[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by kathleen5hockey

Question, is a crack pipe about 7" long glass cylindar? Can she smoke heroin too? Again, thank you for everything, all of you. I have learned so much here, I have to learn the other side of addiction, from the addicts point of view. Yes, I am running in circles but comming here helps me stop and think.

Yes that is a crack pipe. And yes she can DEFINITELY smoke heroin. She can even mix cocaine and heroin together and smoke that too. It's a speedball when people inject cocaine and heroin together and that is what killed John Belushi years ago as well as MANY others. Doing cocaine and heroin together whether injecting it, snorting it, or smoking it is ALL really bad news.

It does make sense after the symptoms you've described in her that she's doing cocaine and heroin mixed together. I would bet the farm on it. I have NO doubts whatsoever. Can you talk to her about this?

This is serious Kathleen. The cocaine does the racing heart thing, it can cause a heart attack or a stroke that could leave her totally disabled or worse. And of course the heroin is the "KING" of all downers. So the two mixed together ... well you can imagine the rush, the high an addict gets from this.

She has some serious problems. I would talk to her about the speedball thing. I realize she probably has the "know it all" attitude and thinks you know nothing. But she is messing with her life doing the two mixed together. And don't kid yourself ... she is injecting them together too I would almost guarantee, at least as much as I can guarantee it without knowing her. I know addicts, I've been one. I would find out what she is doing. Let me know. I continue to pray for your family. God bless.

[kathleen5hockey]

Robert, what would I do without you? Maybe the reason you were an addict was to get clean and help all the rest of us? Only an ex - addict knows the things you do. I would never had thought of mixing 2 drugs. I will talk to her today. She was talking really fast last night but I thought it was the large ice coffee she drank. Do the pupils get small with coke and heroin? With her large blue eyes (which are very beautiful), it's easy to see the pupils. Have noticed that people with brown eyes it's harder to tell. Again, thank you for being here for me and all the others that read these threads. You are an ANGEL!!!!

[Robert_325]

Thank you for the kind words kathleen. I do look at working with addicts as a ministry. Not to sound corny but I was healed, I am no longer an addict. I know that goes against the "once and addict always an addict" philosophy but that philosophy puts limits on what God can do. I know that HE delivered me from my addiction to help other addicts. I do know what they are going through as I've been there. God works in very cool ways and my life definitely changed when I found Jesus Christ. I've never wanted any drugs since. Addicts relate better to someone who doesn't judge, condemn, any of that. I was forgiven so I try to not judge others even though it's difficult sometimes. They say the greater the miracle the greater the testimony. I don't preach here but I will testify any time a door is opened.

The pin point pupils along with the accelerated speech and physical movement are all an indication that she is under the influence of a stimulant such as cocaine and opiate as well. In the old days (1970s) cocaine used to be called "go fast" on the street. It's been enough years for me now since I last used that I don't know if that term is even used anymore. But it still shows what it does to you. And the heroin does the pin point pupil thing. So the two together result in a combination of symptoms just as you describe.

It sends a shiver down my back to think about how "fast" everything goes with cocaine. It's scarey to me now. The cocaine will make her accelerated enough so that you probably wouldn't even notice the effects of the heroin if she is an experienced user and you are just an observer. It all makes total sense now. I pray you can help her get a grip on this deal. God bless.

[kathleen5hockey]

"once and addict always an addict" philosophy - I don't believe it. My daughter has been told that only to say "if I will always be an addict might as well use." I cannot believe it, God will help. He has helped me get thru this, He has kept my daughter alive. Everything happens for a reason. Before drugs our family life and marriage were great, or so I thought. Was a Religious person but stopped going to church. When in total darkness God led me to a new job at a great church, the community has surrounded my whole family in love and prayers. Without God and my parish I really don't know how we would have made it so far. Am I preaching? It is comforting to know we are not alone.

Will talk to the daughter later. Again, thank you.

[Freedom4me]

Kathleen,
I'm still watching your thread and praying for your girl. You are an amazing mom. What you have been through and to still be fighting so hard for her, so many would have walked away, the "tough love" bullsh*t" and all. There is only LOVE. And nothing stronger than a mammas love. Keep fighting for her.

[tired2]

Originally Posted by kathleen5hockey

Here is an update: The kid yesterday overdosed but was revived. Now my daughter tells me that if you OD on heroin or crack they can bring you back and nothing will be wrong with your brain. I found 2 needles in her purse but I have taken her for Suboxone everyday but one, when her boyfriend took her. I hope this is just 1 slip up and will not lead to anything else. The Grandparents gave her money for Easter (against our wishes), but they are just being the generous people they are. They don't know all about her, don't want to break their hearts. That's part of the shame again. I think her and her boyfriend are having kinky sex in her room. I try my best to be on top of them but have to do some housework. She has issues, the problem is that in this state if she chooses not to get help, I cannot force her. I can pay for it though! They all know where to send the bills! I would have to give up parental rights and the state would take her. That would be the end. She needs people around her that LOVE her. I just am nervous inside, you know the feeling when something is just not right. Thanks for being here. It sure helps to get it out and not being face to face.

Hi Kathleen,
I was reading your post and it breaks my heart ...you are a good mother never forget that for one moment . I will pray for you both.

Does her cousins mother know her daughter is dealing at 15? Whenever she has a drug test have that person take away all her belongings before she takes it.
I was blown away by your daughters comment about the kid that OD on heroin or crack they will bring you back your brain will be ok ....does she know that you can OD and just die.
I would take her to actually see a hard core addicts so she can see where she will end up if she keeps up with this life style ,since she will be 18 soon and on her own .... Maybe her counsler can help with that . Has she thought about aides or jail at all....Does she have a place to go if she left home now? I don't mean to be harsh but I couldn't help my son and he will never be the same since the drugs affected his brain. I don't want to see that happen to your daughter . Right now she's stealing from friends and family .The worse the habit gets the more she will steal ....then jail . I have seen so people end up down that road . I know you love her but she needs a reality check and a good one .
I'd let her know that if you catch her using again you will call the police or take her. Maybe a night in jail will at least make her think twice.
Did you know that you can talk to the police and explain to them that you need to get thru to your daughter and ask them if she can spend the night .I had a friend that did that and lucky for her it helped. Her mom also took her into the neighborhood where addicts live .
Here if the police find any drugs in your home they will take your home and everything in it.
I get my Subutex script from my doctor .Can you get a script from another doctor so you do not have to drive everyday? I Have over 60 pills of Suboxone left since I couldn't take them ....I wish I could give them away to someone that needs them but it's not legal....really sucks. I never shot up my addiction was from pain meds from a pain management doctor he had me taking vic's to morphine .

I know she needs family and love along with support but ,she won't stop till she is ready .You may have to make the hardest decision of your life to save hers . I hope that never happens ,my son best friend has a sister that is addict she has three kids which her mother's raising . She's 27 now.

I have four kids all grown...how every my oldest and I hardly speak he is 37 and I have only seen him twice since he was 15. When I divorced his step father who was beating and choking me 'which I had him arrested (thank God my daughter got the call out or I wouldn't be writting this) . This is when my son left . It broke my heart that he chose to leave when I was at work....he then called DCFS on me to get back at me .I was terrified and so hurt . I found him he but he was living in the city ....hanging with the wrong people stealing and doing hardcore drugs so they were not aloud at my house . He later moved into my ex's house . After he moved in he brought his new found friend from the city . Well he got kicked out then went to his grandmothers with his friend and ruined her apt. and also was kicked out several times (not my moms) . Finally he had no place to go . Mean while he was still using . He called me and wanted to move in I told him he couldn't move in. I had two younger kids and my 18yr old I couldn't put my other kids thru that not to mention my landlord wouldn't allow it . My son always hated me b/c I never liked his buddy who was black ....I told him over and over that color didn't matter . His friend was a thief and drug addict etc.. I think he was in a gang also. Well I got his dad to take him in...he needed to get away from here. So my son moved done to Georgia . Well soon followed was his buddy .

Everytime I would try to help or talk to my son all he would do is bring up the racist issue but he didn't get it I wasn't .... I just wanted him to get clean and have a relationship with him . Well 2yrs later at Christmas his sister called him and I told her I would not speak to him if he wanted to argue . He always brought up the same issues so I told her I would only talk to him if he talked normal and not argue about the past which was always about his buddy etc. Well I started to talk with him and same old arguments again so his sister took the phone and they argued ... I was so upset and got up took the phone said good bye and hung it up .It was Christmas and I had people over including my current husband.... Well he called back a couple of times ...then one call was got by the answer machine. That's when I heard the words no mother wants to ever hear.
I was told I was no longer his F***ing mother anymore .Yes everyone heard it ...I so hurt and mortified . I beat myself up as to what did I do so wrong over and over for years . The last time we spoke he was thinking people were following and watching him etc...the drugs really messed his mind up .He is married she is a very nice girl and very Religious ...I was never invited to the wedding which also hurt me. I'm glad he found someone who got him to stop taking drugs ...so even if he won't speak to me hardly at least he's ALIVE.
I did see him five yrs ago at my brothers wedding we did talk that's it... he wouldn't even come to my house.
His last trip up here he saw his sister but never called or visited me ....she said he acted wierd...he wanted to sleep in the truck and walking the neighberhood people do not do that in the middle of the night ...it has expensive houses so they will call the cops.

I do understand the shame b/c i have gotten to the point that when people ask how many kids I have I just say three....it's easier than trying to tell the truth.

Oh he found out that his buddy wasn't such a great friend since he stole his car to drive back up here ....I told him he wasn't to be trusted the point I tried to get thru to him.
I'm so sorry for going on and on but you are the first I have told this to.

I will pray for you and your daughter
God Bless

[kathleen5hockey]

Thank you for sharing your story. I have been investigated by DCF 2x's, both times begged for help. She has been in 5 rehabs, 2 pych hospitals, 3 outpatients and numberous doctors. Have petitioned the courts for help. She has been to jail, have talked to the police (we are on 1st name basis). Cannot even tell you how many doctors we have been to. She has had scabies, gonoreah, clymidia, has Hep c. These are the ones I know about. She likes the crack houses because they "are her friends". I don't know what else to do. The only way to get Suboxone without going every day is to pay $1,500 for the initial visit and $400 monthly, I just cannot afford it. My older son is in college. Her cousin that she smokes weed with lives with my brother, her alcoholic mother abandoned her, that is a whole other issue I am dealing with. Turns out she is addicted to Oxy's and is pregnant, tonight will tell my brother. It never ends!

Robert, here is the update for you. Yesterday we both took an afternoon nap, felt good. Then she didn't want to go for Suboxone. Was very calm and explained to her that it is her life, she has to want the help. I am here to take her. Said she is tired of going every day but did get up and go. Came home and fell asleep again. The boyfriend calls and out she goes. She was home by 9 last night but looked high. Then up all night. Of course she didn't go to school today. They took a drug test, will get results in a few days.

I re-read my posts and it may seem as if I am letting her get away with alot. Let me say, my family is tired of having the police at our home. Some neighbors are afraid of us, we have lived in our home for 25 yrs.

Today I am just tired and confused. Don't know what else to do. Even in jail she could be raped and get drugs so don't think that is the answer.

It's so hard for all of us, my son doesn't like to come home, don't know where he will live for summer break of college. My husband and I don't have 2 minutes to ourselves and when we do all we think about is her. Just a little down today.

Thanks for being here for me.

[Lost83]

Kathleen,

I just wanted to send some support your way, I can't imagine how difficult this is for your entire family. I hope she gets it together quickly.

[MaisieC]

Hi Kathleen,

I think we are all desperately wracking our brains trying to figure out how to help you and your family. Please forgive us if we make suggestions you already thought of or already tried. It must be so terribly frustrating for you.

I was hoping she had got rid of that boyfriend. Why is she allowed to go out with him or be alone with him in the house? Please understand I'm not criticizing you: I'm just trying to understand your approach and the rules you have set down for her.

My best friend was a heroin addict, and I remember her telling me that when she was a teenager her ambition was to be a junkie. She saw it in a very romantic light. I was absolutely floored. She ended up doing a lot of other things in her life, including becoming the art director for Bloomingdale's catalogue. But she did realize the ambition of becoming a real junkie. I have thought so much about her in connection with your daughter, hoping to draw lessons from my friend's life that might help your daughter. I will keep thinking and praying for you.

Maisie

[kathleen5hockey]

I would like to thank everyone who gives suggestions. You don't know what we have done so please keep giving me ideas. Living with an addict is like walking on egg shells. I tell her to stay home, she leaves. In the beginning I used to enforce the rules, that led to many broken doors and windows, plus the added bonus of police at the front door. The end is always the same, she would leave. We have to sleep sometime. She has actually jumped out the second floor window to leave in the middle of the night.

Thank you for letting me vent. Even if no one read this it just helps me to write it and re-read.

[MaisieC]

Kathleen,

When does she turn 18? And has she talked about having any plans for that time? Is she looking forward to being "free," or do you think she will stay at home and it will be business as usual?

Maisie

[kathleen5hockey]

She turns 18 next January. No - it will not be business as usual. She does have dreams of college. Let's just hope she makes it that far.

She is a loving, caring, beautiful child when not on drugs. She is Religious when not on drugs. I have to always remind myself of who is really is, not who the drugs make her. She has had to much trauma related to drugs.

The past is the past, we have to look toward a bright future. I keep on praying.

[tired2]

Hi Kathleen,
I'm praying for your family . Do you have insurance ? It really make me mad that it has to cost so much ....here I have 60 plus days of sub's and can't do anything with them especially when there are good people that need help .
I will talk to my younger daughter who is now 26 she may be able to give me some ideas for you. She has know some people that have had drug problems.

Have you ever followed her if not I would start ...just don't tell her but you will know more of when and where she is and what she is up to.

Your daughter has really put you threw more than I thought . I know how much you love your daughter but wow she really needs help .... So has she been to a crack house or just lashing out and saying it's her friend ? How does she get the money for her habit....I know you said she steals from friends and family but those well's will go dry . I don't want to ask but with all the sexual diseases has she been selling herself for money?

Some states will actually arrest a parent for what their kids do...at 17 she can be charged as an adult and ruin her life. I pray that all will turn out well and that she goes to college ....
You should ask her how she will be able to go to college since all the money is going to drugs .

When she gets arrested how does she get out ? You said she jumped two floors to get out at night ...I would board her window . Does her boyfriend and cousin go to her school ? One thing I would do is if you know they actually have drugs on them call the police ...

I know you can't make her stop unless she wants. Do you maybe have family else where that would take her so you can get her away from the people she is with ...that's what I had to do with my son .

I know I sound harsh about this and I do not mean to be....

Praying for you...

[kathleen5hockey]

Yes, have insurance, they only cover the cost of the prescription. They did cover the rehabs. She used to steal anything not nailed down, hasn't happened in awhile. I used to follow her, didn't do any good. Cannot board up her windows or lock her in the house or out of the house, that's child abuse according to DCF. In the state of CT if she is caught with a needle or 1 bag of dope it's for personal use. They will not arrest. The police have been very good to us here. They have our backs. The bottom line is SHE has to want the help and I believe she does. We all have to remember she is 17, started using at age 14 therefore her brain is stuck in the 14 yr old mode until she stays off of drugs. Had another talk with her today, told her she is not allowed out tonight because of not going to school. Told her that we have rules and they must be obeyed. We'll see. Thank you to everyone for keeping her in your prayers. I believe it will turn around.

[melinda7.5]

Hi Kathleen
I have been reading your thread for awhile now and I have been thinking about you and want to share my story about my kids.
I have a 30 year old son who was my he!! child...
at the age of 14 was out of control...Drinking and drugs.
He was in rehab a few times and I knew every police officer in town also.
But I have to Agree with tired2...I would follow your daughter also..I wouldn't let her out of my sight.
When My son was in the 8th grade the school told me he could not go there any more unless I went to school with him...So off I went to school..sat in the same class,some times I sat in the back of the class but if he even opened his mouth I was right there next to him.
On the first day of school I had to wrestle him out of bed...and I'm not kidding he was a very strong Young man.but I won that day...
I went to school with him all semester and he went from straight F's to straight A's...after a few days all of his friends loved me being there so it was OK then...when he would sneak out. I was on the streets looking for him and most of the time I found him...picked him up drunk and had a few fights with him.
But on my life I was not going to let him be in a gang or if I could stop him from doing something I was there...
I had plan A to Z made out and went threw it a few times...

I also have a 17 year old daughter...this is why I haven't posted on your thread...She is a good girl and I didn't want you to feel bad...But if I thought for one minute she was going to put a needle in her arm I would lay down my life...I would go into a crack house and wipe out every one in there...
and pull her out by the hair and kick her A$$ and she could call CPS...if she wanted...My son tried it a few times and I would just tell them why I did what I did and they told me I would have done that too!!!

I swear I would take my daughter on top of a mountain to live if I thought it would help her...Get her away from her friends...

I swear I know what you are going thru...and I'm sorry but some how you got to find a way to reach her...Take her on a road trip...

Please don't take this post the wrong way...I have been there...
I will be praying for you...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[kathleen5hockey]

Thank you for sharing your story. The school system here would not allow me to go, she has been put in alternate school. I drive her every morning about 45 min. both ways. The bus does take her home. Have done the fighting thing. Am trying the calm approach. This morning we were both tired so we had a few words, nothing terrible. Am trying to get her to see the big picture. Seems that for 2 yrs everything has been done to make her better, she has been the center of our lives. It's time for her to realize that life is not just about her. She has to want to get better, which I think she does.

Teenagers make mistakes, I did, we all do. Unfortunately, heroin is not a let's try it drug and put it down. It's so strong the first time you use it your body and mind wants more.

I am working on a calmer more religious focused approach with her now. The other way did not work.

I am happy that your daughter is a great girl. Mine is to when not on drugs. I am forcing myself to see the girl she wants to be instead of the girl the drugs want her to be.

On a good note: Yesterday was a beautiful spring New England day! Went horseback riding and did great. That is my therapy. From now on I will look at the good and thank God for it.

This forum has helped me see that I have to focus on the good.

Thank you everyone!

[tired2]

Hi Kathleen,
I have to agree with Melinda ....I did exactly what she did...I had four kids lost one to drugs for few years but got him out of this state otherwise he probably would not be ALIVE.

I have two daughters also along with another son all had issues at one point or another but I won't get into all that .....They all are grown and have families .

I very proud of them but I had many scary moments.

Hey I have heard about boot camp for troubled kids....maybe you can check into that for your daughter. It's worth a try .....You'll have to send her away and maybe you will find your daughter again....actually she will find herself. Don't know the cost but as it is money is just going into her arm.

Good Luck and God Bless

[kathleen5hockey]

I sent her to Florida we are up north. The first weekend she ran away, was not accepting the help. This problem is she wants to change but is so young she cannot see outside the box. Talked to her about it the other day. I try to put myself in her position as a 17 yr old with no friends. How sad. She was voted best personality in middle school. Her best friend and her knew each other since kindergarden. Some she even went to pre-school with! Her life was so much fun, I thought. We used to sing in the car, just the 3 of us girls to the "weekend song" and laugh. We were so close, talked about everything. Then heroin. Don't know exactly what happened. Should have seen it coming. In the begining it's hard to tell heroin apart from a hormone raging teenager, they are very similar. Then you find out what hell is like.

Robert, the teacher has confirmed what you thought, she is using again. Will find out what this weekend. She would not go for Suboxone and has had stomache issues, won't go into detail but you know.

Thank you for letting me use this as an outlet. I just want my daughter back!

[melinda7.5]

Hi kathleen
I was thinking about you today...You said you were going to church...are you taking your daughter to the celebrate recovery meetings...
That would be a good thing to try...
I'm just trying to give you some more things to help...

I understand she is 17 ...I really was just like her at that age...I was a hell child...
My poor mother...She took me out of the city and moved me to the country.
It scares me to think what would have happened to me on the streets of downtown Seattle...

Just remember at 17 she doesn't know how to make the right decision.so try to make it for her...
I know your tired...and worn out from this...but you have got to keep your eye on her...

Talk to you soon, Melinda

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by kathleen5hockey

I sent her to Florida we are up north. The first weekend she ran away, was not accepting the help. This problem is she wants to change but is so young she cannot see outside the box. Talked to her about it the other day. I try to put myself in her position as a 17 yr old with no friends. How sad. She was voted best personality in middle school. Her best friend and her knew each other since kindergarden. Some she even went to pre-school with! Her life was so much fun, I thought. We used to sing in the car, just the 3 of us girls to the "weekend song" and laugh. We were so close, talked about everything. Then heroin. Don't know exactly what happened. Should have seen it coming. In the begining it's hard to tell heroin apart from a hormone raging teenager, they are very similar. Then you find out what hell is like.

Robert, the teacher has confirmed what you thought, she is using again. Will find out what this weekend. She would not go for Suboxone and has had stomache issues, won't go into detail but you know.

Thank you for letting me use this as an outlet. I just want my daughter back!

I'll give ten to one odds it's positive for opiates ... that's pretty obvious. It's hard to tell with the cocaine. Depends solely on the testing procedure they use.

If they check for cocaine metabolites she will show positive LOTS longer than if they do a standard five panel urine test. (I would ask them if they are checking cocaine metabolites.) Unfortunately the five panel tests are the cheapest and that's what gets used most often. That's how a cocaine addict knows how to use. They know they can get away with it if they don't use for a few days prior to being tested. And if they just don't care if they get caught well then it doesn't matter to them.

A standard five panel test will show positive for cocaine if it's been within about the last 3-4 days max. Depends on the amount they use too as far as how long it will show up on a five panel test. Hair follicle tests are like a movie screen of her drug activity for months past. They are the best but also the most expensive. NO WAY she can beat a hair follicle test.

She is not wanting to use the suboxone because it messes up her high when she uses the heroin. I still wish they would give her enough to make her puke her guts out when she uses. Guarantee that is what I would be giving her. No way she would be using heroin if I was administering her suboxone. These people are NOT dosing the suboxone properly I promise you. They are wasting everyone's time with the little tiny doses once a day. That's a joke.

Let me know how the results turn out. Talk later. God bless.

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by kathleen5hockey

I sent her to Florida we are up north. The first weekend she ran away, was not accepting the help. This problem is she wants to change but is so young she cannot see outside the box. Talked to her about it the other day. I try to put myself in her position as a 17 yr old with no friends. How sad. She was voted best personality in middle school. Her best friend and her knew each other since kindergarden. Some she even went to pre-school with! Her life was so much fun, I thought. We used to sing in the car, just the 3 of us girls to the "weekend song" and laugh. We were so close, talked about everything. Then heroin. Don't know exactly what happened. Should have seen it coming. In the begining it's hard to tell heroin apart from a hormone raging teenager, they are very similar. Then you find out what hell is like.

Robert, the teacher has confirmed what you thought, she is using again. Will find out what this weekend. She would not go for Suboxone and has had stomache issues, won't go into detail but you know.

Thank you for letting me use this as an outlet. I just want my daughter back!

I forgot one more thing...A friend of mine told me it is against the law for you to not be able for you to go to school with your daughter...you just have to check in with the office first...that is why they call it public school...
I went to an alternative school...and my teacher would come to my house in the morning with 3 other kids to pick me up for school to make sure I went...LOL and my mom would make them coffee...
so check with your principle...Im sure they would help you with this...

good luck, Melinda

[anotheraddict]

Kathleen,

My heart breaks for you as I read your story. I am so sorry to hear that your daughter is indeed using again. Don't you wish you could just lock her in the basement and let her out when she's ready to face the world without drugs? Too bad we can't make that a reality.

Sorry I don't have any advice for you. I am not far removed from my teenage years, but I was in the "misfit" crowd. Didn't do anything wrong really, but wasn't cool enough for anyone to care who I was.

Mainly I wanted to let you know that I am here, and I am rooting for you. I heard a song while I was messing with my music and it made me think of you. It's called "Unconditional" by Clay Davidson. It's country (what I mainly listen to, lol), and it's a story song. I don't know if that is anything you might like, but I wanted to share. The first verse really made me think of your struggles with your daughter and the unconditional love you are showing her.

Wishing you the best.

Jean

[brndout]

I work in the public school system and you have quite a few rights although they are not advertised. You need to check with the teacher and if she puts you off go to the principal .You can come in the class anytime although its usually a courtesy to check in advance .I know I would move hell and earth for my daughter just like you have been doing. I have been following your posts and it is heartbreaking . I had alot of problems with mine also . No big dramatic change all at once but like you I was relentless ,we went to an outpatient family therapy four days a week -three hours a night -her Dad and I. We presented to her that is was a family problem -her problem was ours and we were united to help her.Seemed to help her to see us sitting in those meetings and us taking responsibility for things we had done wrong as well. There was no blame or finger pointing just everyone taking responsibility for their own stuff. Well no at the time everyone took responsibility but her , she acted like a complete brat but we loved her anyway . I would hear her talking to her friends at night repeating things I had told her and she had scoffed at . Somehow something got through I dont think it was the program I think it was her Dad and I being united and never stopping . Actually I was the relentless one but he did participate- I just didn't sleep for 5 years. One thing I noticed is there is no mention of her Dad bieng involved in this but I know you've said that you two went away for the day together so i gather he's there. Is your husband involved in this ? I think Dads are extremly important here maybe even the key , it cant be just you .She will keep trying for Dads love and support. My daughter is now married ,clean ,taught school for a few years and now stays home to take care of her new baby.. Believe me I was so afraid that I would lose her and like your daughter I knew the real her and it was so sad . Teenagers are egocentric by nature and drugs compound it .Is there any way she could read your posts on here-not with you forcing her to but would she be willing to look? She probably doesnt even realize the heartbreak she is causing or the number of people who care about her and her mom. Would she be willing to post even a little one? I will have my daughter post to her and Im sure many others on here would have their kids who used to be in trouble talk with her in a non threatening way. You know they could get on and talk ******** about us like how we are always trying to control them and our goal in life is to ruin theirs. My daughter laughs at that now but that what she thought. My heart goes out to you and my prayers are with you. Linda P.S. I think Dad could play a big role here .Little 17 year olds really need them

[melinda7.5]

Lets get you daughter on here...there are young and old for her to talk to...
It would be a gold mine of knowledge..maybe she would enjoy talking to us..
It's worth a try,,,

[kathleen5hockey]

I will talk to her about getting on line. Her father is very involved. He took her for Suboxone today. They spend alot of time together. She has always been daddy's little girl. Sometimes he doesn't see what I do because of his love for her. We have all gone for counceling. She just needs a clean friend. Everyone needs somebody. Am looking into a teen sober club.

She wrote us a beautiful note last night and left it on the kitchen counter, thanking us for being with her and standing by her. The good girl is still there. I have hope and faith.

[anotheraddict]

Kathleen,

If you can get your daughter on here to read, I think that would be wonderful! I am not too far removed from being a teen myself at 24. I have also dealt with both sides of addiction as my father is now a dry drunk, and I struggle with opiates.

I am glad to hear that her father is indeed involved. The more support she has the better her chances are. I am also glad to see that you still get to have some glimpses of your loving baby girl I know she will always be your baby girl no matter how old she gets, at least that's what my parents tell me, hehe.

I am so glad that you are sticking around here and allowing us to help. If there's anything else that can be done, please don't hesitate to ask. You can never ask too many questions about this monster of addiction, and it's hard for others to understand the feelings that go along with it.

I did want to point out that you have already acknowledged something that is hard for many to understand. Your daughter stopped developing mentally when she started taking the drugs. This is a little off topic, but I think it's a good example: I watched Celebrity Rehab, and Steven Adler from Guns N Roses was on there. He started using at 11. Now he's 44 years old physically. Mentally he's still that 11 year old boy who doesn't know how to deal with thoughts and feelings.

It is wonderful how much you are doing to support your daughter. Don't forget to breathe, and don't forget to take some time to make sure you are okay as well. You can't help her if you are not taking care of yourself.

I hope things are going a little better for you

Jean

[kathleen5hockey]

Hi Jean,

Thank you for your kind words. I find that writing this down really helps along with all of the support I have found. Heroin is a terrible drug, it effects the brain

I liken it to brain damage. But the wonderful thing about the brain is that it will repair itself to some degree. The longer heroin is not used the better. I have seen glimpses of it in my daughter. She was sick on Friday so her father stayed home in the afternoon, she did make it to school for the morning hours. The following is a letter she wrote to us that night.

Dad + Mom,
Thank you for taking care of me today. I really needed you. Thank you dad for spending time with me all day and mom thanks for trying every doctor in the book. I (heart) you guys

(heart) __________

She is still in there.

While re-seeding my front lawn I found a needle. I get something good and then well.... Please everyone pray God helps her, she cannot do it alone.

[kathleen5hockey]

The daughter went to school then called an hour later for me to pick her up. She said she had something to tell me so we go into the office and she says she thinks she's pregnant. Had made an appointment for the Gyno for today already. She gets the 3 month birth control shot. Told her that no babies are coming into my house. I'm 52 and have lived thru hell, no way would I ever do this again. We talked and I told her the kid would have problems considering all the drugs she does. Still denies doing drugs but I have the results which are positive.

Somebody take me away from this life! Will it ever end?

How I haven't been fired yet is a miracle.

[melinda7.5]

Hi kathleen
Do you remember when I said i was just like your daughter at that age.
I came home when I was 18 and told my Mom I was pg and I moved back in with her.She was even in the delivery room with me.
It was a life changing event for me after my son was born I had something to love that was more than myself and that was what I needed...
I grew up after that my son saved my life.
We all had some great years together, My mother would not trade them for anything.
All we can do is ride out the storm sometimes.
Try to remember everything will work out the way it's suppose to...
I will say a prayer for you...
Melinda

[kathleen5hockey]

The world keeps crashing in on me. Yep, she is pregnant, birth control pills on her night stand. At first I was supportive as she was crying. After she regained control she said it is her and her boyfriends decision. Well, no more babies in my house. I hate kids now. Cannot even stand to look at them anymore. Used to always love kids. Now they make me ill. I cannot take this life anymore, heading for a breakdown.

I think it's great your mom helped you. So many mothers would. Me, I have nothing left to give. 2 yrs in hell has killed all of my emotions as well as most of my love.

She just doesn't get it. She is using drugs, cannot even get up in time for school, no license. Nothing but years of bad decisions. I did think maybe this happened for a reason. Maybe she would straighten out. What about the child, good chance harmed from all the drugs already.

I've got to get out of drug world! It's killing me and I don't even get the high.