[killer-oxy]

Originally Posted by killer-oxy

OK, so After tomorrow (being Thursday is tomorrow) - I start 3mg for Four days, correct?

I am feeling Very nervous all day for no reason I know of. I also sweat so
bad last night it was sickening. I have No energy.

Hoping the rest of you feel better than I do or not worse in any event.

Marilyn

So...NOW I am quoting my own self - lol. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions b4 you all came online here.

As you probably don't recall / not in this thread / I will tell it again. I was also a heavy binge boozer and I was taking about 20 to 30 mg valium a day when I had the 120mg a day oxycontine habit (no oxy since April).

I know that this should have killed me...but for some reason this little woman is still alive. (so far)...

So...here I sit. On the sub day dose of 4mg. One 7.5 mg dose valium (which doesn't stop the shaking all the time).... and then something just occured to me.

Where I live, codiene is an over-the-counter med, it's in a Lot of things, like cough syurp...so this bottle of tylenol I have had contains also 8 mg of codiene in it along with caffiene--so THAT went down the drain...as I am thinking that is a narc too - so may be interfering with the subs?

Could taking 2 tylenol with 8 mg codiene/each a day make me sweat???

I am thinking a - DAH - ya - but I honestly do not know the answer as it is such a small amount...?

And if so, how many days of taking No codiene will stop this if this is what is causing it?

If it doesn't stop soon, do you think it may be a different issue or could it still be from the booze?

And Robert....I know you certainly Do Not have to be doing this for me but you Are anyway and for this I am truly grateful for you and everyone....

[killer-oxy]

...the more i've thought about the tylenol, the more I realize I have made a very big mistake....I am an addict, i didn't say a very achomplished one! It just never ever occured to me until now...

What am I in for to expect now Robert?

I mean I didn't take them everyday...only on days I had a big fat headache...

OH I feel So sad and MAD for being SO STUPID - putting myself through this when I *thought* I was doing everything right!

Marilyn~ feeling really stupid right now....Please oh please tell me what to do/expect Robert...I am freaking a bit. I have 25 subs left now...

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by killer-oxy

OK, so After tomorrow (being Thursday is tomorrow) - I start 3mg for Four days, correct?

I am feeling Very nervous all day for no reason I know of. I also sweat so
bad last night it was sickening. I have No energy.

Hoping the rest of you feel better than I do or not worse in any event.

Marilyn

Hey kiddo .... just do your best to settle down and relax. I know it's easy to get all wrapped up in getting ourselves worked up but it doesn't do you any good and you'll feel so much better once you get a little time under your belt building your momentum. Just do your best to relax and look at the good side of all this. This is the first day of the rest of your life. End it tonight with a big smile and know that every day is going to get better and better. Talk tomorrow. God bless.

[killer-oxy]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Hey kiddo .... just do your best to settle down and relax. I know it's easy to get all wrapped up in getting ourselves worked up but it doesn't do you any good and you'll feel so much better once you get a little time under your belt building your momentum. Just do your best to relax and look at the good side of all this. This is the first day of the rest of your life. End it tonight with a big smile and know that every day is going to get better and better. Talk tomorrow. God bless.

Dear Robert - I am getting the feeling that at this point you feel I need to *get a grip* before anything else...

Easier said than done; I wish you would have answered my question though as I would like to know what to expect-but maybe you don`t want me to know - haha.

We must be in WAY different timezones too -- unless you are on here at 3-4 a.m.

I am going away for the weekend-thank God and am hoping that will help me to get the grip I so badly need.

I am MOVING in about 3 weeks -- have a zillion bills to pay -- have a divorce to get through-- am strung so thin I feel like a elastic band.

OK - so, DEEP BREATH and will try very hard not to *think* about all of this and just keep on the 4 mg until you tell me different. I am SO NOT stable.

Will try to check in tomorrow, should be able to each day even while away.

Yours Truly - your headcase Marilyn

[killer-oxy]

So...since August 27th at my last post and I was away; I am still at 4 mg sub per day.

No one else has posted here for me since I've been away... so I don't know if you guys and gals were waiting for me or what...anyway - I have been under an enormous amount of stress....no access to this board and so I just stayed at 4 mg.

Please, Robert, Where do I go from here??

You told me I needed to get a gripe on myself. I am somewhat simmered down. I got a dr. to up my Valium and I am no longer shaking apart or feeling as fragile, but he won't do it again he said so I have to be very careful with what I have.

It was SO bad that a simple finger on my shoulder would send me leaping...(you know what I mean I am sure).

I just want/need to get on with this Sub taper and get it over with.

Please - Needing Aid here...

Thank you - ~Marilyn....

Oh and just a point of interest--tonight I had just moved from a spot I was standing to ask a lady a question when - WHAM! a large truck came smashing into the building and went right into it! - Right into the building; made of bricks no less. I am SO fortunate to be alive.....wow.

[killer-oxy]

Hoped to hear from someone...is anyone out there reading me? It has been
5 days - into 6 now since any input for me here...

I know Robert said to start my own thread but there doesn't seem to be anyone posting so I go back to the main sub board...don't know what else to do...

Could use some help...I am *guessing* I should go to 3mg sub now but I don't really know....

SO..that is what I will go for today - Day 1 on 3 mg per day for 4 days...Robert?

~Marilyn

[killer-oxy]

Originally Posted by sillygeel

Hey guys and girls, whatz up? Are we jumping threads? OKey dokey.....I am exhausted and on the pity pot but I am still willing.....it is all good in the hood. Stopped chemo last Thursday and my infectious smile has almost come back. I will need direction on my last quest. I am determined to be clean off subs by sept 5. Robert do I have a chance? I am at .5 mg once daily.......JUST about stabilized. God is Good.....NAMASTE~ MY FRIENDS

Hi - Sillygeel - I was just wondering how you are doing...have not read you in awhile.

It would be nice to hear a line or two from you.

Marilyn

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by killer-oxy

Hoped to hear from someone...is anyone out there reading me? It has been
5 days - into 6 now since any input for me here...

I know Robert said to start my own thread but there doesn't seem to be anyone posting so I go back to the main sub board...don't know what else to do...

Could use some help...I am *guessing* I should go to 3mg sub now but I don't really know....

SO..that is what I will go for today - Day 1 on 3 mg per day for 4 days...Robert?

~Marilyn

Marilyn,

I could use some help too! I'm sorry if you feel like I've ignored your posts. I don't do that normally. I just went back and checked. I posted like four to six times EACH DAY on the 23rd -26th with suggestions. I've also pointed out that I'm facing major surgery myself and in horrible pain day and night. I'm doing the best I can do but my personal conditions should rate a little here too.

I don't have time for 4-5 posts on any days for each member. Ask your questions and I'll be happy to answer them. I'm being sincere, not trying to be a wise guy. But I can't carry on conversations throughout the day when I'm sick, plus I've got close to 50 people each day wanting my undivided attention. Ask a question and I will be happy to answer. Just please understand that I'm just a human too and I have problems of my own. I do this for free. Maybe if someone wanted to pay me hundreds of dollars per day like they pay for the garbage instructions they receive from the drs who are messing them up I would put my own well-being farther back on the list of priorities. I'm doing my best considering my personal situation at the time. Sometimes I don't even get a thank you here, let alone any type of "tip". LOL It's like I'm EXPECTED to be here for everyone else.

Reduce your dose by 25% every four days. So if you were on 4mg drop to 3mg for the next four days. I do the best that I can do at this but I've had some serious health problems of my own in addition to nursing Melinda through her surgical complications. Everyone will have to accept the best I have to offer at this time. That's all I can do physically at this time. God bless.

[killer-oxy]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Marilyn,

I could use some help too! I'm sorry if you feel like I've ignored your posts. I don't do that normally. I just went back and checked. I posted like four to six times EACH DAY on the 23rd -26th with suggestions. I've also pointed out that I'm facing major surgery myself and in horrible pain day and night. I'm doing the best I can do but my personal conditions should rate a little here too.

I don't have time for 4-5 posts on any days for each member. Ask your questions and I'll be happy to answer them. I'm being sincere, not trying to be a wise guy. But I can't carry on conversations throughout the day when I'm sick, plus I've got close to 50 people each day wanting my undivided attention. Ask a question and I will be happy to answer. Just please understand that I'm just a human too and I have problems of my own. I do this for free. Maybe if someone wanted to pay me hundreds of dollars per day like they pay for the garbage instructions they receive from the drs who are messing them up I would put my own well-being farther back on the list of priorities. I'm doing my best considering my personal situation at the time. Sometimes I don't even get a thank you here, let alone any type of "tip". LOL It's like I'm EXPECTED to be here for everyone else.

Reduce your dose by 25% every four days. So if you were on 4mg drop to 3mg for the next four days. I do the best that I can do at this but I've had some serious health problems of my own in addition to nursing Melinda through her surgical complications. Everyone will have to accept the best I have to offer at this time. That's all I can do physically at this time. God bless.

I Completely and Totally understand. I know you suggested I settle down

But you didn't answer my questions....ex: the codeine....in any event - those left and I have NOTHING narc but the subs. I explained about that dumb foo-paw....

I will try very hard to be more direct in future and keep my posting to you to a minimum.

God be with you during your surgery....

~Marilyn
P/S I am QUITE certain that if you asked for donations, you would get a BoatLoad of them!

[Robert_325]

Marilyn ... thanks for having such a good attitude with my answer. After I read my reply I really sounded like a jerk to you and I apologize. You were very kind to me.

I have been in such serious pain in my left knee it's all I can do to even sit at the computer. I meet with an orthopedic surgeon tomorrow afternoon. I know that I'm looking at another surgery, probably a total joint replacement. I just know it really hurts badly right now.

Melinda has been taking care of me this week. I have never had the type of pain in a knee before that I'm experiencing at this time. I don't like to get into my problems but I'm nearly in tears. I just don't get into my problems here very often. It's all I can do to answer questions asked of me to have time to explain my problems too.

I'm just hoping that once and for all they can fix me. I've been dealing with knee operations since 1990. I have a feeling this one will be totally different than what I've experienced in the past. All prayers are appreciated and my sincere apology for talking like a smart butt is extended to you. God bless.

[killer-oxy]

I truly wish for you to get well and be free of that pain!

We can ALL only do what we can do - and if we don't put ourselves first sometimes; then we are no good to anyone...I know you know that...

Be good to yourself and don't sweat us - hell; after all we have all been through in life, if we can't get through this with all the directives all over this board then we are not trying very hard, IMO!

I don't believe that God got us this far to let us leave now!

~Marilyn

[bev49]

Robert, I really wish you a very very speedy end to this problem with your knee. Can you take anything for the pain at all? Do you just bear it? I pray that you get the doctor you want and that they fix it so that you're releieved of th misery. best wishes.

[killer-oxy]

welp...I am still at 3 mg.

I just can't seem to get up the *courage* to go for 2mg...but I KNOW I HAVE TO.

SO...after 8 days at 3 mg, shall I go for the 2 NOW?

Just DO IT?

Push me along here guys and gals...please.

~Marilyn

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by killer-oxy

welp...I am still at 3 mg.

I just can't seem to get up the *courage* to go for 2mg...but I KNOW I HAVE TO.

SO...after 8 days at 3 mg, shall I go for the 2 NOW?

Just DO IT?

Push me along here guys and gals...please.

~Marilyn

Marilyn .... you SHOULD be okay to reduce again after 8 days kiddo.

Don't be afraid, just go for it. After 8 days you should do very well. Split it into two doses, take 1mg twice a day. Let me know later in the day how you're doing.

I've got a dr appt this morning but will be back asap. God bless.

[bev49]

Maryilyn, you are tooo nervous. Just try to relax and go with the flow... Follow Robert's directions and it definitely will work out ok. You're letting your anxiety get the best of you, not a good thing during a detox or taper. I could never take the subs too late in the day. Even though it put more drugs into my system, it would make me jittery, nervous, and I couildnt sleep at all. It sounds like you have the same issue. Don't take any too late in the day... Try to stay calm !!

[killer-oxy]

Originally Posted by bev49

Maryilyn, you are tooo nervous. Just try to relax and go with the flow... Follow Robert's directions and it definitely will work out ok. You're letting your anxiety get the best of you, not a good thing during a detox or taper. I could never take the subs too late in the day. Even though it put more drugs into my system, it would make me jittery, nervous, and I couildnt sleep at all. It sounds like you have the same issue. Don't take any too late in the day... Try to stay calm !!

Yes, nervous nellie, that's me.

It stems from many issues but being alone all the time does NOT help...it only feeds the anxiety.

Soon I won't always be alone anymore and I know that will help. I also know I have a LONG way to go in recovery -0 not just from the subs.

I LOATH myself for allowing this to happen to me and that doesn't help either.

How does one stop loathing themselves? And please don't say *god don't make no junk...*

~Marilyn

[melinda7.5]

Hi Marilyn
just get on here and talk Robert does tell people to take there dose early afternoon and it does help with sleeping...your going to do fine he helped me all the way till the end and he will do the same for you...
I know it's scary but I promise you it will be ok...
wishing the very best for you...
Melinda

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by bev49

Maryilyn, you are tooo nervous. Just try to relax and go with the flow... Follow Robert's directions and it definitely will work out ok. You're letting your anxiety get the best of you, not a good thing during a detox or taper. I could never take the subs too late in the day. Even though it put more drugs into my system, it would make me jittery, nervous, and I couildnt sleep at all. It sounds like you have the same issue. Don't take any too late in the day... Try to stay calm !!

hey bev
how is your detox going have you got the nerve to drop any or are you just going to stay there, the longer you stay the harder time you will have to get off.
just in case you didn't know
Melinda

[bev49]

Marilyn, I'm really glad to hear that you won't be alone pretty soon. Being alone can be a difficult thing. Gives us too much time to dwell.
Boy, you sure opened up a pandora's box with you question about self loathing. I think most addicts are full of self-loathing. Its a vicious cycle, we do ********ty things, hate outselves for it, we hate ourselves so we continue to do bad things. So many of us are like you, with tons of issues and so many of you are working towards being recovered, not quite there yet. But like Purple and I always say, we're going in the right direction and slow and steady wins the race. Also, you're breaking the vicious cycle. Youre working on yourself and making yourself a better person. You're doing something very hard and you need to cut yourself a little slack. I won't go cliche on you and say "God don't make junk" Lol. But I will say you should need to show yourself some love, be strong and keep going in the right direction.
Bev

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by killer-oxy

welp...I am still at 3 mg.

I just can't seem to get up the *courage* to go for 2mg...but I KNOW I HAVE TO.

SO...after 8 days at 3 mg, shall I go for the 2 NOW?

Just DO IT?

Push me along here guys and gals...please.

~Marilyn

Hi Marilyn
you have done so well...you bet you should go for 2mg the longer you stay on this the harder it is to come off of there are some people on here that have been on it for a year and now they are stuck...so you go for it girl you have what it takes...just get it over with....no slow and steady do the taper as planed you will be so glad you did...
keep up the fight and don't give up on yourself...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[bev49]

Hiya Mel, I went from .75 to .50 a short while ago. Before that I was fluctuated between the 2 doses for awhile. And now I plan to stay at .50 for awhile. Please note that I've been addicted to opiates for 44 of my 60 years. And yes, thanks for reminding me, but I do know about it being hard, lol. I've been addicted to heroin and methadone so I know about difficult w/d's. But it will be hard whenever I decide to do it. No doubt about it. I don't agree with you that it will be hardER though. It will be hard for me tomorrow, it will be hard in 6 months or 6 years if I decided to wait that long, heaven forbid. Ive spent more than 2/3 of my life on opiates, I am in moderately poor health, with lung disease and diabetes and can't really see putting myself through a quick(ish) taper. However, I believe I've been living a "clean" life for many many years while on sub and before that, for my last 20 years being maintained on methadone. Ive had no addict behaviors - no pills, minimal alcohol use, raising my kids, going to work every day. I have no desire to set myself up for failure now at my age, so I'll just stay put for awhile more. At the same time, I feel I have a lot to offer many of the younger people here. (Heck, almost everyone is younger than me. I can advise people to avoid some of the pitfalls I've faced, to taper more quickly than I, go c/t, do sub, do meth, or whatever seems appropriate to the situation. I feel qualified, as is every single person here, to give my opinions and dole out advice when I can and I don't feel I'm being hypocritical. Because I am moving in the right direction for me, just doing it at my own pace which is something everyone ultimately has to do anyway.

Bev

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by bev49

Hiya Mel, I went from .75 to .50 a short while ago. Before that I was fluctuated between the 2 doses for awhile. And now I plan to stay at .50 for awhile. Please note that I've been addicted to opiates for 44 of my 60 years. And yes, thanks for reminding me, but I do know about it being hard, lol. I've been addicted to heroin and methadone so I know about difficult w/d's. But it will be hard whenever I decide to do it. No doubt about it. I don't agree with you that it will be hardER though. It will be hard for me tomorrow, it will be hard in 6 months or 6 years if I decided to wait that long, heaven forbid. Ive spent more than 2/3 of my life on opiates, I am in moderately poor health, with lung disease and diabetes and can't really see putting myself through a quick(ish) taper. However, I believe I've been living a "clean" life for many many years while on sub and before that, for my last 20 years being maintained on methadone. Ive had no addict behaviors - no pills, minimal alcohol use, raising my kids, going to work every day. I have no desire to set myself up for failure now at my age, so I'll just stay put for awhile more. At the same time, I feel I have a lot to offer many of the younger people here. (Heck, almost everyone is younger than me. I can advise people to avoid some of the pitfalls I've faced, to taper more quickly than I, go c/t, do sub, do meth, or whatever seems appropriate to the situation. I feel qualified, as is every single person here, to give my opinions and dole out advice when I can and I don't feel I'm being hypocritical. Because I am moving in the right direction for me, just doing it at my own pace which is something everyone ultimately has to do anyway.

Bev

Hi Bev
I mean you know harm but I know from the two weeks I was on it.how it can grab a hold of you...so it really scares mre when you tell people slow and steady wins the race the longer they are on this med the harder it will be for them to get off. your case is not like most on here...Robert has pruven that time and time again that his plan is the very best on here....we know you have been e-mailing people telling them things that you think are right ...it's just you need to be clean before you tell everyone how this is done....
Wishing you the very best and I hope some day you will win your race...
we are on here to help people not to prove something to someone...
Melinda

[bev49]

A reference was made to "some people being on one year and being stuck" I would make a good guess the reference was to me. Yep, its true. I've been on it exactly a year and a month actually. And who does it hurt? Who am I robbing to get drug money? I don't put needles in my arm, have managed to unglue myself from a methadone program, dont eat pain pills. I have gone from 16 mg. to 1/2 of 1 mg. and live my life without hurting a soul and in fact, doing what I can to help whoever I can. I do this for me, because it makes me feel good. Of course, the ultimate goal is to be free of it, but sometimes it is not doable in a certain time frame for whatever reason. I don't consider myself "stuck". I am concerned. I am cautious. This is true. You can say belittle the "slow and steady" line that Purple and I have been using for awhile but for some people, slow and steady does win the race.

Having said that, Marilyn, you aren't me. You apparently really WANT to do it in a more reasonable time frame and therefore, you have to push yourself to do it. I know its scary and I know you're nervous but you can definitrely do it. I, the one whose been "stuck" for a year, managed to go from 4 mg. to 2 with no difficulties. I didn't even stop at 3 at all. I promise you it will be a piece of cake. Anticipating the worst will just cause you more anxiety. Anticipation and fear really suck. They stop us from doing good things. Go for it! You can do it and you'll be so happy you didi.
Bev

[purpledog]

Post deleted - swearing

[bev49]

Hi Mel, I wrote my last post before I read your last post. Let me make one thing clear. When Purple and I talk about slow and steady,etc. we are referring to ourselves only two people who were on methadone long term. I have never advised anyone here to hold slow and steady and in fact usually advise the opposite. Having said that, I think that there are some people who really should use the "slow and steady" plan, either because of frequent relapses, extreme fear or for whatever personal reason they may have. I only use the "slow and steady" line with Purple and its kind of a private joke.
You know I've been emailing people telling them how to do this? LOL. Where in the world did that come from. I have an email relationship with Purple who doesnt need my advice... I have one with wit hthe poster who came on once and chose not to come back and I've spoken to Steve a few times via email, not lately though and he CERTAINLY doesnt need my advice. Other than that I have answered emails from people who emailed me first and asked a question. I will answer any one who asks me a question. I am not telling anyone how to taper. But I don't agree with you about being clean or tapered all the way down before you can give advice. As I said above, I've lived a clean life for many years. After this many years on drugs and at my age, I've acquired a certain knowledge and wisdom that just might be helpful to some. Having said all that, I don't disagree with Robert's plan whatsoever. I think its a great plan actually. And I promise you, I don't have an email campaign going on to dispute it LOL. I will just reiterate, it can't and won't work for everyone.

[Robert_325]

"bev .... I will just reiterate, it can't and won't work for everyone."





You name me ONE person who's done what we have asked to the letter who failed. I'm not talking about the whiners, the ones who won't stick it out, I'm talking about the ones who worked the program and it failed. Name someone.

And NO ONE ever said every taper lasts four days or any of that other garbage. I say talk to people who ARE clean if you want what they have. Otherwise talk to those who have a lifetime trying and be like them if that is what you want. Hang with the winners if you want to win.

It's your call, I'm not going to argue with anyone. God bless.

[purpledog]

hey you american people, stop the hell fighting with each other. we are all here to help each other. i personally get something out of every story, and if it doesnt apply to me i dont use it. its common sense.
i am thankful like crazy for finding this forum]
i just dont like everyone interfighting
it sucks big time

IM ON 3MG AND HAPPY FOR NOW.

PURPLEDOG

[melinda7.5]

so puple when did you decide to go with the slow and steadt winds the race to you have a plan...I just hope you dont get stuck like some other people have done,,,you were kicking A$$ when you started,,just wondering what happend,,,
Melinda

[purpledog]

ive been doing on average a drop of 1mg a week, actually,.
im a bit bummed out about all the troubles on here. i like all of yall. like i say, i filter all the information and save what i need. its good.

i know i have to get off subs before too long

but i only went from 4mg to 3mg last week. i feel like i am doing ok. i havent officially dropped thru the clinic, im being slippery. but i am trying to get twice a week pick ups so i have more control.

today they gave me 2 x 2mg and i palmed one, and only had half.

i reckon after my long time, im doing ok. still plan to try and be clean before christmas. its my birthday soon and it will be the first one without damn needle marks on my arms.

[bev49]

Robert, PLEASE CHILL... I am not challenging your plan. Its a great plan. But of course, there are those "whiners" and the ones who "wont" stick it out that you refer to. It won't work for them even according to you. I would call the "whiners" people who are suffering more than their tolerance can bear and the ones who won't stick it out really just cant. People who are ready will be helped greatly by your taper plan. It is certainly better than any doctor's plan I've ever seen. But people who arent ready wont and since they can't just drop of the planet or die, they need alternatives. Of course I cant name names nor would I if I could. Thats just silly. Who knows what people do through a computer, especially people that have tapered and left the site. Please stop analyzing every word of every post I write. You are overanalyzing. There is room for both of us here, don't you think? There can be differing and divergent viewpoints. People are not morons or sheep. They can take what works and throw away the rest. You don't have to worry that everyone will naively follow me and my "slow and steady wins the race" nonsense that I share with Purple. It's just a joke anyway. People shoudl say what they think or feel here and other people will either accept it or reject it. People will and should make up their own minds anyway. I am not looking to "take you on" as you said. Perhaps you can make me "lose" but lose what? My ability to post? My connection to the people I'v connected with? I don't get it

I don't want to continue to hijack Marilyn's thread for this crazy nonsense, not only with you, but now with Mel too, who I've always had nothing but the most positive and good feelings for. This ******** is getting out of control. If you wwant to continue this in email, thats fine. But we will never come to a meeting of the minds as long as you won't allow me to say anoything that you don't agree with and then say its because i'm not totally tapered. I just say what I think and believe.

Marilyn, you go girl!!! You can do it. I apologize profusely for all this trite silliness. I don't even know what caused it or what its about. I'd rather focus on whats important, like you calming down and making the drop which you KNOW you can do. AND WILL DO.