[tired2]

Originally Posted by littlepuppet2002

I am curious if you have experienced constapation problems. I have been on suboxone for almost 7 months and it seems as though every couple weeks I get nausious to the point where I puke and have diarea. Before suboxone, I had a healthy bowel movement with almost once or twice a day. Since suboxone, it seems I move my bowels maybe once a week. I have a doctor appointment next week.

I have only been on Suboxone 16mg for one month I'm constipated also I started taking laxatives (natural) they help. No I do not have any serious issues while on laxatives.Metamucil regularly used helps also. I have the same problem with nausea which is kicking my ***.How much are you on ? Let me know what the doc says about the nausea. My dose is too high so I'm beginning my taper tomorrow.I want off this ********.

[ddosher]

Originally Posted by ddosher

It's literally one minute at a time. I;ll try to relax...thanks for your patience and your prayers. you have mine too.

Not much change. My head is killing me and I have no desire to do anything. I'm thinking of calling the suboxone people again to see if they can give me any idea of how to cure this HEADACHE. It is literally sucking the life from me. I have tried Tylanol Sinus and Aleve. Nothing works. This feels like a death sentence. Could I go back on suboxone?

[ddosher]

Originally Posted by ddosher

Not much change. My head is killing me and I have no desire to do anything. I'm thinking of calling the suboxone people again to see if they can give me any idea of how to cure this HEADACHE. It is literally sucking the life from me. I have tried Tylanol Sinus and Aleve. Nothing works. This feels like a death sentence. Could I go back on suboxone?

OK I just spoke with marion over at the Suboxone hotline. She claims that the suboxone is no longer in my system and that it can't be that causing this headache. What she also said is that the Opiads (Hydros) I was taking prior to the Suboxone could have definately caused changes in my brain and since the opiads are full antagonist and the Suboxone is only partial and I wasn't on the Suboxone nearly as long as I was taking the opiads, she said they would be the culprit of how I'm feeling now. She suggested seeing a good Dr. or Phychiatrist. I explained that I have no insurance and if I show up at an emergency room or an Ulta Care no one is going to really know what to do with me anyway because of their lack of experience with any of this. I am ready to do something though. I cannot go on like this thinking well maybe tomorrow my brain will stop hurting. It doesn't feel like it will. What should i do...what would you do? Any suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks a lot.

Donna

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by ddosher

OK I just spoke with marion over at the Suboxone hotline. She claims that the suboxone is no longer in my system and that it can't be that causing this headache. What she also said is that the Opiads (Hydros) I was taking prior to the Suboxone could have definately caused changes in my brain and since the opiads are full antagonist and the Suboxone is only partial and I wasn't on the Suboxone nearly as long as I was taking the opiads, she said they would be the culprit of how I'm feeling now. She suggested seeing a good Dr. or Phychiatrist. I explained that I have no insurance and if I show up at an emergency room or an Ulta Care no one is going to really know what to do with me anyway because of their lack of experience with any of this. I am ready to do something though. I cannot go on like this thinking well maybe tomorrow my brain will stop hurting. It doesn't feel like it will. What should i do...what would you do? Any suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks a lot.

Donna

There is NO way that hydros have affected you to this extent after being off them for over a month unless you were taking 75 of them a day for years. I don't know Marion at the hotline or where she has gotten her information. But that is BS.

I don't recall Donna ... how much hydro were you taking and for how long before you started on the subs? Refresh my memory and let's look at this again. I just think the advice you got was a bunch of mumbo jumbo so Marion could sound like she knows what she is talking about when she doesn't in reality.

I can PROMISE you that if you get some Zomig your headache will stop almost instantly. Only thing is you don't have insurance and it's expensive. But if my head was hurting badly enough I would pay ANYTHING to make it stop. Talk to me. God bless.

[ddosher]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

There is NO way that hydros have affected you to this extent after being off them for over a month unless you were taking 75 of them a day for years. I don't know Marion at the hotline or where she has gotten her information. But that is BS.

I don't recall Donna ... how much hydro were you taking and for how long before you started on the subs? Refresh my memory and let's look at this again. I just think the advice you got was a bunch of mumbo jumbo so Marion could sound like she knows what she is talking about when she doesn't in reality.

I can PROMISE you that if you get some Zomig your headache will stop almost instantly. Only thing is you don't have insurance and it's expensive. But if my head was hurting badly enough I would pay ANYTHING to make it stop. Talk to me. God bless.

I was on the Hydros for about 5 years. I went from taking 4-7.5 to 6-7.5 per day the last couple of years. At the VERY end, I started getting some from the street but that was only the last couple of months. I was probably doing 10-15 a day.

You are very kind to work with me Robert. Thanks a lot.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by ddosher

I was on the Hydros for about 5 years. I went from taking 4-7.5 to 6-7.5 per day the last couple of years. At the VERY end, I started getting some from the street but that was only the last couple of months. I was probably doing 10-15 a day.

You are very kind to work with me Robert. Thanks a lot.

Donna .... just think logically for a second ... really think about what this Marion lady said to you. You see people on here daily taking 20, 30, even 40 hydro 7.5 a day and more. I was taking close to 75 RX opiate pills each and every day. Not to minimize your dose but your symptoms are NOT from THAT amount of hydrocodones. It's impossible.

You jumped off the sub at too high a dose after an extended period of time. That is one of the worst things you can do. It's guaranteed to be good for a month or longer w/d every single time a person does that. Marion doesn't know JACK! She probably gets paid $8 per hour to answer a freakin phone line.

Do you have a dr you can call and ask about some Zomig for your headache? I promise it will work. It's the best headache med there is in my opinion. I had to use it for years when I was having to take SO MUCH medication it was making me ill like you are. You really should check on it.

I really believe this can't last much longer. If you could get rid of the headache I bet you would pull out of this sooner. Some Zomig would be a lot cheaper than getting back on subs. It's hard for me to tell you new things to do when you don't have the insurance or means to pay cash. Most of this stuff all costs money. That's why I would go for something like Zomig to deal with the headache and then the rest of this would probably be more tolerable. God bless.

[ddosher]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Donna .... just think logically for a second ... really think about what this Marion lady said to you. You see people on here daily taking 20, 30, even 40 hydro 7.5 a day and more. I was taking close to 75 RX opiate pills each and every day. Not to minimize your dose but your symptoms are NOT from THAT amount of hydrocodones. It's impossible.

You jumped off the sub at too high a dose after an extended period of time. That is one of the worst things you can do. It's guaranteed to be good for a month or longer w/d every single time a person does that. Marion doesn't know JACK! She probably gets paid $8 per hour to answer a freakin phone line.

Do you have a dr you can call and ask about some Zomig for your headache? I promise it will work. It's the best headache med there is in my opinion. I had to use it for years when I was having to take SO MUCH medication it was making me ill like you are. You really should check on it.

I really believe this can't last much longer. If you could get rid of the headache I bet you would pull out of this sooner. Some Zomig would be a lot cheaper than getting back on subs. It's hard for me to tell you new things to do when you don't have the insurance or means to pay cash. Most of this stuff all costs money. That's why I would go for something like Zomig to deal with the headache and then the rest of this would probably be more tolerable. God bless.

I'm going to look into getting the Zomig. I'll keep you posted. Thanks so much.

Donna

[candybear22303]

Originally Posted by mpvt

I agree with Kevin.As addicts it's impossible for us to take quick acting opiates.Even if they are weak ones like vicodin, you end up taking handfulls at a time.You should stay on suboxone and let your brain return to it's normal chemical state were your producing lots of endorphins.Vicodin is ******************** anyway.....Dave

Hi! I'm candy, I was on about 120mg a day of Vicodens for about 2 years, The I got on Methadone, at 160mg a day. Then I got tired of Pills running my life. So! I found Suboxone, I thought it was gods gift to me. But! After reading alot of messages, I'm scared to try and get off of them. Can Someone please help me. I'm on 8mg a day, I'm tired of going thru withdrawls, and I'm tired of Docs not telling me all the Pros and Cons for the Meds. And I have to pay the price!! Is there ANYWAY at all, That I can come off of Suboxone, without going thru ANY withdrawl. Anyway at all???????????? Please! Somebody Help Me, I'm 38 and have been on Suboxone for about 8 mo, 8mg a day. Thanks for taken the time to read this. I know there is no help, But! I thought it was worth a try. I do want to say good luck to everyone, I know without a doubt, what your going thru. Thanks Again!

[relaybane]

From what i unerstand, there are basically two ways to get off Suboxone with few withdrawals, one of which i have had personal experience with, the other i havent but many seem to be doing ok with. The way i detoxed from suboxone and/or opiates was rapid detoxification under anesthesia with the Waismann method. The reason i say suboxone and opiates was that i would go through withdrawal from oxtcontin till i couldnt bear it any longer, then take suboxone. Then i would go through withdrawals from suboxone till i couldnt bear it, then take Oxy..i got caught up in this cycle for bloody years of misery..i tried tapering but ( at least for me) it didnt work as the wd's were too much for me. You could give the Waismann method a call and see how you feel about what they say.
The other method ive seen here is real gradual tapering, and there are some very helpful posters here that can walk you through this procedure. From what ive read, the tapering is a lot better than withdrawing from opiates, but there is still some discomfort at the end. having said that, rapid detox also has some unpleasantries afterwards, but i know which one was vastly preferable to me. If you want the easiest way, go rapid detox. If moneys a big issue, try tapering. Either way, im sure you will find empathy and support here from so many people who share your experience..Good luck!

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by candybear22303

Hi! I'm candy, I was on about 120mg a day of Vicodens for about 2 years, The I got on Methadone, at 160mg a day. Then I got tired of Pills running my life. So! I found Suboxone, I thought it was gods gift to me. But! After reading alot of messages, I'm scared to try and get off of them. Can Someone please help me. I'm on 8mg a day, I'm tired of going thru withdrawls, and I'm tired of Docs not telling me all the Pros and Cons for the Meds. And I have to pay the price!! Is there ANYWAY at all, That I can come off of Suboxone, without going thru ANY withdrawl. Anyway at all???????????? Please! Somebody Help Me, I'm 38 and have been on Suboxone for about 8 mo, 8mg a day. Thanks for taken the time to read this. I know there is no help, But! I thought it was worth a try. I do want to say good luck to everyone, I know without a doubt, what your going thru. Thanks Again!

Hi candybear
You can taper off of them with a small amount of w/d...I wouldn't say none but I have seen Robert get many people off of subs with not to much trouble...
you could always give it a try...you have nothing to loose...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by candybear22303

Hi! I'm candy, I was on about 120mg a day of Vicodens for about 2 years, The I got on Methadone, at 160mg a day. Then I got tired of Pills running my life. So! I found Suboxone, I thought it was gods gift to me. But! After reading alot of messages, I'm scared to try and get off of them. Can Someone please help me. I'm on 8mg a day, I'm tired of going thru withdrawls, and I'm tired of Docs not telling me all the Pros and Cons for the Meds. And I have to pay the price!! Is there ANYWAY at all, That I can come off of Suboxone, without going thru ANY withdrawl. Anyway at all???????????? Please! Somebody Help Me, I'm 38 and have been on Suboxone for about 8 mo, 8mg a day. Thanks for taken the time to read this. I know there is no help, But! I thought it was worth a try. I do want to say good luck to everyone, I know without a doubt, what your going thru. Thanks Again!

There are a bunch of people on this forum right now who have done our taper system with suboxone successfully. Check out the following link.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

I had abused opiates for right at 35 years. I developed this tapering procedure for myself when I used subs. Everyone is different and the process mentioned in the aforementioned link takes that into consideration as we move forward according to your individual symptoms rather than a one-size-fits-all approach like most drs use. They just don't have the time or ability to work with you on a daily basis like we do here. It's not that they don't care, it's just that drs aren't always available at your convenience.

I would suggest that you start a new thread where we can track YOU and not have you mixed in with everyone else so I can keep up with your progress. Again let me know if you want my help. God bless.

[sentia]

In brief: I am a 40 yrs old male, started hydro/oxy for good reasons, kept using for the wrong reasons. Ended up at 120-140mg of oxy at peak and couldn't keep up with the habit, waking up at night with withdrawls (yawning so much my jaw became painful!), not to mention expensive and dealing with the anxiety from the guilt that came from allowing myself to get here! <insert the usual long story about how I justified continued using after my injury, add a fortunate financial situation that made it easier>

Found a Doctor out of state as none locally could take more suboxone patients. Started ~8 weeks ago on 16Mg for 1 week, everything was pretty good! No withdrawls, felt great but had some trouble sleeping. Dr. stepped me up to 20-24Mg (added 4-8mg in the evening) for 3 weeks. About 3-4 weeks into treatment these side effects started. Bowel movements no more often than every 6-7 days and an increasing soreness in the mornings.

About two weeks ago these symptoms increased to the point of it being very difficult to get moving in the morning. Joints and muscles very very sore, especially in my legs. Painful to stretch my fingers and legs. About 10 days ago I voluntarily began a rapid step-down in the suboxone believing that too much was the cause. I know it's not recommended to step-down this quickly but I wonder if I might have had too much to begin with. I'm down to no more than 12mg per day and trying for 8mg today. Regular bowel movements have returned! I get sudden sweating outbreaks which is my signal to take a quarter or half (2-4mg) of suboxone. Sometimes I just let those pass and do not take until I seem to get so irritable I can't stand being around myself.

Unfortunately I still have very painful mornings. The joints in my fingers/hands are incredibly sore each morning and I just feel like I've been doing some kind of major hard work the previous day (I've worked in a mill, concrete/construction, chopped wood for a living) -- it's that kind of soreness times perhaps at least two (2). I'm not complaining and clearly it's not debilitating, just incredibly uncomfortable. I'm sleeping 10-11 hours a day and having to forcing myself to get up. I'm a relatively happy and energetic person eager to do things every day and so this is especially unusual and undesirable. Oddly, after about 3 hours into my day the soreness is down by 50% and better as the day goes but then it begins again the next morning at full strength.

I just wanted to share this FWIW to others. I've read a ton of the posts in the forums and appreciate this resource so much, thanks to all of you, especially Robert but others also for all of the good counsel and information (not to mention common sense).

Returning to hydro/oxy is simply not an option - I categorically refuse to go back to that awful place *not even once*. I have not relapsed since beginning sub. I drink no more than 1-2 beers on any given day, sometimes none. I could cut those out entirely if I thought it had anything to do with it. I am not taking anything else and eat quite healthy. In any case, my absolute mission is to work my way off the suboxone hoping that at these lower doses I will soon get over the highly uncomfortable side-effects I'm experiencing.

I am calling my doctor in a minute to give him the update - when I first complained he seemed to think I needed to start a mild anti-depressant which I really don't feel I need. I am just having this strong gut feeling that my sub dose was/is too high and I need to get it down as much as possible, fast. I'll go from there. My Dr. stated "there are no side effects from Suboxone" -- I mentioned constipation and he admitted that much). I get the feeling some Dr.'s are still so new to this they don't know about side effects.

If anyone can share more about similar symptoms and their progress to alleviate them I would love to hear it and I think it may benefit others here.

My deepest respect and admiration for everyone here who is trying to heal and repair themselves, or here to help them do so, and all of it in a community that simply and truly cares and doesn't judge.

Humbly,

[Robert_325]

You were never inducted properly. You had 16mg per day slammed on you like everyone else has done to them by the sub drs. Then when you experienced adversed symptoms he increased your dose. That was very smart of him.Your dr doesn't know how to do an induction obviously. He is listening to the drug rep telling him how to do this. You should start an induction at a 2mg dose and add 2mg every hour-hour and a half until you stabilize. Had a guy last week come here in the same place, had him stop the subs, re-inducted him and he is now at 6mg doing wonderfully. He also began at 16mg. I know that I'm right.

You're still taking too much suboxone. All the side effects are the proof. Any dr that says subs have no side effects needs to be educated properly. HE is wrong! That's a guarantee. You've been on it plenty long to taper down and finish this. I can help you if you want me to, I just need you to do as I ask and we can turn this around relatively easy. Let me know. No way I would go on antidepressants until I changed the way I was taking subs. That will probably do the trick. God bless.

[sentia]

I'll be low maintenance and a quick study as many others here need your help! Thank you.

I've taken only 2mg so far today and pushed through several "sweat-out" episodes and I can feel the weirdness coming on so I may do another 2mg shortly. If I were to do another 2mg tonight (6 total) and try the same again tomorrow would that be a good place to start? I don't mind some withdrawls, I can't wait to get over the feeling I've been boxing telephone poles and trying to tackle moving vehicles every time I wake up.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by sentia

I'll be low maintenance and a quick study as many others here need your help! Thank you.

I've taken only 2mg so far today and pushed through several "sweat-out" episodes and I can feel the weirdness coming on so I may do another 2mg shortly. If I were to do another 2mg tonight (6 total) and try the same again tomorrow would that be a good place to start? I don't mind some withdrawls, I can't wait to get over the feeling I've been boxing telephone poles and trying to tackle moving vehicles every time I wake up.

First off you don't need to worry about being a quick study. I want you to do this correctly. I will help you do this the right way.

Don't take 2mg doses throughout the day. That will do nothing but mess this up. You've been on them long enough now that you should be on a morning dose and an afternoon/evening dose per your schedule. Just do them at the same time each day ... two doses that's it.

I don't want you to have to "sweat out" anything. That's not the way to do this. You went on subs so you wouldn't go through w/d. Otherwise you would have done a cold turkey. Why would you want to tough it out through w/d symptoms now? There is NO reason to be feeling badly. Just because that's how it's gone so far doesn't mean we can't change that.

If I read correctly you're at 12mg per day max. Is that correct? Have you been on a consistent dose the last several days? Sounds like you're jumping around with your dose and experiencing symptoms because of the way you're taking the medication. You need to be on a level and steady dose for four consecutive days. Let me know exactly what you've done the last week. Then I will tell you what to do to smooth out. I'll take you down the correct way and we'll eliminate these symptoms at the same time. I do this every single day. Let me know. God bless.

[sentia]

Will stop the 2mg nibble program.

Been on no no more than 12mg per day for 4 days min. Prior to that it was 16mg for 3 days. Usually now .5 morning, late afternoon and late evening. Then today, I did only .25 this morning and nothing since (it's late afternoon now). Not jumping around per se but rapidly reducing and never going then higher from that point.

I only say I'm willing to go through some w/d because the way I feel right now is pretty bad and a little w/d with no more of this sounds like relief! That said, if we can do both, great!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by sentia

Will stop the 2mg nibble program.

Been on no no more than 12mg per day for 4 days min. Prior to that it was 16mg for 3 days. Usually now .5 morning, late afternoon and late evening. Then today, I did only .25 this morning and nothing since (it's late afternoon now). Not jumping around per se but rapidly reducing and never going then higher from that point.

I only say I'm willing to go through some w/d because the way I feel right now is pretty bad and a little w/d with no more of this sounds like relief! That said, if we can do both, great!

You've been going a little too fast. I admire your attitude but RELAX! This will all work out fine.

You need to stabilize again before you drop again. When you say .25 is that 1/4 of a pill (2mg) or did you only take .25mg???? Need to know that so we can make a plan. IF it's 1/4 a pill then you should take 4mg right now

[sentia]

By .25 I meant 1/4 of an 8mg pill so 2mg. I will take 4mg now, thanks!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by sentia

By .25 I meant 1/4 of an 8mg pill so 2mg. I will take 4mg now, thanks!

I don't know what time it is where you are at now. It's 6:00 here. I don't want you taking the subs late at night but I want you to be totally stable tonite. So let me know how you feel in say about an hour or so. I'll be checking on and off here. I want to see how the 4mg works for you before we decide if you need any more. You most likely will.

Tomorrow we will plan your doses on what we determine in a little while. We are going to get you on track and feeling good at the same time. Trust me. Talk in an hour or so. God bless.

[sentia]

I feel pretty good having taken the 4mg earlier (no addtl since) and so am going to sleep. I'll be back online in the later morning to check-in! Thanks again.

[Robert_325]

We need to get you on two equal doses Weds and keep you there for the remainder of this process. Talk to me when you get up please.

If for some reason we miss each other this morning you should plan on taking 4mg when you get up and another 4mg late in the day. Take NOTHING in between. I would like to speak with you during the day so I'll know if this plan needs any modifications. We can then start a taper after a few days. But it's important to have you totally stabilized. Let me know how you feel when you get up please. God bless.

[sentia]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

We need to get you on two equal doses Weds and keep you there for the remainder of this process. Talk to me when you get up please.

If for some reason we miss each other this morning you should plan on taking 4mg when you get up and another 4mg late in the day. Take NOTHING in between. I would like to speak with you during the day so I'll know if this plan needs any modifications. We can then start a taper after a few days. But it's important to have you totally stabilized. Let me know how you feel when you get up please. God bless.

Good Morning Robert! Last night I woke up around 2AM sweating like crazy (soaked sheets) and it wouldn't relent so I had another 4mg (fell asleep with it under my tongue). So that's a total of 10mg yesterday and you were obviously right, reducing a little too fast! As I mentioned I need to sleep a lot lately and could sleep more but I force myself to get up. (10-11 hrs min.) Historically I only need 8.5 and am good to go.

This morning I feel the same as I have each morning for the past several weeks, sore and wiped out like Suboxone is really taking a lot out out of me. Curiously, the joints in my fingers can crack repeatedly just stretching my hands out (you know when you cross your fingers together and stretch your arms out). It's like my joints are taking a major beating? I'll go ahead and take 4mg now (9am) to start the day.

I did try to quit hydro/oxy cold turkey a several times and that was much harder (although it only went 2-3 days). Starting suboxone the wrong way (inducted wrong as you've explained above) has now put me on week 4 of some pretty rough mornings making it difficult to say which is worse. If I had done it correctly I tend to believe it would have been pretty smooth sailing.

I wonder why I feel sooo lousy in the mornings but at least 50% better by mid-day and thru the evening? I'm in a good mood each day only because I feel positive about getting clean and doing whatever it takes. I'm not letting this process get me down but tbh it's a bit demoralizing waking up each day feeling like this. I'm really hoping it will improve in the next week at least. I'm very fortunate that I am able to work from home and set my own hours, I feel for people who have to get to work every day feeling like this! Thank you for your generous help, I'll stay tuned.

[Robert_325]

I want you to NOT take anything else during the day until the late dose this afternoon/early evening. At that time take 6mg but talk to me first. Then no more for the evening. I want you to be on two even doses each day. You should have taken a little more this morning like 5mg. DON'T take more than two doses today. We need to get you on track with the right dose twice each day. When I get you stable then you'll feel a lot better. NO MORE of this waking up sweating business in the middle of the night.

Talk to me later during the day. But DON'T take anything else today but that other 6mg and not until we talk. We will get you stable at 10mg hopefully. I need to see how you do on two doses so I can decide if 12mg is necessary. I'm not going to be taking your dose back up higher but you've got to stabilze before you start dropping the dose. We will talk in a little while. God bless.

[sentia]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

<snip>
<snip>
Talk to me later during the day. But DON'T take anything else today but that other 6mg and not until we talk. We will get you stable at 10mg hopefully. I need to see how you do on two doses so I can decide if 12mg is necessary. I'm not going to be taking your dose back up higher but you've got to stabilze before you start dropping the dose. We will talk in a little while. God bless.

OK it's 8PM here and I'm feeling the sweats starting w/ a bit of anxiety but otherwise it's been fine up to now. I've only done the 5mg from this morning (~9am) so far today...

[Robert_325]

Go ahead and take the other 5mg if you haven't done so already. I've been at church where I go on Weds nights. Just got in. Take the 5mg tonite and repeat the same schedule again tomorrow ... two doses of 5mg each. I will talk to you during the day tomorrow except take the late dose earlier tomorrow like at 6:00 or so. Let me know if you're having any problems. God bless.

[DarrenKavinoky]

Good luck in your efforts to get clean. Remember to be careful when taking the drugs you're on - you can get arrested for DUI even when taking legally prescribed drugs. My thoughts are with you.

[journey821]

Originally Posted by sentia

In brief: I am a 40 yrs old male, started hydro/oxy for good reasons, kept using for the wrong reasons. Ended up at 120-140mg of oxy at peak and couldn't keep up with the habit, waking up at night with withdrawls (yawning so much my jaw became painful!), not to mention expensive and dealing with the anxiety from the guilt that came from allowing myself to get here! <insert the usual long story about how I justified continued using after my injury, add a fortunate financial situation that made it easier>

Found a Doctor out of state as none locally could take more suboxone patients. Started ~8 weeks ago on 16Mg for 1 week, everything was pretty good! No withdrawls, felt great but had some trouble sleeping. Dr. stepped me up to 20-24Mg (added 4-8mg in the evening) for 3 weeks. About 3-4 weeks into treatment these side effects started. Bowel movements no more often than every 6-7 days and an increasing soreness in the mornings.

About two weeks ago these symptoms increased to the point of it being very difficult to get moving in the morning. Joints and muscles very very sore, especially in my legs. Painful to stretch my fingers and legs. About 10 days ago I voluntarily began a rapid step-down in the suboxone believing that too much was the cause. I know it's not recommended to step-down this quickly but I wonder if I might have had too much to begin with. I'm down to no more than 12mg per day and trying for 8mg today. Regular bowel movements have returned! I get sudden sweating outbreaks which is my signal to take a quarter or half (2-4mg) of suboxone. Sometimes I just let those pass and do not take until I seem to get so irritable I can't stand being around myself.

Unfortunately I still have very painful mornings. The joints in my fingers/hands are incredibly sore each morning and I just feel like I've been doing some kind of major hard work the previous day (I've worked in a mill, concrete/construction, chopped wood for a living) -- it's that kind of soreness times perhaps at least two (2). I'm not complaining and clearly it's not debilitating, just incredibly uncomfortable. I'm sleeping 10-11 hours a day and having to forcing myself to get up. I'm a relatively happy and energetic person eager to do things every day and so this is especially unusual and undesirable. Oddly, after about 3 hours into my day the soreness is down by 50% and better as the day goes but then it begins again the next morning at full strength.

I just wanted to share this FWIW to others. I've read a ton of the posts in the forums and appreciate this resource so much, thanks to all of you, especially Robert but others also for all of the good counsel and information (not to mention common sense).

Returning to hydro/oxy is simply not an option - I categorically refuse to go back to that awful place *not even once*. I have not relapsed since beginning sub. I drink no more than 1-2 beers on any given day, sometimes none. I could cut those out entirely if I thought it had anything to do with it. I am not taking anything else and eat quite healthy. In any case, my absolute mission is to work my way off the suboxone hoping that at these lower doses I will soon get over the highly uncomfortable side-effects I'm experiencing.

I am calling my doctor in a minute to give him the update - when I first complained he seemed to think I needed to start a mild anti-depressant which I really don't feel I need. I am just having this strong gut feeling that my sub dose was/is too high and I need to get it down as much as possible, fast. I'll go from there. My Dr. stated "there are no side effects from Suboxone" -- I mentioned constipation and he admitted that much). I get the feeling some Dr.'s are still so new to this they don't know about side effects.

If anyone can share more about similar symptoms and their progress to alleviate them I would love to hear it and I think it may benefit others here.

My deepest respect and admiration for everyone here who is trying to heal and repair themselves, or here to help them do so, and all of it in a community that simply and truly cares and doesn't judge.

Humbly,

I just had to reply to you because your story was and is very similar to mine. I too was abusing painmeds and ended up on Suboxone. I thought I was the only one who was experiencing these pains!! I wake up with pain in my back as if someone has literally kicked me,and as embarrasing as it is to admit, I only have a bowel movement every 5-7 days!!! I have talked this over with my sub dr. and of course he has said to me that none of his other patients are experiencing these side effects!!! I think thats a crock of you know what!! I also sweat alot and being a women that isnt cool! I am down to only 2mg tabs 2x a day so thats a total of 4mgs a day, sometimes I do have to take an additional 2mg to take the edge off but more than anything Suboxone has saved my life I was spending so much money trying to purchase percocet or any painmed I could get my hands on! I dont have any interest in using, no desire at all, thank GOD!

[sentia]

Originally Posted by journey821

I just had to reply to you because your story was and is very similar to mine. I too was abusing painmeds and ended up on Suboxone. I thought I was the only one who was experiencing these pains!! I wake up with pain in my back as if someone has literally kicked me,and as embarrasing as it is to admit, I only have a bowel movement every 5-7 days!!! I have talked this over with my sub dr. and of course he has said to me that none of his other patients are experiencing these side effects!!! I think thats a crock of you know what!! I also sweat alot and being a women that isnt cool! I am down to only 2mg tabs 2x a day so thats a total of 4mgs a day, sometimes I do have to take an additional 2mg to take the edge off but more than anything Suboxone has saved my life I was spending so much money trying to purchase percocet or any painmed I could get my hands on! I dont have any interest in using, no desire at all, thank GOD!

Thanks for replying. Yeah the pain is awful, but by far the worst in the morning, do you start feeling a lot better as the day goes on? Now that I'm down to 10mg per day I've gotten pretty regular so hopefully as you come down just a bit you'll get some relief there - not a good feeling! I went eight days once and thought, "uh oh".... something gotta give!

Yes, either we're unique in experiencing these symptoms or the doctors and patients have a big secret they're keeping. I'm presuming it must be the former for whatever reason. I read once somewhere (probably here) about how some people who abuse pain medicines end up with acute joint pain after coming off of them and for quite awhile in those cases. Anyway, I'll deal with whatever I have to in order to stay off. I'm just really hoping the painful mornings subside one day. Even throughout the day as I sit for more than just a little while it's like my joints and bones are just locking up. I imagine this is what it feels like to be much much older than I am with joint problems or arthritis. I am considering going to a regular doctor to see if something else might be going on but that would be quite a coincidence, I'm quite certain it's suboxone related. Despite that, I maintain suboxone is a welcome solution to eliminate withdrawls while working to getting clean.

Did your doctor start you on a very high dose also? I believe Robert when he says I was started on too much but it's difficult to know if that would have resulted in different side effects for me at this stage. There's another thread where a person discusses difficult side effects like these with suboxone: http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...elp-38965.html I don't have a minute now to search forums but I think I'm going to start digging into some more research on this, would be nice to know if there's a positive outcome and at what point generally.

Good luck and best wishes.

[danielgaule]

Hi everyone Im new and finally got signed up. I have been involved with Subs for almost 3 years now. Long story, but I went cold turkey while taking about 6mgs/day a few times. The withdrawal is medium hard, but extend and especially the low energy etc. The reason I want to get off of subs, is that it has ruined my life. I had been clean from opiates for a long time (7+yrs). I was living in Maine, and even though there is a lot of smack and oxys up there I had no desire. I loved it up there. I swam in the cold water, went skiing and snow shoeing in the winter, it was calm and nature beautiful. I had just recently divorced, and got through without using drugs, and actually got cusotdy of my girls....basically a good spiritual life and everything that goes along with not using and being in recovery.
I had to move back to Miami in 2006 because my older mother had become ill and it was better for the girls. So I transfered back to Miami. My mom had percocettes and fentanyl and all sorts of stuff laying around and started taking them within a month of moving. That summer I could not stop and found out about suboxone and found a sub doc. The first couple of weeks seemed great. Then I noticed slowly, little by little I started loosing: Libido, my love of anything in the ocean, going on long hikes in the woods, I started to get anti social, a lot of anxiety and confusion (especially if I upped the dose). But anyway it has gone down since. I recently (I'm putting a lot of years in a couple of paragraphs) got out of a relationship that was not helping matters, and now have the mental energy to attempt to taper. Like everyone, I am terrified of the W/D. I mean W/D is like being tortured to me. I cannot relate to people that just seem to be bothered by the physical uncomfort etc. I completely come unglued. I feel extremely depressed, worthless, tired, vulnerable, sad, cry, sneeze, yawn and again- but the feeling of worthlessness I hate, its tempting to end things. (even though I have done a lot in my life and have raised two beautiful girls that graduate soon). I seem to have no will power. I dont want to go to meetings, etc etc. This site is the first place I have found where I may get some support, and not the judgemental- "Did you go to a meeting today?" stuff.
I want to taper, and get off. Like everyone I want a minimal amount of discomfort, but I know that there is no free ride. In the past, I have W/D from Heroin, Methadone, darvon (easy) Vics, Oxys, and Fentanyl. There is a lady who had great advice and I hope she may see my post or one of you could tell her I asked about her- "sheloveskoalas" something like that. I have read some of her posts and she likes to help people. I like her idea of letting your body tell you when you need the next dose. (when you are getting towards the end of a taper). Because the half life of this med is unbelievable. I have stopped when I was down to 1mg, and in 5 days "wham!" the W/Ds. But any advice or encouragement I would be so so grateful. Im taking 2mg/ 2X day or 4mg/24hrs.
ie 2 of the two's morning and late afternoon. Thanks everyone for being here
Daniel

[ddosher]

Originally Posted by danielgaule

Hi everyone Im new and finally got signed up. I have been involved with Subs for almost 3 years now. Long story, but I went cold turkey while taking about 6mgs/day a few times. The withdrawal is medium hard, but extend and especially the low energy etc. The reason I want to get off of subs, is that it has ruined my life. I had been clean from opiates for a long time (7+yrs). I was living in Maine, and even though there is a lot of smack and oxys up there I had no desire. I loved it up there. I swam in the cold water, went skiing and snow shoeing in the winter, it was calm and nature beautiful. I had just recently divorced, and got through without using drugs, and actually got cusotdy of my girls....basically a good spiritual life and everything that goes along with not using and being in recovery.
I had to move back to Miami in 2006 because my older mother had become ill and it was better for the girls. So I transfered back to Miami. My mom had percocettes and fentanyl and all sorts of stuff laying around and started taking them within a month of moving. That summer I could not stop and found out about suboxone and found a sub doc. The first couple of weeks seemed great. Then I noticed slowly, little by little I started loosing: Libido, my love of anything in the ocean, going on long hikes in the woods, I started to get anti social, a lot of anxiety and confusion (especially if I upped the dose). But anyway it has gone down since. I recently (I'm putting a lot of years in a couple of paragraphs) got out of a relationship that was not helping matters, and now have the mental energy to attempt to taper. Like everyone, I am terrified of the W/D. I mean W/D is like being tortured to me. I cannot relate to people that just seem to be bothered by the physical uncomfort etc. I completely come unglued. I feel extremely depressed, worthless, tired, vulnerable, sad, cry, sneeze, yawn and again- but the feeling of worthlessness I hate, its tempting to end things. (even though I have done a lot in my life and have raised two beautiful girls that graduate soon). I seem to have no will power. I dont want to go to meetings, etc etc. This site is the first place I have found where I may get some support, and not the judgemental- "Did you go to a meeting today?" stuff.
I want to taper, and get off. Like everyone I want a minimal amount of discomfort, but I know that there is no free ride. In the past, I have W/D from Heroin, Methadone, darvon (easy) Vics, Oxys, and Fentanyl. There is a lady who had great advice and I hope she may see my post or one of you could tell her I asked about her- "sheloveskoalas" something like that. I have read some of her posts and she likes to help people. I like her idea of letting your body tell you when you need the next dose. (when you are getting towards the end of a taper). Because the half life of this med is unbelievable. I have stopped when I was down to 1mg, and in 5 days "wham!" the W/Ds. But any advice or encouragement I would be so so grateful. Im taking 2mg/ 2X day or 4mg/24hrs.
ie 2 of the two's morning and late afternoon. Thanks everyone for being here
Daniel

Robert_325 should be on before the night is over and he will help you come up with a plan to help you with your taper. His plan is listed on this forum somewhere...if you seek you will find, however, he will talk you through it daily depending on how you are feeling etc. His is the best advice. He has assisted many here successfully. I was not one of the lucky ones...I went cold turkey myself off of 6mgs and it was hell. I am better after 57 days but I am still not right. Best of luck to you.

Donna