[jbchicken]

Mini-vacations are good. Is there somewhere your son could go so he's not left alone with her?

[Lost83]

So take matters into your own hands, plan the weekend and drag hubby away, he will be happy and may even give him a little tingle to see you take control and demand some alone time...

As for the kids, I understand your concern, I didn't want to leave my son with my husband when I went out of town, luckily I am living with my Dad, my parents basically kicked me out and said they will make sure he didn't leave the house with our son and to just go have a good time. He relapsed 3 days before I was scheduled to leave, I went anyways. She is going to do what she wants regardless, she has already proven that. As for your son, maybe see if he can go stay with friends for the weekend, have a "guys weekend".

Don't overthink it, just go and have fun.

A girls weekend sounds great too but in my opinion, reconnecting with your hubby is going to be more beneficial but if he refuses to go then I would go with my friends.

[Lost83]

Just reread your post, I gotcha, Amy is going to go to a friends for a few days, I thought you meant you were going to call a friend and go away oops...

[jbchicken]

Can you get your son somewhere away from her for the weekend too? It may give you and hubby some piece of mind to know at least he was getting a break and was safe. Y'all take care and let us know how it's going. Yes, you & Robert are right. It comes down to them and their choice. It's a shame we can't fix it for them. - Julia <><

[kathleen5hockey]

You are right, connecting with hubby is the most important. He has never planned a vacation. Have to see how he feels. If he doesn't want to go, will not force him. Have memories of past vacations, they are not that pleasant. Heck, he wanted to leave me in Vegas! Have to put me first.

[Lost83]

Ahhhh leave you in Vegas, that's not very nice... do whats best for you but some time away sounds like a good idea to me. Sheesh, now I want a vacation.... (((daydreaming)))

[bev49]

Dear Kathleen, I have been reading you thread with a heart so heavy, I feel like it could burst. The reason is, I was once Amy almost to a T. I am now nearly 60 years old, but my guilt has lived with me forever. I started using drugs at 13, smoking pot, sniffing glue, drinking. At 16 years old, in 1967, I injected heroin for the first time. In an earlier post you asked what heroin feels like. Well, for me, that first shot hooked me, if not physically then emotionally and mentally. It felt like suddenly you were surrounded by a warm shield that kept every painful thing on the other side. I remember, it was the middle of winter in NY and I didnt feel the chill. I spent 10 years shooting dope. I had come from a good family, similar to yours, was an extreme daddy's girl and I tormented them. I stole money from them, I stole my dad's coin collection and gave it to a dealer at face value for heroin. I stole every piece of my mom's jewelry to pawn. I can't believe I am actually writing this down. The shame is great. I also had sexually transmitted diseases and was raped more than once. I have a younger sister who was pretty much ignored because every bit of my parents' energies went into "fixing" me. They spent thousands on therapies, I spent 18 months in Daytop Village (back then they had programs like that for free). Nothing worked because I was young and thought I was invincible. Like her, I liked the lifestyle because I felt accepted. I was being accepted by a bunch of older, predatory dope fiends but at 17 you don't see it that way. I OD'd several times, ending up in emergency rooms. I was robbed at gunpoint 3 times, was beat up. My parents were always there for me but the bottom line is, I didn't stop until the day I was ready. I couldnt do it on my own. I ended up on a methadone program and, at least in my case, it probably saved my life. I got married, had 2 kids, I became a paralegal and kept the same job for 20 years.

You are a fabulous mother. I always felt if not for my parents I'd be dead long ago. On the other hand, there is a time when you have to step back and realize that there is nothing you can do to make her stop. It has to come from her. People might not agree with me, but in my opinion your daughter is so deep into this darkness that methadone might be her only alternative. At 17 we believe we can go on forever.

I just want to say that there is ALWAYS hope. People do change. And for me, I believe that coming from the strong family background I had helped me. I had that to fall back on. I knew alot of addicts with no family support or love and hence, they had less of a reason to stop.

I'm sorry I hijacked your thread to tell my story. I can't believe I actually said it. I am only happy that when my parents passed, I was no longer shooting dope. I was on methadone but it stabilized me and did its job.

I will pray for you and hope everything works out for the best.

[kathleen5hockey]

Bev, you didn't hijack this thread. I NEEDED to hear from you. I NEED to hear your point of view, what using is all about. Only an ex-addict can tell me. It's the only way I can begin to understand heroin. I was taking her to a clinic every day for Suboxone, then they switched her to methadone but she just stopped going. Again, cannot force her. It's good for me to hear from you and good for you to let it all out. I am so proud of you that you made a life for yourself. I have to hear that people do escape the hold of heroin. Thank you for sharing something that was so hard for you to put into words. Please keep posting.

[bev49]

Kathleen, I had waited so long to post because this thread hit so close to home I could barely believe it. I feel like I know your daughter intimately. She is in pain. She is not happy. But at 17 (or really emotionally 14) she doesn't see things the way we do. I read alot of posts where people said lock her in, follow her, etc., etc. I don't agree. It wouldn't work. In NY we used to have something called the Rockefeller Program where anyone could just have your committed to these jail like drug facilites. My parents had me locked up. It didn't matter. I wasn't ready. The pull of heroin was just too strong. I'm sorry to say that I believe there is nothing you can do until the day Amy sees the light herself. Pray God that she doesn't do too much more damage to herself in the meantime. Let her know you love her (as my parents always did). Let her know you will be there IF and WHEN she is ready to stop. But try as much as you can to make a life for you and your husband and your son in the meantime. The pain will always be there but you have to live for your hubby and son or you all will be caught in this miserable life. Heroin will have a hold on all of you. After 30 years on methadone, I switched to suboxone and now take that at a pretty low dose. This just proves there is always light at the e nd of the tunnel. I just want to say this thread has affected me more than any other because I was Amy and it was a sad place to be. I also think you need to forgive yourself for the decision you made about Amy's pregnancy. I know its a hot hot topic and its a sad thing to go through but I think the alternative would have been so much worse. An addict with the mentality of a 14 year old is not ready to be a mother. I'm sorry I didnt come into this thread sooner. As I see myself in Amy, I also see my mother in you.... And I'm so sorry for your pain and sadness. As I read your posts, I look up to the sky and pray to my parents for forgiveness.... Please have faith

[Robert_325]

bev ..... cool post. Your parents have forgiven you I promise. I can relate though too. I wasn't a heroin addict but my poor parents never even knew what country I was in from about 18 until I was in my late 20s. I was running around packing two pistols on me and waving them around. I was a true product of the 60s. They never knew if I was even alive unless I saw fit to call them every six months or so from wherever I happened to be at the time. If they said anything that made me mad they would not get any calls. I wouldn't listen to anything from anyone.

I was lucky enough to survive and grow out of that part of my life. And my parents survived. On my 21st birthday I didn't even call home. My mom was crying so badly my dad moved them into a new house that day that they had been looking at to buy. Of course I was cruising around in Mexico City in a limo with my girlfriend drinking Krystal champagne, doing cocaine and raising hell. I was so inconsiderate of them, basically a total jerk.

Kathleen ..... there is always hope as long as Amy is breathing. If I survived, if bev survived then Amy can as well. Her time will come hopefully. You guys remain in my prayers. God bless.

[bev49]

Robert, I identify with you so much. Even though our drugs of choice were different, we certainly led parallel lives back then. You are truly inspiring to me and I'm sure everyone else here. You are about my age, lived through the '60's (they were a fun time in alot of ways, werent they?) and came out the other end relatively intact. You especially, even more than me. I haven't been on the threads long enough to knew your whole story. How did you finally get off everything? Was the sub withdrawal painless for you? Or at least bearable. I'd love to hear that story when you have time. Kathleen, again, keep your chin up and live your life. You can't live Amy's life anymore.

[jbchicken]

Addiction to whatever affects everyone in the family. Thank God y'all have the courage and ability to post that there is light and life on the other side of this for not only the addict but the family. Thank you both for sharing. May God bless your continued healing.
<><

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by bev49

Robert, I identify with you so much. Even though our drugs of choice were different, we certainly led parallel lives back then. You are truly inspiring to me and I'm sure everyone else here. You are about my age, lived through the '60's (they were a fun time in alot of ways, werent they?) and came out the other end relatively intact. You especially, even more than me. I haven't been on the threads long enough to knew your whole story. How did you finally get off everything? Was the sub withdrawal painless for you? Or at least bearable. I'd love to hear that story when you have time. Kathleen, again, keep your chin up and live your life. You can't live Amy's life anymore.

I try to stay in the solution rather than the past. But I will give you the short version. I wouldn't have been any worse if I HAD been a heroin addict. I was taking over 1000mg of oxycodone and 30 plus lorcets each day plus 15-20mg xanax and 6-8mg klonopin plus 20-25 soma each day and other assorted garbage. I drank at least a fifth of scotch a day for 30 years, used cocaine for decades in MASS quantities. Nearly had to have my face reconstructed from so much damage snorting. I won't even talk here about the condition of my face from the cocaine. Drs were screaming in my face that I was going to die after my heart stopped twice. I almost died both times.

I used subs the second time I got clean. The first time I did a cold turkey and it literally almost killed me from side effects. Drs were amazed that I even made it after I also suffered a stroke following multiple seizures. I spent almost three months in hospitals. It was pretty rough to say the least.

When I did the subs it was a piece of cake with no exaggeration. I did it exactly like I advise others to do subs here. I had a bump in the road a couple times. Seems like it hit me hard at about 2mg and then again around 1mg. I just had to stay at those levels a little extra time. But I blew right through the rest of it.

I'm not trying to preach here but it's a fact for me that getting saved right after my final detox really saved me. God took everything away from me that was bad. I have NEVER had craving one since I gave my life to Jesus Christ. I still can hardly believe that God would forgive someone like me. I have to give Him the glory for anything I do that is good because of myself I am a bottom-feeding scumbag piece of garbage. It was only through God's mercy that I was able to forgive myself and start trying to help others. I should be dead. I know that God helped me so I would be able to glorify His name and His work through me.

I've told my story in prisons, worked with police and probation/parole departments helping newly-released convicts. The police know my story and I'm tight with lots of them today. Who would have thought THAT would ever happen. LOL

That's a very condensed version but you get the point. Take care and hang in there. You can get past the 1mg. It's not that 1mg is a bad thing, it's just the principle of it. That little piece of a pill is still telling you when and how you can live your life. When you're ready to finish let me know. And if you decide to stay on it I certainly would never judge. God bless.

[bev49]

thank you for that post, jb..... I never in my whole life thought I would post what I have on this thread. It has been living inside me for 40 years, the guilt and the shame. I barely ever discussed it with anyone I knew, not my husband or my sister even, and I never thought I would tell it to strangers. But you wanna know something? It felt really really good, letting it all come out. Cleansing my sould sort of. And if I helped Kathleen even a little bit, then thats a great thing. I wish my parents were alive to see me now but I have to believe that they do see me. I have 2 grown children, one has been in the military for 19 years, the other is a NYC Court Officer. They are both good kids (adults) and when I used to feel at my lowest and feel like a loser, my dad always used to say "look at the good kids you raised. That's a great accomplishment". I suppose he was right. Although I strayed from the path, my strong family background allowed me to raise two good human beings and for that I am grateful. Kathleen, what happened with Amy is not your fault in any way shape or form. You did all you could but sometimes life intercedes. Just never blame yourself.... Just from your posts here, I would say you are nothing short of a wonderful and loving mom and one day Amy will appreciate it.

[bev49]

Rob, I have one word for you and I've said it before - INSPIRATIONAL.... I wish I had the religious faith. I know it works. I've been searching for a long time regarding that but there is something holding me back. I believe in God, am a spiritual person but something holds me back. I was raised in the Jewish faith, don't practice that anymore. I have studied with Jehovah's Witnesses, have been involved with a Christian preacher I suppose you'd call him. (Someone who has discussed Christianity with me alot). I have alot of left over Jewishness in me, also have Christian beliefs. I guess you could say I'm confused but a believer at the same time. I KNOW that would be the answer. I am still striving....

[melinda7.5]

Hi Bev
I go to a church right now that my pastor was raised Jewish and now is a Christian there is an association for people that were Jewish and have converted to Christianity Ill try to find out what it is called for you...
you can look up my church on line it is called a church for all nations...
I just got excited when I seen you were raised Jewish my pastor is great he knows so much about the old testament.
hope you are doing well
Melinda

[Robert_325]

bev ..... If you continue to search you will find your answer. I know lots of people who come from the Jewish faith that have converted to Christianity. The New Testament is just a fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies. It just takes that "special something" for it to happen for you. I will keep you in my prayers.

Wish we could talk about it in person as I try to not get into all this on the forum. If you ever want to talk about it email me ANYTIME. God bless.

[kathleen5hockey]

You all have brought tears to my eyes. I need all of you so much, you will never know. Bev, I am glad it helped to write things down, you have to forgive yourself. As a parent I can tell you 100% your parents forgive you. No matter what Amy does I always love her. I was a Catholic who found a wonderful Episcopal church. This church has been by my side, they are my rock, especially the Reverend. They have gathered for prayer sessions, held me when I cried and taught me how to pray. It takes time to find a church but you have to start looking. There was a man who spoke here who is Jewish but believes in Jesus. It was very interesting to hear him speak. Bev, look at all you have accomplished. You cannot change the past only your future. Thank you for being here.

[bev49]

Kathleen, Rob and Melinda.... As I write, I am on the verge of tears. Not sad ones though. I just feel, I don't know how to put it into words. I feel full... My posts on this thread have been very emotional, to say the least. Readinig about Kathleen and Amy has been more than enlightening. It's touched my heart and soul. It's so odd that you can talk to people online, people you never see face to face, and you can feel the caring and concern. I get communications from a group called Jews for Jesus who I had sought out in the past while searching for my truth. I will delve into it further now. At 60 years old, I have less time left than what has passed so I feel its important for me to find something to immerse my spirtuality into. As I have said, I am very spiritual. I know there is something so much more than just us. I want to feel the forgiveness. I will start to do my research. I pray for all of you as you pray for me.... Thank you for being there.

[Robert_325]

bev ... I was 54 when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. So it's never too late to find the truth. Feel free to email me direct if I can help you with your search. I am always available to discuss Christ and spiritual matters in general. I pray the Lord will touch your heart as He did mine and bring you the joy that comes with salvation. Take care. God bless.

[kathleen5hockey]

Last night I got a call from a man who was yelling at me to keep Amy away from his son because she is selling cigs. I said "what are you talking about?" He was not very nice so I tried to end the call asap. She came home around midnight and was walking all around keeping us awake. She then left at 1 am and returned at 2:30 with bf yelling and cursing outside. It was not very pleasant, no, I did not get involved. After that she was crying in her room, asked what was the matter but all I get is nothing. She was walking around the house all night keeping us awake, smoking in her room. Smoking is not aloud in my house by anyone, even me. Her voice sounded like the crack voice she gets, heroin would just make her pass out. So today we are both exhausted. She has no respect for anyone, not even herself. I have got to get her out of here. Bev, any ideas on how to get thru to her? Did your parents throw you out and if so did it make things worse for you? My husband (who is her father) and I are to old for this. Being in our 50's we need our sleep! Have to go to work today, hubby went out on the cycle already.

Bev, I am so happy this forum is helping you heal and forgive yourself. You have been sent here along with all the others to help, I feel to help me, but others are being helped along the way. Thanks to all for listening to me.

[bev49]

Kathleen, yes, at one point my parents did throw me out. They had been major enablers through most of my craziness. Then I went into a drug free rehab (Daytop - an 18 month to 2 year drug free live in program which believe it or not they had back then. They should still have that. It was either free or insurance covered, got donations from the community and was gov't subsidized, but didnt cost my parents a penny out of pocket) But anyway, my parents went to parrents groups and were told, if your child leaves this place, do not let them home. The only way someone will change is if you force them to hit their bottom. Lo and behold, as usual, I split from there before I "graduated" to do my "thing". I showed up at my door and my parents said you can't come in until you are ready to go back. So I became "homeless" for awhile. Crashed at drug friends places, shooting galleries and the like. It was really rough. I was just 18 or19. I eventually couldnt take it anymore and went home and back to Daytop and finished up. I am sorry to say that after Daytop I was clean for awhile then returned to drugs. Continued for another 5 or 6 years til I had REALLY hit bottom and got on methadone and the rest is the history you all know. I did quit methadone one time about 8 years in. It was a disaster and I was back on dope pronto. Got back on meth and stayed on that forever (til last year when I switched to sub) Truth is my parents did the right thing. I was killing the family. My sister was an invisible person because of me. She tells me when I was not home, my mom used to stare at the wall and space out frm depression. Her and my dad never went anyplace or did anything. And sad to say at the age of 21, after graduating college and nursing school my sister started using drugs. She wanted the attention I had been getting for some many years but by that time, my parents were wiped out and done.

I honestly and truly dont mean to sound harsh but I believe you do need to throw her out for everyones sanity. And it just might expidite her "bottom". And even it doesnt do that just yet, it might eventually and in the meantime you need your life back. It's very obvious that she isn't ready yet to stop and there is no reason for you to have to be in the middle. You will worry when she isn't there but you worry now anyway.

I wish you nothing but the best... If not now then soon.

[melinda7.5]

Hi Kathleen
there was a part of your last post that really made me mad...the Man that called you and told you to keep your daughter away from his daughter, I wish you would have told him to tell his daughter to quit smoking and he wouldn't have anything to worry about...I want to tell you a story about KC my oldest son its kind of long sorry but what happened to you reminded me of it...
All of the kids in his group were getting into trouble but there was this one girl that would sneak over in the middle of the night and call all night long but she would tell her dad that KC would just not leave her alone.so I told you before I was one of those nosy moms and this girl would write KC letters all the time saying very nasty things and she wrote in his year book...(KC come over to my house tonight and FUCCK me screw my dad he is an ass hole )
well her dad decided to come to my house to give me a talking to....and I just smiled at him and told him I was waiting for him to come over for a long time and I went and got the yearbook and let him read it he said it was not her writing and went home and got his wife and she took one look at it and put her head down and they both told me how sorry they were.but the point I'm trying to make is don't let some guy try to blame you for what his daughter is doing.i don't know how the laws work in your state but I think you have had enough and as heart breaking as it is you need to get her out of your house.as I said befor there is life after kids...
don't take any ******** from anyone hold your head high. everyone has there problems in family's they just don't talk about then...
talk to you later, Melinda

[kathleen5hockey]

Hi All, here is an update. Amy did not go to church with me, said she had cramps. She did go out w b/f and stayed out most of the day. Had a nice chat with a woman at church whose son has the same problem. She said we have to look at this as a disease. If she had cancer the Govt. would force me to help her. Anyway, started thinking, Amy has addiction in her genes. My grandfather and father od on pills. My cousin died from alchohol disease at the age of 50 and my aunt killed herself last yr., one brother is an alchie and the other likes Ox's. I do have alot of experience with drugs. In my younger days I was in the radio/music business. Things were nutty back then, bring an album in to be played and inside was coke. So yes, drugs were in my past also. I always tried to tell her about this, trying to keep her away from the craziness of drugs. No matter how much anyone tries to keep the drugs away they make their way in. That's why the first needle got her.

Just wanted you to know. Everyone has told their story. Some of my posts made it seem to me that I was comming across as a goodie 2 shoes. We all have a past. Thanks to all of you!

[MaisieC]

Originally Posted by kathleen5hockey

Hi All, here is an update. Amy did not go to church with me, said she had cramps. She did go out w b/f and stayed out most of the day. Had a nice chat with a woman at church whose son has the same problem. She said we have to look at this as a disease. If she had cancer the Govt. would force me to help her. Anyway, started thinking, Amy has addiction in her genes. My grandfather and father od on pills. My cousin died from alchohol disease at the age of 50 and my aunt killed herself last yr., one brother is an alchie and the other likes Ox's. I do have alot of experience with drugs. In my younger days I was in the radio/music business. Things were nutty back then, bring an album in to be played and inside was coke. So yes, drugs were in my past also. I always tried to tell her about this, trying to keep her away from the craziness of drugs. No matter how much anyone tries to keep the drugs away they make their way in. That's why the first needle got her.

Just wanted you to know. Everyone has told their story. Some of my posts made it seem to me that I was comming across as a goodie 2 shoes. We all have a past. Thanks to all of you!

This post really resonated with me. I was a child during the 60s and have two much-older sisters. I saw what drugs did to some of their friends. I also saw a friend from high school die in a traffic accident as a result of her being high. Then when my college boyfriend got into drugs, I tried to tell him. My boyfriend just thought he was so slick and ignored me, but I had already seen too much.

It seems that every successive generation thinks they invented it and that they are sooooooo much cooler than the stupid old people who are trying to warn them. I don't know what to do about this problem. If we could somehow get through to young people, a lot of suffering could be avoided.

[bev49]

I get your post entirely. I too am a child of the '60s who got caught in every trap plus some. The whole unfortunate point is that you can't tell young people anything. Their brains down work like ours. Of course they didn't invent anything new. But its alot worse now. We had our drugs but we didn't have crack and all these new super addictive pain pills. On the other hand we had so much fewer treatment options. In any case, younger people swear they are invincible and will live forever. They think they have "time" to change.... And many do, but so many do not. They die or end up in jail or just get so damaged.... If only we could make them know what we know... But, so sad, we can't.

[kathleen5hockey]

You are correct! The young don't understand, I didn't either. Never thought I woud live to be 50! But, here I am.

Update on daughter. While we were putting her air conditioner in hubby found a needle. She is leaving this stuff all over. So bold! She also has a weird smell. Yep, her skin smells. It's hard to explain. I made her take a shower and she still smelled the same. The Wellbutrin is working for me. The nerves are calmer now. It really is helping with not smoking.

Is she crying out for help?

[Lost83]

Hi Kathleen,

My hubby was taking Roxi's and I noticed he STUNK!! I told him several times. I haven't heard any facts regarding drug use and stinkage (is that even a word lol?) but I think it makes sense when you abuse a substance that it could affect the way you smell.

Sorry she is being so careless, she knows you know so she just doesn't care to try and cover it up anymore, I suppose it could be a cry for help. In the same respect, you have bent over backwards to help her and she rejects it. I wouldn't read too much into the fact that she isn't covering up her habits. If she wants your help and is serious about it, she knows the lengths you will go to help her (and the lengths you have already gone) so as far as I can see she knows the door is open if she truly wants help. I hope she does come to you sooner than later but you know, only she can make that choice.

[80-O/USER]

it does really mess with ur head!everyone reacts diff.to the drug it becomes ur life if u let it.i have been on oxy for the last 2 years,none knew i hide from every1.i am a mother i knew my drug prob. would only get worse if i didn't stop,so i decided to go to a doc. and get on suboxone i am tapering myself down.i could not imagin my life with out my kids in it.i hope evrything works out for u.maybe u should talk to her about getting on sub.cause it don't make u high.

[jbchicken]

Originally Posted by kathleen5hockey

You are correct! The young don't understand, I didn't either. Never thought I woud live to be 50! But, here I am.

Update on daughter. While we were putting her air conditioner in hubby found a needle. She is leaving this stuff all over. So bold! She also has a weird smell. Yep, her skin smells. It's hard to explain. I made her take a shower and she still smelled the same. The Wellbutrin is working for me. The nerves are calmer now. It really is helping with not smoking.

Is she crying out for help?

I noticed the "smell" with my son when he was using heavily. I couldn't identify it either. I think that it all just leaches out of their system through their hair, saliva and pores. Don't think it "washes off" unfortunately. As for her crying out for help. Have gone "eyeball to eyeball" and just asked her if she wants help? That is what "got" my son. Good luck Kat. Am praying for y'all. Julia <><