[bev49]

I cut and pasted the followign paragraph from a site I found after doing a google search on "heroin and body odor". The site is www. www.heroin-addiction.org/heroin-facts.htm:

Some physical indications of use include: extreme loss of appetite and weight; needle tracks or punctures; black and blue marks from "skin popping"; scars along veins; cramps; nausea; vomiting; excessive scratching and complaint of itching; sweating; constipation; raw, red nostrils from snorting; runny nose; pin-point pupils and watery eyes; reduced vision; drowsiness; euphoria; trance-like states; excessive thirst; tremors; twitching; unkempt appearance; strong body odor; irritability; chills; slight hallucinations and lethargy.

I also read on anopther site that morphone causes a certain body odor and since heroin is a derivitive of morphine, that might be what the smell is from. She could also have an infected abscessed injection site which would smell badly.

I agree with Lost in that I wouldnt read to much into her "cry for help". I think she is crying out for help, certainly, but at the same time she is not ready for it. You need to let it go, keep on with the Wellbutrin if it's making you feel better, which you say it is, and wait until she comes to you and says the magic words "I need help".

[kathleen5hockey]

She denies using. Swears she is on Suboxone. We left the needle on her bed with a picture of her and her dad. Trying to get thru to her. She is so sweet, says she loves us constantly. It is all an act. Thanks to all regarding her smell, couldn't figure it out.

[bev49]

Kathleen, its not an act. She does love you. I loved my parents more than anything. The thing is she hates herself more than she loves you. And she loves her heroin more than she loves anything else.

[kathleen5hockey]

I know you are right Bev. I just hurts to much to believe she loves me but hates herself. She's had so much trauma in her short life. I know she loves all of us. She knows that it's her heroin addiction that has turned this family upside down. I know it hurts her. I just don't know how to help her. But there again, can't help someone who doesn't want it. I just pray she wants the help before she is dead. I will always love my daughter and want her back.

[bev49]

Kathleen, you break my freaking heart....You now know the answers. You can't help someone til they are ready for it. She won't be ready for it until she hits her own personal rock bottom. Protect yourself the best you can. Be ready to help WHEN she's ready for it. Both you and Amy, and your husband and son too, are in my thoughts and prayers.

[kathleen5hockey]

She was home early last night, very pleasant, talking to us. Watched tv with dad. Then the question, "can I have money tomorrow night?" Her bf and her want to go to the baseball game. I said, Amy, why do you think we should pay for you to go on a date? She says he paid for the tickets but they need gas and money for food. She says bf doesn't make that much money. Didn't want to get into a fight with her but did explain that her father and I only do what we can afford. I neve asked my parents for money for my bf, even if I did they would laugh at me. This is the reason I am very leary of her being nice to us. I always is followed by "can I have money?" She has 2 weeks to do 10 hrs community service, not going to fret over that.

[Lost83]

No gas no go, when i was a teenager and doing stupid things my parents wouldn't come off a nickel if I were out of their sight. Missing a baseball game isn't the end of the world. Don't give in. I would certainly laugh if my son/daughter asked for $$ for a date on top of the fact that you've spent thousands of dollars trying to help her. I know it was nice to see her interact with you guys in a pleasant way for a change but it most definitely sounds like there was a alterior motive behind her actions.

[kathleen5hockey]

I agree. Isn't it sad that I cannot enjoy time w/ her because I don't trust her. I always feel like I am being used.

On a good note: Wellbutrin is working great for me. Haven't smoked in a couple of days, no problem sleeping either. My insides are not shaking anymore. I feel good!

[Lost83]

AWESOME!! So glad you gave it a chance despite your fears.

[kathleen5hockey]

Amy looked great yesterday, she really is a beautiful girl. They went to the ballgame but it got rained out. She did take a Suboxone last night. I fell off the horse again, have to re-think horseback riding. Think I need to move to a new barn. In the 12 yr riding I have fallen 2x this yr. Not good. Won't admit I am getting old, it has to be the horse!

[kathleen5hockey]

Amy was home again last night. She went out with her father looking at trucks for him. She also took Suboxone. Suboxone really works for her, now if she will keep taking it.

I am very sore, headache and limping. Really need to re-think this horse stuff. Love it but am getting to old to keep falling.

[jbchicken]

Kat, so glad to read your posts. Am praying for you and your family. You, however, have got to be careful. You know us moms don't "bounce" like we used to. A fall from a horse... well that's a long way to the ground! Take care of yourself!

Hope that it's been a blessed weekend.
Julia <><

[kathleen5hockey]

You are correct Julia! Don't bounce like I used to! Really got hurt this last fall, am taking some time off from riding. I did manage to go out on Sat to a party and danced the whole night away. The guy who thru the party was my first bf many moons ago. A great time! It's so nice to see people who have known me for years, lots of fun.

Amy did good this weekend. She has been home alot. Although last night something didn't seem right. She said they were going to the movies then about an hour later she's back. I asked her why and she said she didn't feel good.

Am not taking Wellbutrin anymore. Friday I had a major melt down with hubby. He is just so selfish. Figured the drugs weren't working so no more. Although I did quit smoking so that's good.

Lot's of things going on in my life. Mom is home because she fell, brother is home because he had an operation (they live together) and I am in charge of both of them!

Oh well, it's a beautiful day! Thanks for being here for me!

[iloerose]

Kathleen: I've been following your thread, I can't believe what a strong woman you are. Jeez, when it rains it pours, doesn't it. Keep managing to keep a positive outlook, I'm awed at how you do that. I've seen on other threads how you've supported and helped others. I don't know what to say, but I've been praying for you and God Bless.

[bev49]

Kathleen, its so nice to hear from you again. You do sound good. Hopefully, Amy is coming to hear senses or will start soon. But in the meantime, you are doing the right thing by thinking of No. 1, which is YOU. Make sure getting off the Wellbutrin is the proper thing to do. If you start to feel ********py again, there is no shame in taking an antidepressant. Take care.

[kathleen5hockey]

Thanks Bev and Iloerose for the kind words. I wasn't happy about taking a drug, mainly because drugs have caused me so much pain. The Wellbut worked for a few days but the bottom line is I have to learn to deal with life. It did help me quit smoking so that's good. On Friday with my melt down the hubby thinks I am loosing it. He just doesn't get it. Told him I feel like a spring that was wound up to tight and is just now letting loose. Some days the spring loosens up slowly other days it just snaps. He will never understand. Amy is daddy's little girl, since drugs I have always felt it was them against me. Hubby had an attitude when I went out on Sat., told him to go w/me but no, he wanted to stay home w/ his little girl, that's fine but don't reprimand me for getting home at 1 am when the kids stay out much later. Her drug use has opened my eyes to alot of things. I always put everyone in front of me, everyone's happiness was my concern. I do like to see the family happy but not at my expense anymore. We did have a nice Sunday meal together. Funny, the family sees me as being selfish, I see it as survival. Everything does happen for a reason. God will take care of us. Thanks for being here for me, none of you will ever know what it means to me, no matter how much I say it!

[kathleen5hockey]

Hi All, yesterday went well. I actually went to Amy's bf baseball game. Figure keeping the lines of communication open is the best thing. I had my brothers convertable Mercedes, wow, your hair looks really crazy after driving with the top down! Mom has a fracture in her shoulder, will take months to heal but dr. said she can go to the casino, so she is happy. Brother is getting better also, will be a few more weeks till he can drive. Amy was home early last night, she has been doing sewing for church. So we both sat and sewed together. She is just such a wonderful person w/o heroin. Keep on praying for her. The sad thing about addiction is that I don't trust her, I know she is trying but am always on guard. Hubby is still pissing me off too. Will not go horseback riding for a few weeks, still really sore. I am very lucky I didn't break anything. Thanks!

[Lost83]

Glad to hear things are going well for the moment.

[kathleen5hockey]

Hi All, well, Amy cleaned my house yesterday, don't fall off your chair! She was very good, we spent time together and didn't fight at all. While having ice cream I noticed black and blue marks on her arms. Is this what is called skin popping? What is skin popping? How long do these marks last after using? Again, lots of questions.

[iloerose]

i'm glad to hear that Amy's doing some positive things with you! I think as moms it is our nature to want to make everyone else happy. I'm always glad to hear about you going out dancing, riding a horse (ouch! I know you fell twice). Sorry, can't help with the drug related stuff, mine was vics. Keep pushing a little time for yourself. As for hubby, sometimes men don't want to admit what's right under their noses. You are dealing with a lot and staying positive, and you stay positive for us as well. God Bless You. I will pray for both you and Amy

[Freedom4me]

Kathleen,
Your attitude is so great. I know how much you love your daughter. You are a very good momma!!!

[kathleen5hockey]

Another good day! She is up early because we are going to take her senior pics for the yr book. She is in an alternate school but she deserves to be in the yr bk. She had a bad headache last night and went out w/ 2 boys in a car but was home early. Wow, can it be true? Is she really changing? Will keep you posted. As always - thanks for being here.

[Lost83]

Glad to hear things are continuing to go well.

[kathleen5hockey]

Weekend update: Amy is doing good still! She had her pics taken and while there the photographer took exta pics because she is just so beautiful, really photogenic. She saw an old friend while we were there, the girl said she would call and they can go to lunch. It won't happen. Breaks my heart. Amy really wants the old friends back, but really, remember when you were a teen. She has a reputation as a druggie, it won't go away in high school. Hubby wants her to go back to regular school, I don't think it is a good idea. She is trying. I will take her shopping for back to school clothes this week. Want to go away somewhere, anywhere, but am afraid. I never know what she will do. Yes, she is doing good but the guard is always up. Will call my gf with a boat and see if we can join her this weekend. She even went to church with me Sunday. Find myself always trying to look at her arms for marks. Oh well, keep on praying!

[Lost83]

AWESOME!! So happy to hear she is doing well.

[iloerose]

Hi Kathleen. Keeping my fingers crossed and praying for you and Amy. I'm with you on the school thing. I teach in a regular high school. Know exactly how kids can be. Particularly if Amy is experiencing rejections from old friends "I'll call you, we'll do lunch", that can put a lot of pressure on a kid, and if they, and some definitely will, treat her by her druggie rep, it may set her back, make her miserable. There is nothing wrong with Alternative schools. In Mich, we have some very fine ones with caring, compassionate teachers who realize these kids have and have had a tough time of it. If she's been at her alternative school awhile, she may feel comfortable there, have friends there that she can share her senior year with.

I do hope you can get out this weekend. Is it sailing? Well, whatever, I hope you get to have some fun time.

Peace,

IloeRose

[bev49]

I wrote to you on my thread before reading this Kathleen. I am so happy Amy is doing well. It really saddened me to read about the "friend" situation though. It happened to me as well. As a young teen, before drugs, I had alot of really nice friends. Then I started doing drugs, had a needle in my arm at 16, and that was it for the friends. Seeing them always made be so uncomfortable. I was the neighborhood loser. I'll tell you the saddest thing of all. I was 16 with a bad reputation. My sister was 13. She had a 13th birthday party and TWO of the mothers wouldn't let their kids come to a party at my house because they thought I was the boogy man. I hate them for that. They hurt my sister so badly. I wasn't trying to make anyone do what I was doing. But whatever... Both of those kids turned in to drug addicts later on without my help. One is all clean and well now. The other one is dead from Hep C. Anyway, at 17, Amy will be done with HS and all the painful stuff that entails soon and she can move on with her life. Hope she just keeps on going in the right direction. Sorry for being so long here but you brought up some painful memories.

[kathleen5hockey]

Illorose and Bev, thank you for your insight. I really need it! Ill, I think her staying in alternate is the best for her senior yr. Last yr she wanted to go back to the "other" school, she lasted 10 min. the first day and that sent her into a drug binge. She is to fragile. Her father lives in la la land, plus he is a guy, teen guys are more forgiving than teen girls. She needs new friends, easier said than done. I keep pushing for her to get a job and start a new life. One step at a time. Bev, my son feels the same way the parents did. He won't allow any friends over. It's to bad, we used to have so many kids here. I have to remind myself he is her brother, sibling love is not the same as parental love. The son is no angel either. He can't believe how much I do for her, she is my baby and always will be, he is too but he also is 20. Her brain is still that of a 14 yr old. Oh well, guess I just expect more from him. Can't change the past - only the future. Thanks for everything, I have to hear your opinions. Bev, you said it right, we are closer in some ways than the friends we see all the time. I hope this is helping you to heal Bev. You deserve it.

[bev49]

Thanks Kathleen. I just want to tell you one thing. Give your son some extra attention. He needs it. I know he's 20, but I also know my sister grew up as the "invisible" child. My parents, who knew nothing about drugs before me, were so focused on me, trying to get me help, worrying about me, that they sort of ignored her. She was a good kid and very independent so they figured she can handle anything. To make a long story short, at the age of about 20, she started using drugs as well. I know for a fact she was looking for the attention from my parents that I had gotten. But by that time they were tired of me and it, so she never got the attention then either. Thankfully, she went on to get a college degree and a nursing degree but to this day, she is a "functioning" drug addict, has a very responsible job, a husband, son, house and all, but shetakes her pills whenever she can get them, takes methadone when she can get it, and is always looking. Just my advice. You can get so wrapped up in one kid's problems that you forget the other one.

[bev49]

Just one more thing, Kathleen. It is so amazing and interesting. You can take my family in the '60s and '70s and just about superimpose it onto your family in the '2000s and its the same exact thing, right down to the daddy who doesn't wanna believe his little girl is what she is. My dad was the same til the end. While my mom got herself educated eventually and gave me so doses of tough love, I was always Daddy's little girl. It's human nature so give your hubby some slack. I'm praying for Amy and your whole family.