."

Peter responds:

Ruth, I NEVER hated you! Disliked? At times, OH, YES! - FOR SURE! - I'd like to believe it was the pills doing the thinking (and probably the talking) for me. BUT, I can't let myself get away with it, anymore!!! I'm mad at myself over this, NOT you! It was MY fault, not the pills' fault, they're inanimate objects. I'm just stubborn as a mule - that's dangerous - dangerous because I follow(ed) my irrational, internal directives! I've said this before but did no action to correct myself. THAT "hall pass" has expired!

I am of the opinion that what you do, Ruth - and how you do it - is just about the most noble calling one can have. God's going to bless you beyond what you think is possible! (I hope.)

[PeterRabbit2]

Hello, everybody!

I've been on 7.5mg (down from 10mg) methadone per day, in divided doses - 3.75mg every 12 hours (for the last 72 hours.) Right now, I feel REALLY GOOD! I hadn't thought about Klonopin, the anti-panic medicine that's sitting in my medicine chest, until just now, as I type this. I've got to give it 8 days more, before another reduction of methadone! (I have a HUGE tendency to rush through things, well...NOT......THIS......TIME!!! I AM NOT IN A RACE!

(BTW, I have ZERO intention of using the Klonopin! Should I keep them in case I have a panic attack or should I flush them, I do not take benzos lightly, AT ALL!)

I MUST recognize the following:

1) I am not clean and I'm hoping not but expecting...
2) ...I may find a plateau, which to break through I find extremely problematic.
3) I'm doing this under my two doctors' supervision (one doctor is an addiction specialist AND a psychiatrist, the other is a pain management Dr. and an orthopedic surgeon.) I may need a third opinion.
4) I recognize that I'm consciously leaving NA out of the equation for now! ***BUT*** NOT FORGOING THE POSSIBILITY THAT I MAY LIKELY NEED THEM IN THE FUTURE!!!
5) If this attempt at a taper AND CESSATION fails, I WILL get NA involved. There's NO question in my mind about THAT! I'm SO tired of trying AND FAILING!!!

The prescriber of my methadone is my pain management Doctor, who is an orthopedist, an orthopedic surgeon and a spinal surgeon, (et alia).

I've been using 650-1,300 mg APAP (extended release) three times a day or 1,800mg-3,900mg (1.8g to 3.9g) per day, to ease pain. I will take a CMP every other month to check for liver or other anomalies.

PS: On 8/1/2011 (the 11th full day since the last downward adjustment) I will attempt another dose reduction. I will let you all know how it goes.

QUESTION: What do you think of my plan? Does it stand an icicles chance in hell or is it a solid one?

[O2BClean]

Peter Rabbit,

As a recovering alcoholic who was sober for 7 years before the dance with pills started last October (and ended on June 30), I can tell you that Ruth is so right about AA/NA and, depending on the meeting (or at least the ones out here in Cali), it doesnt matter so much which one you attend, but that you do attend.

I fought AA for years. I didn't need it and could do it on my own. I thought I was smart enough to do without it. Guess what? I wasn't smart enough by a long shot. No one is.

The way to sucess is this: go to meetings (I mention AA or NA because if you don't live in a large city, your choices may be limited), find a sponsor you can connect with, work the steps. It's that simple and that hard. You are going to hear a phrase often at these meetings and it is "rigorous honesty." It is vital to be honest with yourself and your fellow addicts.

All the willpower in the world doesn't help if you don't have the tools. And you will get them in AA/NA.

And, if you have a problem with it being based on religion as many do, don't worry. Your Higher Power can be lots of things.

I hope this helps. I certainly don't have all the answers and, in fact, am having a rough day craving-wise, but I do know that success in beating this starts and ends
with NA/AA?

Peace.

[MaisieC]

Hi Peter,

No one here can advise you about the details of your plan. You have two competent doctors who are familiar with your medical history and your addiction. They can advise you.

It sounds as though you're really asking for "permission" not to go to NA. Peter, you need NA now, not at some point in the future. You spin your wheels and post these elaborate plans and play fast and loose with the truth. You need to get into NA or AA now. Listen and learn. Stop talking, stop trying to control everything, stop this pointless and obsessive tail-chasing.

If you get into meetings and really start working on listening and absorbing, you'll begin to get it. It's not about making lists. What you really need is pretty much the polar opposite of what you've been doing. Be honest. Let go of control. They say Let Go and Let God. Humble yourself.

You won't get it right away. No one does. It's a big change, and it takes place over time. Forget being a "quick study"; there's no quiz, it's not a contest to see how fast you can learn it. Get into meetings, be honest, and work the program.

I think you need to get to as many meetings as you can. Go to different meetings, both NA and AA. Don't go trying to prove anything. Just go.

You're a smart guy. I think you know you need this. I think you don't want to face it, and you're not alone in that. But you know everything else you've tried has failed. Go.

Good luck,
Maisie

[cheekysod]

you said you were going to shave 1mg off your 10mg methadone pills..... obviously the 1mg would be wasted.... but that you were going to go slow and steady. and go 9mg for a bit...

and then two or three posts later you said, i am now on 7.5mg, taken twice a day in 3.75mg portions....

how are you breaking this up. crushing and using scales. im curious....

and methadone is a once a day thing, so why twice a day...??

so already you have contradicted yourself... i looked at your first post days ago, and went, oh here we go again, bloody stories. yeh right... after i came back and read the rest i was like,

peter rabbit needs to get honest.... stop sayin, and underlining, and tryin to convince us you are being honest. coz ultimately, its not us who gets hurt by your dishonesty....

i get moderate to severe asthma too peter and theres lots of otc pain stuff i can take if i need it.... and as for taking thousands of mgs of apap, daily. you are gonna kill your liver....

yup im feeling cynical about what you want to do.... im sure the story is gonna change again.... go to na.... stop obsessing, just get on with it... oh and you say you are reducing under your doctors supervision... so theyre happy with you being on 7.5mg, (your asking us what we think you should do. what did the doctor say.)?

ahhh frustrating, and amusing at the same time.....

[azul diablo]

The good ole kiwi has come out to roughhouse a little bit...... Good to hear from you!