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Is Dr. Shopping illegal in California??
  1. #1
    doc.rose is offline Advanced Member
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    Default Is Dr. Shopping illegal in California??

    I have a older brother who says that dr shopping isnt illegal in California. I say it is. Can anyone out there let me know if it is illegal?

  2. #2
    Freedom4me is offline Advanced Member
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    You win. It is illegal.

  3. #3
    doc.rose is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom4me View Post
    You win. It is illegal.
    thanks!!! My brother says that a patient has the right to see as many doctors as they want. I said that is true, but what makes it illegal is you arent telling the doctors about each other and getting the prescriptions under fraudulant conditions!!

  4. #4
    caughtagain is offline Diamond Member
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    Didn't Michael Jackson live in Cali?? Ask his Many Doc's how they are feeling right about now... Ding Ding, we have a winner. Tell your bro he is wrong..... i agree with free. I can see the DEA interview now... "Uhm, hmm.. It is legal" DEA Agent, " Nope, and now I will need to read you your rights." The End.....CA

  5. #5
    Freedom4me is offline Advanced Member
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    Doc.rose,
    If he is Dr. shopping, he will get caught eventually. All narcotics go into a database that pharmacys and doctors have access to. If he gets red-flagged, ouch! The thing that concerns me though and should concern you as well is that dr shopping is a symtom of addiction. You may want to find out why he is doing it and for what drugs. I smell trouble down the road if you don't. You are a good sister to care.

  6. #6
    doc.rose is offline Advanced Member
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    so in other words, what makes it illegal is getting a controlled substance under fraudulant circumstances, right?? I tried explaining this to my brother and he said, "one thing I know a lot about is the law, and there is no law regarding dr shopping!" He is nuts!!!

  7. #7
    doc.rose is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom4me View Post
    Doc.rose,
    If he is Dr. shopping, he will get caught eventually. All narcotics go into a database that pharmacys and doctors have access to. If he gets red-flagged, ouch! The thing that concerns me though and should concern you as well is that dr shopping is a symtom of addiction. You may want to find out why he is doing it and for what drugs. I smell trouble down the road if you don't. You are a good sister to care.
    We were actually discussing my little brother who is the addict. My llittle brother lives in florida where there is no monitoring system. So I was telling my older brother about how my brother and his girlfriend are able to get there hands on so much medicine each month. They go to different docs and different pharmacies. So I said to my older brother that is they lived in California and did this, they would hopefully get caught doctor shopping. thats when he told me it isnt illegal!! I said it was!! I said that even if someone gets caught, they might not go to jail but they will for sure get red flagged and never be able to fill a prescription in the state of california again!!

  8. #8
    doc.rose is offline Advanced Member
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    my older brother doesnt use but he is the kind of person that thinks that all adults have the right to do what they want. Meaning, if our little brother wants to abuse prescription meds, then who are we to tell him otherwise! Maybe since I am a female I am a little more sensative to the fact that my younger brother is killing himself!!

  9. #9
    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    California has apparently been in the process of building an online drug database that will make it easy to catch people doctor-shopping:

    http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/c.../full/43/14/10

    I don't know if the database has launched yet; this article is from last year.

    I think the whole question is a little bit complicated, because there are Federal controls on these drugs, but a lot of the enforcement is done locally. In the end, it doesn't matter what laws are on the books in California: messing with these drugs is a Federal offense and if the DEA finds you, you're toast. Strong local legislation makes it harder to get away with, but it's not LEGAL anywhere.

    I would not want the DEA coming after me!

  10. #10
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I can't believe that anyone would be naive enough to think that dr shopping is legal period anywhere .... not even in a movie! Tell him to go start hitting pharmacies with scripts from dirty drs and see how long he lasts.

    I don't care where he lives. He will have a very short-lived career. The DEA has made dr shopping a HUGE priority in this country. And federal agents will enforce it on a local level whether the city, county, or state authorities involve themselves or not.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  11. #11
    doc.rose is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I can't believe that anyone would be naive enough to think that dr shopping is legal period anywhere .... not even in a movie! Tell him to go start hitting pharmacies with scripts from dirty drs and see how long he lasts.

    I don't care where he lives. He will have a very short-lived career. The DEA has made dr shopping a HUGE priority in this country. And federal agents will enforce it on a local level whether the city, county, or state authorities involve themselves or not.
    I agree!! But until florida sets a system up, this is what happens!! Did you know that 85% of oxycontin prescriptions are written out of florida!! The other 15% is the other 49 states!! That's nuts!!!!!!!

  12. #12
    Rangers is offline Member
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    doc.rose,
    I am fairly new to this site and have learned alot from some very knowledgable people here. Let me just say, look at my post titled Dr. Shopping by Ranger. Lets just say I was very lucky, and as you have already heard from others here, your brother will get caught, it;s just a matter of when. Most states have the following already in place, and if they do not they will by early next year. It is called the PMP program. (prescription monitoring program) All narcotic prescriptions go into the DEA database. Dr.s, Dentists and pharmacists all participate and are tied into one another. If a health care provider wants with a password they can quickly glance at a patients history to see if they are filling multiple scrips. So can the DEA. Yes, you can probably do it for a very short period of time, but once they see a pattern is set, then you be spending some very lenghty time behind bars. Trust me I know! I was not caught, again read my posts. Henry, are you out there? You may want to comment. I would definitley talk to your brother, as he can be messing with his life. best of luck.
    Ranger

  13. #13
    HenryNCBA Guest

    Default Doctor shopping is illegal everywhere!

    Hello Ranger,
    I'm here. Sorry I wasn't able to see this yesterday. To simply answer the question of "Is doctor shopping in California Illegal" that answer is a simple YES!!! In fact doctor shopping is illegal anywhere in the Union. I live here in California right in the San Francisco Bay Area and after exhaustively researching this issue there is absolutely no doubt that it is highly illegal. I was afraid I was doctor shopping but I was not. It is true that there is no law against going to different doctors but remember this and I ask you this in a question format. What is your reason for seeing different doctors? It is one thing if you have a certain condition such as say Kidney stones and you go to emergency and are scripted say vicodin for pain. Then you go see your primary and he gives you a scrip for some more vicodin and he tells you that you should see a urologist and they specialize in kidney stones and can advise what to do during and after the stone if it is small enough and it passes. So you go to the urologist and he scrips percocet. Is any of this illegal? No it is not. There is a real reason for the office visits and a real reason for the scrips. Now take the same scenario and say you have a kidney stone. You go to emergency and the physician gives you a scrip for the vicodin. Okay so far so good and everything is legal. He recommends you follow up with your primary, which you do, and he gives you a scrip for more vicodin. So far still okay. Your primary recommends you go to a urologist and you go. Meanwhile you pass the stone but you want the meds so you go to the urologist and he scrips percocet. Is this illegal? That depends. It is not doctor shopping but technically you will fall into the control substance abuse category. The real need for the medication stopped when you passed the stone and after the pain went away. Where you felt pain days afterwards or not is subject to debate. Sure you could tell it to the courts that you felt pain but believe me there are not going to just take your word for it when they put out that much time and money to bring you into court. The will have the opinion of not only your urologist but also a certified medical professional that specializes in urology and most likely it will be another doctor. The difference is that doctor is there to tell the truth. If there is any contradiction it will go on and on. Now going back to the subject. Say you passed the stone and you got your last scrip from the urologist and you want more so you go back to him/her and they say "no". So you go back to your primary and he/she says "no". Frustrated you say talk to some friends or just pick a name out of the phone book or go to a clinic or what ever to acquire more meds. Are you doctor shopping? Darn right you are. You are searching for a medical professional for the purpose of acquiring a scrip to feed your habit. Do you see where I am coming from on this? It is cut and dry. If you have a legitimate need and go to legitimate doctors and they give you legitimate scrips after legitimate exams/tests it doesn't matter what or how many scrips you get from these doctors providing that you don't do something dumb like take a 30 day supply scrip from the primary and another 30 day scrip from the urologist and put these on top of a scrip from the emergency doctor then take all this and fill them in a couple days. No one except an abuser needs that many pills period! The doctors may not know this but the pharmacy sure does and a pharmacy is not stupid enough to casually just fill out scrips for controlled substances to anyone and it doesn't matter whether you pay cash, credit, insurance or whatever. There is a paper trail. Why do you think they ask for >> and other personal information when you go to get the scrip filled out? Why do you think it is called "controlled substances?" Don't try to be naive, as the law won't look at you like "oh you just didn't know". It doesn't work that way and if you think so then go right ahead and mess up your future. It's your life. Just don't take down any innocents with you by being a loser. I don't mean to sound harsh but it is what it is. If you go from doctor to doctor because the one's you went to either won't fill the scrip you want or you don't want to make yourself obvious you are not fooling anyway. Everything is computerized and trust me your name and profile WILL pop up and you WILL be on the radar. You may think you are cheating the system but all that is happening is law enforcement is letting you put the noose around your neck and tighten the rope all by yourself. It makes their job so much easier and try to talk your way out of something like that. The "I didn't know" won't cut it. Prisons are full of "innocent" people that "didn't know" right? Sure the justice system might make mistakes every now and then but do you even want to go through the hassles and perplexities to find out? Your call because it's your life. I say DON'T DO IT!

    Henry

  14. #14
    HenryNCBA Guest

    Default Re: Doctor shopping is illegal everywhere

    To everyone,
    I apologize if I sounded harsh. I am not targeting or pointing the finger at anyone specific. If you feel like I was then my apology as that was not my intention. Dr. shopping is a very real problem and is costly all the way around. People that have a drug habit, including myself, for whatever reason know all too well the power of the craving. It is something that can and does make us do some strange things and sometimes those things are outright illegal. Whether or not you know it or not is not the issue as in the eyes of the law left is left, up is up, down is down, right is right, in is in, and out is out. That is why laws are so specific. There is a fine line between what "appears" to be doctor shopping and "real" doctor shopping. This is one of the reasons that the agencies responsible be it federal, state, local, county or municipal won't just arbitrarily come knocking on your door and arrest you. They need to establish a case first otherwise they have no way to prove you did anything illegal. Remember this is the USA and here you are innocent until proven guilty. The "proven guilty" part they let you do that all by yourself, which is why, there are monitoring systems. As it was stated you might get away with it in the beginning but trust me that someone is watching and it starts from your doctor and or pharmacist. For some states I constantly hear people saying that they purchased from a Mom and Pop pharmacy. It doesn't matter. No legitimate medical professional that is certified to write scrips is going to just hand a scrip pad to you or fill out a scrip unless they really think you need it. Think about this now. If you look at the piece of paper the scrip is written on you will notice it is not just regular bond paper. It is a security-enhanced document that is legally binding. You will notice print patterns if you hold it up to the light. You will see watermarks even. Hidden strips of code, etc... This is how bad abuse had progressed. Next you may have noticed that when you get a scrip filled they, unless they know you and that means they have your data, that they ask name, phone number, date of birth and or what ever. Okay say you faked it and somehow by passed this part. Have you ever seen a pharmacy without and I repeat without a camera? When they pull an investigation they view the video or photo feeds as well. You cannot lie to a camera if your face and profile is in plain view. How will they know? Very easily. You take a scrip in for a controlled substance. They fill it out and punch it into their system. The see or can pull up a listing to see if you are filling multiple scrips of possibly the same sort of substance at other pharmacies. They may not know which pharmacies because of the privacy act but your profile does pop up. So say you just filled a scrip for vics. They see you also filled out a scrip for percs somewhere else. And they also see you filled a scrip for Oxycontins at another place. All this within a few days? It doesn't take much to see that you are either abusing the drugs yourself or feeding someone else’s habit or selling them. You do the latter two and you just racked up more points for Club Prison. Those are different crimes. Do you see where this is headed? You are hanging yourself. You didn't just commit doctor shopping which is a crime but also controlled substance abuse and that is whether you use the drugs or not just by the fact you filled out the scrips. If you don't use the drugs then why did you fill out the scrips? See what I am talking about? If you gave it to someone you know because they may not be able to get to the pharmacy, is a relative, spouse, handicapped person, whom ever it doesn't matter. You just committed another crime. Scrips are written for the individual so named only. You don't write scrips for person A so they can give it to person B. That is all kinds of trouble not even waiting to happen but just happened already. You can only fill scrips for yourself only. That is why your name is on the scrip. Now if you acquired the scrip and sold the whole thing or part of it or even one pill you just committed another crime. You are now dealing not to mention purchased with intent to distribute and sell. These are only just some of the things you will be nailed on and guess what? The are not like parking tickets but are felonies! That means you lose a lot of rights. You can never work for law enforcement, you cannot vote, you cannot posses or hand a firearm, and the list goes on and on. You will have a hard time just finding a job and jobs are bad enough trying to find as it is and with this economy the way it is government at all levels are looking to justify their budgets, acquire outside funds from fines and penalties, create jobs because someone has to now monitor, watch, or guard you, etc.... You can see how this all ties in together. Even the camera deal. Law enforcement knows how their (and I say "their) game is played. If they even went in to look at say a video feed for person A and checked out video feeds from other pharmacies also for person A but they also kept seeing your face on the feeds you just gave them probable cause to look you up. They didn't intentionally target you arbitrarily as that would be illegal. You did it to yourself. Again you see where I am coming from on this? If you get a speeding ticket they won't ticket you unless you were speeding right? Okay yeah I head that excuse before myself but we are being realistic here and not pretending to be between the fine lines. You got nailed for speeding because you were speeding. They didn't tag you because they knew it was you and they waiting specifically for you because they told you to do it. You did it all by yourself and that is why laws are written. Individuals do wrong things which is why laws and rules are there. You break them you pay. Do the right thing and be legal and law abiding and you have no worries. I know I will probably hear some flak over this as there is always that "BUT" but save your time and energy on that one. Just don't doctor shop and you won't have an issue period. Everyone have a great evening, come clean soon, be healthy and may you all have a great and happy future.

    Henry

  15. #15
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by doc.rose View Post
    I agree!! But until florida sets a system up, this is what happens!! Did you know that 85% of oxycontin prescriptions are written out of florida!! The other 15% is the other 49 states!! That's nuts!!!!!!!
    I want to make a comment about Florida not having a system. I'm not sure how far Fla. is in implementing their system. Some states already have them. However, when I first was researching dr. shopping, Fla. was really cracking down. Because Fla. has such a transient population in the form of "snow birds" and has a rep. for oxy, I wouldn't put out the word that fla. doesn't have a system. I'm not sure if it was on the board here, but someone moved from Texas to Florida and got caught "shopping". People were taking advantage of getting drugs in Fla. because it's a vacation state. Every pharmacy purchase of opiates, anyway(not sure what else), is registered into a data base, whether or not the PMP is fully implemented. But I agree with everyone else, if you dr. shop, you will get caught eventually. Paying cash at a pharmacy, mom and pop or not will not protect you.

    Peace,

    IloeRose

  16. #16
    caughtagain is offline Diamond Member
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    Rose, how are you and Elby? I miss talking with you..... CA (your friend from the state below)

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