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Experience with stopping sub ct -to reinduct at a much lower dose?
Experience with stopping sub ct -to reinduct at a much lower dose?
I have been tapering my sub for awhile now. I started at 40 mg and tapered to 12mg fairly easy. The plan as writeen by Robert and used countless times right here is so well written, comprehensive, and concise I have often thought how many hundreds...thousands perhaps -have been successful following this protocal that few are probably heard from on this forum. Personally any question I have had I have found answered consistently the same over and over multiple times over the years. I'm certain the question I have is the same, however I am unable to find it answered directly-or better yet an example(s) of people who have done this successfully. How I would love to find someone who has, and be able to follow their experience step by step and apply it myself (which has made it obv to me why oit may be important to share your experience right here-even if it mimicks exactly so many others)Anyway I want to provide enough pertient info here so anyone w/ experience or knowledge w/ this who may be able and willing would help me-yet I don't want it to get too convoluded w/ info and details that I could share later so as to make clear where I'm at and my realistic options. I have been on Suboxone forover 2 yrs now-was put on as a means of obtaining pain mngmt following a surggery-w/o having my perv doc (fent, opana, roxie and such) avail to me. The plan to use sub was made between my spinal neuro surgeon, Pcp, sponsor, and myself-the person being responsible to be vigilant and do research etc before putting anything in my body-ME!!! And only recently realized I blew it!!! Bad this time! I can share more about that later-anyway point is I had been clean 3 yrs 2/12/2010-had surg 5/2010 and started sub n the hosp as per the pre conceived plan-i went straight from iv med-opting not to switch to the pt controlled pump so I did not have the option to use the meds-my mind is certainly 1 that long ago lost ability to decipher diff btwn meds rx'd by dr 4 pain and myself to feed my addiction-reason I share this detail is I think it may play into the struggle I have now. I have felt abso zero wd for 5 yrs now-whn I was using I guesss odd as it may sound I kind of got used 2 feeling thayt way-wether waiting for the refills, or attempting to quit ct etc. I went ct in 6/08/06 (whole nother story I'm sure many will relate to) wtook my recobvery so seriously that following 92 days in pt tx I moved to an oxford house for an addtl 3 mos-well after 7 months I decided I was ready to have another surgery I'd bn putting off due to my addiction and not wanting to have opoids following it. Even w/ plan n place-my sponsor wld keep my meds and bring to me twice a day-the surg rx'd 12 roxies a day-90 every monday-w/i a week I had relapsed, called other dr's and was off-4 me when they say ur addiction doesn't stop progressing whn u quit using but continues to progress...oh ya! And had it grown in those 7 months. 5 wks n2 my relapse I got honest w/ my sponsor, again called all the dr's (yet understand that 4 rest of my life will be up to me to choose not to use-as w/ any addict I can con and manipulate my way back n2 getting rx's if I choose-however makes much easier to not have a ph call away-hopefully if I shld choose 2 relapse by time called the dr, set an appt, went to the office, drove to the pharm-hopefully @ some pt b4 they were n my hands I wld STOP)fgeb 11, 2007 I took what I truly thought 24 hrs at a time would be the last pill I ever abused. And has been a very hard process accepting that I did indeed relapse at some point-i have bn using subs for ovr 2 yrs-they do not work for pain-while they don't give me that "euphoric" effect I assoc w/ using...I have bn using-and a lot at that! Bn working closely w cnslr and sponsor working thru this-i had so much gulkit after the accident in 2003t which started th eaddiction (long story short I was the only survivor of at which took the lives of 3 of the most amazing women God ever put on face of the earth! Then the guilkt that rather than live my life to glorify their name and do all the thngs they wld nvr b able to?? Nope instead I became a junkie-swallowing massive amnts of pills, patches-i may not have used a super long time but I surely fit a lot into that time)anyway I have struggled w this taper every time I lower my dose! I think maybe I'm now a whimp re wd? I nvr b4 understood why someone with a 20 a day percocet habit wldnt just quit ct and move on...maybe now I do!!! If ct were option for me I would! However, fear it would cause serious health and mental issues (as my sponsor says while you can't die of opoif wd u can die of stroke, dehydration, aspirating on ur own..., and suicide) while on sub I have zero appetite and tho always bn "tiny" at 5'8" I cannot remain over 95 lbs-this has caused some heart issues as of late. However I was determine to suck it up and do this re what it took. I could not reduce my dose any sooner than 5 days-sometimes longer-however I seem now STUK! I anticipated the drop fron12 to 9 bein same as prev drops-NOT so for me! It has sucked! (Sry but that is act putting nicely) I even went to 10, then after sev days 11 thinking it may help get over the "hump" it has not. Soooo the way I see it is I have a few options and this is where I would love input from anyone who has exp w this! (Sry I don't mean to sound mean n ne way and while I think abso ebvery1-wether a year, month, week, day+or even still active contributes gr8ly to this site-is n fact why it works so well-i am having some "trust issues" as the dr I went to for this med is supposed to be some "addictionologist spec" who works primarily w addicts n recovery and touts her credentials as one of only a few in our country qual and knowledgeable as she...it was not her job 2 keep me clean-that was MINE-and I obv failediwevr I have since found many in our close "recovery comm" have fallen victim to her and still are-it's 1 thng to seek out a "script dr" to obtain as many of the strongest drugs we cld while n active addiction-we r addicts that's what we do-but to have some time n recovery and intentionally seek med care and advice to avoid any substance that is addictive...and end up on SUBS-so wish if nothhing else I had ignored her admonishments to "stay off the internet" when at 1st I did tiny bit of research and...well I can't re do this but I will move fwrd-and THEN do whatev is poss 2 at vry least warn those n our comm of this danger( so here's where I'm at:
1. Just reduce by 25./. (Nxt bn 6.75) either all way down, or to approx .25 and do day skipping process as outlined in roberts plan (howevr if I do this and cnt to feeel like garbage am I not only prolonging the process and be btr off going cold turkey?? I have cn repeated over and ovr here if u reduce ur dose b4 bn stable those symptoms will follow u-and increase-all the way through)
2. Go bk on full agonist and stabalize on that then either go ct or taper-never was successful w/ that before and fear the min I puit a pill in my mouses that "euphoric" feeling it'll b rt bk-prob far worse-than ever-i learned that when I relapsed after only 7 months clean-5 yrs ago! H8 to evn think what it would be like now and honestly do not think I'd live long enough to get bk n recovery-i dnt see this as a viable option-and my sponsor will fire me bc she knows all too well where that's headed-and says it's my addiction whispering n my ear to evn think this is an option-i admit I agree!
3. Stop sub right now! Wait til 26 on COWS and re induct using roberts method outlined n the sticky and by many here 4 yrs. I am almost certain this is the best-well real only option. Here's my reluctance and fears I guess. As I sd ea drop has bn "uncomfortable" at best. Considering the long half life of sub how many days approx would it take to reach a score of 26?!? Now my theory is since I don't have an other opoid in my system-ie one w a lower binding infinity which is what causes precip wd in people inducting to sub frm their doc-that if I were to give up and re induct too early I would basically have wasted my time, and felt HALF like he** just to be back at orig dose?
Well so much for keeping this short and to the point huh! If anyone is still reading this-bless you 2 begin w!! And if you have any experience w/ this-or can direct me to thread(s) on this site where stopping and re inducting has bn successful ur help would be appreciayted more than words can express (even e all these worrds )Also I am on my ph and apologize 4 what I'm sure is a plethera of typos! I won't go bk and proof this as I'm sure I'll chx out and nvr send this. I do apologize I feel while I tried to inc ne pertient info I prob just put a bunch of details that add up to nothing. I was able to taper myself to .5 last summer and had no problems-i wasn't aware of roberts plan-or wldve also bn aware of the other knowledge re subs found here and nvr ended up bk on them-i had zero knowledge or support but my common sense told b that w a half life of approx 72 hrs a reduction at that pt wld make sense-so I followed the same protocol basically-exception bn I reduced to once a day dosing as it made sense 2 me @ that time that it'd b easier whn I stopped-even planned same day skipping mehod-w exception I planned to dose once more at end of 4 days-so I do not understand why following same bassic protocol (shldve bn harder if anything! Dosing once a day and reducing every 72 hrs like clockwork-not based upon any symptoms-course I had none! Zero!) Prev whn I deicded to get clean the answr seemed so vry obvious to mme-quit using!!!stop and just deal w/ whatevr consequences you have and don't pick up. I find myself at a loss now-and no1 in my recovery comm whom I rely on has bn able 2 help-the only advice (which I believe is prob gr8 advice-just fear I can't /won't/or results will b...bad 2 say least on my phys and mental help-is quit using-i have sev ppk w mulkti decades of reccovery, many who've workd w ppl n recovery many decades-advice is basically the same-re if you stay at hm or go somewhere-quit using-NOW! Nvr thought I'd b saying this but what I wouldn't give to b on high doses of fent, opana, roxies-you name it-and I would just quit! Maybe I will...I am at such a loss and feel hopeless and n despair-a position I nvr thought I'd put myself n again. Thx 4 listening and may you all nother 24! Bless you! Sorry but I can't go bk and proof this mess or I won't send I know! Idk if I will now-will pray about it...if ur reading it u know how it turned out and I'm sorry!
MARIAN-hope you see this! I'm still new to this forum stuff and not sure how to post to you but figured better to do here than on poor karen's threadagain lol.
Yes I saw you were from kansas awhile back. I'm not from same area as you but know some of your "people" And I get and am trying to quit beating myself up as it does not good I know and have to just focus on moving on and this bn just one more part of my "story" to learn from. But I'm so...idk so many emotions-sad, angry, embarrassed-i honestly thought I was doing what I needed to stay clean-and thought I was-even more dumb!!! Something funny? I didn't end up here trying to get clean from subs-i didn't know I needed to!?!? I now believe it was divine intervention I ended up here w/ all of you-i could've ended up so many other places on the internet and not have found what I did and b where I am. But nope get this-i came here upon the request of my "dr" (sry I feel it's such a joke calling her that!) But she wants 2 start a meeting for people "in recovery, sober, working a program...while on subs" !!! And had asked myself and another patient to find if any others were doing this and get direction to have the 2 of us start and lead this program. That now sounds so absolutely ridiculous to me!!! I had a "discussion" w her after finding the info I did here-needless to say I am no longer her "favorite" patient lol!!! In fact I am "banned" frm speaking to patients at her office-lest I influence them and misguide them w/ these ridiculous notions I've gotten off the internet of all places! Of course she explained once again about her credentials and how she understands addiction like very few others do-and I am wrong and if I insist on believing I'm not clean and getting off this med she will not support this...yet be there when it fails. She actually sd some thngs that scared me a lot. But I do realize she's made thousands and thousands off me over the past 2 yrs-and THAT is her fears for "me" It is all still overwhelming and mind boggling and I want to "sort it all out" and put it in some little box or chart that makes sense to me (yes I am in fact an accountant lol)but have bn told by both my sponsor and counselor to quit that!!! Accept this and do what needs to be done...figuring out what that is. Thx again! (Oh and btw I KNOW you and I prob will-if we haven't yet-run n2 ea other doing recovery "stuff" bizarre to me-excited to do so though!) Ty!!!
Tell the dr what they need to hear, nod yes when you need to, offer no other info, get your prescription and I can direct you off the subs totally in a couple months PERIOD! All I can do is tell you what to do, then you have to follow the instructions to the letter. God bless.
I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.
did you see Robt. jumped on to Karen's thread to help you?
That dr. saw a good deal coming with a possible group,
which she could probably charge for with "clean" sub users.
I'm not an accountant...
so i truly can embrace the whole hey....things happen for a reason, cool huh? reasoning.
where are you from in kansas?
I'm in the Northeast.
You've been in AA long enough to know to let go, let God.....
Raised Catholic, I have dwelled in guilt in the past, and have learned it just doesn't get me anywhere.
Don't go there anymore than i have to.
There are so many ways to spend our thoughts, emotions and feelings.....
i just don't find guilt productive.
Besides......doesn't work on my kids! lol.....
I hear ya about the dogs.
Had to put one down a while ago......and my Moon, well I gotta make a decision soon.
So you know me personally?
Kinda cool if so!
Take care kiddo....
Good grief Robt!
Originally Posted by Robert_325
You type faster than i think!
Thanks for jumping in here.
O my!!! Now I am totally overwhelmed! Mr Robert- I have read probably hundreds of your posts dating back several years ago, and am in awe of how many people you help, the knowledge you have-and your ability to know what ea person seems to need to hear. I have had questions throughout this and always found your answers to my questions multiple times over different threads-never thought I'd have the pleasure of actually being on the direct receiving end of your wisdom! (Sure wish was under diff circumstances-yet I honestly don't think a person in the world could help me as you...and I am having some trust issues w/ so called "experts" on addiction right now-YOU I'd trust w the life of my own children if that were the case-wow!) I had planned to just follow your instructions as outlined in your instructions. I only have to actually show up at the "dr's" office every 3 mos now-last month was my last!! She writes for 150 a month! I pick up how many ever I choose at a time-the pharmacy cares less so long as you fork over the cash. My current thinking is just stay at the 12 (last dose I was anywhere near feeling stable-after going to 9 for 3 days and was still very sick I went to 10 thinking it may "pull me out" and go 25./. Down from there...didn't happen-seems my brain/body is "stuck" on 12 now after coming down frm 40 I just can't get stable- which I just don't understand-yet finally admit it is so)I had a family member pass this morning and will need to be "functioning" for that. My husband has agreed to use vaca to stay hm w/ the kids-i will go away and stay @ my sponsors house-my kids don' 2 see me sick as well as I need to have some1 who holds the subs til induction bc fear w em @ my fingertips I will not wait it out) So 2 questions- Does staying at 12 until after the funeral-and my husb vaca day start nxt monday sound ok-what day would I take last sub 2 @ least feel well enough 2 "fake it" while caring 4 the kids and do you have even an educated guess as to approx how long it will take to reach a 26 on cows scale? I would just like some idea of realitively how long-i guess I'm afraid of being stuck for days at "not quite there" and #2 when I go (act my husband goes as I don't go to pharmacy's anymore bc it's a huge "places" for me) when he picks them up how many should he get? Obviously I will never again have to buy 150! I can ask the "dr" to write for the 2mg and sure she will, but I would have to go back-my ins covers all but $25 co-pay so that's not the issue-my issue is I would rather not see her face again! I've seen enough n the last 2 yrs to last a lifetime! Yet I use thhe strips and fear it will b diff 2 cut sm doses-and they will "melt" b4 absorbtion is adequate-is this not an issue? Again, ty, ty, ty!!! I know you are stepping back to enjoy your life more and I can't tell you how much I appreciate this and in my wiuldest dream didn't think it'd happen! WOW
Oh my I did just see his reply here! And this is like-oh idk let's say Bill Wilson came back from the dead-showed up online-and wrote he would help me! Seriously kinda like that AND John Lennon showed up @ my dr and said he would like 2 sing me the song he's been workin on while in heaven 4 me!! Seriously though! Kay I'll stop that but not too far off frm how I'm feeling! I didn't see that 1 coming! Had planned to just follow his plan as outlined in his stickie-WOW. Finally kinda feelin that cloud lift. Now I feel like there is hope. I do get ya on the good ol guilt issue-mine is Soutjern Baptist but all the same-yep was taught "don't drink. Smoke. Chew-or go w the boys that do" and I didn't lol-oh and I married the decons son-on the day of the accident we were headed back froma retreat in Topeka-me and 3 of my bff's since childhood-i've shared enough details here anyway and idc-you may have heard of it? Was a pretty big deal @ the time. The guy who hit us was drunk, driving a fully loaded moving van, driving on a suspended...bc of a suspended from OK which his employer hadn't adequately checked his bground for that. While he's. Pond scum the way his fam was drug thru the mud wasn't fair-i still deal w the resentment there and yes I get it's like taking poison and expecting it to hurt the other person...as I sd I'm not @ 4giveness yet but am better-in fact when I showed up MY tx facility and was educated that yes he chose that-bc he had a disease...same 1 I do-it helped me a bit. So many lives were 4ever changed by him that day-i don't think I'll ever understand why but am ok w that now. I do still discuss n counseling, and have actually worked the steps w the wholke issue-that's where my addiction began-the physical pain? Sure-toold 17 surgeries to b able 2 re learn 2 walk-learned though it was the phys pain why I became addicted and continued 2 use-altho held onto that as an excuse 4 a long time-til epted that there is no amnt of phys pain that's worth using opoids, they quit worrking real quick anyway-but that was a process. I don't believe I know you-i'm from ICT no where near u I know but some time ago whn I was reading through posts and was already "familiar" w you I saw you were a Kansas boy(?) And just struck me. Again ty so so very much! I quit trying to project HOW things are gonna go-im no good @ it anyway and my expectations mess it all up lol-however have a bit of faith this WILL work-for 1st time ever-i began 2 wonder if I wouldn't be clean-i had never ever had that thought b4 and was so sad when I let it creep in-it's gone and I'm fearful, yet excited and encouraged-ty!
yeah, i get you.
i was put on fent patches for a reason.
what a frickin' nightmare!
i blamed myself for a long time for not researching the drug.
it got to be sooo unbearable. i also thought i would have to be on for life.
with opoids it's off or up....yikes!
not sustainable i know.
have to go into some creative physical therapy.
what you have dealt with, is much more similar to what my daughter deals with.
She was in a terrific accident two years ago.
what a battle that's been. She has 3 kids, 9, 6 and 5.
life has it's challenges for sure.
Many many ups, downs, life on lifes terms.
I really do think you have such a leg up because you have been active in AA, working on recovery.
We can all get clean.
Staying clean.....you have the plan in place.
That's why i'm so sure you will do well.
Also.....40 mg to 12!....Be proud, took guts, determination and the desire to get clean.
Robt will help you. Keep your thread bumped up by posting.
That's a help also.
I'll keep a watch to make it so if you don't know how.
it's coming together for you.
I found this forum by googling fentanyl tolerance/withdrawals. I truly didn't consider myself "using" at the time.
I wasn't abusing. Not getting high ever for sure. Hated the patches. Just didn't know what the heck was going on.
When I realized I was in constant withdrawal, it became clear to me that i had no choice....like i said it was up or off. I wasn't going up, because that would have been a merry go round.
I got so much support here, I stayed here. Made so many many friends. I also became educated. I didn't know about so many of the drugs that were currently being abused. Most legal, very legal. I didn't even know i was on an opiate with the patches......duh!
My first time on a forum as well.
I'm thinking you're pretty well placed. Recover program in place. Someone to help you get clean.
I'm just here to say I understand how this happened to you.
makes sense to me.
You have chosen to get off the merry go round......
good for you!
btw...i'm a woman...
Last edited by Anonymous; 07-08-2012 at 10:52 PM.
*4got to say the "gentleman" his dl was suspended for a dui w/i prior 12 mos-it was disclosed during discovery he had...FOUR prev dui's over his life! In addtn 2 the survivors guilt (which idt will ever ttly go away) and the ptsd (still have very vivid dreams...I won't even say details as it is gory and things no person shld ever have to see-much less from 3 of the most wonderful innocent women a friend could ever have-i was unable to move from the neck down, couldn't speak-if I didn't have tears coming out of my eyes the 1st respinders prob wouldve thought I to was...was several wks b4 the dr's wld assure my fam I would survive-evn then at what level of functioning couldn't be said-so u see talk about guilt? After I was spared 4 whatever reason I almost overnight became opposite of what I'd been-i became a junkie doin all the things junkies doin when using-i was strongly judged and judged myself as if every1-and myself until I got helped-almost expected me 2 live the life of the 3 who never would-2day I try 2 live MY life the best I can and repay all the blessings I've bn given-im better but I'm not "fixed" yet lol. Wrk n progress I suppose but this new chapter seriously struck me unexpectedly-prev I knew darn well I was doing "wrong" just didn't have the tools to stop-this 1...feels so good 2 hear u can relate w the fent!!! And I do know those are some nasty bugars too-and idk about you but I never "felt high" from them-umm so I added a lot of other stuff 2 make sure I did...I'm sayin n ur case I can sure see how that caught you off guard!!! Never felt "alone" re using as I do now-always cld find sm1 to relate too nsome way etc so just knowing ur sit helps immensely!
Remember the fent patches led me here.
Before that i was in NA for many years for many mistakes, bad choices, and addiction.
Everything it has given me is still there. All that i've learned. All the steps, reworked as i went deeper into my issues. The first time round, looking back was admitting the embarrassing things, other times round were going deeper into how i wanted to be who i was really and who i was meant to be.
Nothing i learned there was wasted. Still a very valuable part of my life.
Friends I made there, are still priceless to me.
New clean date.....pshaww......the more i know, the more i've lived, the more i see as a new learning experience.
So here is where i've dealt and learned how to detox like a junkie off the street from a legit med i never abused, and learned more from that humbling experience, become more compassionate, and gained so many very very good friends for life.
Just as in NA. I now have the foundation i built in meetings before i came here. and also the experience and knowledge and friendships that i'm not sure anyone from na could have helped with me with, or even understood at the time. heck, i didn't understand myself.
so one leg up on recovery because of my past mtgs. another experience here that taught me sooo much and gained me more than i can ever repay.
Clean time date? everyone differs on the importance of this. For me there's nothing i've experienced that's gone to waste.No one I've connected with who hasn't changed my life.
I have a support for dealing with my dog, which is priceless to me here. She's my rock in this. I have a "mentor" here, who will be a lifelong friend I'm sure. He's my family. Through him more family.
Nothing I've gone through has gone to waste.
My daughter suffers from ptsd, the nightmares, the guilt.......I truly feel for you there, but she seems to be getting some clarity on this, as do you. Nice.
Gonna be ok.
Life is good.....and bad.....but life.
Much better clean as you know.
So I'm not just a person who didn't look up a med.....i'm also an addict who was in recovery for many years before falling into that trap. Happens.
No saint here.
but i truly believe this......laughter and the ability to laugh at our own foibles is a powerful weapon to a healthy, happy life.
I am so sorry MS Marian! I am also. WOW! I can relate to absolutely everything you said re your Fent addiction-and the realization you were addicted etc!!!!! WOW exactly! And 4 me re the pain when I was 1st told most ppl find their pain is lessened when they comp get off all opoids-well not me I was sure!!! 4 me there was something I held onto bc guess by doing so I had to admit I was an addict...plain addict period...once I did several wonderful things happened-4 one the excuse and reservation to use was eliminated-4 me that old 1 is too many, thousand nebver enough...yep! 2nd it helped in a way I never imagined-see this is a little hard 2 follow-butwhen my dear hard nosed counselor 1st told me how LUCKY I was I'm an addict...whaaa?!?! Many reasons but here's the thng-i was so so angry, consumed w/ rage, resentment, hatred I h8 to admit-and I had never bn that way! I have always bn 4giving, non judgemental-tried to accept ppl flaws and all and focus on the good n every1. However my anger towards this man and the pain he'd caused so many innocent ppl, the lives he 4ever chngd (while felt bad admitting this since @ least MY kids had a mother-our lives were changed as well-i had bn very phys active, outgoing, former gymnast/cheerleader, always on the go, worked pt for fam accounting firm while kids were little and still managed to get them to swim lessons, gymnastics, awanas, I had my little cubbie group and sunday skl group I led-very active and positive is what I'm saying. And went to bn bed ridden, then wheel chair bound-now I'm lucky I walk w/ little help-using my scooter on big outings-zoo, shopping etc-but point is the care free, pain free life I once knew was gone 4ever-yet felt so guilty as I was alive-re my limitations I had bn spared...why? Anyway I'm sure your daughter can relate to the feelings this causes-again just luike addiction, while you can imagine you imo can't really relate unless that's your life-my husband who has bn w/ me and my best friend for 20 yrs sees it 1st hand every day and while it effects ur loved 1s as well-when that is your new life...anyway I'm sure ur daughtyer can understand and sure she too realizes every day above ground is a good one, and full of opportunities)so point hjere is I was consumed by these feelings and likely would've remained so-resentment and anger affects ur life and that of ur loved 1s and changes ur core being-it is no way 2 live! Anyway when she pointed out he chose 2 drink that day just as much as I chose 2 say drive to the pharmacy in wd unfocused etc whn I had no bzness driving...bc he had the same disease I did...well that was a hard pill 2 swallow-pun intended- but after I accepted what she said a light bubl went off! (Like I sd I'm far 2 analytical and like 2 have everything fit in a nice neat box/chart or whatev)but it clicked-had I not bn an addict I nvr wldve understood addiction...by accepting his disease of which he had not bn able 2 arrest....not him as a person...WOW- Oprahish ahah moment that truly chngd my life and began the healing process-4 me-ikdk if that's something u ever ttly resolve-4 me it hasn't happened yet-i do pray 4 him now-and not just that he get hit by a bus anymore I do pray he finds recovery and peace-most days I mean it now. Funny thing is the most effective tx's for me have proven to be exercise-pt type, yoga, accupuncture. Massage, and the good ol hot tub. See here's another thing I have found hope in-aftyer my surg in 2010 my pain level has nvr decreased 2 what it was-no reason for this-i only had a revision of a 4 level fusion (4 broken/shattered vert that were replaced w the fusion-had sm crack n the cadaver bone and one rod had slipped-they fixed those and it shouldn't have hurt after some time-DUH just few wks ago that part hit me-perhaps...dare I hope-the reason why is BECAUSE of the subs and whn I'm done (robert says 6-8 wks!! Sounds nothing short of a miracle-oddly enough I trust him more than I do these dr's and surgeons, and such...wow again)but could it be that just like when I got off all the tons of garbage I was puttin n my body and my pain was soooo much btr-that will again b the case. See again I just can't believe I could've missed that!!! Was amazed whn it was the case in '06-it took several months but I'd say I was 90./. BETTER w/o ne narcotics-yet have thought this pretty simple surg-compared to others I had-caused pain that nvr resolved?!?! Welp that's my hope and it'll take awhile to tell but regardless- I can absolutely relate to abso everything u say!! And can ttly see you not knowing or thinking you were addicted to a drug!!! My dr (frm many yrs ago) said fent patches aren't addictive bc u don't get "high" however I was already far into my opoid addiction so while I sure used those suckers-80 then 100mg's every 72 hrs-i also asked he add "brk thru" meds and you'll love this 1-my husb went w me when I realized how out of cntrl I was (had zero understanding of addiction and still thought I cld "control" it if I cld just get my tolerance down-now mind u I regretfully was going to multiple dr's by this time) we went 2 ask him how to taper fe fent patches-his answer? Opanas/oxy/roxie/percocet-then taper frm that-he used the anology "just like an alcoholic uses wine, whiskey, beer 2 p drinking..." Or some such nonsense! My husb sd gee I thought he was gonna offer us a drink lol. Anyway imo you too were led here as there is so much mis information out there-heck you could've ended up @ the dr I mentioned w/ a fent AND oxy/opana/roxy/percocett addiction!?!?! Thank u so vry much! I dnt think you'll ever understand how much bn here 4 me and "talking me down" means. I have bn here all night pouring out all the thoughts I've kept n all these months I've bn "lurking" around! Yes I talk(type a lot-but not like this promise. Oh abd btw I will not proof my posts @ this pt bc I know I'll chx out and delte and also am on my phone-im not ignorant...just a bit challenged ty so so very much! I'm gonna go lay down and get a peaceful nights sleep (and rest my hand lol) I hope you do the same and will pray for you, your daughter, and her family-not sure who but can tell some1s bn saying them for me bless you MISS Marian
Life follow Robert's insrtuctions and you will do well. And lighten up on yourself. Approach this as a learning experience. Guilt accomplishes nothing but to lower us into shame, There is nothing to feel guilty or to be ashamed of. Move forward and stop the beating of self it is undeserved. Guilt is what I feel for what I have done, shame is what I feel for who I am. Know that difference it can be important! hang tight Dog
Hey Life (Amy),
How ya doing today? I hope everything is going well for you today! Give us an update when you get a minute will ya please? I'll check on ya later girl.
Again thank you so much!!! I give you my word I will absolutely follow everything you tell me to the t!!! Like I said, standing on my head if that's how you tell me to do it!! I know you are stepping back from the forum to pursue the other endeavors the Lord has for you and was happy for you when I saw that! You have invested so much time, heart, and soul into this over the years and laid the groundwork that your work here will continue to reach many and change so many lives expotentially! Up to this point I have found answers to any question I've had right here answered multiple times over the years and assumed I'd b able 2 cnt to do so. The fact you are willing to help me now has touched my heart in a way I can't explain! I am absolutely overwhelmed you are going to do this for me!!! Following your guidance is so little to ask it is my pleasure and such a blessing to be able to do so!!!
I asked my husband how many strips I have avail since he takes care of filling them-in addtn to what I have, have on file avail at the pharm, and paper scripts that will never be filled I seriously have enough to get probably 20 people clean following your instructions!!! Seriously! Sad! However if it will be easier to cut them (and as I sd I have concerns re the absorbtion rate of the tiny little specks) I will get the 2mg strips if it will help when get to micro doses?
Re my schedule/commitments I thought well I've been ill and injured and incapacitated unexpectedly and my children were provided for, they will be now too most certainly. I plan to take my last dose friday morning, although I still have no idea what to anticipate re how long it will take...guess it takes however long it takes and I'll know when I hit the 26 on COWS chart that's how long it took. Should I hop on and notify you when I am close? Considering the half life and stacking effects of subs I fear I'm going to be "almost" there for awhile. Since I do have 4 days to prepare is there any type of vitamins or supplements I should use that will help-either during the ct or taper process? I take only a multi vitamin and calcium ches, and have no health issues that would need consideration I am severely underweight and having the norm issues thatt accompany that.I will do whatever it is you tell me to do always.
Again I can't express my gratitude...although I would honestly give you every penny and material possession I have not every penny and material possession in this entire world would be payment enough at all
Nice to "meet" you You are another member here I feel I already "know". I have admired your wisdom, advice, and perservance through your own challenges as well! Ty so much for taking the time to share your wisdom w/ me! As you prob know I've heard those same sentiments before but guess I still don't "know" them? If that makes sense? Yes, I still work on separating what I have done and who I am! Heck, took me a long time to really know who I am-vs what I was told I was and what I tried to project to others I was-then begin to learn how to like that person. Idk if that makes sense? I sooo needed to hear your words! I have really been beating myself up and "shoulding" all over myself-well you know how far that got me. So done w/ that!!!! I do know in the past the hardest things were also those that I grew the most from...when I was willing to go through them-i am ready and up to this challenge!!! I can't re do what's been done-i can however choose what I do from this point on. I can't say I'm going inot this w/o fear...but trying to look @ it like the "ickier" I feel is the closer I am to the finish line. These past few wks and mos have sure been a learning opportunity and it's just the beginning! The advice and support I've already gotten here (even w/o u knowing I was here lol) has been so valuable and truly life changing! And re following Roberts advice-DONE! Is the least I can do! I feel so lucky to have him by my side and realize while he's helping me there are sooo many others who could be benefiting frm his help I certainly will take full advantage of the opportunity!!! Again, nice to "meet" you and thank you so much for your post to me as well as all the others I read before-u have no idea how much you helped me before you even knew I existed BleSs You!
Time varies how long it will take to hit that 26 score. Let me know when you begin, you actually stop taking ANYTHING. There is no real preparation involved, just stop taking anything and it could take a matter of hours to a matter of a couple days. That is why we use the COWS worksheet as it's foolproof. Just keep me posted and as I'm subscribed to this thread I'll see it in my inbox when you post. Talk when you're ready to start. God bless.
I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.
Hello Miss Karen!
That's still so funny...as I said I just type from the hearty and don't go back and proof/edit it bc I know I would @ least strongly censor it-if not chicken out and not send it-and I had no idea how you knew my name...dang I know through your thread and posts to others you are intelligent, caring, kind...but are you psychic too?!?!? Funny. Anyway my plan is to take my last dose Fri morn and hang in however long it takes to reach the ol 26...admit I am fearful! Any other time I have gone into wd/detox I knew pretty well what to expect for how long, and was in an odd way "used to it" This time I have no clue. My fear is I will be right on the edge of miserable for days waiting for that darn sub to fall off those receptors-gosh I'd rather be abso completely straight out miserable for a few days (as w/ other opoid wd I'm familar w/) than kinda icky for days and days. But ya know I'm trying to remind myself often when I play the "what if game" and try to anticipate and project what MAY happen it isn't nearly as bad as I've blt it up to be and caused myself a lot of stress and worry all for not-in addtn to that I guess it really doesn't matter? I can't change it-it is what it is and necessary so I'll suck it up and deal w/ it-whateber it is-as it comes knowing it is getting me one step closer to my goal.
Karen, you know I read w/ excitement ea post btwn u and robert during your induction and was soOo happy for you and amazed at what you accomplished!!! However, ima be honest w/ you here-and feel I can bc I'm now 1 of "those" but quite honestly when I read people telling robert they would do whatever he said w/o question and trusted him implicitly and such I questioned the integrity, judgement, and quite honestly intelligence of such people!!! Gee I have supposedly some of the most educated, experienced, respected people in various medical fields-including supposedly addiction-and I don't trust them!! For good reason mind you! But I thought oh my imagine trusting your life to some stranhger you met on the internet?!?! I'll tell you this-after reading literally hundreds of posts from him over the years, reviewing every detail of his taper plan no less than 50 times, much prayer and talking w/ my sponsor-let me tell you I am a card carrying member of the "I trust robert w/ my life and would do absolutely anything he suggested!!" Heck Karen I may be the president!!! Now rather than questioning how people could do whatever he says w/o questioning-whn I see people ask for his help then not follow it...it upsets me! Very much in fact! He takes his time and from the bottom of his heart does what it takes to help people asking ONLY that they do as he asks (only bc he knows he is correct and is exactly what they must do to get the results he says they will-and they claim to want!) And they decide to do it their own way...I consider it a blessing and an honor he is willing to take his time to help me and that is time he could be using to do other things and helping others and they r doing w/o that bc he's helping me...told him I'd do as he says while standing on my head if he says to-and I am so serious w/ that.
Anyway that's my plan. I doubt I'll feel much like sitting and reading and typing between taking the last dose fri morn and until whenever I hit that 26-however long that is but I guess when I'm getting close I post and tell him and he will be there when I'm ready? Boy sure hope so bc I will wait until he's avail but can't wait to get staryted once I do! Oh btw got w/ husb to est how many strips I had already avail and it is sick! I bet there are enough to take about 20 or more of his highest inductions through the end of their taper. Now what is sad yet glorious is if I hadn( found this site ea one of those would've gone in my body-w/o question!!?? What??? I know once again this is long but one last thing I must share bc I am so giddy!!! Now these strtips cost a little over $10 ea rttwhile I have ins for off visits and rx cvrg it pays half of all rx's and up 2 90 films a month-over that they-being ins co-want u on the less expensive pills which my "dr" refuses 2 write supposedly to help deter diversion-and subutex which is approx $6/pill to pregnant patients only-again supp 2 avoid diversion-so I pay for 60 strips per month bc she won't write for pills in other words over $600 a month for the med plus $25 co pay for ea office visit which is ebery 3 mos in my case)anyway I have a pile of these suckers sittin here-boxes of em-since I've been tapering and not using the crazy 150 a month-and I cut some up just to have an idea of how the diff increments would be cut when the time comes-many were inaccurate so knowing I won't need em I flushed em!!!!!!! Karen it felt so good I flushed a few full 1s just to say bye bye poison that's what u are to me. Haha-a pile of them is same as pile of the other stuff u flush!!! Glorious feeling I tell u! I have heard other ppl talk of flushing pills whn quitting-personally I nevber had that experience...sadly I never quit or attempted to b4 swallowing every 1 I had posession of. Anyway wanted to share that w/ you. And sure glad I was n my bathroom n my bedroom isolated from the rest of the house bc my fam wldve certainly thought I finally completely lost it screamin then cheering having a party n the rr!!! So bundle of mixed emotions but that was a visual and emotional experience that helped get me in the right mind set. So 4 more days whre I'm at (well 3 full and half fri morn) then zero for...however long it takes, then a very low dose tapering for what robert guaranteed wld be less than 2 months!! Ty for your words of encouragement, reading my books, and inspiring me before you ever knew some crazy lady "Amy" considered you her friend!) I will go ck out your thread now and see what exciting, positive outlooks and adventures you're up to today! Oh oh I'm trying to think of some clever "tag ling/clsosing line" whatev u call it that reflects me-u know me a bit-any ideas? Nooow be nice jabberjaw or something is accurate buuut...I norm sign em's, lrs and such w/ "God Bless" but as you know there is another who has used that 4 some time while I'm sure say he doesn't "own" that imo he certainly deserves the respect to keep that as his and only hsi here-i do say much love, and hugs n kisses-neither quite appropriate here lol
Again no words can begin to adequately express my gratitude-so I'll just say thank you-2 little heartfelt words that fall sooo short!
I will take my last dose Fri morn at 8:30. I will update you of my status/progress following that.
If you have a moment could you-or anyone-please tell me how you "subscribe" to a thread so it shows up in my inbox? I apologize I know abso nothing about this forum stuff but is "inbox" something on this site or is it possible to have it set to notify my em as other things do-my ph beeps when I get an em. Can I subscribe to others threads as well? Please anyone who is able and willing to answer my goofy question I would appreciate it!
Again I promise you to do absolutely as you instruct and can't wait to join the many, many sucess stories who owe their life to you Mr Robert
I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.
I'm glad you don't edit. When I had my "taper buddy", he jumped off a high dose of methadone and i jumped from a high dose of fent patches. We just talked and talked and kept each other going through the long term w/d
s that honestly......we had no idea what we were in for. Kept expect it to get better and cheered each other on.
I never even thought about anyone else reading our thread.
We posted the absolutely most when we were the worst, you may find yourself doing the same.
We poured our souls out to each other.Every once in a while Reid would pop in and give us a cheer on, ya know? They were sporadic.....so very special.
Later, as we came out of our withdrawals, got a bit of sleep, and started dealing with real life issues is when Reid jumped in and made us family.....and from there it's all just grown.
So post when you are going through your tough times waiting. Embrace that you don't have a clue, but it will be ok.
This is a special place.
When it comes time we will bump up and make sure Robt is aware of your score.
I get the whole internet thing. I definitely was leery but saw the successes and wanted it too.
Take care kiddo.
Good grief almighty Robt!
Originally Posted by Robert_325
You did it again....
you type faster than i can think!
80 wpm, Marian! You think I could write so many replies doing this with one finger? lol God bless.
I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.
HaHaHaHa! You said it yourself girl! I love your long replies! You let it all out and I think that's totally awesome. I'll just call you "Life" or Amy if that's ok with you? You are so funny and that will carry you through the tough times.
So you think you're the president of the "I trust Robert with my life" club! LOL. I myself am a card-carrying member for sure! And why wouldn't I be? He has guided thousands through the induction and taper process with the subs! So I'm sure you will add your story to the rest. Proud to have you too!
Glad you flushed those suckers! I had to flush some Percs when I was getting ready and it was a bit sad because of what I went through to get them, but it was also exhilarating as the made turn after turn down into the abyss! LOL.
So get your game face on and lets get you started with your cows score. You are going to be really tested to see how much you really want it. I was too! But you have the right attitude and also the humor that will be needed to make the most of your experience! I will be pulling for you all the way. I know you will be a success before you even begin. You've made it clear to me how bad you want it.
Take care sweety and go get em! Many here will cheer you on as they did me. There are many awesome people here that want you clean. Your story will inspire so many others. I know mine did too. So proud to call you my friend and look forward to your next novel! HaHaHaHa!
Ms Karen you rock!!!! Sure I'm not a masochist or anything and would love to skip the wd part in an odd way I'm looking fwrd to it-ummkay maybe I'm a partial masochistic-nah jk. But it's just like the 1st step towards the journey. My sponsor is helping me get in the rt mindset to get this done. She teased me re some other things I've been through-and quite honestly this is gonna be a cake walk compared to some of those! I can deal w/ anything for an hour-and that's how I'm gonna do this-no idea how many hrs I'm gonna do it for but an hour at a time I will! And you know the thing about this is it won't last forever-it won't even last a month-likely nowhere near a week-and that will help knowing it's very temporary-ya know w/ other things you just don't know. I had 17 surgeries in a 3 month period-and knew if I was lucky that was just gonna allow me to start the painful journey of learning to walk, bend, sit-and still may not have been able to eber do so-but I knew the possibility of it would be! See I'm trying to use previous experiences to gety strength from-but also know had there been an easier, softer way out I sure would've taken a quick fix! There is no magic quick fix to addiction, I know this for sure! However I also know how powerful my disease is and how much (like ne1) I don't like feeling bad-and could decide to go for the quick band aid fix in a moment of weakness. My sponsor will have my subs in her posession. Granted they are mine and if I abso choose to bail and take them too early it is my choice-however it's gonna be a heck of a battle and 1 I'm in no way willing to take on lol. Oh you'll like this-i was whining "but I haven't really felt this for 5 years boo hoo this is gonna be so rotten bla bla bla" She says ya well you'd never been hit head on @90 mph and sure didn't have the luxury of preparing-making child care provisions, clearing your calendar of obligations...and the good Lord got you through that-he's gonna drop you on this?!?! Oh ya thx 4 reality check. So I'm trying to think of it like that-it helps me. And I keep reminding myself if I do it right I only have to do it once! Who can't do anything for a few days once??? If I let myself build it up in my mind of how bad it's gonna be...it will be bad! So while obviously I'm hoping I reach it in a few days at most (fear is being stuck at say 24 for days-like just almost miserable...bring it on!!) I guess I need to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best and know it is what it is I can do nothing to chanhe it so take it as it comes and think by this time next week Karen I very well may be here typing away, not freaking out, posting how I am stable on a few mg!!! Now that's amazing! Ty Miss Karen, Miss Marian, Dog (mr?lol), and of course Mr Robert-and every1 who's gone before and those who will come later!!! Bless you all
life, stay in today don't project what it will be like, you don't know. If you follow Robert's instructions you will probably do as well as Karen. You know what happens when we start looking forward and it is never as bad as we think it will be . Just do as Robert says and you will be fine. God did not bring you this far to drop you. And it is just Dog feel old enough the Mr. just makes it worse lol but I do appreciate the the respect intended very kind of you . You hang tight girl we are here. Dog
Hi Ms Marian!
I didn't see your post yest and was worried I scared you away the night before I'm new to the whole forum stuff-yet another learning opportunity!
Ty for the support and encouragement! I can relate to everything you say. This is indeed a very special place! I think the mix of ppl in diff stages, diff backgrounds and experience, w/ the obvious advantage of comp anonymity creates a unique forum (literally) for sharing and learning unlike any other. I'm not sure how much I'll feel like posting during the wd waiting to hit 26 on the COWS but certainly will be during the taper$ ty 4 offering to "bump up" my post as I reach that point-i get the concept but have no clue how to do that-and appreciate so vry much Mr Roberts offer to walk me through the induction but completely understand and respect he will be taking time away from his busy "real life" to do so-no idea how long the waiting period will be, but after reviewing the COWS scale and what I'll be feeling by the time I'm ready I know I'll be ready to bring it on! Lol I promised him I will do everything as he asks-and I will!-and that includes waiting til he's avail to walk me through the induction. I feel so blessed he's willing to do so the least I can do is wait until he's avail-and have a sneaking suspicion as things have just fell in place thus far that part will too-however that's supposed to be.
Again ty for all your support and willingness to share your story, wisdom, and experiences from your heart-feels pretty neat to know it's coming from 1 KS gal to the other!
Ty for those words of wisdom! You are so very right! I do NOT have a clue what it's going to be like and projecting such will only make it worse! I may build it up to far more than it is-or be in for a surprise and it's far worse-here's the thing--does it matter?!? Umm no! It is what it is and I'll take it as it comes-it WILL pass, isn't perm, I can't change it so need to worry about what I can do-which 2day turn it over! I do so hope it IS in fact like Karens!! Obv-yet if it isn't that is what my experience is meant to be bc for whatever reason I'm supposed to walk through whatev it happens to be-ONCE-and I hang onto that-i guess I'm thinking regardless what the daily process and journey is so long as the end result is the same it worked! To be clean-i want that and want it sooo bad!
Re the "mr" title I do apologize! Please know that I mean it as a manner of respect, yet can relate to your feeling being referred to as such! While I have the little ones I work w/ call me Miss Amy, and my own children are to refer to any adult w/ a mr, Mrs, or Miss, ma'am, or sir when the little 12 year old at the drive thru calls me "ma'am" I think I must look as old as I feel some days lol! So Dog it is-which means I consider you a friend!
when are you going to do this?
You are going to re-induct from 12mg subs, am i correct in this?
i'm going to be going from my house to my folks and want to keep an eye out so gettin' a time frame.
when will your last dose be?
Hello All! Hope everyone's had a happy, productive, COOL day! For our daily outing w/ the kiddos I thought a trip to the Botanical Gardens would be lovely-it was HOT-ended up bailing pretty quick in favor of another day at the water park lol! Eh suppose was better for me anyway as I am able to get some moderate exercise in the water, but Botanica requires me using the ol buggy-as we call my scooter-yet much prefer the little pool in our bkyard I can just walk out to-we don't have cool slides, wave pool, or snow cone stand though so the girls of course find the water park is the place to be
Anyway I have a couple things swirling around upstairs today so I will try my best to get em out here-and if they sound jumbled, confused, and rambling...welp guess I expressed it accurately bc that's how I feel
First I want to say this but hope it doesn't come out sounding disparaging in any way bc in my heart and head is certainly is NOT! Just has me really reflecting, thinking, and realizing something that while I knew in theory/intellectually it has really hit home and I think for the 1st time I really "get it" Okay I shared had a fam member pass the 8th-kinda reluctant 2 share this bc I've shared enough details of my life that anyone who knows me, or even ppl in our community surely know it is me-yet I also came to realize eh what the heck this is for ME so who cares, and also ne1 who comes here there is a reason they r here and just as I believe I was led hjere when I was supposed 2 b, so are they...yet this involves someone else but is how this has impacted ME not nec about them-so anyway, this person who passed-married and chose not to strt a fam and such but rather her and her husb both wanted to spend their life accumulating wealth, material posessions, and "status" among the who's who so to speak. Indeed they acquired these things and was very respected in the business community, rcvd many awards and honors, many favorable articles in the Business Journal, traveled to exotic foreign locals, did things like go to the theatre-not to enjoy the play or time w her spouse but rather to "entertain" and impress clients-did all the things she thought was expected to "be somebody" in those circles and such. I guess she attained what she set out to? Now here's what's really got me thinking, and evaluating what is truly important in life. So in making arrangements, creating the obit, starting to discuss the assets she left and the will and all...So it made me think back to May of last year. My dear Daddy went to be w/ his maker. He had never aspired to have great wealth, own a lot of material possessions, could care lesss about his "status" in society. He married his HS sweetheart, was married to his best friend for 52 yrs before she lost her battle w/ cancer, had 2 children, and tried to be a "good man" devoted himself to his family, friends, and church. He was a blue collar worker (having grown up during the depression he saved much of what he made and didn't ever realize that he e a bit of money-that didn't matter to him-except for he wished to "leave something" to his kids just to make our lives and our kids lives easier) well anyway he was honest, hard working, and kind and generous to everyone. He never met a stranger and would lit give a stranger the shirt off his back if they were in need. He often opened our home to ppl in need, taught after retirement for the union he loved so much just to try and pass on the skill and gift he had of a profession he felt had given him so much. He built houses for Humanity well into his 80's-now that bn sd I dnt mean to say he was perfect-no1 is!-yet I'm saying it was people and relationships that were important to him. He had more than his fair share of adversity and experienced much loss in his lifetime. Yet he used it to strenghten him and appreciate all the blessings he did have-and to pass that along to others and give others love, hope, and kindness-expecting nothing in return. So here's the thing-when he passed there was such an outpouring of condolences, sympathy, and people of all ages called, wrote, me by to share their own memories of him and what he had meant to them, taught them, their lives, and impacted them to become the person they were-many simply through the example he lived just being him his whole life. We were shocked how many ppl we'd never heard of who tearfully shared the impact he had on their life-he had not been employed in many yrs, had been homebound for several yrs-and we had assumed his funeral wld be a sm one consistening of our sm immediate family and a few of our close friends. Boy were we wrong!!! The church was filled and ppl were standing in the hall! There were ppl from all walks of life-faiths-socio economic levels-races-ages--from the president of his former company (who was the son of the man daddy act worked for yet remembered him and what he had meant to the company, the emplyess, and his father and uncle) dressed in his professional attire standing right next to the elderly farmer in overalls. I say all that to try and explain what I saw-what I experienced just a little over a year ago-doing so bc it is in such stark contrast to what I've seen the past few days in regards to the fam member who passed. While she was extemely generous w/ gifts and such to family-cash gifts, never something that reflected taking the time to try and find something that person wld enjoy etc-cash, and a large amount-monetary donations were made to the appropriate organizations and associations that would elicit being listed on a plaque or the paper as a donor-i don't even know how to explain this w/o sounding mean and disrespectful and that isn't my intent! But in stark contrast to the tears, stories, and heartfelt sentiments from so many when a man who dedicated his life to people and relationships vs the simple flowers delivered by the florist to the funeral home w/ the "our condolences" accompanying card, the simply written abit and articles in the paper listing so many "initials" after her name it looks more like some odd greek alphabet than a title(s), list of educational accomplishments, organizations she belonged to, positions held...What this has meant to me is a very clear reminder, and lesson that in a way I've known but I'm seeing and ex 1st hand how at the end of our lives the degrees we collect, the money we have, the prof positions we hold-a life spent aquiring stuff means absolutely nothing! What matters is the memories we created, the people we loved who in rtn loved us, the lives we impacted--that is what we are truly remembered for. As w/ anything in life I believe we are meant to learn something from it-in fact towards the end of his life daddy was very sick and suffering and he told me "well kiddo ya know God puts us here on earth long enough to learn whatebver we r supposed to, and teach whatever we r supposed 2-and until that's done we remain here-sure wish I'd learn or teach whatev it is I'm supposed to so I can go have my reward of spending eternity w/ him" so I'm thinking I have many, many yrs left here bc I obv have so much left to learn-maybe something to teach along the way-but this lesson-maybe the most important one-i have learned-now I need to always remember it and put it in practice for as long as I'm supposed 2 b here learning, maybe teaching-but hope when my time comes that I am not a teaching example of a life spent worrying and working to achieve things that in the end do not matter...at all. Okay once again I know that was a long ol mess that prob doesn't really make much sense 2 anyone but me-but to me it's been a huge eye opener and opportunity to remember something I 'knew' and make sure I don't lose sight of when all those secular things intrude on what's really important-people and relationships. Eh that's just my own take away from this day and wanted to write it bc some day I may get brave enough to read thru this mess I've bn writing-and sure hope I'm living this lesson that until today never really truly hit home and sunk into my heart as it did today. It has really made me sad to see the life of someone who I love and know truly did have a big heart, who aquired all she set out to yet in the end is really a life wasted...I will make sure noone is ever sad saying this about me-and I guess for what it's worth that's a pretty important impact, leSson, and memory left behind...a sad one though
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