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wanting to get off pain management opiods
wanting to get off pain management opiods
what maximum amount of oxy.& morphin aloud for a rapid detox or suboxen detox methods?
trying to get off pain management
Hi, i am new also but i have the misfortune of having been on every opiate on earth and then having had a very bad accident right after I detoxed and was clean for three years. Then they put me on all kinds of oxys , now my actual prescription is [get this] three 100mcg Duragesic patches every two days. Well; luckily i am educated enough to realize that I would become a vegitable if I used it that way so I made a concocssion and added 20ml of saline solution to just one and sprayted it into my nose. I told my doctor to take me off these things I hate them and I swear I honestly don't want to be blitz out of my mind all the time so finally I found a doctor who works with cancer patients and Chronic pain patients and he also does detoxes, it took me two months to get to see him but i finally did and he talked to me for hours and he told me that I had to bring myself down and when I go into real bad withdrawal , there is an actual chart for it, it does not depend on how you feel, you have to be in mid withdrawals. Then you take a 8mg subutex which does not have half narcan in it like subutex, it is pure bupernorphine no narcan or naltraxone, anyway then you will get releif . So best of luck, I am dieing of pain right now, I believe that I am in mid withdrawals, my body is in pain, my eyes are tearing, I have been to the bathroom at least ten times today and i have a feaver, but since my eyes are not dialated and my nose is not running like crazy which it was two weeks ago, I am afraid to take the damned pill, so i am waiting to the point when my skin is actually moving and I am praying for death and then I will take it because it is IMPERATIVE that you are in withdrawal when you take it. Then it will work and you slowly taper off. best of luck.
This is the first time I've entered into any type of online forum. Please let me know if I am doing anything outside of the norm (ie. long post). This post alone might tell you how badly I am looking for information. I was eight years sober until march 2007 when I started taking vicodin. After a few months, I knew where I was headed. I decided to see a pshychiatrist to see how to deal with the withdrawl ont the addiction. I knew that I was over it because I had been there so many times years ago. Consequently, I have been on 12 MGs of Suboxen for the past 14 months. Last week, Thursday, I ran out and decided I had enough with them and they had served their purpose. Not so easy!
Satuday rolled around I started to feel very ill. From there, it escalated dramatically and only then did I realize that it was Suboxen withdrawl. I explicitly recall my doctor saying there was no withdrawl. By Tuesday morning, I was so miserable and sick that I called my doctor who said it was psychosomatic. Because I knew I needed more to feel better, I avoided telling him how misinformed he was. I felt like a crack addict needing my suboxen. I started taking them again on Tuesday morning and felt better instanatly. Now, two days later, I feel bad again but not like I did. Last Thursday, I also stopped Lexapro cold turkey and didn't even think about withdrawls until tonight. The lexapro doesnt concern me because it is extremely mild compared to Suboxen. Question; is there any way to taper off Suboxen without suffering so miserably. And, how long does it take to start feeling better again. I was so miserable that I took a handful of klonopin to try to reduce the anxiety. It didn't help. I can't fall asleep either. I understnad that Klonodine can be used to help. Any feedback would be appreciated. The suboxone has been extremely effective, so I am wondering if I keep taking it. It does kill your appetite and sex drive.
Your doctor sounds like an idiot. You are taking entirely too much suboxone to stop cold on after that long of taking it. You need to be on a very slow taper. I can help you with this if you want me to. I have used sub successfully and stopped successfully without incident and have helped several others do the same. You need to be stablized on your suboxone ... feeling good and not having any W/D symptoms from what you just went through. Then I can advise you how to do this if you want me to. I would say you are probably looking at a six month taper if you don't want to have any symptoms with the detox. If you can stand a little discomfort we can probably cut that back to four months. Anything less than that with the amount and time you have been doing this is insane. I promise you that if you stop suboxone cold turkey after an extended period of time using it you will have W/Ds. I usually advise patients to only use it for six weeks if possible. Just to detox off opiates and then stop everything. But you have already been on it too long to just stop. Don't worry, you can do this with the proper instructions. Let me know if you want my help.
I will respond to you from the "need to talk" forum (wrong terminology). Now that I read what you're saying here, it sounds like Suboxen is not a drug I should be taking permanantely. I can't tell you how infuriated and enrgaed I am by this doctors complete ignorance about a drug that he's prescribing. He fired me as his patient because I called him so many times over the weekend when I was going through hell. He didn't return the call for four days. Harboring a resentment is unproductive, but I feel compelled to report him so that other patients don't suffer unneccassarily. It sounds like you're an MD?
It seems to me that to be an effective psychiatrist/psychopharmacologist, you have to be a recovering addict. I started the vicodin last year to reduce my anxiety. I am extremely intense and have lots of anxiety. The Vicodin made me feel great. I need something to mange my anxiety and don't know if Suboxen is a long term answer. This same doctor told me that he was doing stuides to show how Suboxen should be used as an effective drug for depression. I just don't know who to trust?!?!. You'd like to think that your MD is held to the highest ethics but I don't find that across the board. I want someone I can trust has my best interest, especially at $400 per hour.
Originally Posted by lakers32
I will be happy to help you with this. I am not an MD. I have however been through Buprenorphine therapy successfully, stopped taking it successfully and have worked with several others to help them. I am involved in recovery professionally. But no claims to being an MD.
I agree with your comments about some doctors level of knowledge where Suboxone/Subutex is concerned. Sadly all they have to do is become certified, which is very simple to do, and then they can treat patients accordingly. Doesn't mean they have much knowledge about this specific therapy. I was quite disenchanted with my treatment as well. That is why I took it upon myself to learn what was really going on so I could help myself properly. Lots of doctors are great with this. Others charge exhorbitant fees and seemingly just want to keep us on a treatment that appears to be very lucrative for them. I see treating patients for depression problems with Suboxone as a crock personally. Makes no sense to me with what experience I have. I will look for your post on the other thread.
Please consider suboxone,as a TOOL to titrate off.I have been on it for 16 months,far
Consider suboxone,as a tool for about 3=6 weeks.I have been on it for 18 months,far too long.I take 2 mg. 4 times a day,most take it only once.I have done rapid detox,and was not successful,not a panecea,as I was told,and 23,000 dollars poorer!!.Recently I heard of a naturopath,in Merchantville,New Jersey,who also ,endorses,I heard,yoga that involves heat,as a suggested addition,of getting off meds.In short,I heard that she subscribes to healing the total person,and also does neuro transmitter,testing,and the like.She also does not view getting off medicines ,pain meds. as an overnight thing.IF you are willing to commit and work with her,and are on Suboxone,she will walk the walk,and talk the talk with you,so you can get healthy and well.Short term quick fixes,offer just that,easy fixes,that in the end are temporary,because if nothing changes,,nothing changes.The change within you will come,slowly,take it from me,and $23,ooo poorer.If you give yourself say 6 months,use suboxone,as the cane,use nutrition as the crutch,and exercise as the wheelchair,you are well on your way.I have learned,now,and as a 3rd year med student,that honoring your life,is to pace youself realistically.Quick fixes,result in quick falls.Be good to yourself.
Originally Posted by hrlygrl
Last edited by ddcmod; 06-16-2008 at 08:43 PM.
Hi,I understand how you feel.Please read what I wrote today.I am on also,I forgot to mention,an 8 month detox from Suboxone.I will go down 1 mg. every month,thats it.I also take wellbutrin,and provigil(not good for long term energy)butI will suceed this time,because the SLOW detox in the end,will be the best detox.Change takes time,and quality change,takes quality time.We aew in this together you know.Gavi
Originally Posted by lakers32
Don't give up
I also read what Robert has said,and he is so on target.I also was told that Soboxone,is the best anti. for me,+ a pain med.,all in one.wow..What a deal.I have sinced learned to educate myself.For those considering Suboxone,NO MORE THAN 3 - 6 weeks.For those on it,a long detox.For me,I will say ...my goal is 8 months,I began on June1....That is 1 mg. per month.I also am on 350 mg. Wellbutrin,that I want to taper,plus 400 mg. Provigil,per day!!.Too much there.Any tapers on Provigil,I would welcome,and others experiences on it.So thats my "Bucket List",as they say.Gavi
Originally Posted by Gavi
Someone please help me.
I am addicted to pain pills. Hydrocodone to be exact. I have been taking them everyday for around 5 years. There is no option for me to get treatment or medical help from anyone professional, I am going to have to do this cold turkey.
I take 2-3 pills a day. I have tried several times, but couldn't deal with the withdrawals. I'm to the point where I just can't do this anymore. I have to get off the pills, they are taking (have took) over my life. I'm scared I can't do this. I'm tired, just so tired of feeling like I do. I feel tired all the time, I never have a "good" day anymore. Anyone have any suggestions or relief that might help when one goes cold turkey? For me, the stomach pains (constantly having to use the restroom) and creepy crawlies/restless legs are the worst. I have went for 3 days at one time trying to get off of them, but I always fail. The pills are easy for me to get.......my husband is prescribed 180 a month and his mother gets 120 a month. They both know I take them everyday, but they don't try and help me stop.
I have to stop, I have a 12 year old son, we just lost our house to foreclosure and right now, living in a one room apartment.
Feeling alone and scared in GA
hope this helps...
Im not a professional at all, but your pain is so tangible I can only offer the febble suggestions I have.
I believe your post said you take roughly 2-3 hydrocodone a day or so? The most comfortable way I can think of doing this on your own would be to gradually lengthen the time span between the pills you normally take(if you take them every 4 hours space them to every 6 hrs. then 8 hrs. etc.) until you are all the way down to one a day, then one every day and a half then one every other day (and if you are not strong enough to do it alone GET A TRUSTED FRIEND, CLERGY, FAMILY MEMBER, or WHATEVER TO HOLD THEM FOR YOU AND GIVE THEM OUT AT THE PROPER TIME SPACE ALOTTED)and by the time you are down to one every 3days the PHYSICAL part should be bearable at least. You may need to find mental support to prevent yourself from taking them again as they are so accessible to you, but that (sobriety) is another issue entirely and I'm not preaching or judging.
HOWEVER, withdrawl is no joke, i don't know enough medical info about you to say how safe this is for you, whether or not you use alcohol etc. So while doing this, if at anytime you are feeling like something is SERIOUSLY WRONG and you are hallucinating or weird stuff like that, then i very seriously suggest immediately taking a hydrocodone to put some back into your system and going to the nearest emergency room cause nothing is worth dying for, not pride, poverty or ego. I feel for you, I got kids, been through forclosure, had to move also, these are tough times. Please let me know how things turn out.
There are others here that may have better suggestions than I. I hope for your success and safety, and that you are feeling better very soon. God Bless and Good luck.
Last edited by rustysneakers; 06-11-2008 at 07:01 PM.
subutex/suboxone long-term NOT easy to get off it
I finished a gradual taper from subutex 8mg a day about 3 weeks ago. I'm still going through withdrawals namely; skin crawling, muscle cramps, anxiety, racing heart beat (often 140bpm), visual distortion and psychological hell.
The gradual detox really sucks but I guess it sucks less than a sudden detox from a high dose. I was down to the small dose of just 200mcg a day before stopping altogether and still it hurt.
However, I dropped from 8mg to 4mg and then to 2mg a day without much problem, over a period of weeks. It was when I was below 2mg a day that it was bad.
Subutex is HORRIBLE stuff and should NOT be taken long term. MD's don't know what it is they are prescribing. Without experience of actually having been on these drugs it is impossible for them to understand. They go by various papers written by other medical doctors who also have no actual first-hand experience.
I think detox should be put in the hands of recovered addicts who actually know what they are talking about.
Having read the posts in this thread I am amazed because I relate totally to the experiences here. And yet, my doctor at the time disbelieved what I was saying. This made me think I was the only person going through it so badly. But now I realise that the skin crawling and restless legs etc... are common. And this doctor was supposed to be an expert in drug addiction!
Subutex withdrawal is nasty and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I've heard that short term use (weeks) of subutex to get off other opioids is helpful for some but long term it just shouldn't be prescribed. That's my experience anyway...
Dude, you are so right! My sentiments exactly..
You hit the nail on the head! Check out some of my posts....I'm going through the end of my taper right now, it hasn't been pretty.....It's very easy for doctors to tell you to quit and that it won't be bad, and that it will just be a flu for a few days. What flu ever kept you from getting sleep for weeks, jumping out of your skin-unable to sit still, and freezing while your covered in sweat? The suboxone drug company is responsible for providing the license course for physicians to take in order to prescribe the drug, obviously they have motivation to promote the drug as having minimal side effects and no withdrawal, which is total BS! I'm surprised nobody has filed a suit against this company!
Originally Posted by vincentx90
Clonidine might help your blood pressure some, ask your doc, it's supposed to help w/d. Keep me updated, and good luck man!
Taper slowly, take minimal doese of anit anxiety, and use suboxone
Ok, as they say, please check with a doctor. Every one is built differently and has different frailties. This may not work for everyone. There are a few things to get out of the way first. They are obvious, and I do not mean to sound like I am talking down to you or in any way judging you. Just by asking for help is a good start. Now, with that said, are you truly ready for a battle? Because anyone that tells you different is probably on low doses and may be fortunate enough to breeze through withdrawal. My advise is for those like me. Mega doses of pain killers. Name the kind, if it can be crushed, I'd snort it. There is not a 12 step program to keep you from the fear of shaking, sweating, and having the feeling that every cell in your body is actually moving and convulsing in agony pleading with you to please just get a little bit in your system. These are the people I am talking to. The ones who have seen Hell. Enough said.
Ok, if you are lucky enough-try a written plan of tapering off of what ever your drug of choice is. Lets say for instance, Hydrocodone. Say you are currently on 150 to 200 mg per day. Sometimes more, sometimes less, you know the routine. Try and get down to 100 per day for a week or two. Maybe 3 depending on how long you have been dating the Devil. Once you get to 100 start decreasing the daily dose by 10 mgs per day until you reach a place I like to call absolute bottom. Lets say its 50. Once you have reached 50, get ready to take a week off of work. Stop taking them all together and use xanax or something similar in limited fashion. Many showers. Read the bible or any book that will help you pray. Wait until the 2nd or 3rd day if you can wait that long, and you should be in withdrawal. I recommend full withdrawal because if you are not, suboxone will send you there immediately. Now, take two at a time 8 mg each under tongue. Continue with cold towel, blankets (you know the routine). Take more Suboxone that day up to 3 more times of 8 mgs each. It may sound high, but you will need it. Then tapper the suboxone down the next 5 days until you are completely done. No more pills. No more suboxone. Find out your addiction. Is it for pain? Is it the act itself? Combine this with a program until you can function like a normal human being (whatever that is). The numbers may vary as will the days and amounts based on your ability to stand the pain, and you overall health. I wish anyone who is really trying to get this demon out of them the best. Remember, you are not alone. A week from now, you might be able to walk down the street without sweating, and return to humanity. The hold these terrible opiods have on a person can only be described as a demon grabbing your soul by every small cell. You can not get rid of this without some pain. God be with you all.
Hell ya!! Snort everything! Take as many suboxone at once as you're big enough to handle. Why stop at two or three? Why not just take six or seven? Let's be a grizzly if you're going to be a bear! What a total crock of BS!!! Give me a freakin break!
I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.
Have you lost your Friggin mind? How many 8mg subs did you say to take ? You are doing more harm than any opiate has ever done, just by your post ! You are FULL OF $#!?. That has to be the worst advice I have ever seen in all of my life.
DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS IDIOT, you will be sorry !
to live my life and to be free!
where can i find a suboxone clinic in the kingston (between toronto,ottawa + montreal
Hi i really need a change in my strategy. does ANYONE KNOW where can i find a suboxone clinic in the kingston Ontario(between toronto,ottawa + montreal) Area I WILL TRAVEL
my teeth are rotting out of my head from my numerous methadone maintanaice attempts, (don't ever let anyone tell you methadone doesn't cause tooth decay) i have been perscribed more pain meds as a result of methadone related toothdamage than i ever have. and what isn't perscribed -i supplement
I am really motivated to get off the methadone, but every time I get close to tapering off the meth,
I end up using again because getting off the last 10 "mils",takes as long as getting off the first 40 or 80.
when you have worked so hard to taper off 90% of your dose.
(or file through 90% of your shackles), you begin to feel hope that the end is in sight- only to be shown that you really have only begun.
Most people at my clinic have been on methadone or pills most of their lives and plan to be on the juice for the rest of their lives
I love to travel, so it's almost impossible to stay on the methadone program, with all of it's restrictions.
My teeth have fallen in such a state of agony and utter disrepair from the methadone that supplementing has become VERY hard to avoid
Also, i have had open heart surgery which has left me with a tranplanted "human" aortic and "pig" tricuspid valve,
so WHENEVER I RELAPSE, OR HAVE DENTAL WORK I RUN THE RISK OF INFECTION LEADING TO DEATH WITHIN ABOUT A WEEK - DEATH.
This condition also makes it dangerous, if not impossible to detox at home
That being said, the longest anyone has EVER lived as an IV user with my conditon is 10 yrs, the average lifespan being 1 1/2 to 3 years
i've ALREADY beat the odds and I know that I can't continue to cheat death
- if the relapses don't get me then my teeth will.
Untill i read all of your stories about suboxone
i felt that it would be impossible for me to ever get off methadone/pills,
as i refused to stay stuck in my high risk /small town that has triggers around every bend (unfornuately i will not be moving for at least 3 years).
It may seem like I am avoiding responsibility here,
but I am really just trying (unsucessfully) to be brief. I am more than willing to make the effort. and your stories have given me enormous hope when i was so close to throwing my hands up and resigning myself to a short life on a short leash
-married to methadone/want a fling with suboxone /divoroce all opiates
sorry i don't know how to ask my own questions yet
Married to methadone
Anyone that has a problem with getting off methadone, is welcome to ask me any questions they may have. I have been off of methadone since May 2, 2009, after over 7 years of up to 360mgs per day ! I am currently on suboxone and have been tapering since May 4, 2009. I am currently skipping days @ .25mgs ( 1/32 of a pill ) If I were to stay at my current dose, an 8mg pill would last me 32 DAYS !!! I am skipping days so I won't even need 1 whole pill. I have 23 8mg pills that I will flush down the toilet. I might even put it on " YOU TUBE " LOL I should be finished with opiates forever REAL soon !
to live my life and to be free !
Help please how do i no if my dad is off drugs!!
Hello my name is A and i am 20 years old, you see i need help my dad has been my hero my entire life, he means everything to me, he was always been in my life until 4 years ago, when he married my step mom. We have lived in Florida our entire life's, and in 2006 my father moved to a town in Sierra Vista Az, about 30 min from the Mexico border. The town was a small town with some good parts but for the most part it was a old run down town. 3 months after he moved there he ran into this women he has known since elementary school, in witch he fell in love with. They were never not together up until this past year when they both went to jail. in 2007 my father stopped calling me, and i could never go visit him, (when he moved to Az i stayed in Fl with my mom) anyways he became addicted to oxycotten, and meth, my step mom was doing meth as well and crack she is the one who introduced my father to the drugs, he missed my 18th birthday as well as my 17, 19, and 20, and i just received a call from his last thanksgiving saying he was trying to get clean. I was so happy but when i saw him he looked terrible and i no he was taking suboxon. I don't no how much or the dosage. This past weekend i saw him for the first time in a year..he put on some weight, and looked better, but his leg wont stop shaking and he never wants to be around people as well he still talks to the bad people who do or did the drugs with him...his doctor prescribed him to xanex to help with his axity but i don't even no if he is really off the drugs, because all they do is swab his mouth does that work even or can you hide it from a swab drug test? is there something else he should be taking instead of more addictive drugs? please help if anyone knows anything!
I live in Sierra Vista, too....
I wish I could offer help. But, here in Sierra Vista, there aren't any doctors to help. I am a chronic pain patient, currently prescribed 180 mgs/day of morphine, but two doctors, one is head of my clinic, whom I've never seen and another, she recommended, saw me only once, without examining me, treating me like a drug addict, when I followed my burprenorphine prescription, by my last primary to a tee. She was trying to get me off of the 300 mgs/day of the morphine, my doctor of 13 years, prescribed me, after trying everything else, which didn't help my pain. Sometimes I didn't take one of the prescribed 3 pills, forgetting, so there was no way I was a drug addict. But, she suddenly quit, like the last primary I had. This is how I got to see this jerk doctor, a man who never examined me, deciding there was nothing wrong with me, and said, after giving me another script for the morphine, just after the head doctor gave me, (the right hand doesn't know what the left hand has done), that when I am weaned off the morphine, (again), I would only be taking over the counter pain pills, which stopped working for me, back in 1981, ruining my stomach. Then, this man dismissed me, after not listening to me, about the other 12 doctors who said I had lupus, finally diagnosed with Crest Syndrome and Mixed Connective Tissue Disease, which encompasses lupus, RA and scleroderma, amongst other illnesses, associated with these illnesses. Plus, I was born with scoliosis of my spine, which is now affecting the entire half of my body. I won't fill his prescription, and am currently taking 30 mgs/day, cutting one 60 mg. in half. I am suffering greatly from the restless legs and my hips and spine make it very hard to sit, walk, stand and sit for any lenght of time.
Originally Posted by callofduty
I tried calling other doctors, to see me, but find they don't want me as their patient, because I am a chronic pain patient and because I am still trying to get off the morphine, by myself. With this written, can you ask your dad what doctor he is seeing, who might help me. I need a doctor who is certified to put me back on the Buprenorphine, which was helping me and had me off the morphine. I can't live like this, as I am also a care giver for my ex-husband, my daughter threw out onto the streets, because she wanted her own life. He is blind and destitute and it is hard because I am disabled on very low income, barely enough to support myself. I also have a leaky heart valve, which is being affected by my severe pain, causing pain in my chest and rib cage. It is so bad, I vomit and have a headache, nearly pass out and must take two of my blood pressure pills and a nitro all at once, to try to stop having a heart attack. I know wonder if there is more damage to my heart. The scleroderma is a hardening of the skin and the walls of organs, which I am sure has affected my heart too, along with the gall bladder, taken out by 4 surgeons, which took 6 hours as my walls were so badly scarred, they couldn't cut through it, before taking it out.
So, if you could tell me which doctor your dad is going through, perhaps they can help me get back on the buprenorphine and help me with my pain. A doctor who is willing to listen, understand and care. Since your dad is seemingly being helped, maybe his doctor will see me.
In the meantime, thanks for reading my long post. Also, I am praying for you, so you won't be worried about your dad, because he is, finally getting help. I am praying you will stay well, all your life, and your dad will finally be free from the addictions and from pain, too.
Please take care...