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Always been a silent reader, on a sub taper, and thank you people
  1. #61
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Angel, deep breaths..
    Look, I totally understand what you're going through. I had a nightmare experience with subs a few years ago, jumped off at what my bf reminded just the other day was over 10mg (I thought it was 2, I was wrong).
    I was basically crippled and couldn't walk.
    BUT, that didn't stop me from trying again, this time armed with the correct information. We have a taper plan here, but in your case, and having been on sub for so long, I'd recommend at least a week at each dose before dropping once more. And never drop more than 25% at a time.
    I'll explain: As I've gathered from the above, you're now at .5mg. If you're stable at this dose, drop to .333mg, or close enough. Round up, don't round down. Stay on that dose until you'rr level and ready to drop again.
    The guys on this thread are in the same predicament, so you are not alone.
    Anyway, once you're stable, drop then to .25mg and level off. Stay on that dose till you're comfortable.
    At this point, you can either reduce another 25% or do the skipping process I explained previously.

    There IS a way off sub. It's not an evil drug. In fact, it's quite useful when UTILISED CORRECTLY.
    Unfortunately, you can't rely on either their helpline or doctors. They're clueless and in it for the money.

    You can do this. Don't panic.
    I've been there, countless others have been there and succeeded.
    Of course you're going to feel some stuff, but it shouldn't be anything drastic. But this is a taper, not a magic bullet. We have to pay the piper..
    If you really want off, you'll get off :-)
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  2. #62
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Good job, Joe!

    And P.S. I'm a girl.
    It's cool. 95% of people online think I'm male :-D
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  3. #63
    Angelcake1 is offline New Member
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    OK, I think I get it. So now I'm taking a 2 mg. suboxone film, and cutting it into 4 pieces. I take 1 piece a day. Should I stop yet? I know I'll feel some discomfort no matter what, but NOT like I did when I had to go to the hospital! I wanted to DIE! I couldn't believe how SICK I was. It's getting very difficult cutting the 2 mg. suboxone film into 4 pieces. How can I cut it into 6 pieces? Or should I start "skipping" days? I HATE that I'm going through this. Will it EVER END??

  4. #64
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Angel, I really can't type everything again.
    Re-read what I wrote. Carefully. Until you understand. I was clear :-)
    Again, please stop panicking.
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  5. #65
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by winged eagle View Post
    Good job, Joe!

    And P.S. I'm a girl.
    It's cool. 95% of people online think I'm male :-D
    Ha!! Sorry about that winged lol. That's what I get for assuming lol. Thanks for the correction
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  6. #66
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Another Journal Entry....

    Hey Wing, Joe, and all my friends out there,

    You understand me completely. We must be related. Haha. We are incredibly similar in everything you posted previously. From the sports to the reading to the fitness club to the Bible (grew up attending church weekly). BUT, not the dancing. I wasn't blessed with the twinkle toes nor have I ever had interest in a tutu. That and I am a straight male. (I guess more and more might be shared about me as I progress in the next few weeks. I can even see myself not caring who knows about my "secret" in the real world once I dominate this beast. I like to think it will only make me stronger. Weird how that is. Feels good though.)

    Instead of dance, I did everything you did except replace the dance with chess...yep, chess. How nerdy is that! Yes, a dedicated sports athlete that plays chess. HA. Still get ???? to this day from all my friends. I love it. I guess I just don't fit the "look" of someone they see as a chess player. Everyone either laughs their A** off or doesn't believe me when they hear. I was a nerdy little chess whiz growing up winning state championship year after year and even placed in the top 20 at my first national tournament (United States) out of thousands of people aged 5-18 (or grades K - 12 if you're familiar with the U.S. school system). I was 9 years old but played all ages because of my ranking. This cracks me up that I am sharing this.

    As I wrote that, I just had a flashback about another tournament I was in with nerds aged 6 and up. No age limit. Your ranking determined who you played. With a higher ranking, I was matched up to a guy in his 20's. I think 20's. I just remember he was old and big. He could have been an older looking teenager (17 or 18) though. I was only 9 or 10 years old at this tournament. Anyways, I almost let this "20 year old" win because I saw tears coming down his eyes and he was moving very uncomfortably. It was obvious he was very upset. Seriously, a 20 year old CRYING when playing chess? Honestly, believe it or not, no joke. And I think I have problems. HA, poor guy. Anyways, I have always had a big heart, especially as a little kid, so I distinctly remember giving up a few bad moves on purpose, but then those tears of his turned into a grin. Ohhhh man. Bad move buddy, a good chess player doesn't just look at the board and pieces, they study your face, your body language, clothes, shoes, everything. Even at a young age kids can tell when their being fooled. He walked away 5 minutes later and had to tell his friends he lost to THAT little kid over there whose feet didn't touch the floor when sitting down in the chair. Ahhhh, the good times.

    Joe, I successfully made it yesterday without an afternoon dose. Yeaaahhhh budddyyyy!!! Congrats on you too my friend!!!! I am SO glad you did it too because when it got to a point last night I KNEW I wasn't going to take a sliver, I was thinking of you and hoping you were doing the same.

    BUSY. BUSY. BUSY really is the key. I got home around 9 or so last night and was actually pretty tired. But as soon as I sat down on the couch the body movement started and the mental cravings hit, or maybe it was the mental cravings causing the body movement. Either way, while incredibly annoying, they were Very mild physical symptoms. Hot flashes here and there, but nothing to write about at all. I'm still expecting it to get worse because at times it just doesn't seem right. Everything I have read in the past has me expecting much more. Yes, I know we are all different, but I am still waiting. I have always been able to take physical things well though. mental is a different story. Maybe the exercise and supplements are to thank?? I did, however, have a little difficulty falling asleep (movement and just a lot of thinking) and woke up multiple times in the night, but again, so what, it's expected and is what it is. Really not complaining about it at all. A little annoying and bothersome, but that's when you pray and just focus on breathing and nothing else.

    Fatigued again today, but whatever. Might take another 5 hour energy. I'm having memories coming back to me every now and then. Some good, some bad, and some get the real panic going with the heart racing a hundred miles an hour. But it's those good ones I am focusing on. I have actually sent a few texts to some friends about a funny thing that happened YEARS ago. Feels good writing those good memories or sharing them with people. It seems to be keeping my brain in the "positive zone". Strange how just about all the positive memories are from pre-sub (and oxycontin) use.

    Let's see how today goes. BUT DAMN it feels soooo good to know I took my smallest dose of subutex yesterday than I have in FIVE EFFIN YEARS!!!! Trying to stay grounded because we've still got a long war ahead. But let's just keep thinking and projecting the positive. Doing everything I can to stay away from the negative (even on here) and it seems to be working. But busy is key. No plans scheduled for tonight so I am going to get something in the books.

    Joe, we've got this man. It really is all in the head. Really.

    Keep me updated my friend.

    Cheers!
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  7. #67
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Angelcake,

    Follow Winged Eagles' advice and you will do great. TONS of posts throughout this forum cover what you are looking for. Just search and you will very easily come across the method from Robert_325 on this site - although Wing has already provided the info from his method that should get you going through to the end just fine.

    If you have read some of my posts you might see I leave out, or vaguely mention, the physical symptoms. That is because for me personally, while very annoying and present, I can handle them as long as I do what I know I have to do. If they get unbearable then I will journal it, but for now my attention is elsewhere. You will come across the physical symptoms on many other threads all throughout the forum and even on Google. There are numerous, extremely helpful threads that provide detail and give remedies to overcome the discomfort and pain.

    I have found journaling to be liberating and a great tool in my journey. (Uses up some of the free time I have due to my profession too. It's a weird/unusual schedule). I am fully aware my posts are very long and I used to apologize for it, but not any more since I am doing this for me. Awesome if it helps others, but you gotta do what you gotta do to accomplish your goal. So post or journal, whatever it takes. You are more than welcome to post here anytime. It doesn't bother me one bit. I love my friends on this thread that have been posting. They play a huge part in my journey. You have no idea! If you do chose a journal route similar to what I am doing, which means long and elaborative, you might find doing your own thread to be very therapeutic. I never would have thought it to play the role it is playing. I open a up a little more each time and it feels great.

    I even just sent an e-mail via "Contact Us" to Drugs.com recommending the addition of a journal/diary section like "Record Your Journey", or something corny like that, just in case a thread like mine would be more appropriately placed in a section like that....I don't know.... I'm still new, but I think a separate journal section below "Need to Talk" with a few additional features might be helpful to people. Like the ability to hide certain posts here and there for when you would like to get more personal and only want to share with certain people on here - or even for yourself. I would love it in "Need to Talk", along with other features I have thought about. But, Drugs.com is limited to what they can do based on the backend structure of their site.

    Regardless, the "Need to Talk" definitely takes on the characteristics of an online journal and is an amazing place. You'll discover that soon if you haven't already. Do whatever you gotta do to accomplish your goal and don't let any one else get in your way. EXCERCISE and stay BUSY!

    God bless my friend and good luck.
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  8. #68
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    Good post Cross! Couldn't agree with you more.

    I am having a tough night. I work an afternoon shift, so I try to exercise before and after, but during gets tough sometimes. And tonight has been incredibly frustrating, causing me to have a real tough time of it. I manage people, and all I want to do is close the door and put my fist through the wall lol. Its been that kind of night It is SO hard to manage these people while going through this. Just a frustrating night all together. The depression is hitting a little, but nothing that makes me want to use or anything. Just venting I guess. Anyway, just thought I would catalog how I feel. Later!

    Joe

  9. #69
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey Joe,

    Stay strong my friend! Vent, get it out. I know that depression and feeling you have right now. I totally get it. Also completely understand how it is to manage people while going through this, let alone working with people. That's why Wing just blows my mind how strong she is. I've had several problems with a business partner. While I blamed it on him, deep down I knew it had to be me....still hard as hell to admit that, but I know my emotions aren't on par right now.

    Below is something I used to laugh at when told to do. Always shrugged it off. Nope, don't shrug it off anymore. That's for damn sure.

    Take 5 minutes, close that door, close your eyes, and take deep breathes for 5 full minutes. Clear the mind and reset yourself. Your brain (computer) is overloaded right now and needs a soft little reset. My mind wanders like crazy so I found an app called Relax Lite on my phone (it's free). Yeah, just one of thousands of useless apps, or so I thought until I tried it. It's good for mind wanderers like me and maybe you too. I watch that stupid little screen show me how to breath deeply for a couple minutes. Sounds funny, feels childish, but it works. Never thought I needed a little tech device to teach me to zone out and breathe deeply. Of course books/religion have taught this and have for thousands of years. It's not a secret and never has been. People just shrug it off. Anyways, it really gets me zoned in on the little dial showing me how long I should inhale and exhale. Does it for a couple minutes and you zone in on that little screen and watch the dial instead of the thoughts bothering you. After you do this for a couple minutes, you WILL be relaxed and reset. I promise. If your mind does wander and can't zone out on the screen, just keep it positive. The depression and frustration you are experiencing is NOTHING and will pass. Put things into perspective and/or think about all the amazing things you have going on in your life right now:

    A family (=love)
    A job (=financial gain and something millions do not have right now)
    Friends (=support, humor, fun, love. Think of some funny, crazy a** thing you did with your friends (drug-free, of course, if possible.)
    And most importantly, sobriety is in the VERY NEAR FUTURE. Just facing something real right now. Think of it as a good exercise your going through. You're re-learning control of emotions.

    You go this man. Really do!

    If that fails, which it shouldn't, or you just need a good laugh and there is someone in particular bothering you at work, and you manage them, then tell them they HAVE to tell you a good joke or show you a funny YouTube video ASAP.....or they're fired. No, not a joke a little kid can hear, but a joke that would get you kicked out of church. (Disclaimer: Only works if you manage them directly and if it's in an office/work environment/culture that you know it wouldn't create problems. I don't condone doing anything to get kicked out of church either. )

    Or, get the music going. Listen to the one song that you know can relax you, pump you up, or get whatever emotion you need right now.

    Ready, Go!

    But don't fire one, really. Unless that joke is just lame as hell.
    Last edited by Crossifixio; 09-20-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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  10. #70
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Chess?
    Hahahaha... Extended family champ here. And I mean uncles, aunts, parents, brothers, cousins, second cousins..
    The only person who came close was my younger brother, just a year younger, but booooyyyy was he a sore loser. After one round, he was so upset I won, he chased me to my bedroom, and when he couldn't get through the door, he tried the window lol..
    Wow, memories..
    Yup, always loved chess. So much balance in that game. And it gave me an invaluable lesson as a child.. Look ahead, be prepared for any eventuality.. Get into the mind of the other.. Love it.

    Cross, and Joe, you guys are really doing great. So proud of you. It takes guts and perseverance to do what you're doing. As you've gathered, many like you come on here, panicking, but unable to listen, or too afraid to even try. They prefer to just freak out.
    What you guys are doing, especially after being on this substance for years, is immensely impressive, and I just wanted to point that out.
    I kinda wish I could be on the same taper with you guys now lol.. Took my last dose today, so starting tomorrow = day one clean :-)
    You're right behind me, though, so I'll be at the finish line, all of us will be at the finish line waving you in. Streamers, confetti, yay!

    Keep at it, boys.
    You rock.

  11. #71
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Cross and W.E.! Did another day with only one dose. Not going to lie, it was hard as hell. At one point last night, my stress level went so high, which sent my anxiety up with it. I have to say, I simply couldn't have done it without your words yesterday Cross. I shut my office door, took a few breaths, turned the lights out, and just relaxed for a few minutes. It helped a lot. And I truly thank you for that. When you type those things, you never know if what you are typing would help someone, even if its only being typed for your own sense of well being. And they helped me. So thank you for that.

    How are you feeling today Cross? Are you doing ok at the one dose a day thing? I hope all is going well for you.

    Last dose today W.E.??? That is FANTASTIC! I'm very happy for you, and I look forward to joining that club very soon. I truly hope it goes as easy as possible for you. You get what you give, and you give a lot to the people here. Like I said before, you never know what your words will mean to somebody, and your words mean a lot.

    Soooo, here's hoping things go good today for everyone, and we are one day closer to a clean life. Cross, let me know how you feel when you get a chance. One day at a time my friend!!
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  12. #72
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey Joe,

    Congrats Man!!!! Huge accomplishment not taking a dose when in the heat of the anxiety and depression. So glad the words helped. Taking a little break, even just 5 minutes I have noticed to be a huge help. I am the type that doubts things until I try it, but then can get hooked after trying it. Yep, can be a damn good thing, but obviously a bad thing too.

    Today is a little tougher on me, but I did make it through yesterday with the single dose. VERY Happy about that as well. Woke up many times again, but knowing this is something I want makes it not too bad. I can manage. Another day of fatigue, but again expected. Trying to stay busy with work I gotta do. Finding it a little hard to focus on work things right now and would rather be elsewhere, but it's what I have to do right now. Keeping the goal in sight and reminding myself of certain things is a big help. Going to be working on the computer for awhile then off to get busy. Gotta still get a new puzzle and make it to the gym for some good ol' exercise. Moving a bit slower, but whatever.

    DUDE! We are close. Exciting, a little scary, and of course tough but a good tough. Something we need to feel whether we like it or not. (At least I keep telling myself this).

    Keep me posted.

    And Wing,

    Love that you have the chess in the blood too. Haha. There can be some cool nerds out there, right? Right? Wishing you all the best on this last stage for you. I know you can, and will do it. Stay busy, give the ol' therapist ring (can't remember if you have yet or not.) It helped last time so why not again this time? Have some good things waiting for us at the finish line. We cross it feeling a little sluggish and a little skinnier from a weaker appetite, but hey, at least we WILL cross it.
    Last edited by Crossifixio; 09-21-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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  13. #73
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    How are you doing today Cross? I hope this message finds you well. Did you do ok last night? We're you able to stay busy? It's kind of funny, I never met you but I was thinking last night that I didn't want to fail at this bc I didn't want to let you down. Weird right?? Anyway, I'm getting ready to run out but I wanted to check in on u before I head out. I'll post again later, it let me know how he doing when u get a chance. Keep it up buddy. Clean living is on the horizon.

    Joe

    PS: how are u doing today W.E.? I hope u are doing ok.
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  14. #74
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey Joe,

    I'm doing well, how are you? I did great last night, although I have been experiencing back pain now and it really seems to come out when I am laying down. Not sure if it is the gym, my body readjusting, or my bed, but it is there. No big deal though at all, I can manage just fine with it.

    I constantly think the same as you. The last thing I want to do is let you or anyone else down. So crazy how that feeling comes from an online forum, but it is a blessing, I must say. Always on the mind.

    The last couple days I have been thinking of doing a skip a little earlier than anticipated. I fully believe the long taper I have been doing has been benefiting me, but at this small of a dose I almost feel I am doing myself injustice by prolonging it any longer. I feel prepared for a skip - at least a go at it. But I am not going to make a decision just yet. Gonna ride out the weekend and take another look at the plan on Monday.

    Hope you and everyone else is having a great weekend!

  15. #75
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Cross! Glad to hear you are doing ok. I hope u have been able to sleep. My legs have been going a little crazy lately lol. I agree with u at this low a dose that I am just putting off the inevitable. I was supposed to jump on the 25th, but today will be my last dose. I am just torturing myself with these super small doses. Heck, today's dose was 0.25mg, so I think I am ready. It's just going to be a psychological nightmare, but I know it can be done. We can't listen to that little voice in our head (addiction) telling us to use. So, I will be waiting for u at the finish line buddy. I'll keep posting on how it's going. I'll be cheering for you pal!

    Joe

  16. #76
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey Joe,

    Sleep is lacking for sure, but it's all part of progress I guess. Friday night was a much better "sleep" than last night. I hear ya on the crazy legs. I can't wait to get my eyes back too, if that makes sense. At times I am seeing more clearly than I have in years, but lately they just look tired and red. The emotions are off, but I keep telling myself they will improve. Deep breathing and turning everything, absolutely everything, into a positive is helping so much. Incredibly difficult to do at first, but it has honestly, without a doubt become easier and easier the more I've been doing it. It is crazy, for sooo many years I've let the negative thoughts just sink in and set up shop in my brain. I analyze the hell out of everything and I now realize I tend to always analyze the negative way more than I should. I leave out the positive and just't don't give it enough attention. Pretty much a battery with all the energy on the "-" and very little on the "+" end.

    As hard as it is, I keep flipping everything negative into a positive perspective. I keep telling myself, "DUDE, seriously, you're reading into this waaaay too much. It's not a big deal!", or "okay, this may be the case, but let's look at the positives". Man it's so hard. Very hard at times, but it has really become habitual now and I do believe it to be helping. So when the road get's tougher this next little bit, we've got to take deep breaths and just flip the negative.

    It is so awesome to know your doing well too. It has been really helpful going back and reading the posts too. If you've been on the .25 for a couple days then I say Go FOR IT! But, this is my first taper so that is just what I am thinking and maybe someone (Wing?) will chime in who has been at this point. But I believe

    You've got this. Just focus on all the positives instead of the negatives.

  17. #77
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Also, I am going to drop to the .25 tomorrow as planned, but will not stay on it for a week. I am going to keep it to 3-4 days and then jump. I really want to jump now, but I've been on for sooooo long that it may be best to do this last drop. I get so excited knowing I will very soon be able to say: "Holy s***, you didn't take any sub today." After YEARS, it's gotta be a good feeling. That's the thought I am holding onto right now. Nothing but positive.

  18. #78
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey guys!
    Ok, you really, really should consider the skipping process. It's imperative, especially with you having been on sub for a longer time than average.
    Cross, you're a strong guy, with the right mental attitude to get through this. Remember, though, not to drop until you're relatively comfortable on the dose you're currently on.
    Joe, a couple of questions:
    Rmind me how long you've been on sub?
    And, when did you drop to .25mg, how many days has it been? I thought you were on .33mg.

    Reason I ask is to reiterate that you should not rush this. You have to remain on a dose long enough to level out. And you have to do a skipping process. Believe me, it's the most important step. You'll deal with a bit of discomfort for a few days instead of weeks if you effectively jump off .33. Even when you go to .25mg, level out, you don't jump, because the skipping process spreads out that dose and when you do stop, it's down to almost nothing. This makes your week one clean a lot more tolerable.
    Think about it. A few extra days, and you need never have to repeat this.
    A few exta days. Don't rush it..
    Last edited by winged eagle; 09-23-2012 at 02:43 PM.
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  19. #79
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey Wing, Yep, you're right. I think the excitement of finally getting so close to being off this is playing a part in my irrational thinking. That and other things.

    The math and logic behind the method makes total sense and I definitely do trust what you are saying, 100%. I even remember going through threads in the past and constantly seeing Robert reiterating that it is crucial they do EXACTLY as he says. So, I am a little embarrassed and really have no excuse here on my end. Been trying to readjust it thinking that it might be best since I have been on sub for sooo long and am trying to quit subutex instead of using subutex to quit something else. Funny that in the past when I read those threads I would be like "seriously, why aren't these people just doing exactly as Robert says?? I don't get it." Hahahahaha, well....hhhhmmmm..."right back at ya Cross!" Just points out I still have an issue with submission. Sometimes I get the: "well, I am different, a leader, and think this will be best..." attitude. The invincibility and, "I'm special" mentality. It can lead to problems.

    You're post, even though it didn't bring it up specifically, helps me realize that I still have to work on these things. Damn it is so good having you here. Truly, truly is. Thank you.

    Joe, just read my big bold "Go For It" as...."Go for it and listen to Wing!"
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  20. #80
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey Joe,

    Just wanted to check in on you and see how things are going.

    Things are going well on this end for the most part. Not the best appetite and mild stomach discomfort again the past two mornings (a couple times throughout the day too), but they are mild and the morning sickness wears off after some vitamins and moving around. I am enjoying the increasing clarity though and focusing on the things I know I should be focusing on, nothing else. Sometimes the clarity opens up to the negative thoughts, but I keep blocking them with positive. Takes a lot of practice, but it seems to be paying off....so far. (Always thought positive thinking was BS, but that is because I wasn't doing it correctly, not even close, until finally giving it a shot this last month or so. Still hard, but I definitely notice it making a difference. Slowly but surely. Google some positive thinking books (lots of them). A year ago i would have laughed and said: "Are you kidding me?! eff that. I'm positive and when I am negative I try to think positive all the time and all it does is piss me off." HA! Crazy how things turn around with a little bit of practice and making it habitual.

    Hope you are doing well budy. I've been a little quieter as i am trying to stay as busy as possible to the point where I am drained by night time.

  21. #81
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    Whats up Cross! Yeah, I'm the same way. I have been kind of buckling down. I took my last dose on Sunday Morning of 0.25mg at 8AM. I just couldn't wait anymore. We are being reorganized at work, and I am up for a promotion, and all this is going down in about 1 1/2 weeks, so I just had to jump. I couldnt be detoxing AND starting a new job. So Im sorry for being away from here the past couple of days. So, notes for the past couple days:

    1. Detoxing sucks!! lol But, I am reaping the benefits of tapering b/c my symptoms are pretty mild compared to going cold turkey (which I tried once, and landed with a big THUD!)
    2. Most common feeling is the pounding of the chest and the rls. Sleep has been hit and miss. I have a couple xanax (0.25mg) to help, and I only took one on Monday. So far, none today.
    3. Exercise is KEY!!! Get out of the house. Walk the dogs, walk around the neighborhood, or walk on the treadmill with the windows open..
    4. Dread the night time, but that too, shall pass.
    5. Music has saved me. Angry music, sad music, happy music. All of it.
    6. Hot bathes and showers have been my respit. Shakey legs, shower time. Cant sleep, hot bath.
    7. Tell everyone you have the flu. They will avoid you like the plague lol.
    8. VITAMINS, VITAMINS, VITAMINS! Couldn't do it without them.

    So, none of these are earth shattering, but just wanted to let you know what i'm going through. I know next week, I am going to be happy I did this. Right now, errrrrr, I'm kind of paying the price for my past problems. But again, they have all been mild. NOTHING compared to c/t. So, Cross, don't worry my friend. You are doing it right. Your perseverance will be rewarded buddy. I just had to jump though. I'll be here waiting on you pal.

    Joe

    PS: Sorry I forgot to answer your earlier question W.E. I've been on subs since July 27th (my last narcotic was July 26th). So my taper was pretty ordinary.

    PSS: Might as well go ahead and put it up. FIRST FULL DAY CLEAN: 09/24/12
    winged eagle and sdonna68 like this.

  22. #82
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey guys!
    Sorry, been totally overloaded with work recently, barely have time on here anymore, but just wanted to pop in for a quick hello and "Congrats, Joe!" on beginning your clean life :-)
    Please drop by and keep us updated on how you're doing!
    And Cross, you're next!

    Ok, swooping back out, but I'll be back later.
    Have a great day!

  23. #83
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Cross! Checking in on you buddy. How is the taper going? Are you feeling ok? Trust me when I say you will not regret tapering. Things are ok on my end. Still some insomnia, but most of the anxiety "attacks" are gone. I can actually sit still for more than 5 minutes lol. And if I felt that way jumping off, I imagine yours will go even better b/c you are probably staying at 0.25mg longer than I did. Again, I had to jump b/c of circumstances with work, but I know it was easier b/c of the taper I did. I'm not going to lie, it was hard, but I am finally coming out of that cloud, and it feels good . Give me an update when you get around to it. Later!

    Joe
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  24. #84
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey Joe! Congrats on how everything is going. That is awesome! Very happy to hear most of the anxiety attacks have subsided and you are able to sit still once again. Sounds like you are definitely on the right track.

    Things are going well on my end. Still on the .25 and the symptoms are as follows, but are truly not too bothersome. So many people read things online and I think they immediately think the worst, but this is really nothing much.

    - a nightmare or even a couple per night and I wake up multiple times. I am able to get back to sleep just fine, but then it feels like I wake up an hour later or so and the cycle continues. (I read too much melatonin can cause nightmares so I am going to drop down on that a little because the nightmares are what has been waking me up.
    - Lack of motivation and tired during the day. Actually, it is in waves. A couple hours I will feel absolutely amazing and then I just get soo tired, then I get a small burst of energy again. But again, it is what it is and I don't let it get me down. After all, I can think of at least 50 things worse than being tired and unmotivated right now. Anxiety isn't as bad as it used to be. Maybe this slower taper I'm on is really the way to go for me and my body.
    - legs like to still move around, but it really is so mild, actually very mild this week.

    - The only thing that actually gets to me physically is all week I wake up and feel like I have to throw up, but within 10 minutes after taking the dose, it disappears and I feel fine the rest of the day. Just a little tired. BUT, getting my body moving really, really makes difference. You know what they say "a body at rest stays at rest, a body in motion stays in motion" haha. So, I have tried to be out and about as much as possible.

    Continuing to read "The Power of Positive Thinking" and without a doubt it is helping. I would have rolled my eyes at this all my life up until recently. Seriously. I am a very deep thinker/analyzer which has led to some great things in life, but I am also aware it can lead to over-analyzation, which just tires you even more as the negative thoughts linger. The negative thoughts shouldn't be there in the first place so I am getting so much better at training my brain. It is just like working out in the gym. As long as you are dedicated to it, you will without a doubt begin to see results and the results only continue to get better. Before you know it, it is habitual.

    I don't feel ready for the skip until I can at least have a morning without the stomach issue. That really is my only concern. Because with that, it will destroy my whole day. On Monday I may even just do a small sliver, so essentially just ride it down to zero before a skip.

    It's been 4 or 5 mornings with that feeling so we'll see how the next few go. I am wondering if I might have a stomach issue because I have also ben getting mild pain the lower left abdomen. Might just head to doctor and fill him in on all that is going on. (No more sub doc). YAY


    All in all, the taper is NOTHING to be scared of. While I am on .25, I can assure anyone out there looking to start the journey that it is nothing to be worried about as long as you follow Roberts method, or listen to your body and stay a little bit longer on the reductions. It's been a long time on this, so the slow taper is helping me both physically and mentally. I actually no longer want to just jump like I had earlier in the week. I have a clear mindset now and am ready to listen to my body and just relax. JUST RELAX.

    Best thing is to really get out of your head. Read, exercise, puzzles, whatever it is.
    winged eagle likes this.

  25. #85
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    It's been a while :-)
    Cross, how goes it?

  26. #86
    Crossifixio is offline Member
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    Hey Wing!

    I am actually doing well on this end. Just really get on and read a little and hop off. Re-reading posts and threads has been helpful for me. I have also been doing my best to follow a very healthy diet and have completely eliminated all caffeine. No more of those 5 hour energies. Those truly did boost the mood and energy little, but it came at a cost of increased anxiety. Vitamins going strong (Vitamin B complex really helping with appetite as well as 5HTP) and all in all my anxiety truly is decreasing. Pretty surprised at it too. I was absolutely expecting the opposite as I continue to drop and eventually make the skip. Not out of the woods yet as I still have a skip, but the anxiety is less now than when I was ever on higher doses of Subutex. I still have anxiety as I have always had it, but it has toned down a few notches for sure. Rocky at times, but overall much better. Clearer headed!

    Not sure if the anxiety levels are not really high because of a very slow taper allowing my mind to slowly rebuild itself instead of coming on stronger at once, or if it is my diet, supplements, exercise, the positive reading book I never thought I would ever touch in my life, or the therapy, but hey it is working. Of course I know it is a mix of it all and it is nice. However, I can say the biggest help has been GETTING OUT OF MY HEAD through reading, exercise, walks, or hobbies. Hard at first, but it definitely gets easier. No matter what, as soon as negative creeps up, immediately get rid of it. IMMEDIATELY. Don't sit in it. I know at times it can feel good to feel that sadness in a weird kind of way. Throughout my life I have actually sometimes liked that feeling of being alone, thinking no one knows what I know, no one sees what I see, no one gets what I get, and just no one understands. That feeling of actually liking the thought of packing your bags and disappearing from everyone and everything to a island somewhere. Strange how that is, but I don't let myself get in that zone anymore. My deep analyzation is only used for positive analyzation now. Nothing else. Hard as hell, but I am taking over control now.

    I've toned down on the melatonin and the nightmares are gone. I've been going back an forth between just taking melatonin and Alteril, and the alteril is much better. Still wake up a couple times at night, but as long as I exhaust myself during the day than I am actually doing okay on that end.

    The stomach issue is still there though. ONLY when I wake up and disappears very quickly after taking the dose. Rest of the day the stomach doesn't bother me one bit. I feel normal on that end. I normally take physical issues just fine, but any quick movements in the morning get me feeling like I am going to throw up. Hard to be out and about like that and get on with my day. Any thoughts???? I am thinking of heading to the doctor. Who knows, it has been a very long time on this and it may have damaged my stomach over the years and I am now uncovering my consequences....or it could just be the withdrawal, of course. BUT, it has lingered every morning for about a little over a week now.


    Joe, how is everything on your end?

  27. #87
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    What up Cross and W.E.?! I'm still hanging in there. Work has been brutal lately (and thankfully so b/c it keeps me busy). I have been clean since 09/24/12, and everyday has its challenges. I will say the most predominant symptom is the lethargy. My goodness, it is rough. My arms and legs feel like I have lead weights attached to them lol. I have been exercising everyday, no matter how hard it is to do. I know staying active is a priority b/c it helps build that dopamine and seratonin back.

    Are you having energy issues Winged? Do you find your energy coming back slowly?

    So, I'm currently on day 10, hoping that my energy comes back, but make no mistake Cross, even with the lethargy, I feel SO GOOD knowing I am approaching everyday with a clear mind. I mean, this is huge for me. I'm not sure if i've shared the extent of my use, but basically been using the past 9 years. I was up to approximately 150mg of Lortab/Norco (5 10mg at at time, 3 times a day), and 400 mg of Tramadol (4 50mg at a time, 2 times a day). I would supplement the Lortab with even more Tramadol when I would run out of Lortab. Reading that gives me cold chills b/c I could have really done some damage, but it is what it is. Its embarassing, but I learned one hell of a lesson lol.

    That sucks about your stomach issues in the morning. Hopefully that will subside after a while. Maybe seeing a doctor as a precaution would be the best idea. I only had some stomach upset, but not the bad nausea like you are describing. Of course, everyone is different.

    I hope all is going well with your taper, and I hope skipping days will help you. Robert's plan is wildly popular for a reason. You can do this Cross. Trust me, if I can, you can. I'm here waiting at the finish line!

    Joe
    Last edited by painkillerfree2003; 10-03-2012 at 08:05 PM.

  28. #88
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Hello boys :-)

    Joe, it's great to hear from you and even better to hear you're doing so well! Especially knowing how deep you were, and you dug yourself out with strength and determination. Very cool! Congrats on getting clean and on your new life from here on out :-D

    Cross, concerning your nausea.. In my experience, when I used to CT, nausea was something I rarely had to put up with. However, two years ago when I did the sub taper, I do recall experiencing some nausea, but it didn't last too long, so I'd take Joe's advice and ask a doctor about it. Can't hurt.
    You're doing amazing! You sound like you're ready to go into battle, with optimism to boot, so I must commend for that. Can't wait till you can say you're 100% clean, and I'll be at the finishing line with Joe, cheering you through!
    The best part for me was when you wrote how anxiety levels are lower now. Amazing what opiates convince us of, that our pain is more, our anxiety is more. What a crutch.. And you knowing the truth of it now is the impetus you needed to really massacre this taper :-D

    Proud of you both. So much.

  29. #89
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Oh, and Joe, concerning the lethargy, that's to be expected. I did experience some this time around, but during my last taper, I actually had to take naps in the afternoon, which is crazy, I never nap..
    This time the lethargy wasn't as bad and not as long, mainly because I was barely on the subs for three weeks, and that's including the ten day skipping process.
    Hang in there, it does get better. Vitamins do work, so try some B12, vitamin C, etc. That lead suit thing, yup, sounds familiar. It'll get better, I promise.
    Once again, bravo!
    Robert_325 likes this.

  30. #90
    painkillerfree2003 is offline Junior Member
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    How's it going Cross? Still tapering or have you jumped yet? Let me know how you're feeling buddy. I'm 2 weeks clean today, and although the lethargy can be a real p.i.t.a., I feel a lot better. Anyway, just checking in with you buddy. I hope all is well.

    Joe

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