Trying to stabilize on subutex for detox - help please Robert !

[laurie_lee]

Hi there. This is my first post. I'm in the UK. I was hoping for some help as I'm not sure I'm properly stabilized on subutex. I am detoxing from a 400mg/day oral morphine (Oramorph) habit. I readyour post, Robert325, about inducting. My doctor gave me a standard 16mg subutex taper plan and told me to wait until I was in early wihdrawals. After reading your advice robert I went against his advice and waited a full 42 hours since last dose of morphine. I used clonidine and diazepam to reduce the symptoms during that period but I was sure that waiting almost two whole days was sufficient for the short acting morphine. so I took as follows (sublingual):

Friday
5.45pm - 2mg subutex
8.00pm - 2mg subutex

I then had severe withdrawals at about 10pm that night. On a number of occasions I've withdrawn from morphine for ~3 days and only had moderately bad withdrawals so the severity of my withdrawals after taking sub took me by surprise. I was so worried that I had precipitated withdrawals even though I had waited so long. I didnt want to take any more subutex for fear of worsening the withdrawal but my friend insisted I took some more so I had:

11.30pm - 2mg subutex and 2x 20mg temazepam

The withdrawals decreased afer that. I felt ok in the morning and all right all day. I didnt take much sub. I took:

Saturday
1.00pm - 2mg
7.30pm - 2mg
During the night I had uncomfortable withdrawal so took
3am - 2.5mg

So now it's 12.20pm on Sunday. I feel ok again! It seems like 6mg/day hasn't been enough? I don't know why I withdrew overnight. I'm not sure whether this is because the subutex has been precipitating withdrawals, or I have been too cautious with my doses in fear of that.

Robert, I'm not sure what I should take today. One 6mg slice? 8mg? 2 x 4mg? I know this induction is the most important part. I really want to get through this detox. I really just want to do it right. I don't think I'm properly stabilized because of the withdrawals last night. Maybe I've been splitting doses too small and not taking enough? Let me know what you think
Best regards. I appreciate your expertise on this subject!!
laurie xx

[rick56]

Hi laurie,

I'm a new member and I'm definitely not Robert who is a prince to more than he knows. I can tell you how they did it at a clinic I went to and nobody had any
problems. Their aim was to start you on as little as possible also so here goes.
Over a 24 hour period they add up how much you needed to take. Just like you did. Then they take that number and divide it into 2 or 3 doses over the next 24hr. To start They did the same thing depending on the persons drug usage. Usually 1 or 2 mg. to start then an hour later they would ask you if you still felt like you were
in withdrawls. if yes 1 or 2 mg more would be given to you until the withdrawls were
taken care of. Being a long time 750mg oxy user I used 12 mg over the 24 hour period. It took 8mg the first 2hours to get me over my withdrawls. 4,2,2 then I needed 2 mg twice over the remaining 22 hours for a total of 12mg. the second day they divided 12 mg into 3 doses of 4 mg over the next 24 hours. The next day
I went to 4 mg every 12 hours. for 2 days then 2 days of 2 every 12 hours.
I can honestly tell you I never suffered once. antsy, not sleeping much, little appetite, little sweat but that was about all. I was with about ten others and most did better then me. They ate and slept.
I have also just started back on subs. because while I truly believe that is a great
way to start I left using 4mg a day and had no idea what i was in for. Anyone who say mind over body is full of it. I had no knowledge of subs before I went in and
didn't know what to expect. They led me to believe I was over it. Well not totally but no one mentioned horrible withdrawals would end when ever. After 3 days
of horrible WD I started using again until I saw my doc and got some subs. When I went to see him he said come back in 24 hours and don't take anything else. Well it was so easy the first time { because they weaned me down to 30mg every 12 hours I only had to wait till withdraws started 12 hours} I decided to party one last time and somehow a longlasting oxycontin got in the mix. I was in pretty good WD for about 7 hours when he gave me my first 4mg. WoW now I am in WD for real
I told him to give me more please It must not be enough. I was in the precipated WD. It took a full 24hours to come out of them. The worst.
Dam I do ramble
Really I just wanted to let you know you are doing great and not in precipatating withdrawls. And to give you some idea of what dosage to take as I saw Robert
hadn't answered you yet. Roberts plan for coming off has given me hope as I
have wanted to quit for years. I was clean for 11 years before this last episode.
It only started with 1 pill here I am 9 years later.

Good Luck

Rick

Ps. I'm going to follow Roberts schedule and plan to take my time and get off in about 2 months.