[momofsons]

my son and his girlfriend, the ones who are detoxing here at my house. haven't had heroin since last friday, but took some percs on monday and tuesday, just convinced me to let them go to her mother's house to get some fresh clothes. Did I make a mistake and let my son talk me into something that he will regret? Help please,

[money_chick]

It would be best to keepo them in your sight. i've never had a herion problem, but if I were in detox and could leave and find pills, I would.

If they come back and have used, just let it go this time. tell them you would rather they stay where you can keep an eye out for them, get back on program.

Its not unusual for a h user to score duriing detox and then start wd all over again.

Hang in there.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by momofsons

my son and his girlfriend, the ones who are detoxing here at my house. haven't had heroin since last friday, but took some percs on monday and tuesday, just convinced me to let them go to her mother's house to get some fresh clothes. Did I make a mistake and let my son talk me into something that he will regret? Help please,

If the kids were well enough to go pick up fresh clothes they were not sick enough to have to have any percocets. When I have gone through detox I could have not cared any less whether or not I was even wearing any clothes. It sounds to me like they just wanted some percs.

I'm not saying that this will mean certain doom for them. But I wouldn't let my kids lay around the house detoxing from junk and allow them to make a run for percs. Thats just me.

I have said before that I think it's great for you to be there helping them like you are. But don't allow them to make you feel more sorry for them than you already do. They need to own the decisions they made to do the drugs to start with and now they have to pay the price. They should be grateful for having you there helping them. Don't let them take advantage of you. Hang in there.

[money_chick]

You know, after reading roberts post I'm thinking.

When I w/d I couldnt care less about clean clothes. I mean seriously, I certainly wouldnt leave my house for any reason other than drugs.

What symptoms are they having? I've helped friends kick h before, and they were terribly ill, much sicker than I get off pills. We're talking bad stomache issues, very large pupils, shaking sweating and restlessness.

They should be very uncomfortable by now, or were they sicker a few days ago and seem better?

I don't want to over step my bounds, but keep a close eye in this. Junk users are really known to 'chip' - clean up a little for a few days and then get high to catch the intense rush you get going from sick to well.

I just hate to see you worried sick and being... well... manipulated.

I hope I haven't offended you, I just want to help.

[sisterwin2]

Mom..
I have to agree with Rob.... if they can get up or even worried about clean cloths something is up.

I take back giving them any percoset, they dont need them or they are already abuseing them.

Mom, you can only do so much and you have done that. You waited on them, I am sure, hand and foot while they were sick. They are fine now.

While in detox I only cared about having a dry tee shirt to soak up the water that poured from my body... I even wore the same three... I just let them dry. I could not drive, bearly get out of bed. They are done detox or not in detox... hate to say but the ladder is prob true. I am not there so I could very well be wrong also. I think after these last few post you know in your heart.

There is only so much responsiblilty you can take for a teenage/early twenty yrs old kids. You can not watch them 24/7 once they are mobil. So you have to let go and let God at this point. Dont let them take advantage of you.... I have to say I hope they did get a taste of real detox.. it might help wake them up to what they are doing.
Keep posting and ask anything... someone will answer. Its a great forum for knowledge of addiction.

Sister

[momofsons]

thanks, not offended at all, actually i am feeling a little manipulated which is why i instantly got on here to ask. The more I read on here the more I feel manipulated by them. First of all, I have always been a caver when it comes to my boys, and they know that, which is why i am really feeling bad right now. at this point i'm not even sure if they have told any truths. they said that they had been using for about a year, and all i know is it is everyday, so supposedly last friday was the last time they used heroin, and then they got the percs on monday and tuesday. so i'm not sure how they should be feeling today. they both seem very antsy and jittery, but yesterday they both ate pretty good, today not so much though, i bought the gatorade and they have been drinking that. i haven't seen them vomit or have the poops yet. so i've really been wondering what was going on. my son is on probation, and was going to a methadone clinic for about 4 months, she was to young to go. so quit going and they started using again. well now it's almost time for his next probation appt. and he lost his job and doesn't have any money for the clinic. perhaps that's why they came to us. anyway if he violates not only will he go to jail but his conviction will become a felony. he says that he doesn't want that to happen. i don't believe that they wanted to go get clothes i believe that they used that as an excuse, but the deal i made with them was that if they used again they were out of here. the only reason the girlfriend is here is because my son wouldn't come without her. we were going to try this ct withdrawl first and then have methadone be a last resort, since he's already gone that route he's sorta familiar with it. i guess it's hard to believe that your son would lie to you. and he did that song and dance that he hates that we don't trust him and wants to prove that we can, and he has an appointment for some outpatient counseling next week, that was suggested by his po, and he doesn't want to use anymore. but after everything i've read on here it just doesn't seem that it could be that simple. and being new to all of this and really neive all of my life, i just thought that well i can't lock him up forever and if he wants to use he will. I just don't know what to do. I don't know how to play this, please be very frank with me and tell me how this could play out. They are supposed to be back by a certain time so i can take them to an na meeting tonight near our home. One more thing how can I know if they are on anything? THANKS!!!

[momofsons]

you guys really are great. you know the more i read the more i'm certain they are not even close to detoxing, i haven't seen them sweat or anything like that the bed clothes aren't wet or anything, his pupils are giant and they took some pepto this am but they have been up and about all day outside walking and smoking cigs and such. sounds like i am being played big time

[cantseem2stop]

I think you might be right. I bleive that their intentiaons weer well, but I have found that when you fall off, your mind tells you that since you fell, you might a well keep falling. I would stick with them for a day and really observe how they act

[Robert_325]

mom ...

You know what is going on deep in your heart. I was hoping at first that this wouldn't be the case and they were sincere in what they were doing. But I PROMISE you .. if they are out playing and running around and eating, etc then they aren't even detoxing. They are using.

I know for sure that with the number of days this has gone on they should be dead in the middle of BAD detox right now. If they aren't showing any symptoms then they aren't in detox. It's very simple. Don't listen to any nonsense. Insist they do this right or hit the road. You have bent over backwards trying to help. Help can become enabling eventually. Don't allow yourself to go there. As much as you love your kids you aren't doing them any favors allowing this to go on.

You want to know how this could play out??? What can happen is if they don't get it together they will end up in jail, an institution or dead. Those are not very pleasant choices I realize. But if you allow this to progress further then ... well lets just say don't do that. I don't know if I would throw them out tonight with everything that is at stake, but I would make SURE they know that you aren't in the dark about this anymore. You are not going to tolerate being lied to when you are the one sticking your neck out trying to help them.

As far as being able to knock them off being high ... you know your kids. I don't. But if they are straight then they should be showing w/d symptoms. NO way they can act normal going through the detox. You should be concerned if they are okay. Seriously if they act normal then you have a problem here. Make sense???

Let us know how things progress. You have your hands full and I am not envious at all. I have a Bible study group tonight at my home. We will include your family in our prayers. God bless.

[momofsons]

thank you for your prayers i'll be saying a few of my own tonight

[sisterwin2]

Mom....
I am so sorry your going thru this.... your special.

May I make a suggestion to just confront them. Ask them "why are you not sick, I want to see your arms". I might even go as far as going to CVS and buying a few drug test. If they are not using... at this time the H may be out of thier system and it should come up clean...... if not by saturday for sure. They will come up dirty for hydocondone since it was tuesday since they took one. I dont know you fianacial situation but you could ask the pharmacist for a five panel screen.. I know they are not very expensive or ask the pharm. if he has a specific test for H. This will wake them up and maybe assist with them coming "clean" to you.

Like Rob said.... you do not want to play the role of a enabler. All this is just a suggestion, you know your son better then I..... the girlfriend??? well.... If she gives you ******************** get her out... you have your own family to deal with.

Good luck,
I will pray for you also,
Sister

[bev49]

I was on heroin addict. I can say with almost certainty that they weren't going for "clean clothes". Of course, I don't know them so I can't promise you that but I can come pretty close. Why not have the g/f's parents bring them the clothes. If they were feeling that sickly, they wouldnt care about the close. When I was a heroin addict, still living home with my parents in the beginning of my run, I would come up with any excuse in the book to get some money, get out of the house, go cop. I don't know if detoxing in your house is such a good idea to begin with, especially since there are 2 of them. I have had relationships with other addicts and the problem with that is this: When one is feeling strong, the other one may not be and its not too difficult to convince the "strong" once to fall. They need some kind of treatment above and beyond staying at your house, wether it be N/A, suboxone, methadone, outpatient detox, inpatient detox or whatever. Ive been there and done that. Best of luck with the kids.

[bev49]

To add to my last message, I "detoxed" in my parents house time and time again. I put the quote on that word because I never went past day 2 or maybe 3 and by then I was oh so sick. I had to laugh when I read you line about the song and dance about you not trusting him. I remember giving my mom that fake offended look and telling her I could not believe she didn't believe me. I loved my parents alot (Reast in Peace, Mom and Dad) but I loved heroin more I'm sad to say. Most addicts feel the same. My parents were major enablers. They wanted to believe me so badly. They didn't want me in the street or jail, or worst of all, dead. It seems you might be an enabler as well. In the long run, you do more harm then good. I know you mean well and you sound like a wonderful, loving mom but they say you gotta hit rock bottom before you can pull yourself up. You are not responsible for their actions and in the end all you can do is pray rock bottom isn't too bad and they see the light. I swear I can see myself in your bedroom. I've been there so many times. Please get back to me with any questions or concerns, mom.

[money_chick]

I have a feeling they arent chipping h. I think what they ARE doing is taking pain killers, probably high mg percs to try and keep withdrawl at bay. If they have large pupils, they arent high on the junk, thats pretty sure. BUT... having gone through this I know pers wont hold an h addict for long and will only mask some symptoms. Usually it will rid them of the insomnia and diahrrea. So.. I would make my experienced guess that thats what happening. If they come back more relaxed, hungry or sleepy you'll know. Oh and look for those tiny pupils.
Where they shooting up the drugs, or smoking it? You cant always look ffor track marks, we know that. But many people dont realize if they are smoking it they may have a slight vinegar smell to them when they return. Most dope Ive been around smells like that.

Also, look at their fingertips as casually as you can. If they come in and wash their hands I'd be a little suspicious... I dont know how common black tar is where you aare (did you tell me and I missed that?) but black tar often leaves a slight dark stain on fingertips from users trying the work the drug into smokable form.

I dont know if I would just put them out, so I differ on everyone else opinion. I might sleep on it- not for them, but for you to take time to gather your thoughts and make the decision that you feel comfortable with.

There is someone here that was a user of herion who may can help you more.

Youre in my thoughts.

[money_chick]

Bev- I KNEW you'd be here soon!

[h8mylife]

momofsons:
I really want to give you a great big hug. everyone here is superb! This may be something you have already thought of - but.. while the son&girlfriend were in your home- did you make sure your money -of any kind- and your meds were hidden? check books are a danger - make sure to check the middle of the book- not just the front of it. my husband would tear out the middle checks so I wouldn't notice until it was too late. Just a thought. HANG in there. It is very hard to think the worse of those we love with our very being-- but I hurt for you that you have been `played like a well tuned fiddle'. Been there! and it is quite painful. Praying tons for you. keep reading these posts! God Bless! -h8

[sisterwin2]

very good point....

I sure hate being a addict.

[bev49]

LOL, moneychick... I knew you would be here too! And Sister too... There are certain threads tailor made for people like us. Mom, do not feel like a fool. You love your son, you want to believe him. It's natural and normal. One of my biggest problems with this situation is that it is the two of them. I realize he wants to be with her. But it is hard enough for one person to stop using heroin. Ten times harder when someone else is there feeling sick at the same time. One will always be trying to bring the other down I'm afraid. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. But from personal experience, this is what I see happening. I'm praying for the best though.

[momofsons]

thank you all, i wonder if you know how helpful this all is. it's getting hard for me to stay away from the computer these past few days, because of the hope and encouragement that i feel when i read all of this advice. i want to share a little background, or maybe i'm just trying to make myself believe he's not lying i'm not sure. anyhoo, they have lived with her mom for the past year, they rarely came around us. and i always wondered why, i guess i just thought that they were boys and that's what boys do. they(both of my sons) tell me that they didn't come around because of the addiction and the shame and embarassment. the reason they are staying here is because we live in a more secluded area than where they were and that being where they lived before would be to hard because that's where they used to use. she has actually never lived here, she stayed the night a time or two, but we didn't allow her to live with us. neither of them have a job at the moment, or any money, and i realize that they have ways of getting the money and that.
i told them that we were afraid that they would steal from us and i have taken some advice on those things like keeping my purse put away and stuff like that. they did get back in time for us to go to the na meeting, and they seemed somewhat impressed by that. i shared with them that after reading all of the info on here that i thought they were lying, they said that they weren't. they said they do feel like ********************, they have drank about a half bottle of pepto, and are eating the heck out of ibuprofen and melatonin, but they have been eating and their pupils aren;t huge, they are the size of mine. and i don't know if this means anything, but as a good faith gesture they brought me what they said was their last syringe that they were saving at her moms place for just in case. so part of me is feeling foolish and part of me is feeling hopeful. Regardless i am really loving all of this help and advice, this is all very overwhelming for me. i have been off work all summer and am about to return, so just sitting here all day is giving way to much time to think and it's driving me crazy, so hopefully going back to work on monday will really help keep me from going crazy. thanks again to all of you for your advice, concerns, and most of all your prayers.

[momofsons]

i just finished rereading my last post and it sounds like a bunch of lame excuses for my son, boy i really am an enabler. i'm kinda feeling like since i just found out about all of this a week or so ago and they have only been here since sunday, not even a week yet that i will give them a little more time. i would never put my son out, well ok i won't say never, but he won't stay without her so i may give them a little more time, in an effort to try and save my son. as i said we did go to an na meeting and they seemed impressed, we're supposed to attend another tomorrow and my son starts an intensive outpatient program next tuesday, so i want to give them a little more time. my hope is to get my son strong enough to see what we are doing for him and then if she tries to pull him down then maybe we can pull him back. they are only 18 and 21, and have only been a couple for a little over a year. so i am hopeful that if push comes to shove that he'll chose his family. i'll keep my fingers crossed

[bev49]

mom, do NOT be hard on yourself. Being an enabler only means you love your son. And your new to this stuff. Give him the benefit of the doubt for now but at the same time, keep your eyes open and be aware. Keep your money safe. Hopefully, the intensive program will help him. If he relapses, you will know in your heart that you did everything in your power to help him. You're just being a loving mom. If not right now, I guarantee you that one day he will realize all you did for him and he will appreciate and love you all the more for it. I say this from experience. I have my fingers crossed that the program works for him.

[Robert_325]

Honestly I would probably give them a little more time too if it were my children. Hate to give up on our own children. God never gave up on me when most everyone else did and neither did my sister and mother. I am so thankful for them today for sticking with me through the very hardest of times. I would have had a much more difficult time without them.

Giving the kids just a little more time should enable you to make an accurate determination as to their true intentions. I still contend that the two of them doing this together is very risky but it's better than neither one of them trying at all. Just be smart and don't provide them access to any of your money, cars, or anything that would enable them to go cop drugs of any kind be it junk or pills. They don't need either.

Giving you the syringe is a difficult action to judge at this time. Only time will tell if they were being honest. I am a very positive person but I would remain guarded at best about accepting what they say while they are heroin addicts. People shooting junk are just not very trustworthy. Stay alert to what is really going on around you at all times.

As far as having to be out of the house where they were using goes I have to say YEAH RIGHT!!! Let me assure you that with me being a real addict during my life, that if you dropped me off on a dirt road in the boondocks where I had never been in my life, if I wanted drugs I would have them by the end of the day at the latest. Changing houses will not keep them from using period. That is what cars are for. Pay close attention to what they are doing.

Keep us posted and continue to ask for help. That is what this forum is here for. We did include your family in our group prayer tonight. Hope it helps.

[bev49]

Lol, Robert. That was pretty funny, your line about being in the boondocks on a dirt road, etc. So very true. Geography never stopped an addict before. When I was a heroin addict, my first husband and I moved from NJ to freaking Witchita, Kansas because he supposedly had a job lined up at a drug free program and we thought getting away from New York would be our salvation. Needless to say, the job didn't pan out and we had a dope connection in Witchita by day 2. All we needed to do is drive through a neighborhood that looked like it had drugs in it, carefully start chatting with people and we were in so I would say moving from one house to another is not that big a deal, sorry mom. Also, syringes are quite easy to come by. Giving up one seems like a might be a bit of a manipulation. Just stay vigilant, mom. Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst.

[Robert_325]

Hi Bev ... I knew that you would reply to that. It's the truth though. If I ever wanted drugs I would find them even if I had to use the force. I could find them anywhere. Even scored in other countries within a day. I know what you mean about Kansas. I moved to goofy Oklahoma in 1984. Took me less than a week to find a new connect. It's really ridiculous. I know people who have moved all over the country to get clean. What a joke. It never works like we think it will. We have to decide to get clean and stick to it. Thats the bottom line.

[bev49]

As I tell my granddaughter, the product of divorce, who everytime she gets in trouble for something, wants to move in with the other parent, you can move your body all over the place but you always take YOU with you.

[Mastachefsteve]

I have to agree with the other users that it is a 'bad' idea for the girlfriend to be there with your son. I am detoxing from oxycodone right now, sweating like mad, diarrhea, and not eating. (ive lost 7 pounds this last week). I know that if my girlfriend was going through the same thing, and she even mentioned taking a pill to help it stop i'd jump all over it. (I know oxycodone has nothing on H) but i'm just saying how I feel about something not even as hard core.

Just remind them there is a light on the other side of the tunnel, it doesn't last forever.

I hope everything goes well for you and your son, and his girlfriend too for that matter.

[momofsons]

thanks as always for the great advice, i will be keeping a close eye on them, they were up alot last night. today is supposed to be one week without h, they say that's the longest they have gone in the past year. i'm just walking around with my fingers crossed and planning to attend a meeting on monday. in the meantime i love reading all of the advice that you special people give everyone on here. keep up the great work, you are heros in my book