[SABIAN23]

I guess i will start by saying that i am very knowledgable when it comes to prescription drugs, i have been an addict for many years, and i was also a heroin user as well, my addiction has spanned a 13 year period, and now i have a new problem and thought i might see if i could get some awnsers and advice on here. I have been on suboxone for over two years now, i am on 16 mgs sublingually each day, and it was a wonder drug for me for the first year and a half because it has given me my life back. I was on as much as 300 mgs of methadone prior to getting on suboxone, and could never get enough, and oxys and heroin, and morphine and all the others prior to that. We all know the story of addiction so here is my problem. Suboxone has literally saved my life and given it back, but the past six months i have been in large amounts of pain, my muscles hurt all the time in my arms and legs, and if feels like my bones hurt. I have chronic hot flashes, and am slowly losing energy. But the worst part is the constant pain i am in. Has anyone else experienced this with long term suboxone use??? Is this simply the side effects, cause if so i will taper down and take a very low dose, as i feel i am a lifelong candidate for this considering my huge opiate problem, or should i be concerned it is something worse that may be wrong with me medically? I have been reading that it may be suboxone that is causing my symptoms and that is disheartening considering this medication has given me my life back. Any information is much appreciated.

[Robert_325]

You're taking a huge dose of suboxone especially over such a long period of time. You should be getting that dose down according to our standard taper plan and I guarantee your pain in the muscles/bones will dissipate as it's most likely a side effect of your history. Let me know how I can help you. God bless.

[SABIAN23]

Thanks robert, i know i am on quite a large dose, i have suffered from chroic pain since i was 17, and i just turned 30 in april, suboxone has given me a life again after 12 years of hell and addiction, yes im still on something, but i have two jobs, a new truck, a family, a life, all things i could not hang onto prior to suboxone, so thank you, that gives me hope that if i get down to a lower dose these symptoms may subside. What would be a low enough dose??? Maybe 4 mgs daily, is that a good goal. I appreciate your response.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by SABIAN23

Thanks robert, i know i am on quite a large dose, i have suffered from chroic pain since i was 17, and i just turned 30 in april, suboxone has given me a life again after 12 years of hell and addiction, yes im still on something, but i have two jobs, a new truck, a family, a life, all things i could not hang onto prior to suboxone, so thank you, that gives me hope that if i get down to a lower dose these symptoms may subside. What would be a low enough dose??? Maybe 4 mgs daily, is that a good goal. I appreciate your response.

It varies for everyone. Start tapering down at the rate of 25% of your daily dose. Do that about every four days as long as you're feeling ok. You shouldn't even notice the drop especially at the high doses.

No way that I would stop at 4mg. I would plan on trying to go all the way as unreasonable as that may sound right now. You'll be shocked how much better you feel as you get the opiates out of your system.

As you get the dose down low you'll start feeling much better I'm very confiident. But we'll have to see how you progress before I can answer a question like that with any kind of accuracy. Need to see how you do.

Keep me posted. God bless.

[SABIAN23]

Well i know you are on the money when you say i need to go all the way, the problem is i have been on such high amounts of opiates over the past twelve years i have failed misserably at getting off totally. The last time i was in treatment is when they put me on this suboxone coming off large amounts of methadone, i was there for 40 days inpatient, and the last six days they had me on nothing. I was misserable, to say the least, so the doc actually pulled me in and said i have been watching you and i dont feel comfortable sending you out of here on nothing and he put me back on the suboxone. So i know i need to get off completely, it is just very hard for me with chronic pain. This medication has given me my life back but now it seems it is turning on me a bit. So i am going to do my best to taper down, and i will keep you posted, if i feel better and i am able to get off of it i will. Thanks,

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by SABIAN23

Well i know you are on the money when you say i need to go all the way, the problem is i have been on such high amounts of opiates over the past twelve years i have failed misserably at getting off totally. The last time i was in treatment is when they put me on this suboxone coming off large amounts of methadone, i was there for 40 days inpatient, and the last six days they had me on nothing. I was misserable, to say the least, so the doc actually pulled me in and said i have been watching you and i dont feel comfortable sending you out of here on nothing and he put me back on the suboxone. So i know i need to get off completely, it is just very hard for me with chronic pain. This medication has given me my life back but now it seems it is turning on me a bit. So i am going to do my best to taper down, and i will keep you posted, if i feel better and i am able to get off of it i will. Thanks,

I promise you personally that if you follow my suggestions to the letter everything will work. I have a good history here. Read around the forum, ask others questions about what I say and you will see my history.

Talk to me tomorrow and let me know how I can help. God bless.

[SABIAN23]

Hey robert, you didnt have to tell me about your history, it kinda speaks for itself around here. The minute i got on to this forum it was evident that you were a go to guy, :d. I have alot of experience in drug addiction having gone through treatment 3 times, and my father owned the largest clean and sober living community/ treatment facility in the state of california at one time called new freedom, that was during his ten year stint with sobriety. Unfortunatly it has grabbed him again, however, with all the knowledge i do have, and the wonderful sponsor i was blessed with, i still have not been able to be completely free of drugs. I am taking my meds as prescribed, and it has given me a life again, and i have not used anything other than my sub in years, but it is time for me to break these chains that bind me. Now i have no insurance, so any extra money i have goes to my meds, and it is time i feel to be 100% free of this. So, i was on 16mgs daily up until two days ago, i have taken 8 mgs once a day, for the last two days, and that is how i started my day today. Day 3 of 8 mgs and i am starting to notice it, but it is nothing i cant handle up to this point, i want to stay at 8, cutting my dose in half from 16 until i am stable. Is this a good idea?? I feel it will give me a good start to getting off of the subs. If you could give me a few pointers on what to do now, and if i can handle this drop, 8 mgs, how long should i stay at that before i drop some more?? Anyways sorry this was so long, try and keep it short from here on out. Thanks robert.

[SABIAN23]

Hey robert, just checking in, i replied to you earlier, im sure your pretty busy, get back to me when you have a chance. Thanks,

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by SABIAN23

Hey robert, you didnt have to tell me about your history, it kinda speaks for itself around here. The minute i got on to this forum it was evident that you were a go to guy, :d. I have alot of experience in drug addiction having gone through treatment 3 times, and my father owned the largest clean and sober living community/ treatment facility in the state of california at one time called new freedom, that was during his ten year stint with sobriety. Unfortunatly it has grabbed him again, however, with all the knowledge i do have, and the wonderful sponsor i was blessed with, i still have not been able to be completely free of drugs. I am taking my meds as prescribed, and it has given me a life again, and i have not used anything other than my sub in years, but it is time for me to break these chains that bind me. Now i have no insurance, so any extra money i have goes to my meds, and it is time i feel to be 100% free of this. So, i was on 16mgs daily up until two days ago, i have taken 8 mgs once a day, for the last two days, and that is how i started my day today. Day 3 of 8 mgs and i am starting to notice it, but it is nothing i cant handle up to this point, i want to stay at 8, cutting my dose in half from 16 until i am stable. Is this a good idea?? I feel it will give me a good start to getting off of the subs. If you could give me a few pointers on what to do now, and if i can handle this drop, 8 mgs, how long should i stay at that before i drop some more?? Anyways sorry this was so long, try and keep it short from here on out. Thanks robert.

Sounds like you're reducing too quickly. If you'll drop by 25% of your daily dose every four days you'll likely feel much better.

Subs have a very long half life, based on some variables it can be from 36-72 hours easily. So dropping by 50% after using for so long is asking for problems. I would not drop by any more than the standard 25% every four days without expecting to suffer very noticeable w/d problems.

You should have gone from 16mg down to 12mg, then to 9mg, then to 6.75mg and so on until you get down to between .25-.5mg per day and then you start a process of skipping days which we can address when you get there depending on the success you're having at the time. Hope that helps. God bless.

[SABIAN23]

Hi robert,

well you were right, i woke up this morning, having had only 8 mgs a day for four days, and i was really starting to notice the w/ds pretty bad. Sneezing, watery eyes, and having other issues i dont really care to discuss at the time, lol, anyways there is no need for me to be miserable during this process, i can handle uncomfortable. So today i am going to take 12 mgs, and stabalize there. My question is, do i go from 12 mgs for a few days and then go straight to 9.5? Or do i taper to 11 then 10 then 9.5 over those three to four days? I hope that makes sense. And i also wanted to know if you have heard any other people who have had what seems to be muscle and bone pain in the arms and legs and it was caused by suboxone, or maybe the history of opiate use. It is concerning me a bit. Thanks for your help,

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by SABIAN23

Hi robert,

well you were right, i woke up this morning, having had only 8 mgs a day for four days, and i was really starting to notice the w/ds pretty bad. Sneezing, watery eyes, and having other issues i dont really care to discuss at the time, lol, anyways there is no need for me to be miserable during this process, i can handle uncomfortable. So today i am going to take 12 mgs, and stabalize there. My question is, do i go from 12 mgs for a few days and then go straight to 9.5? Or do i taper to 11 then 10 then 9.5 over those three to four days? I hope that makes sense. And i also wanted to know if you have heard any other people who have had what seems to be muscle and bone pain in the arms and legs and it was caused by suboxone, or maybe the history of opiate use. It is concerning me a bit. Thanks for your help,

Go back up to 12mg immediately. Take 6mg twice each day about 8 hours apart and dose at the same times each day. Don't be changing around the time you take the sub doses.

As I suggested before you will taper by 25% every four days (that you don't have w/d symptom). Don't waste your energy thinking up alternative plans like 11mg, or 9.5mg or anything else. It's simple, stick to the 25% reduction. Based on the amount of time you've been on the subs it may take you an extra day or two at some levels and that is why I ask people to post regularly so that if you are having any problems we can correct them at that point.

Plan on spending a good four days at 12mg. Keep me posted how you're feeling through those four days so we'll know when the right time to reduce comes up again.

Have confidence in yourself being able to do this, but it's a critical factor that you follow the instructions. Don't try to change anything that has been proven successful time and again in the past. Keep us posted. God bless.

[SABIAN23]

SORRY, I HAD A FEW DAYS OFF WORK AND DIDNT GET ON THE COMPUTER AT ALL, I HAVE BEEN ON 12 MGS NOW FOR ABOUT 3 DAYS, I FEEL I MAY NEED A FEW MORE DAYS TO STABALIZE HERE, NOT TOO BAD, BUT I HAVE FELT THE DROP, AND IM DOING BETTER, MY SYMPTOMS I WAS HAVING BEFORE SEEM TO BE GETTING A LITTLE BETTER EVEN AT A 4 MG DROP. IS IT OK TO STAY AT 12 MGS FOR 5 OR 6 DAYS THEN DROP TO 9MGS? JUST THOUGHT I WOULD KEEP YOU POSTED LIKE YOU ASKED, AND I WILL LET YOU KNOW HOW I AM FEELING TOMORROW. THANK YOU FOR CARING ABOUT PEOPLE YOU DONT EVEN KNOW. KM

[Robert_325]

SABIAN ...... it's okay if you need a few extra days at any given dose. We are all a little different. Main thing is to continue making progress at all times. This is about progress not perfection. God bless.

[SABIAN23]

Robert, god knows i am not perfect, lol, wow, im so far from perfect when it comes to this, but i am progressing and i will get off of this, i will let you know when i am ready to drop my dose, and try and keep you informed, i am going to require your help when i get down to the lower doses im sure, thanks for your help. Km