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Want off Suboxone
  1. #301
    PSsalgal is offline Junior Member
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    Thumbs up they do it every year all winter

    I just get to the window and scream until they get up. My neighbors say way to go for they keep the whole neighborhood up. They are as I said snowbirds and are here from sept until it starts getting hot. Finally can open a window and problem is I don't sleep well and if I wake at three and wait for dog to stop and then get mad and yell, I don't get back to sleep and now is not the time for that. Animal control says they need an address and I don't know.... I am in one gated community and they are somewhere behind. But if I scream like I did every morning at 3 am I will wake everyone and someone will do something. Such trash not to care. It is so nice to have window open FiNALLY.... so I go to sleep worrying the dog will start. If I could hop the fence and find what unit.... but it is a million condos.. I can't imagine how the neighbors there don't do something. IT IS EVERY darn winter..... Good idea to get earplugs. LOL..... That is the least of my worries. I just get so darn mad. love ya, me at them not you....... love you

  2. #302
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    HI Sally
    I was just checking in on you to see how it was going and if you got to sleep last night...
    talk to you soon, Melinda

  3. #303
    everdown84 is offline New Member
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    Robert, Hey Brother, I communicated earlier this month and u helped me out by showing me the Sub. Taper formula u put together (thank you). I started yesterday and like a dummy let my dr give me 16mg. This morning I can dose at home and on my own, so I wanna do ur method. I only took half a 8mg at 0830 this morning. When do u suggest I take other half? ( im just gonna give it my all to only take 8mg a day to start, theres no reason to take more, right? Also, after I took it yesterday I felt like I was on REALLY POTENT speed and had to take 75mg promethazine to sleepand xanax that im prescribed(next to go), have u heard of this speedy feeling before? Maby its just my personality, i dunno, but I feel like im going 1000mph inside. Robert, THanks for your time, I know how precious it is and like u I am a child of God! and I know vast riches are being stored on your behalf in our Fathers house! God Bless!

  4. #304
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by everdown84 View Post
    Robert, Hey Brother, I communicated earlier this month and u helped me out by showing me the Sub. Taper formula u put together (thank you). I started yesterday and like a dummy let my dr give me 16mg. This morning I can dose at home and on my own, so I wanna do ur method. I only took half a 8mg at 0830 this morning. When do u suggest I take other half? ( im just gonna give it my all to only take 8mg a day to start, theres no reason to take more, right? Also, after I took it yesterday I felt like I was on REALLY POTENT speed and had to take 75mg promethazine to sleepand xanax that im prescribed(next to go), have u heard of this speedy feeling before? Maby its just my personality, i dunno, but I feel like im going 1000mph inside. Robert, THanks for your time, I know how precious it is and like u I am a child of God! and I know vast riches are being stored on your behalf in our Fathers house! God Bless!





    Thank you for the kind words but in answer to the question about when to take the other 8mg you DON'T take it at all! It's been ONE DAY!

    Either stop completely and let me re-induct you where you'll end up at about 4-6mg immediately or else tough it through the day and don't take that other 8mg pill at all PERIOD. Then after about four days I'll still have you down to 6mg where you will stay until you begin tapering. That's the easiest way to do this considering the facts involved and the time you've been on subs.

    That dr is the exact type of dr I wrote about in the sub therapy post you read but failed to follow the instructions to it. Let me know how you want to do this. One day is nothing but if you go on and do the 16mg you're not listening to anything I said. And you'll end up battling this like so many others you read about. BAD MISTAKE!!!]

    I've done this for years and have probably worked with more people on subs than your dr. Trust what I'm telling you or I can't help you. You have to believe me for us to work together successfully. The choice is yours, but you need to decide today what you are going to do before you get in any deeper in this mess. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 09-21-2010 at 10:23 AM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #305
    everdown84 is offline New Member
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    Lets do this...And I want U to know I am totally comitted to getting totally clean off opiates and I will be 100% honest and wont waste your time. I WILL BE a fruit of your labor. Friday Sep 17th was my last 20mg dose of methadone and.... like I said yesterday I had to dose 16mg in front of the doctor and the only reason I took that much is because I need him to give me enough suboxone to last my entire taper without seeing him again, so, basically im telling him im going to take 16mg but actually im going to do ur method. The whole reason for this is because I cant afford to see him again,( My dr gives me a script for 60 8mg tabs and im gonna only buy a week at a time so I wont buy too much and wont run short and I and wont have to pay to see dr for another script)................................ Today I took 4mg (half of 8mg) before I wrote u and 2mg about 3 hours later...then I came home a read ur message. So, Ive taken a total of 6mg today , feeling ok. Just really speedy and kinda anxious but nothing that I cant handle. Should I just go with the 6mg for induction or do I have to wait for a 26 on the COWS to find right induction? Im gonna wait on you to tell me my next move, Thanks Brother!

    I hope I didnt confuse you with the whole reason of why I took 16mg, I needed to get one prescription that will last me the whole taper without a doubt and the dr made me dose in front of him, to be sure I was taking what he prescribed I guess, because after I get my script I wont have any resorces to see that dr again and I dont wanna run out before end of taper, just U and I. The doctor wouldnt be cool if I told him your/my plan, he is a turd. Talk to u later sorry to be redundant

  6. #306
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by everdown84 View Post
    Lets do this...And I want U to know I am totally comitted to getting totally clean off opiates and I will be 100% honest and wont waste your time. I WILL BE a fruit of your labor. Friday Sep 17th was my last 20mg dose of methadone and.... like I said yesterday I had to dose 16mg in front of the doctor and the only reason I took that much is because I need him to give me enough suboxone to last my entire taper without seeing him again, so, basically im telling him im going to take 16mg but actually im going to do ur method. The whole reason for this is because I cant afford to see him again,( My dr gives me a script for 60 8mg tabs and im gonna only buy a week at a time so I wont buy too much and wont run short and I and wont have to pay to see dr for another script)................................ Today I took 4mg (half of 8mg) before I wrote u and 2mg about 3 hours later...then I came home a read ur message. So, Ive taken a total of 6mg today , feeling ok. Just really speedy and kinda anxious but nothing that I cant handle. Should I just go with the 6mg for induction or do I have to wait for a 26 on the COWS to find right induction? Im gonna wait on you to tell me my next move, Thanks Brother!

    I hope I didnt confuse you with the whole reason of why I took 16mg, I needed to get one prescription that will last me the whole taper without a doubt and the dr made me dose in front of him, to be sure I was taking what he prescribed I guess, because after I get my script I wont have any resorces to see that dr again and I dont wanna run out before end of taper, just U and I. The doctor wouldnt be cool if I told him your/my plan, he is a turd. Talk to u later sorry to be redundant



    If you are willing to get re-inducted by getting back to a 26 on the COWS worksheet that would be the very best for you. I guarantee that I will induct you at a minimal dose, totally different than the way the dr is doing it. I wouldn't just automatically start at 6mg as we may can get you much lower than that. Another current member Henry is a perfect example.

    If you have sixty 8mg pills right now and you'll let me re-induct you I bet we can do this with what you have currently. Don't say anything about what we're doing JUST IN CASE you need a few extra pills, but I really doubt you will.

    Let me know if you want to re-induct. Look for the guy named Henry on this forum. His posts are everywhere. He reinducted at 1.25mg and the drs originally gave him 40mg I believe. Henry has been clean for a year and was done with all this in about six weeks.

    This would be a perfect time to do this after just one day. The only negative part is getting to that 26 score again, but for such a great benefit that you would receive I think it would be a small price to pay.

    I have NEVER inducted anyone in ALL the time I've been here that was not successful in a minimal amount of time. It's when people show up after the sub drs have them all messed up and we have to fix problems that make it more difficult. This is a blessing for you I promise! Let me know and if you agree to do it I am commited to your success! And doing the reinduction would pretty much assure your sixty pills will suffice. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 09-21-2010 at 03:23 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #307
    Niev0000 is offline New Member
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    Default Helping pregnant girlfriend getting off Suboxone/Subutex using deception?

    Hello, My girlfriend has been taking Suboxone for one year and one month. She went from 4mg (for about 10 month) to 2mg every other day during the last weeks. Once she became pregnant I was very worry of the unknown side effects of Suboxone and health problems on the fetus or child. I didn't want to see a baby going through withdrawal. She is afraid and very insecure of dropping off the drug completely. She is "absolutely sure" that she can't make it. Her doctor recommended her methadone but she prefers subutex because she won't have to drive daily to a clinic for methadone. During all these months, every morning I give her her dose before I leave to work. She always swallows the pill with the help of some juice.
    Seven days ago I gave her half of a pill. The only difference is that it is not Suboxone but a vitamin C orange pill (looks like the soboxone pill). I been doing this since and she has been going through some pain and discomfort. Because she is taking the "pill" she thinks that her pains are related with her pregnancy.
    I will like you all to share your opinions about what I'm doing. I planned on letting her know sometime in the future, maybe a month or two later. I also plan on letting her doctor know. I can't let him know now because if he does she will not qualify to be in the support program due the fact that this program is only for people using Suboxone.
    Please share your comments, good or bad. thanks.

  8. #308
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niev0000 View Post
    Hello, My girlfriend has been taking Suboxone for one year and one month. She went from 4mg (for about 10 month) to 2mg every other day during the last weeks. Once she became pregnant I was very worry of the unknown side effects of Suboxone and health problems on the fetus or child. I didn't want to see a baby going through withdrawal. She is afraid and very insecure of dropping off the drug completely. She is "absolutely sure" that she can't make it. Her doctor recommended her methadone but she prefers subutex because she won't have to drive daily to a clinic for methadone. During all these months, every morning I give her her dose before I leave to work. She always swallows the pill with the help of some juice.
    Seven days ago I gave her half of a pill. The only difference is that it is not Suboxone but a vitamin C orange pill (looks like the soboxone pill). I been doing this since and she has been going through some pain and discomfort. Because she is taking the "pill" she thinks that her pains are related with her pregnancy.
    I will like you all to share your opinions about what I'm doing. I planned on letting her know sometime in the future, maybe a month or two later. I also plan on letting her doctor know. I can't let him know now because if he does she will not qualify to be in the support program due the fact that this program is only for people using Suboxone.
    Please share your comments, good or bad. thanks.



    I totally DISAGREE with what you're doing. She needs to be under the care of her OBGYN and not having placebo medication given to her as an experiment while she is pregnant.

    NO WAY that I would EVER do that! She is carrying a little baby! I would go totally NUTS if that were my daughter. I mean that will all due respect but she is NOT a good candidate to be a guinea pig for an experiment while carrying a baby! Opiate detox can cause a miscarriage and all kinds of serious problems. You're playing with fire!

    She needs the best of care by her dr. I can't even imagine doing this no matter what the intentions and how good they are meant to be! Please let the dr take care of her! God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 09-21-2010 at 04:13 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  9. #309
    everdown84 is offline New Member
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    Alright, Im gonna go with the re- induction. I hate it (Getting to 26) BUT I know your right and have my best intrest at heart! How long do you think it will take? I just helps to mentally prepare for whatever amount of time. Would it be correct for me to say that that I should ONLY expect the Sub to take away the MOST SERIOUS withdrawal effects? Leaving maby some anxiety and insomnia? Now, one hurdle im going to have to overcome is the Dr making me dose in front of him, hopefully tomorrow is the last day he will do that, Im gonna put a lil orange metamusil under my tongue before I even go in and then just put a orange starburst in my mouth that is cut to look like a sub. If I get caught I could just come clean and tell them what im doing but I seriously doubt that I will. DO u have any better suggestions(on how to ">>>>" dose so I can get to 26)? So, I will send u a message in the morning as soon as I get back from DR and let u know how it goes? So im going with the RE-INDUCTION and im NOT taking ANY SUB UNTIL U INSTRUCT ME TO DO SO AND HOW U SAY TO DO IT!,(being I can trick dr) If u could just let me know how long I should expect before being at 26and re-induce? Thanks for everything
    Last edited by everdown84; 09-21-2010 at 05:30 PM.

  10. #310
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    Niev.... What you're doing is VERY dangerous. You are NOT supposed to withdraw while pregnant. It could cause her to have a miscarriage. THere is one thing I noted in your post that I don't understand. You say through all the months, you give her her sub in the morning and she swallows it with juice. Sub does not work taken that way. It has to be melted under the tongue or it doesn't get absorbed into the system so maybe she hasn't really been getting a majority of the sub this whole time. Please clarify. Has she been swallowing the pill without it melting under the tongue? Because if she has been taking it under the tongue, she would surely know the difference between sub and a Vitamin C. So I'm confused but I do know that you are making a big mistake forcing her to get off while pregnant. Many women have taken methadone while pregnant and it's been proven safe. I believe the same can be say for sub though it hasn't been around as long.

  11. #311
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by everdown84 View Post
    Alright, Im gonna go with the re- induction. I hate it (Getting to 26) BUT I know your right and have my best intrest at heart! How long do you think it will take? I just helps to mentally prepare for whatever amount of time. Would it be correct for me to say that that I should ONLY expect the Sub to take away the MOST SERIOUS withdrawal effects? Leaving maby some anxiety and insomnia? Now, one hurdle im going to have to overcome is the Dr making me dose in front of him, hopefully tomorrow is the last day he will do that, Im gonna put a lil orange metamusil under my tongue before I even go in and then just put a orange starburst in my mouth that is cut to look like a sub. If I get caught I could just come clean and tell them what im doing but I seriously doubt that I will. DO u have any better suggestions(on how to ">>>>" dose so I can get to 26)? So, I will send u a message in the morning as soon as I get back from DR and let u know how it goes? So im going with the RE-INDUCTION and im NOT taking ANY SUB UNTIL U INSTRUCT ME TO DO SO AND HOW U SAY TO DO IT!,(being I can trick dr) If u could just let me know how long I should expect before being at 26and re-induce? Thanks for everything



    I sent a message to Henry and he will be contacting you as well. But I'm very pleased you're doing this the right way.

    I don't have a better suggestion for "faking out" the dr about taking the subs in front of him. I've never had to do that myself. Only other thing would be to put it in your mouth and turn away somehow spitting it into your hand and then your pocket. I don't know what to tell you there.

    The time invovlved coming off methadone will be close to 72 hours if you are like most. So much depends on your metabolism and other variables. That is why the COWS worksheet is invaluable. There are NO mistakes using it. It doesn't matter if you're a 26 in one day if you do it using the COWS worksheet. Just score yourself accurately so you don't go into precipitated w/d which is no fun at all. It's total hell to induce too soon.

    Let me know how tomorrow goes. I'm curious to see what happens at the dr. Let me know when you get your first chance. Then we can get on with getting you clean. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  12. #312
    everdown84 is offline New Member
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    NIEV0000......Im sure you have the best of intentions....However.. YOU ARE PUTTING THAT BABIES VERY LIFE IN GRAVE DANGER! PLEASE.. make an appt. with OBGYN and YOU and HER go and tell Dr exaclly what you have been doing (not giving her the suboxone) and let the Dr stabilize her on whatever they choose. Inducing opiate withdrawal in a pregnant woman could most likely result in a spontaneous >>>>>>>>. Pregnancy is a delicate process and to ensure the babies health is highest priority. A Dr stablizing her on "whatever" they choose ( in her current situation) is really the safest option at this point in time. Dont be so hard on yourself, her either. Im sure neither of you planned on having a baby under these circumstances. I can tell you my wife had my most precious daughter two years ago while on a daily methadone dose. . I was really hard on myself and felt like a horrible husband and a really horrible father during the pregnancy, because I introduced my wife to opiates in the first place.And after 8 months of being so scared of what might be, my little Gianna came out without any complications and needed no after care! Dont be hard on yourself like I was. Its obvious you want the best for the baby, U just need a Dr to explain to BOTH of you what, why and how. Then go from there. The more honest you are with the Dr the better! God Bless and Congratulations on the baby!!!

  13. #313
    everdown84 is offline New Member
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    GAME ON! I just got back from Dr. I did a good job of ">>>> dosing"!!!Only put half an 8mg and then Just excused myself to restroom and spit it out in a plastic bag!! Now, I didnt expect this, but the Dr gave me a script for subUTEX w/o nalaxone 60 8mg tabs. Does this work better than subOXONE for taper? I know it cost 1/3 the price. He gave me another script for only 2 subUTEX so I can see what I like better before I buy the who bottle. What have you had best success with. The subOXONE did make me anxious as heck. So, im gonna keep u posted as im not using anything and waiting for moderate/severe withdrawal, and will obviously let you know when I reach 26! I am really excited about this thing getting under way, I just need to pick up MY cross and follow HIM. Thanks Brother...Talk to you soon!
    Last edited by everdown84; 09-22-2010 at 10:29 AM.

  14. #314
    Niev0000 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I totally DISAGREE with what you're doing. She needs to be under the care of her OBGYN and not having placebo medication given to her as an experiment while she is pregnant.

    NO WAY that I would EVER do that! She is carrying a little baby! I would go totally NUTS if that were my daughter. I mean that will all due respect but she is NOT a good candidate to be a guinea pig for an experiment while carrying a baby! Opiate detox can cause a miscarriage and all kinds of serious problems. You're playing with fire!

    She needs the best of care by her dr. I can't even imagine doing this no matter what the intentions and how good they are meant to be! Please let the dr take care of her! God bless.
    I agree with you that she needs the best care. She is 4 to 5 weeks pregnant. Three months ago she had a miscarriage. She was doing everything she was told, no attempt to withdraw from suboxone and still doctors found that it was developing out of the uterus.
    I was with her at the beginning of that pregnancy when her doctor told her that if she “needed a reason to quit suboxone”, she just had a good one. Because she was undecided about quitting Suboxone the doctor was making arrangements for her to start on methadone. She never got there because she lost it first.
    I understand the risks involved in withdrawing during pregnancy but in her case, because she was just taking half a pill every other day and I was trying to push the time (getting to give her the pill later than 48 hours intervals) in order to separate her body more from the chemical dependency I thought that the risks were worth it. I also don’t know what is worst, taking the risk of withdrawing or taking the risk of having a child with who know what + having to see him/her crying during detox. Withdrawing when the nervous system is not develop yet is better than once the system has developed (my humble opinion). Also to borrow your phrase, the “baby” is not a guinea pig. There are not enough studies of Suboxone and pregnancy.
    Today she is better than yesterday, hope that tomorrow she will be better than today.

    Also let’s remember that taking pills like Suboxone to overcome addiction and make the process less painful is really a luxury in our society. In many countries cold turkey is the only way. We also have to deal with the psychological issues of the addict and how the person can supersede and deal with the many issues behind the addiction. Addicts need compassion care and more important, the truth. They have to understand the consequences of their actions and how not always we can get what we want.
    I subscribe to the philosophy of the addict as a sick person that needs help and not the criminalization of the addicts. http://www.democracynow.org/2010/2/3/addiction
    I hope that everything ends the best way possible and that even when there was deception, she accepts and celebrate the fact that she was able to overcome dependency.
    Thank you

  15. #315
    Niev0000 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by newyorkgal View Post
    Niev.... What you're doing is VERY dangerous. You are NOT supposed to withdraw while pregnant. It could cause her to have a miscarriage. THere is one thing I noted in your post that I don't understand. You say through all the months, you give her her sub in the morning and she swallows it with juice. Sub does not work taken that way. It has to be melted under the tongue or it doesn't get absorbed into the system so maybe she hasn't really been getting a majority of the sub this whole time. Please clarify. Has she been swallowing the pill without it melting under the tongue? Because if she has been taking it under the tongue, she would surely know the difference between sub and a Vitamin C. So I'm confused but I do know that you are making a big mistake forcing her to get off while pregnant. Many women have taken methadone while pregnant and it's been proven safe. I believe the same can be say for sub though it hasn't been around as long.
    I appreciate your concerns and opinion. I understand the risks. We lost one without the withdrawing. Like many other addicts to >>>>>>, she went through extreme stress or traumas and this affected her self-esteem and her sense of being able to control her life. She has done enormous progress; she was doing lots of >>>>>> more than a year ago, started at 16 and now is 21. Comes from a dysfunctional family, overcrowded with addicts and lack of support. She failed several rehab programs. When I found her in life and took her to a rehab center she was in such distress that she obligated me to promise her not to abandon her. Story short: I started buying Suboxone in the streets because she didn’t have insurance. …. She has been over a year without relapse. It has been really hard on both and this latest one, getting out of Suboxone is small in comparison to the struggles before.

    I agree with you about the recommended way of taking the pill. I told her a million times. She refuse to take it that way and her doctor told us that by swallowing it the effects of the pill are not as quick (has to go through the digestive system) and powerful but nevertheless it will do its job. The Suboxone pill tastes like orange and the vitamin C pill does too. All she does is to put it in her mouth and drink juice to get it down. So for a second or two she will sense the orange like taste but the juice (apple, grape etc) will camouflage the peculiarities of the taste of the Suboxone versus Vitamin C pill.
    Thinking about it now, if by swallowing the pill made the pill less effective it means that her body became less addictive to it because was getting a weaker drug during all this time.. Maybe this was a good thing.
    Methadone is relatively safe but it is still not orange juice and she prefers another alternative. Also methadone is very disruptive because you have to go to a place every day to get it. Not like Suboxone which you get a prescription and go home until the next Dr. visit and her weekly support group.
    “Nothing records the effects of a sad life as graphically as the human body.”

  16. #316
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by everdown84 View Post
    GAME ON! I just got back from Dr. I did a good job of ">>>> dosing"!!!Only put half an 8mg and then Just excused myself to restroom and spit it out in a plastic bag!! Now, I didnt expect this, but the Dr gave me a script for subUTEX w/o nalaxone 60 8mg tabs. Does this work better than subOXONE for taper? I know it cost 1/3 the price. He gave me another script for only 2 subUTEX so I can see what I like better before I buy the who bottle. What have you had best success with. The subOXONE did make me anxious as heck. So, im gonna keep u posted as im not using anything and waiting for moderate/severe withdrawal, and will obviously let you know when I reach 26! I am really excited about this thing getting under way, I just need to pick up MY cross and follow HIM. Thanks Brother...Talk to you soon!




    everdown ...... We couldn't ask for a better break! I SOOO much like using subutex better than suboxone. No side effects from that nasty naloxone. With sixty 8mg pills of subutex and I'll have you clean buddy. STAY WITH THE SUBUTEX!!!!!

    Stick it out till you score the 26 again. Count on 2-3 days for sure. Stay in touch. I'm excited about this. You're going to freak out at how low a dose I induct you at AFTER. YOU GET TO THE 26!

    You'll have pills left over when this is done. I am jacked up about this. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  17. #317
    Niev0000 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by everdown84 View Post
    NIEV0000......Im sure you have the best of intentions....However.. YOU ARE PUTTING THAT BABIES VERY LIFE IN GRAVE DANGER! PLEASE.. make an appt. with OBGYN and YOU and HER go and tell Dr exaclly what you have been doing (not giving her the suboxone) and let the Dr stabilize her on whatever they choose. Inducing opiate withdrawal in a pregnant woman could most likely result in a spontaneous >>>>>>>>. Pregnancy is a delicate process and to ensure the babies health is highest priority. A Dr stablizing her on "whatever" they choose ( in her current situation) is really the safest option at this point in time. Dont be so hard on yourself, her either. Im sure neither of you planned on having a baby under these circumstances. I can tell you my wife had my most precious daughter two years ago while on a daily methadone dose. . I was really hard on myself and felt like a horrible husband and a really horrible father during the pregnancy, because I introduced my wife to opiates in the first place.And after 8 months of being so scared of what might be, my little Gianna came out without any complications and needed no after care! Dont be hard on yourself like I was. Its obvious you want the best for the baby, U just need a Dr to explain to BOTH of you what, why and how. Then go from there. The more honest you are with the Dr the better! God Bless and Congratulations on the baby!!!
    Thank you for sharing your emotional experience. I really know how it must have been for you at that time because this is going through my head every day.
    I took the good or bad decision of giving her the placebo pill because I think that many times the person will make him or herself sicker by thinking that he or her will get sick. If she was able to be almost 2.5 days without half a pill then why not try having more days without it at all? Now that she is only 5-6 weeks pregnant couldn’t be harder than when more time has passed. Believe me, if she was to the point that she couldn’t deal anymore with her agonies or pain I’ll gill her a portion of the pill to reduce what could be unbearable.
    In her case, what I saw was her complaining that her stomach hurt for 2 days, 2 days later her stomach + some bones and yesterday diareah. Last night she slept better than the night before. First I told her that it is the pregnancy and that it will get worst. “check it out, it’s all over the internet” (it’s true, some women do feel all these symptoms during pregnancy). I tried to keep her busy and entertained as much as possible. One day, when she felt that she couldn’t sleep I told her to take another half of a Sub pill. I had half a pill (vitamin C) mixed with the real ones. “There is one cut already” I told her. So she hasn’t been able to associate her discomforts with the lack of Sub. Today she feels better. Believe me, there were sad times in the past that against my own will I gave her money for drugs because her pains were unhuman. The pain that she is going through is nothing compared to the past, the only thing is that she doesn’t know the origin and her body is rebooting to normal.
    I will eventually tell her. The question that I ask myself is “when”?
    I also need to let her Obyn Dr know that she is really not taking any >>>>>> substitute medication. The trick is how to let her rehab dr. know without having her out of the program and support group when this is a program for people taking Suboxone or Subutex.
    Today I have to pick her first prescription of Subutex at the pharmacy. I already have a calcium vitamin bottle that I will use as substitute. It has to be a round shaped white pill.
    It will be hard to let her, after all these days of getting clean from Suboxone start a new drug. Everything is very hard. It is a risk and could also be immoral to do this but at the same time I have suffered a lot and it is pursuing the end of her being a drug free person.
    One of my girlfriend’s aunt had a child while on >>>>>>. The child died, he had many tumors. I am scare of having to see a person suffer just because someone prefers the more comfortable way. We all approach situations that don’t have one absolute correct answer. You win and you lose, no matter what.
    I’m doing this but with pain.
    Thanks for your response and keep that love for Gianna high.

  18. #318
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    The only good thing, Niev, is that if she has been taking the sub by mouth the whole time, she was actually probably only getting about 1/5 of the effect she would get taking it under the tongue. So that's a good thing. She isn't as addicted as she would be if taking it correctly. I still don't agree with withdrawal of any kind while pregnant but wish you the best of luck with the pregnancy and the baby.

  19. #319
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    everdown ...... We couldn't ask for a better break! I SOOO much like using subutex better than suboxone. No side effects from that nasty naloxone. With sixty 8mg pills of subutex and I'll have you clean buddy. STAY WITH THE SUBUTEX!!!!!

    Stick it out till you score the 26 again. Count on 2-3 days for sure. Stay in touch. I'm excited about this. You're going to freak out at how low a dose I induct you at AFTER. YOU GET TO THE 26!

    You'll have pills left over when this is done. I am jacked up about this. God bless.
    Everdown,
    Henry here. Please listen to what Robert is recommending to you. You will be pleasantly suprised and the end result is what counts. If you think about it and read all the other posts on this forum you will clearly see that most or almost all doctors really have no clue what subs are and how to properly use them. My own sub doctor wanted to start me on 8 mg tablets 4 times a day!!! That is 32 mg of Suboxone!!! I was already feeling really crummy and it just didn't sound right to me after researching subs so I started at 16 mg. After a few days on this I still felt terrible. When I stumbled across this forum I read many of the success stories and wanted so badly to be part of that success team. Robert was very kind and gracious enough to offer his help and I am darn glad I listened. What really caught my attention was when he said "we will get you stabilized on the absolute minimum amount of sub necessary to get you stabilized and taper from there". Now doesn't that make logicial sense? Modern medicine seems to base it's principles off of more is better and more works better but subs you will find are darn powerful little pills that work within a very narrow spectrum of us. Step out side of those parameters and you WILL wish you never did! In order to make it work right you will need to be inducted properly. Once that is established you will begin your taper. Done right you will be amazed and the quantity needed to stablize you. Get this now my doctors wanted to start me on up to 32mg a day!!! Following Robert's plan I was inducted and stabilized on only 1.25mg and tapered from there!!!!! Now doesn't 1.25mg sound a lot better than some other astronomical amount? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that less works just as good if not better than a lot here. Also my taper to clean was just under a month and a half instead of a long drawn out process and believe me that if they can doctors will keep you on subs for a very long time. Job security, ignorance, whatever but at the cost of YOUR HEALTH!!! As Robert stated a million times to every one he has helped you need to ride that edge and feel some W/D pain and symptoms. Subs will NOT mask it all but makes it easier to deal with in a controlled manner. You WILL still feel symptoms of W/D but no where near as bad as without if done properly and again you must remember that subs work within that narrow spectrum of use. Now regarding Subutex that is what I needed as I had a negative reaction to Naloxone which is one of the properties in Suboxone. Robert spotted this right off the bat and sure enough when I switched over to Subutex I was feeling like dancing that very next day when he got me stabilized. How cool is that?!?!? Hang in there buddy it can be done but the most important thing is to follow recomendations down to the letter. Never take things for granted and go off doing what you feel like or if you feel crummy pop some more subs. That is a big mistake which many people make and if you do that you might as well be doing this alone and whenever you feel like because subs do not work like that. You will be hard pressed to find another med out there that if you follow the schedule you will feel the results so positively so soon. Step out of those boundaries and you might as well go bang you head hard against a wall because that would actually feel better than trying to self adjust dosage to compensate and that only leads to more compensation and more still so you are forever trying to balance and time doses. Keep moving forward and keep posting. I'll be watching you also and cheering you on!

    Henry

  20. #320
    everdown84 is offline New Member
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    Robert, Thank you so much for sharing your story. It makes it so much easier to have people like yourself, Robert, and many others who are here to walk people threw the tough times and give us some insight into what we should expect. Just hearing your story really helps ease my mind. I am BOUND and DETERMINED to get clean, period. The fact that I have really insightful people to come to with my concerns makes me even more determined, NO EXCUSES! I want this like I want my next breath and im gonna get it. I am so belssed to have come across everybody here and with Roberts guidence this addiction will be HISTORY VERY SOON.
    Thanks you Henry, It just feels so good to hear someone made it OUT! God Bless!!!!!

  21. #321
    everdown84 is offline New Member
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    Robert, Just wanted to let you know im still Hangin' in there. Im still nowhere close to being ready to induce. Im scoring only around 17. I have never been so anxious to get sick, LOL! I will keep u posted, hopefully by tomorrow evening I will be ready, but who knows. Thank you and thanks for having Henry write me, That stuff REALLY helps! Talk to u soon!!!

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by everdown84 View Post
    GAME ON! I just got back from Dr. I did a good job of ">>>> dosing"!!!Only put half an 8mg and then Just excused myself to restroom and spit it out in a plastic bag!! Now, I didnt expect this, but the Dr gave me a script for subUTEX w/o nalaxone 60 8mg tabs. Does this work better than subOXONE for taper? I know it cost 1/3 the price. He gave me another script for only 2 subUTEX so I can see what I like better before I buy the who bottle. What have you had best success with. The subOXONE did make me anxious as heck. So, im gonna keep u posted as im not using anything and waiting for moderate/severe withdrawal, and will obviously let you know when I reach 26! I am really excited about this thing getting under way, I just need to pick up MY cross and follow HIM. Thanks Brother...Talk to you soon!
    Quote Originally Posted by everdown84 View Post
    Robert, Thank you so much for sharing your story. It makes it so much easier to have people like yourself, Robert, and many others who are here to walk people threw the tough times and give us some insight into what we should expect. Just hearing your story really helps ease my mind. I am BOUND and DETERMINED to get clean, period. The fact that I have really insightful people to come to with my concerns makes me even more determined, NO EXCUSES! I want this like I want my next breath and im gonna get it. I am so belssed to have come across everybody here and with Roberts guidence this addiction will be HISTORY VERY SOON.
    Thanks you Henry, It just feels so good to hear someone made it OUT! God Bless!!!!!
    I addressed this to Robert but it is for HENRY Sorry...brain not @ 100% right now.

  23. #323
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryNCBA View Post
    Everdown,
    Henry here. Please listen to what Robert is recommending to you. You will be pleasantly suprised and the end result is what counts. If you think about it and read all the other posts on this forum you will clearly see that most or almost all doctors really have no clue what subs are and how to properly use them. My own sub doctor wanted to start me on 8 mg tablets 4 times a day!!! That is 32 mg of Suboxone!!! I was already feeling really crummy and it just didn't sound right to me after researching subs so I started at 16 mg. After a few days on this I still felt terrible. When I stumbled across this forum I read many of the success stories and wanted so badly to be part of that success team. Robert was very kind and gracious enough to offer his help and I am darn glad I listened. What really caught my attention was when he said "we will get you stabilized on the absolute minimum amount of sub necessary to get you stabilized and taper from there". Now doesn't that make logicial sense? Modern medicine seems to base it's principles off of more is better and more works better but subs you will find are darn powerful little pills that work within a very narrow spectrum of us. Step out side of those parameters and you WILL wish you never did! In order to make it work right you will need to be inducted properly. Once that is established you will begin your taper. Done right you will be amazed and the quantity needed to stablize you. Get this now my doctors wanted to start me on up to 32mg a day!!! Following Robert's plan I was inducted and stabilized on only 1.25mg and tapered from there!!!!! Now doesn't 1.25mg sound a lot better than some other astronomical amount? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that less works just as good if not better than a lot here. Also my taper to clean was just under a month and a half instead of a long drawn out process and believe me that if they can doctors will keep you on subs for a very long time. Job security, ignorance, whatever but at the cost of YOUR HEALTH!!! As Robert stated a million times to every one he has helped you need to ride that edge and feel some W/D pain and symptoms. Subs will NOT mask it all but makes it easier to deal with in a controlled manner. You WILL still feel symptoms of W/D but no where near as bad as without if done properly and again you must remember that subs work within that narrow spectrum of use. Now regarding Subutex that is what I needed as I had a negative reaction to Naloxone which is one of the properties in Suboxone. Robert spotted this right off the bat and sure enough when I switched over to Subutex I was feeling like dancing that very next day when he got me stabilized. How cool is that?!?!? Hang in there buddy it can be done but the most important thing is to follow recomendations down to the letter. Never take things for granted and go off doing what you feel like or if you feel crummy pop some more subs. That is a big mistake which many people make and if you do that you might as well be doing this alone and whenever you feel like because subs do not work like that. You will be hard pressed to find another med out there that if you follow the schedule you will feel the results so positively so soon. Step out of those boundaries and you might as well go bang you head hard against a wall because that would actually feel better than trying to self adjust dosage to compensate and that only leads to more compensation and more still so you are forever trying to balance and time doses. Keep moving forward and keep posting. I'll be watching you also and cheering you on!

    Henry
    Thanks for giving me strength for a little while longer today. Am doing my 1st day skip on .25. Very lethargic, but still determined. Thanks to all who post with positive direction.

  24. #324
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes View Post
    Thanks for giving me strength for a little while longer today. Am doing my 1st day skip on .25. Very lethargic, but still determined. Thanks to all who post with positive direction.




    Pattycakes....... Proud of you and you should be proud of yourself! You're amazing and your attitude is great! You'll be successful, you have my commitment to stick this out with you! God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  25. #325
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Default Many thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Pattycakes....... Proud of you and you should be proud of yourself! You're amazing and your attitude is great! You'll be successful, you have my commitment to stick this out with you! God bless.
    It is amazing how a few words of encouragement & comfort go such a long way. I really needed to hear that. Will keep you posted. It's so comforting to know I am not in this alone. My family is terrific, but, don't think they really get it. It's almost 6:00pm & I know I will get through this day. I have quite a headache, but, thank goodness the permanent crown put on my tooth yesterday, is easing up the tooth pain some. Thanks to the post on recommendations for the tooth pain. I really appreciate that. So I guess I will be taking .25 tomorrow, then skipping 2 days. That is the correct taper I hope? Thank you again everyone, & no worries.

  26. #326
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes View Post
    It is amazing how a few words of encouragement & comfort go such a long way. I really needed to hear that. Will keep you posted. It's so comforting to know I am not in this alone. My family is terrific, but, don't think they really get it. It's almost 6:00pm & I know I will get through this day. I have quite a headache, but, thank goodness the permanent crown put on my tooth yesterday, is easing up the tooth pain some. Thanks to the post on recommendations for the tooth pain. I really appreciate that. So I guess I will be taking .25 tomorrow, then skipping 2 days. That is the correct taper I hope? Thank you again everyone, & no worries.
    The Devil came down from Georgia & we two-stepped all night long. Thank God for my husband & this board. I took Ambien @ 9:00pm & was up & 11:20pm & that was all she wrote. My heart felt like it was going to pound out of my chest. That started before I went to bed. Assuming it was major anxiety. The top of my head pounded most of the night as well. I bet I burned 3000 calories tossing & turning, turning & tossing. I do't know why everything is turning into lyrics from old songs. I do know that listening to old time rock n roll helps me. I'm just a flowerchild from the hippie days. Really miss those days. Thinking maybe "midlife crisis"? Anyway, I need to check the taper schedule, I think I'm supposed to take a .25 today, then skip two days. I want to do this right. Should I not dose & just jump off since the weekend it coming & I can lay low? Robert, I know this is your expertise, & I'm relying on your experience. Please, anyone with some input? Had to cancel an appt. today, extremely lightheaded from such a fitful night. I still have the willpower & determination. God does not give us more than we can handle. It's the confoundit pain mgmnt. doctors that do! I so hope I can get rid of him on my own. Right now he thinks he owns me. Little does he know. Oh the power of a prescription pad. We need to stand strong & break the cycle, & take back out lives. I'm assuming that rambling is a w/d symptom? I seem to be quite the chatterbox this morning. What's with that? Am going to look up the Thomas Recipe. Looking forward to some insight, anybody?

  27. #327
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    pattycakes ..... there are several of us here that are old hippies from the 60s. Think we would have learned by now. LOL When you're tossing and turning in bed so badly just get up. It's really easier on you to stay up than to do all that tossing all night.

    Yes dose again and then do the two day skip. Today should be easier on you by taking your dose. The purpose of skipping days is allowing for the half life. It's really easier than jumping off cold. Even at .25mg it can be rough stopping abruptly.

    Stick with the plan. You only have a couple more doses to take and you are done! That is amazing! Lots of people are finishing up the taper all at the same time. I love it. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 09-24-2010 at 08:42 AM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  28. #328
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    pattycakes ..... there are several of us here that are old hippies from the 60s. Think we would have learned by now. LOL When you're tossing and turning in bed so badly just get up. It's really easier on you to stay up than to do all that tossing all night.

    Yes dose again and then do the two day skip. Today should be easier on you by taking your dose. The purpose of skipping days is allowing for the half life. It's really easier than jumping off cold. Even at .25mg it can be rough stopping abruptly.

    Stick with the plan. You only have a couple more doses to take and you are done! That is amazing! Lots of people are finishing up the taper all at the same time. I love it. God bless.
    Will do! My husband & I want to extend a heartfelf thankyou! I know it's going to be rough, but I am in it for the long hall. Will keep in touch. Have a great day!

  29. #329
    everdown84 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    everdown ...... We couldn't ask for a better break! I SOOO much like using subutex better than suboxone. No side effects from that nasty naloxone. With sixty 8mg pills of subutex and I'll have you clean buddy. STAY WITH THE SUBUTEX!!!!!

    Stick it out till you score the 26 again. Count on 2-3 days for sure. Stay in touch. I'm excited about this. You're going to freak out at how low a dose I induct you at AFTER. YOU GET TO THE 26!

    You'll have pills left over when this is done. I am jacked up about this. God bless.
    Robert, I induced myself last night, around 4am. I wanted to push myself longer but started to loose my wits about me and kinda got into a panic because i was CLOCK WATCHING. Not smart, slows time by 10. So, I took 1 (2mg piece) every hour for three hours. So I took 6mg. Kinda dissapointed in myself because i REALLY wanted u to walk me threw it. U dont think I did too bad do u? Do u recommend I try 4mg tommorow. The ONLY symptom I have is anxiety and restlessness. I think its just that sober is a whole new feeling for me. I started smack with my mom when I was 13 and have been on that or methadone since, and i am 26 now. Robert, I hope your not disapointed that I couldnt wait, I told u I woulod be honest and I honestly(at the time) could'nt wait. On the other hand I am SO GLAD I re-induced and 4mg bets 16mg anyday. I KNOW with your help (and Henry) I will be clean ASAP and I want to do my part to help others from there. Everyone who posts here is an inspiration for me. WE CAN DO THIS, For greater is HE that is in me(us), than he that is in the world!!!! I know this is not a religious forum, However, I just want to let EVERYONE know that my struggle belongs to Christ! Christ WANTS you to give the struggle to him. Dispite my physical symptoms, I do have a peace in my heart of knowing I have the creator of the universe dwelling inside me,. If you dont already know HIM, PLEASE u owe it to yourself, ask Christ INTO YOUR HEART and the struggle will be his as he will gladly take it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  30. #330
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by everdown84 View Post
    Robert, I induced myself last night, around 4am. I wanted to push myself longer but started to loose my wits about me and kinda got into a panic because i was CLOCK WATCHING. Not smart, slows time by 10. So, I took 1 (2mg piece) every hour for three hours. So I took 6mg. Kinda dissapointed in myself because i REALLY wanted u to walk me threw it. U dont think I did too bad do u? Do u recommend I try 4mg tommorow. The ONLY symptom I have is anxiety and restlessness. I think its just that sober is a whole new feeling for me. I started smack with my mom when I was 13 and have been on that or methadone since, and i am 26 now. Robert, I hope your not disapointed that I couldnt wait, I told u I woulod be honest and I honestly(at the time) could'nt wait. On the other hand I am SO GLAD I re-induced and 4mg bets 16mg anyday. I KNOW with your help (and Henry) I will be clean ASAP and I want to do my part to help others from there. Everyone who posts here is an inspiration for me. WE CAN DO THIS, For greater is HE that is in me(us), than he that is in the world!!!! I know this is not a religious forum, However, I just want to let EVERYONE know that my struggle belongs to Christ! Christ WANTS you to give the struggle to him. Dispite my physical symptoms, I do have a peace in my heart of knowing I have the creator of the universe dwelling inside me,. If you dont already know HIM, PLEASE u owe it to yourself, ask Christ INTO YOUR HEART and the struggle will be his as he will gladly take it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    You didn't even wait one day? Yesterday afternoon you said you were hoping to be ready and would talk with me this afternoon. I assumed that was the plan.

    I guess follow the plan the way it looks the best to you. Sure 6mg is better than 16mg, but I could have done it probably at 2-3mg max, probably less, had we done it the way I had planned.

    Anyonecan make it one day everdown. I'm serious about that. Just follow the taper plan the way it's explained in the sub therapy link dropping 25% every four days. You're feeling anxiety and restlessness because you aren't stable yet. You need to stabilize yourself before you drop more. You should feel perfect after being stabilized. I guess just stay on the dose you're at until you feel right.

    I'm not going to judge you for what you did but you didn't wait to find out what the plan was to get you stable at a REALLY low dose. You posted one day asking how long it would take to reach a 26 on the COWS worksheet. Even Henry explained how we inducted him at 1.25mg. We couldn't have done that with him taking 2mg doses. I expected to hear back from you this afternoon or in a couple days or so that you were ready. I would have started you at 1mg followed by .5mg increments. The link says 1mg-2mg increments to start, and everyone is different, but you didn't wait to find out the plan for you. It's your call but I surely wish you would have taken advantage of the opportunity you had.

    It's not like you're doomed to fail over how you did this. You just didn't give me a chance to get you started at the lowest effective dose and now you're still not stable based on the symptoms you're describing. So just stay at the 6mg you started on as you don't start dropping your dose before you finish the induction. Did you read the link I gave you? The inductioon lasts 4-5 days and you certainly don't reduce by 2mg on the second day while feeling anxiety. It will follow you all the rest of your time on the subs. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 09-24-2010 at 01:42 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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