[mindy99]

Robert,

Hey!! OMG, what drama. I even brought my husband. He couldnt go into the room though. However, before the dr. saw me, he did speake with my husband, because the nurses told the dr that i was not happy at all with the suboxone and wanted subutex.

Anyway, my husband was really nice to him, but the dr. started being an asshole YES!!!! Im so happy he showed his colors.

So, dr walks in hands me literature about suboxone and different doctors. He absolutley did not believe me when i told him how i felt. He said, well you can take drugs on it. I said, ok, test me right now!! Blood urine whatever, im clean.

He was not a happy dr. I asked him if he didnt want to treat me than thats ok, i would find a new dr. He said, when did i say i didnt want to treat you? WELL, you did just had me literature about different doctors in my area, kinda gave me a clue...... Long story short. I told him, i did not want anymore suboxone. I would take subutex or clonidine to stop all together, period. So, he said tell me what you want, 15-30 tabs for two weeks. I said 30, of course, im hoping to never have to see his sorry ass face again. So, i have 30 subutex. Lets start a plan man!!

See if i have enough to not go back.

BTW, i had to sign a form saying it was against his medical judgement to switch me.

So lets say tomorrow i start at 10. Then the next day i could try 8, or maybe i can just go to 8 right away. I took 4 of the subutex in the car as soon as we left and i was like YES..............this is what it is suppose to be like. I knew it!!!

I will have to look for a taper chart. I have seen them around.

Just wanted to share the good news.

xoxo

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by mindy99

Robert,

Hey!! OMG, what drama. I even brought my husband. He couldnt go into the room though. However, before the dr. saw me, he did speake with my husband, because the nurses told the dr that i was not happy at all with the suboxone and wanted subutex.

Anyway, my husband was really nice to him, but the dr. started being an asshole YES!!!! Im so happy he showed his colors.

So, dr walks in hands me literature about suboxone and different doctors. He absolutley did not believe me when i told him how i felt. He said, well you can take drugs on it. I said, ok, test me right now!! Blood urine whatever, im clean.

He was not a happy dr. I asked him if he didnt want to treat me than thats ok, i would find a new dr. He said, when did i say i didnt want to treat you? WELL, you did just had me literature about different doctors in my area, kinda gave me a clue...... Long story short. I told him, i did not want anymore suboxone. I would take subutex or clonidine to stop all together, period. So, he said tell me what you want, 15-30 tabs for two weeks. I said 30, of course, im hoping to never have to see his sorry ass face again. So, i have 30 subutex. Lets start a plan man!!

See if i have enough to not go back.

BTW, i had to sign a form saying it was against his medical judgement to switch me.

So lets say tomorrow i start at 10. Then the next day i could try 8, or maybe i can just go to 8 right away. I took 4 of the subutex in the car as soon as we left and i was like YES..............this is what it is suppose to be like. I knew it!!!

I will have to look for a taper chart. I have seen them around.

Just wanted to share the good news.

xoxo

I can't believe a dr finally gives in. That's good news! Now some other people here can also see what I'm talking about.

There is NO reason for you to need a bunch of the subutex. You've trusted me this far go along now. I want you to take 10mg today and tomorrow. That should stabilize you finally. Then we'll start a taper down the next day.

I will be SHOCKED if you don't feel great doing this now. Let me know. God bless.

[MidnightDevil]

Yeah I also bet you were reacting to the naxalone in the suboxone tablets. subutex should do just fine

Follow Robert's plan nicely, you'll do just fine.

[tired2]

Mindy thats great you were able too get your meds changed ....What did you have to tell that JERK? I'm going to try to call mine just not sure what to tell him. Robert told me that I should switch so I'm ready to call my doctor today.
Take Care

[MidnightDevil]

I don't know what have been told but far as I've read, it was causing a bad reaction to the naxalone in suboxone. That should do it, but maybe someone will be more specific

[mindy99]

Midnight, i was. When i left the dr. office, i took 4mg's of the subutex and was like, YES, this is what i remember from the first day. I knew it. Im not crazy. And, i actually worked on my belts today. First day since i started this nightmare, to end a nightmare, lol.

Tired, i think i pretty much said what i told him. I remembered something robert said, to call his bluff.

I basically said,

A. Suboxone makes me miserable, unmotivated, terrible headache, depressed, whatever its doing to you.

B. He mentioned that i could take opiates with the subutex and maybe thats why it my suboxone wasnt working!! I layed out both my arms and said TEST ME!!! Draw blood, urine, whatever you need to do to see that im clean.

C. He said he had never heard of someone having a problem with it. He said "did you read it on the internet" real snotty, and i said actually, yes, there are many people out there who have problems with the N in suboxone.

D. I point blank told him, I will not continue on the suboxone. If you want to let me try the subutex, (even for two days), that is what i would like to do. If not, then i want clonodine, or whatever i need to get off everything. I said if you do not want to treat me thats fine.

E. I also gave him a half full bottle of Suboxone, told him, im not going to use it so here, take it. Showing him, i didnt sell it, or that i was scaming him or whatever. Wish i got my $$ back, but i know thats impossible.

F. I also mentioned he could drug test me when i came back in two weeks.

Just tell it like it is. If your dr wont help you, find one who will.

BTW: I bought my meds in his office. It was $400 for 30 subutex tabs. Kinda surprised me it cost so much. But, im not using my insurance because i dont want this drug on my record.

Cant wait to go to sleep and wake up tomorrow and take 4mg!!!!!!!!!!! See how i feel on my first REAL day of treatment.

Hope that helps!!

BTW: I am not one of those in your face people, i cry all the time, and my husband was SHOCKED that i actually got him to write the script. They have a very BAD talk before he saw me. My husband actually told him not to speak to him like a junkie because the dr is so rude. The dr is like a "boot camp" doctor.

xoxo

[mindy99]

I loved it when he walked into the room with a pamplet about suboxone and handed it to me. I was informed to read it and the side effects from the drug and also he said there was information there for me to find another dr.

Then later when i mentioned if you dont want to treat me, thats ok.

He slammed me back with "when did i say i didnt want to treat you" or he said "i never said i didnt want to treat you".

haha

[mindy99]

Just talk to him/her matter of fact.

Also, you have to have to be super committed in your mind, that you are leaving with the medicine you want. You will not accept the suboxone anymore, PERIOD.

Also, be more than helpful with suggesting drug testing, and bringing in a half full bottle of meds, dosent hurt either.

ok, im done.

[lilly555]

Originally Posted by mindy99

Just talk to him/her matter of fact.

Also, you have to have to be super committed in your mind, that you are leaving with the medicine you want. You will not accept the suboxone anymore, PERIOD.

Also, be more than helpful with suggesting drug testing, and bringing in a half full bottle of meds, dosent hurt either.

ok, im done.

hello all on this thread.....
had to jump in here and tell you all i too had a bad reaction to the suboxone and was working w/ Robert.....Robert suggested i switch to Subutex and it was day and night difference for me!....Mostly i noticed i had that heart racing sensation, headaches, rolling anxiety on the suboxone....when i mentiioned this to my Sub doc, he dismissed me and said he had never heard this before...at the 2nd visit i made a huge stink about these symptoms and even the nurse said my blood pressure and pulse was a bit higher than normal....plus i think i scared my doctor about that heart pounding sensation not going away and any repercussions for him if he didn't heed what i was saying; and the truth was that i wasn't faking it, i really could barely stand it and told him i was just going to give up on the suboxone.....so then he switched me to the Subutex.........
and i've read on this site w/ many other people having this adverse reaction to this Naloxone, so it's really worth the repeated attempts to get your doctor to listen to you and switch if you need it.....sounds like it's helping you Mindy...i know this is a daily fight, but hang in there and stay focused and you can do it......and just stick w/ Roberts taper and you will be done in no time....i am so glad i did.....he is a walking blessing and i can never say enough about how much he helped me....I Love You Robert!
peace, Lilly

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by lilly555

hello all on this thread.....
had to jump in here and tell you all i too had a bad reaction to the suboxone and was working w/ Robert.....Robert suggested i switch to Subutex and it was day and night difference for me!....Mostly i noticed i had that heart racing sensation, headaches, rolling anxiety on the suboxone....when i mentiioned this to my Sub doc, he dismissed me and said he had never heard this before...at the 2nd visit i made a huge stink about these symptoms and even the nurse said my blood pressure and pulse was a bit higher than normal....plus i think i scared my doctor about that heart pounding sensation not going away and any repercussions for him if he didn't heed what i was saying; and the truth was that i wasn't faking it, i really could barely stand it and told him i was just going to give up on the suboxone.....so then he switched me to the Subutex.........
and i've read on this site w/ many other people having this adverse reaction to this Naloxone, so it's really worth the repeated attempts to get your doctor to listen to you and switch if you need it.....sounds like it's helping you Mindy...i know this is a daily fight, but hang in there and stay focused and you can do it......and just stick w/ Roberts taper and you will be done in no time....i am so glad i did.....he is a walking blessing and i can never say enough about how much he helped me....I Love You Robert!
peace, Lilly

We are so proud of you lilly..you worked hard to get where your at.
good job girl...
Talk to you later, Melinda

[lilly555]

hey Melinda.....
so nice to hear from you....you know how much i admire and value you.....from the beginning, i think my 2nd or 3rd post, i remarked on your heartfelt manner w/ so many in crisis and i still feel this way about you.....i check in from time to time and see all the good you and Robert are doing and i am always humbled......can't believe i'm off all those Opiates...after a lifetime....
have too admit tho' i'm really struggling w/ the cigs....know it seems minor compared to the other fight, but it is still my new focus and conviction....i hate that i started smoking 10 years ago and at the age of 42; so dumb...what's up w/ that, i always ask myself....but i'll keep you updated on my progress....
peace, lilly

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by lilly555

hey Melinda.....
so nice to hear from you....you know how much i admire and value you.....from the beginning, i think my 2nd or 3rd post, i remarked on your heartfelt manner w/ so many in crisis and i still feel this way about you.....i check in from time to time and see all the good you and Robert are doing and i am always humbled......can't believe i'm off all those Opiates...after a lifetime....
have too admit tho' i'm really struggling w/ the cigs....know it seems minor compared to the other fight, but it is still my new focus and conviction....i hate that i started smoking 10 years ago and at the age of 42; so dumb...what's up w/ that, i always ask myself....but i'll keep you updated on my progress....
peace, lilly

hi Lilly
so how is your house going and the job hunting...and the dating sceene...
you haven't been keeping me updated...LOL
Talk to yo later,Melinda

[mindy99]

Took 4mg when i woke up and basically i didnt get anything from it.

Is my system too messed up from all the different meds to continue?

Could i just start over somehow?

Dont know where to go from here.

xoxo

[mindy99]

I dont know whats wrong with me. I complain and complain that i cant take the suboxone, which i couldnt, but im still not happy.

The 4mg was either too much or too little cause i didnt get to that calm place.

So, i took a 10mg percocet. I just didnt care. Knew i probably wouldnt feel it, but, i just am not in a good place. Whatever that is anymore.

From day one, i didnt have a good start.

What should i do???

[Robert_325]

I wish you would have given me a few minutes to reply before taking percocet. I'm not sure I totally understand why you did that.

You were taking 12-16mg of suboxone before. I didn't tell you that 4mg of subutex would replace that much suboxone. You didn't take enough. Now you're taking percs again? Do you have additional percs there at your house?

Subutex isn't a miracle that you can jump off 12mg plus of suboxone with 4mg of subutex and expect it to work. So what is your plan now? Are you going to start taking percs again after going through all this to obtain the subutex?

[mindy99]

Robert,

I got it down to 10mg with the suboxone. So i took the 4mg with the thoughts of today would be 8mg.

After taking the 4, i was not happy still. I mean, i didnt have the side effects. I was so bummed that i didnt feel well i just said screw it, and took a perc, for my own mental well being.

I guess yesterday when the dr said well maybe the suboxone wasnt working because i was using with it. I was like TEST ME. I dont know, and then i gave all my roxys to my husband to hold, something hit a cord and i thought hey why not take one. I wont feel it, but, i have been through hell these last two weeks.

I will need to take pain pills when i am done with this. I just will. I did it for ten years with no problems. 12 years ago, i had problem with pills because i was a stripper and i used them to work and deal. So i had 3 little relapses over the course of two years, till i got it.

I was only using 40mg hydro a day though, and maybe 80mg of hydro the other time. This time i went CRAZY for 5 months and got hooked on the roxis. I had never had them before. My new assistant had them.

Anyway, ten years ago was a long time, so i forgot. Well, i did get up to ten of those 30mg pills. Thats a lot of oxy, and i couldnt just taper this time. Take me forever. And every morning i woke up terrible WD.

Knew i had to stop it. Get myself clean enough so i didnt need to take them everyday and use them like i use to. BTW, the roxis are 15mg, so if i break it in half it will be 7.5, i will have A LOT of control over those. Plus, im just going to get some plain 10mg pills.

I had no pain for two years, so i was clean for those years. Then i developed cronic pain from lyme disease and endometriosis. So, i had a pain dr. who i got 30-35 pills from a month. I was totally fine on that. Never ran out early, never needed more. I was fine. I had learned my leason before.

GETTING BACK TO TREATMENT after my pill history sorry about that, just thought it might show you how i got here and how i can control them.

So, around 1pm i took another 2mg and i FELT that, it was too good! It felt like a percocet!! I didnt like that feeling and it scared me. I was going to take the next 2mg around 8pm and call it a day.

I had such a bad induction, followed by feeling horrible for 8 days on the suboxone, i just wonder if my brain is just too messed up right now to do what i should have done in the first place. I just wish there was a way i could start over. Today is day ten of taking sub.

When i first started, i was so happy the first morning when i woke up and didint feel WD. Well i have had that for the last week and now im not appreciating where i am at i guess. And then the subutex makes me feel too good like i should have been in the beginning.

If i took NOTHING, I would go into WD. If i started the sub over at that point at a lower dose, could i just finish out a taper from there? I want to get clean so i can start over and not mess up again. Which from my history, shows that i can do.

What do you think? If you have even read this long ass post.

I just keep wondering, what if i got the right medicine the first day, and then followed a low tapper. I would be pretty great right now.

What should i do???

xoxo

i appreciate your time more than words can say. BTW

[Robert_325]

I really would NOT be doing what you're doing if I intended on using RX opiates for chronic pain forever when I finished coming off the subs.

If you have pain that is going to be too bad to deal with for life then I would have the dr switch me to an extended release medication with something instant release for breakthrough pain. I would want to hold it down as low as possible but why do all this suboxone/subutex hassle and then go right back to the pills? You aren't even planning on staying clean. I'm not judging you I'm just confused.

There are some people who are not candidates for buprenorphine therapy for whatever reason. I have to ask you why do you want to do this? If you just want to lower your dose so you aren't so physically dependent why don't you just lower your dose? I am being honest, not trying to be a wise guy. I have no idea why you're doing this.

You could not just stop using suboxone, go into w/d and re-induce with subutex at a lower dose. You would have to be coming off an instant release pain med rather than buprenorphine. I honestly don't know what to tell you to do. You've got to decide this one as it's your recovery and your medication. God bless.
edication. God bless.

[mindy99]

I was taking a stupid amount of oxy. Just a party that lasted too long.

Couldnt tapper off it, because, frankly, i couldnt affoard it.

Also, tired of doing what i was doing. Was not fun anymore, never want to do it again.

So, my option was to quit the oxy, get on sub, eventually tapper off sub. Then i could return to my life before i turned into an idiot. I just want my life back as it was before i went mental. I made some VERY poor choices over the last 5 months, again, just want my life back.

Its pretty simple. Hey maybe i wont have strong enough pain when im done with the tapper.

BTW, how good is the pain relief from the sub???? Im freaking out because my period is coming and im terrified of being stuck in bed at 3am not being able to sleep because im in obscene pain.

Did that make sense to you?? I was so happy for so many years before the last 5 months.

So, i just want to do whats best for my body. I will follow your advice. I have not problem, JUST using the sub and tappering like anyone else.

I just dont get how to use the subutex?? I feel great on 1-2mg but i know its not supposed to be used that way. Once a day, maybe twice. I took 4mg with the intention of taking 4 more 12 hours later.

When you told me i didnt take enough, i took 2mg more, and THATS when i felt the best. But it only lasted about 3 hours. Which scares me because i dont want to use it like a pain pill. I want out of that cycle. Thats the whole point. Change my behavior which i developed over the last 5 months. If i could take sub like i take my zoloft, pop in my mouth in the morning and get on with my day, THAT would be ideal. THAT is what i really need.

I just feel super good on a low dose. But, that wont work, because i cant break up an 8mg and take it 4 times a day. That is bad behavior, which im trying to change.

I do appreciate everything you have done for me.

Like i said, i dont know how bad this whole process has been since day one.

xoxo

[Robert_325]

If you look back what I suggested was to take 10mg and see how you do. Had you said you were having symptoms I would have said to go to 12mg.

You were on 12mg at least of suboxone. That is the exact same med as the subutex except for the naloxone. Don't you remember why we were trying to switch the two??? So you need the same amount of buprenorphine from the subutex as you were getting from the suboxone.

You dropped from a high dose to 6mg. That is what the problem is. You reduced by at least 50% of your total daily dose. That is entirely too much to reduce by at one time. You need to take more subutex .. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Just get a single-edged razor blade and slice it. It's not hard to do at all.

[mindy99]

how should I take it? 6mg in morning and 6mg at night? It's so weird that 1 or 2mg makes me feel so good. How many days at 12? I'm gonna do it!! Determined now. I had a fleeting feeling of true happiness tonight. The type of feeling u get when u don't take meds for a long time.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by mindy99

how should I take it? 6mg in morning and 6mg at night? It's so weird that 1 or 2mg makes me feel so good. How many days at 12? I'm gonna do it!! Determined now. I had a fleeting feeling of true happiness tonight. The type of feeling u get when u don't take meds for a long time.

Take 6mg in the morning and again in the evening too. You can start out there for the next four days. Let's see how you feel then.

I promise you Mindy if you will just go along with me and not question everything so much you'll be okay. I know how to do this especially now that you have the subutex.

I'm outta here ... melinda and I are going to the movies. Later. God bless.

[mindy99]

So bummed. I was very worried about this. The sub is not working for my pain!!! Its waking me up at night. Cant stand it.

I have been taking around 12-10mg of sub.

Im trying hard here.

Just wanted to say hello

xoxo

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by mindy99

So bummed. I was very worried about this. The sub is not working for my pain!!! Its waking me up at night. Cant stand it.

I have been taking around 12-10mg of sub.

Im trying hard here.

Just wanted to say hello

xoxo

mindy ... I'm not questioning what you're saying but in your post on the 15th you say that all this started because you made a party last too long with the oxy. I don't know for sure what's happening here. I'm confused. And how much are you taking? We need to take the same amount each day. Taking somewhere around 10-12mg is not the way to do it.

There are people who have pain that will last the rest of their life and for them subs aren't the answer. I don't understand your situation as one time when we talk you're sharing about your pain being so bad and then later you say it all came from just partying and taking them too long. Which one is it honestly Mindy??? Is the pain really that bad (I'm not doubting you) or do you have a chronic condition that will keep you on RX opiates forever?

You're the only person who knows the answer to that question. No way for me to know the answer. I realize that you're trying but you have to be honest with yourself here as to whether your pain is from partying or from a chronic ongoing illness/injury. I can only go by what you tell me, I can not tell you what the problem is when the background story changes. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Mindy ... you even said above that you were going to use pain pills when this was over anyway. I don't understand why you're doing this to yourself. I honestly don't see why you are taking the subs if you have your mind made up that you need pain pills.

I would take the pain pills and be done with this if that is what you're going to do anyway. Why bother with this? I think that this is possibly not the best thing for you to do. God bless.

[tired2]

Hi, Middy,
I have read your posts so you went off Suboxone and got the Subutex....then went back on pills. I know we had the same problem with the Naloxone .

I started two days on Subutex 16mg then Suboxone 16mg within two weeks give or take I cut to 10mg boy I was sick so I took the 16mg the next day. However I was sick all the time after...I found this site and Robert worked with me.I believe we tapered to 12mg not sure on the number.

Last Wed. I at least got the doctor on the phone he gave me 3 days of Subutex and refused to give me more ...kept saying he can't do that so 3 it was ...Robert got me down to 10mg yesterday ..I was suppose to do 8mg but wasn't feeling well early in the day and emotional so I didn't taper to 8mg ... I was worried about pills not lasting thru today .

We did taper to 8mg today I took my 4mg of Subutex this morning called the doctor even said it was an emergency but they said he was booked and out Tues. I even left a message this morning and no call back after 8hrs.I later left a message with the girl that deals with scripts who would be talking to him ...I explained how sick the Suboxone made me sick all over etc..they say they will call you if there is a problem ....well No script no call real nice...I did get an appointment with him Wed. and my husband is coming also.

I have 2mg of Subutex left Robert told me to take that and use the Suboxone to make up the rest of my dose. Well I only took the Subutex about ten min. ago and held the Suboxone in my hand and just looked at it, but before I took it I called the Pharmacy one more time and the doctor did order some Subutex not sure how much but I'm so happy my husband is going to get them now.

God was listening to my prayers for sure!!!

I think you tapered to fast I'm not sure PLEASE TRY AGAIN....you can do it. I have good and bad days . I know all about the pain but at one point like I said in my post I was on morphine for pain....my whole life has been pills for pain ,panic attacks and anxiety . I have extreme pain every night to the point I can't move so I get it (even on the Subs I'm still in pain)....however when I was on all those pain meds I was still in pain .

I went thru detox and went back on pain pill for another 1 1/2 years ....now here I am .

If you every need someone to talk to you can always talk to me if you want...I will Pray for you.

Take care and God Bless
Pam

[mindy99]

Hi, im sorry if i got u confused with my history. I tend to try and make things short, or i do not completely write everything clearly.

1. Yes, i have two conditions which i need to treat with pain medication. I have severe endometriosis, i have had 4 surgries for it. Its everywhere, my bladder, intestines, as well as all of my other parts. It is so bad the dr had to remove one of my ovaries. I am full of adhesions. I had surgery about 4 years ago, which really helped, but, it slowly came back and these last 3 years have been very bad. My first surgery brought out my lyme disease.

2. I dont know how much you know about lyme diseases and co-infections. I have probably had it for 20 years. Didnt know it. First surgery for endo, brought out my lyme, because, surgery can trigger a lyme relapse. I have been treating it, but, i still have symptoms. Since last July, my symptoms are starting to give me chronic pain.

3. Been in pain management for 3 years. When my endo came back after my 4th surgery. Cant have another surgery for endo, because my lyme is out of control as it is. I have been with one doctor who i saw 4 times a year. He started me on lorcets. At the end of 3 years i was getting 35 lorcets a month. I did not abuse them, doctor shop, call early, none of that.

4. 5 months ago, is when i got a new assistant. She is the one who had the roxis. I had never heard about them before. I was going through some difficult stuff, plus, i was in a lot of pain. NO EXCUSE, but i tried one. Wow, they worked great, made me feel amazing too. Needless to say, i got addicted to them, WAY addicted.

5. I switched pain doctors, because A. He didnt really understand my lyme condition, and B. I wanted to switch drs for a long time, because i was never confortable with him.

6. I went to her doctor, got myself a script for the roxis, 30mg. That was going on for the last 3 months. Two months i bought from her.

7. I started waking up EVERY morning in WD, because i was taking so many pills. I had to buy more to go with my prescription. I was going broke and sick and it was just crazy.

8. Tried to tapper roxis, but, it was very hard and just too expensive. So, i decided i would try the suboxone to detox from the roxis. Try and get myself back to where i was before. So, my last pain dr appt, i switched to roxi 15mg with percocets for break through. I already set my meds up so i would not have any 30's. The 15's will be easy to break in half and it will be 7.5mg.

9. My goal is to get off this and be able to use my meds like i use to.

10. LEARNED a lesson. Will NEVER do that again. But, i have chronic pain.

So, i hope that clears up where i was and how i got here and why i have chronic pain.

I got my period the last 4 days, and i am having pain through the sub. Its terrible.

I also cracked a tooth, with a root canal, but its still causing me pain. Im getting it fixed this morning. Its only been two days, but, it REALLY hurts.

BTW: I have lost 9 adult teeth from root canals going bad, i believe from the lyme disease.

Anyway, i dont usually write all of that, because, it takes a lot of time, and who would want to read all of that? Sorry if i confused you.

xoxo

[Robert_325]

I'm glad you wrote all that out. It's important information that is needed to offer a worthwhile suggestion. At least now I know that you have some bonafide health problems. My question is what are they doing to help with the lyme disease and endo other than pain meds? Are you seeing an infectious disease specialist or what? Mindy .. it seems from what you've said about all you've received is pain meds for your problems. What have they done to try and correct the problems? I know they did the surgeries but what is the ongoing treatment for both of your main chronic condiditions? Are they administering antibiotics or what are they doing for you?

If you have no alternatives and you're going to be on pain meds for life when this is over then you should taper down on your meds and blow off the subs. I mean that with all due respect. Trying to stop the pain meds if you're in severe pain isn't going to work for you while planning on using again. It's difficult enough to get clean when we are commited to staying clean. I think it's next to impossible when we are planning to use again anyways. I mean that sincerely. I would not do this the way you're doing it at all.

I understand that you're trying to do what you think is best for yourself. I just question if you've made the right decision to follow through with this plan. Subs aren't meant to be used for this purpose. They simply treat opiate addiction, that is about it. You use subs to get clean but they aren't a cure, they aren't a miracle, they're just a prescription. It takes someone being committed to not using for subs to be successful. You're just not there that I can see.

I'm sure that part of your pain is the pain from your drug dependency. After a while if we don't take more meds every few hours we go into w/d. But that is going to keep happening as long as you take opiates. You can't feasibly do this every few years to lessen your dependency issue. You need to decide if it's pain meds for you or if getting clean is best. If using pain meds forever is your choice, even if out of necessity, then you should be on the proper pain med regimen with a controlled release med and an instant release med for breakthrough pain. Roxies with percs is NOT a proper pain management treatment if you're going to be doing this forever. They are both instant release medications. I just don't think this is what is best for you as you're planning on using again for whatever reason it doesn't matter. Just think about what I've said. God bless.

[mindy99]

A. Treatment for endometriosis for me, is surgery. I cant take anything with hormones. And at this time, surgery is not going to be a good thing at ALL. I am finally out of bed after two YEARS of fevers 2 weeks out of every month. Two years!!!! It was terrible.

B. Lyme disease: I started with the antibiotics, (ruined my stomach so no NSAIDS). I also had IV antibiotics. I only got worse with western medicine. So, i use herbs and an electrical device, alternative medicine to treat my lyme. It is a very slow process. It can take several years. Per my lyme dr., i probably will NEVER be lyme free. Just have to try and get back into remission. I havent seen that dr in a long time, not since i started the alternative medicine.

So, thats where i am at with treatment.

As far as the pain meds, i had to get out of that 300mg nightmare. Couldnt taper from that. Too hard and too expensive. So, sub saved me. I thought i could use it, taper down, and then go back to treating my pain the way i use to. Even if i have to take 10mg a day, thats ok. I just didnt see any other option to get my tolerance down.

So, hopefully, when this is over, that is what will happen.

Does that make sense? How would you get out of such a huge 300mg oxy a day habit?

Just stopping and going into WD was just too hard for me. I would rather have the WD from the sub. It has to be better than the oxy.

xoxo

[mindy99]

I am taking 8mg a day for the last two days. Doing ok.

I have also been researching Kratom to help with WD from the sub.

Have you heard anything about it??