Freedom11 and Thor

[Jillynnie]

Hi there. I have been reading posts on the forum side for a long time and have read your diary(s) pertaining to your taper.
I am currently on 3-4mg subs a day and have been on them since Aug of this year. I have Fibromyalgia which has been giving me fits these past few weeks due to the Texas weather going crazy. (Nothing new, that is how Texas is...if you don't like the weather just wait a sec, it'll change!)

I addressed this thread to you two because you both started tapering approximately the same time and have offered a lot of help and support to others, and I really admire how dedicated you have been. There are several others here that I also have enjoyed reading, but you two jumped into my mind when I wanted to post.

I was hoping for any feedback you may have pertaining to your taper and if you would be willing to share it with me.
How are you feeling today? How long did it take and were there many setbacks? What would you do differently if you could?

I would truly appreciate any comments you may have, and if anyone else would llike to jump in, that is fine also.

Thank you both very much! And, congratulations on your dedication to be sub-free!

Best,
Jillynnie

[Denny_D]

Hi there. I have been reading posts on the forum side for a long time and have read your diary(s) pertaining to your taper.
I am currently on 3-4mg subs a day and have been on them since Aug of this year. I have Fibromyalgia which has been giving me fits these past few weeks due to the Texas weather going crazy. (Nothing new, that is how Texas is...if you don't like the weather just wait a sec, it'll change!)

I addressed this thread to you two because you both started tapering approximately the same time and have offered a lot of help and support to others, and I really admire how dedicated you have been. There are several others here that I also have enjoyed reading, but you two jumped into my mind when I wanted to post.

I was hoping for any feedback you may have pertaining to your taper and if you would be willing to share it with me.
How are you feeling today? How long did it take and were there many setbacks? What would you do differently if you could?

I would truly appreciate any comments you may have, and if anyone else would llike to jump in, that is fine also.

Thank you both very much! And, congratulations on your dedication to be sub-free!

Best,
Jillynnie

Jill ..... you didn't ask for my input, but I was online and read your request so thought I would offer some ideas to you. Hope you don't mind.

I used Suboxone to get off of a 35-year abuse of most everything. I was on the Subs for about 3 months time. I used Robert's Taper Plan and reduced my dose by 25% every 4 days.

When I got down to a dose of 0.25mg I tried to jump. I felt a few withdrawals so I went back and then began to start skipping days. You know dose then skip 1, 2, 3, and 4 days until done. This worked perfectly for me.

I had no further problems. I was one of the "lucky" ones I guess. Most do have some withdrawal problems for long periods of time. Many of these people had been on the Subs for much longer periods of time. Some for even years!

I've spoken to you before Jill and remember you quite well. This was my experience anyway. I wish you the best. I'm sure that Jay and Max (Thor) will be by real soon. Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny

p.s. when I joined the forum I was already clean so there is no record of my "story" so to speak. I was lurking for about 2 years though!

[FrustratedAndTired]

Amen on that Texas weather.

[Jillynnie]

Denny,
I certainly welcome any and all comments! Thank you. I am glad you remembered me. I lifted you up many times in prayer during your recovery from surgery. You may have seen it on your thread. ??
I also followed you on your other thread as well, and am so glad to see you here online. I hope you are doing well and feeling stronger every day.

I want to begin my taper soon, and I've a feeling that I will be one that has to take it slow and steady but perhaps the key may be (for me) to not focus so much on the symptoms and more on just getting on with life. I am not sure how well I will do with the Fibro and all, and there has to be something said for quality of life (I am turning 50 next month), but I have my Neuro doctor appointment next Wednesday and am going to ask him about changing my Cymbalta for Savella. I am just not getting any relief and it takes me so long to get moving in the morning. All my joints are just cryin! This is quite new to me in these past few months.
I was amazed to read that you went through the surgery with no pain meds and have to say that was extremely brave! I am so very glad to hear that you have a port in to get the antibiotics to you quickly. Are you out of the woods yet?

Tired - do you live in Texas also? Just a crazy state with crazy weather, I tell ya! We were under a tornado warning..one touched down not too far from me...after a beautiful day! And, THIS after an entire summer of no rain and fires galore!
Just crazy.

Please, I am very thankful and eager to read anyone's experience with their taper, thoughts of how they did it, and if they would have changed anything?

Best to you all!
Jillynnie

[Denny_D]

Denny,
I certainly welcome any and all comments! Thank you. I am glad you remembered me. I lifted you up many times in prayer during your recovery from surgery. You may have seen it on your thread. ??
I also followed you on your other thread as well, and am so glad to see you here online. I hope you are doing well and feeling stronger every day.

I want to begin my taper soon, and I've a feeling that I will be one that has to take it slow and steady but perhaps the key may be (for me) to not focus so much on the symptoms and more on just getting on with life. I am not sure how well I will do with the Fibro and all, and there has to be something said for quality of life (I am turning 50 next month), but I have my Neuro doctor appointment next Wednesday and am going to ask him about changing my Cymbalta for Savella. I am just not getting any relief and it takes me so long to get moving in the morning. All my joints are just cryin! This is quite new to me in these past few months.
I was amazed to read that you went through the surgery with no pain meds and have to say that was extremely brave! I am so very glad to hear that you have a port in to get the antibiotics to you quickly. Are you out of the woods yet?

Tired - do you live in Texas also? Just a crazy state with crazy weather, I tell ya! We were under a tornado warning..one touched down not too far from me...after a beautiful day! And, THIS after an entire summer of no rain and fires galore!
Just crazy.

Please, I am very thankful and eager to read anyone's experience with their taper, thoughts of how they did it, and if they would have changed anything?

Best to you all!
Jillynnie

Jill ..... when you are ready to begin your taper, I hope to be around to offer you any advice you should need at the time. I am not feeling real well right now, but the thoughts and Prayers of everyone like you really made the difference.

I don't know if I could do another surgery without the use of narcotics, but this time I had my mind made up and did it. I did absolutely read everyone's comments to me while I was away and they were so appreciated.

I am on the forum when I feel ok and will help you any way that i am able as I said earlier. You will do just fine I'm sure. See what the Doctor can do for you and let us know here. God Bless.....Denny

[maximus99]

Hi there. I have been reading posts on the forum side for a long time and have read your diary(s) pertaining to your taper.
I am currently on 3-4mg subs a day and have been on them since Aug of this year. I have Fibromyalgia which has been giving me fits these past few weeks due to the Texas weather going crazy. (Nothing new, that is how Texas is...if you don't like the weather just wait a sec, it'll change!)

I addressed this thread to you two because you both started tapering approximately the same time and have offered a lot of help and support to others, and I really admire how dedicated you have been. There are several others here that I also have enjoyed reading, but you two jumped into my mind when I wanted to post.

I was hoping for any feedback you may have pertaining to your taper and if you would be willing to share it with me.
How are you feeling today? How long did it take and were there many setbacks? What would you do differently if you could?

I would truly appreciate any comments you may have, and if anyone else would llike to jump in, that is fine also.

Thank you both very much! And, congratulations on your dedication to be sub-free!

Best,
Jillynnie

Jillynnie,

I noticed your post, and haven't been that active on here as of late, but wanted to try to help you!

Firstly, I noticed Denny responded, how really helped both myself and Freedom tremendously during our taper. At that time on the forum, which is end of Sept / Early October, he was an incredible person of support, encouragement, and energy!

IMO there's 2 main parts to this. The "method / taper", and then the spiritual component.

The method / taper part for you I feel, since you've been on Sub since August, is exactly what Denny described. He truly is a great person knows a lot about this, and has worked with many folks on here.

The 2nd part, the spiritual part is why this forum can be so helpful. A place where you're not judged, and lots of people that have been there, or are there now.

You might realize from our posts that Freedom and tapered and jumped off the sub within the same time period.

However, currently we are at different places. I believe Freedom has been off Sub for 36 days as of today.

However, I was off it for 21 days, and then went back on it. I am sure you might have seen the threads, and realize how that I was on sub for over 5 years.

I can only speak of my own experience, but you have not been on sub for years, but months. And this in my opinion changes things. Again, I can only speak about my direct experience.

For me, as you probably realize, I had a hard time. But I think Denny has given you perfect advice and input, that really fits your situation.

Freedom is a stellar example of success, having been off it for 36 days. I am sure Freedom will be here soon and share and give you some great input!

And that's the thing, everybody's situation is different I feel.

I will only say one thing. You mention Fibromyalgia. The sub has obviously been helping. You may have to address this in a different way, and just be prepared as you
taper and go off sub.

I am by no means a Doctor, but perhaps you can try other ways to deal with the Fibro once your off sub.

I think important thing is, and both Freedomnand Denny I think would agree, whatever issues you had before taking sub, will have to be addressed.

For some it's depression, and for others it's pain. It really varies.

During my 21 days, for me personally, on a mental level, I did experience more fear in general. I wouldn't call it anxiety, I would call it fear.

Now of course I was often in bed, almost always cold and chilly, and felt,heaviness.

For me it didn't lift. But for Freedom, I believe it has and is lifting.

We are totally different people, so you have chosen 2 people on sub, with different specific details.

I think Denny once again gave you outstanding input, and wish you the best of luck on your journey, whenever it may be!

You have lots of great support here Jillynnie!

All the best,


Thor

[Jillynnie]

Jill ..... when you are ready to begin your taper, I hope to be around to offer you any advice you should need at the time. I am not feeling real well right now, but the thoughts and Prayers of everyone like you really made the difference.

I don't know if I could do another surgery without the use of narcotics, but this time I had my mind made up and did it. I did absolutely read everyone's comments to me while I was away and they were so appreciated.

I am on the forum when I feel ok and will help you any way that i am able as I said earlier. You will do just fine I'm sure. See what the Doctor can do for you and let us know here. God Bless.....Denny

Thank you, Denny. I truly do appreciate and have witnessed all that you do on this site for many people and would gladly welcome your support when I begin to taper. I will let you know what my neuro says after my visit next week. I know at my last appointment he told me his goal was to get me off of subs and use vicodiin for breakthrough pain. Well, I am not silly enough to think this is going to do well for me. Albeit, I am drug dependent due to the amount and length of time I was on painkillers to address all of my maladies from the Fibro over the years (when he diagnosed me in August it was such a relief. I finally had an answer to my ongoing problems since I was 30!) I am not at all comfortable having the painkillers at my disposal. I want to find a combination of medicines that will address the pain (ie: Savella, amatriptyline, et) of the Fribro so I won't need any painkillers for the breakthrough times. I may be whistling Dixie, but I would like to hope there is something that will work other than pk's. If we can get that combo in order prior to the taper, like Thor mentioned, addressing my problems that I had prior to the subs, then that would be the best scenario.
Thank you so much for being willing to help while you are still in so much pain. Maybe by the time I have this sorted out and am ready you will be feeling better too! That is my hope for you, FOR YOU! Not to benefit me, but that you will be feeling better real soon!

thank you again, Denny. I'm glad I went ahead and started this thread. I really was hesitant due to some reasons that you may or may not be aware of.
Past is past and I am looking forward! As they say, if we spend too much time looking backward we are bound to run into something.

My best to you,
Jillynnie

[Jillynnie]

Jillynnie,

I noticed your post, and haven't been that active on here as of late, but wanted to try to help you!

Firstly, I noticed Denny responded, how really helped both myself and Freedom tremendously during our taper. At that time on the forum, which is end of Sept / Early October, he was an incredible person of support, encouragement, and energy!

IMO there's 2 main parts to this. The "method / taper", and then the spiritual component.

The method / taper part for you I feel, since you've been on Sub since August, is exactly what Denny described. He truly is a great person knows a lot about this, and has worked with many folks on here.

The 2nd part, the spiritual part is why this forum can be so helpful. A place where you're not judged, and lots of people that have been there, or are there now.

You might realize from our posts that Freedom and tapered and jumped off the sub within the same time period.

However, currently we are at different places. I believe Freedom has been off Sub for 36 days as of today.

However, I was off it for 21 days, and then went back on it. I am sure you might have seen the threads, and realize how that I was on sub for over 5 years.

I can only speak of my own experience, but you have not been on sub for years, but months. And this in my opinion changes things. Again, I can only speak about my direct experience.

For me, as you probably realize, I had a hard time. But I think Denny has given you perfect advice and input, that really fits your situation.

Freedom is a stellar example of success, having been off it for 36 days. I am sure Freedom will be here soon and share and give you some great input!

And that's the thing, everybody's situation is different I feel.

I will only say one thing. You mention Fibromyalgia. The sub has obviously been helping. You may have to address this in a different way, and just be prepared as you
taper and go off sub.

I am by no means a Doctor, but perhaps you can try other ways to deal with the Fibro once your off sub.

I think important thing is, and both Freedomnand Denny I think would agree, whatever issues you had before taking sub, will have to be addressed.

For some it's depression, and for others it's pain. It really varies.

During my 21 days, for me personally, on a mental level, I did experience more fear in general. I wouldn't call it anxiety, I would call it fear.

Now of course I was often in bed, almost always cold and chilly, and felt,heaviness.

For me it didn't lift. But for Freedom, I believe it has and is lifting.

We are totally different people, so you have chosen 2 people on sub, with different specific details.

I think Denny once again gave you outstanding input, and wish you the best of luck on your journey, whenever it may be!

You have lots of great support here Jillynnie!

All the best,


Thor

Thor,
Thank you so much for responding. I do SO hope you will be feeling better soon! I understand completely the need to be able to function due to life's circumstances. I fear, as did you and now for obvious reasons, the lack of energy and inability to gain any energy after getting off of subs.
The Fibro causes me to be tired as it is, so to have even more with the wd's of subs it would be adding insult to injury. But, I also know that I don't want to be on these so long that I have to struggle even harder later on.
You are correct in that I will need to address my previous concerns prior to tapering from the subs. Like I told Denny, I am going to discuss this with my Neuro doctor next week. There has to be a combination of medicines that will help enough that I won't have to take painkillers for 'breakthrough' or 'flareup' pains. He suggested last visit that his goal is to get me off of subs and then use Vicodin for the flareups. I am not comfortable with this idea and therefore I want to try and find the right combo prior to the taper. I realize I won't have a full understanding of what that will be while I am still on the subs, and yes you are correct, I AM getting relief from them..more so than the pk's were giving me, and so I will have to try and figure out with my doctor's help, what will be the best course of action.

I appreciate your willingness to share with me your taper and how you are doing. I have been following you and freedom and know that both outcomes were different. I also understand that we are all different. But, you both are such tenacious and understanding people I wanted to hear your feedback on my situation.

Thank you again, Thor, and I will keep posting and let you know what the doctor says. if you can think of anything else I need to mention to the doctor I would appreciate any feedback.

Best to you..and hang in here, I sincerely feel you WILL reach your destination!

Jillynnie

[maximus99]

Thor,
Thank you so much for responding. I do SO hope you will be feeling better soon! I understand completely the need to be able to function due to life's circumstances. I fear, as did you and now for obvious reasons, the lack of energy and inability to gain any energy after getting off of subs.
The Fibro causes me to be tired as it is, so to have even more with the wd's of subs it would be adding insult to injury. But, I also know that I don't want to be on these so long that I have to struggle even harder later on.
You are correct in that I will need to address my previous concerns prior to tapering from the subs. Like I told Denny, I am going to discuss this with my Neuro doctor next week. There has to be a combination of medicines that will help enough that I won't have to take painkillers for 'breakthrough' or 'flareup' pains. He suggested last visit that his goal is to get me off of subs and then use Vicodin for the flareups. I am not comfortable with this idea and therefore I want to try and find the right combo prior to the taper. I realize I won't have a full understanding of what that will be while I am
still on the subs, and yes you are correct, I AM getting relief from them..more so than the pk's were giving me, and so I will have to try and figure out with my doctor's help, what will be the best course of action.

I appreciate your willingness to share with me your taper and how you are doing. I have been following you and freedom and know that both outcomes were different. I also understand that we are all different. But, you both are such tenacious and understanding people I wanted to hear your feedback on my situation.

Thank you again, Thor, and I will keep posting and let you know what the doctor says. if you can think of anything else I need to mention to the doctor I would appreciate any feedback.

Best to you..and hang in here, I sincerely feel you WILL reach your destination!

Jillynnie

Dear Jillynnie,

Thank you so much, and just thoughts you had some wonderful exchanges with Denny! We are both praying for him to get better, which I believe he is everyday.

I am sure Freedom will have some wonderful things to say and share with you. And yes, we are both tenacious!

It's so great you stared this thread, as you will get some amazing feedback and support, which should help so much!

I can imagine and sympathize with your pain, and realize yes, you would have the Fibro to deal with beyond the sub WD's.

I agree with you about not wanting to use Vicodin for break through or flare up pain. You are wise, and listen to your instincts.

Sub is used by many folks to get off all sort of opiates, and so many Doctors in this country prescribe sub. A very few of those Doctors truly know how to get a patient off sub.

The hardest single physical symptom that came up was really the heaviness, with chills underneath it. When people would say "lead suit", I would read, and figure ok, I will just be tired, that seems not to bad. I'll just rest!

In reality, i wouldn't really understand it unless I experienced it. It's Jello. My legs were Jello! Truly! Lifting my body from the bed to a standing position took so much effort. And then it seemed like I could only stand for a certain period of time, and I got worn out from the effort it took to hold what felt like 10,000 of my body up. It was crazy!

What this did was cause me to lie down alot, due to getting warn out so quickly.

The first 10-11 days for me, I was moving, walking dogs, really fired up. Posting a lot. Emotional, and thinking I can do this!

At Day 11/12, it became so Physical, that my cheerleader, "you can do this" attitude that had worked felt like it got knocked out.

At this point the Physical overpowered my mental attitude, which has always been strong.

Also, at a certain point I was alone (which I highly do not recommend, make sure to have family around you, or a good friend. Even if you are resting and not talking, it makes you feel better). So being alone, and in bed for 10 days straight, missing more work than anticipated was a killer for me.

At Day 21 when I could have easily continued, but would have been forced to miss more work---this is what drove my decision. I couldn't miss anymore. This was just me.

The best one thing I can say passionately is you are so wise to wanna get off the sub. The longer you are on it, it certainly accumuates in your body and brain.

I know you will succeed and it sounds like you approaching in a excellent way!

Since I am not stable yet on any particular dose of sub, I have been coming on the forum when I have the energy--I am sure you totally understand this!

Jillynnie, I will look forward to checking back on here, and seeing what your Doctor says.

Hope you have a great weekend!

Cheers,

Thor

[freedom11]

Hi Jillie - you will laugh at this; there has never been a thread with my name in and I just saw Denny's name at first and I thought he was telling me and Maximus off about something!!! WHat a whimp I am!!! So it was lovely to hear that it was because you got inspired by mine and Thor's threads. Thank you - I am really touched. Are you having 3x4mg sub pills a day or 3 or 4mg subs per day? Not quite clear but my predominant advice to you is to start cutting down NOW. You won't really feel it on that dose (whichever one it is). This stuff has a very long half life and the longer you're on it the longer it will take you to get off it because it builds up in your system. If you have less energy, as a result of tapering, it is likely to be at much much lower doses eg 0.5. Don't leave it Jilly. This is powerful stuff. As Thor says, I've not had any for 36 days and it's still coming out of my system - just and I was on about 0.15 or something when i jumped. You will see from my thread all the details. I came off methadone - took a couple of 4mgs, then 3mgs for few days then went down to 2mgs, over about a week - then spent about two months going down from 1mg to nothing. SO all of this takes time especially at the lower doses and with skipping. I wouldn't recommend for you to do it like I did it before I came here - just after I came here. See Robert's taper method. Its a stickey on discussion board. Keep the same dose for 4 days approx cos you won't feel any effects from a decrease till the third day cos of half life. Decrease by 25% or 10% if you want - just get going on it. There is loads to tell you really but I will be writing a book if i write much more. Key things for me; music, exercise and this forum. Unlike Thor I am/was on my own and that was fine; no non user people knew about my addiction (still don't). I need to go to bed now. I hope that helps. Love Jay xx (ps call me Jay - Freedom11 is me wanting to be free of drugs in 2011). PS The weather is always talked about in england cos a lot of the time it's awful!! No sun, misty and wet all day - very grey today. Wish I had that Texas sun!!

[Jillynnie]

I am so thankful that you wrote, Jay. I truly appreciate it!
Yes, you DID inspire me, and I am sure many others that may have not chosen to post yet.
These answers have encouraged me to begin my taper now. I am not alone, BUT that doesn't quell the fear of being in a 'lead suit' and lack of energy sure to follow. Denny stated he was one of the 'lucky' ones that skipped wd's almost all together. If I understood him correctly, he felt a tad of wd's and took a bit more and then continued on with the taper.
I am on 2mg/0.5mg films of the Suboxone. I have been taking 1 1/2 strips(3mg) a day off and on for about a month. On occasion I have gone up to 4mg (2 strips) in a day due to my Fibro pain. I was prescribed 4mg / day.
Question: Did any of you experience a feeling of big swollen hands (just felt like it, they weren't)? Is this the buildup of the bupe? I ask because it started out of the blue about 3 weeks ago. I do know this is also a side of Fibro, but I am curious if anyone else suffered from mysterious side effects of bupe building up in our bodies, other than the obvious of having brain receptor overload? Many times through the day I have to clench and unclench my hands to make them feel 'normal' again. I know my other pain points are giving me fits (most likely the Fibro/weather) but, am curious if anything else may be build up. ??

So..I think what I am going to do is begin only taking 3mg a day for 4 days, then drop again. I think getting to a lower intake but it still 'working' would be better than nothing until I can get the right combo to fight the Fibro with. What do you think?
Also, I sorta suck at math. What would my taper be if I were to drop 25% each 4th day?

Again, I am SO thankful and appreciative that you have posted to me, as well as Thor and Denny. I've witnessed how extremely kind and supportive you have all been. Being accountable to someone when tapering will be HUGE for me, I feel. I don't really respond too well to harshness. I get the 'tough love' concept, but I tend to respond better to kindness, and that is what drew me to y'all.

You guys are SO wonderful!

Big hugs to you!
Jillynnie

[freedom11]

Hi Jillie - good on you - sounds like a plan. Get stable on 3mg and go from there. I'm not very good at maths - have you seen roberts taper plan - it's in discussion board. If you chose to do 25% downward that would be 2.25 mg. Re the swelling - I switched from subutex to suboxone and really bloated up and put on loads of weight on suboxone - even though at really low dose and have read of others doing same. Felt like i had beer belly after being really skinny for a long time. I put on a bit of weight i know cos was eating better but it really was horrible bloating. Cos i was so aware of my stomach and that all my clothes didn't fit, I didn't notice if my hands bloated too. You could ask your doc to switch you to subutex as same basic ingredient? Just a thought. ANyway, look on Thomas recipe for supplements - you can google this. You need to get yourself as fit as you possibly can inside and out. Going for the taper, you are putting your health first. Great news!! Love Jay xx

[Jillynnie]

Jay,
Yes, I have gained weight on this, too. Basically I was underweight prior to starting the subs and needed to gain a bit. While on this medicine I crave ice cream! I am sure you don't have Blue Bell across the pond, but suffice it to say it is YUMMY and oh so fattening! It comes in several containers the largest being 1/2 gallon. I am not kidding when I tell you that I have eaten...by myself....about 12 containers since I started this! I kid you not!! So, I gained back the weight I needed to, and then some! I started eating healthy (I have to force myself as the only thing that sounds good IS the ice cream) and had fresh steamed veggies last night. I am going to focus on eating MUCH better and going into the taper I will need to get a workout regime in place like you said. If I hit the 'lead suit' phase without a habit in place of exercise I am sure to stay in bed! I am anticipating those days anyway, but am going to try and put into place an army of defense prior to. I already have to force myself out of the house just to do simple things so a workout routine will be huge unto itself!

Thank you again so much for your support on my journey. I will keep you posted on my doctor visit. My subs doc visit is in two weeks and I am going to inquire about switching to subutex.

Best to you!
Jillynnie

[Denny_D]

Jay,
Yes, I have gained weight on this, too. Basically I was underweight prior to starting the subs and needed to gain a bit. While on this medicine I crave ice cream! I am sure you don't have Blue Bell across the pond, but suffice it to say it is YUMMY and oh so fattening! It comes in several containers the largest being 1/2 gallon. I am not kidding when I tell you that I have eaten...by myself....about 12 containers since I started this! I kid you not!! So, I gained back the weight I needed to, and then some! I started eating healthy (I have to force myself as the only thing that sounds good IS the ice cream) and had fresh steamed veggies last night. I am going to focus on eating MUCH better and going into the taper I will need to get a workout regime in place like you said. If I hit the 'lead suit' phase without a habit in place of exercise I am sure to stay in bed! I am anticipating those days anyway, but am going to try and put into place an army of defense prior to. I already have to force myself out of the house just to do simple things so a workout routine will be huge unto itself!

Thank you again so much for your support on my journey. I will keep you posted on my doctor visit. My subs doc visit is in two weeks and I am going to inquire about switching to subutex.

Best to you!
Jillynnie

Jill ..... The one thing that I can tell you for absolute certain is that a "positive attitude" is essential to your detox. If you start believing that you are going to be having a difficult time, or problems with your detox, then guess what, you will for sure.

But if you start thinking or believing that this is going to go real easy, or the symptoms will be minor, you will stand a much better chance of it happening! No reason at all to think that you will be experiencing terrible detox symptoms. This I can tell you with absolute certainity.

Just get yourself real stable on your current dose and when it comes time just reduce that dose by 25% and stay there for 4 days or so. Then keep repeating the process until you get down to a dose of 0.25mg or even less. Then begin the day skipping process and you will be finished!

Just keep taking some real good vitamins and supplements as you reduce your dose. Try some excellent protein shakes as well. And get as much excercise as you can get. You don't have to run 5 miles, just a walk every day will help you so much.

This is the best advice that I can give you. And if you really believe it to be so, then you will stand a much better chance of becoming successful the very first time! Just do your very best and everything will be just fine I promise. hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny

[Jillynnie]

Denny,
Thank you! I completely agree with being positive. I can 'feel' it. Does that make sense? I can FEEL that positive attitude and will embrace it for all it's worth! I am going to approach this as just an every day thing, nothing to fear or get worked up and all focused on...just go about it as another day and treat it as such.

I am so very thankful for you, Thor and Jay! I want to be able to pop in and check up on everyone and drink in all of the support and positive cheering!

I hope you are doing better each day, Denny! How is your knee today? Are you getting relief with the antibiotics? Is the swelling going down? How is the fever? Has it subsided?

Here's to a great weekend for us ALL!

Best to everyone,
Jill

[maximus99]

Denny,
Thank you! I completely agree with being positive. I can 'feel' it. Does that make sense? I can FEEL that positive attitude and will embrace it for all it's worth! I am going to approach this as just an every day thing, nothing to fear or get worked up and all focused on...just go about it as another day and treat it as such.

I am so very thankful for you, Thor and Jay! I want to be able to pop in and check up on everyone and drink in all of the support and positive cheering!

I hope you are doing better each day, Denny! How is your knee today? Are you getting relief with the antibiotics? Is the swelling going down? How is the fever? Has it subsided?

Here's to a great weekend for us ALL!

Best to everyone,
Jill

Jill, you have a wonderful attitude which shall carry you through!

Cheers,

Thor

[Denny_D]

Denny,
Thank you! I completely agree with being positive. I can 'feel' it. Does that make sense? I can FEEL that positive attitude and will embrace it for all it's worth! I am going to approach this as just an every day thing, nothing to fear or get worked up and all focused on...just go about it as another day and treat it as such.

I am so very thankful for you, Thor and Jay! I want to be able to pop in and check up on everyone and drink in all of the support and positive cheering!

I hope you are doing better each day, Denny! How is your knee today? Are you getting relief with the antibiotics? Is the swelling going down? How is the fever? Has it subsided?

Here's to a great weekend for us ALL!

Best to everyone,
Jill

Jill ..... that's the spirit! You have it just right! You can't lose with an attitude like that! I and everyone else will be right there beside you for any help or suggestions that you may need. You know that.

Thank you for all of your Prayers and concern about me and my surgery problems. I sincerely appreciate you taking your very valuable time to ask about me!

I am doing fairly well at this time. I did have to go to the ER on 2 occasions the other day. My blood pressure and temperature keep rising to very high levels. My knee is really swollen and I am not able to get up and walk at this time. But they did not feel the need to keep me in the Hospital this time around.

I came home from the hospital with a Pic Line (port) in my upper arm so that I could administer myself 2 doses of 2 different powerful antiobitics every day for a total of 8 weeks. The Staph Infection is still trying it's best to get back and give me more problems.

But with all of the thoughts, well-wishes, and Prayers from everyone I don't see it ever happening! God is completely watching over me ALL of the time. I know this to be true! Thank you again Jill for your Prayers. You are really something Special! God Bless.....Denny

[Jillynnie]

Well, I was having some terrible times with my knees over the weekend and I ended up taking 2 1/2 strips yesterday. I have been doing good on my mini taper (I guess that's a good name for it, as I am not really starting it fully until I talk with my neuro on Thursdsay) by taking 1 1/2 strips a day, but Sunday I was hurting pretty bad and took another strip. Other than that, things have been going well. I even rode my motorcycle and that was great! I haven't driven it in a very long time and thought 'well, it's going to hurt if I don't ride anyway, so what am I waiting for?!' Had a great ride with my husband and saw some family. All in all a good day except for the increase in the sub.
I am focusing on being only on 1 1/2 strips this week and then after I get some feedback from my doctor, taking it down to 1 strip a day starting next week.
Just a reminder, I am on 2mg/.05mg film strips.

I am going to ask about changing from Cymbalta to Savella for my fibro and see how that helps with the pain. Another side effect with the Fibro is migraines and I want to know how well Savella helps with those as well.

Okay, that's my update for the day. Hope everyone had a good/great weekend and are ready for an even better week!

Best,
Jill

[Jillynnie]

I was just thinking about the taper plan...
Once I am fully vested into the taper (next week is my start time for actual full on taper, although I do feel as if I am already beginning it...) how do you know you are truly stable on a dose prior to taking it a step down? If the half life is as long as everyone is talking about, how can you know you are truly stable at four days (or so) before you drop? I understand the 'not written in stone' theory, but even so, at what point do you know you are TRULY stable? Won't the half life always EVENTUALLY catch up to you? I guess my question is (and please, don't shoot the questioner..) but, if the half life is always there..waiting...then you can never TRULY stabilize at any given state, can you? It's really just a matter of choosing when YOU want to drop again, right?

Thoughts?

Jill

[Denny_D]

I was just thinking about the taper plan...
Once I am fully vested into the taper (next week is my start time for actual full on taper, although I do feel as if I am already beginning it...) how do you know you are truly stable on a dose prior to taking it a step down? If the half life is as long as everyone is talking about, how can you know you are truly stable at four days (or so) before you drop? I understand the 'not written in stone' theory, but even so, at what point do you know you are TRULY stable? Won't the half life always EVENTUALLY catch up to you? I guess my question is (and please, don't shoot the questioner..) but, if the half life is always there..waiting...then you can never TRULY stabilize at any given state, can you? It's really just a matter of choosing when YOU want to drop again, right?

Thoughts?

Jill

Jill ..... You will know when you are ready to reduce your amount and continue to resume with the taper because you will be feeling ok on the current dose. Just stick to the plan is all.

As you begin the taper plan of reducing your dose by 25% every 4 days or so it doesn't mean that in 4 days you automatically reduce. You just have to be feeling well enough on the current dose to reduce to the next dose. Don't read too much into it Jill! Some people (and I don't mean you) make entirely too much out of the taper plan.

Yes the half-life is very long with the Sub., but when you keep reducing your dose, and then begin to skip days when you get down low enough, the half-life will diminish on it's own. The only time there is an exception, in my opinion, is when someone has been on the subs for a very long time. And I mean mainly years!

The Sub just keep building in the persons system in massive amounts, if they have used for years, and it takes a extra long time to get rid of it all. Take the case of Shrimpboat and Max for instance. They have both used for years and are struggling to get back to a normal feeling. In my beliefs I think that they most likely still have Sub left in their systems, and it takes an extra-long time to remove it all. Even after a months time or longer. Sub is just too darn strong! That's my theory about it and others may disagree.

But if someone has been using the Sub for less than a year the standard taper plan will and can work very well. It almost always does. So please don't get all too consumed by what is going to happen or what is going to work. You will do just fine I'm quite sure. You only have to do a few things to succeed Jill.

Take your Sub at the same dose and time each day. Then reduce that dose, when you are feeling good (stable) every 4 days or so by 25% and keep going until you are down to a dose of 0.25mg or lower. Then begin the skip days process. Dose then skip 1, 2, 3 ,4, or even 5 days and you will be finished. That's all there is to it Jill. Please don't make it any more difficult than that.

Someone will be with you all of the way. I will try to do it myself, but I am going to be recovering from my surgery for a time yet. But there are several others that all have the experience to help you. You will be in good hands and do just fine! Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny

[freedom11]

Hi Jilly - sounds like you're doing good love. You will be FINE.... Well done on your mini taper. Keep at it. Love Jay xx

[Jillynnie]

Thank you both so much for your support! It really means so much to me!
I did good yesterday. Took my 1 1/2 strip which equates to 3mg. No problems.
Am going to be busy at it today around the house so I am thinking it will all be okay today also.
I am getting a tad frustrated as I seem to be focusing on the energy aspect of this whole thing. I have struggled with it alot in the past every time I tried to quit the pain pills on my own. I would usually cave after 3 weeks of not being able to get out of the bed and naturally I am fearful of that.

BUT..going to plod steadily along and not give it any of my mind time or brain space.

Hope everyone has a good week!

I will be going to my Neuro this Thursday, hoping for some good feedback.

Big hugs,
Jillynnie

[maximus99]

Thank you both so much for your support! It really means so much to me!
I did good yesterday. Took my 1 1/2 strip which equates to 3mg. No problems.
Am going to be busy at it today around the house so I am thinking it will all be okay today also.
I am getting a tad frustrated as I seem to be focusing on the energy aspect of this whole thing. I have struggled with it alot in the past every time I tried to quit the pain pills on my own. I would usually cave after 3 weeks of not being able to get out of the bed and naturally I am fearful of that.

BUT..going to plod steadily along and not give it any of my mind time or brain space.

Hope everyone has a good week!

I will be going to my Neuro this Thursday, hoping for some good feedback.

Big hugs,
Jillynnie

Jillynie,

Will see what your Doctor says later this week, and sounds like you are doing great!

Opiates certainly can give you energy, and boy did I realize that when I went off, and was in bed. But we both know that it's an opiate induced energy. That's why I think when you go off, your body is so tired. It's not used to giving you true and real energy.

Its your body reseting, and this is part of the process. The length of the reset is different for everyone.

But we no doubt all like our energy, and when it's taken away, it changes everything.

Sounds like you have a good attitude which is the foundation of this whole process!

Hope you have a great week!

Thor

[Jillynnie]

Jillynie,

Will see what your Doctor says later this week, and sounds like you are doing great!

Opiates certainly can give you energy, and boy did I realize that when I went off, and was in bed. But we both know that it's an opiate induced energy. That's why I think when you go off, your body is so tired. It's not used to giving you true and real energy.

Its your body reseting, and this is part of the process. The length of the reset is different for everyone.

But we no doubt all like our energy, and when it's taken away, it changes everything.

Sounds like you have a good attitude which is the foundation of this whole process!

Hope you have a great week!

Thor

wow, I was JUST commenting on this very thing...that the energy we feel we are lacking may in fact be 'false' energy..opiate energy. We may really be at our max, but after such a long time of 'hyper' energy from the pills or subs, we think that is where we should be when we are 'healed'. But, maybe the 'slower' feeling really is what our potential is going to be. Hope this makes sense. It does in my head, but trying to get it from head to keyboard is proving a tad taxing.

Thank you, Thor..I appreciate your support so very much!

Best to you all,
Jillynnie

[sookie3]

Thank you both so much for your support! It really means so much to me!
I did good yesterday. Took my 1 1/2 strip which equates to 3mg. No problems.
Am going to be busy at it today around the house so I am thinking it will all be okay today also.
I am getting a tad frustrated as I seem to be focusing on the energy aspect of this whole thing. I have struggled with it alot in the past every time I tried to quit the pain pills on my own. I would usually cave after 3 weeks of not being able to get out of the bed and naturally I am fearful of that.

BUT..going to plod steadily along and not give it any of my mind time or brain space.

Hope everyone has a good week!

I will be going to my Neuro this Thursday, hoping for some good feedback.

Big hugs,
Jillynnie

Hi Jillynnie, just came across your thread...maybe we can help each other through this. I am also tapering at the moment too I am on 2.25mg and will be for another few days yet.
I have been on the Sub for 7 weeks as of today..I was on Methadone for yrs and have noticed more aches reoccurring since I 've been off that.
I have scholiosis (spine) which effects just about every other part of my body aswell (once your spine is out it puts everything else out of alignment) so I know about pain, anyway I digress as I said if I can be of some support as we go through this similar process I am here to talk. I check the forum every day I am still navigating my way around the place, but getting there..
Hope you are doing ok today, Regards Sookie

[Jillynnie]

Hi Jillynnie, just came across your thread...maybe we can help each other through this. I am also tapering at the moment too I am on 2.25mg and will be for another few days yet.
I have been on the Sub for 7 weeks as of today..I was on Methadone for yrs and have noticed more aches reoccurring since I 've been off that.
I have scholiosis (spine) which effects just about every other part of my body aswell (once your spine is out it puts everything else out of alignment) so I know about pain, anyway I digress as I said if I can be of some support as we go through this similar process I am here to talk. I check the forum every day I am still navigating my way around the place, but getting there..
Hope you are doing ok today, Regards Sookie

Sookie,
Hi there and thank you so much for your post. I was drawn to the forum side after watching Jay and Thor (Freedom and Maximmus) doing their taper at about the same time. I think it was good for them to be talking during it.

Thanks so much for suggesting this. I think it's a good idea.

I guess you read the thread and know that I have been on subs since Mid August and am at 3 1/2 mgs now. Haven't truly begun the 'real' taper..calling it a mini taper at the moment. I have my Neuro appt on Thursday. I will see what he says about my medical options going into the taper.
I can only imagine the pain you are going through as well. Does the weather affect your pain? Are you tapering every 4 days or when you feel yourself stable?

I am heading to bed but I will check in tomorrow morning.

I think we will get great support here!

Best to you,
Jillynnie

[sookie3]

Sookie,
Hi there and thank you so much for your post. I was drawn to the forum side after watching Jay and Thor (Freedom and Maximmus) doing their taper at about the same time. I think it was good for them to be talking during it.

Thanks so much for suggesting this. I think it's a good idea.

I guess you read the thread and know that I have been on subs since Mid August and am at 3 1/2 mgs now. Haven't truly begun the 'real' taper..calling it a mini taper at the moment. I have my Neuro appt on Thursday. I will see what he says about my medical options going into the taper.
I can only imagine the pain you are going through as well. Does the weather affect your pain? Are you tapering every 4 days or when you feel yourself stable?

I am heading to bed but I will check in tomorrow morning.

I think we will get great support here!

Best to you,
Jillynnie

Hi Jillynnie, yes this forum has been great help for me too, it's good to have support from other people who are 'In the know' so to speak. It's the best forum I have found so far.
I have been reducing when I feel stable and that has been around the 4 to 6 day mark. I am on the tablets so I really have to start measuring them up precisely when I start to drop below the 2mg.
And yes the weather can effect my pain levels absolutely. How about you???
I hope the doc can help you find some other good pain management, how are your energy levels? Are you able to do any excercise?
Look forward to catching up again..Sookie

[Jillynnie]

Sookie,
Good morning to you!
Yes, the weather plays a part in my Fibro. The weirdest thing just happened. My hands have a sense of feeling swollen when they aren't (this is common with Fibro) but, the pain has shifted over night. Literally. The pain was in both hands at the first knuckle part and just overnight the pain has moved to the second knuckes..in both hands. How very strange is that?! I need to start my list of things to talk to the doctor about or there is no way I am going to remember everything.

I am sure this is not going to be met with much enthusiasm but I want to talk with my doctor about muscle relaxers for the Fibro. It it taking me SO LONG to get up and moving in the morning, and every time I stop and sit even for a minute, I have to 'unhinge' all of my joints to get moving again. I am too young (turning 50 in December) to be feeling this old!

I am still at 1 1/2 subs (3mgs) and hope to maintain that today. How are you doing?

hugs,
Jilly

[freedom11]

so pleased to see u too buddying up. Thinking of you both. Love Jay xx

[sookie3]

Sookie,
Good morning to you!
Yes, the weather plays a part in my Fibro. The weirdest thing just happened. My hands have a sense of feeling swollen when they aren't (this is common with Fibro) but, the pain has shifted over night. Literally. The pain was in both hands at the first knuckle part and just overnight the pain has moved to the second knuckes..in both hands. How very strange is that?! I need to start my list of things to talk to the doctor about or there is no way I am going to remember everything.

I am sure this is not going to be met with much enthusiasm but I want to talk with my doctor about muscle relaxers for the Fibro. It it taking me SO LONG to get up and moving in the morning, and every time I stop and sit even for a minute, I have to 'unhinge' all of my joints to get moving again. I am too young (turning 50 in December) to be feeling this old!

I am still at 1 1/2 subs (3mgs) and hope to maintain that today. How are you doing?

hugs,
Jilly

Hi Jilly I had a weird sensation in my fingers for a few weeks when I first got on the Sub it was like a mild pins and needles, and I suffered through aching joints a feww years ago constantly but thankfully that has not returned so far.
I'm feeling ok I thought about taking an extra sliver yesterday so I will stay on the 2.25mg for another day or so ( that time of the month) I always get antsy when I get them.
I am 46 and feel older then that but I've started to walk more and do yoga now and then and I stretch often, that has been a real help for me as I stiffen up alot too..I would suggest it if you can. You just need to make sure you start gentle and get some tips first I'm sure there are links on the net..
Yes it's good to have a list I should do that more often too as I get into see the doc and struggle to recall all the things I need to ask about until I walk out the door and drive off then it all comes flooding back ofcourse
take care, talk soon...Suzy/sookie