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new here and really need some help with addiction
  1. #1
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    Exclamation new here and really need some help with addiction

    i've never posted to a board before but i'm in need of some advise, help, anything! my husband has had 2 disc replacements in his neck, has a couple more buldging disc that do get imflammed and cause pain, and he has degenerative disc disease, is in his early 40's. has been taking hydrocodein 10 mg, prescribed for 4 a day so he gets 120 once a month. when he first gets his bottle, he starts out pretty good, then starts taking more than he needs, towards the end of the month, he runs out, tappers off of what he still has, goes through withdrawals, says he's not going to do that again...then, the new bottle comes in and the cycle continues. this has gone on for 3 1/2 years. his moods are all dependant on where he is at in his supply of pills. if he has plenty and takes too much, he's all woo hoo and in a great mood, talkative, likes to spend money, go do things. then when he is towards the end of the bottle he is GROUCHY, hurting, (don't know if that is from real pain or withdrawal pain). after about a year of this i was mainly just watching to see what would happen and would never say anything. i finally got on my big girl britches about 8 months ago and confronted him that he has a problem. from what i have read, i really don't know how much a day is too much for him to take but i know that when he doubles up on his dose, taking 8 a day instead of 4, that he's getting into trouble. i tell him throughout the month when i know he's been taking too much and he'll always have an excuse like it was because he did too much that day and was hurting worse. i have been reading on addictive families and i do know that this viscious cycle is apparent in our family life. we all know when he's had too much, eyes pinpoint, speach is different and all woo hooy and when he's running out and he is very ugly to everyone, don't want to do anything and backs out of plans that were made when he was on too much pills. when he is running out, he won't answer calls from his friends that otherwise, when he's on plenty, he will call and talk talk talk. i have talked to him over and over again about getting help, he don't want to tell dr that he is addicted cuz of them cutting him off his supply. everytime we go through this end of the bottle thing, he says he's going to try not to take any unless he is hurting too bad, or that he'll take what is prescribed but then that all changes. he will do real good for a week then see that he has extra and will start taking 2 x the dose. hope i'm not rambling, but i need some advice please. can he get off narcotics for pain??? suggestions??? i have also felt in the past that when he gets low on his bottle that he may be getting some extra from somewhere else and did confront him about that, he did admit to it and has promised he wouldn't do that anymore. since that promise, did do it one time, again promises not to anymore.

  2. #2
    cherry14 is offline Member
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    My first question is, does he WANT help, and to change this behavior?

    If he does, there are a couple of things he can do. It's very easy when you have a full bottle of 120 pills to think, ok, one or two extra today will be ok, I have plenty left. The problem comes in when you have a week + left before a fill and then you're down to a couple. Who gives him the meds, is it a pain clinic? Do they ever drug test when he gets refills, to see that he doesn't have it in his system when he comes in for new scripts?

    As soon as he fills his prescription, divide it in to four...let him have only a week's worth at a time. If he goes through them too quickly, then he's out only until the start of the next week. You could also give him his four per day in the morning, and then that's it. I don't know if he would be willing to do that, but if you let him know you want to help him stay on schedule he might agree, and after one month that he doesn't run out early and has steady pain relief until he's due, he will hopefully continue with a plan such as this. He does have to be willing to let you control it some, since he cannot do it on his own.

    Best of luck.

  3. #3
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    thank you for repling so fast!
    he says that he knows he has a problem and wants to stop but that is right now when he is running out, when the new bottle comes in then he says, well, i am in constant pain and have to take these. he doesn't really see his behavior as being any different, but the entire family, his family and our family does. he see's a regular dr. who refills the rx. he had originally saw pain management and when they had his dose where thought it should be, they let the reg. dr. keep on refilling it. he did say he would go back to the pain management dr. and that he would tell him that he is taking too much at the beginning of his bottle. he said at first that i could go with him, now he's starting to back out of that deal. in the past, when he has really had the effects of withdrawal and he got a new bottle, he has given it to me to hide from him, i'd fill up his pill box for the week and he would come to me if he needed extra....after about a week of doing that, he gets mad and says he can handle his own meds. he also takes rx for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, takes zoloft for depression and ambien for sleep. right now, he only has 2 pills left and his next bottle should not be in for another week, i do not think he has been this short on pills before so i'm very anxious to see what the next week brings. he has never been drug tested. i do like the idea of giving him 4 every morning, the only thing i worry about with that, is him not taking them all and stock piling them for when he wants to overdo it....like if we are going out of town on the weekend, or....i find that if i go out of town, he has a tendancy to really overdo it because he knows that i will not see him. i can tell by looking at him if he has taken too much and he knows that.

  4. #4
    cherry14 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikie7911 View Post
    thank you for repling so fast!
    he says that he knows he has a problem and wants to stop but that is right now when he is running out, when the new bottle comes in then he says, well, i am in constant pain and have to take these. he doesn't really see his behavior as being any different, but the entire family, his family and our family does. he see's a regular dr. who refills the rx. he had originally saw pain management and when they had his dose where thought it should be, they let the reg. dr. keep on refilling it. he did say he would go back to the pain management dr. and that he would tell him that he is taking too much at the beginning of his bottle. he said at first that i could go with him, now he's starting to back out of that deal. in the past, when he has really had the effects of withdrawal and he got a new bottle, he has given it to me to hide from him, i'd fill up his pill box for the week and he would come to me if he needed extra....after about a week of doing that, he gets mad and says he can handle his own meds. he also takes rx for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, takes zoloft for depression and ambien for sleep. right now, he only has 2 pills left and his next bottle should not be in for another week, i do not think he has been this short on pills before so i'm very anxious to see what the next week brings. he has never been drug tested. i do like the idea of giving him 4 every morning, the only thing i worry about with that, is him not taking them all and stock piling them for when he wants to overdo it....like if we are going out of town on the weekend, or....i find that if i go out of town, he has a tendancy to really overdo it because he knows that i will not see him. i can tell by looking at him if he has taken too much and he knows that.

    I'm sorry you're in such a hard spot.

    I don't know that I'd worry too much about him stockpiling them if you dole them out on the day to day, because that would mean not taking them when they are available, and that certainly doesn't seem to be the issue. He wants them too badly NOT to take what you give to him. If he IS in that much pain, truly, then he needs to take it up with the doctor (if the amount isn't enough to control his pain, but I highly doubt that's actually the problem). If it comes down to giving him them one at a time, by all means go that route....if it's every 6 hours (which 4 a day would be), then that's only how often you give them to him. Giving him a day's worth in the morning at least gives him SOME control about WHEN he takes them. There is certainly the issue of how much tylenol he is getting in a day when he takes too many, have you discussed that with him as well?

    I know it puts YOU in a hard spot, because this means more of a parent role than a spouse role. It changes the dynamic of your relationship, so that is a struggle in and of itself. Your concern is for his safety, though, and he needs to know that's why. What would happen if you threatened to tell the doctor yourself what is going on, which could possibly be enough for him to lose his refills altogether? Would he take you seriously, and would that wake him up a little? Stick to your guns, though...once you have that bottle in your hands, don't give it back to him (unless of course you feel that YOUR own safety is at risk; I don't know if he would have the potential to get violent if you withheld them). It isn't worth it to you if he could possibly harm YOU. I would say, though, that if he's going to act like a child about it, you'll have to treat him like one...like allowance. If he can go ONE month doing it right, he'll see what an incredible difference it makes in the quality of his life. Hopefully that'll be enough for him to learn how to do it right himself.

    I hope you can get through the next week all right. And lay down the law with the next fill. Let me know what happens.

  5. #5
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    thanks so much! i do agree with you that by giving him 4 a day, he can decide when he takes them, i think that i will try that. i usually find all his hiding spots so if he starts to stock pile them, i should know. i hate to be so non trusting and obsessive about it but i feel like our whole life is a phoeny life, like everything we do or how we all get along is dependant on his dosage. i have told him about the tylenol and having too much of that. he is aware of that, but it doesn't stop him from overdoing it. currently, he is down to 1 and 1/2 pill and for the past couple of days has only been taking a 1/2 before he goes to bed to try not to have the w/d symptoms as bad but it's not helping that at all. he stays up all night with the jerking and then finally about 4 am falls asleep. he is at the point in this cycle that we go through that he is mad and trys to turn everything to being my fault. i was telling him yesterday that i really would like for him to control this as it affects our whole family, i explained to him about making promises to the kids when he has enough pills, then backing out of them because whatever he promised to do falls at a time when he is low or out and doesn't feel good. so last night, he was all mad about me telling him that and said we (kids and i) would be happier and better off if he just left. we have been married for over 20 years. i told him that we would be better off if he would get help and get this illness under control. he says that he doesn't want to go through the withdrawals again and is wanting to not take any pills when he gets his new bottle unless he has done too much and is hurting too bad. that is great, but.....he has said that time and time again. i do sortof have a bad attitude and i'm sure he feels that but how many cycles of this same ole thing do i go through??? when i ask him to put hisself in my place and what would he do, he says he would stick through me through whatever i went through. so.....i don't know, i try to be patient and understanding each time we go through this but he knows how he gets to this point and keeps on doing it.

  6. #6
    cherry14 is offline Member
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    Just be strong. I think having the example of the kids is the best thing...

    And....of COURSE he's going to say, "I would stick with you no matter what you were going through." He can't say anything BUT that, because that would mean agreeing with you. It might take threatening to leave to get him to see the light. You (and your children) should ABSOLUTELY NOT have to structure your lives around his medications. Sticking with him through his pain and illness is NOT the same as sticking by him while he f*cks up his regimen time and time again. He has to know the difference. He won't acknowledge it, though.

    I wish you luck to get through the week. YOU know none of it is your fault, and if he DOES try to blame it on you, well, the only thing you DIDN'T do was totally control what he was taking, and you certainly can start, that way there's no blame. You can throw every statement back at him concrete, so don't be afraid to. You don't deserve to live like this and have him drag you down with him. Make sure he knows this.

    Like I said earlier, if he can get through ONE month not running low, it'll be enough. (I say this because I've had similar problems in the past with taking too many of my meds too early, then running out, going through w/d until my refills were due...SAME THING). It's a HARD pattern to change, but going just ONE month without the added, self-induced suffering is SO worth it. I know it's hard...no one is saying it isn't, even though it *sounds* like a no-brainer. But, it CAN be done.

    I'll look forward to knowing how things go. Be strong!

  7. #7
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Default mikie

    Cherry is more tolerant I think than I am. You definitely are more tolerant than I am. Not saying that is bad. I just see so much manipulation and general addict thinking and actions taking place here. You are trying so hard and yet continue to get slapped across the face by the one you are trying so hard to help. You're very patient Mikie.

    Like cherry said there is NO way he would say anything except that he would always stick with you even if you repeatedly screwed up over and over for however long it takes. He would be setting himself up if he said anything else. Realize that you will not be able to carry on this type of a disscussion with him right now. He just isn't rational enough especially when the subject of conversation is his addiction problem. The addiction is totally directing his thoughts.

    I don't agree totally with continuing the hydros rather than trying to figure a way to get him to stop this. And that is fine. But for right now the next best thing that would at least be a step in the right direction is doing something that would help enable him to face up to the fact that he is indeed powerless over these RX pills. Giving him the medication for a specific small amount of time and allowing him to dispense it to himself as directed is giving him just enough rope to either hang himself or else prove himself worthy of more trust if he is successful. I agree that this could be the most effective way available right now to do this. Not that this would be my first choice but I think you are going in a positive direction by doing this.

    Someone who is where your husband is at with these RX pills needs to see things that they themself make the determination about. If you or I explain anything that is a threat to him continuing to do exactly as he is doing (and feels justified doing) he will battle us to the end. That will be true almost 100% of the time. Otherwise he wouldn't be addicted to the pills. He feels that his situation, that his pain, that his circumstances are unique from others who have had to live in pain. We all know that is nonsense but it is totally justified in his mind. I too have been in the exact same place as him and felt the exact same way. These feelings are nothing new.

    The business of him saying that your family would be better off if he just left is such a crock. Talk about the "poor me" approach to obtaining all the pity he can get. Such childishness is so obvious to the rest of us but the addict actually believes that this kind of nonsense works on people and that they will feel threatened by these words. I mean "REALLY" ... where is he going to go??? Who else besides you would tolerate all this for even the weekend?

    I agree with cherry that if he could make it a month being successful dispensing the pills to himself that would be a huge step. If he does this successfully then I am over-reacting with some of my comments. I don't think I am but I would love to be proven wrong. That would mean that he is in a much better place mentally than what I think he probably is. I sincerely hope I am wrong. Even when I might be a little sarcastic I still have only the best of intentions. Hope you see that to be the case.

    In my active addiction I was indeed a master of manipulation. I think most addicts try to be good at it but most continue to say and do things that in reality make themselves appear very foolish and misguided to everyone but themself. They are usually successful only in manipulating those people like a significant other that might be blinded by emotion. Everyone else sees clearly through their game. It doesn't mean the addict is a bad person, just means they are an addict. As cherry said sticking with him through his pain and illness is not the same as what you are subjecting yourself to. You should not have to be a martyr.

    Allowing him to emotionally abuse you while you continue to stick with him through his addictive selfish behavior is not good for you and it really isn't helping him. It's similar to when our kids mess up as young adults. We want to hold their hand and protect them from the realities of life as an adult. But if we don't allow them to experience some of the pain that sometimes is a real part of life we are robbing them of a valuable lesson they need to learn for survival's sake. You can't protect him from feeling the pain of addiction without stunting his growth in recovery. It's literally impossible even with the very best of intentions, even with the most well thought out plans, even with only his best interest in mind. Sometimes we have to allow those we love the most to fall on their face so they will learn to walk better from this point forward.

    I really hope this turns around for your husband. He has a family that obviously cares a lot about him. You are trying to be supportive of him even in your posts here. And this place is where a spouse will generally unload the issues that are bothering them. He is very fortunate. Just make an honest attempt to be realistic about what all is happening. Do that for your benefit and for his. He needs you to be supportive of him but he also needs you to help him where he can't and refuses to help himself. I will include your family in my prayers. Good luck and God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 09-12-2008 at 04:00 AM.

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    cherry14 is offline Member
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    You make some very good points, Robert. And, perhaps, I am too forgiving of the situation...it may be because I have done the exact same things her husband has in the past. It wasn't for lack of needing the meds, or not WANTING to fix it, either...it was just too easy, especially when I WAS in pain, to take more than I should when I had so many at a time. (It's hard to admit!). I also know a LOT about pain management and meds in general. I had both the genuine need for the meds, and a genuine desire to fix the problem, so maybe I'm assuming that he does, too? I was able to get back on track on my own, which was not easy. Eventually I want off of these things all together. Right now, it isn't feasible, but I remain hopeful.

    I think we can certainly all agree, Mikie, like we said....that you DON'T have ot put up with this. If you don't want to deal with handing out his meds, etc, by all means, you don't have to. YOU can walk away, too, and it's not "leaving him in his time of need." It's doing what's right for YOU. I also wouldn't be afraid to tell his doctor what's going on, either. That would be a check for him, if there was a REAL threat he wouldn't get his meds (especially if he TRULY needs them for pain).

    If I'm getting too involved or saying too much, let me know. For some reason, your post hit so close to home for me, that I really want to be able to help, if I can.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by cherry14 View Post
    You make some very good points, Robert. And, perhaps, I am too forgiving of the situation...it may be because I have done the exact same things her husband has in the past. It wasn't for lack of needing the meds, or not WANTING to fix it, either...it was just too easy, especially when I WAS in pain, to take more than I should when I had so many at a time. (It's hard to admit!). I also know a LOT about pain management and meds in general. I had both the genuine need for the meds, and a genuine desire to fix the problem, so maybe I'm assuming that he does, too? I was able to get back on track on my own, which was not easy. Eventually I want off of these things all together. Right now, it isn't feasible, but I remain hopeful.

    I think we can certainly all agree, Mikie, like we said....that you DON'T have ot put up with this. If you don't want to deal with handing out his meds, etc, by all means, you don't have to. YOU can walk away, too, and it's not "leaving him in his time of need." It's doing what's right for YOU. I also wouldn't be afraid to tell his doctor what's going on, either. That would be a check for him, if there was a REAL threat he wouldn't get his meds (especially if he TRULY needs them for pain).

    If I'm getting too involved or saying too much, let me know. For some reason, your post hit so close to home for me, that I really want to be able to help, if I can.


    Cherry ... I think your posts have been good both here and other places on the forum. I just think you are very compassionate when maybe being a little more hardcore could be better AT TIMES. I don't think everyone is as focused as you have been in controlling the meds and getting your life on track. I moderate on three forums ... two of them autoimmune disease forums. I know my meds and illnesses fairly well too. And I respect people who do know meds and illnesses. I understand completely where you are coming from believe me.

    I too can relate in this instance. I did so many of the same things as he did just like you. Like I said I was THE master of manipulation. I too had legitimate pain issues. I have RA, Raynauds Phenomenon, have had 5 knee operations, three other ortho surgeries, deg disc disease, the list goes on ... so many painful and debilitating conditions. But I had to learn to be responsible or ruin my life and everyone's who counted on me. I was taking 30 30mg oxy a day plus 15-20mg of xanax and 6-8mg of klonopin a day, 20-25 soma a day, the ongoing list would KILL most people. I thought it was funny that I could do more than anyone else and still have the drs give me an open script pad more or less. I had so many people buffaloed. It's terribly embarrassing when I look back at all the things I did to myself and others.

    I was finally brought to sanity and got my life straightened out. For me it took Jesus Christ. Not everyone wants to hear about that option. But it worked for me. In the process I think I have gained some clarity about addicts. I know what scumbags they can be as I have been one too. I've been a real scumbag. Granted addicts are ill and don't mean to do the things they do. They do need compassion. But if we don't help them get going in the right direction the majority die on the streets every day. I just don't want that to happen to any more of them than is absolutely necessary. That is why I am here so much. This is a ministry to me. I take it very seriously. I would rather make someone mad at me than allow another addict to die if it can be prevented. Sometimes I do probably get a little overbearing. But I think that is possibly what it takes with some people. We have to love them, but slap some sense into their heads at the same time. It's okay I think to do almost anything to help someone if we honestly do it out of love. I'm sure I don't have all the answers. It's just that this is truly life or death and for many who make it here to this forum there isn't a lot of time left for errors. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 09-12-2008 at 11:13 AM.

  10. #10
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    cherrie and robert

    ya'll do not know how much i appreciate both of ya'lls replies. i need to hear them all and i'll never be offended in any way! i now wish that i had posted years ago instead of just reading on this board.

    right now, he has only one pill left and he has it broken into two doses in his daily pill box. new bottle shouldn't come in until next week and right now, he says he's not gonna open it that i can keep it and if he needs any, he'll ask me for that. of course, he has said that before, same story, different month. his usual course of events, is he starts out saying that, then after a few days, he says i have to take something, i'm hurting, i'm just gonna take two a day, then after a few days, he'll say i need to take 4 a day, then he'll get mad and say, i can handle my own pills, then takes over the bottle, starts taking more, until he's out. the story just keeps on going over and over. i mentioned in my first post that i had caught him with pills that are not his....when i first starting confronting him about doing that, he started slacking off of that, finding new hiding places, i'd find them, etc. then.....about 3 months ago, our teenage son found them. that was a true eye opener for me, i threw a fit and told him what kind of mother am i to have my children in this situation. i told him that if he did that again, i was leaving. also told him that i would tell his parents (who did know that he is always taking too much of his own but didn't want to even consider that he would buy some elsewhere). he didn't buy anymore extras since then...until last week, i went out of town on business and when i came back, i knew he was running low and shouldn't be so woo hoo at any time, then i started suspecting and starting digging around and found one left of howmany ever he had gotten. when i confronted him on this, his explanation was that he only got 5 and when i asked why, his answer was because he knew that he was going to run out. sooooo.......i did tell his father yesterday who later on last night told his mother. i don't know when, but i'm sure he'll find out that i've told them and he is going to be pissed at me. oh well!!! they would like to do an intervention and will be talking to him soon on all this. of course, i know his answer will be....i have it under control, i've stopped taking everything, mind your own business, etc.

    he has always been an addictive type person with everything he does, in his late 20's and early 30's, he drank alot. when he gets into any kind of hobby, it's not just getting into it a little, it's the whole nine yards. then eventually, it wears off and he quits it completely.

    right now, he is just real quiet and grouchy, not sleeping, etc. when he complains about not sleeping, i do not baby him at all, i say, well, maybe another week and you can sleep. i did let him know that he knows how this happens and he's been through it before. as i mentioned, night before last, he said he was going to leave, i told him that if that's what he needs to do then go ahead, when he said we would all be happier without him here, i just told him that we only want him to get "better".

    we are a christian family, were both raised in church, raise our kids in church and i do know that God is watching over me and my kids. robert, you are really doing a great ministry by doing this!

    i am a little bit worried about when he finds out that i've told his parents. but i really did think that they needed to know. someone besides myself can start worring about him and his illness.

    i have thought about leaving ALOT over these past months and the things that keep me from leaving and this may sound nuts, but i HATE change, even though it may be a good change, i hate moving, changing jobs, etc. and....he is the kind of person that can't be alone and i think that he would drive me nuts with promising me all sorts of stuff that he would know i need to hear, like getting help, etc. and not follow through on it. to this day, he still doesn't think that he needs help, he knows he has a problem, but says he can quit anything he wants to. everywhere i've read, i don't think that a person can do that without some sort of therapy. he can not do in patient therapy because he would loose his job, but i think that he needs to be in an outpatient program. he will not hear of that right now.

    he did make a call to set up an appt for pain management again, at first he said that i could go with him as long as i didn't mention anything about him getting pills elsewhere.....i told him i'd think about that, then a few days ago he said that he wanted to go by himself. i told him that i could call them anyways and talk to them myself.

    let me know what ya'll think about all this, PLEASE!!!

  11. #11
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Default mikie

    I am happy that you are a Christian. At least I know you will get some emotional and spiritual relief there. God can fix anything. But even God won't intervene if your husband is totally lying his a$$ off. And you know that is what he is doing. Your dilemna about not wanting change is really not that uncommon. Change scares most people. For some reason most people would rather have a VERY bad habit than make a change. That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever but that is the way it is.

    I will only mention this one time as it really isn't my business mikie. Please don't take it the wrong way. But as a parent my first responsibility would be to my children in a situation like this. Subjecting them to finding their parent's drugs is child abuse. There is no way I would allow my children to find my spouse's pills that he/she bought on the street.I would not only let them go if they chose to live like this but I would pack their bags for them and put them on the porch. Then I would tell them to hand over the drugs and get their act together TODAY or get out of my house. No arguing about it but no way your children should have to deal with that. You know that.

    This is totally out of control. Each time you post there is more to this story. You know the answer. You even know the problem. You don't like change. Nothing will change EVER until you insist on it. Don't listen to his idle threats about leaving. Big deal if he goes. How long do you think he would be gone before he would realize you won't be smoked by him any longer and he would be begging to come back home? Don't play right into his hand. He has you totally under control and you AND the kids are suffering because of it.

    I'm not saying to feed him to the wolves. I am suggesting that you give him the help he really needs which is "tough love". I don't believe anything else is going to have any significant effect on him period. God bless.

    PS He can get off the RX pain meds with suboxone if he is afraid of w/d symptoms. That isn't even a valid reason to not stop anymore. If he wants off there is an answer I guarantee you.

  12. #12
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    robert

    you are so right, i do know the answer to what i really need to do...in my heart, i do not think he is going to change. and you are definetly right, my kids do come first! if i was trying to help someone in my situation, i would tell them to LEAVE just because of my child finding those. i don't know why i'm so scarred to do that.

    he has always been a control freak and has always tried to control me until recently when i put on my big girl panties. i really have come a long way just in the past year from what i used to take.

    he is having w/d now, with the shakes and not sleeping an all, and if i told him today that i was leaving or for him to leave, he would say, "i'm off my pills" and yes, he is right now....but....what about next week when this cycle starts all over. i really do wish that he would leave. mail reason is that i am self employed and my office is located on our property. kinof hard for me to move in that type of situation. the next few weeks i should be able to tell if he is really serious "this time". and....to see how he reacts when he knows that i have "told on him".

  13. #13
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikie7911 View Post
    robert

    you are so right, i do know the answer to what i really need to do...in my heart, i do not think he is going to change. and you are definetly right, my kids do come first! if i was trying to help someone in my situation, i would tell them to LEAVE just because of my child finding those. i don't know why i'm so scarred to do that.

    he has always been a control freak and has always tried to control me until recently when i put on my big girl panties. i really have come a long way just in the past year from what i used to take.

    he is having w/d now, with the shakes and not sleeping an all, and if i told him today that i was leaving or for him to leave, he would say, "i'm off my pills" and yes, he is right now....but....what about next week when this cycle starts all over. i really do wish that he would leave. mail reason is that i am self employed and my office is located on our property. kinof hard for me to move in that type of situation. the next few weeks i should be able to tell if he is really serious "this time". and....to see how he reacts when he knows that i have "told on him".

    You are sounding lots better with that post. At least you are making sense now. If we can help you know we are here. I will watch for your posts. I know LOST will say the same thing I just said too.

    Stand your ground. I promise you that is the only hope you have that he will change and clean up. It's a really tough place for you to be. But you know you have to take care of children before someone who is just acting like a child. God bless.

  14. #14
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    robert

    i will keep ya'll posted and any advise in the meantime, please feel free to send it my way.

  15. #15
    cherry14 is offline Member
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    Robert, thank you for your comments. Usually I am TOO hardcore, so my compassion here is not like me, haha. I should say, more specifically, on forums I can be VERY straight forward and blunt (if you've read my posts, you'll have seen that!). I hope I didn't come across, by saying that I have a lot of knowledge and background about this type of thing, that I was implying that you didn't...it seemed like that's how you may have taken it, and that wasn't at ALL what I meant. From the posts of yours I've read, you obviously have a LOT of knowledge on the subject, and I think it's done a lot for many that you come here regularly and share it. I'm a noob (not to forums in general, but to this one!), so I never know how people are going to take what I say. Being a nurse, when I started in pain management for myself, I learned as much as I possibly could, since I didn't want to go in to it blindly (and in turn have been a much better resource for my colleagues, and advocate for my patients)...and even after doing that, I found myself developing bad habits very quickly...with God's grace they only affected myself. It's an easy thing to fall in to, and not so easy to break. I feel for all you've been through, and I am both proud of you and happy for you that you were able to break the cycle. What a wonderful resource you've turned that into, invaluable in fact. No offense taken from this end, either, on what it was that turned you around...everyone has their own motivation. It's always good to hear proof of the Power. I used some of it myself to correct my diversion off the right path.

    Mikie, the more I read of your story, the more difficult it seems to me. The things that I suggested may not be enough, hearing more. The anecdote about your son broke my heart, for him and for you. Your DH definitely needs some tougher love, I think. I'm not sure how telling his parents will go over, since I'm not sure how much *control* that has over the way he does things. You could mention the fact that if you find pills obtained by any other means than his own prescriptions is illegal, and that you can/will bring them to the police if you find them again (would he believe that you would do that?). Same with pain management, just because you don't go to the appointment with him, doesn't mean you don't have access to the doctors and nurses there, and you could tell him that you will let them know his history, and that that's why he didn't have you accompany him to his appointment. He would never even get off the ground with a pain doc if they were aware of those things. If you do threaten ANYTHING, no matter how big or small, you HAVE to follow through on it, though. The one time you don't will be enough for him to believe you never will.

    I understand about fearing the change that would be necessary to get away from this situation, but you have to look at the BIG picture. Going through it NOW will be worth being away from it, if it's never going to change, or worse, escalate. Being that your son has already been WAY too close to the situation, it's something you need to seriously consider doing (you can ask him to leave as well, you've got the fact about your business being home-based on your side for that one). I've had to go through some very painful changes in my life (not related to my health/meds) to get to where I am today, and while I thought at the time that I couldn't bear it, I made it. When there's no other choice, you find a way to cope, and looking back, it will be both easier than you think, and a relief to have it done with. If he doesn't change his behavior, your life and your life with him will not only NEVER be better than it is right now, it will likely continue to get worse. It's time for him to put up or shut up, and not put you or your children through this any longer. Obviously while I am talking like leaving is your ONLY option, it is still POSSIBLE in my opinion that he could change what he's doing. I'm not sure any more how realistic it is, though. It's time to shake it up and have something open his eyes.

    Sorry for the long reply, and I hope it is not too harsh. Like I said earlier, from the first time I read your post it touched me more than most do. I'll keep you in my prayers that you find resolution, whatever it may be. You SOUND stronger now than you did in your first post, and I think that's a good sign. Keep that strength up, and you can handle whatever comes of this.

  16. #16
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    cherry ... I didn't take offense to anything you said AT ALL. Like I said I like your posts. You are usually right on the money. And my opinion is by no means the last one. We are probably very much alike in that I don't play games with people either. This is too serious. So don't worry about me in any way. ALL IS GOOD!!!


    Mikie ... I agree with everything cherry said on this post. I have to cut this short as I am in the middle of a hurricane here in HOuston. Can't believe I have power still when over a million homes in the area are without. I have to go clean up some water coming inside.

    Bye for now ladies. God bless you as He has me.

  17. #17
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    cherry and robert

    one of the reasons that i went ahead and told his parents about the getting pills elsewhere is because after my son found those, i had told him if he ever did that again, i would go to them...them knowing this will make him know that i'm not the only one that knows this and they are a very close family and the last thing he would want to do to them is disappoint them in any way. so when he finds out that i've told them, i will indeed let him know that i told him that was my next step with this and meant it.

    as far as how things have been going this weekend, he is down to 1/2 a pill, he took one this morning and i'm assuming he'll take the other 1/2 in the morning. last night he was up with the w/d shaking and figiting until about 4 am, then slept til 11, then he went back later on and took about an hour nap. now over the past week, things have been very quiet here between us, me being that i'm just still pissed that he bought some more and ran out of his own way earlier than he ever has, and him being that he's been going through the w/d. so today, after his nap, he told me that he thinks that he's finally getting over the w/d. i just said well, that's good. i am not the most supporting person in the world during this time but i am still mad and just sick and tired of this cycle. he asked me what was wrong w/ me and i told him exactly that. he proceeds to let me know how unsupporting i am when he is trying to quit....i proceed to let him know that what he is doing is illegal, blah blah blah....he tells me that this is the first time he has gotten completely off of them, which i guess it is, and that this is the longest he's gone through the w/d, because usually, he gets a new bottle in after just a couple of days of him being down to just a few pills left. i told him that i do love him and do want him to get better but....that i'm just tired of going through this all the time, over and over again. and i told him to just prove it to me that he isn't going to start back, i let him know that i can't just be the supportive person he would like me to be after what all i have put up with for so long. so.....now we're back to not speaking, oh well. i said my peace and it felt good. he is still talking about leaving and we'll see, if he does, he does.

  18. #18
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    Hi mikie
    Robert wont be on for a few days,he is in texas and they have no power right now, but he will be back soon.

  19. #19
    Lost83 is offline Senior Member
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    Default I found you....

    I was wondering where you went and how you were doing, I didn't realize you had another thread. So I read all and I am so sorry you have to go through this, I know it SUCKS!! Perhaps one of the hardest things in life to do is watch the person you love deteriorate. The lies and sneaking around are enough to drive you crazy, Robert is right, you have to stand your ground and it sounds like you are. I know it's hard but good for you and your family.

    My husband had all the same behavior patterns as yours and I did throw him out and would do it again in a heartbeat if my child ever stumbled upon his drugs. The threats are BS and another manipulation tactic, poor me, poor me.

    I think it's good that you told his parent's. Obviously he isn't getting the point from you so maybe his parent's can talk some sense into him and it gives you a break, you now have a team to work with to try and get him to see the light. Addiction does affect the entire family and he is lucky to still have family to support him. I know my husband probably wouldn't be where he is now without his support system including NA.

    If he is truly putting forth an effort and you will know when he is than a hug here or an I love you there would be nice so he knows you will support him as long as he is willing to help himself. Until then just stand your ground as you are now. You can only do so much before you start driving yourself crazy and as many wise people on this forum have told me, I am no good for my son, my husband or myself if I am not in the right state of mind.

    I think it may take packing his stuff to make him realize how serious you are and that his lies and manipulation will not be tolerated. Make it clear that you will not allow him to put your family most importantly your children in this situation and that they do not need to see their father going through withdrawals once a month because he isn't using his meds properly. Do not enable him, buying pills on the street is unacceptable and risky business. That would be the last straw for me, if he continues to purchase drugs on the street, I would have to throw him out and hope that would be the reality check that he needs and if not, unfortunately he is the only one that can make that decision, tough love isn't easy but sounds like that might be your only option.


    Lost

  20. #20
    Lost83 is offline Senior Member
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    Mikie,

    I found this on another forum, I wish I saw this 2 months ago, it's a good read and I am learning that it is so true.

    If you love me let me fall all by myself. Don't try to spread a net out to catch me. Don't throw a pillow under my ass to cushion the pain so I don't have to feel it. Don’t stand in the place I am going to land so that you can break the fall (allowing yourself to get hurt instead of me) ... Let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me, let me walk the valley alone all by myself, let me reach the bottom of the pit ... trust that there is a bottom there somewhere even if you can't see it. The sooner you stop saving me from myself, stop rescuing me, trying to fix my broken-ness, trying to understand me to a fault, enabling me ... The sooner you allow me to feel the loss and consequences, the burden of my addiction on my shoulders and not yours ... the sooner I will arrive ... and on time ... just right where I need to be ... me, alone, all by myself in the rubble of the lifestyle I lead ... resist the urge to pull me out because that will only put me back at square one ... If I am allowed to stay at the bottom and live there for awhile ... I am free to get sick of it on my own, free to begin to want out, free to look for a way out, and free to plan how I will climb back up to the top. In the beginning as I start to climb out .. I just might slide back down, but don't worry I might have to hit bottom a couple more times before I make it out safe and sound ... Don't you see ?? Don't you know ?? You can't do this for me ... I have to do it for myself, but if you are always breaking the fall how am I ever suppose to feel the pain that is part of the driving force to want to get well. It is my burden to carry, not yours ... I know you love me and that you mean well and a lot of what you do is because you don't know what to do and you act from your heart not from knowledge of what is best for me ... but if you truly love me let me go my own way, make my own choices be they bad or good ... don't clip my wings before I can learn to fly ... Nudge me out of your safety net ... trust the process and pray for me ... that one day I will not only fly, but maybe even soar. ---Passion

  21. #21
    sisterwin2 is offline Senior Member
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    WOW>........................

    that is all I can really say.


    Ty for the post


    Sister

  22. #22
    hkyjon33 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost83 View Post
    Mikie,

    I found this on another forum, I wish I saw this 2 months ago, it's a good read and I am learning that it is so true.

    If you love me let me fall all by myself. Don't try to spread a net out to catch me. Don't throw a pillow under my ass to cushion the pain so I don't have to feel it. Don’t stand in the place I am going to land so that you can break the fall (allowing yourself to get hurt instead of me) ... Let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me, let me walk the valley alone all by myself, let me reach the bottom of the pit ... trust that there is a bottom there somewhere even if you can't see it. The sooner you stop saving me from myself, stop rescuing me, trying to fix my broken-ness, trying to understand me to a fault, enabling me ... The sooner you allow me to feel the loss and consequences, the burden of my addiction on my shoulders and not yours ... the sooner I will arrive ... and on time ... just right where I need to be ... me, alone, all by myself in the rubble of the lifestyle I lead ... resist the urge to pull me out because that will only put me back at square one ... If I am allowed to stay at the bottom and live there for awhile ... I am free to get sick of it on my own, free to begin to want out, free to look for a way out, and free to plan how I will climb back up to the top. In the beginning as I start to climb out .. I just might slide back down, but don't worry I might have to hit bottom a couple more times before I make it out safe and sound ... Don't you see ?? Don't you know ?? You can't do this for me ... I have to do it for myself, but if you are always breaking the fall how am I ever suppose to feel the pain that is part of the driving force to want to get well. It is my burden to carry, not yours ... I know you love me and that you mean well and a lot of what you do is because you don't know what to do and you act from your heart not from knowledge of what is best for me ... but if you truly love me let me go my own way, make my own choices be they bad or good ... don't clip my wings before I can learn to fly ... Nudge me out of your safety net ... trust the process and pray for me ... that one day I will not only fly, but maybe even soar. ---Passion

    OMG that was the most beautiful yet brutally true post i have every heard. It is soooo true...my wife tried everything to get me out but it pushed me further in. like sis said WOW is all i can say...god bless you,this read will get me through today =)

  23. #23
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    lost:

    i'm doing ok right now, he has been totally out of pills for a few days and his mind does seem a little clearer. the true test will come when he gets that new bottle in how he handles them, i'd love for him to just never open them, but.....we'll see. if he opens them and can take them as he is suppose to, i could live with that, but......we'll see. i hate to sound so negative but i've been throught this a time or two already. you are so right, i do now have a team and if they need to step in, they are ready to do that. and he will know how serious i am when he finds out they are involved. i would love for him to straighen up all on his own and just not have to rely on these narcotics at all. they just mess w/ your head.

    that poem is GREAT!!!

    thanks so much!

    how are you doing today???

  24. #24
    Lost83 is offline Senior Member
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    I am doing well, thanks for asking. I am glad to hear that he hasn't had any pills for a few days. Is he going through wd's? If not I'd be concerned that he still is taking something. Otherwise, good for him. Not trying to make assumptions I just know how manipulative they can be. You are lucky to have his parents to help when and if the time comes for some sort of intervention. You definitely need all the support you can get!

    My hubby started his court ordered program this week. He wasn't thrilled about the meeting on Monday but came home last night with a whole new attitude about it. He said he really enjoyed it. I am glad. He really likes his NA meetings so he was upset that he had to give up going 4 nights a week to go to this program but all things considered, he got off easy. If he successfully completes this program, he won't have any charges on his record. He seems to be serious about his recovery. He slipped a few times in the beginning and he still has the urge to use but he calls his sponsor and other NA buddies when he starts to feel like that.

    I am learning to accept him as an addict, it's hard, and we have a lot of trust issues and communication issues that we are actively working on. Ultimately I hope this ends up being a bump in the road and our relationship grows stronger from this experience. I know he wants to live and I can already see the man I fell in love with emerging from this funk he got himself in. It's happening slowly but I am willing to wait as long as he is willing to fight!

  25. #25
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    Lost:

    He has been going through w/d for about the past week and a half now. not sleeping at night, falls asleep then starts jumping and wakes up. he usually finally falls asleep about 2 or 3 in the am. i can always tell when he takes too much by his pupils, they get real small and his voice is different, like he has a cold or something, which hasn't been going on. his new bottle should come in the end of this week and he's still saying that he's not going to open them, "unless he really has to for pain", but when i asked him today how his pain was he said it was fine. so, we'll see about that. and i really wouldn't have a problem with him just taking them as prescribed, but, he's never been able to do that for any length of time.

    i'm glad that thinks are looking up for ya'll, sounds like things are on the right track and that is great! i read your post about him being depressed and that others say that is normal at the time out he is, so that sounds like it should get better!

    hope you have a great day today!

  26. #26
    Lost83 is offline Senior Member
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    Thank you!

    Hopefully if he gets through the worst of the wd's he won't want to take them and maybe he can start to look for alternative ways to deal with his pain. Wishful thinking, I know but anything is possible. I wish your family all the luck and hope your hubby realizes how lucky he is to have you to stand by him through thick and thin!

  27. #27
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    hey lost, cherry and robert!

    well, the new bottle should be coming in today, up until this point, he had agreed that i would manage the bottle when it comes in, now, last night, he said that he wants to keep it in his safe, which i do have access to, and not open it or take any "unless he really needs it". his pain has been fine to deal with not on anything except aleve since he's pretty much over the withdrawal and he's been easier to live with, more like his old self. he's had more energy, has been in a great mood, etc. i told him that i think that i need to keep the bottle and if he needs any, i'll give them to him. he said that he didn't need a babysitter and he said by him having them he will know if he does have a problem if he reverts to his old habits. what do ya'll think about that??? i'm torn between insisting that i keep them and letting him keep them. my thinking is that if he insist on keeping them then i will make it clear to him that i'm not going through another cycle of taking them when he needs them, then taking just two a day, then taking 4 a day, then taking two at a time, then running out, going throught w/d and me having to "wonder" if he's getting more elsewhere, and all that goes with it. and...if he is to revert to his old familiar cycle, then he will need to leave and come back when he is off of them completely and has sought help to deal with this.

    let me know what ya'll think.

  28. #28
    Lost83 is offline Senior Member
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    When I go to NA with my husband they say one too many and a thousand is never enough. I have found that to be so true with addicts. If he is an addict, I would not hesitate to tell him he needs to stop, especially if he is already through the withdrawl's why start the cycle again? Honestly if he went a week or so with nothing, and said he felt fine, then are med's really necessary in the first place? Why get the pills if he doesn't really need them? Again, it's just my opinion but if the aleve work, why take the other?

  29. #29
    mikie7911 is offline Member
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    they come in the mail, as a matter of fact, they just got here. he did call his dr. the other day and let them know that he was out and had been taking too many and was going through w/d, wanted to know what else he could do for sleep, they had told him wait another week and if the sleep didn't improve to let them know, they also asked him if he wanted them to cancel the order and he said no.....said he wanted to have them in case he "hurt himself", when he does too much, is when his pain gets bad.....so, i'm gonna lay down the law again as i have done everyday this past week and half and let him know what his alternatives are if he starts this back up again.

    by the way, how is your day???

  30. #30
    cherry14 is offline Member
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    Hm mikie...I am not sure what to say. He does in fact need a *babysitter.* That's been proven. What did you say when he said that?

    I still think the way to go now is to insist that you keep them with you, and if he DOES have enough pain that he needs them, he can ask for one. Plain and simple. If he wants to have it in his possession, tell him to take it (and himself) somewhere else entirely, as you do not want to watch him do the same thing for another month. He'll whine and say you have no faith in him, to which you can say no, you don't. Tell him if he's serious about only taking them if his pain is REALLY bad, then, he should have no problem with you keeping them...he needs to prove it. It's not like he hasn't failed in doing it himself in the past, and don't be afraid to point that out. He will get defensive and play to your guilt, don't let him. You can always again suggest that you'll give him a few at a time, but no more than a couple days worth, and he can't get any more until it's been the right amount of time. If he wants the bottle, count them out a weeks' worth, say, and put only those ones in the bottle, and hand him that. Tell him you'll refill another 30 in a week. That will keep him at least partially on track, and he may have to go a few days without if he takes too many, but he'll still have some left. Lock up the rest where he can't find them.

    I don't know if any of this is helpful, but those would be my suggestions. Best of luck!

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