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Suboxone Taper - Help Please - Not right :(
  1. #1
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Suboxone Taper - Help Please - Not right :(

    (I just posted this at the Talk forum and realized I had posted at the wrong place...am reposting here under drugs, specifically Suboxone)

    Hi all....I'm a long time reader and first time poster. I post at two other forums on the internet that are very small, not many posters or readers but I can't seem to find the help I need there and decided to come here because of the large number of people!

    I've been on Subs since Oct 2007. Started off at 8 mgs/day...was raised to 24 mgs day from April 2008 to Feb 2011 for "chronic pain". I realize that I have been way overmedicated for years...bad doctors.

    I have finally found a pretty good doctor and it was my desire to taper and get off. Here is my problem: (trying to do this simple as possible)

    Sept 2007 - Feb 2008 - 8 mgs/day

    Feb 2008 - April 2008 - 16 mgs/day

    April 2008 - March 1, 2011 - 24 mgs/day ( I was in very bad pain from bad back surgery)

    THIS YEAR - March 1, 2011 - April 6, 2011 - Afraid that I might need "female surgery" and I tapered from 24 mgs/day down to 6 mgs/day in one month's time! Ended up on ER with bad withdrawal...my Sub doctor said that after about 3-4 weeks all the built up Sub left my system and I had tapered so fast that I went into withdrawal. Took 16 mgs that day to get some back in my system. Doctor told me it would take about 10 days to feel "normal again". This w/d triggered anxiety/depression.

    Apr 6 - April 16 - 14 mgs/day

    April 16 - April 29 - 12 mgs/day I planned on staying here at 12 for a few months to get good and stabilized from my failed fast taper attempt!
    However, my doctor switched me to strips last Friday. I have dropped my dose to 10 mgs/day as the strips are so POTENT,I am nodding out all the time and feel quite anxious. I tried to do 8 mgs yesterday and see if that helped with the nodding out but my anxiety was bad and I did 2 mgs last night.

    I don't like these strips...they feel so much more powerful and I want to sleep constantly and have very dry mouth. On the other hand, they are much easier to taper from because you can cut them.

    Prior to starting my taper on Mar 1, I had no anxiety, depression, NOTHING! At 24 mgs/day, I was sailing along in my little Sub world happy and pain free as could be. I had been told by a doc that I could be on Subs for my bad back the rest of my life! I started having some female probs and was told I may need a hysterectomy....started reading about Subs and surgery...panicked and tried to wean myself off Subs and made myself sick.

    I am happy about how far I've come...just 8 weeks ago I was at 24 mgs/day and today I'm at 10 mgs/day...but I feel so overmedicated on these strips. My mouth is dry, I feel slightly "off, out of it" and I am missing a day of work. I tried to do 8 mgs the last two days but I was having some RLS. I might add that I quit smoking on April 23rd, 10 days ago. Maybe I am having some nicotine w/d issues too...don't know.
    I feel like I can't get back to a "normal feeling" since that happened. I have extreme drowsiness, anxiety and depression now and especially since starting these strips, feel very agitated.

    I want off but I also want to feel good while doing it. Am I overmedicated right now? I was getting back to normal until I started these dang strips....I was supposed to take 1 in the morning and 1/2 in the afternoon and I can't do a whole 8 mg strip at once....I feel this intense rush and just want to nod out...it's just too much.

    Should I go back to the tablets? Can anyone help me get stabilized and continue my taper? My doctor, though he's the best one I've had, really pressured me to go on these strips and wants all of his patients on them. I don't feel right. I feel anxious, lethargic and overmedicated with very dry mouth. Maybe I am still in a state of withdrawal as I was at such a high dose for so long that I'm not used to being back down to 10 mgs.

    Thanks to those of you who read this and answer. It's so long but I don't know where to turn.
    I am 53 years old, married, still have a teenager at home...I am so tired of being on this....and this whole ordeal has thrown me for a loop. I just want my life back.

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    You've been on entirely too much suboxone the entire time. Your sub dr isn't as knowledgeable as it seems obviously. I usually induct people between 3-4mg total and NEVER use insane doses like you're describing. Your dr has no idea what he is doing and is only listening to some drug salesman telling him how to dose people. I promise you that I'm right, he has you all messed up and you're high on subs now, not what you want at all. It's causing all of your problems. I have started people as low as 1.2mg on multiple occasions and they were not rookie opiate users. How could less than 2mg work for them and you need 24mg? Your dr is totally confused and uninformed.

    I am posting a link to follow that explains how we've used subs here for years successfully. I did this with subs years ago, chronicled my experience and then kept up with the people here on the forum that used my methods based strictly on my experience. I am not a dr but I've been clean 9 years after using this process. I assure you that if you follow what the following link suggests I can help you get clean off the subs in 2-3 months time and it will be relatively painless. Read the following link closely and let me know if you want my help. I just ask that you follow the suggestions I give you to the letter if we do this together as that is the only way I can help you. Hope this helps. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    Last edited by Robert_325; 05-04-2011 at 01:05 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #3
    Anonymous Guest

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    Thank you, robert

    Tears came to my eyes when I read "You are high on Subs"....that is exactly what I feel like and I couldn't put it into words! I am not myself at all...I wish I had never agreed to these strips and still had my tablets.

    I read your link and just got an overwhelming sense of peace. You see, I quit smoking 10 days ago and it was my Lord that did it...not me. You don't just put cigarettes down and not have a w/d symptom at all, I had prayed for Him to take it from me...and he did! Last night, I prayed hard...told him that He had delivered me from the cigarettes and now would He deliver me from the Suboxone. I believe that He can. And, I believe that God uses people as instruments to do His will

    To read that you can have me off Sub in months (not 1-2 years like my doctor said) is almost unbelievable! Can you really help me? Robert, I am willing to start. To begin with, can you get me to feeling normal and not so anxious and over-medicated?!!! I'm on my 2nd day of missed work...I literally could not make myself go into work...I will agree to do what you say and also, I'd love to read some testimonials of folks who had used your way Hope is a powerful thing!
    percodeath likes this.

  4. #4
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    robert...it is time for my afternoon dose of 4 mgs.

    6 mgs - AM
    4 mgs - PM

    I am still nodding out from this morning's dose. I do not want to take this pm dose but an afraid of anxiety cropping up.

    My doctor's office has not called me back today I had called earlier to tell him how agitated, over-medicated, lethargic and anxiety-filled I am since starting these strips. UGH. I will try and call them again tomorrow.

    I cannot believe how strong these strips are and how I am reacting to them.

  5. #5
    Mikki111 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Welcome

    Hello Aria,
    I wanted to cry when I read your first post, I am certain if I had not met Robert, I
    could have written that story three years from now! My sub Doc is insisting on the
    high doses you are speaking of. I am three days on suboxone today, The Doc gave me a dose of 24mg a day 8mg 3x day! That was this past monday.
    Aria, with Robert I am taking 2mg twice a day, and it is working.
    I was taking fentanyl prescribed almost 200mg for 6 years...
    They say here that the fentanyl is a tough detox even with the subs, I can't tell
    you if that is true because with Robert and Henry I am doing great today.
    Aria- I am taking 4mg a day, please, please, please listen to Robert and Henry.
    Everything they have said is concrete. And there are years of success stories
    here, the horror stories are the one's of those that didn't follow every single
    direction to a tee. As silly as it may seem, and you may not know why they are telling you to do it JUST DO IT! They won't leave you alone in this.
    I am cheering for you, you are in my thoughts and prayers.
    You are not walking alone, I am right here on the same road with you...
    Please take care of yourself.
    ~Mikki
    percodeath likes this.
    ~We know what we are - But know not what we may be

  6. #6
    Anonymous Guest

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    I just took an hour nap...I guess I'll take my afternoon dose until I hear back from Robert. I read about 4 days with no w/d symptoms...does that mean any w/d, anxiety & depression included or just the more physical withdrawal symptoms? I am having RLS, anxiety, depression and lethargy, Even though I just woke up, I am still drowsy. I hate shutting my eyes sitting up and immediately being asleep.

    I also MUST go back to work tomorrow...I have been off work 2 days now.

    My husband is so worried about me and I am too. So, I am over-medicated on these strips but don't know how much to take right now.

    robert, if you read this...I'm going to take just 2 mgs for the afternoon instead of 4 mgs. That is reducing and I'll wait to hear from you.

    I have got so much to do the rest of this week...I have to get back to myself!

  7. #7
    Anonymous Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikki111 View Post
    Hello Aria,
    Aria- I am taking 4mg a day, please, please, please listen to Robert and Henry.
    Everything they have said is concrete. And there are years of success stories
    here, the horror stories are the one's of those that didn't follow every single
    direction to a tee. As silly as it may seem, and you may not know why they are telling you to do it JUST DO IT! They won't leave you alone in this.
    I am cheering for you, you are in my thoughts and prayers.
    You are not walking alone, I am right here on the same road with you...
    Please take care of yourself.
    ~Mikki
    Mikki, thank you! I felt a little nervous about robert's link saying that he could wean people off in 2-3 months. My doctor had told me that was NOT POSSIBLE!!! He told me that's why I got sick last month...I tried to wean too fast.

    I did some searching on here and I could not find anything negative about robert_325! There were so many people he had helped. I began to see a light at the end of the tunnel...and then there was your kind and sweet post
    There is no experience like EXPERIENCE and robert seems to have that I am going to do what he says...I feel my docs have let me down, the FDA has let me down....I am at the end of my rope.
    What do you do when you're at the end of your rope? Tie a knot and hang on! I'm going to hang onto robert for right now Thanks so much for your encouragement and testimony to robert.

  8. #8
    Anonymous Guest

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    robert...I have been reading a lot of posts here between you and others doing your taper. I have one concern...a lot of folks seem to have problems with the anxiety, You said you had some "tricks up your sleeve" for stubborn cases

    I am having such a problem with anxiety in dropping from 12 to 10 to 8 over the past 5 days. (Was doing 12 mgs/tablets one week ago...Saturday started the strips at 10 mgs...then down to 8 mgs because of feeling so over-medicated)...

    Will I overcome this anxiety if I just ride this out until I stabilize here at 8 mgs? If it takes me 2-4 weeks to stabilize here, should I wait until the anxiety has subsided before tapering any more? I am not about pushing myself while feeling like this.

    Thanks so much.

  9. #9
    rick56 is offline Member
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    Aria Hi,

    I'm new here though I've been reading the posts for weeks and feel for the first time in years that there is a chance for me to come clean. I read that also about the trick up Roberts sleeve and can't wait to hear about them as knowledge is power. In that vein I can tell you a few things which may seem obvious but often overlooked. Here are some things that I find not only helped me but is protocol in a detox clinic I went to.

    1. Hydration is number one. You have to stay hydrated to help your body fight this and function well. Pouring water down your thought may help but what you need are electrolytes.
    Emergen-c and Electro mix can be obtained at wal marts or sams or health food store. Mix each with half glass water and fill with juice cranberry, cranapple, orange helps get your c and good taste. Drink at least 3 or more 16 ounce glasses a day,
    look up hydration you would be amazed at side effects one of which is Anxiety and depression.

    2.Vitamin B-1 100 mg thiamine hcl capsules. health food stores. Take 2 capsules 2 times daily and at night for nightmares and/upset emotional state.

    3.Musolaxin and valkalm es were given to anybody who had any anxiety feelings and does help. Musolaxin is blend of valerian and Kava. take when anxious or at bedtime. May cause drosiness. Valkalm don't know what it is maybe apricot pit or something Ha Ha don't know but it works. You not to take these if pregnant or breatfeeding. Can be purchased at www.saylormedical.com.

    4. Trim calm and Trim complete. These are injected into the muscle with insulin needles which
    come with the kit. Kind of expensive about 300 for both but a life saver. trim calm is Gaba and some other stuff can look it up if you are interested, Gaba is the opposite of adrenalin its purpose is to slow down the neurotransmitters. They act like a brake. Excitatory transmitters are vital to help us stay alert, maintain our normal menory functions, our co-ordination, normal emotional response , heart rate and so on. if there is something that creates anxiety or a feeling of panic or other stress more excitatory neurotransmitters ane released and a person can feel restlessness, higher than normal irritability, rapid heartbeats, high bloodpressure, insomnia, and even seizures, Without getting into it I have been in withdrawls so many times
    lately I don't think I would have made it through without the gaba. which is instant since injected in fat/muscle.
    The trim complete is a specialized vitamin injectable. Need to vitamin up we are depleted.

    5. Cal-mag drink. Calcium and magnesium are critical to all parts of our bodies.
    This drink needs to have I believe its called akaline base thats why it is mixed with vinegar.
    This drink will sooth out those nerves guaranteed. Not sure if the cal mag tablets work.
    can get ingredients at pharmacy, some heath food stores.
    1. mix together 1 level TBSP calcium gluconate + 1/2 tsp. Magnesium carbonate.
    2. add 1 tbsp apple cider or just regular vinegar.
    3. add 1/2 cup boiling water
    4. 1/2 cup water to temperature you prefer.

    I have personally used all the above and in fact are still using them to good results.

    Of course take a walk and get out of your head look around and smell the smells
    Exercise vitally important get those endorphins working.
    listen to music loud get moving dance.

    And of course do what Robert says I personally can't thank the man enough even though I
    have never spoken with him.

    Good luck

    Rick

  10. #10
    rick56 is offline Member
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    Aria Hi again,

    Just wanted to let you know that I went from 25 30mg oxys a day to 1 every 12 hours using the
    above and can honestly say that I never once suffered. Didn't say I felt great but thats all i got.
    I would have died or wanted to off myself without. Still can't believe it.
    They took me down to that dose in 4 days the 5th day repeated the dose then onto subs. no problem.

    Rick

  11. #11
    Anonymous Guest

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    Rick, nice to meet you and glad to have all that information! I'm going to print it out tomorrow at work and go get some of these things on my lunch.

    Just got in from a nice evening walk...it's hard to push to walk when feeling blue and anxious but I know it's necessary. Just hoping I will push through this and stabilize on the 8 mgs/day and then begin to taper again.

    I too finally have hope that I will get off Subs eventually. I met a man at another board who successfully got off Subs after 6 years on them! He just tapered and tapered and tapered until poof! Nothing left to taper

    Please stay in touch...I'd love to keep up with how you do

  12. #12
    rick56 is offline Member
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    Aria Hi,

    I was afraid I was being a budinski
    I think as I do that you know when you are over medicating youself, trust in your inate intelligence. Though I do understand getting opinion from the man Robert. This is my second
    try on sub in the last month. first time was at clinic great experence I just wish I had had more
    information I was down to 2 mg every 12 hours when I left Had I read roberts post I would have
    gone straight to my doctor gotten some subs and I'd be done by now. For the last month I have been taking care of myself like never before, eating right, hydrating, vitamins, Joined a gym with a personal trainer and pushing myself to the limit. I'm in better shape then I've been in the last 30 years. That and with all the withdrawling I've done lost 20 lbs in 30 days to boot
    The new weight loss program get hooked and go on withdrawls as needed.
    My music phones stay in my ears most of the day as I rock out. I own my own business thank god so I can make my own hours. But I have to tell you I have never felt better even with sleep not so good I'm looking to the future and I can't wait to be clean. I got off of a lifetime of drugs when I was thirty six and said I would never touch them again. Got metal in my eye when I was 47 thought it was wood ended up in emergency room 2 days later. doc took metal out and heres some percs. no thanks. next day I was in again in extreme pain metal had rusted and I needed to see a specialist heres some percs no thanks. next day pain had increased specialist said here's some percs this is going to hurt bad for a while actually from wearing a patch on my eye for 5 days my good eye hurt almost as bad and I was miserable and took the percs. While I didn't get hooked right away shoulder surgery soon after and I was on my way to about 3 years that I enjoyed and 6 years wishing I could quit. While sometimes I wish I had never taken that first hit on a cigarette the gateway to drugs so they say I've had some greaat times and met people I never would have met. I own it it was me. It is eye opening. oops there I go again got to go. Stay hydrated and stay busy.

    Together we stand

    Rick

  13. #13
    rick56 is offline Member
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    Aria,

    Just wanted to say Doc put me on 20 mg first day 6 days ago and after the 24 hours of precipated withdrawls which were horrible I started over and felt good on 12 mg but after reading roberts posts it makes me feel like a druggy and am also pushing to stabilize with
    8mg 4 am 4 pm. I haven't felt good at 8 2 times a day so I'm going to 3mg 3 times. doesn't seem like much but I seem to function much better 3 times a day and after what i've been thru the last month I'm going to enjoy myself the next 4 days then I'll start pushing again. by the way
    not enjoy the subs but life.

    Rick

  14. #14
    Anonymous Guest

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    I'm waiting to hear back from robert_325

  15. #15
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by aria14 View Post
    robert...I have been reading a lot of posts here between you and others doing your taper. I have one concern...a lot of folks seem to have problems with the anxiety, You said you had some "tricks up your sleeve" for stubborn cases

    I am having such a problem with anxiety in dropping from 12 to 10 to 8 over the past 5 days. (Was doing 12 mgs/tablets one week ago...Saturday started the strips at 10 mgs...then down to 8 mgs because of feeling so over-medicate..

    Will I overcome this anxiety if I just ride this out until I stabilize here at 8 mgs? If it takes me 2-4 weeks to stabilize here, should I wait until the anxiety has subsided before tapering any more? I am not about pushing myself while feeling like this.

    Thanks so much.


    aria ..... I apologize for it taking so long for me to get around to your pleas for help. It's not like me to miss someone without a very good reason as I understand what you're going through and am here to help you the best I can. . I am sorry you've been waiting for so long!

    Yesterday I spent most of the day at dr's appts of my own. My blood pressure and heart rate has been off the charts and I have had to deal with this before I end up having a heart attack or stroke. I am on four blood pressure meds with each at their maximum doses allowed so I have had to take care of myself first before I could help anyone else. I know you understand.

    The drs have put me on a very strict diet along with a regimented exercise program. So today for the most part I have been out in the sun working in the yard, been in the pool swimming, been trying to follow the dr's orders for myself. I just read your posts and will reply before I hit the shower.

    First off, I hate that you went into precipitated w/d. That totally sucks and changes how we need to do some this from the beginning. It can take several days to recover just from that. Then we need to get you stable on a LOW dose that will enable you to get on and finish the subs in around 8 weeks. That is all the time it takes if you will follow my instructions to the letter. I know how to do this.

    In case you haven't read my sub therapy protocol here is a link. Read it closely and pay very close attention to the INDUCTION section of the link noticing most people do well at 3-4mg per day to start. NO ONE needs the kind of doses you are talking about that I have read here so far.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    You will notice that you should be starting out at a very low dose. 20mg is insane! Even 12mg that you brought up is way too high of a dose. Also there is NO reason to dose three times in one day. Subs have a half life of up to 72 hours( up to three days) so it makes no sense whatsoever to use subs more than twice a day max. Some people only dose once a day. But three times a day is addictive behavior and not good for you to do if you want to get clean.

    You talk about the anxiety you're experiencing. I assure you that anxiety is one of the first symptoms of taking too high a dose and dosing three times in a day adds to your anxiety doing that.. You can take something natural like Kava from a vitamin store, even most walmarts have kava. The best med of all for anxiety due to opiate w/d is exersize. It will help you with natural endorphine production and that will help a great deal with your overall well being. You don't have to run five miles a day unless you want to, just push yourself based on you current physical condition. And we WILL address the anxiety issue before we worry about tapering your dose in a matter that would make it worsen.

    I am going to hit the shower. Read the aforementioned link to my sub theray post and read it closely! I promise that I've done this with LOTS of people over the years successfully. And I have NEVER put anyone into precip w/d. I will check back on you in a little while after I clean up a bit and I will answer any questions you may have to the best of my ability. I will stick this out with you until you are clean if you will just do as I ask of you. If you stick with me I will stick with you. Like I said before, I know how to do this and if you follow what I say we'll get you stable and headed in the right direction. Relax and we'll have you feeling better soon. I'll talk with you shortly. I just wanted to apologize again for leaving you hanging the last couple of days. You just happened to catch me at a tough time when I've been feeling less than perfect myself. We will talk soon. God bless!
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  16. #16
    Anonymous Guest

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    robert, thank you so much for responding. Sorry to hear about your health problems...I will keep you in my prayers as I know you help many here. Take care of yourself, too

    I read your link. Yes, I agree that I've gotten all off-beam these last 2 months and need to stabilize before I start the taper.

    I know you need to know my Suboxone history before starting so here it is::

    Oct 2007 - Feb 2008 - 8 mgs/day
    Feb 2008 - April 2008 - 16 mgs/day
    April 2008 - Mar 1 2011 - 24 mgs/day

    Began my own taper on Mar 1, 2011...got down to 6 mgs/ day by April 6th and ended up on the ER with severe withdrawal symptoms...my doctor said I depleted all the built up Sub in my system too fast.

    April 6 - April 12 - 16 mgs/day (Doctor told me to put Sub back in system)
    April 12 - April 24 - 14 mgs/day
    April 24 - April 29 - 12 mgs/day
    April 29th - Switched to strips and could not do a whole strip at once...just way overmedicated feeling...felt a rush while doing it and could not hold my eyes open

    In the past week on the strips, I have gone from 12 mgs to 10 mgs to 8 mgs (for the past two days)...just trying to get to a point where I did not feel so "over medicated and anxious".

    robert, that is where I find myself today...at 8 mgs/day.

    Thank you so much...God Bless and take care of you, robert.

  17. #17
    Anonymous Guest

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    Oh, and robert...I wanted to say thanks from the bottom of my heart.

    I re-read your note to me and it just really got to me that you are having problems, yet still reaching out to help others. We are to love others as we love ourselves...its just that in this day and time, you don't see it practiced as much as it should be.

    Thanks for helping all of us here...even when you are not too good yourself. Do what the docs tell you to do...take care of yourself...and I know that you are in the prayers of myself and a lot of others here

    When I kick this, my most fervent wish is to help others do the same I think by helping others, it will give some kind of good meaning to all of this. People are misinformed, confused and need good people who have "walked the road" to help guide them.

  18. #18
    jleesey is offline Junior Member
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    Default New "patient"!

    After searching the internet for suboxone info I stumbled onto this forum-and I'm so glad I did!

    I haven't taken much time to read the previous posts so I may be repeating circumstances that have already been dealt with on here. But I am so excited to have a place where questions and concerns can be aired and almost immediately addressed that I hope you will bare with me if you have to "chew your cud" again.

    I am on suboxone and eventually want to ask questions about myself, but first I would like to ask about my sister, who just started sub. a few weeks ago and who is having horrible symptoms. In fact, she missed work this morning because she mixed up her schedule and forgot she had to go in. She is a nurse-and she is losing track of what she is doing with med. passes, forgetting things, mixing up things. Today she was put on a leave of absence because she is a threat to her patients! I called and told her about this site and she is coming over soon so that I can get details about her dose schedule. I'm hoping and praying that she can get help before her life is ruined. Her doctor doesn't seem knowledgable and is telling her to stay on her current dose-that she'll "get used to it"!

    Can we get help here?

  19. #19
    Anonymous Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by jleesey View Post
    After searching the internet for suboxone info I stumbled onto this forum-and I'm so glad I did!

    I haven't taken much time to read the previous posts so I may be repeating circumstances that have already been dealt with on here. But I am so excited to have a place where questions and concerns can be aired and almost immediately addressed that I hope you will bare with me if you have to "chew your cud" again.

    Can we get help here?
    Yes, you can get help here! It saddens me so much the misinformed, just plain old BAD doctors there are out there. I should've never been on 24 mgs/day for 3 years for a 6-7 pill /day Lortab habit for 10 months. It took 3 tries for me to finally get a decent doctor...but even he has been steering me wrong. When robert_325 answered me, I truly felt that I had been led by God to this site

    Your sister's confusion may be from being on too high a dosage. She might also be allergic to the Naloxone in Suboxone. I will defer to someone with more expertise than me...but I do know that for 3 years, I walked around in a drowsy state all the time! I told and told my doctors that I was sleepy all the time, scared to drive, falling asleep at the wheel...I got the same response as your sister...you'll get used to it. Yeah...right. I'm currently down to 8 mgs/day and STILL FIGHTING THE DROWSINESS!!!

    Start a new post with your questions and I know some old-timers will come along with answers You are in the right place!

    You and your sister need to get to the lowest dose possible to counter cravings and withdraw safely from your previous addiction. Then, as soon as you are able and ready, begin to taper off....people seem to just "know" when they are ready to start the taper. I started to really get the urge to get off last fall.

    So glad you found good info!

  20. #20
    Anonymous Guest

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    Hi Robert...hope you are doing better today

    I will be taking my afternoon dose of 4 mgs at 3 pm...I dose 4 mgs at 6 am and 4 mgs at 3 pm. Today is my 4th day on 8 mgs....still very drowsy a lot of the time and still don't feel just right.

    You told me to ask any questions....well, because of the length of time I've been on Subs (3 1/2 years) and the high dosage most of that time (24 mgs/day)...do you think I need to go slower than 25% drops? Also, would I be able to stay at a lowered dose for 2 weeks at a time instead of 4-5 days?
    The reason I ask is that I dropped from 24 mgs/day to 6 mgs/day from Mar 1 to Apr 6 of this year....and felt really good doing the drops...was not having a problem at all. All at once, when I got to 6 mgs, it was like I hit a brick wall. Anxiety, depression, horrid muscle/bone pain and feeling like I would go from burning up to freezing cold. This happened over a 3 day period once I hit 6 mgs. I thought I was dying and ended up in the Emergency Room. My doctor told me I went down way too fast and ended up in withdrawals. I am terrified of that happening again.

    I have never felt right since then....my doctor immediately pushed me back up to 16 mgs/day which I did for several days and then I went down to 12 mgs/day on my own. At that point, last Fri, my doctor switched me to the strips and they are just so much stronger that I went down to 10 mgs and then 4 days ago, to 8 mgs...just trying to stay awake. The strips are SO MUCH STRONGER, I can hardly stay awake...even at 8 mgs!

    Robert, I feel like I am just all messed up on my dosing. Very messed up...and to top it off, I may need surgery in a few months and I am just scared of it all. Where do we go from here?

  21. #21
    rick56 is offline Member
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    Hi Aria,

    Hoping you are having a better day. I'm sure things will start looking up for you real quick as now you are getting involved in the decisions. Know one knows you body and what you're feeling. Good doctors are hard to find. I'm doing fantastic. Normally I'm a workahalick. I'm in commercial construction down here in Tampa. But lately I've just been popping in here and there (have work in orlando also) and taking the time to enjoy life. I'm find myself crying a lot. I can't do that at work. A beautiful song, daybreak, kids telling me they are proud of me. Dam cring just thinking about how much I love my kids. Before I started writing this I was sitting around listening to Al Green, Smokey Robinson, Billy Paul and just became so calm. If I'm doing something wrong please lord let it last.

    I'm down to 3 mg every 8 hours. Tomorrow I"ll start tapering the middle dose out of the equation. Would do it today but Kids 24 and 26 invited me to go kayaking in the morning and
    want to make sure I in good shape.

    Take Care,

    Rick

  22. #22
    jleesey is offline Junior Member
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    Default New patient--needing emergency help!!

    I was advised by aria to start a new post with my sister's information. Is this the way to do it?

    History:
    Billie is a nurse and has a lot of pain from muscle pulls, lumbar sacralization, fibromyalgia, etc. Her doctor started her on percocet a year ago. The dose was 5 mg. every 4 hrs but she was taking 8 pills a day--taking more than prescribed, basically abusing it because it wasn't relieving the pain. She finally decided on April 12 of this year to get off percocet. The doctor put her on the kind of sub. that doesn't contain narcan, 8mg twice a day sublingual. Since then her side effects have been all over the chart. Initially, she had flu-like symptoms such as vomiting, headache, nausea. However, those symptoms are now less severe. Sometimes she has lots of energy and other times she is falling asleep at the wheel. Within a few days after starting she began to feel lots of pain that was worse than what she had before-intense joint and muscle pain. She has trouble standing and moving after she has been prone for awhile-intense pain in joints, foot pain and dizziness. The muscle pain is like how you feel the day after intense exercise. Her hands and feet are swelling. When she turns in bed at night, just that activity causes enough pain to wake her up. Now, what is even more disconcerting is the loss of memory, scattered thinking, unable to find the right words, no concentration, etc. The neurological symptoms have become progressively worse. She has struggled with depression in the past and is on 40mg. prozac. However, that is not helping now. I have watched her sink into a horrible, intractable depression. She is barely functioning. All she wants to do is sleep because she is so exhausted.

    As I mentioned in my first post, today she suspended herself from work because she is more and more forgetful and making med errors, missing work because she mixes up her schedule and is honestly afraid that she will harm a patient.

    I am desperate to help her.

    I'm desperate.

  23. #23
    Anonymous Guest

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    jleesey, to post a new thread, please post in the forum and not inside another thread as you've done here Not that anyone cares, but people will not see your thread being inside my taper thread! I want as many to see it as possible so that you can get the help you need.

    Drop down to the bottom of this page to the box where it says "forum jump". Go to the "Need to Talk" Forum and post this there. I think that is the best place for you to find some sort of advice.

    Your sister's symptoms sound serious and I don't know if they are related to Suboxone or not. I don't think Sub is responsible for some of those symptoms...they seem more neurological in nature. Perhaps she should be tested for MS but I do know one thing...with symptoms like that, she needs a doctor's help immediately.

    Please keep us informed and prayers go out for you and your sister.

  24. #24
    jleesey is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by aria14 View Post
    jleesey, to post a new thread, please post in the forum and not inside another thread as you've done here Not that anyone cares, but people will not see your thread being inside my taper thread! I want as many to see it as possible so that you can get the help you need.

    Drop down to the bottom of this page to the box where it says "forum jump". Go to the "Need to Talk" Forum and post this there. I think that is the best place for you to find some sort of advice.

    Your sister's symptoms sound serious and I don't know if they are related to Suboxone or not. I don't think Sub is responsible for some of those symptoms...they seem more neurological in nature. Perhaps she should be tested for MS but I do know one thing...with symptoms like that, she needs a doctor's help immediately.

    Please keep us informed and prayers go out for you and your sister.

    Thanks so much! As you see, I don't normally get on forums. Don't know about threads, but now I see what you mean. 'Tis a mystery to me...but so is facebook! I appreciate your advice and concern.

  25. #25
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleesey View Post
    Thanks so much! As you see, I don't normally get on forums. Don't know about threads, but now I see what you mean. 'Tis a mystery to me...but so is facebook! I appreciate your advice and concern.




    Startig a new thread was good advice. I am having some serious blood pressure issues and intense pain problems myself today. So I'll try to do the best that I am able today especially. I will try to help you but I am not really up to par today as I am literally sick

    I also have fibro and some other automune problems. You might speak with your rheumatologist about some prednisone based on your medical history. Lyrica may help you as well as lots of people use lyrica for fibro problems.

    Let's see how you feel doing this for a couple days with the dr as the prednisone or lyrica may help you noticeably. I will try to be more help tomorrow as I hope that I feel better then. I am just not up to par today. Sorry! Some people find some relief with Cymbalta as well. God bless!
    Last edited by Robert_325; 05-06-2011 at 07:07 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  26. #26
    Anonymous Guest

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    Sorry to hear you are in pain, Robert....go lie down and rest

    We'll talk about my taper later when you are feeling better. I'll continue to stay at the 8 mgs and post my progress there. Let me know when you feel like speaking again.

    I hope you have a restful, peaceful night....hate to hear you are in pain.

    God Bless you all...God help us all in our endeavors to help others and be helped ourselves

  27. #27
    jleesey is offline Junior Member
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    It was very kind of you to respond Robert when you are in such a horrible state. I'm sorry you are feeling badly and I hope you rest well and feel a bit better tomorrow. I notice that you are very knowledgeable and I hope that at some point we can chat. I'll watch for you!

    Take care.

  28. #28
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleesey View Post
    It was very kind of you to respond Robert when you are in such a horrible state. I'm sorry you are feeling badly and I hope you rest well and feel a bit better tomorrow. I notice that you are very knowledgeable and I hope that at some point we can chat. I'll watch for you!

    Take care.


    You don't need to drop doses by less than 25%. You may need a couple of extra days betweem dose changes, but stick with the 25% reductions. They will all work out even if it takes a little extra time.

    I appreciate your concern and advice. You are right in that I need to slow down. I am just about to take that action as I really am not feeling very hot today. Hopefully the weekend will do it for me. I will be in touch as I make a comeback. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  29. #29
    jleesey is offline Junior Member
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    Robert, I know you are not well and I don't want to add to your burden. I have been reading other threads and see that you are also very busy helping others. When the time comes, I would really love your help. I don't want to overwhelm you. I know that this is not the thread for me--it's for aria and I don't want to take away from her. I don't know where else to talk to you!! So....where shall I find you later...when you feel better? Or maybe you would like to suggest someone else who has your experience and then I don't have to bother you.

  30. #30
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleesey View Post
    Robert, I know you are not well and I don't want to add to your burden. I have been reading other threads and see that you are also very busy helping others. When the time comes, I would really love your help. I don't want to overwhelm you. I know that this is not the thread for me--it's for aria and I don't want to take away from her. I don't know where else to talk to you!! So....where shall I find you later...when you feel better? Or maybe you would like to suggest someone else who has your experience and then I don't have to bother you.



    jleesey ....... I will start a thread for you myself. Just click on the "Quck Links" at the top right of the posting box above and then click on "today's posts" when the scren drops down directly below that.

    I was just about to lay down and rest so I could be well enough to go to church tomorrow. If you can give me until tomorrow when I come home from church I'll do all I can for youl I will try to get back on in a little while tonight to check what you post. Tell me all about your story and we'll go from there. Don't leave any of your medical history out and using history. I'll take that and do my best to give you the best infor hat I am able.

    Your thread will be in the NEED TO TALK category and you'll be able to subscribe to the thread. Then anytime someone posts to that thread you'll receive an email from ddc so you won't miss any postsl I will title it "Jieesey's thread to Robert" so it will be easy for you to find. Hope that helps and we will talk soon. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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