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Is coming off Suboxone REALLY that bad?
  1. #1
    turbo_girl is offline Junior Member
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    Arrow Is coming off Suboxone REALLY that bad?

    I have been on Suboxone for 3 years continually. Before that, I used OxyContin for a few years (OC was my doc, but I'd take whatever I could get). The most I used was about 2 80's a day (160mg). But ANYWAY, back to Suboxone. I've been on it for a loooong time... just didn't have the courage to stop. I even posted on here about tapering and tried the taper method, but I was too addicted to the medicine to stick to the plan. I have been on 2 mg per day of Sub for the last ~5 days, and before that, I was taking between 3 and 4 mg per day, and had been at that dose for about a month. I am currently 12 hours away from home... I came to stay with my aunt in New York so I could be sure that I could quit. I am ready to be done, and I knew that if I tried to do this back home, I'd go drug seeking. So, today I took my last 2 mg around 6 am and now I am completely out of Sub. My doctor wrote me for 7 days worth of Clonidine and Valium to take the edge off for when I come off completely. I also have a few Xanax, in case I need help sleeping (although I don't think they'll help that much).

    Basically, my question is... What am I in for? I know what withdrawals feel like, but how long will they last? I came off sub cold turkey once from 4mg a day, and I made it 2 weeks before breaking down and going to a sub doctor. However, looking back, I think most of my issues may have been mental. I have been searching Google on suboxone withdrawals and have read more horror stories than I can count. Is it really going to be that bad? Am I really going to be in withdrawal for 30 days or more? Someone, PLEASE, I am begging for answers. I am going into this no matter what... I am completely out of sub and have no choice but to quit, but I am mostly afraid of the unknown. I just want to know how much time I need to devote to this (I am off work until the 27th of October, but if I absolutely need more time, I will call my boss and tell her I need more time).

    Any help would be sooooo greatly appreciated!!!

  2. #2
    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo_girl View Post
    I have been on Suboxone for 3 years continually. Before that, I used OxyContin for a few years (OC was my doc, but I'd take whatever I could get). The most I used was about 2 80's a day (160mg). But ANYWAY, back to Suboxone. I've been on it for a loooong time... just didn't have the courage to stop. I even posted on here about tapering and tried the taper method, but I was too addicted to the medicine to stick to the plan. I have been on 2 mg per day of Sub for the last ~5 days, and before that, I was taking between 3 and 4 mg per day, and had been at that dose for about a month. I am currently 12 hours away from home... I came to stay with my aunt in New York so I could be sure that I could quit. I am ready to be done, and I knew that if I tried to do this back home, I'd go drug seeking. So, today I took my last 2 mg around 6 am and now I am completely out of Sub. My doctor wrote me for 7 days worth of Clonidine and Valium to take the edge off for when I come off completely. I also have a few Xanax, in case I need help sleeping (although I don't think they'll help that much).

    Basically, my question is... What am I in for? I know what withdrawals feel like, but how long will they last? I came off sub cold turkey once from 4mg a day, and I made it 2 weeks before breaking down and going to a sub doctor. However, looking back, I think most of my issues may have been mental. I have been searching Google on suboxone withdrawals and have read more horror stories than I can count. Is it really going to be that bad? Am I really going to be in withdrawal for 30 days or more? Someone, PLEASE, I am begging for answers. I am going into this no matter what... I am completely out of sub and have no choice but to quit, but I am mostly afraid of the unknown. I just want to know how much time I need to devote to this (I am off work until the 27th of October, but if I absolutely need more time, I will call my boss and tell her I need more time).

    Any help would be sooooo greatly appreciated!!!
    turbo girl ..... You have done a very good job of tapering down to the 2mg of Sub. But as you know that is a very large amount to jump from. To answer your question as to what are you in for, the answer is that I'm not quite sure.

    Not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth. Everyone is so different. What may affect one person, may have no affect on the other. Some people really struggle with the withdrawls from Sub, and some such as myself just practically breeze through it. It really depends on the individuals metabolism, activity level, and general overall health.

    I can tell you one thing for sure is that the person that has a positive attitude through it has a much better chance at success. Believing you will have problems, you most likely will. Believing and if you keep telling yourself that you will not have problems, you most likely will have only minor symptoms. The power of the mind is amazing.

    Try not to read the horror stories, instead try to read all of the success stories on this forum alone. There are hundreds, if not even thoudands. Google The Thomas Recipe to help with withdrawls. Lots of vitamins, minerals, and supplements to help. you probably won't need the Benzo's that are suggested so just ignore them for now. And exercise as much as possible depending on your physical condition. Walking is great. Maybe a bike ride or a swim. Anything to get your natural endorphines firing back up.

    Read the thread titled "Suboxone/Subutex Half-Life...The Long Road". It will explain some of the things that you may want to know. It's in the Suboxone Section here.

    And if you can try to get some Magnesium Oxide and Magnesium Citrate. Try to get 200mg tablets of the Citrate, and 400mg tablets of the Oxide. Take 1 of each twice per day. This WILL produce Diarrhea. That will get the Sub out of your system much quicker. Opiates build up in the system and are released by our bowl movements. That is why when we use Narcotics and other Opiates we usually get ourselves Constipated. Oxide and Citrate will both help you so much in my opinion.

    Now please understand That I am NOT a doctor and you should consult one BEFORE you start using the Magnesium. Especially if you are Pregnant or Nursing. This is always a good idea.

    I wish you the very best of luck in your situation. and if you don't mind I would like to say a Prayer for you as well. I believe that with Faith in The Lord, All things are Possible. Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny

  3. #3
    turbo_girl is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny_D View Post
    turbo girl ..... You have done a very good job of tapering down to the 2mg of Sub. But as you know that is a very large amount to jump from. To answer your question as to what are you in for, the answer is that I'm not quite sure.

    Not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth. Everyone is so different. What may affect one person, may have no affect on the other. Some people really struggle with the withdrawls from Sub, and some such as myself just practically breeze through it. It really depends on the individuals metabolism, activity level, and general overall health.

    I can tell you one thing for sure is that the person that has a positive attitude through it has a much better chance at success. Believing you will have problems, you most likely will. Believing and if you keep telling yourself that you will not have problems, you most likely will have only minor symptoms. The power of the mind is amazing.

    Try not to read the horror stories, instead try to read all of the success stories on this forum alone. There are hundreds, if not even thoudands. Google The Thomas Recipe to help with withdrawls. Lots of vitamins, minerals, and supplements to help. you probably won't need the Benzo's that are suggested so just ignore them for now. And exercise as much as possible depending on your physical condition. Walking is great. Maybe a bike ride or a swim. Anything to get your natural endorphines firing back up.

    Read the thread titled "Suboxone/Subutex Half-Life...The Long Road". It will explain some of the things that you may want to know. It's in the Suboxone Section here.

    And if you can try to get some Magnesium Oxide and Magnesium Citrate. Try to get 200mg tablets of the Citrate, and 400mg tablets of the Oxide. Take 1 of each twice per day. This WILL produce Diarrhea. That will get the Sub out of your system much quicker. Opiates build up in the system and are released by our bowl movements. That is why when we use Narcotics and other Opiates we usually get ourselves Constipated. Oxide and Citrate will both help you so much in my opinion.

    Now please understand That I am NOT a doctor and you should consult one BEFORE you start using the Magnesium. Especially if you are Pregnant or Nursing. This is always a good idea.

    I wish you the very best of luck in your situation. and if you don't mind I would like to say a Prayer for you as well. I believe that with Faith in The Lord, All things are Possible. Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny
    I do not mind the prayers at all. I welcome them with open arms. Thank you SO MUCH for your reply. I have seen the Thomas recipe before. I bought Magnesium tablets today, but I didn't know there were different kinds. I'm checking them now.... the main ingredient is Magnesium Oxide, so I'm guessing that's what I got. Do I have to have both? Oh, and the Oxide says it's 250 mg. Should I take more than 1? I got Imodium like the Thomas Recipe said. It seems like you're saying that diarrhea is a good thing in this situation, so should I bother with the Imodium? Also, when would be a good time to start taking the Clonidine? Whenever I feel like I need it? Sorry to ask so many questions; I know you said you aren't a doctor and I still need to go check out that forum that you talked about. I will do that now.

    I was looking online at some quotes earlier and found a couple that really spoke to me. Here they are:

    He who fears to suffer, suffers from fear.
    - This one spoke to me because I realized that the reason I was feeling so badly was because I was AFRAID. Simple as that. The fear I felt was crippling me. Like they always say... there is nothing to fear but fear itself.

    Confront the dark parts of yourself, and work to banish them with illumination and forgiveness. Your willingness to wrestle with your demons will cause your angels to sing. Use the pain as fuel, as a reminder of your strength.
    -This one speaks for itself. Beautiful.

    Thank you so much for your help, Denny. And to anyone else who'd like to add their views, I'd love to hear your thoughts. :-)

  4. #4
    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo_girl View Post
    I do not mind the prayers at all. I welcome them with open arms. Thank you SO MUCH for your reply. I have seen the Thomas recipe before. I bought Magnesium tablets today, but I didn't know there were different kinds. I'm checking them now.... the main ingredient is Magnesium Oxide, so I'm guessing that's what I got. Do I have to have both? Oh, and the Oxide says it's 250 mg. Should I take more than 1? I got Imodium like the Thomas Recipe said. It seems like you're saying that diarrhea is a good thing in this situation, so should I bother with the Imodium? Also, when would be a good time to start taking the Clonidine? Whenever I feel like I need it? Sorry to ask so many questions; I know you said you aren't a doctor and I still need to go check out that forum that you talked about. I will do that now.

    I was looking online at some quotes earlier and found a couple that really spoke to me. Here they are:

    He who fears to suffer, suffers from fear.
    - This one spoke to me because I realized that the reason I was feeling so badly was because I was AFRAID. Simple as that. The fear I felt was crippling me. Like they always say... there is nothing to fear but fear itself.

    Confront the dark parts of yourself, and work to banish them with illumination and forgiveness. Your willingness to wrestle with your demons will cause your angels to sing. Use the pain as fuel, as a reminder of your strength.
    -This one speaks for itself. Beautiful.

    Thank you so much for your help, Denny. And to anyone else who'd like to add their views, I'd love to hear your thoughts. :-)
    Take the Clonidine carefully as It is a blood pressure med. It lowers your pressure and helps with withdrawls. It works quickly and lasts a short time. Just be careful with it. I WOULD NOT suggest that you take it everytime you feel you need it. Ask your Doctor please!

    You need both the Magnesium Oxide and Citrate. The 250 mg's is ok. You take 1 tablet of each, 2 times per day. Immodium is opiate-based and will actually add to the constipation problems. Do not use it.

    The way it works is, when you have the Diarrhea, the faster the opiates are leaving your system, and the less withdrawls you will have. This is the theory anyway. I believe this is what helped me to have very minimal symptoms. Please remember that this is ONLY my opinion!

    Of course you need to stay hydrated with liquids such as the Gatorades and such because of the Electrolytes in them. Too much diarrhea can make you Dehydrated. You don't want that.

    Please once again, contact your doctor to make sure how often you should take the Clonidine, and if it's ok for you to take the Magnesium. Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny

  5. #5
    lady from T.O. is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny_D View Post
    turbo girl ..... You have done a very good job of tapering down to the 2mg of Sub. But as you know that is a very large amount to jump from. To answer your question as to what are you in for, the answer is that I'm not quite sure.

    Not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth. Everyone is so different. What may affect one person, may have no affect on the other. Some people really struggle with the withdrawls from Sub, and some such as myself just practically breeze through it. It really depends on the individuals metabolism, activity level, and general overall health.

    I can tell you one thing for sure is that the person that has a positive attitude through it has a much better chance at success. Believing you will have problems, you most likely will. Believing and if you keep telling yourself that you will not have problems, you most likely will have only minor symptoms. The power of the mind is amazing.

    Try not to read the horror stories, instead try to read all of the success stories on this forum alone. There are hundreds, if not even thoudands. Google The Thomas Recipe to help with withdrawls. Lots of vitamins, minerals, and supplements to help. you probably won't need the Benzo's that are suggested so just ignore them for now. And exercise as much as possible depending on your physical condition. Walking is great. Maybe a bike ride or a swim. Anything to get your natural endorphines firing back up.

    Read the thread titled "Suboxone/Subutex Half-Life...The Long Road". It will explain some of the things that you may want to know. It's in the Suboxone Section here.

    And if you can try to get some Magnesium Oxide and Magnesium Citrate. Try to get 200mg tablets of the Citrate, and 400mg tablets of the Oxide. Take 1 of each twice per day. This WILL produce Diarrhea. That will get the Sub out of your system much quicker. Opiates build up in the system and are released by our bowl movements. That is why when we use Narcotics and other Opiates we usually get ourselves Constipated. Oxide and Citrate will both help you so much in my opinion.

    Now please understand That I am NOT a doctor and you should consult one BEFORE you start using the Magnesium. Especially if you are Pregnant or Nursing. This is always a good idea.

    I wish you the very best of luck in your situation. and if you don't mind I would like to say a Prayer for you as well. I believe that with Faith in The Lord, All things are Possible. Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny
    I'm just at the beginning of my sub treatment-well a month into it. I am on 18mg/daily. This was first dose to take away, for the most part, the awful cravings.
    I digress:
    In Canada, sub. comes in two (2) doses. Eight (8) and two (2) mg., of course. Presently, I take these in front of druggist.
    How does one break down a 2mg. pill? There so small as it is. And how, with such a small pill would you know if you dosing yourself evenly everyday? I hear people go down to .25mg. I guess that 1/4 of a 2mg pill. There about, I'm not doing the math in my head right now.
    HOW IS THAT DONE??, REALLY?
    Would someone respond, I am curious

    thanks

  6. #6
    turbo_girl is offline Junior Member
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    lady from TO, I was on the Suboxone film. It was a little strip that resembled a Listerine strip. Breaking it up into even doses was easy as pie. You fold it in half once for 4 mg. Then, cut that and fold it in half again= 2 mg. Fold that in half and cut = 1 mg. You can go on and on until you get the dose you want. Yes, I realize now that 2 mg was too much to jump from, but wellllll I have no choice. I left the rest of my meds back home in Tennessee (I am in New York right now) locked up in my mother's safe. She will be here in one week, so even if she brought some with her, I'd already be a week into it and wouldn't want to turn back. The best I can do is stay positive and pray for the best. I will keep everyone posted on my progress. Thank you all and GOD BLESS!!!

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    I couldn't agree more w shrimp! Encouraging diarrhea during opiate w/d is a horrible idea. Even the Thomas recipe calls for immodium to help prevent diarrhea and dehydration. I have been thru w/d so many times and I can guarantee you that it went no quicker when I was constantly on the pot or trying to keep plugged up. Even w immodium I still had diarrhea!!!! Bad advice!!!

    Read the Thomas Recipe. It's been around a while and its proven to help lessen the effects!
    shrimpboat 1942 likes this.

  8. #8
    MetalDuckMFC is offline Senior Member
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    On a side note, I find the theory on Magnesium really interesting, but I have to disagree. Like azul said; most of us have detoxed both ways. Spewing out both ends, and plugged up. And neither was faster than the other. But, if it works for you, go for it.

    Jumping from 2mg is gonna be rough, though. Not gonna sugar coat it. And it has an extremely long half life. You shouldn't even start experiencing withdrawals for 2-3 days, and it will last for the majority of those 2 weeks. But it isn't gonna kill you. Just follow the Thomas recipe, and the advice given here. You seem to have the right attitude, so a little discomfort shouldn't beat you. And you should be fine to go back to work on the 27th. That is quite the break your boss is giving you, and I HIGHLY doubt you will need to ask for more.

    And about being on 18mg/daily of Sub. That is ridiculous. Where do these Sub doctors get their licenses? A box of Cracker Jacks. I REALLY wish these doctor's were better informed on the matter. You will NEVER need more than 6mg to be inducted, and that is pretty rare. I highly suggest following Denny's advice, and re inducting on a much lower dose. It will ease some of the nasty side effects that I am sure you are experiencing, and cut the taper time by more than 50%. It is your choice, of course, but I would do it if I were in your shoes.

    In any case, good luck to the both of you. You will be in my prayers.
    shrimpboat 1942 likes this.

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    turbo_girl is offline Junior Member
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    I wish I could now, but like I said before, I am 12 hours away from home and without sub completely. I could try to holler at my doctor and have him call a couple in for me... I think he'd do it, he's a real stand-up guy, but I just want to be done with it now. I don't want to draw it out longer than I have to. I've been putting this off for years, and I just want to put it behind me. But of course, it's so easy to be brave right now because I still have sub in my system (took 2mg yesterday at 6 am) and I am feeling pretty good. When things get worse, yeah, I'll probably be changing my story. All I can do is wait and hope for the best.

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    maximus99 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny_D View Post
    turbo girl ..... You have done a very good job of tapering down to the 2mg of Sub. But as you know that is a very large amount to jump from. To answer your question as to what are you in for, the answer is that I'm not quite sure.

    Not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth. Everyone is so different. What may affect one person, may have no affect on the other. Some people really struggle with the withdrawls from Sub, and some such as myself just practically breeze through it. It really depends on the individuals metabolism, activity level, and general overall health.

    I can tell you one thing for sure is that the person that has a positive attitude through it has a much better chance at success. Believing you will have problems, you most likely will. Believing and if you keep telling yourself that you will not have problems, you most likely will have only minor symptoms. The power of the mind is amazing.

    Try not to read the horror stories, instead try to read all of the success stories on this forum alone. There are hundreds, if not even thoudands. Google The Thomas Recipe to help with withdrawls. Lots of vitamins, minerals, and supplements to help. you probably won't need the Benzo's that are suggested so just ignore them for now. And exercise as much as possible depending on your physical condition. Walking is great. Maybe a bike ride or a swim. Anything to get your natural endorphines firing back up.

    Read the thread titled "Suboxone/Subutex Half-Life...The Long Road". It will explain some of the things that you may want to know. It's in the Suboxone Section here

    And if you can try to get some Magnesium Oxide and Magnesium Citrate. Try to get 200mg tablets of the Citrate, and 400mg tablets of the Oxide. Take 1 of each twice per day. This WILL produce Diarrhea. That will get the Sub out of your system much quicker. Opiates build up in the system and are released by our bowl movements. That is why when we use Narcotics and other Opiates we usually get ourselves Constipated. Oxide and Citrate will both help you so much in my opinion.

    Now please understand That I am NOT a doctor and you should consult one BEFORE you start using the Magnesium. Especially if you are Pregnant or Nursing.
    This is always a good idea.

    I wish you the very best of luck in your situation. and if you don't mind I would like to say a Prayer for you as well. I believe that with Faith in The Lord, All things are Possible. Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny
    Denny they removed all my posts about Magnesium. Oh well....I spent a lot of time, and the magnesium discussion got majorly removed.

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    MetalDuckMFC is offline Senior Member
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    turbo, I think you're making the right decision. Like I said, it'll be rough, but it isn't going to kill you. And, since you don't really have the choice, I would say to just get it out of the way now. In 2 weeks, you'll be feeling SO much better physically. I just hope you're prepared for the mental battle that comes afterwards, and is MUCH worse. The cravings, itching thoughts, etc. I really hope that you're prepared, and check into some NA meetings, or at least continue to post here.

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    turbo_girl is offline Junior Member
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    I found some Perc 5's and took one earlier. Not sure if it helped. Maybe slightly. Did I make the wrong decision? Would taking one or two of these a day for a few days make things worse? I'm only concerned because I'm supposed to drive 8 hours on the 21st to visit my boyfriend and I want to be feeling better by that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo_girl View Post
    I found some Perc 5's and took one earlier. Not sure if it helped. Maybe slightly. Did I make the wrong decision? Would taking one or two of these a day for a few days make things worse? I'm only concerned because I'm supposed to drive 8 hours on the 21st to visit my boyfriend and I want to be feeling better by that time.
    i guess the question is, can you stop after a few days??

    thats what you have to answer. personally i feel jumping off 2mg was not a wise choice, but i see you cant go back now. tapering right down to zero is the best bet, that way you have minimal symptoms.

    and your original question, is it really that hard.? try cold turkey. then compare. i think that will give you your answer...

  14. #14
    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo_girl View Post
    I found some Perc 5's and took one earlier. Not sure if it helped. Maybe slightly. Did I make the wrong decision? Would taking one or two of these a day for a few days make things worse? I'm only concerned because I'm supposed to drive 8 hours on the 21st to visit my boyfriend and I want to be feeling better by that time.
    Hello turbo girl .... Been gone for a couple of days and I'm going to be be busy this week as I get ready for my surgery on Friday.

    I guess you need to make a firm decision that you are going to get yourself clean, and stay clean, or you are going to continue to use. I hope you make the decision to get and stay clean. It's your call.

    Taking the Perc only wet your appetite. You realize that it is only going to make you want to use more. It's real tough to want to stop now, but it can be done. Most everyone relapses. I sure did, many times.

    You had made the jump from 2mg of Sub. Not ideal but you were doing it. Now you are back at day one. You said you found SOME Perc 5's so that maens more than one. Like I said the frist one wet your appetite. I hope you can stop with one, but I'm not sure.

    Thanks for telling everyone what you did. That speakes to your desire to want to try and get clean. Again, your decision to make. Let us know what you decide to do. God Bless.....Denny

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    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by azul diablo View Post
    I couldn't agree more w shrimp! Encouraging diarrhea during opiate w/d is a horrible idea. Even the Thomas recipe calls for immodium to help prevent diarrhea and dehydration. I have been thru w/d so many times and I can guarantee you that it went no quicker when I was constantly on the pot or trying to keep plugged up. Even w immodium I still had diarrhea!!!! Bad advice!!!

    Read the Thomas Recipe. It's been around a while and its proven to help lessen the effects!
    azul .. shrimpboat .. Max ..... and Anyone else that disagreed with my post to Turbo Girl about the use of Magnesium and it's benefits for Withdrawl Symptoms.

    My apologies to Turbo Girl for using her post for this message, but instead of making a new thread, I decided to post here in the original one. I sincerely hope you understand.

    I spoke the truth about Magnesium! I based this information on my own condition at the time of my use, taper, and conclusion with using Suboxone.

    I was also advised by my own personal Sub Doctor ( a well-educated and well-versed Sub Doctor-M.D.), my personal family Physician (an M.D.), my Surgeon (orthopedic - D.O.), my additional family Physician (natural Homeopathic), the Merck Manual, and several other articles I have read concerning this issue. And as I said above, my personal experience with it. Maximus had also posted to someone about the very same thing. I'm not sure where he received his information, but it was correct.

    I had appointments with all of my Doctors recently and openly discussed the advantages of using Magnesium to help with the withdrawl symptoms from Narcotics, Sub, and others as well. They all agreed that this was in fact the case and explained just how it worked to my benefit. They all know of my past use of Narcotics and my withdrawl stmptoms as well.

    So with a total of 4 Professional Doctors of varying experiences, the Merck Manual, several other articles, and my own personal experience, there has to be some truth to it. I firmly believe so. That is my right. It is also the right of anyone not to believe it. It's your decision to make. I was only trying to help another addict as I have tried to help so many others here on the forum. I sincerely hope everyone realizes this.

    I will not go into all the "scientific" reasons that Magnesium can be beneficial to withdrawl symptoms only to say it certainly does. Drugs.com felt the need to remove some posts and that is their privilage, it's their forum. It is also their right to remove this post, but I truly hope they can see my effort to explain exactly where and how I received my information and was not implying that I knew about the benefits of Magnesium without some research behind it. I would never do that.

    I was "bothered" by all of the posts from everyone that was having trouble withdrawing from Suboxone/Subutex, and other drugs as well. I know that the use of Magnesium can be of tremendous benefit to nearly all that take it. As with anything else, there will be exceptons.

    And to answer some questions, I have read about The Thomas Recipe and all of it's benefits. I often reccomend it's use to many because I really believe it can be of help. But at the time it was written it was mainly for the use of Narcotics and other full-agonist opiates, NOT Suboxone/Subutex. The Recipe advises the use of Immodium to help keep the Diarrhea at bay, while Magnesium advises to keep the Diarrhea going to quickly remove the toxins from the body. I'll just leave it at that.

    So in an effort to keep everyone happy, and not to confuse as well, I will not mention the many benefits of Magnesium to anyone unless asked by that person to do so. The last thing that I want to do is to confuse ANYONE about it. Again, I was only trying to help. God Bless......Denny
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  16. #16
    MetalDuckMFC is offline Senior Member
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    Gotta agree with Denny on this one. Percocet is an opiate, the exact substance you're trying to get yourself clean from. You did not have enough clean time under your belt, and that "one" perc most likely set you back to day one. You need to REALLY decide if quitting right now is what you want. And, if it is, you HAVE TO ABSTAIN FROM ANY AND ALL OPIATES, and other substances too, ideally, but let's start with the main problem. If you cannot, or do not want to do that, then you're simply not ready.

    And that isn't a problem, really. This isn't a race. As long as you are making steps in the right direction, you WILL get there. And we will all be here for you, as we have thus far.

    Try not to take Denny and my posts too harsh, please. We're just concerned, and we want you to take a serious look at your goals here. I truly believe that you can and will be clean, just as soon as you want it. But, that's the thing. You have to TRULY want it. Once you truly want it, NOTHING will stop you.

  17. #17
    turbo_girl is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny_D View Post
    Hello turbo girl .... Been gone for a couple of days and I'm going to be be busy this week as I get ready for my surgery on Friday.

    I guess you need to make a firm decision that you are going to get yourself clean, and stay clean, or you are going to continue to use. I hope you make the decision to get and stay clean. It's your call.

    Taking the Perc only wet your appetite. You realize that it is only going to make you want to use more. It's real tough to want to stop now, but it can be done. Most everyone relapses. I sure did, many times.

    You had made the jump from 2mg of Sub. Not ideal but you were doing it. Now you are back at day one. You said you found SOME Perc 5's so that maens more than one. Like I said the frist one wet your appetite. I hope you can stop with one, but I'm not sure.

    Thanks for telling everyone what you did. That speakes to your desire to want to try and get clean. Again, your decision to make. Let us know what you decide to do. God Bless.....Denny
    So what you're saying is, by taking one Perc 5 yesterday, and one today, that I'm going to go through wd all over again? Truthfully, the Perc barely did anything. It helped slightly, but to wet my appetite, I honestly have no plans to relapse. I only have a few to help me get through the first few days without sub, which I hear are the worst. So, taking ONE Perc 5 a day for 3 or 4 days, it couldn't possibly do that much damage, could it? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want to know for sure, because if doing one Perc 5 a day for 4 days is really going to make matters worse, I will flush them right now. I haven't touched Oxycodone in 3 years and don't care at all about it. They mean absolutely nothing to me. I only took them to feel some form of relief.

    Thanks for your input

  18. #18
    maximus99 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny_D View Post
    azul .. shrimpboat .. Max ..... and Anyone else that disagreed with my post to Turbo Girl about the use of Magnesium and it's benefits for Withdrawl Symptoms.

    My apologies to Turbo Girl for using her post for this message, but instead of making a new thread, I decided to post here in the original one. I sincerely hope you understand.

    I spoke the truth about Magnesium! I based this information on my own condition at the time of my use, taper, and conclusion with using Suboxone.

    I was also advised by my own personal Sub Doctor ( a well-educated and well-versed Sub Doctor-M.D.), my personal family Physician (an M.D.), my Surgeon (orthopedic - D.O.), my additional family Physician (natural Homeopathic), the Merck
    Manual, and several other articles I have read concerning this issue. And as I said above, my personal experience with it.
    Maximus had also posted to someone about the very same thing. I'm not sure where he received his information, but it was correct.

    I had appointments with all of my Doctors recently and openly discussed the advantages of using Magnesium to help with the withdrawl symptoms from Narcotics, Sub, and others as well. They all agreed that this was in fact the case and explained just how it worked to my benefit. They all know of my past use of Narcotics and my withdrawl stmptoms as well.

    So with a total of 4 Professional Doctors of varying experiences, the Merck Manual,
    several other articles, and my own personal experience, there has to be some truth to it. I firmly believe so. That is my right. It is also the right of anyone not to believe it. It's your decision to make. I was only trying to help another addict as I have tried to help so many others here on the forum. I sincerely hope everyone realizes this.

    I will not go into all the "scientific" reasons that Magnesium can be beneficial to withdrawl symptoms only to say it certainly does. Drugs.com felt the need to remove
    some posts and that is their privilage, it's their forum. It is also their right to remove this post, but I truly hope they can see my effort to explain exactly where and how I received my information and was not implying that I knew about the benefits of Magnesium without some research behind it. I would never do that.

    I was "bothered" by all of the posts from everyone that was having trouble withdrawing from Suboxone/Subutex, and other drugs as well. I know that the use of Magnesium can be of tremendous benefit to nearly all that take it. As with anything else, there will be exceptons.

    And to answer some questions, I have read about The Thomas Recipe and all of it's benefits. I often reccomend it's use to many because I really believe it can be of
    help. But at the time it was written it was mainly for the use of Narcotics and other full-agonist opiates, NOT Suboxone/Subutex. The Recipe advises the use of Immodium to help keep the Diarrhea at bay, while Magnesium advises to keep the Diarrhea going to quickly remove the toxins from the body. I'll just leave it at that.

    So in an effort to keep everyone happy, and not to confuse as well, I will not mention the many benefits of Magnesium to anyone unless asked by that person to do so. The last thing that I want to do is to confuse ANYONE about it. Again, I was only trying to help. God Bless......Denny
    I agree with Eveyrthing Denny said, and also will not mention magnesium unless asked. This is a good strategy. Didn't mean to upset anyone, Shrimpboat, Azul. I was simply sharing what I have been also told by 3 different Doctors.

    But enough said.

    The whole intention here is getting off meds, and succeeding. We all share this same goal. And the other thing we share is, nobody wants to suffer needlessly.

    We want shortest WD period, so we can get back with our lives.

    A contradictory approach was introduced, which has backed up by Physician's advice, but unfortunately, was not received well.

    We shall not go there again it appears.

    All the best,

    Max-Thor

  19. #19
    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo_girl View Post
    So what you're saying is, by taking one Perc 5 yesterday, and one today, that I'm going to go through wd all over again? Truthfully, the Perc barely did anything. It helped slightly, but to wet my appetite, I honestly have no plans to relapse. I only have a few to help me get through the first few days without sub, which I hear are the worst. So, taking ONE Perc 5 a day for 3 or 4 days, it couldn't possibly do that much damage, could it? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want to know for sure, because if doing one Perc 5 a day for 4 days is really going to make matters worse, I will flush them right now. I haven't touched Oxycodone in 3 years and don't care at all about it. They mean absolutely nothing to me. I only took them to feel some form of relief.

    Thanks for your input
    You didn't feel anything from the Perc because you still have some of the Sub in your system and it is covering it up. If you are trying to get clean, and you have established some clean time of record, and then you use just one pill of any opiate, then you have just relapsed.

    So to answer your question(s), yes you could be basically be starting over with your withdrawl symptoms when you stop using the Perc's.

    All I am saying to you is to make a decision that you want to get clean or you want to still use and "feel some relief" as you say. If you want to get yourself clean, then quit using ANYTHING and get rid of the pills. If you want to "feel some relief" then you can continue to use.

    I'm not trying to sound rough or to belittle you in any way. It's just that I have been exactly where you are many times and I know just what you are going through, and what will happen if you continue to use pills. God Bless.....Denny

  20. #20
    turbo_girl is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny_D View Post
    You didn't feel anything from the Perc because you still have some of the Sub in your system and it is covering it up. If you are trying to get clean, and you have established some clean time of record, and then you use just one pill of any opiate, then you have just relapsed.

    So to answer your question(s), yes you could be basically be starting over with your withdrawl symptoms when you stop using the Perc's.

    All I am saying to you is to make a decision that you want to get clean or you want to still use and "feel some relief" as you say. If you want to get yourself clean, then quit using ANYTHING and get rid of the pills. If you want to "feel some relief" then you can continue to use.

    I'm not trying to sound rough or to belittle you in any way. It's just that I have been exactly where you are many times and I know just what you are going through, and what will happen if you continue to use pills. God Bless.....Denny
    I'm on day 4 right now. Things aren't so bad during the day, if I'm moving around a little, but bedtime is THE WORST. I toss, turn, can't find a comfortable position to save my life, I hurt, you know. All that jazz. I'm still taking the Clonidine 3 times a day and Valium twice a day. I took a 2mg Klonopin last night to help me sleep (because 2mg of Klonopin usually knocks me out cold), but it didn't do ANYTHING for me. Does anyone know if I can take antidepressants while going through withdrawals? Do they help at all with the mental aspect of it? I am still taking one percocet per day, but only when I feel like I can't take it any longer. I'm going to go down to every other day, then stop. I know, I know... you all don't agree with it. I just can't deal with the withdrawals on their own. I will start going down to every other day, or break them in half, then stop in about 3 days. I mean, Percocet 5's..... I'm sorry. I just don't see the harm. I am no expert like you all and I'm probably way off base here, but I just don't see it. I have never been so motivated to get clean in my entire life. I am ready for this to be over. My friend, who has gone though the exact same thing as me, said her wd's lasted 2 weeks, but the mental battle lasted longer than that. She said antidepressants helped her a lot. And she even said she took an occasional hydro. But anyway, can I start taking antidepressants now? Do they help?

    By the way, I've heard day 4 is the worst. Is this true? I hope it is, because today is day 4.

  21. #21
    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo_girl View Post
    I'm on day 4 right now. Things aren't so bad during the day, if I'm moving around a little, but bedtime is THE WORST. I toss, turn, can't find a comfortable position to save my life, I hurt, you know. All that jazz. I'm still taking the Clonidine 3 times a day and Valium twice a day. I took a 2mg Klonopin last night to help me sleep (because 2mg of Klonopin usually knocks me out cold), but it didn't do ANYTHING for me. Does anyone know if I can take antidepressants while going through withdrawals? Do they help at all with the mental aspect of it? I am still taking one percocet per day, but only when I feel like I can't take it any longer. I'm going to go down to every other day, then stop. I know, I know... you all don't agree with it. I just can't deal with the withdrawals on their own. I will start going down to every other day, or break them in half, then stop in about 3 days. I mean, Percocet 5's..... I'm sorry. I just don't see the harm. I am no expert like you all and I'm probably way off base here, but I just don't see it. I have never been so motivated to get clean in my entire life. I am ready for this to be over. My friend, who has gone though the exact same thing as me, said her wd's lasted 2 weeks, but the mental battle lasted longer than that. She said antidepressants helped her a lot. And she even said she took an occasional hydro. But anyway, can I start taking antidepressants now? Do they help?

    By the way, I've heard day 4 is the worst. Is this true? I hope it is, because today is day 4.
    You said in post # 17 that if continuing to take the Percs would make things worse you would flush them right away. Well if you are taking even one you are making things worse! So are you going to keep your word?

    And you say you are on day 4 right now. Day 4 of what? Being off the Sub? I hope you didn't mean 4 days of being clean. Not trying to get you upset. Only trying to get you to see the light.

    And you are way off base in your thinking. you either want to get yourself clean, or you want to continue to use just as you are now. Taking even 1 Perc per day is only going to prolong your withdrawl symptoms.

    Listen me, and most everyone else here has been EXACTLY where you are right now. And you came here looking for advice and suggestions. You were told that your very best option was to get yourself clean. You haven't used the advice you were given. I know it's tough, it's difficult, it's hard, but I believe you really want to get clean.

    You jumped from a very large amount of Sub (2mg) and you were on your way to being clean and then decided to use some Percs because you weren't feeling well. You need to quit using and stay clean. You don't go a few days of not using and then try to take a "comfort dose" of Percs. That makes things worse, much worse.

    And you're taking Clonidine, Klonopin, and want to use AntiDepressants too! If your friend is taking an occasional Hydro, she is not clean. I'm not going to comment on the antidepressants. I'll leave that for someone else to do.

    Listen, I really care about you. I don't even know who you are, but I am taking time out of my very busy day to try and help you. and so are so many others as well. The least you could do is maybe listen to what is being said. It's all in your best interest.

    Again, it's your decision to make. Keep using and stay addicted, or quit using ANYTHING and get yourself clean and STAY clean. If you are so 'motivated" as you say it should be somrthing you are willing to do, right now.

    And please take this post in the spirit in which it was intented. Only trying to help you. It's your call. Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny

  22. #22
    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny_D View Post
    You said in post # 17 that if continuing to take the Percs would make things worse you would flush them right away. Well if you are taking even one you are making things worse! So are you going to keep your word?

    And you say you are on day 4 right now. Day 4 of what? Being off the Sub? I hope you didn't mean 4 days of being clean. Not trying to get you upset. Only trying to get you to see the light.

    And you are way off base in your thinking. you either want to get yourself clean, or you want to continue to use just as you are now. Taking even 1 Perc per day is only going to prolong your withdrawl symptoms.

    Listen me, and most everyone else here has been EXACTLY where you are right now. And you came here looking for advice and suggestions. You were told that your very best option was to get yourself clean. You haven't used the advice you were given. I know it's tough, it's difficult, it's hard, but I believe you really want to get clean.

    You jumped from a very large amount of Sub (2mg) and you were on your way to being clean and then decided to use some Percs because you weren't feeling well. You need to quit using and stay clean. You don't go a few days of not using and then try to take a "comfort dose" of Percs. That makes things worse, much worse.

    And you're taking Clonidine, Klonopin, and want to use AntiDepressants too! If your friend is taking an occasional Hydro, she is not clean. I'm not going to comment on the antidepressants. I'll leave that for someone else to do.

    Listen, I really care about you. I don't even know who you are, but I am taking time out of my very busy day to try and help you. and so are so many others as well. The least you could do is maybe listen to what is being said. It's all in your best interest.

    Again, it's your decision to make. Keep using and stay addicted, or quit using ANYTHING and get yourself clean and STAY clean. If you are so 'motivated" as you say it should be somrthing you are willing to do, right now.

    And please take this post in the spirit in which it was intented. Only trying to help you. It's your call. Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny
    I forgot to mention to you that someone else suggested (maybe Chuck) that the use of a sleeping bag or electric blanket works wonders at bedtime for the RLS and RAS. Roll up in it ang get it as hot as you can stand it. Sounds like it just might work. I hope it really does for you!

  23. #23
    ClassiqueMom is offline Senior Member
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    turbo girl..

    my heart goes out to you..

    it's a good thing that you say you are determined..

    honey, please, (and it's only my advice) do not, if you
    can help it, do not take anti-depressants..

    they are another trap, if you ask me..
    i've read on the internet soooooooo many people
    who are chained by them, as much as pain pills..

    do you want to trade one addiction (set of chains)
    for another? i'm sure you don't!

    please! stay busy! .. go for a walk.. it doesn't have
    to be anything intense, ya know?

    try taking another one before bed..

    you may not feel like it.. but make yourself do it!
    sooooo many people say it helps a great deal

    turbo girl.. you are in my prayers for strength, resolve
    and endurance..

    think back, how quickly time passes.. the days, the weeks, the months, the years..

    this too, shall pass.. you can DO it!

    Beautiful <--click

    Hugs & prayers
    Classique MoM

  24. #24
    freedom11 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Turbogirl
    YOu must be rattling when you're walking you're taking so many pills!! There's not an easy way out here - if there was, I promise you, I would have done it and so would have lots of others. If you're finding it hard, talk about it, share here as you have done - but sounds like the addict part of you is still going 'just take a pill to fix it'. ANd that's the part that got you here in the first place. It will do its utmost to get you to give in. My only experience is being an addict myself and finding that I have to fight that addict monster, sometimes on an hourly/daily basis. Keep fighting. YOu can get through this. Keep posting. Love Jay xx

  25. #25
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    turbo, if you are at day 4 off subs, good on ya girl...

    ok so you are using a few percs. just keep it to the bare minimum or you will end up with a problem with them too. but if you can keep it to only one when it gets real bad, well, sometimes we do what we gotta do to get clean....

    its not an overnight thing, and as long as you are committed like you say you are, well then go for it....

    its your recovery and you gotta do it how you see fit.....
    OXYmom likes this.

  26. #26
    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheekysod View Post
    turbo, if you are at day 4 off subs, good on ya girl...

    ok so you are using a few percs. just keep it to the bare minimum or you will end up with a problem with them too. but if you can keep it to only one when it gets real bad, well, sometimes we do what we gotta do to get clean....

    its not an overnight thing, and as long as you are committed like you say you are, well then go for it....

    its your recovery and you gotta do it how you see fit.....
    Cheeky .... In all due respect, I know you are trying to be of help, but telling Turbo Girl that it's alright to take a few Percs is not good advice at this time. It goes against everything trying to be accomplished here.

    When Turbo first posted she said she went to her Aunts house 12 hours away from her own so in her words "I could be sure that I could quit". She was forced to "jump" from 2mg of Sub because she ran out of them and is trying extremely hard to get herself clean. Telling her to do what you did just undermines the whole thought process.

    Telling an addict to "just keep it to the bare minimum" when taking Percs as you suggested is not going to do anything but enable her to use, and make her believe she's doing the right thing. Not in her best interest at this time.

    I'm quite sure if you had the chance to say it over again you would tell her something different. I hope anyway. Sorry to be so blunt. God Bless.....Denny

  27. #27
    Anonymous Guest

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    actually i would say the same thing denny.

    not all of us have an easy time gettin off subs... and at 2mg thats pretty high as you know. so taking a few percs to get thru, is ok in my books.

    way back on this forum, there was a guy intelmetal, used subs to get off a long stint on methadone... he actually used darvocet for 10 days to get over the sub jump... it was not true to the 'taper' but it worked for him...

    i also said to turbo to be careful... she seems committed.

    whatever works man

    and p.s, she was doing it anyway, i did not suggest it.i just commented, and tried to give her some encouragement, not bag her for 'failing' or not doing it 'the correct way according to hoyle'[
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-11-2011 at 04:12 PM.
    Littln12 likes this.

  28. #28
    ComingHome is offline Senior Member
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    I agree with Denny here. Taking a few percs is likely to open up the craving and lead back into daily use. How many times have we all said "I'll just take one" or "I'll just take a couple." It's just not possible for addicts normally.
    Denny_D likes this.
    There is ALWAYS hope

  29. #29
    turbo_girl is offline Junior Member
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    Default What should I do now?

    Ok, Ok. I am getting rid of the percs. I took two today because I was a crying emotional mess and felt like I wanted to kill myself. I took them from my aunt's medicine cabinet when she wasn't looking. I'm giving them back to her. I told her the truth and she wasn't mad.

    Now, here's the main thing I wanted you all's input on. My mom is overnighting the rest of my Suboxone tomorrow, so they will get here Thursday. Should I continue with the detox and not worry about reinducting myself at a lower dose? By the time they get here, I will be at day 6 sub-free (but have taken many other pills, like the Clonidine, Valium, Klonopin, Xanax, and the occasional Percocet). What should I do? Will I start feeling better by then?? I told my mom that if I'm feeling even a little bit better by then, I won't bother with the Sub, but if I'm still feeling like death, I MIGHT try to reinduct myself at a low dose, if that will make things easier. I have to go back to work around Oct. 31st and I plan on being off suboxone by then for sure. I just want as little wd's as possible, because the ones I'm having right now are like dying, but without the pleasure of actually dying. Night time is the worst, day time isn't as bad. Half of me wants to take more Suboxone, the other half just wants to keep going and tough it out. I don't know what to do. So I am asking you all:

    Should I take the Sub when it arrives and try to reinduct myself at a lower dose?
    Should I just keep going with the detox since I will have been 6 days sub free?

    Thanks everyone

  30. #30
    ComingHome is offline Senior Member
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    You're going to feel like death for a while regardless - there's no painless way to come off opiates or suboxone. The only thing that made me feel better was time between my last use and the present. The tides eventually turned where I started having more good days than bad days, but in the beginning it was the opposite. Good luck.

    CH
    There is ALWAYS hope

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