Dr. gave me NO info about sub, w/d, PAWS, I wasn't even a candidate!

[deleted7]

Finally decided to get help with the prescription narcotic addiction that I've had for the last 8 years. I didn't have to be detoxed, because my routine of abusing my scripts was:

I'd get 100 Tramadol and 120 Norco (the highest dose, can't remember the numbers) a month. I'd eat the Trams within a week, then go to the Norco which would last about 1-1/2 to 2 weeks (depending on my discipline in making them stretch). Then I was without anything til my next doc appt, which was on a monthly basis- BINGE addict. (I don't think I'm "special" because this time I was lucky to excape physical w/d, I know I'm just as much of an addict as anyone else - maybe worse, cause I don't have that w/d to help me remember how bad it was.)

When I went into the ChemDepProg in my hospital, they asked if I needed detox. I hadn't taken anything for about 6/7 days at that point, and told them I didn't think I needed Detox, as every other time I was in between doc appts, I never had w/d symptoms. They allowed this, depending on their observation of my symptoms.

Never had any w/ds, but starting on the 2nd day, my counsellor said "We have to get you on this med, suboxone, to handle cravings, which can prevent relapse." I guess I'm too trusting of authority (he'd been doing that job for 19 years, and was himself a recovering alcoholic and addict).

He found me a psychiatrist (off-premises) who's trained in sub, who put me on it five days after I'd checked in to the ChemDepProg, with no w/ds at all!!!

I feel like I was lied to by omission. My ChemDep counsellor knew about the problems getting off sub, the sub psych knew it...I guess I should have asked, but at that time, I didn't even know the questions! So now....

I've been on it for almost 8 months. Started at 16mg (8mg/am, 8mg/pm). Last month dosing was changed to 8 mg/am, 2mg/noon, 2mg/pm, and he started talking about weaning. About 2 weeks ago I really started researching sub, after reading things that didn't sound right to me in this/other forums and medical sites, concerning sub. I will see the doc again this Saturday.

I feel like I've been sucker-punched with a sledgehammer! I'm terrified of the w/ds from the sub, and then the PAWS afterward (never even heard of PAWS before, nor did any of my docs warn me about any kind of w/d...now I'm seeing anywhere from 4 to 8 to 12 weeks just to get over the initial withdrawal, and to get the doc to prescribe low dose opiates to help the w/d symptoms? WHAT??? Or the active ingredient in Imodium (which is supposed to also be addictive).

Then PAWS...that sounds like pure he** !

Not trying to excuse myself, but when I went to the ChemDepProg, I was just 3 days off a Norco overdose, scared to death about the whole "quitting" thing (as I'm sure all of us are/were), and at 2 days in, they were still throwing stuff at all the newbies so fast, I couldn't even remember my own name! I'm sure people who have to make the decision to use sub while actively withdrawing from their DOC have it so much harder; so like I said, no excuses for me. I just gave my power over to the program and docs, and like a fool, believed in what they did say, and what they didn't say.

Is there anyone here who can fill me in on sub w/d and PAWS? No sugar-coating (please); I'm sure I'll need it down the line, but right now I want the whole ugly truth; or, if I'm doing my research in the wrong places, and might have read some exaggerations.

Please let me know, and thanks so much - I can't tell you all how much I appreciate this community.

bobbie

[musicman48]

Finally decided to get help with the prescription narcotic addiction that I've had for the last 8 years. I didn't have to be detoxed, because my routine of abusing my scripts was:

I'd get 100 Tramadol and 120 Norco (the highest dose, can't remember the numbers) a month. I'd eat the Trams within a week, then go to the Norco which would last about 1-1/2 to 2 weeks (depending on my discipline in making them stretch). Then I was without anything til my next doc appt, which was on a monthly basis- BINGE addict. (I don't think I'm "special" because this time I was lucky to excape physical w/d, I know I'm just as much of an addict as anyone else - maybe worse, cause I don't have that w/d to help me remember how bad it was.)

When I went into the ChemDepProg in my hospital, they asked if I needed detox. I hadn't taken anything for about 6/7 days at that point, and told them I didn't think I needed Detox, as every other time I was in between doc appts, I never had w/d symptoms. They allowed this, depending on their observation of my symptoms.

Never had any w/ds, but starting on the 2nd day, my counsellor said "We have to get you on this med, suboxone, to handle cravings, which can prevent relapse." I guess I'm too trusting of authority (he'd been doing that job for 19 years, and was himself a recovering alcoholic and addict).

He found me a psychiatrist (off-premises) who's trained in sub, who put me on it five days after I'd checked in to the ChemDepProg, with no w/ds at all!!!

I feel like I was lied to by omission. My ChemDep counsellor knew about the problems getting off sub, the sub psych knew it...I guess I should have asked, but at that time, I didn't even know the questions! So now....

I've been on it for almost 8 months. Started at 16mg (8mg/am, 8mg/pm). Last month dosing was changed to 8 mg/am, 2mg/noon, 2mg/pm, and he started talking about weaning. About 2 weeks ago I really started researching sub, after reading things that didn't sound right to me in this/other forums and medical sites, concerning sub. I will see the doc again this Saturday.

I feel like I've been sucker-punched with a sledgehammer! I'm terrified of the w/ds from the sub, and then the PAWS afterward (never even heard of PAWS before, nor did any of my docs warn me about any kind of w/d...now I'm seeing anywhere from 4 to 8 to 12 weeks just to get over the initial withdrawal, and to get the doc to prescribe low dose opiates to help the w/d symptoms? WHAT??? Or the active ingredient in Imodium (which is supposed to also be addictive).

Then PAWS...that sounds like pure he** !

Not trying to excuse myself, but when I went to the ChemDepProg, I was just 3 days off a Norco overdose, scared to death about the whole "quitting" thing (as I'm sure all of us are/were), and at 2 days in, they were still throwing stuff at all the newbies so fast, I couldn't even remember my own name! I'm sure people who have to make the decision to use sub while actively withdrawing from their DOC have it so much harder; so like I said, no excuses for me. I just gave my power over to the program and docs, and like a fool, believed in what they did say, and what they didn't say.

Is there anyone here who can fill me in on sub w/d and PAWS? No sugar-coating (please); I'm sure I'll need it down the line, but right now I want the whole ugly truth; or, if I'm doing my research in the wrong places, and might have read some exaggerations.

Please let me know, and thanks so much - I can't tell you all how much I appreciate this community.

bobbie

Suboxone w/d symptoms can be minimized by tapering properly.If you jump off at to high a dose you will have problems.Please read this post on information related to Suboxone tapering.If you do this the way that has worked for many on this forum "including myself" you can avoid the major w/d symptoms.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[MaisieC]

You certainly haven't been treated very well, and I don't blame you for being upset. That really stinks.

But you can take care of yourself, especially because you have a good supportive community here. And I hope you have a live support group, too, in addition to this virtual one.

It sounds like your upset about your poor treatment is getting mingled somehow with your anxiety about the suboxone and potential withdrawal symptoms. Please try not to freak out. As musicman says, you can taper off the subs very successfully. I'm sorry you have to do that, but you really will do OK. And please don't get worked up about PAWS right now. You're worrying about this way too early, and perhaps completely unnecessarily. You may not get any PAWS symptoms at all. Or you may have mild ones. Don't worry about this, and just do what you need to do right now.

Please take good care.

[deleted7]

I appreciate the advice and I'm so sorry my original post was so freaked out. From now on I'll preview my posts both for weirdness and for length

Musicman, I read the link you provided; if I understand correctly, I should wait til the doc has me down to 4mg a day, then check back in for recommendations on continuing to taper?

MaisieC, you're right about me mixing the doc part of this with the sub part. When I'm in my right mind I can keep the two separate, and I know I'll have to handle the two separately. (Hope this doesn't offend, but those docs better wear their steel cups )

I don't have much of a support group at home, so I do appreciate the support here. I've read so much info the last couple weeks on the w/d, PAWS...and it seems like sub should only be used for w/d from a person's DOC (since I didn't have physical w/ds, obviously I'm wondering why I'm on sub - that's something I'll take up with my counsellor & my docs). But...can't go back and change the past, so I'll just (with the help here) take it day by day.

Anyway, I'll try to calm down, hang around here and listen to those who know what they're talking about from experience, not from just having alphabet soup after their names

Thanks for your help, I'll be talking to you soon. I'll be thinking of you and hoping you're both doing well.

bobbie

[MaisieC]

Hey Bobbie,

No apologies necessary! That's why we're all here, to help support each other. And weirdness happens.

I don't blame you at all for being upset.

But you will be OK. Hang in. Thanks so much for your kind wishes!

[cath12]

Finally decided to get help with the prescription narcotic addiction that I've had for the last 8 years. I didn't have to be detoxed, because my routine of abusing my scripts was:

I'd get 100 Tramadol and 120 Norco (the highest dose, can't remember the numbers) a month. I'd eat the Trams within a week, then go to the Norco which would last about 1-1/2 to 2 weeks (depending on my discipline in making them stretch). Then I was without anything til my next doc appt, which was on a monthly basis- BINGE addict. (I don't think I'm "special" because this time I was lucky to excape physical w/d, I know I'm just as much of an addict as anyone else - maybe worse, cause I don't have that w/d to help me remember how bad it was.)

When I went into the ChemDepProg in my hospital, they asked if I needed detox. I hadn't taken anything for about 6/7 days at that point, and told them I didn't think I needed Detox, as every other time I was in between doc appts, I never had w/d symptoms. They allowed this, depending on their observation of my symptoms.

Never had any w/ds, but starting on the 2nd day, my counsellor said "We have to get you on this med, suboxone, to handle cravings, which can prevent relapse." I guess I'm too trusting of authority (he'd been doing that job for 19 years, and was himself a recovering alcoholic and addict).

He found me a psychiatrist (off-premises) who's trained in sub, who put me on it five days after I'd checked in to the ChemDepProg, with no w/ds at all!!!

I feel like I was lied to by omission. My ChemDep counsellor knew about the problems getting off sub, the sub psych knew it...I guess I should have asked, but at that time, I didn't even know the questions! So now....

I've been on it for almost 8 months. Started at 16mg (8mg/am, 8mg/pm). Last month dosing was changed to 8 mg/am, 2mg/noon, 2mg/pm, and he started talking about weaning. About 2 weeks ago I really started researching sub, after reading things that didn't sound right to me in this/other forums and medical sites, concerning sub. I will see the doc again this Saturday.

I feel like I've been sucker-punched with a sledgehammer! I'm terrified of the w/ds from the sub, and then the PAWS afterward (never even heard of PAWS before, nor did any of my docs warn me about any kind of w/d...now I'm seeing anywhere from 4 to 8 to 12 weeks just to get over the initial withdrawal, and to get the doc to prescribe low dose opiates to help the w/d symptoms? WHAT??? Or the active ingredient in Imodium (which is supposed to also be addictive).

Then PAWS...that sounds like pure he** !

Not trying to excuse myself, but when I went to the ChemDepProg, I was just 3 days off a Norco overdose, scared to death about the whole "quitting" thing (as I'm sure all of us are/were), and at 2 days in, they were still throwing stuff at all the newbies so fast, I couldn't even remember my own name! I'm sure people who have to make the decision to use sub while actively withdrawing from their DOC have it so much harder; so like I said, no excuses for me. I just gave my power over to the program and docs, and like a fool, believed in what they did say, and what they didn't say.

Is there anyone here who can fill me in on sub w/d and PAWS? No sugar-coating (please); I'm sure I'll need it down the line, but right now I want the whole ugly truth; or, if I'm doing my research in the wrong places, and might have read some exaggerations.

Please let me know, and thanks so much - I can't tell you all how much I appreciate this community.

bobbie

I too was put on sub and never heard of it before that's why i decided to get on the net and collect information and look for a little extra support. My meetings and sponsor can only do so much thats where my dr comes in. I've been on prescription drugs for too long but after using for so long it's easy to go back. So if this is where im at right now i can only trust that i'll have alittle time to work on the behaviors that got me here and the rest will work it self out. i didn't get here over night and it will take some time to get back what i once had and love every minute of it. keep doing what your doing get out of the blame game. There are people out here that care and thank god for that!!!i'm here... pray and go tomeetings gey honest with thy self..god bless cathy

[musicman48]

I appreciate the advice and I'm so sorry my original post was so freaked out. From now on I'll preview my posts both for weirdness and for length

Musicman, I read the link you provided; if I understand correctly, I should wait til the doc has me down to 4mg a day, then check back in for recommendations on continuing to taper?

MaisieC, you're right about me mixing the doc part of this with the sub part. When I'm in my right mind I can keep the two separate, and I know I'll have to handle the two separately. (Hope this doesn't offend, but those docs better wear their steel cups )

I don't have much of a support group at home, so I do appreciate the support here. I've read so much info the last couple weeks on the w/d, PAWS...and it seems like sub should only be used for w/d from a person's DOC (since I didn't have physical w/ds, obviously I'm wondering why I'm on sub - that's something I'll take up with my counsellor & my docs). But...can't go back and change the past, so I'll just (with the help here) take it day by day.

Anyway, I'll try to calm down, hang around here and listen to those who know what they're talking about from experience, not from just having alphabet soup after their names

Thanks for your help, I'll be talking to you soon. I'll be thinking of you and hoping you're both doing well.

bobbie

That is correct.Although perhaps your Dr has a proven taper plan.If he does not,we can help you taper completely off suboxone after you reach the 4mg per day level...Robert_325 developed a taper plan that has worked for many people on this forum.'including myself".This plan calls for individual monitoring and dosing suggestions once you get to 4mg a day.We will be glad to help you if you would want our help.Good luck to you. Let us know if you need any advice.MM

[Dawnioe45]

[QUOTE=musicman48;226814]That is correct.Although perhaps your Dr has a proven taper plan.If he does not,we can help you taper completely off suboxone after you reach the 4mg per day level...Robert_325 developed a taper plan that has worked for many people on this forum.'including myself".This plan calls for individual monitoring and dosing suggestions once you get to 4mg a day.We will be glad to help you if you would want our help.Good luck to you. Let us know if you need any advice.MM[/QUOTE[COLOR="Red"][/[B][/BHI MUSICMAN48 HAVE TO HEARD FROM IRBOY84 MY NAME IS DAWNIOE45 I WAS WORRY ABOUT HIM. I LEFT HIM A NOTE I FELT BAD FOR HIM I KNOW HE WAS LOOKING FOR SUPPORT I TOLD HIM I WOULD BE THERE FOR HIM ... IF YOU HERE FROM HIM WOULD YOU DROP ME A NOTE .. THANK YOU

[deleted7]

That is correct.Although perhaps your Dr has a proven taper plan.If he does not,we can help you taper completely off suboxone after you reach the 4mg per day level...Robert_325 developed a taper plan that has worked for many people on this forum.'including myself".This plan calls for individual monitoring and dosing suggestions once you get to 4mg a day.We will be glad to help you if you would want our help.Good luck to you. Let us know if you need any advice.MM

I'm seeing my sub doc tomorrow 2/27. As you can guess, I have many questions for him, but will handle it like an adult, because that out of control, ranty behavior was what I used to do when I was high.

I'm going to ask him if he can give me a bit of a schedule, so I can kind of know in advance what's coming up (and not schedule anything stressful when it might be hard for me to handle).

If I can get some taper schedule info from him, I'll check with you to see what you think of it.

Thanks again.

bobbie

[Robert_325]

bobbie ..... I'm going to give you a link to read. This is how we like to see people use subuxone/subutex. But it will make our suggestions make more sense if you read it.

I think if you adhere to the suggestions in the following link you can taper off sucessfully without a lot of w/d symptoms. Let us know if you want to do this. The amount of time you've been on the suboxone hopefully won't cause any extra problems. We will have to see how you do with it during the first taper. Let me know if you want some help with this. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html