Do Not Suffer From Withdrawl, You Don't Have To Anymore

[Lil Stevie]

About four years ago I needed to detox as I was going into the hospital for a very major (12 hour) operation. Even though the pain clinic I go to is attached to the hospital there is ALWAYS a problem for someone that uses a lot of opiates prescribed or not. You will always bump into a doctor or a nurse that does not believe in long term narcotic use and they have their ways of expressing it, much to your detriment. I have been there done that and was not going to do it again.
I went on line and searched for quick detox. I found a drug called Ibogaine. It is not allowed in this country I made a number of calls to this clinic in Mexico and after my due diligence I decided to try it. I got on a plane and went to San Diego. I was picked up at the airport and driven to the clinic in Playas del Sol Tijuana (sp). We stopped by a Lab on the way and they took blood and urine samples. Later that afternoon I met the director of the clinic and filled out about 1000 pages of information By then I was crashing very badly but they told me I had to be off for 24 hours. Doesn’t sound like long but most of us know what 24 hours w/o meds is like. I expressed my displeasure of having to wait but they filled up the time with forms and getting my room setup. I had a private room with music, bathroom and a nice view. I took my test dose which lets them know if you might possibly have a reaction before they give you the mega dose to clean out your system. I had a complete physical by a doctor. By 7:30 that evening, it was a Monday I was given the proper dosage according to my weight. There was a doctor on staff at all times and two very nice nurses as well. They have four rooms and usually have 2 to 4 people taking at the same time. If you do a little research you will find that this medicine has been used for many years in South Africa as a rite of passage for young boys going into puberty. The idea is that this med unlocks their brain and they visit, in their head, past ancestors of the tribe and learn why they are in Africa and what life is all about. After they go thru this experience they become men in the tribe’s viewpoint.
Well there was a fellow by the name of Howard lotsoff (sp sorry Howard) who was travelling thru the area with friends and he convinced the tribe to let him try it. He went thru the experience and the following day ne noticed he didn’t feel the need to reach for his heroin. Yes he was a junkie. He thought it was strange and so he asked some of the other people he was with to try it and the same thing happened. After they went thru the experience of this drug metabolizing thru your system they as well (the junkies) all felt no desire to get high.
OK what happens you might be asking I have never heard of thishow could this be?No withdrawal symptoms or at least no more than 10 % or so. In my case the experience lasted three days. I took at 7:30 as I have said. Around 45 mins later I started seeing faces floating around me and a slight buzzing in my ears. Next I was watching a filmstrip of my life I watched myself being born I found I could stop and rewind it anytime I wanted to, I could hear and speak to people just as if they were right in front of me, I found that I could also play some what-if's with myself, for instance. I watched as I tried my first diet pill and I felt the rush of the amphetamine going thru my system. I saw what happened next and I said to myself "if I didn't take it what would have happened" I played those games with other points in my life where I made decisions that probably , ok defiantly were not in my best interest and again I was able to see why I made the decision I did. That "life review" goes on for anywhere from 6 to 18 hours. The nice thing is, and if you haven't got it by now this is a hallucinogenic, just as with any of them if you find yourself in a bad spot you just open your eyes if they are closed or close them if they are open. It will reset the film strip and you can restart where you want to.
I hear people now.... if you could take a medicine one time and be off the junk w/o withdrawal everyone would know about it. WRONG and there are some legit reasons but mostly it is the Gov't being paranoid that it might be abused. I will tell you that yes it is somewhat like LSD on steroids but how many times do you want to see your life experience. I think there is also a group of people, some here no doubt that feel it should not be that easy to get off. It’s a legit question but in my opinion very misguided.
Ok so when you get past the life experience part of the medicine you then go into a period of reflection where you spend , again anywhere from 1 to 12 hours reviewing what you went thru. To go just a little deeper as you may know there was a time (and it may now be beginning to be used again) where LSD was used in a psych offices. The patient would ingest the drug and the Dr would lead them thru the trip. Well this medicine actually comes with its own guides. I know it’s hard to get your head around but this medicine gets so many neurotransmitters firing all at the same time I am sure if you could look inside of someone's head that is on a trip it would look like the fourth of July.
Anyway in my case I was in the review period for at least 10 hours. As the drug metabolizes thru your system it turns into Nor-Ibogaine a different compound. Well the nor-Ibogaine starts to plug up all of the opiod receptors. In my case I swear I could feel them being sucked into a receptor and sticking in real tight. The best way to refer to this medicine is to call it a drug addiction interrupter. . If you take the Ibogaine and then continue on living your life the way you were when you were using you will just slip back into the old habits and start using again. It takes anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks for the nor-Ibogaine to fall off the opiod receptors.
This experience in my case went on as I said for almost three days. I was physically spent when I finally climbed out of bed and made my appearance downstairs. Like I said I was the only patient that week so I had the run of the place and a doctor of my own and two very nice nurses. I was pampered and fed whatever I wanted. The second day after I got out of bed they had a physical therapist come in and he worked over my body something fierce. He did a Swedish type massage. A deep tissue Swedish massage. I have to say it hurt like hell but felt oh so good, if you can relate He squeezed all the poison of fifteen years of heavy PRESCRIBED narcotics. I was totally addicted don’t get me wrong. Anyone that takes narcotics prescribed or not will eventually become physically addicted. Some I have heard as low as 10% will become an addict and will show signs of drug seeking behavior. Even those poor souls deserve pain relief with narcotics in my opinion if warranted. The problem is control. They are a doctors worst nightmare I am told. At least we are now beginning to see doctors becoming less afraid of the DEA and treating that group of folks as well. Again I am talking about people that have concrete medical reasons that narcotics are one part of a chronic pain treatment program.
This medicine WORKS I had very little withdrawal symptoms. Really all I had was some loose stools for a few days. I have had the pleasure of going thru withdrawal once where I was stuck out of country with out medication. It SUCKED and I don't ever want to have to experience it again. I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemy. It is a sin in my opinion that you have to go underground and break the law if you take this medicine in this country. As I said I went to Mexico and there are clinics now in Canada as well as all over Europe. This is NOT a drug that you close the door and pop a pill by yourself and have a wonderful time. YOU can NOT be alone when you take this. You really in most cases are not able to move on your own. I heard a very loud noise that brought me partially back to the real world during my experience. I noticed that there wasn’t any up or down or left or right so if the house catches on fire you will more than likely watch it burn around you. It is best taken in a clinical environment with professional people around you 24/7 it is not a drug that you go into lightly. There have been a few deaths. I think I know why, but I would say that there are thousands of addicts that die on the streets every year and untold thousands that OD every year. This drug will give someone that has decided to get off the junk a chance to get clean. Opiate withdrawal is a nasty horrible time consuming hurtful wasteful did I say nasty experience. I wrote my Senators and everyone else I could think of. I said at least give it to the people we have now put on maintained methadone. These are people that have made their minds up to be clean and all we are doing now is keeping them hooked at taxpayer’s expense so they don't go out and rape and pillage to support their habits Joking people don't get upset. I got nowhere. I am getting tired but I do tell everyone I meet, if I can get the conversation in that area. Everyone knows someone that either has a problem with drugs or has a relative that does. The Ibogaine BTW also works on crack addicts, smokers, really any addiction, again as an INTERUPTOR. You must get into a support group and change the people you were associating with if you are serious.
Ok my fingers hurt so I will stop. You can Google Ibogaine and find tons of stuff. PLEASE do not let anyone tell you to just buy some and take it and you will be cured. If you would like to chat about it feel free to pvt me or I will watch this thread and respond when I can. Right now I am going to take cover as I imagine it will be a throw for a bit unless this has been discussed b4 in this forum
Steve

[cheekysod]

yeh bro it has been discussed before on this forum,

unfortunately for most people firstly they dont have the up front 2 or 10 grand you spoke of, and secondly, the money to get to mexico or wherever.

i like to think i have an open mind, ive read a few threads about ibogaine, yeh, sure it does work for some people. and thats good.

but in reality, it is far from the reach of most suffering addicts. and also, im my opinion, a bit dodgy to say the least. most addicts, have had periods where they have GOTTEN clean, but its the STAYING clean thats the hard bit..

good for you tho
cheeky

[Lil Stevie]

yeh bro it has been discussed before on this forum,

Unfortunately for most people firstly they don’t have the up front 2 or 10 grand you spoke of, and secondly, the money to get to Mexico or wherever
.
Steve Answers: You are right it isn't for everyone but I don't think the money issue is as big of a hurdle as you do. A lot of addicts are hooked on H but a lot are hooked on oxys. At street prices it won’t take that long to burn up 2K. Along that same vein I had an employee that worked for me for many years and it was discovered that she was embezzling money. Just small bits at a time but she had been doing so for a long time and when we worked the numbers out it was around 30K. When asked she said that she needed extra money to live on but had no where to get it. She was given a chance to not have a record if she could repay the money within a given time. Her record is clean as her mother put it up. I think you would be surprised at the ability for people to come up with some money to keep a loved one or relative out of jail. I think addiction is worse than jail. Granted not everyone has the ability to do this. As far as getting there, well I can get airline tickets to San Diego from the east coast for $199.00 R/\T. There are also clinics in Canada as well as a few underground clinics in the states so I am told.

I like to think I have an open mind, ive read a few threads about Ibogaine, yeh, sure it does work for some people. and thats good.

Steve Answers: It works for any addiction even cigarettes but that would probably be overkill LOL. This drug plugs up all the opiod receptors in your body. You just don't have the craving in the pit of your stomach or the nasty withdrawal symptoms that cause most addicts to be unable/ unwilling to go cold turkey and subject their body to a month of hell.

But in reality, it is far from the reach of most suffering addicts. and also, in my opinion, a bit dodgy to say the least. most addicts, have had periods where they have GOTTEN clean, but its the STAYING clean thats the hard bit..

Steve answers: Well a large part of how this medicine works is by showing you the reasons you are using. It’s very hard to explain but it comes with guides (as real life as you or I) that are with you thru the experience and help you to understand why it doesn’t make sense to start again. Does it happen sure but it isn't just cleaning your body of this stuff and then going out into the same situation you were before you make the commitment to get clean. You are armed mentally with the knowledge of the reasons you took in the first place. That information is with you from then on and can be recalled at anytime. But you have to have a support group and to be honest you have to make a break with the people you hung with getting high. You have to make new friends, clean sober ones. I am not saying it’s easy nor am I saying it is for everyone.

I am totally ripped however that this drug is available everywhere in the world except the US, Belize and one other place that escapes me. I have talked with my senators and my lone house member and asked them why can't we take the thousands of the people that we have on long term Methadone treatment that have already made the decision to stay clean and let them have access to this medicine. We spend billions on this "war on drugs" that will never be won because until we find a way to get people to stop using this stuff there will always be someone willing to sell it. I can't even get them to have a rational discussion about it. It strikes me that if this drug could be shown thru certified clinical testing that it works then it is by far the cheaper alternative then either letting addicts loose on the streets where they will do whatever needs to be done to support the habit or putting them on long term methadone programs.

So I will agree with you that a lot of people can't afford it and that some will relapse. But EVERYONE that takes it has a 3to 6 or more week window to get the help they need. All the receptors in your body that are looking for drugs have been filled and the desire is gone. In most cases it has been a VERY long time since these people have not had a gnawing in the pit of their stomach reminding them that need to go find their next fix. That is a pretty powerful memory and goes a long way in keeping people off.

There have been several attempts to make this drug in the lab. The problem is that what they make synthetically does not act the same way as it metabolizes thru your system. The psychological aspect of this drug is what sets it apart from other drugs that lessen the severity of withdrawal.
It needs to be de-classed or at least put on a schedule

[newyorkgal]

What an interesting story. There was one other poster who went to Mexico and it worked very well for her. She was a long term addict. I am probably the longest term addict on this forum - 10 years heroin, 33 years methadone, 2 years sub. I would love the opportunity to try it though, in honesty, the psychedelic aspect of it is scary. What about if you start thinking about horrible things from the past? Can you get past it? I'm just curious as I don't have the money to do it, nor would I have any idea how to do it, and it would just scare me too much at my age (60). But I must say, your story is very compelling.

[ARTIST658]

Dodgy? I agree! I was addicted to opiates many years ago - and even when I was an active addict, I had a great fear of hallucinogens. Still do! The very idea of taking a drug (even under doctor's supervision) and going through up to 3 days of hallucinations... just horrifies me! Thank you, but I appreciate what is left of my "gray matter" too much to do so.

To top it off, when the supervising doctor is from another country (Mexico), where their medical care has often been questionable in the eyes of U.S. licensing standards, makes it that much more frightful to me.

I can not possibly imagine that any "trip" via a hallucinogen would translate into any lasting "lesson" that would have kept me from future drug use. All the powerful memories of the (very real!!!) horrors I actually experienced as a drug addict can not keep me (or anyone) safe from relapse. Memory simply isn't a lasting, powerful tool to do so. Even my 6 months of in-patient treatment and years of counseling (exploring my past, to determine why I used, etc.) would not guarantee enough of an education to keep anyone "safe" from returning to the drugs. "Lessons" and "memories" are simply not something addiction responds to on any consistent, lasting basis.

Detoxing off opiates is a very unpleasant ordeal, but it's not intolerable, by any means. Physical withdrawal is basically over in less than a week. (You've written somewhere that it was a month long - that is not true.) However, the physical withdrawal is not even half the battle with addiction. As Cheeky mentioned, it's the "staying stopped" that is the real challenge.

Addicts don't like things that take time. Addicts prefer a "quick fix" - like popping a pill. A large part of recovery is about emotionally maturing... and accepting that life offers very few quick fixes. Things worth having are worth working for. We have to learn patience and tolerance - and it's healthy to start recognizing that many times in life, it is 'short term pain for long term gain.'

I work in the field of substance abuse, Stevie - in a long-term treatment facility. It's a long road back to a healthy, happy sober life after years of drug addiction. There is much to learn about coping with life without a drug to get us through. There's no quick way through that journey. I am exceedingly distrustful when I hear another "easy out" method. I've heard of many, and none seem to last beyond their initial excitement period - they simply can't live up to their claims.

If a person has as much as $10,000 by the time they hit bottom, it's rare! But if they did, putting that money into going for long-term treatment would prove to be a better investment in the long run. I'll continue to pester my government officials for greater access to treatment for addiction - as you continue to pester yours for use of this african tree bark... :wink:

God bless,
Ruth

[Lil Stevie]

What an interesting story. There was one other poster who went to Mexico and it worked very well for her. She was a long term addict. I am probably the longest term addict on this forum - 10 years heroin, 33 years methadone, 2 years sub. I would love the opportunity to try it though, in honesty, the psychedelic aspect of it is scary. What about if you start thinking about horrible things from the past? Can you get past it? I'm just curious as I don't have the money to do it, nor would I have any idea how to do it, and it would just scare me too much at my age (60). But I must say, your story is very compelling.

Hi, Thanks folr replying. I am very iproud of you for staying clean this long. It does go to my point that the methadone people would be a great group to start testing of this drug you have decided that you had to make changes in your lifestyle if you were going to survive.
I was a little worried about the whole experience myself but as it was explained and came to be , when the life review starts you are in complete control. If you find yourself in a bad or wierd or scarry place you just open your eves if they are closed or close them if they are open. That resets the movie in your head and you move forward. (FYI this is also true of most all psychedelics, wish I had known that back in the 60's!!) As I was trying to explain earlier this is I think why this drug has the success that it does. There are several places where you can go and rapid detox but there isn't anything like this that gets to the root of the whole reason you feel the need to get high. That way when you go back home and get into a support group you are armed with the knowledge that you can rely on to keep you off the junk forever. This is a addiction interuptor thats all.
As to the cost , I understand it is out of the reach of a lot of the addicts, but less than one might think. Again the extended family you belong to might just have some resources that they would pony up with some sort of contractual agreement between you and the source of the funds. I know you the first responce is that "I have burned any chance I have of having my family trust me" . That may or may not be true but I can guess that you have never gone to anyone with a plan that included Ibogaine as part of your recovery.
I wish you the best on your journey and all I ask is that people do some research and when you see how lives can be changed and good people can become productive again except for the fact that this country has it's head so far up it's A*#@ that it can not see the forest from the trees. Get mad, start pushing back and if enough noise is made there is the possibility that we could get the law changed. If that happened it would become more available and quite honestly a whole bunch more affordable. I do not know how much the state pays to keep one person on Methadone for a year but I would bet it would be far less expensive and so much better for the patient to get them off all narcotics instead of switching one for another.
Can I ask you a question? did you switch from meth to sub in an attempt to get off completly? How is it working for you?
Thanks again for your interest. If you go and tell some more people about this drug and they tell some more people it could happen that one day soon there will be a clinic in your town to get clean and sober once and for all.

[Lil Stevie]

Dodgy? I agree! I was addicted to opiates many years ago - and even when I was an active addict, I had a great fear of hallucinogens. Still do! The very idea of taking a drug (even under doctor's supervision) and going through up to 3 days of hallucinations... just horrifies me! Thank you, but I appreciate what is left of my "gray matter" too much to do so.

To top it off, when the supervising doctor is from another country (Mexico), where their medical care has often been questionable in the eyes of U.S. licensing standards, makes it that much more frightful to me.

I can not possibly imagine that any "trip" via a hallucinogen would translate into any lasting "lesson" that would have kept me from future drug use. All the powerful memories of the (very real!!!) horrors I actually experienced as a drug addict can not keep me (or anyone) safe from relapse. Memory simply isn't a lasting, powerful tool to do so. Even my 6 months of in-patient treatment and years of counseling (exploring my past, to determine why I used, etc.) would not guarantee enough of an education to keep anyone "safe" from returning to the drugs. "Lessons" and "memories" are simply not something addiction responds to on any consistent, lasting basis.

Detoxing off opiates is a very unpleasant ordeal, but it's not intolerable, by any means. Physical withdrawal is basically over in less than a week. (You've written somewhere that it was a month long - that is not true.) However, the physical withdrawal is not even half the battle with addiction. As Cheeky mentioned, it's the "staying stopped" that is the real challenge.

Addicts don't like things that take time. Addicts prefer a "quick fix" - like popping a pill. A large part of recovery is about emotionally maturing... and accepting that life offers very few quick fixes. Things worth having are worth working for. We have to learn patience and tolerance - and it's healthy to start recognizing that many times in life, it is 'short term pain for long term gain.'

I work in the field of substance abuse, Stevie - in a long-term treatment facility. It's a long road back to a healthy, happy sober life after years of drug addiction. There is much to learn about coping with life without a drug to get us through. There's no quick way through that journey. I am exceedingly distrustful when I hear another "easy out" method. I've heard of many, and none seem to last beyond their initial excitement period - they simply can't live up to their claims.

If a person has as much as $10,000 by the time they hit bottom, it's rare! But if they did, putting that money into going for long-term treatment would prove to be a better investment in the long run. I'll continue to pester my government officials for greater access to treatment for addiction - as you continue to pester yours for use of this african tree bark... :wink:

God bless,
Ruth

Thank you for your reply. As I said there are people that think a person must suffer thru the pangs of withdrawal. Some feel it is punishment for what I don't know, some feel that it will leave a mark on you as an assist to stay away from drugs. Personally I don't need to go thru childbirth to know that it hurts like hell and that I am glad I am a man I don't buy that argument but you are not the only person that expresses it. It would be a very boring place if we all agreed on everything.

I have a great fear of heights but if someone told me there was a box full of money on the top of the Empire state building, you better believe I would set my fears aside and start climbing!!

The hallucinogens can last from 3 to 18 hours, usually 4 to 6. As I said if you are in a place you don't want to be you reset the film by opening your eyes if they are closed and closing them if they are open. All I can say is that it is just like watching a movie that happens to be about you. Strange as it sounds but I had two guides that were with me all the time I was tripping. They talked to me just like any conversation one would have. They helped me to understand some of the stuff I was seeing. Even stranger is the fact that (I use Ibogaine to reset my tolerances so I have had several sessions) the same guides that were there the first time were there to welcome me back the next time I took it.

There are several major clinics in the states that are trying to modify this medicine so that you get just the nor-Ibogaine part. That is the stuff that plugs up the receptors in your body. The idea being that you would receive the benefits without going thru the life review and reflection. There is plenty of evidence that the success rate doing it that way is no better than the rapid detox centers. Not very good! It is the whole experience that makes this drug work the way it does. It is not for everyone, of course not any more than anything else works for everyone.

There are clinics all over the world that dispense this medicine. If someone thought for instance that the training a doctor gets in Mexico didn't suit them then they could go to Canada or most any country in Europe. Not that it matters but the Doctor I saw there was born in Mexico and went to school in America. I have been seen by too many doctors to count because of my medical condition and he had one of the best bedside manors of any of them.

As you said you had 6 months of in-house and years of counseling to find out and come to grips with what happened to you that ended up turning your life into a struggle to just stay alive. That’s fine and I would hope that anyone that is/has been addicted get help and have a strong support system. Nothing about taking Ibogaine changes that. However I would suggest that your 6 months in -patient cost a hell of a lot more than a one session with Ibogaine and then continuing therapy.

Nothing will "Keep" you away from future drug use but you. All I can tell you is what I have seen with my own eyes and my own experiences. It is a sin as far as I am concerned that we keep people strung out on Methadone for 10, 20, 30 or more years when some portion of them could actually have a life where they could just get up one morning and go to the mountains for a few weeks. You have said you are in the substance abuse field (thank you very much for deciding to help that way as God knows you didn't go there for the pay) so you know that there are all kinds of addicts. There are plenty of addicts that go to work every day (other than dope sick days) and their outward appearances look fine. Those are some of the people that this drug could help. Will it help the junkie that is on the streets and shooting up 6 times a day, lives by hand to mouth, not as much so, although I have seen it happen.

As you know there is no such thing as a magic cure and this drug certainly isn’t one. But to just dismiss it out of hand is IMHO very shortsighted and not fair to the people that it could rescue, but for the fact that it is against the law.

One of the main reasons this drug is not available is that it is a naturally occurring substance (as you say an African tree bark) so big Pharma can't lock it up with a patent. I am sure you are not against using natural products for cures, we all have been using them for years so whether it comes from a spinney fish or a green plant or a root of a tree doesn't make the slightest difference and to some people natural cures are better than ingesting some of the stuff that comes out of big Pharma

I enjoy hearing your thoughts, I think this country needs to make a wholesale change in the way we are fighting this "war on drugs" We spend billions, we put people in jail and destroy their lives and there has been no certifiable results. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result. I am all for more treatment centers but until we find a way to stop people from wanting to use drugs there will always be someone to supply them.
Steve

One last thing as I notice you say you are distrustful of the easy way out and that you have never seen one work past it's initial excitement hype. Well people have been using this drug as an addiction interuptor since the late 70's. We are way past "initial excitment" there are thousands of sucess stories out there. Sadly this drug won't put long term facilities like yours out of business but it might allow you to focus your precious resourses into those people that need it. With any luck some people that would end up in your facilty could avoid it altogether which would free up your beds and your energys for those hard cases.
God Bless back at ya

[newyorkgal]

Stevie, I will be glad to answer your question and will answer it honestly. As I stated above, I was a heroin addict from my teens to mid 20's. Methadone was all the rage and the great hope for curing opiate addiction. I got on a program in the 70's where you were never ever encouraged to attempt to get off and stupidly, time just passed. I can't blame them. I should have been pro-active but wasn't. Just like methadone was touted as the "wonder drug" back then, I read about suboxone 2 years ago and the idea that you could go to a private doctor as opposed to a clinic appealed to me (even though I was only going once every 2 weeks and was on a relative low dose, 25 mgs.). YES, I made the switch with the thought that I would be able to wean off and become totally opiate free. I managed to get down to .5 with no problem but everytime I try the .25 or even .33, it's a no go. The restless legs and arms and inability to sleep are too much for me. I am now in a bind for two reasons. One is that sub binds sooo tightly to the brain receptors that it is near impossible for pain meds to work. At almost 61 years of a ge with 3 major surgeries under my belt, that's a scary thought. Two is that if I can't quit this and don't want to stay on it, my alternative is another opiate which is something I don't want. So, there is a very long answer to your short question lol. How is it working out for me? Not great unless I accept the need for replacement therapy forever. I personally believe that if you don't taper off sub really quickly (around 21 days), you're risking an addiction equal to that of methadone. And 21 days or so just might not be long enough to ward off relapse. So, the good thing is I don't do other drugs. The bad thing is I'm addicted heavily to sub.
Also, you mentioned rapid detox. I wouldn't attempt that if they gave it away for free. I've seen too many long time addicts try it and end up near death. But the ibogaine has intrigued me since I became friends with the poster (who rarely posts anymore). Her story was very similar to yours. And I agree. No treatment method should be dismissed out of hand. Everyone is different and what works for one might not work for another. Some can w/d with minimal effect. Some find it unbearable. The world is made up of people with differences so I certainly don't dismiss your story. I agree it's big pharm (evil) stopping ibogaine in America. Just as they are advocating high dose and long term sub use (money money money)....The war on drugs has been one big flop so they should be open to ANYTHING that might work.

[sisterwin2]

Please Ruth... dont fool yourself. Our goverment does know this root Ibogaine. They have studied it. Funded the money for awhile till the lobbyist won the fight for the pharm companies....

Dr Nash is an american MD who got so fed up she went to the Caribbean to finish her studies... did over 800 detoxes and not one death. So... it works. Bill W. himself admitted he did hallucgins and felt it helped him... I dont think it was Ibogain but LSD. Read about it. I do understand the fear.. I had it. Once I ingested a small amount they call the tester dose.. I calmed and just let it rid. Never once did I feel out of control or not totally lucid. I came out the other side without an active addiction and time to get grounded. Still the same person so not a cure. I had to learn/learning daily how to live clean..... but didnt have to fight to stay clean. Never took my choice away, just filled those receptors to make life easier for a while.... also reset my receptors. Dont have that "something missing" or "hungry" feeling.

I just wish folk would stop feeling like you have to suffer for weeks or months to learn. WD never kept me clean... did it too many times. Also been thru three rehabs... rehabs in the states have very poor % rate... unless they now feel one is clean on suboxone. Many of them do. I have met those go 30 days in the whole and put on sub right before they leave... what ashame.

Well.... I didnt mean to rant. I guess I just did. I am just so sick of our goverment. I know a MD (not Mexico) that has a thirty day rehab... he begans that thirty days with a flood of ibogain. It not legal only in third world countrys... do the research.