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17 Days clean of suboxone - My Story and what is really getting me there.
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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Default 17 Days clean of suboxone - My Story and what is really getting me there.

    First 17 days, off a daily dose of .5-1.0mg Suboxone. (Also - Aderall, Weed, any other illict drug besides a occasional beer or glass of wine - and only because I decide I want one - and ONLY one.)

    4 years of daily suboxone, started high 8mg, got down to the minimal dose couldn't seem to go more than hour or two in the morning before the axiety would drive me to taking or finding a replacement (small other opiate dose if suboxone was no where to be found, for opiate withdrawl control.

    The #1 thing that helped me - hands down - THERAPY. I hate to say go pay a doc $240 dollars for a visit, but I am now on a proper anti-depressant (I know thats not the right option for everyone, but its working for me, Effexor - AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, discovering three simple things about myself -

    #1 - I become so terrified of women because of the lazy eye I thought I had (when in reality a childhood surgery had elimintated it, but I always felt people could see it - and because of that I ALWAYS ran from any kind of female contact.

    #2. 2nd Child Syndrome. I am the second son in my family of two, and anytime I did something my father would ALWAYS point out the problem. If I mowed the lawn to perfection, he would ALWAYS find a flaw - and never seemed to with my older brother. Talking with my father now - he is now concious of this, and now LEADS with postive (aka the yard looks awesome, but you left the cord out! - I also have ADHD so it makes it hard sometimes to completely finisih a job, - which he now understands.

    #3. Doctor Perscribed Medication. Effexor - 150mg taken at night - I know many will say my withdrawls are at a minimum because effexor has the similar properties to tramadol. I frankly dont care, because Effoxor also treats GAD (gereal axiety disorder - something I had symptoms of long before I ever tried drugs - (before my first hit of weed at 20)

    What I am trying to say, and I know its hard to understand when in withdrawls, as nothing seems to matter - but I believe you have to discover WHY you feel the need for that drug, or any drug, besides the withdrawls.

    Withdrawls can be very mentally heavy, and you mind convinces you theres no way out, but there is.

    I still have my hard moments, and struggle with depression, but honestly I have to say I am more alive than I have ever been.

    For me, discovering my ADHD, my issues with my parents, and women in general, has helped tremendously.

    Now the thought of taking suboxone makes me mad, at the time I have wasted, the things I could have accomplished. I simply have no need anymore.

    I believe, for me, (after 4 tries of minimal dose and day skipping never worked) that the withdrawls werent my problem but the fact that my mind knew it had NOTHING to calm down with. Again, I know the effoxors 'effects' - but ALL of this has been told to my therapist - and with his help discovering where my true axiety was coming from - WOMEN.

    When as a man you feel you can't get a girl (even though I'm 6'4 and been told im attractive...) it will drive you insane.

    Anyways, discovering my true issues, and learning of my axiety disorder, father issues, and women issues - has made me feel more alive then ever before.

    It can be done, but for me personally, it wasnt just the drug - I believe it was the return to the life around me, that I simply had no way of dealing with mentally - and now that I'm understanding my childhood issues, and what really drove me to drugs in the first place (and eventually the hard drugs, once the light ones stopped working).

    I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but I know I now have the ability to handle, deal, and cope with it.

    And that is simply a beautiful way to live.

    Matthew Roseborough

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    wisetree is offline New Member
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    Way to go Matthew. I'm proud of you. You sound happy and confident. Stay strong.

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Good job, Matthew - glad to hear you're utilizing therapy to help you. While it's important to look at the underlying issues that prompted the drug use initially, you need to realize that uncovering those things will not 'heal' the addiction in any way. Rather, it points out to you some specific areas that need your focus, if you are to remain clean.

    Also - if you want to stay clean of the other drugs, you need to stop any drinking. Even that "one" drink is keeping the key in the ignition to your drug addiction. Abstinance from any and all mood-altering, addictive drugs is the only way to silence this disease. All drugs of addiction operate on the same neural pathway in the brain - acting on the nucleus accumbens, the area of the brain involved in functions ranging from motivation and reward to feeding and drug addiction. The release of dopamine and serotonin in the nucleus accumbens lies at the root of active drug addiction.

    If you tickle that motivational system (such as a drink of alcohol) - once you have thrown the switch on addiction - you are on your way back to your drug of choice OR escalating use of the new substance. It's just a matter of time.

    I urge you to rethink the idea of continuing any kind of alcohol. You're doing a lot of work to deal with your drug addiction, and I'd hate to see you sabotage your efforts.

    Also, I hope you are involved in a 12-step group such as NA, AA or CR. The 12 steps program is a step-by-step process of undergoing the changes within that will help us to stay in recovery from this monster of a disease.

    I wish you all the best, Matthew.

    God bless,
    Ruth

    You will know the truth - and only the truth can set you free.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Thank you ruth and wisetree.

    Ruth, you are right - even though I could stop at one or two (it was mainly to prove to others that I could). Showing them I could stop at one, proved to myself I could as well - but I have discovered now that it was the people around me that stopped me at one - not actually myself. I have stopped even the one drink, as it puts me into that 'intoxicated decision mode' when I am alone.

    A few nights ago I had a drink alone, because I 'believed' I could control myself - and I had half the bottle left to myself -(% Chardonnay not liquor) (as actually had money rather than blowing every dime I had to feel better) and found myself unable to stop until the bottle was gone. I didn't feel the urge to go get more, but it depressed me knowing I had just finished half a bottle.

    I know the mentaily of a drug addict and once they start they cant stop - another thing I have discovered is I cannot control my drinking alone, because it releases that good feeling. When people are around I can have one, because it feels good to be in control, and the converstation with people around me keeps me occupied an not drinking ---- (this may sound wierd but the one drink thing came from going to bars just o meet women and gain experience I never had - honestly at the bar I could stop at one because I had friends, girls, and a game of pool going that intrested me and kept me happy - but when alone that seems to go out the window, because I know I can get away with it, I think.)

    I know people recovering need to stay away from any mood altering substances (and keep in mind the one drink thing wasnt daily - but an example would be last week going to the beach with family and attending a family dinner with drinks) - but, and I realllllllly hate to say this, I honestly don't feel like I was a true drug addict - I know you have to accept responsibilty and take action for your faults, but to me it was never one particular drug (as I cycled addictions from weed, to alchol to oxy, to suboxone, to aderall) but my real need for something to calm down with as I am discovering with therapy I honestly was living in a state of axiety/panic attack all day long BEFORE I ever even hit my first hit of weed).

    I know all of this seems like a justification to use alchol, because its legal, and I think I can control it - understand I recognize these things, as I have done outpatient before and have learned the twelve step program style tools.

    I know I find a justification for use of something - but like the effoxor is doing for me, I truly have a axiety disorder in the first place - because simply put - when it came to women I IMMEDIATLY flighted, instead of deciding to 'fight or flight'.

    All my life everything has been provided for me, and because of that I think I became unable to truely make a decision for myself, and live for myself. Everything from the Rent to my car has been provided by my parents because they simply cannot give up on me, its just not in them - something I am SO grateful for, as many people out there have no one, no place to live no car and more importantly, no one who cares.

    I am truly discovering the person I want to be, and becoming TRULY one of those people who wants to share what works for them, if my story might help just one person - it will help me too.

    My thoughts (as you can tell are still kind of random) but getting all this out and just posting is helping as well. I am very VERY close to attending AA just because I want to tell my story, and have someone listen.

    Thank you

    Matthew
    Last edited by matt4848; 08-20-2012 at 06:50 PM.

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    I honestly don't feel like I was a true drug addict - I know you have to accept responsibilty and take action for your faults, but to me it was never one particular drug (as I cycled addictions from weed, to alchol to oxy, to suboxone, to aderall) but my real need for something to calm down with as I am discovering with therapy I honestly was living in a state of axiety/panic attack all day long BEFORE I ever even hit my first hit of weed).


    Matthew,

    I hear a whole lot of justifying and rationalizing going on... and not a whole lot of clear thinking. In fact, your way of thinking is, hate to say it, 'classic' addictive thinking.

    First off, what 'classifies" a person as a drug addict has absolutely NOTHING to do with preferring one particular drug. Addiction is addiction - it does not matter what the substance is. In fact, oftentimes, we don't become addicted to *one* special drug - we use whatever's around. Your history, as you explained it, is exactly how addiction runs... jumping from one drug to another. It's one of the many ways that we fool ourselves as addicts. This keeps us our denial, by thinking, "How can I be an addict - I'm not always using something - or I can stop one substance without a problem." It's still addiction. The addiction is the disease within you that seeks a chemical means of altering the way you feel, period.

    In fact, one of the funny-but-true phrases of recovery circles is, "If I'm not near the drug I love - I love the drug I'm near."

    ALL addicts used drugs to change how we felt. It could be that we were depressed - so we used a drug to feel up. It could be that we were shy - so we picked up a drug to be more out-going. Or it could be that we had anxiety - so we picked up a drug to calm our nerves. IT DOESN'T MATTER. The "WHY" behind it does not change the fact that we are, indeed, addicted.

    You are only fooling yourself to think that because anxiety was at the root of your drug use then you aren't really an addict. That is a big lie that your disease is telling you. It does not matter WHY we began. What matters is that we now have the obsession and compulsion to use some chemical means to alter how we feel.

    For me, my drug use was begun by legitimate prescriptions by my own doctor for very real, legitimate chronic migraines. NEVERTHELESS, I became an addict. I didn't use *one* substance. Sometimes it was vicodan, sometimes it was percs, sometimes it was pot, sometimes it was valium... it does not matter!!!

    Just a few months ago, you were posting here how you found that ADHD was the "cause" of your addictions and you felt perfectly justified using aderall. You said it was not an addiction for you; you could take it just as prescribed. But now, 3 months later, you have admit that you had an addiction to aderall. Can you see all the justifying and rationalizing you're doing???

    As for your words about how you 'control' your drinking socially - let me pass on another well-worn statement of recovery: "If you have to CONTROL what you're using/drinking - you've already lost control." Social drinkers do not have to think about controlling their drinking; it comes naturally. There is no compulsion to overdo it. And we are not alcoholics ONLY if/when we drink alone; if we are an alcoholic, it is always a part of us. So being more restrained around others does not constitute normal drinking.

    It's all a mind game. We (each of us addicts here) have a disease that wants us to believe we don't have a disease. Your disease is making your thinking twist and turn to justify what you WANT to do. That's really dangerous territory for us as addicts.

    You clearly went through some effort, using suboxone, to overcome your opiate addiction. Until you ABSTAIN from ALL mood-altering, addictive substances, your disease is still alive and well and wreaking havoc on your thinking. Recovery is abstinance, plain and simple.

    God bless,
    Ruth
    shybaybe2003 likes this.

    You will know the truth - and only the truth can set you free.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    The only problem is I am also hooked on Cigarettes and Caffinee - so no matter what I'm already in an altered mood. Simply put, I wont live without caffinee, I'd rather die first.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Ok not die, but I simply cant complate life without coffee/soda.

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    Sunny mom is offline Member
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    Matt, do you really think Ruth was referring to caffeine when she was talking about abstaining from mind-altering substances?
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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    The main problem I struggle with is how to relax and enjoy myself mentally, once my days work is done. I'm having no problem getting up, sleeping and eating properly - and doing my 9-5 work - its just that point after 5pm when I want to watch TV or do something when I'm alone I enjoy - I just find the things I really liked borning now - which is ok, because thats one of things that got me into this situation - but its still hard to enjoy things - although PEOPLE I really enjoy - I feel like I've gone from a total anti-socail human to someone who is constantly looking for attention from others - making them laugh, or think or simply respond.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Honestly Yes - to say Cafinee is not a mood altering substance is rediculous.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    I'm not trying to argue, just give my thoughts and feelings in the hopes you guys will show me a different line of thinking or perhaps and idea that works for me.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    and also the effoxor has also seemed to put me in a '???? what people think' mode (PLEASE REMEBER NOT YOU GUYS! I really appreciate the insight) - but one of my problems has always been what people think of me, and 'letting go' when I do something embrassing or rude - I've always had a problem letting go and 'not caring what assholes think' (again NOT YOU GUYS!!!)

    I'm 6'4 205 pounds, and in the last two months I have realised how much - men in particular - invade my personal space, to (I think) subciously or conciously 'push me' to prove they arnt threatened.

    For the first time in my life (as it was also a problem before drugs) I stand up straight, with my head held high, I think about things like self-respect, forgiving ones-self, and most importantly NOT TAKING BULL???? from ANYONE. I respect people that respect me - but when assholes of the world insulted me before, I simply had no comeback - now I literally want people to insult me, just so I can knock them down about 5 pegs. I dont want to pick a fight, but its almost like I'm waiting for someone to insult me just so I can embrass them logically - so even if they do throw a punch - they have so much self-doubt that it misses.

    I've also had an addictive personality since childhood, everything I wanted (within reason) was provided. I always had a Christmas with $300 dollars under the tree for me. I was a video game junkie before I ever started drugs, hoping from the coolest game out to the next - theres no doubt I'm sort of an adrendline junkie. I'm just trying to figure out how best to live without substances so my natural ability to enjoy adrenaline from activies is normal.
    Last edited by matt4848; 08-22-2012 at 05:31 PM.

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    I'm thinking my next best move is to attend AA/NA for the 2nd time in my life. I do feel like going, standing up and saying "My name is X, and its been 47 hours since I had XXX." However I almost feel like I am lying (not the alchol part, I would admit to the last time I did) but the effoxor - How can you really say your clean when your on an anti-depressant? You can always say, "This is medication, provided by a doctor who understands my situation..." but the same could be said for someone with an Oxy perscription for "fibryomyaja" (and yes my hookup literally had 100 - 80mg OXY's a month for FIBRYOMYAGA.
    Last edited by matt4848; 08-22-2012 at 05:34 PM.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Gonna stop now since the thoughts are just flooding me.. but to anyone still reading thank you.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    (ok now I'm seeing this is just another excuse)

    But this I have to ask honestly - If your a 30 year old Virgin - how can you not say that you have 'social axiety'? When every instance you ever had (BEFORE WEED, my first drug) you ran from females - and not just in the normal 'guys are scared' way but the 'OMG I'm having a panic attack' ANYTIME I even looked at a female. (I'm straight, and comfortable with my sexuality, as I'm not afraid to admit I've 'had fun' with material that is considered gay - however that is one thing I absoultly love about myself - I wouldn't have a problem dancing in a gay bar - as it would be fun to me, knowing myself.)
    Last edited by matt4848; 08-22-2012 at 05:41 PM.

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    Sunny mom is offline Member
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    I was trying to point out to you that focusing on caffeine while not addressing the alcohol seems counter-productive. Continuing to drink when you're battling addiction is a real danger, I don't think caffeine presents the same danger to addicts as alcohol does, though I have read posts here from those who have said they thought it would be wise for them to abstain from caffeine, too. I certainly think caffeine is the lesser of the two evils, though.
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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    I think the hardest part for me is understanding things like "Self esteem, Respect, Love, Self-Control" for the first time truly in my life, but yet when I'm alone and have the choice - (and not always) but I still have moments where I know I have alchol.. and I know it would just feel good.

    I'm also thankful I have cut off all drug hookups - and refuse to answer the phone to anyone still around those things... its just this damn beer/wine/liquor.... it just feels so nice to still have something...

    (and yes I do understand exactly what I just said... it just how do you defeat that choice selection.. especailly when you feel the self control for anything else - opiates, weed, anything else)

    This may not be the right thinking (even I know it isnt) but the one thing keeping me sane - is the fact - I KNOW - I no longer ever need suboxone - (another justification) and that thought, the idea of how many out there that feel they will never get off suboxone/methadone drives me to want to be a better person, I'm just still struggling with exactly how.
    Last edited by matt4848; 08-22-2012 at 05:55 PM.

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    i agree sunny mom. the caffeine is not an issue at all right now.

    matt. why not check out a meeting. and just be honest. thats all ya have to do....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4848 View Post
    I think the hardest part for me is understanding things like "Self esteem, Respect, Love, Self-Control" for the first time truly in my life, but yet when I'm alone and have the choice - (and not always) but I still have moments where I know I have alchol.. and I know it would just feel good.

    I'm also thankful I have cut off all drug hookups - and refuse to answer the phone to anyone still around those things... its just this damn beer/wine/liquor.... it just feels so nice to still have something...

    (and yes I do understand exactly what I just said... it just how do you defeat that choice selection..)
    um. easy. you dont have any alcohol in the house....

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Your completely right - cafinee isnt nearly as bad as achol - but I guess my point is - being on effoxor, hooked on cafinee and cigarettes, no matter what I do I'm already in an altered state.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Good point. Except I live with parents and a liquor cabinet. Perhaps take the jump to tell them to get rid of it? But then its telling my father what to do... perhaps the better idea is to rember my own choices.
    Last edited by matt4848; 08-22-2012 at 06:01 PM.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    I'm sooo close to taking the AA jump, I just cant seem to get the want without a drink - and then the regret prevents me.

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    Quick List of all my addictions:

    Porn - (internet, as I cant seem or to afriad to get laid as a 30 year old virgin.. with hormonal bumps in sexual area (doctor diagnosed, nothing I can really do, except surgery, and then they return months later)
    Weed - 10 Years since I was 20 - Although I can say for the first time since starting I am 21 days clean, as I quit at the same time of suboxone.)
    Alchol - the last resort of choice when nothing else was there.... ----- OK... that just hit me.

    ... alchol when nothing else was there..... hrmmmmmmm.....

    Opiates - after discovering I could get 80mg of Oxy for $15, and more importantly turning it for a huge profit, keeping my own addiction covered.

    Aderall - I thought I could control it, but simply put, whenever the dopeamine/speed effect wained I was snorting more. Obviously not controlable.

    Cocaine - If it was around, and I had the money - there was no choice.

    Computers/Screen/TV/Movies - I simply love to sit watch, and analyize TV/Movies, I love understanding everything from the actors and production itself, to the story.

    Never tried LSD, did shrooms once and simply dont like halicinating.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Ok... I think all this has made to realize.. stop the alcohol. Period. Attend AA. Now If I can just do it.

    Truly and heartfelt - thank you guys, I know I'm rambling a lot, but this is making me really think.

  25. #25
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    matt. are you working. ? you are 30 and live with your parents. no offence but thats kindof a turn off to any prospective dates mate.

    maybe you need to get out a bit more.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 08-22-2012 at 06:23 PM.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Nope, I'm so close to taking the job jump -as I can get one hands down at a simple request - (lucky with that, friend who owns business is willing to help). I know what your thinking - A job, 9-5 keeping myself active, will release those natural good feelings - so that the after 6pm feels good because I have truly done something. The days I keep myself active, and away from old habbits (like TV watching) the better I feel.

    The hardest part of taking the job jump, is I am so terrifed of feeling like ???? at work, even though I KNOW thats something you simply have to deal with. Everyday I feel I am regaining my ability to handle and deal with axiety, and boredom - I just cant seem to agree to that 9-5, stuck here, must work, mentaility, even though I know its simply not a choice, you HAVE to WORK. Just because right now I'm provided with a house, electricity, and decent enjoyment, doesnt give me the right to sit on my ass, and continue to just 'exsist'. I must move forward.

    It just hit me, the reason I want to drink is to forget where I am, to take me out of this thinking, and that simply not right, running simply isnt the answer.
    Last edited by matt4848; 08-22-2012 at 06:33 PM.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Sorry again to keep spouting, but just posting this stuff, and reading it as I type, is making me really think.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    I'm starting to think the real adjustment I'm dealing with, is learning how to live for tomorrow, and not just today. So many times in my life I have said "???? it, I feel good for the rest of the day."

    And now, I'm really and truly thinking and learning how to live not just for today, but tomorrow and the day beyond.

    I'm going to try to end with one more thought.

    "At least for once in my life, I'm not suppressing these thoughts, I'm engaging them, dealing and trying to cope."
    Last edited by matt4848; 08-22-2012 at 06:42 PM.

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    matt4848 is offline Member
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    Heh - I don't tell them I live with my parents. (as I literally live in a guest house - and can always say its rented.) Sadly, one of my best skills is manipulation.

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    This is what is truly (I think I'm struggling with) -

    The FACT:

    I can - feel good - with just Effoxor and Alchol. To me that is a HUGE improvement, and thats the problem.

    I was hooked on Screen Addiction, Suboxone, Artifical Weed, adreall, and alchol.

    So the improvement of just Dr. Medication and Alchol makes me believe im doing better when I truly know I'm not.

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