Down to the Wire..

[ClassiqueMom]

I found this forum searching for successful suboxone withdrawal and am seeking
advice from Robert if he is still a part of the community.

Robert, bless you for the time and wisdom you will share. I will try to be as suscint as possible..

In 2006 my son spent five months w/a urologist (due to extreme pain in his testicles) found the source of pain to be a "rotated sacriliac joint" and a physiatrist was treating that.

The pain was getting worse and they found a herniated L5-S1.

He had numerous procedures done to no avail.

This is when he was prescribed oxycodone.. upped to combination of oxycontin & morphine

He held a job and ministered in the community ..

ahead 4 years..

the pain got worse

he said something more extensive was wrong -

dr's / insurance company said noooo...
your getting immune to the pain killers and you must go to pain management.

insurance requirements - no more oxycodone/oxycotin/morphine scripts.. you
MUST try opana treatment ..

on opana, he was losing work due to worse pain, not enough meds, than he felt he needed.. and he would run out of medicine using more than prescribed to fulfill work duties) often ending up in the ER days before he could get a refill.. shots of dilaudin were the treatment ..

his father and i became his medical advocates at this time.

i insisted SOMEONE prescribe another mri .. he was right

(he insists he KNOWS his body well) .. it appears he knew it as well as an mri did..

this is a young man (29 yrs old) who didn't drink pop.. eat fast foods..

said he was the "master" of his body at one time, now he is a slave to it..

the mri revealed in addition to the L5-S1 .. L4-5 (taking had blown out.

He had a spinal fusion, and the mri revealed and the surgeon confirmed L5-S1 had slightly repaired itself so nothing needed done there..

while recouperating from surgery he was let go of his job..

I asked the pain mgt dr. (post-surgery) to please slowly drop his dosing so that he would be successful getting off it. ... dr. agreed

after surgery he was on 120 mg/day opana..
second month 110 mg/day

father and i dispensed meds first two months to avoid abuse..
he managed okay..

third month 105 mg/day

we (foolishly) gave him control of the meds.. he ran out two days ahead of time.

(we had some extra meds set aside and could have supplemented him in the meantime, but he didn't tell us that he'd taken more than he should have..)

instead..
went to the pain mgt dr (ahead of his appointment) and told him he was out and needed medicine, without his father and i knowing..

his file was flagged by the insurance company at that time..

at his next pain mgt appt.. neither his father or i were able to go w/him..
dr. dropped him from 105 mg/day down to 40 mg/day

a 60 some % drop !! (i have no idea how the doctor felt this would precipitate a successful taper) ..

this is when the bottom fell out.

an aside..
pain mgt dr. received a letter from surgeon who said this kid needs to be OFF pain meds, it was the worse thing that ever happened to him.. (yet this surgeon .. nor has anybody since the very beginning, ever addressed the L5-S1/sacroiliac joint problem)

son feels the surgery was successful, but still complains that the L5-S1 (hips, lower back, testicle pain) is debilitating.. we watch him when he thinks we're not.. i do believe he is in some pain..

i am not ignorant.. i know some of this must be.. surely is.. the drugs

during the first two weeks of 40 mg/day, he was self dosing at about 75 mg/day..

(again, foolishly, his father and i figured he knew and could deal w/the consequenses if he abused and used more than he should.. and trusted that
he wouldn't do that, risking running out ahead of time)

he did..

we found out and confiscated the meds.. calculated.. and had only 15 mg/day to dispense til the end of the month.

he was in substansial w/d for about a week before he called another new primary care doctor..

the pc, not knowing anything about pain management prescribed a 30 day supply of opana ER at 40 mg/day..

this dr. said he would write that script under the condition that he seek suboxone therapy..

(the script the pc wrote was - ONE 40 mg pill instead of 20's and 5's like the pain mgt did.)

sooo his body is somewhat in withdrawal for about 12 hrs a day, unless we break the pills and give him 1/2 and 1/2 - (and yes, we know you shouldn't break or crush opana ER's *sigh*)

the pain mgt dr. has dropped him for breaking the contract.

there is no where to go to continue the opana..

he and i met w/suboxone dr last thurs.. induction is scheduled for this thursday..

i have since that time read an awful lot about suboxone.. and feel that he would be jumping from the frying pan to the fire.. yet, it seems we have no other option..

we do NOT have enough opana to taper him at home in a way that he should be

can you see the conundrum that we are in?

personally, i do NOT want him in suboxone ?therapy? .. it seems it will only drag out the inevitable.. even possibly end up worse than where we are now..

when he was going thru w/d during the 15 mg/day until he got the script from the new dr, i started him on high quality fish oils (omega 3's) .. high quality undenatured protein to increase glutethione levels.. vitamin c .. B complex .. ubiquinol .. and some juicing..

i know he is addicted to the pain meds..

i also have read that no one has ever died trying to get off them..

yet, i know he is afraid..

he says the pain has disabled him.. he can't live w/the pain..

yet, i wonder how much of it is real??

and, what if it is? (i believe the pain in his testicles is most troublesome) .. he walks w/a cane when he is not laying down.. he cannot walk, sit, or stand for more than 15 minutes at a time without having to move in a different position..

i am seeking advice and wisdom..

i wonder if finding ??? or somehow ?? getting a script of percocet or something for when the opana runs out would be a way to keep him from suboxone..
and be a means of which to taper him down and off the pain meds..

yet.. i don't know if attaining them is possible.. and if it were.. would it even be an option for successful taper?

and.. if it is.. i have no idea what our options would be, should the pain after being off the meds is real ...

thank you for bearing with me as i explain this nightmare we are living..

what advice can you give?

i appreciate your wisdom, help ... advice from the bottom of my heart..

Classique Mom

[cheekysod]

a conundrum indeed,

yup he is addicted, suboxone is for drug addicts for sure,
but it is not a very effective pain killer, it was used here a ways back, but in tiny doses, eg .2 and .4 mgs.

if your son is in genuine pain, the subs are not gonna work, but they will help him to taper off, and get clean, then you will have the pain to figure out.

sounds like he has built up a tolerance to all sorts of opiates, and displayin the classic signs of bein an addict, like using too much, running out early, cant be trusted with his own meds, gettin flagged,

im a drug addict, and have used subs to get clean, (well nearly there), it does have its uses,
is there nothing they can do for his condition except pain releif, coz that doesnt actually fix the problem does it ?

and i guess the big question is, does HE want to get clean, or is it you who wants him to be clean coz he wont do it for someone else, its gotta come from within,

all the best
cheeky

[cherdox57]

Sorry to hear about your son's problem with pain and with opiates. I have a similar case. Diagnosed with Fibro and Spinal Stenosis and was prescribed up to 120mg of oxy's and 90mg of Morphine a day to control my pain.Increased to that over a 10 year period.
I wound up with Hyperalgesia where the pain meds caused me pain. Had to come off the pain meds to see where my true pain level was. Used Suboxone. Got down to .75mg and my pain all came out. In short you will be able to use Subs to get him off the pain meds but if the pain is real then you must address how they are going to deal with it when the time comes.
That is where I am at. Went back up to 2mg and reduced to 1.5mg of Subs and finding the Subs just can't control my pain. Presently have an appt with a doctor to hopefully work with me because I don't want to go back to where I was or stay on the Subs. As Cheeky told you they are not an effective pain med.
Just some info on my experience with the Subs. Presently on Lyrica for nerve pain which is helping to some degree.
Hope you can find answers to get him off the opiates but still address his pain issues.
I am a mother and know how it must break your heart to see your son going thru this. You seem to be very supportive and doing everything in your power to make sure he gets the help that he needs Wish you good luck and will be here for support.
Cher

[jammymommy]

Hi Mom.
Yeah, cheeky's right - he's got to be invested in getting clean - but I TOTALLY relate (as do a TON of others on here), to the fear of PAIN.

It may be time to cut the boy loose to make his own choices...
Love,
jammy
momma to ten

[Robert_325]

Mom ....... the question has been previously asked .... Does HE really want to get clean himself? I can help him with sub therapy, that is no problem. If he got clean and off the opiates his pain would likely be less than it is now as addiction is painful in itself with one being in constant w/d. But will he stick to a sub therapy plan? I need to know that.

If he got clean he could then reassess his true level of pain. If it's a case where he is simply addicted to the meds, then he would feel better. If he truly has a chronic pain condition that won't go away subs won't handle that type of pain.

This has to be his call. I will help him if HE is commited to doing it. It won't do any good for me to invest a bunch of time or for you to just WISH him clean unless HE makes the commitment to follow through. If he will commit to doing it I will offer him my guidance gladly. Then he would know for sure what his situation truly is. If he is going to be in severe chronic pain for life there are other routes to take. But he wouldn't know that unless he got clean and the pain was re-evaluated while he was clean. But again HE has to make the commitment to follow through.

I can't make him clean. I can direct him and if he listens and follows the instructions he'll get clean where he can then make an acccurate assessment of his pain. Can you get HIM on here to speak with me? I think that is imperative for us to proceed further with this. God bless.

[ClassiqueMom]

thank you all, for your replies ... i sincerely mean that!

i am sadder than you can imagine to say, to the point of tears from a broken heart,
that he does NOT want to be off the pain pills..

he has been told repeatedly by people who love him.. and doctors, that in order to correctly assess his pain he must be off the pain meds.. but, he doesn't believe it.

he says, that's all people care about.. him being off the "pills" .. all people care about is the "addiction" .. that nobody believes his pain is real

and.. he believes that the only relief to the pain is the pills .. therefore, he needs them..

an anology that he uses: would you deny a diabetic the medicine that enables them to live and function? why would you deny a person the medicine (pain pills) that allow them to live and function.. (you see he did live a "normal person's" life when this all started.. responsibly holding a job, etc as i previously mentioned..

yet, won't admit that it had alllll gotten out of control..

and since he is in this mindset, both the suboxone and pain management dr's said he wasn't ready for suboxone.. but both doctors, apparently realize he has no other options but suboxone (this is because there is no other doctor to prescribe the opana .. and ? or ... insurance company dictates)

so, at end of conversations w/doctors.. they say this is his only option..

as far as him getting on here.. i think just the mention of it would anger him..

btw.. his short term disability is running out, so he (we helping him) had to apply for long term.. AND Soc. Sec. Disability..

i tell you this to set the scenerio of a comment he made..

since nobody will give me the means (medication) to work and hold a job.. I'll just do what they say.. apply for disability and go on suboxone and get off the meds just like everybody wants..

sooo.. you see... this is NOT something HE wants to do..

he is convinced (i'm realizing it actually - deceived - by the meds themself) that he needs the pain pills to function.. yet, his functioning on the 40 mg/ opana ER that he is on now, is nothing but laying on the sofa.. walking around the house using canes.. having someone put his shoes & socks on (because of the pain of bending) ..

he won't feed himself (prepare his own food) .. he must be told/encouraged to shower.. he managed to drive to the SS office because of necessity.. but by the time he did that, he was hurting soooo badly ...

he left me a note this morning:

"I fell asleep! but woke at 2:15 muscles spasm-ing bad and thick pain was burning and stabbing (as it does when it waxes to worse condition). I took 3/4 of pill, then, and soaked my back in a hot shower. Was less bad, but decided to take the last 1/4 @ 2:45 hoping to get back to sleep.. trusting I will be able

I hope and pray so much to escape the more unbearable pain these last few days before it's going to be actually excruciaing, and i know it won't be possible after wednesday morning. I don't even want to think about it.

But I am trying hard to be settled and use any time of peace in body and, therefore, mind too to prepare for the road ahead when there is not relief or supplementing in any way. God be with us."

------------------

so there you have it.. his mind set..

i do not know what else i must do or say..

on a personal level.. this is going to be one of the most difficult things i've ever had to go thru.

on thursday, while he is in w/d, i will.. must.. have my two granddaughters.. 3 & 1 yr old(s) .. and care for them.. watch him suffer.. take them with us to the induction..

for those of you who have faith in the LORD, and believe in prayer.. please, remember us

thank you for your help..

what doesn't kill us, only makes us stronger, right? *sigh*

[azul diablo]

Classique, you always come here and offer support, why don't you update YOUR situation for a change and not be 100% selfless for a.change!

[cryin out]

love and hugs CMom.

[ClassiqueMom]

Classique, you always come here and offer support, why don't you update YOUR situation for a change and not be 100% selfless for a.change!

hi bluey..

i missed this post of yours! God bless you for finding my thread and asking for an update..

i so hesitate to ever post anything, simply because, -- just incase my son comes here, for info, or support, or *shrugging shoulders* -- i just don't want to betray any confidences, and well... i can't help but continue to hope that he'll be the one here explaining his situation

but.. what i wrote above in october of 2010 .. could be the very same thing i'd write today..

the only difference is, 15 months have passed, and the the only difference is now, the 'medication' is suboxone and not oxy or opana, or whatever!

and once again, he has taken things into his own hands..

he went to see 'a doctor' who prescribed him ?some opiate? not sure which, oxy or something? only to have the insurance company flag him at the pharmacy

and of course, they wouldn't fill the script..

and-- now-- his sub dr won't see him.. AND won't release his records .. i guess because of breaking 'the contract'

fortunately, his father has been saving suboxone from all the scripts he's had filled over the past year (the dr would prescribe for 3 - 8mg a day - but some weeks/days he'd only take 2, and have some left over .. his dad would scarf up the xtra's and put them away -- for such a time as this)

well.. now, there is no choice but to get off the suboxone..
he said he realized this is the wrong treatment for him.. that he should have never accepted it in the first place, yada yada..

so, 'we.. his dad & i' have him down to 3mg a day..

most advice we share with him, --what we (i) have learned on here, is rarely taken to heart .. why? because - HE'S the one 'going thru this/living with' the pain, etc.. and 'we' really don't 'understand'

two things to summarize .. and it's always! the same two things..

1) .. the pain ..

everytime i read a sentence here at the forum where somebody posts about back/hip/leg pain while going thru detox, (and especially those who weren't taking this stuff BECAUSE of original pain) .. i cling! to the hope! that the pain he lives with is BECAUSE of the medication, and once he gets off it, then truly, his pain will be managable ..

but.. unless he gets off, and stays off for some weeks (i know henry said it took a number of weeks before his pain went away once he was off the subs)
then we will never know..

and

2) this has to be something HE wants.. i know that!

when i said that i could RE-POST my original post, because nearly EVERYTHING is the same, i meant that.. nothing has changed.. especially his daily activity..

and, i am sure, that if robert reads this post, his reply would be pretty much exactly as his original reply.. and i believe every word robert said.. but it's not up to me, ya know?

when i am brave enough to bring up the word(s) addict, or addiction.. the reply is always.. 'yeah! i'm addicted to anything that will relieve my pain'

my son was once a brilliant, vibrant young man.. ....... ........ ......... .......

i am sooo very sorry for the longgg post.. but i've held this in so very long

and if my kid ever comes here, and reads this.. and feels that i've betrayed any confidences.. well... i guess i'll let the chips fall where they may..

thanx again, bluey! for inviting me to get it all out..

the solution? i know 'we' need a miracle .. so, i continue to live thru this hell of watching a life wasting away, and wait.. and pray

[azul diablo]

You're just being a caring and concerned mom, nobody could as for more. You're always a help here and are constantly offering support to others, I just wanted to make sure you were aware that you have all of our support as well if you ever need it!

[ClassiqueMom]

You're just being a caring and concerned mom, nobody could as for more. You're always a help here and are constantly offering support to others, I just wanted to make sure you were aware that you have all of our support as well if you ever need it!

thanx, much! bluey!
(hope it's okay to call you that! -- i saw it once, and like it .. much better than the 'devil' part

i so do appreciate the support!

in my mind, i thought it would be really cool, if somebody could be a
'secret texting pal' .. you know?

what i mean is, somebody would offer to text him, and just ask/say,

i know what ur going thru.. so tell me, how ur doin'..

and then go from there.. helping to encourage and walk him thru this taper we
have him on..

somebody who actually has been there, and truly knows...

*LOL* .. but, the kid (oops, i mean, young man) can't even manage to keep
his phone in service.. and we are not able to always help out with those kind of "unnecessary" "things" ..

.... but back to my reason for this response..

thank you, bluey! (i have admired you for a long time, now, and wanted you to know)
I ask God's best blessing on you!

------------

cryin'out.. i didn't mean to not respond to you, for your earlier post.. thank you too, especially, for your prayers!

Classique MoM

[Denny_D]

thanx, much! bluey!
(hope it's okay to call you that! -- i saw it once, and like it .. much better than the 'devil' part

i so do appreciate the support!

in my mind, i thought it would be really cool, if somebody could be a
'secret texting pal' .. you know?

what i mean is, somebody would offer to text him, and just ask/say,

i know what ur going thru.. so tell me, how ur doin'..

and then go from there.. helping to encourage and walk him thru this taper we
have him on..

somebody who actually has been there, and truly knows...

*LOL* .. but, the kid (oops, i mean, young man) can't even manage to keep
his phone in service.. and we are not able to always help out with those kind of "unnecessary" "things" ..

.... but back to my reason for this response..

thank you, bluey! (i have admired you for a long time, now, and wanted you to know)
I ask God's best blessing on you!

------------

cryin'out.. i didn't mean to not respond to you, for your earlier post.. thank you too, especially, for your prayers!

Classique MoM

Hi Mom .... I 'm thinking of you and your Son and also Praying for the both of you every day and just wanted you to know that ok? God Bless....Denny

[ClassiqueMom]

Hi Mom .... I 'm thinking of you and your Son and also Praying for the both of you every day and just wanted you to know that ok? God Bless....Denny

thank you, denny, it means the world to me when somebody will pray for us.. and you know, i pray for you, as i've told you before..

nuttin' like knowing that your name/need is being mentioned over and over, before that glorious throne of grace!

i believe God is using this forum (--& those who participate in it) in so very many ministering ways.. it's a wonderful thing to "see"

to "see" lives being changed for good is so encouraging, and gives hope when one thinks there is none!

[Denny_D]

thank you, denny, it means the world to me when somebody will pray for us.. and you know, i pray for you, as i've told you before..

nuttin' like knowing that your name/need is being mentioned over and over, before that glorious throne of grace!

i believe God is using this forum (--& those who participate in it) in so very many ministering ways.. it's a wonderful thing to "see"

to "see" lives being changed for good is so encouraging, and gives hope when one thinks there is none!

Amen ClassiqueMom!

[ClassiqueMom]

just felt a need to update on my kid's progress..

He's been on the suboxone since October 2010

at one point he was up as high as 16 mg/day.. (dr.'s orders, you know???!!! grrr!)

wellll.. (if you read post #9 back in January '12)
you'll see how we got to the point that we truly began a taper..

His dad and I refuse to give him the chance to 'self medicate'
so, we divide up his doses, and put them in empty gelatin capsules

I am proud to say his next drop, starting tomorrow will be .50/mg

the taper has been a longgg slowww one, because, every drop,
brings with it such bad withdrawals..

as an aside.. he does NOT know when we are dropping him, so
his father and i are actually able to 'see' the effects of the drop
each time..

this is one of the reasons my heart soooo goes out to those of
you going thru the same thing.. i actually see first hand what
many of you feel, and are going through..

we've been dropping mike by 12% instead of Robert's recommended
25% .. and he stays on that dosage for anywhere between 7 & 14 days

his mind is soooo much clearer.. but his pain.. ahhhh *major sigh*
just never! seems to quit...

when i read of the pain that people here suffer getting off of suboxone..
(and i'm speaking specifically the people who have no actual physical problems)
i can't help but wonder what IS that pain they are speaking of??

but i see it in him, with each drop..
and it hurts to watch him suffer..
especially knowing his withdrawal pain is compounded by his real physical pain
-or- visa versa..

sooo... after this.. we'll have probably 4 more drops

.375
.25
.12
.05 ???
then skipping..

his rotated sacrilliac joint seems to
be the most cause of his pain..

health care has given him a whopping SEVEN
physical therapy treatments this year,
and this post could get mighty long if i started
venting on that!!

his physical therapy 'treatments' consist of the
SAME protocol that everybody gets..
NOT one person/dr. even trying to get him to
be seen or cared for by somebody who specializes
in the sacroilliac joint!!! *grrrrrrrrrrr*

if UPMC health care is supposed to be one of the
best health cares in the world.. may God help us all!!

please, friends, please, remember my kid in your prayers

Much love, care and many prayers for all of you here!
Classique MoM

p.s... thanx for listening to my 'ramblings'

[Robert_325]

Your son and your family remain in my prayers! He's getting SOOO close! Happy for him and remember once he's clean that everyone he even encounters in life will be positively affected by this. One person gets clean and it can literally affect thousands of others over time! God bless.

[caughtagain]

Mom, He will be there before you know it and he will be himself again. My thoughts are with you and your family as he gets closer to the finish line! All my best, Reid

[shadowwally]

Classic Mom...
I know what your fear is......pain will take him down. You know that my pain went to bearable levels after coming off the opiate pain.
I don't know if you remember that my daughter was in a horrific accident two years ago at the age of 31. she lost her spleen and one kidney. Her bones are not in the correct places but there's not much they can do about that. she was in surgical icu for 3 months and coded 4 times.
there really is a point to this......she goes to Kansas University for robotic engineering and found out she could actually sign up for a class on physical rehabilitation for herself. She has had a doctor and 3 interns working one on one with her from water therapy to weights. They contacted KU med before designing a program specifically for her. During the summer she swims, they put in a pool after her accident. It's not easy but it works.
She also before this was given the drive by therapies given to everyone. At KU they were excited and thrilled to work up a program for someone young, willing to gain strength and be off pain meds.
So just a suggestion.......any place he could enroll in a couple of classes and take such a class.? She even gets credit for it.
Anyway.....I know you know my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
Marian

[ClassiqueMom]

Classic Mom...
I know what your fear is......pain will take him down. You know that my pain went to bearable levels after coming off the opiate pain.
Marian

Hi Marian!
yeah.. i kinda didn't wanna go there just now..

i dunno, maybe cause i just want to live in my
'dream world' just a little longer..

i keep holding on to the hope that the lower he
gets on the subs, the less his pain will be..
even tho---- from having read here since i've joined,
i know, it's NOT UNTIL people are off of the meds
for some weeks THAT they realize the pain levels
are less.. (I remember, specifically, Henry, who said
it was THREE weeks for him.. and others, i know, it
didn't work out until some weeks off)

Is mike going to go for this? my heart tells me
emphatically, NO .. but, still, i hope and pray.. pray and hope..

i even wonder? what can we give him, just to keep him
hanging in there, til it's out of his system, to see IF, or how much
the meds are the cause of the pain..

*LOL* .. the only thing, silly me, can think of is..
crushing up baby asprin!! IT'S the only thing i know that's
orange, like the subs *LOL* .. not that i'm foolish enough
to not realize, that he'd know the difference in a heartbeat
once he 'tasted' it.. but.. then..

A few weeks ago, i came across intelmetal (Steve's) thread
about Darvocet being his silver bullet.. (<--click)

ha! i have a storehouse mix of percocet, opana, oxycotin,
oxycodone, morphine, vicodin.. all stashed away (only a little of each)
but NO darvocet! go figure!

I KNOW my son! he may be 'addicted' to this stuff, but i also know
his heart.. the LORD owns it.. and he would NOT stay on this stuff
IF it wasn't for true pain..

He told me yesterday that he's beginning to serious consider a
Rhizotomy.. which truly scares me.. seems like such a drastic measure..
but, i suppose only somebody who is not in constant pain would see
it that way *sigh*

I said, maybe? he should contact some place like cleveland clinic -or-
a charity hospital like st. vincents in ohio before going to such extremes??

soo.. i keep praying for the miracle.. keep waiting and trusting..

Marian.. how would one go about looking into the kind of help
your daughter received?

--------

Praying that you're hanging in there! .. How's your dad doing?
How are YOU doing?

thank you, too, for your thoughts and prayers!
You know you're in mine!

Classique MoM

p.s.. no matter how hard i try to keep my posts short
(about 'my/our' problems here) i always end up
going on and on.. .. thanx, all, for hanging in there with me

Classique MoM

[shadowwally]

Mom....
I just googled the treatment he is considering and also the rotated joint problem.
I don't doubt that he is in pain.
I also don't doubt that it will lessen off opiates.
soooo.......
my daughter is enrolled in Kansas University, Lawrence, Kansas.
They are also affiliated with a medical school KU Med.
It's a state university.
My son did his undergraduate and graduate studies there, which is what Angie is doing......
all this time neither noticed this "course" was available until last semester. Wish we had noticed it two years ago!
It offers lots of medical degrees, including physical therapy. So Angie gets credit for taking the "therapy" course, and the interns get credit for helping her. Like i said there is a doctor there also.
It's very hard work, but they are great at urging her on and pointing out her progress.
Soooo what you need is a state university which also has a medical college.
He could sign up for just enough classes to go, get the Pell grant, and if there is a medical school at that university, more than likely they will offer the same course. My kids just didn't think to look before, and believe me, Luke, her brother has been involved in helping her with yoga therapy (which helps) this whole time, teaches there at times, and still they didn't know this course existed!!!
I don't know where you live, but Kansas has 3 state universities....one is known for medical, physics, math and computer engineering etc.....that is KU, the other is very well known for engineering, a vetinary college.....the third is considered the "teaching college" which is Emporia State.
I would imagine if Kansas has all this probably your state does too. He needs to go to the university with the medical school.
Hope this makes sense.
Even though Angie was in KU Med for all that time when she got out she truly was only offered the basic physical therapy that is one size fits all just like your son which was basically worthless for her. Also she had passed the "life time" cap of her insurance by then. By law that has now changed, or will change soon if the health care law stays in place.
Not being political here AT ALL........
I re-read this and still don't know if it makes sense.....let me know if you need more info.
I have faith that this will work out for your son.
(Dad doing well, he talks to mom every nite and tells her how the day went, so sweet). I'm fine also.
thanks for asking.
Marian

[ClassiqueMom]

okay!! freak me out!!!
haven't even finished reading your
reply and HAD to post this!

my daughter's name is angie, TOO!!!!!

ohhhhh!!! myy!!! are you my long lost sister?? *LOL*
(just kidding!) it's just that the similiarities between
us is tooooooo amazing!!

btw.. I also worked as a teacher's aide in the public
schools...

*shaking head* .. soooooo amazing!!
okay.. back to reading your post..
and then off for a full day of
grandkids where we play alllll dayyyy longgg *LOL*!

{{{hugs, Marian}}}
-Classique MoM

[ClassiqueMom]

hi marian!

sorry for the delay in reply..
day 2 of kids allllll day longgg

(it's a joke here, because when
they come, they want to know if
they can stay and play allll day longgg
ohhh... to be a kid again! but this is as
close as i'll get, i imagine *LOL*)

thank you for all the info..

we do have a university here, with
the medical school..
University of Pttsburgh /Medicine

the insurance company taking everything
over here, is ALSO univ of pgh..

a huge! conglomerate .. 'supposedly! the best!'

i could tell you stories that would make you spit fire
about this 'conglomerate' !!

sitting in a dr.'s office one day a few years back,
i happened to actually read the mission statemtnt
that UPMC had on the wall.

No kidding!! the first line of about a 5 paragraph statement
said:
To make an economic impact in the pittsburgh area!
.... it wasn't until the LAST paragraph, that it mentioned
patient care!!

they have since changed their mission statement, to
say something about patient care, but the
VISION of upmc continues to be: making an economic
impact in the pgh area!

sooo we see where their priorities lie, eh?

anyhow..
i'll check it out and see what i can find
re: the info you gave me..

thanx for the time you took to explain it all to me!

sooo glad you're doin' good, and your dad too!

hope you know, you hold a special place in my heart!

{{hugs}}
Classique MoM

[shadowwally]

Hey Mom....
yeah, if i'm not at my dad's i'm with my grandkids so know you are busy!
Angie is not pain free....nor will she ever be probably.
it breaks my heart sometimes, but i'm so glad she's found a way through without drugs.
sometimes i just tell myself that i can't help her or anyone else by taking on their emotions or pain.
it doesn't do her anygood, nor I. i can listen, empathise and help a lot better without "going there".
hope that makes sense.
i shed my tears at nite when i'm alone for her, for dad.....and remember that i'm not alone in this, and i'm basically pretty darn lucky.
sometimes she worries about the future because of all the damage that was done, all the daily CT scans, x-rays......and she has a right to worry. i just figure that by the time those things catch up to her, the doctors say about 15 years, science/medicine will have it all figured out.
ah well, we could all be hit by a bus today, so we better enjoy what we have!
Take care sis....lol!

[ClassiqueMom]

...hope that makes sense.
....

yep.. i pretty much understand it all..

and yeah.. none of us promised tomorrow..
so, just for today!

you do know, you & yours are in my prayers!

may your plate never be more full than the
amount of strength and hope the Good LORD gives you!

{{{hugs}}}
Classique MoM

[azul diablo]

Best wishes towards the end of this journey and the start of a new one!


I can guarantee this, your son is a lucky man to have you in his corner!!!!

[ClassiqueMom]

thank you, bluey! from the bottom of my heart!.. thank {{you!!}}

[Robert_325]

Mom ...... It's the truth! You've stuck in there with him a long time. My mom did the same for me! For 35 years she never gave up on me. Don't know if I would have made it without her. When everyone else was against me she might be mad at me, but she always tried to help me and NEVER gave up. We only have ONE mom, no one else will ever love you like your mom if you're as lucky as me! And I think your son is lucky too! God bless.

[surfdog]

Mom was just reading your thread you are in my prayers, you offer so much to those on here you are classy and classic! praying for you and God Bless Surfdog

[ClassiqueMom]

thank you, surfdog!
i've followed your journey since you got here.. (and your son's too)
you've come soo far.. and been such a blessing to soo many here!
may those blessings come back to you 100 fold!

and robert, i've thought of your mom often when you'd mention her,
and thought what a strong, strong woman she must have been all
those years..

i'll never forget the day the gospel hit home with me..
(tho, I didn't 'act on it' immediately)

mike was only 5 years old, and broke his arm..
i guess the medical system way back then wasn't much better than it is now..

it was on a 'holiday' weekend, and there was no doc at the ER to set his arm.. they
sent us home, and said: "Come back tomorrow" ..

wellll.. when i watched the pain he was in, wayy back as a little boy,
all i wanted to do, was take that pain from him, and put it upon myself..
(of course, there was no way that i could) .. but !!! it was then, like
I said, that i got my first glimpse, /small understanding of what the
LORD did for us..

anyhow.. this place of being a 'mom' sure has it's teaching moments,
whether they come thru pain or thru joy ..

one thing i DO know.. there IS a reason for this..

I can attest to the fact that the LORD has not allow us to go thru this pain and sorrow,
without walking by us and sustaining us..

with that said.. it is still not easy.. but i will not stop hoping, believing and loving..

thanks, Robert, for your kind words!
The LORD bless you and keep you!

Classique MoM

[surfdog]

MOM have to admit was a little reluctant to post at first, but glad I did feel comfortable here. Don't know if this will help but the Houston Clinic in Columbus Ga is doing amazing things with Non Invasive back surgery. Might be worth a call and sending info on your son. They have fixed things no one else has been been able to think about doing. They do a lot of work on these high dollar Pro Ball players. And they do charity work. your son's condition sounds like something they may be able to do. Just a suggestion.
Thank you so much for the kind words. My son finally got it together and is doing well now. If I can get this heart stuff back under control where I can get back out doing some things it will great. However every new day is a blessing and being on this site is a big blessing.
I have seen so few make it during my career and years sober it is nice to see this many people motivated to get clean. God Bless you and your family Surfdog