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help methadone is rotting my teeth
I am currently on 40mg of methadone and have been for 20 years. I never put much credence in the theory that methadone causes severe tooth problems. I kept up with my dental cleanings and necessary repairs. My teeth were always "high maintenance" and I saw no real difference. It just took longer for my problems to show themselves. I lost my first tooth about 10 years ago. It was the result of a botched root canal by a previous dentist. Never let a dentist do a root canal. They don't have the necessary skills. Have an endodontist do any root canals. Five years later I lost a second tooth. I believe this was the start of my methadone tooth damage problems. Luckily, both teeth were the last molars in the back, so it wasn't much of a problem. I decided to get implants and went for a consultation last week. I've already lost too much bone tissue, so they will have to do a sinus lift first and pack the area with bony tissue from sea coral. Then 6 months of healing when my body should attach bone to the coral tissue. But I'm worried I won't produce the necessary bone because of the methadone. They also mentioned how dry my mouth was. I didn't tell them about taking methadone. But I also take Xanax and Hyzaar, both of which also cause dryness. It took 20 years, but I finally realize the damage methadone can cause to your teeth (and possibly bone).
Five years ago I decided to switch to bupe. But I couldn't find a single person who had successfully made the switch from meth to bupe. And the horror stories I would read on the net about severe precipitated withdrawals scared me away. Has anyone here made the switch? The doctor will give me bupe without the antagonist. Can I slowly switch over by mixing meth and bupe? There's no way I'll sit through 2 or 3 days of withdrawals before starting the bupe. Can bupe without the antagonist precipitate methadone withdrawals?
Thanks for reading my ramble.
this aggravates me....
First thing I want to state here is that I am in no way attacking you for your opinion...we are all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours, I just do not agree with it. With that said I would like to give mine.....
Originally Posted by dinosmom
I get so aggravated when I hear people say this "we didnt take care of our teeth for years and now we are clean and are seeing the damage we did". I became addicted to Percocet, which led to use of other narcotics...vicodin, fentanyl patches etc.. and eventually oxycontin (that was the ultimate and what did me in. At the end only oxycontin would work for me....the day before detox I chewed 22 perc 5's and felt nothing, except nauseous from all the tylenol. I was chewin two 80's in the morning, two in the afternoon and two around dinner....more if I had them). While on these meds I was full of energy, cleaning everything in sight and took EXTRA good care of my teeth...I was so methodical with my skin, nails and teeth it was crazy! Anyhow, I went to a detox clinic which put me on Methadone and Ive been on ever since. Although I wasn't obsessive about my teeth on methadone I still took very good care of them and went for my cleanings etc.. I always had beautiful teeth and was complimented all of the time. Since being on Methadone I have only one back tooth left and my front ones are rotting now too. The rotting starts right at the gum line and seems to come from within as well. My councilor at the clinic recently told me there was a new study that found that methadone impairs the bodies ability to absorb calcium and vitamin D. Its a pretty recent study. She also told me the info someone else had posted about the dry mouth and craving of sweets on methadone. I have also gained a lot of weight on methadone. I get so frustrated when I hear people say "we didnt take care of our teeth for years while we were using and didnt notice until we were clean..." I think I would of noticed my teeth falling out, using or not. Again, I am not attacking you for your opinion...your entitled to feel however you wish; but it is my sincere opinion that methadone does in fact cause a persons teeth to rot, crave sweets and gain weight. With that said, the reason I do not switch off of methadone??.....to me its worth the trade. Methadone works for me and I am, to be honest here, afraid to mess with something that is working. I was in a really bad place before and I would rather lose my left arm than go back there again
There teeth rotting argument has been on these boards since I first started coming here. It keeps popping up. Methadone causes dry mouth. Dry mouth causes cavities. You need to take extra care of your teeth while on methadone. I was on methadone for over 30 years and did loose several of mine. I also gained weight. I had always had a sweet tooth so I attribute the weight gain to my not running around like a crazy maniac seeking my doc which was heroin.
In answer to beachside's question about switching from methadone to bupe, I did it after 33 years on methadone. For most of those years I was on 80 mgs. but had dropped to 25 about 3 years before the switch. (It's necessary to be down to 30 or less before switching over). I was terrified about the 72 hours with nothing but really, it wasn't as bad as expected (this after 10 years on IV heroin and, as I said, 33 on methadone).... I took my last dose of methadone at 9 a.m. on a Friday, was fine all that day of course, slept that night normally. I was actually fine on Saturday, just a little lazy. Sat. night I took a klonopin and slept through the night. It wasn't until midday Sunday that I started feeling crummy. I fell asleep Sunday night at about midnight with the aid of Klonopin and woke up at 3 a.m. in full blown withdrawal. This was some 66 hours after my final dosing at the clinic. My sub appt. was for 9 a.m. Monday. By some miracle, as sick as I felt, 30 minutes after taking the sub, I was normal. So the 72 hours was really more like 6 hours of full blown w/d's and 1/2 a day of moderate w/d. Don't forget that methadone has a long half life so when they say stay off 72 hours, most of that time you'll be fine. Don't let fear stop you.
jim, hey there,
you cannot mix methadone and buprenorphine, noooooo way. you will get real sick. the way it works, you need your receptors to be empty, coz if they have something like methadone in them, the bupe binds even better to your receptors, so they boot anything off and stick in, tight.
thats how you would get precipitated withdrawls, guarantee it. i did that.
thats why you need to go a couple of days without, before the switch. and you need to be on a 30mg or lower, 20 would be ideal, dose before you switch also.
so its nothing at all to do with the antagonist you mention, that "naloxone" is only put in there to stop people like me, injecting the stuff.
its the bupe itself that causes the prec wd, not the naloxone.
anyway, regardless of my precipitated withdrawls, i made the switch, and am happily on a very low dose, gettin on with my life.
oh and by the way, my teeth are completely buggared, from all the years of abuse. in fact my front one broke off last night, forcing me to do something about it.
hope that answers your question, yes you can switch.
no you cant mix methadone and suboxone, without gettin very sick, very fast, trust me it aint nice.
all the best
just my thoughts and info you might find helpful
Yes I do agree with this statement here, subutex (bruprenorphine) and suboxone (brup + naloxone) when used after a recent methadone dosage will cause severe withdrawal symptons. As another poster here stated if brup is used while you have been off the meth or heroin for atleast 48 hours should pose little to no discomfort. But I have had the luxury of stocking up on alot of suboxone and subutex as I live in Australia. I get takeaway doses for upto 5 days of the week 2 of these days i must take my dose at the chemist. I would stock up on my takeaways and would sometimes use heroin.
no you cant mix methadone and suboxone, without gettin very sick, very fast, trust me it aint nice.
What i discovered is if you do have to switch to brup from methadone and could not really hack the withdrawal symptoms even 24 hours since your last dose, you can actually use the suboxone or subutex to relieve the withdrawal symptoms of meth withdrawals. Now this would probably not work for people who take above 80ml's of meth in a day. I was on about 40 mls at the time was about to taper my dose of meth which would be long as stated by most people here but I know the side effects of meth and the really hectic withdrawals (I've kicked it cold turkey, failed.. got back on the heroin) and started using the heroin and methadone together.. Now this time when I decided to quit the meth and heroin the withdrawal symptoms were wayy to much 18 hours after my last dose (I was also using about a gram of heroin a day) basically I was feeling the heaviest withdrawals i've ever come across in my life. So i cracked and gave in... popped about 4mg's of suboxone.. withdrawals were nowhere near as bad as what i had been feeling before, then about 15 minutes later as the subuxone started kicking in BANG feeling like hell again.. i knew it was the brup binding to my opiod receptors flushing out my very last bit of heroin and meth.. in desperation I popped about another 4 mg's of suboxone and hey I didn't feel as bad as I did about 30 minutes ago.. so I proceeded to take another 4 mg's and yep I was feeling fine.. was feeling the dirty sweats but most of the pains were gone away.. few hot cold flushes but nowhere near as bad as how i felt 2 - 3 hours ago before when I had nothing in my system.. the next day i proceeded to take another 4mg's in the morning and I was pretty much fine for the whole day and have ever since got a prescription from my doctor once more and been using 4mg's of suboxone..
I am no medical professional but I feel I have a deep understanding of how these drugs interact with our bodies. I have even asked my doctor why it was so that after taking a larger amount of suboxone had made my body feel better given that it is NOT meant to be used that way.. basically my doctor had said it all depends on your dose before you use. Professionals tell people to wait atleast 72 hours before taking the subutex or suboxone because it is the most effective. It binds to the receptors immediately without much work, hence you would feel normal as if you had your normal dose of meth or heroin. BUT if meth or heroin is not completely out of your system / opiod receptors the subutex / suboxone has a much harder time to bind to your receptors because it has to kick out whatever is remaining of the meth/heroin.
In my scenario my first 4mg of subs was sending my body into wd's because its kicking out the meth and heroin sending me into a state where there was no methadone or heroin in my system for 72 hours. So what happened was the 4mgs were definitely not enough to make me feel the full effects of the brup, all it did was kick out what was left over from my meth and heroin.
But if you have a high enough dose of bruprenorphine after a recent meth dose the drug will eventually kick out all the other opiates in your system and bruprenorphine will eventually work its magic.
Now I know many people in the states might not have the leisure to do this as it is extremely costly to obtain your subs (it costs me $30 dollars a week for a dosage as high as I want so $35 u.s a week). But it saved me from having to take 3 days off work which I couldn't afford to.
Well it worked for me.. so please don't take this risk unless you're prepared to as I will not be responsible for any mishaps or accidents which may occur. I just wanted to share my knowledge and my experience of the switch to meth/heroin to subs in a non conventional manner.
Thanks for hearing me out guys and girls. Hope you all the best as I've been a long time reader and a first time poster of this forum. You guys have surely helped me a lot during times where I had no one else to turn to. So please keep doing what your doing. I believe alot of medical practitioners in the states just want to take your money hope you stay on for their own back pocket.
Docs never tell you any crucial information that we should know. I highly believe methadone should be used only for the worst of opiate addictions / chronic pain. I've seen people making the biggest regrets in their lives the moment they took up the methadone.. I've cold turkeyed methadone and I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy to even feel the way I did for those 4 - 5 horrendous weeks. Subutex is great. Suboxone is even better. The naloxone in suboxone actually helps deter the brain from thinking about using.
As for people injecting the drug suboxone.. Don't even think about it.. your doing more damage than you could ever imagine to your body.. my mate just had his veins collapsed from injecting the subutex.. as for suboxone your adding naloxone into the concoction and you've got a recipe for a ride down in hell.. injecting the suboxone (which has naloxone) causes immedate withdrawals because the naloxone hits the receptors quicker than the bruprenorphine does which causes the immediate withdrawals. Orally its fine as it takes the stomach alot longer to absorb the naloxone which allows the bruprenorphine to bind to your receptors first. Im sure alot of you know, but for the people who don't do abit of research because going against the rules. Once you lose a vein its more than likely gone forever. Amputation is your only choice from there on.
Much respect to ya all. Dezz.
I've been on Methodone for 9 years.
Iv noticed ppl saying they've been on methodone for 4 years &they've had no problems with there teeth. I've now been on the done for 9 years &I didnt have any problems after just 4yrs either. My teeth were always healthy up until a year ago. So 8 yrs of being on the done finally began to stuff my teeth up. So I dont really think 4 or 5 yrs on methodone will do much to your teeth but giv it a few more years & they'll start rotting away one by one. Sometimes 2by 2. Some ppl dont have very healthy teeth to begin with so it may take just a few years to start affecting there teeth.I see a dentist all the time &there is nothing they can do to stop the rotting except putting porcelain caps over every tooth which costs about $1500 per tooth which I hav now starting doing.l am getting a tooth capped every month until they are all capped then the methodone cant do anything to my teeth anymore. Alot of ppl say its not the methodone that rotts the teeth but it obviously is because everyone on done will eventually loose there teeth. Most ppl that have been on it for under 5yrs dosnt really know cos it hasnt been long enough.But there are a few ppl that suffer earlier. Its a good idea to drink alot of water to help stop dry mouth. Its horrible llsing
in reply to.. This aggrevates me!
I'd just like to add that I am now 30 yrs old & have been on methodone since I was 21 after just 3yrs of using heroin so your idea that ppl use for 20 yrs and dont care for there teeth is just wrong. Stay on methodone for another 5yrs then come back and comment because after 4yrs of being on methodone my teeth were still all healthy and I had no problems at all until a further 4yrs later. It aggrevates me when uneducated ppl leave comments with nothing to back them up :-(
4yrs is not long enough to speak from experience.Come back in another 4yrs&then comment. My teeth were good and healthy after just 4yrs of methodone too. It took a further 4yrs to even have any affect at all. I started methodone at 21yrs old after just 3yrs of using heroine &I had perfect teeth back then. But 8yrs after being on methodone took its affect&even though I still have all of my teeth some of them have chipped easily. I see a dentist regularly &theres nothing they can do to stop this except to put porcelain caps on my teeth. Give it another 4yrs before u try and give advice on this matter!
Originally Posted by dinosmom
Yes thats why most people at the clinic have dentures or no teeth at all they just start falling out like piano keys eeeeeeeeekkkkk scary I am on methadone as well for about the same time as you and i am scared
my 2 and a half cents :)
HI all, I am basically new here, i joined several years ago but have not really posted at all since joining. But, perhaps I can add my own thoughts here from my personal experience as well.
I have been on methadone Maintenance Therapy for almost 10 years now. I was using heroin for 2 years and decided to use methadone to get clean. HA! Oh it worked, I'm off heroin, but cant get off the methadone, lol. BUT to stay on topic, i believe you are BOTH right. for many people on methadone because of drug abuse, our teeth and basic oral hygeine were not always our first priority when waking in the morning. Now, that being said, i did spend two years on heroin, and did have some tooth decay that popped up during that time, and i noticed after getting clean. However, over the years my teeth have literally ROTTED away to nothing. I now have full dentures, top and bottom.
My dentist honestly could not understand why for some time. He knew of all about my drug history, etc, i never hid any of it from him or any doctor (after i got clean of course). It was his opinion after several years went by of being clean and my teeth were just falling apart that it was NOT due to 2 years worth of drug abuse. After about 6 years on methadone and seeing the same dentist he finally suggested that it may very well be that methadone does rot your teeth no matter what the official literature says. Naturally, I agree. But what I find most interesting is that my primary doctor also agrees, and had told me of studies done in other countries that have found people on methadone for pain relief or any med condition other than drug abuse to have had a large majority of those in the study begin to experience tooth decay and loss. However the level of dental issues varied from patient to patient, as one would expect, but overall they were able to conclude that methadone itself can cause tooth decay by way of softening the enamel and causing deterioration of the soft pulp within the tooth leading to breakage and/ or cavities and abscess, etc. --- OR so i was TOLD. I did not personally read this study so this is coming from a second hand source, just so were clear.
Sorry to ramble on, but this is an issue that has affected my life greatly, so i do tend to take it quite seriously when discussing it.
In closing, I have asked every doctor, nurse and councelor at the methadone clinic about this, and not one of them has ever admitted that methadone does promote tooth decay- hmm, shocker there. Then again I suppose it would not be in the best interest of their business to say so.
I guess you can take this post for whatever it's worth, lol, I know my dentist sure took me for what i was worth in the end ...
Hey Lindsey, I lost all my teeth and am now wearing dentures after being on Methadone for 8 yrs. 150. mg peer day for pain. I was not a drug user before. I am no Saint believe me. Drugs just werent my choice. I was switched from Oxycontin in one day to Methadone. Then went to the Fentenal Patch 100mg. through pain management. I cold turkey from methadone. HORRIBLE detox. My friends say I was a mess for 6 months so please be careful. Good luck. Joanne
Originally Posted by EmpatheticSoul
Actually, I am one of the people who has had teeth problems. My teeth are decaying one by one and I am only 28 years old, I have been on Methadone for over five years and YES, I DO SEE MY DENTIST EVERY SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS. They have given root canals, removed all four wisdom teeth from decay, and pulled a couple. I also brush my teeth twice a day.
Hi! Eight years ago I was in a car accident that changed my life forever. My son & I had spent the day shopping for back to school clothes. He was getting ready to start his Senior year of high school. We were stopped at a red light when I looked up in my rear view mirror and saw the car coming right at us. I quickly looked around to see if I could move out of the way. There was no where to go. There was a car in front of us and one on each side. I quickly put my car in park and both feet on the brake pad so we would not be pushed into the car in front of us. I started praying to God to please protect my son. The woman that hit us was talking on her cell phone.
After the accident I started checking my son over to make sure he was ok. I also wanted to make sure that the woman that hit us was alright too. She got out of her car and all she could say was the light was green. My son told her the light was red and there were two cars stopped in front of you. I realize at the time the woman that hit us was probably in shock. She never asked us if we were alright or say that she was sorry.
While waiting for the police to come my legs started feeling like they were going to sleep. I called my husband to come and get us. When he got the the scene of the accident I asked him to take me to the emergency room. The force of being rear-ended can make your spinal cord snap like a rubber band. I also had a ruptured disc.
After two failed back surgeries my father-in-law was a research scientist at Duke University. He made an appointment for me with several of the Duke doctors. I was in constant pain and nothing seemed like it was helping. Prior to this accident I had never used drugs. So I was very hesitant about using any narcotic. My pain management doctor wanted to put me on methadone. She explained all the pros and cons of the drugs. Nothing was said about dry mouth or tooth decay at the time . She said it was the least addictive of all the opioids and very effective for pain relief.
After being a methadone for 5 years now I have a mouth full of rotten teeth. I have always taken excellent care of my teeth too. I brush 3 times a day and floss. Plus I used mouth wash. After my two back surgeries was never able to return to work. Because I was under 50 when the accident happened it took me three years to get social security disability. We were living on one income with 2 children at home and one off at college. We were financially strapped.
I cry everyday because we do not have the money for me to even get dentures and have my teeth pulled. All because of one careless person talking on her cell phone. It is difficult losing one income and paying for all the extra medical bills that go along with a spinal cord injury. I keep praying for a miracle.