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Always been a silent reader, on a sub taper, and thank you people
  1. #1
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Default Always been a silent reader, on a sub taper, and thank you people

    Hello everyone,

    I just want to first thank all of you frequent posters on this forum because you have been impacting my life and I know you don't know it, but you have. In fact, I am sure you are impacting quite a few peoples lives by your frequent posting and good on you for that. You are a Godsend.

    I have been a silent reader on this forum for many months - actually on and off for a year. Without a doubt, I know there have to be dozens of the silent readers out there that have been just like me. Coming to this forum to read peoples tapering experience to get a glimpse for what they might be able to expect on their own journey of dwindling down on Subs or DOC. Some posts would scare the living daylights out of me while others would provide the motivation and inspiration to give it an attempt. Of course everyone has their own unique experience and you don;t know how you will be affected until you try it. So.....if your ready.....DO IT.

    Secondly, I want to reach out to those fellow silent readers and non/seldom posters. Of course everyone comes here for different reasons, but I am specifically speaking to those who have been on subuxone/subutex for a long period of time and have actually been wanting to get off it....for a very....long....time...., but have just been to intimidated. I actually spent way more time on subutex than I did on Oxycontin and it was by recommendation of the doctors. Very disappointed as I personally know a few people that did a quick few weeks / month taper with suboxone and got their life back.

    I have tapered down to .5 and been on it for about two weeks. I followed Roberts plan with twists here and there to accommodate my own body reactions and being on Subutex for 4 years. Yes, i am still on it, but I will tell you that my head is so much more clear now at this dose than it has been in YEARS. I am a naturally motivated and determined individual who just got caught up in drugs like many unfortunately do. While on subs, I have been very fortunate to experience success in terms of a promising career and accomplishments. I thank God for them everyday. For anonymity purposes I am not comfortable disclosing details about my company, position, accomplishments, etc., but my point is, I feared that my drive, determination, and ability to reach the top would subside when I lowered my dose and ultimately came off of it. There may be silent readers who fit this bill as well. Been on it for years, seem to be doing well, but know deep down they don't still need to be on it. Also incredibly scared and unsure how you will be affected by coming off. While I am still on .5 (.25 in morning and .25 afternoon) and 100% know I am far from being in the clear, I can already tell you that I feel like I have sold myself short for sooooooooooooooooooooo long. The clarity I am experiencing now is empowering. Without a doubt in my mind I feel that I would have accomplished much, much more by now had I not been on subs for so many years. Yes, some of you may say "well, yeah...duh." But I am sure there are those that can relate in that you may attribute some of your success to the sub because you felt it was serving a great purpose. Form me, I felt subutex was giving me the motivation to do what I was doing - and it was to a degree, but oh so, so, so false. Truth is we all have the motivation in us and just need to find what inspires us, what makes us dream big and go after those dreams. It's there, and its all natural. Sub is powerful and can be an amazing tool when understood. Robert has a great grasp on it as do many of the frequent posters.

    To sum up my long post, this clarity, which has continued to grow over the last two months of tapering, only continues to give me the motivation and determination to keep it going and see it to the end. My plan is to be off by Oct. 1. For me personally, the slower taper has worked as long as you are controlled and WANTING to live a beautiful life again. Five years was/is a long time on this medicine and I absolutely admit it that I didn't need it this long by any means, just wanted it and was addicted to it. I even remember being extremely shocked at being given so much sub that I was like, "wow, this is too much, I won't need to take it every day so why would they be giving me so much. I thought this would be a week to a one month deal considering my use was ....I didn't know anything and went by the docs advice..."

    Sorry for the length, but I just wanted to reach the silent readers and non posters who may be in a similar position as me. If you are like me and have been striving to get off suboxone / subutex for a very long period of time and just haven't yet, DO IT. JUST DO IT. Exercise, surround yourself with great people, eat a good diet, attend meetings, and most importantly: DISCOVER THE ROOT CAUSE FOR YOUR USE AND ABUSE.

    God bless you all! And again, thank you to all the posters for the inspiration and motivation.

    This post is my experience and opinions. No other intentions but to thank people, share, and motivate. Might continue posting here as I come to the end because I am FULLY aware I still have a ways to go and being off it officially will be the true test.

  2. #2
    Sunny mom is offline Member
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    Just wanted to say hello and welcome, glad you went from Reader, to Poster! Keep up the great work and i do hope you'll continue to post, because it really helps!

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    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Thank you Sunny Mom. I think I will. I have a wonderful family, great friends (NONE of whom use), a good therapist, but no one else (including family) has any idea about me being on Subutex for so long. Only one friend waaaaay back when I started knew about it, but we have since stopped communicating. It is so weird to think I have kept this secret for so long and I am so excited to move on. So, I think posting may be a good thing for me and I have also been searching for NA meetings. However, anonymity is very important to me. I understand that is the basis of the NA meetings, but I am doing a little more research before checking one out. Speaking with my therapists helps, but speaking with other individuals may be great as well. Thus, my reason for speaking out.

    Some may ask if you have wonderful family then why have you kept this from them? Truthfully, even though they would have backed me 100%, I still hate the feeling of letting people down. I can see myself speaking to them about it once I am off of it, but at this point my focus is dropping the last .5 / day and I am hoping this forum can get me through the next couple weeks and beyond. We are all unique, all have our own situations, but we are all capable of being the people we want to be. Thats my goal. Hope everyone is staying strong.

    Cheers

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    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Also, re-read my post and aside from a few spelling errors (and length), I just wanted to point out that I said 4 years in one place and 5 in another. Last thing I want is an inconsistency, especially in my first post, as I have been a reader long enough to know it causes uneasiness when you come across one. First day on Sub was mid 2007 and it just blows my mind, absolutely blows my mind that it has been that long. But hey, along with my strong belief in God, I firmly believe everything happens for a reason. Everything.

    Goodnight and I hope the week goes well.
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    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Cross those are very kind words, welcome and you hang in there and please continue to post. We are here for you Dog
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  6. #6
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Cross, I just wanted to say:
    What an awesome post.
    Thank you for actually posting so eloquently about all those silently reading and benefiting from the power of this forum.
    I love this place. It really feels like a home.
    And we're happy to welcome you :-)

    Please keep us updated on your progress, and let's show those silent readers another success story :-D
    Last edited by winged eagle; 09-11-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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  7. #7
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Thank you surf dog, Winged Eagle, Sunny Mom, and everyone for the posts/likes. Feels so, so strange yet so good to hear that people are there for me during my sub taper considering it has been a secret for so long. Besides a relatively new therapist (whom I like), a sub doc, and one friend years ago, you all are the only ones in on the secret. It would absolutely blow peoples mind that know me that I have been on it - especially for so long. Im sure others can relate.

    I really appreciate the words and support as I continue this journey to a new chapter. Even though I have experienced positive things over the last several years while on sub, I still felt trapped inside. For too long my life has been one of those books we all tend to have with dust on it, sitting in a corner, and still has a creased page marking where we left off. Well, I have opened that book again, uncreased the page forever, and going to finish this chapter in my life before starting a new one. Sub free, positive, enthusiastic, and determined to accomplish goals I set for myself years ago.

    I love the threads out there that give the motivation, inspiration, and willpower to do what many readers may be coming here for. So many of you have done just that and are entirely responsible for my active presence now, and I am sure you have been for others as well. Hopefully we get get more positive, upbeat, "lets kick the sh** out addiction and be the people we always knew we could be" posters on here. I know they are out there cause I was a reader on and off for a year. Have spent dozens and dozens of hours reading. Unfortunately, I was deterred many months ago by some scary, negative threads a ways back that only gave more anxiety and made me take a break from reading. Of course sharing the dark stories we all have are therapeutic and extremely beneficial as readers can relate, learn, and react, but I truly believe there is a method for going about writing the posts, as many of you have clearly demonstrated.

    I am at .5 (.25 in morning and .25 afternoon) and have scheduled a drop to .25 one week from today. Then will drop soon after. Would love be off by Oct 1, but I have been on for so long and a slow taper (more than 4 days per drop) has been working great for me thus far. Kept reducing the 25% each drop though.

    Have noticed that dosing the split dose at the SAME time each day is crucial. Of course some days are rough mentally, but physically I do okay. Lots of leg (mainly toe) movement, but absolutely does not bother me one bit - at least not yet... It's just my toes are getting ready to do some dancing when I am clean. A little practice, you know. Thank God because I sure as hell can't dance.

    It has been strange though because there have been a few mornings (sporatic) over the last two weeks at this dose where I wake up sick (mild stomach ache, sometimes feel like throwing up, and can't eat) until I take the .25. Felt it again today, but not the last several. Stress could be playing a role in it though. Or maybe diet....or lack of exercise that day...or fast metabolism...who knows. Lots of factors and my goal is to identify it and fix it. After I have taken the dose, I immediately start feeling better, can eat, and can get on with my day just fine. A little anxiety (who doesn't), but as soon as negative thoughts come, I get those positive ones flowing immediately. Just think of funny things/times with friends or pump myself up by telling me the great things I have been fortunate enough to do in life. Or, I just realize that I have nothing to complain about when put into perspective. After all, ONE BILLION people, I repeat, ONE BILLION people on this planet still do not have access to clean drinking water and many walk quite a ways for their water each day. List goes on with similar instances. So I always tell myself, things could be worse, much, much, worse...

    Really sorry for the long post. It may happen at times.

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    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Difficult day mentally. Started feeling the depression I had not felt in a long, long, long time. Assume its the brain healing, but it just felt like the old depression I experienced for awhile earlier on life before I had even touched drugs. The depression and social anxiety was what got it alllll started. Feels sooooo weird to feel this again because I honestly didn't feel it while on subs the last 5 years. Of course I had my down days, but I was able to pick myself up easier than it seems now. My mood was much more stable, although the anxiety kept increasing and increasingly the last two years. Or, maybe I was just picked up by another dose??? (Really just thinking and writing right now so I am obviously trying to work things out in my mind at the same time. Treating this as a journal written in a book with a pencil, if that makes sense.)

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    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Really, really, really want to point out I am writing this as a journal and am not in anyway trying to make myself seem important or "hey look at what I've done," because who cares. Seriously, I know no-one could give a shXX about that stuff. It's an anonymous forum! Just doing this as it will be great for me to refer back to as I continue my journey. Why not do it offline? I have realized there are people out there in similar situations who will chime in and even more helpful is those chiming in that have had complete different experiences since I can learn and gain from their perspectives and experience. After all, we all share the same disease and it DOES NOT discriminate. Never know who the best advice will come from. Opening up more as I feel safer and safer on here. After all, no one even knows I am on sub / have been on it....

    What is really messing with my mind, and as mentioned previously, is that I actually experienced great success in the past 5 years and was on the subs the entire time - albeit a low dose. Never, ever, was over 4 mg / day. I'm in my late twenties, but have been able to accomplish everything (almost...) I have set out for in the last 5 years, which has provided financial stability. Obtained two post grad degrees from top 50 institution, published a book (business related, nothing enjoyable and of course won't say), in a great network of successful business people, reputation for hard/loyal/gets the job done professional with "promising" career ahead. I have also been in the process of my next venture, but wanted to prove to myself it is ME going after my dreams. Don't need the sub. This is tough guys. Real tough.
    Last edited by Crossifixio; 09-13-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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  10. #10
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Just read your thread, Cross, what wonderful things you say! I'm so glad you are getting a handle on your taper and working to get off subs entirely. And yeah, the hard part: feeling again. That's why you do what you need to do to keep yourself busy, exercise and all that good stuff. That's why you seek help: NA, POSTING, whatever. It is absolutely the hardest thing that you will ever do, because we have to get to know ourselves again without the drugs. Winged Eagle wrote a great post about addiction. Addiction holds us hostage and many people do not realize how HARD HARD HARD conquering addiction can be, because we are always going to be addicts, hopefully not active addicts. But I know you will be the "BEST ME" you can be in all of the wonderful human ways we ARE: depressed, angry, happy, sad, whatever: but clean. I wish you well and: Hang Tough!

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  11. #11
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Bottom Line:
    It's been 5 years. The fear is will I be able to maintain the motivation and determination once completely off?? Of course I need patience, but this is tough. I re-read my first post a couple times to get that positive energy going. I know many of you whose threads I read and posted on are successful with great careers as well, so how does it feel? (The ones that come to mind are Wing and the active posters on her thread. I know there are others I have come across as well.)

    Been reading a good motivational book and looking forward to officially CBT going first of October as scheduled. Anyone have great experience with the CBT as portrayed in research studies?

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    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Just read your thread, Cross, what wonderful things you say! I'm so glad you are getting a handle on your taper and working to get off subs entirely. And yeah, the hard part: feeling again. That's why you do what you need to do to keep yourself busy, exercise and all that good stuff. That's why you seek help: NA, POSTING, whatever. It is absolutely the hardest thing that you will ever do, because we have to get to know ourselves again without the drugs. Winged Eagle wrote a great post about addiction. Addiction holds us hostage and many people do not realize how HARD HARD HARD conquering addiction can be, because we are always going to be addicts, hopefully not active addicts. But I know you will be the "BEST ME" you can be in all of the wonderful human ways we ARE: depressed, angry, happy, sad, whatever: but clean. I wish you well and: Hang Tough!

    Peace,

    Iloerose
    Thank you! Just saw that right after my last post (must have crossed paths in cyberspace). I am ready for the hard work, just feels good to get this journal going. Who would have thought. HA. I am the LAST person I ever thought would journal. It just might be the key.
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  13. #13
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crossifixio View Post
    Bottom Line:
    It's been 5 years. The fear is will I be able to maintain the motivation and determination once completely off?? Of course I need patience, but this is tough. I re-read my first post a couple times to get that positive energy going. I know many of you whose threads I read and posted on are successful with great careers as well, so how does it feel? (The ones that come to mind are Wing and the active posters on her thread. I know there are others I have come across as well.)

    Been reading a good motivational book and looking forward to officially CBT going first of October as scheduled. Anyone have great experience with the CBT as portrayed in research studies?
    Hi Cross..
    Ok, it's a little after 5am here, and I'm wide awake.
    In a few hours, I have to go wrestle at what I call the zoo, my office.
    My point is, you find the strength. And when you feel weak, you summon the strength. And when it doesn't come, you drag it back by the hair and do everything possible to see your aim through.
    I understand about the feelings. With sub, and having been on them so long, I wouldn't be surprised if those feelings are akin to the ones we all feel right at the cusp of stopping our DOC.
    Like a last-ditch effort on the part of opiates to seduce us back. And remember, even though it doesn't feel like it, subs are an opiate.
    Concerning cognitive behavioural therapy. It's a merging of two established psychological theories. In a nutshell: we don't only smile because we're happy; we smile to BECOME happy. It's an outside-in approach, whereas you behave the way you want to feel. And it works.
    I recommend you see a therapist, I assure you it can only help.
    After my last sub taper two years ago, I went to therapy for about a year and a half, and it did wonders.

    But for now, don't let your mind trip you up.
    This is the fight of your lifetime, and it's been 5 years in the making.
    You were successful on sub only because you finally weren't high again.
    Life without subs is way, waaaayyy more productive and competent.
    You're going to surprise yourself.
    Just take this one day at a time. Don't start projecting into the future, or imagining possible scenarios.
    Right now, your whole entire focus should be on ridding yourself from your very last crutch.

    It's time to soar, Cross :-)
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  14. #14
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hi Wing,

    Very much appreciated. Very much. This is tough, but as I see the words "productive" and "competent" in your post, a ding went off. Looking back at some of the accomplishments, I am reminded of how I worked my ass off to reach my goals, which of course we all do. BUT, I remember at times telling myself that I was working three times harder than necessary and remember saying "it has to be the subs just clouding my mind." I would feel good on the subs, but off and on over the years I remember being like: "DUDE, it's obvious you would be so much further in life had you stopped the subutex years ago because all you do is just make yourself work harder than neccessary and tire yourself out.You don't need the sub and You KNOW you don't need it or want it." I tend to keep forgetting this.... This thread is gonna be helpful as I continue. No wonder why therapists say to keep journals.

    You're right, it's time to live in the now, but damn its tough shxx mentally after 5 years. Your last post really helped. It has taken awhile to get down to the .5, but it is what it is. I actually just started seeing a really great, reputable therapist recently. Unfortunately, the wait list to get in was so long, but it finally came. It has been one appointment so far, but a long, very informative and encouraging one at that. Next appointment, first of October, is to begin CBT since the first one was just kind of like "orientation" get it all out session.

    I just gotta keep coming back to re-read this. Definitely staying strong and by no means am I worried about going up past .5 - just not gonna happen. Come too far. It's just the mental attitude and emotions all coming out towards the end here, but I know I'll get through. I truly believe everything happens for a reason and I just can't forget that either.

    After all, that little pill doesn't have the brain, I do.

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    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Cross using this as a journal is a great idea. You are young, bright and motivated, and have the one thing we cannot give you "want to". You have to put recovery ahead of everything in your life except your God. If not it will take everything away from you.
    The CBT works I used it in my practice a lot. Seeing a therapist is good. Remember we have faith you can do this, if it didn't get better none of us would still be clean/sober. You hang tight girl ,yes it is hard to begin with but it becomes second nature after a while you can do this Dog
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  16. #16
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfdog View Post
    Cross using this as a journal is a great idea. You are young, bright and motivated, and have the one thing we cannot give you "want to". You have to put recovery ahead of everything in your life except your God. If not it will take everything away from you.
    The CBT works I used it in my practice a lot. Seeing a therapist is good. Remember we have faith you can do this, if it didn't get better none of us would still be clean/sober. You hang tight girl ,yes it is hard to begin with but it becomes second nature after a while you can do this Dog
    Thanks, Dog. Your words are wonderful to hear. I am a Christian, always have been, pray daily/nightly. I know this isn't a religion forum, but God does do wonders - and in the MOST mysterious ways. Feeling better today. CBT is a must for me and it feels great to hear it not only works, but worked for you.

    I must share this. MUST. I am dead serious when I say I have watched this multiple times today. It really gets my emotions going, but it a very, very, very good way. Winged Eagle, it's a must listen/watch.

    "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me...... and I'm feeling Gooooooood."


    Get's me feeling good immediately. Seriously think I am gonna watch this at the beginning of everyday...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU_dBDccruI

    If you just want the song, skip to 1:28.....but the back story is great too.
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  17. #17
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Cross, I'm new to posting to these forums as well, but have been a lurker for some time lol. I've been doing my own taper, and I am also down to 0.5 mg/day (twice a day). Been on this dose now for for 2 days. I plan to make my jump close to around same time as you (September 25th), and I just wanted to let you know you aren't alone in this, and I wish you luck and I hope the jump goes good. Clean life has to better than this. Fight those mental demons and I'll be thinking about you pal.

  18. #18
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey DrugFreeSeptember2012 (Your close!)

    Good to hear from you. Went through your thread and your short time on sub is awesome. You're gonna dominate these next few weeks. When those down days hit at these lower doses, which they will, throw on music and go for a walk.

    On the good days, do everything you can to remember what you are feeling. Today, I was walking through the city on a sunny day and listening to music telling myself how great life is truly. May seem weird, but things looked like they were in HD (High Definition). The trees, peoples faces, buildings, everything. I swear things are looking so much more clear than in years - and my sense of smell is getting better. Even though still on the sub, every several days/week I feel like the brain is healing and these little things get better. Of course it is still far from where it will be and I have a ways to go, but big deal. I am alive. I am alive. I...am...alive. As my intelligent friends on this forum point out: don't project into the future and focus on the now. If we do think about the next minute, hour, day, or week, let's keep it positive. Deal? A negative thought comes, we flip it off, laugh at it, and get the positive thoughts flowing. I used to be soooooooo bad at this, but I am definitley getting better. I used think it was all BS, but it just can't be. Those that believe it is, are not doing it correctly...at all. I've been reading quite a bit about it lately.

    On those good days, tell yourself over, and over, and over again how amazing you are feeling and how more amazing you will feel when you are drug free. Hell, take a picture of yourself when in that mood because your face expression will say it all. When your down on another day, look at that picture and it will bring back all the positive feelings and your brain will start firing up those natural feel good emotions......Not sure where I just pulled that advice from, but hey, what the hell, I may have to just give that advice a shot today. They say a Picture says a thousand words, so why can't those happy, positive pictures of ourselves stimulate a thousand positive words through our mind when we are down in the pits?

    Clean life is better than this. Absolutely. Absolutely.

    God Bless my friend. Keep me updated. We've got this! Lot's of success, and more importantly, happiness, lies ahead.

    Note: Sorry for the length of my thread and each of the posts. I realize my posts can be a bit more lengthy than others and I am sure it turns some readers away or others may be like "whoooaaa pal, easy up on the writing. Chill it down a notch, would ya??" Well, it's not gonna happen. Doing what I gotta do right now and for some reason, this is it. Feels good. More I get out there now, the more I have to refer back to later down the road.
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  19. #19
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    I'm with you Cross! That's a deal! I'm having one of the blah' kinda days, but the other day, I was out walking around, and it was about 70 degrees, and someone was burning some wood, and it gave me a wonderful feeling lol. It reminded me of simpler times and just gave me that really good feeling. I guess it reminded me of something good. I was doing exactly what you said though lol. I was telling myself how good I was feeling, and to not forget this feeling, and to kind of put it in my back pocket, b/c times are coming where I am going to need it. I have 2 dogs, so I have a feeling I will be walking them a lot soon lol.

    We got this! I look forward putting that little line on the bottom of my screen that says, "Drug free since 09/25/12" lol. I'm sure we will have some tough times ahead, but it will be for the better. We've got to pay the piper sometime for our actions lol. I don't know about you, but I'm just looking forward to not have to plan my whole life around making sure I have enough pills/subs/whatever! I too have a wonderful family and a wonderful job, but pretty much no one knows about what I have been up to since 2003. My wife knows and a friend of mine who I gave my pills to, and thats it. I'm just sick of having to say I am getting the flu at work lol. I simply c.a.n. n.o.t. w.a.i.t. to be completely drug free.

    Stay strong Cross!!
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  20. #20
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Seeing you guys encourage each other like this does my heart good :-)

    Cross, I can't decide which of your posts are my favorite. Basically, I'm saying post, post long, post short, we're reading. But, as you yourself mentioned, this is about YOU. And I LOVE how that conveys, clearly, your determination to rise above the hurdles and challenge life.
    Your attitude is going to be your biggest ????nal in the coming few weeks. If you must project, project strength and positivity.
    I'm really, really proud of your efforts, by the way. Real good job. You're acing this!

    Painkillerfree, bravo! And keep pushing forward, it's awesome to witness, and even better to see how you support each other.
    Somehow, many of us going through detox end up with a partner in crime :-)
    Get strength from each other. Two hands are always better than one.

    Just a small reminder to you both:
    Drop by 25% increments, not more. This doesn't have to hurt you that bad.
    It will only mean a few days more, so don't rush it, do it right.
    Respect to you both.

    P.S. Cross, I will watch your link once I figure out what's wrong with the internet today, not loading links recently.

  21. #21
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks WE!! Your words mean alot to me. Especially right now lol. Feeling a little grumpy today . My wife has been wonderful. Figured I would go relax in the tub and kind of get away from it all. I have found that running has been a great way to feel good a little. Put some angry music on and run (if I put something sad on, I want to cry like a dang schoolgirl lol. Kind of emotional during all this). Anyway, thought I would check in on u Cross and tell WE thank u for the kind words and great advice about the taper. Anyway, until next time
    winged eagle likes this.

  22. #22
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    "Note: Sorry for the length of my thread and each of the posts. I realize my posts can be a bit more lengthy than others and I am sure it turns some readers away or others may be like "whoooaaa pal, easy up on the writing. Chill it down a notch, would ya??" Well, it's not gonna happen. Doing what I gotta do right now and for some reason, this is it. Feels good. More I get out there now, the more I have to refer back to later down the road."

    No need to be sorry, No need to chill it. WORD

  23. #23
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Cross, just thought I would check in on you. How are you feeling today? I had a pretty grouchy night last night, but I woke up today not feeling grouchy, but just a little blah. I also wanted to comment on my vitamin/supplement routine while going through this, and maybe there will be something there to help you out with some of the symptoms of w/d. Like many very smart people say on here, treat the symptoms. So, here goes:

    Liquid Multivitamin "Balanced Essentials" (person preference to a pill form)
    Vitamin B-6
    Potassium
    Magnesium/Malic Acid (this is for the "brain zaps" b/c not only did I enjoy my Norco, I also had a VERY BAD Tramadol habit). I must say, this helped me more with the "brain zaps" than I could have ever imagined. I did some research into what people took when they got the "brain zaps" from coming off of antidepressants, and it worked wonders.

    Fish Oil
    Bee Pollen (helps with the energy, plus I could stand to lose a few lb.'s lol)
    5-HTP (helps with the moody blues)
    L-Tyrosine
    Hylands Restful Legs at night (actually works pretty good. can still feel some of the creepy crawlies, but not as bad)

    I also take a supplement called Male Pro, but thats for a WHOLE OTHER set of problems . Mainly infertility.

    I spread my supplements throughout the day b/c my liquid multivitamin does have some stuff in it that I take in pill form, so I don't want to take to much.

    Anyway, I thought I would share what helps me with the hopes that it would help you. I hope you are hanging in there Cross. Give me an update when you get a chance to make sure you are doing ok if you don't mind. Later Gators!

  24. #24
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey PainKillerFree, iloerose, and Winged Eagle:

    Sincerely appreciate the posts. Really, really do. Always feel free to chime in. I always get something great out of it no matter what the message says. Hell, even if you need to give me a virtual slap, do it. Doesn't bother me one bit as I am "smart" enough to know it can be, and is, needed at times. It is welcomed. You won't need to worry about me taking it the wrong way and/or giving a response trying to "argue" or "prove" anything. I like to think I am capable of letting things sink in, analyze them, and provide an appropriate response no matter what the message contains. iloerose, thanks for confirmation on my note. Feels good. I am starting to like the idea of an online journal versus an offline one. There truly is value in it.

    Doing well on this end. PainKillerFree, thank you so much for sharing the supplements. Really helpful to have that list and see how they are helping you, and how they can be helpful for me. I have some of those going right now, but will look into the others for sure. So glad to hear you are staying strong as well and taking strong hold of those positive thoughts. Put them suckers in your pocket. I have been finding those to be much more helpful in life than a pocket with drugs. Next time the negativity comes about, reach in your pocket and pull one out. Hell, I might even start carrying around a thing of tic tacs and treat them as my positive thoughts. Pop a positive thought when I am in the blues or need a lift. Just gotta train the mind to correlate a positive thought with a tic tac. All it takes is time and doing it enough times to make it habitual. (Maybe pick up a sugar fee version...) Hhhhmmmmm weird and corny, but what the hell. Better than popping a pill....right?

    This weekend was great. Got together with a group of friends friday and had a good time. I was thinking how strange it really is that no-one knows I am, or have been, on subutex. But oh well, right? So what. I have been in a new city for several years as I took advantage of a great opportunity. Packed my bags and made the move. I often wonder what it would have been like if I would have just bit the bullet and stopped subutex upon arriving in the new city as opposed to transferring to a new clinic, but gotta stop those thoughts. Everything happens for a reason.

    Saturday was a good day. However, boredom is and always has been a trigger as it commonly is for people. Just laying around my place isn't a good thing, which I have known for quite some time. I like to think I have good control over it now, but I am fully aware that the control is going to have to get better as I continue tapering and eventually make the jump. It WILL get harder, I know. But I say bring it on. Over the last month or so, it has gotten easier to control - or I like to think so. I just know that when boredom hits, I do several things:

    - Look around and thank God for everything I have and remind myself of all the positives going on in life. Can be difficult at times because certain thoughts pop up: "you've been on sub for awhile and many great things have happened." But, I continue to counteract that thought with two things: "Everything happens for a reason. Continue on with the taper as you have been working on for sooo long because it is meant to be." "Remember when you would always think of how the subs were actually holding you back??? Yeah, don't forget that." And actually a new one that I am working on thanks to the reminders of my friends on here: "Stay in the here and now." When I project forward, I am only envisioning reaching new levels of success and happiness as a drug free individual.

    - Get out of the place and do something. Been loving my walks with music. Gym has been great too, although I haven't been as dedicated as I should. I get my walks in so that helps, but those days I do go to the gym help a whoooooole lot more.

    - When I am at home, I have found working on a jigsaw puzzle DOES WONDERS. No, I am not a 74 year old kicking back in my recliner taking a snooze in between watching the history channel and doing a puzzle. Oh, but I will one day, drug free. Seriously, a jigsaw puzzle does several things: keeps my mind focused on finding that annoying awkward shaped piece, makes time flllyyyyyyyyy by, and really helps just zone out on physical and mental symptoms. Oh man, but having an addictive personality can be dangerous, a good dangerous. You won't believe how attached you can get. Plus, for people with families, it can be a great "project" to work on over time. It helps with bonding time and provides for a positive team project with a fun, enjoyable goal. I am, however, working on it by myself, but I am so content with that little jumble of cardboard. Even just 20 minutes a day is great. A nice little brain break.

    No joke, highly recommend a jigsaw puzzle - a 1,000 piece one with a little challenge. Might drive some people nuts, but it has been amazingly helpful for me. Talk about a stress reliever too. Well, switches my stress from a degree of 10, which equates to thinking about nuisances with work or life matters, to a 3, which equates to "where in the HELL is that piece!!!!" The 3 might piss some people off, but I would take a 3 over a 10 any day of the week. The 3 just ignites my determination and motivation. Yeah, pretty funny saying that for putting together a pile of cardboard pieces, but I do believe it is not just helping my brain heal, it is training my brain...if that makes sense.

    - Get on here, read, and post. Would have yesterday but I made myself get busy with the things above before kicking back and watching movies. I will say it is crazy how the emotions can be at times. Cry at a little girl losing her balloon??? Didn't happen, but not too far off from how the smallest things stir those emotions? haha. I know people can relate.

    I am definitely hanging in there. The drop to .375 is tomorrow...staying positive.

  25. #25
    shybaybe2003 is offline Senior Member
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    i wish i would have thought of the jigsaw puzzle thing when i was detoxing last year. That is a very good idea. Keep on moving forward, your doing it!
    Clean and Sober as of 4-25-2011

  26. #26
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shybaybe2003 View Post
    i wish i would have thought of the jigsaw puzzle thing when i was detoxing last year. That is a very good idea. Keep on moving forward, your doing it!
    Thanks, Shybaybe2003. Really appreciate it. Yes, jigsaw is amazing!! Helps teach patience too. Highly recommend for anyone detoxing/tapering. I love turning to movies and gym too, but let's face it, gym can be tough at times even though it really seems to be the best thing both mentally and physically. But if I just can't make it, I truly believe a puzzle is a great option. Better than movies as it diverts the mind and you can get much more focused. Easier for that mind to wander when watching movies. (At least this has been my experience) I'm sure video games help people too, but those that don't play, a puzzle may help. A few pushups in between looking for that annoying piece is great too. Only have done that a couple times, but it seemed to calm me down some.

    That is awesome you have been clean and sober since April 2011. Amazing. I'm very much looking forward to it. Feeling amazing? I haven't been through your thread yet, but would love to hear how you feel.

    Cheers

  27. #27
    shybaybe2003 is offline Senior Member
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    I dont have one particular thread, just a bunch of short threads that i am kind of shamed of now, but as an addict i was very close to checking out. Still an addict, but in recovery. Do I feel amazing now that i am a year and a half clean? Yes and NO. I am about as mentally stable as I am gonna get LOL, but I still have bad days. I guess that is what we call life. BUT what is amazing is i would rather chop off my legs and be in a wheelchair then to EVER go back to my drugged up f*kd up life. So yeah, The clean life is pretty good. I no longer feel guilty about things related to my using or worry about do i have enough pills, blah blah. yup, the clean life is most definitely the way to go!
    Clean and Sober as of 4-25-2011

  28. #28
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Shybaybe2003,

    Good to hear the clean life is going well. I am looking forward to it and will be tested these next two weeks, but it is allllll for the better.

    Didn't sleep much last night. It was strange. My mind kept going back and forth between scared and that "excited for a fun vacation" next day feeling. I knew it was going to be the next step towards ending a long journey that I have been wanting for awhile. I actually had more "excited" thoughts than negative, which have been different from previous reductions....strange, yet great. However, stress did hit when I "woke" up though. Nothing to mention about the other physical symptoms, too mild and nothing I can't handle. Minor body movement and my toes/feet still like to bounce around a lot, but really, really isn't bothersome. The minor sweats have been off and on the last couple weeks, but more off than on. And again, sooooo minor. Really not sure if it's because of the sloooowwww taper that has helped or my body is just different or I will really just start to pay at the next reduction. Still amazes me it has been 5 years. BUT, I have been on the lowest doses EVER in that time and today will be another milestone. THAT feels good.

    Keep thinking about those sporadic mornings where I felt like throwing up though. I have mainly attributed it to being stress since the mornings were spread out over the couple weeks on .5. Gotta prepare myself because I would be stupid not to expect it again on the next reduction. But hey, gotta do what you gotta do.

    PainkillerFree, if you're still reading, how are you feeling? I know you have been doing a much quicker taper than me. Sometimes I wonder if I should have just followed Roberts plan to a T instead of prolonging the reduction period, but I have been doing my best to listen to my body. Five years is a looonnnggg time too. I know people will say I should have followed it EXACTLY as indicated in so many threads, but it is what it is. So if someone else ever comes across this, please note that this is my personal experience and a journal. Maybe it was or wasn't the right way to go considering all the success on the Robert method, but Im not worried about that at the moment (after I go it off my chest. )

    Plan:

    Monday 17 - 24th: .375
    24th - 1: .25
    Oct 1: JUMP, maybe skip. Gonna listen to my body and the advice of friends.

    I went 3 weeks at .5 and am aware the next two reductions are only a week in length, but why not give it a shot?? Yes, I am anxious to get off, but if I have to adjust, I will. But I am thinking that since I have been at .5 for so long and than a week at these smaller doses will be okay... We shall see...

  29. #29
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Cross, I'd been meaning to post to you all day (it's night now here in Beirut), but kinda got dragged into something.
    Anyway, just wanted to wish you a Happy .375mg Day!
    You're doing it, and you're doing it in style :-D

    Your plan above sounds very reasonable to me. However, I would definitely recommend a skipping process, especially since you've been on sub for longer than usual. It's imperative, because the half life is soooo long. You need it to catch up with itself.
    But like you said, worse comes to worse you can always hop back on and taper further and skip.
    I know you're excited to be done with it. But it took you this long to get here, why rush getting out? Do it right, and you'll only need to do it once.

    Again, post, post often. You'll see how this forum is an incredible support system, and there's nothing we love more than the determination to say goodbye to opiates and hello to life :-D
    Last edited by winged eagle; 09-17-2012 at 12:13 PM.

  30. #30
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Thanks Wing, really appreciate it. VERY helpful to have advice on the these final stages. Really wanted to be off Oct. 1 completely, but if I gotta skip, I gotta skip. This is one deadline that can be pushed a little.

    This forum really has been so helpful. Seriously. Blows my mind. Not just for the therapeutic benefits of journaling, but since I am in the dark in terms of who knows about me being on subutex, it makes me feel held accountable for my plan - in a good way. The support has been great and going back through and reading my "journal" has been soooo helpful.

    Been following your thread as well and you are dominating it! Really, really are. Honestly is great inspiration for me. Thank you.
    winged eagle and sdonna68 like this.

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