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Fentanyl Patches/Methadone
  1. #1
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Default Fentanyl Patches/Methadone

    Hi everyone, I was hoping I could get someone to help me with a taper off methadone. Currently I go to the clinic and my dose is 50mg a day liquid. 4 months ago, I fractured my pelvis. My GP called the clinic to see if they would up my dose to help with the pain. He explained to them that he didn't want to "mess up my treatment plan with the methadone. NO they wouldn't do that as "they are not in the pain management business and do not give methadone for pain."
    Long story short, I have been on methadone for 3 years in Sept of this year. Longer than I ever intended to be on it. My highest dose has been 70 mg from the clinic, although I have upped my dose myself at times. Oh, I am female and 52 yrs old if that has anything to do with it.

    My bone Dr., not my Gen Praticioner, did finally perscribe Fen patches at 50mg after I fell one morning ( origional due to osteoporosis). I fell and broke my origional fracture almost completely into, and fractured a bone beneath that fracture, almost completely into, 5 weeks into the healing process, one morning at 4 am.. So, I am currently on 100 mg of the combination of both methadone and the patch. I thought my dr wanted me to take both the methadone and patch together, because he said for break thru pain, hell, the pain never has stopped. The other day he said you aren't using the patch and methadone together are you? I freaked and said no. But I am. I thought thats what he wanted me to do. I should've asked but didn't. Now, I have 3 patches left. I am ready to get off those, and honestly, my pain is not under control. Now, I have been diagnosed with bursitis on my left hip. Oh, the fractures are on the right side of the pelvis. Needless to say, I am in constant pain. I have started back to work, pt, 3 days a week when I can do it. I have 19 stairs to climb one way. If I go up and down 3 times a day, that is 144 stairs to climb. No problem at first, now with the hip...well it hurts like hell and I can hardly walk.

    My question is, I haven't told my counsler that I am on the patches. I have never failed a drug test, nor have I ever taken any other pills since being on the methadone. Other than, upping my own dose with methadone pills that I get from a friend who goes to a Dr, and he gives her methadone. I have stopped getting them from her. I know I am only hurting myself. Currently I have 250 mg left of the methadone and when I pick up next week on Fri, I will have a total of 900mg. Now, if I just take the patch and don't use anymore methadone, the patch will last 9 days which is plenty of time to make it to the clinic, do you think I will go into withdrawals? Saving my methadone, and when I pick up next week, I could add that methadone to what I have now, that will give me 900 mg. What I want to know is should I tell the clinic that I have been on the patches? Or should I just drop back to 50 mg of the methadone and not say a word to them and taper off from that. I hope I am making myself clear. How safe or what dose do you think i could taper off daily until I use up the 900 mg. Or, should I just let them taper me. Reason is that I don't think I am going to be able to work, my husband has been so supportive of me with this methadone, but if I loose my job, we can't afford to keep going. I am being reasonable here. I know what our finances are. I worked 4 years and got laid off, was on unemp until the end of June, then, right before my emp ran out, I fell, thereby 2 fractures now. Not mentioning the disc problems I have in my back. I am to a point that it is so hard just to walk. Should I try and taper myself, knowing I won't be able to afford the done, I never thought it would come to this, especially after getting this new job w/insurance in 90 days. But my new employer sees that I am having trouble climbing the stairs. I took this week off work to try and heal up a bit, but on Monday I am supposed to go back, unless she tells me that it is so slow right now she doesn't need me. I am afraid that she is going to tell me that..if she does, We/I am screwed. Hence the taper. Someone please help me..PLEASE.. Should I just use up the patches, save the done, get another 2 weeks and then taper from there? Thank you so much.

    BB

  2. #2
    Anonymous Guest

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    You should tell the bone doctor or the methadone clinic right away that you are on both.
    This is not safe at all.
    The patches are very powerful, which is why the doctor was switching you...not sure
    of his reasoning......
    b/t the two you are on much more opiates than any of the physicians's are aware of.
    This is a medical decision to be determined by the doctors to decide what you should do.

    btw....I was on a high dose of fent patches for several years before i came off them....so i'm not just blowing smoke at you.
    please let your physicians know what's up.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 08-23-2012 at 03:57 PM.
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  3. #3
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Shadowwally, I honestly thought that I was to take both the 50 mg of methadone and the 50 mg of fentanyl together, I have been doing this for 2 months. When my Dr., the bone Dr. asked me the other day I freaked and instead of saying yes, I said no. I don't know why. I had to call him and ake an emergency appointment to come in and see him because of my left hip hurting. He seemed adgitated at me for disrupting his day. Or I took it that he was. He was. He was. He was very rude and throwing my leg this way and that way, I know he had to check me, but he didn't have to do it the way he did. He has always been nice to me. I am afraid to tell the clinic Dr. I am afraid he will bring me down from my 50mg. That is the way they do it there, to have control over you. When I first broke my pelvis, I had to suffer because i couldn't get any pain relief, no one would give me anything, Not even the bone Dr., because i am on methadone, but when I came back to his office after a couple weeks, crying in pain, he finally gave me the patches. I am so scared.

  4. #4
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Wow, I keep going back to my post hoping someone will answer me. I didn't take any methadone today and am just on the patch which is 50mg. I am not getting anymore of the patches, it was just a temp thing. I have never abused them. I have had some people (not on here) tell me to poke a hole in the patch you will get more. That is absurd. I would never do something like that. You can die. I am not stupid nor am I a, what do you call me, an addict. I believe that I am, but a careful one. Does that make any sense? So, if I use just the patch, that is 17mg a day for 3 days...right. It will substain me until I run out and then I will just go back to the methadone. I will be okay, right? i just don't want to overdose, and I promise you, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to take both at the same time. I am going to get off the methadone. I just don't want to go from taking 50 mg of patches and 50 mg of the methadone down to 50 total. But, I guess that is what I will do. The Dr., bone Dr., told me to start using the methadone again. Heart falls to feet! What? OMG, I was taking both at same time. So, on Friday next week, I pick up at the clinic. I never abused Oxy's, Zanny's, nothing like that. I was just taking 8-10 Loratabs a day. Looking for more when I startted on the done. A "so called friend" said to me, just go to the methadone clinic, you can get off the pain meds, and get something for pain too. Great, I thought. SOME DAM-N FRIEND RIGHT?? So, ahead 3 years later and I am still on it. Last night, I cried to my wonderful husband, told him what shallowwally said about taking both together. I gave my husband the keys to my lock box, so I wouldn't be tempted to take any done. I told him, I am afraid I will die accidently.
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  5. #5
    caughtagain is offline Diamond Member
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    hurts... Not that we don't want to answer.. Shadow has been working during the day so it is hard for her to come on here... Her or Cheeky will post... Hang in there, we are rooting for you.. All my best, Reid
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  6. #6
    LovesAnimals is offline Member
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    I've read your post hurts but I totally agree with what Shadow posted. I know nothing about methadone or Fent patches. But what I gathered from your post is neither the meth clinic nor the bone doctor know about the other medications you are on. Does the pharmacist know?? (I am doubting they do..)
    IMO you are playing with fire - Not sure anyone is gonna say SURE, it's okay?? But I can't speak for everyone. Please note, I am NOT trying to be mean here.

    Dee
    PS - I guess this is why I don't respond much cause I think I come off as a B**ch sometimes and not trying to!!
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  7. #7
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Dee, hi of course my pharmacy knows, the bone dr., knows. I don't want to kill myslef.

  8. #8
    LovesAnimals is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohithurts View Post
    Dee, hi of course my pharmacy knows, the bone dr., knows. I don't want to kill myslef.
    Ok, sorry I misunderstood. So both doctors and the pharmacy knows you are on methadone & Fent patches?
    I thought in post #3 you said you lied about being on methadone when you got your fent patches? Sorry again if I misread.

  9. #9
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Reid...I appreciate it..I was reading posts about Karen...so I thought everyone was doing that! LOL..my Bone Dr. knows, my pharmacy knows, the clinic doesn't know I am on a patch. That is my question, should I tell my clinic about the patches? Or, just finish off the 3 that I have and just drop down to the 50 mg of methadone only? Thanks so much. I really do want to come off of everything. I just haven't or couldn't with the pelvis thing, actually I am on 50mg and was on 70 mg and I think that is why the clinic dr, didn't want to up my dose, because I was comming down. Then I broke my pelvis. My counslor at the clinic told me if i felt I needed pain meds, then I should take them, because, I tell you, I went without anything but the done for a month and suffered so much. Because my clinic wouldn't up the dose, my bone Dr., gave me the patches. I don't want to die, I want to be clean.

  10. #10
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    yes, everyone except the clinic dr., knows. I make sure I tell them because I don't want to die. I am a careful addict if not anything else.

  11. #11
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    No, i lied about taking both at same time.

  12. #12
    LovesAnimals is offline Member
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    That is where I see a HUGE problem - but leaving it to the experts!

  13. #13
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    That's okay Dee, I was shocked when my bone Dr., said "you aren't taking the patch and the methadone at the same time, right? Heck, I didn't know I wasn't supposed too. He didn't tell me not to. Oh, and that is the same day he said, "so here is the origional fracture, and here is the same fracture where you fell, breaking it even further, and of course, u know you have this fracture down here as well"!!! NO, I didn't know I had 2 fractures, no wonder I hurt like h-ll." That's what I said to him, so he then tells me, that when I get off the patches, then go back to the done. So, here I was last night crying to my husband, telling him that I think I have really messed myself up here. I gave him my keys to the lock box this morning, I didn't want to take anymore methadone and risk dying. I probablly won't as I'm not nodding off or anything, but I really need to get off this stuff. I have been on it toooo long, 3 years next month! So, now I am afraid if I tell my clinic dr., he will just bring me down for not telling them. I didn't tell them because I needed pain meds, he wouldn't up my dose, and I feel he should've.

  14. #14
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    forget the post that say's No, I lied..I don't know how that post got there, I DID NOT LIE AND NEVER HAVE AT ALL TO ANY DR OR PHARMACY...I just haven't told the clinic

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    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry loves...I don't know how that post got there..I have never lied..never...I just haven't told the clinic about the patches...please read all my posts....please...I would think that is a problem as well...please believe me!
    I haven't quite figured out how to post correctly...I'm sorry

  16. #16
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohithurts View Post
    forget the post that say's No, I lied..I don't know how that post got there, I DID NOT LIE AND NEVER HAVE AT ALL TO ANY DR OR PHARMACY...I just haven't told the clinic
    OMG..I am totally confusing everyone. I am re-reading my posts! I did lie to the dr, when he said you aren't taking both are you?? I freaked, I was scared. Then he said, just go back to the done, and yes, I have told all my Drs. that I take methadone. I just haven't told the clinic that I have been on patches for 2 months. i did lie/freak out and said "NO" I am not taking both to the bone Dr. when he asked me, why did I do that??? I was scared I guess. I don't know why I did. Please forgive me for not making myself more clearer. But yes, I always tell pharmacy and I tell all Dr. that I take the done when they perscribe meds for me.

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    LovesAnimals is offline Member
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    No biggie - I am really sorry I can't say anything other than I agree 100% what Shadow said - that's why I like the like button!
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  18. #18
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    No, I didn't lie about being on methadone, I lied to him when he asked me if I was taking both at the same time, 2 months after he prescribed them to me. He should've told me not to do that. I lied to him bout doing both at same time. 2 months had gone by with me taking both at the same time. I am sorry for bombarding you with posts, but I am re-reading them and I see that I haven't made myself clear. I apoligize, and I am just wanting someone to talk to about it. I didn't know how to post correctly. It has been along time since I have been on here.

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    LovesAnimals is offline Member
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    You are doing fine posting - sorry I can be of no other help. I have got to get a few things done around here but wanna stress again - I totally believe what Shadow said is the best advice, as far as I am concern. Good luck!

  20. #20
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Hi everyone, I have to go off line for awhile and freshen up. I have been online all day hoping someone would talk to me and finally someone has, and I have posted confusing posts. Is it the meds playing with my head? Making me think I am making myself clear? He--, I don't know anymore. I will be back on soon. I hope that you will read all the posts as I hope I finally have made myself clear. I really do want to get off all this stuff. I do. I feel like I have really messed up my life by getting on the done. It's the first thing I think about every morning. Sometimes, I will take my dose at 3;30 AM, my usual dosing should be at 6:00 am. I am in alot of pain as everyone is. I am not making excuses for doing it. Just stating the fact. I am embarrased to let anyone know how stupid and weak I have become by going on the done. I am a grown woman for gods sake. How could I have been so stupid, and not checked out methadone before going on it. Oh, I did read a message board or two and all had great things to say about it. It wasn't until I got on here a year later and saw what all was saying about it. I sit here now, tears in my eyes because of what I have done. I need help. i'm sorry, I have to go now, my husband is on his way home. I will be back on later. Thanks so much for listening to me. BB

  21. #21
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    Hurts...
    I understand what you are saying. I understand your dilemma.....
    I just don't have the answers you need.
    Going from done to fent to done.....
    I have NO idea what that will do for you, different half lives and all.....
    wish i knew more!
    Best of luck.
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  22. #22
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    ok shadow, thank you for understanding. Do you know the half life of fent? I guess I will just drop the patch and suffer if I have too. I don't think the Dr. at the clinic will be helpful. In fact, they bring you down for anything., I don't know why I didn't tell the bone Dr. I was just scared because, I thought that's what I was supposed to do and he asked me so suddenly I freaked when I realized I wasn't supposed to do it. Which is stronger the done or fent? Do you know.? Thanks again for your help. I just found a site and it says the half life is 17 hours. I wasn't thinking of half lifes at all when I started taking it. I have never abused drugs, not really powerful ones. NO oxycodone, or none of the roxy's nothing like that. I just got on the methadone and now this patch.
    Last edited by ohithurts; 08-24-2012 at 06:24 PM.

  23. #23
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    i don't know which is stronger.....
    they may say the half life is 17 hours, but if you look at threads where some of us have gone cold turkey seems to be more.....idk know really.
    i do know they are BOTH a bi%ch to come off of.
    I understand the panic at the question, really I do.
    Somewhere on here someone posted a comparison chart on strengths of drugs, but don't remember who.
    Are you thinking of tapering down to 30 mg or so of the methadone then switching to subs?
    Or are you thinking of tapering completely off the methadone? That is really hard I know. but i've seen some do it.
    I think the patches will just mess you up....they aren't helping, and will just make the taper harder.....
    You say you want off all.....so what's your plan?
    I totally understand the situation you got into, just not clear about how you want to come off of the methadone?
    Leave the patches out of it in my opinion.
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  24. #24
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks, yes I do want to completely come off methadone. I know that the patches are just temp. I only have 3 left and I will not ask for more or want more. I actually just googled about the half life. I am planning on going down to 30 mg of the done. My GP Dr, told me he wanted me to get off the done and go on sub. I think i can get off of it if I want to. I think alot of it is mind over matter, right? I think that is why my clinic dr, wouldn't give me a higher dose, because I was going down when I broke my pelvis. I thought that I could prolly just save enough done and come off it on a slow taper myself, but if you think it is best to let the clinic bring me down to 5 mg..then I will do that. But rest assured, I will not continue to do the patches. What i am scared about is just completely dropping the patch and going back to just 50mg of the done. Do you think I will have any w/d? Thanks for understanding, I was so nervous posting earlier. Sorry for the confusion. My hubby seems to think if I just finish the patch and go bck to the done, I won't notice any w/d...like i said, I have been taking both together for 2 months now. so....
    Last edited by ohithurts; 08-24-2012 at 08:59 PM.

  25. #25
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    They are both pretty powerful,
    so i would think the methadone would handle the wd's of patches if you have any from such a short time.
    If I had MY choice in your situation,
    I would go down to 30 of the done,
    then switch to subs....
    you'll have to reach a 26 or 28 on the COWS sheet when doing that.
    I know by all I hear from those who have switched from methadone to subs after trying cold turkey or tapering on the methadone, that they all say it's easier.....not easy, but comparatively speaking much easier going the sub route.
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  26. #26
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Shadowwally, I agree with you, my family Dr., told me that he thought I should get on sub...so I honestly have been honest about telling my GP Dr., Pharmacist, my Bone Dr., about me being on the done. Like I said, I just freaked when he said that to me. I completely did. I haven't told the clinic because I felt he wouldn't want me to take anything and I really needed something. He should've just upped my done back to 70 for awhile and brought me back down to 50mg. Well, that is how i looked at it anyways.

  27. #27
    MP5
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    Hey there, I hope you are doing well, and taking the right steps to get yourself better. I am not a doctor, but here is some information I dug up on the internet for you. I do believe you are/were on 50McG/H.(micograms per hour) not 50mg's per day of fentanyl. In case you don't know, a mcg is micrograms, or 1/1,000,000 of a gram, therefore, 1 mg (milligram) = 1000 mcg (micrograms). A lethal dose of Fentanyl is between .5mg and 2mg. With that said, I am glad you are not taking 50mg's. From what I have read online 50mcg/Hour of fentanyl is equivilent to around 140-190mg's of morphine. Based on the information from this website( www.globalrph.com/fentconv.htm ) 50mg's of methadone is equivilent to 39 MCG/Hour. Another site I looked at says a conversion from fentanyl to methadone is 1:20 [eg 175mcg/h of TTS fentanyl = 4.2mg fentanyl/24hrs = 84mg methadone/24h]. There are so many variables like bioavailability and half-life to consider that it makes it really hard to accurately convert things. If it was me, I would not tell the meth clinic about the fenanyl cuz I think they would kick you out of the program for using while on methadone. As Shadow said, I would like to think that the meth will take care of most of the wd's and then you can taper down a bit on the methadone. At that point you can taper down to a low dose of methadone and switch to suboxone following Robert's taper to get yourself clean, and free. I hope this helps a little to ease your concerns and help you make the right decision.

    Mike


    Here is a link to a bunch of opioid conversion charts:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=opia...w=1301&bih=649
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP5 View Post
    Hey there, I hope you are doing well, and taking the right steps to get yourself better. I am not a doctor, but here is some information I dug up on the internet for you. I do believe you are/were on 50McG/H.(micograms per hour) not 50mg's per day of fentanyl. In case you don't know, a mcg is micrograms, or 1/1,000,000 of a gram, therefore, 1 mg (milligram) = 1000 mcg (micrograms). A lethal dose of Fentanyl is between .5mg and 2mg. With that said, I am glad you are not taking 50mg's. From what I have read online 50mcg/Hour of fentanyl is equivilent to around 140-190mg's of morphine. Based on the information from this website( www.globalrph.com/fentconv.htm ) 50mg's of methadone is equivilent to 39 MCG/Hour. Another site I looked at says a conversion from fentanyl to methadone is 1:20 [eg 175mcg/h of TTS fentanyl = 4.2mg fentanyl/24hrs = 84mg methadone/24h]. There are so many variables like bioavailability and half-life to consider that it makes it really hard to accurately convert things. If it was me, I would not tell the meth clinic about the fenanyl cuz I think they would kick you out of the program for using while on methadone. As Shadow said, I would like to think that the meth will take care of most of the wd's and then you can taper down a bit on the methadone. At that point you can taper down to a low dose of methadone and switch to suboxone following Robert's taper to get yourself clean, and free. I hope this helps a little to ease your concerns and help you make the right decision.

    Mike


    Here is a link to a bunch of opioid conversion charts:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=opia...w=1301&bih=649

    Holy Moly......
    My eyes were crossing while I was reading that Mike....
    but yea, "what he said"......
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  29. #29
    Sunny mom is offline Member
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    "I was told there'd be no math on this exam"!!
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  30. #30
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you so much Mike! See, I don't know much about the pathches or the mg...the Dr. said he was giving me 50 mg...so..thank you for all you have said and I too believe the Dr., at the clinic would kick me out of the program. He is a buttho-e...they really don't have your best intrests at heart, they just want your money. I know you are right about the sub...that is what my family Dr., told me when I told him I was on the meth. He said if the clinic Dr., wouldn't do it, then he knew some Drs., who would. I am going to go down to 30 and I may go thru hell before I get better, but I will do it. i just don't know what to do about all this pain that I have, I now have bursitis in my left hip, I can hardly walk from that, I have discs problems, 2 broken pelvis bones that haven't healed properly and it's been 4 months of dealing with that, degenerative arthritis in the hips, osteoporosis, sleep apenia, veinous insuffency, and this has all happened in the past 2 years. I have gone so down hill that really I am not able to work. Plus, I have no insurance and now am on the methadone. Not good. I just don't know how I am going to deal with the bone pain from the methadone, plus the pain that I have and honestly, I am terrified. I am. Thank you all for being so kind and being understanding of my situation, I joined this site awhile back, but haven't posted in awhile. I will let you know what is happening and soon.
    BB
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