[no_more_tram]

I just wanted to share my experience with anyone who is tapering off of Suboxone or even thinking of starting it. I am NOT trying to discourage ANYONE from treatment of Suboxone, only want to be as helpful as I can.

My addiction to pain meds started about 3 years ago, due to a back injury at a previous job. For the most part, I took Tramadol, but eventually got up to taking anywhere from 16-25 a day. I used Vicadin, Percocet, and towards the end I was even popping Methadone. I have been through two detox programs, using Suboxone. The First time I was released from Detox I was drug free for about 2 months. I only took the Suboxone while in the Detox. This second time I entered a Suboxone Program, and all together including my time in Detox had been on Suboxone for 3 1/2 months. My main dose of Suboxone was 12mg daily (2mg tablets 6x day) I stayed at that dose for about 2 months or so, then I was tapering down 2MG every week, once I was down to 6MG I started having withdrawal symptoms including: cold/hot sweats, anxiety, depression. I spoke with the programs nurse about what I was going through and we decided to go back up one 2MG tablet. I did this for about 2 days and was still having withdrawals. They did however subside once I took the Suboxone, but as for ME I figured if I am going to deal with withdrawals by tapering and prolong it then what's the use , I may as well stop the Suboxone. So I did, and I am on Day 3 of being Suboxone free. I am still having mild withdrawls: toes/hands cold, some anxiety, feeling blue, nervousness, stomach cramping. I have to say that I am ok with that because I know each day will be even better for me. But the first 2 days were very bad. I have two small children and I had to stay at my moms so that I could have help with them. This is how my body reacted and how I chose to be off Suboxone, as for others you may want to do the tapering especially if you have been on the Suboxone for a longer period of time. I know hope that I am on the road to recovery without any help, other then my meetings . I am still currently in the Suboxone Program and will be talking to my Counselor on Monday. I love the program and the meetings and still plan on attending them as I normally do. There came a point when I wanted to be free of everything, even though Suboxone helps well with cravings, withdrawals, it really is not recommended for long term, and I can see why. Good luck to everyone out there, if you really put your mind to something you can do it, it takes effort though.

[bev49]

I can't even relate to this because I can't imagine a sub program advising anyone to take it 6x a day. I've never even heard of that. It's meant to be a 2x a day drug, and some people even manage taking it once a day. So you walked away for the sub at 10 or 12 mgs. a day??? Wow. I hope it works out for you but I don't see how it can. Sorry but I'm just being brutally honest. Doctor's are basically idiots. If you take the sub the right way and taper properly, it can be done with a minimum of problems. Its been done by people here over and over again with help from RObert and others.

I must agree with bev49 here. Taking sub for 3 1/2 months at 12mg per day dosed out at 2mg SIX times a day is not how its done. Twice a day at the most is the prescribed dosage for sub.
Let me be both earnest and frank here. We are all human beings, and we will all go thru withdrawal if we take 12mg Suboxone per day for three months, then jump off the cliff.
I would have to think that you are gonna hit the rocks hard! The half life is a day and a half on this stuff. If you say its been three days now, and you only feel a little withdrawal..... then you have got to be a miracle!
I honestly do not know what to make of this.
I have tapered down off sub for about seven weeks now. I might add that I have only been on it for seven weeks. I took my last crumb (.125 mg) Thats 1/64th of a 8mg pill early this morning.
I have had some stomach issues the past couple of days & feel a bit fatigued. Nothing terrible, just going to the bathroom alot, and feeling a little p00py.
If you say that you jumped from 12mg to zero and you feel OK after three days..............all I can say is .................?

[bev49]

I ditto your ......?, garry. I must say I think there is someting very fishy going on here. I don't believe any doctor or especially a clinic which specializes in sub detox would prescribe sub in this way. Six times a day? That means every 4 hours, waking yourself up in the middle of the night to dose? Come on. Thats ridiculous. And I don't care who you are. Walking away from that dose is not possible. Sub is stronger than morphine. While you don't get the euphoria, you would certainly get the w/d if doint it c/t from a high dose. So I think the poster is either confused or just got some of his facts wrong.

[no_more_tram]

Originally Posted by bev49

I ditto your ......?, garry. I must say I think there is someting very fishy going on here. I don't believe any doctor or especially a clinic which specializes in sub detox would prescribe sub in this way. Six times a day? That means every 4 hours, waking yourself up in the middle of the night to dose? Come on. Thats ridiculous. And I don't care who you are. Walking away from that dose is not possible. Sub is stronger than morphine. While you don't get the euphoria, you would certainly get the w/d if doint it c/t from a high dose. So I think the poster is either confused or just got some of his facts wrong.

I was taking 3 in the morning, 1 at noon, and 2 at night. I then tapered down one pill per week until I got down to only taking 3 pills per day, one in the morning, one at noon, and one at night. I meant to say that I take 6 pills a day not at 6 different times. And I am feeling MUCH better, I am not however 100% back to my normal state, but I am over the worst!! You must keep in mind everyone and everybody is different. I know of several people that had NO problems stoping the Suboxone. Sometimes it helps with a good state of mind.
So I "walked away" from taking 6mg a day, at 3 different times. Thanks for taking the time to read my post

[no_more_tram]

My withdrawals although now have subsided where pretty severe the first 2 days. I realize that Suboxone stays in your system for sometime. My first two days were very bad, I had nurmeous withdrawals, that is why I had to stay at my mom's to have help with the kids. Sometimes people CAN overcome their ADDICTIONS in ways other seem to easy, not saying that I have OVERCOME mine, but I am going to take it day to day. I have a supportive family, boyfriend, friends and everyone involved in the Suboxone Program, although I am no longer taking it, I still plan on being at those meetings!!

[bev49]

I didnt mean to imply you were lying no more... It just seems amazing to me to jump off at 6 mgs. but more power to you really. I wish I could do it like that. I'm surprised however that a sub clinic would have you dosing 3 times a day when all the literature states the med should only be used 2x a day. It has such a long half life that it probably really can be taken 1x a day (as I take it) but 2x is the max. I'm surprised a sub clinic doesnt know better.

[no_more_tram]

Originally Posted by bev49

I didnt mean to imply you were lying no more... It just seems amazing to me to jump off at 6 mgs. but more power to you really. I wish I could do it like that. I'm surprised however that a sub clinic would have you dosing 3 times a day when all the literature states the med should only be used 2x a day. It has such a long half life that it probably really can be taken 1x a day (as I take it) but 2x is the max. I'm surprised a sub clinic doesnt know better.

It does seem amazing to jump off like I did, and I am not going to say that tommorrow I won't wake up craving a pain pill, or having stomach cramping, I am still in withdrawals, but they aren't near as bad as those first 2 days. And as far as only prescribing the Suboxone 3x's a day I am not sure why this clinic does. Well when I was in Detox the Dr. came in every morning at when he found out that I was accepted into the Suboxone Program he asked me what dosing felt best for me. And at that time I was taking it 3x's a day. So from there I went into the Program and the Nurse calls in the script every week, so it all really started from there. What's weird is though given the fact that Suboxone stays in your system so long, it sure was giving me withdrawals inbetween my doses. so that's what made me decide to just get them overwith instead of prolonging them during a tapering process. Again, this is what has worked for me so far, and by no means am I trying to sound AMAZING or a MIRACLE. But I thank God that I have made it these long three days, and I continue to pray to him and ask him for Strength each and everyday

[intelmetal]

I really hate to say this, but here goes nothing. I was on suboxone for 75 days. I took a grand total of just under 22 8mg subs, tapered from the start. Started at 8mgs per day, my last dose was .25mgs after skipping 1 day. This was on July 19, 2009. You are right about the first 2 days, but just wait until day 7,8,&9. These 3 days are usually the worst, with relief on day 10,11,&12. When I first got off of subs, and made it to day 4&5, I thought that I was out of the woods. WRONG !!!
You better be very careful over the next week. Do what I did and give all of your medication to a trusted family member, and tell them not to give you any subs unless you have to go back and do a proper taper. I am not trying to be an alarmist, but that is a pretty high dose of buprenorphine to jump off of without tapering down. I do wish you the best of luck, I mean that !
Steve

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by no_more_tram

It does seem amazing to jump off like I did, and I am not going to say that tommorrow I won't wake up craving a pain pill, or having stomach cramping, I am still in withdrawals, but they aren't near as bad as those first 2 days. And as far as only prescribing the Suboxone 3x's a day I am not sure why this clinic does. Well when I was in Detox the Dr. came in every morning at when he found out that I was accepted into the Suboxone Program he asked me what dosing felt best for me. And at that time I was taking it 3x's a day. So from there I went into the Program and the Nurse calls in the script every week, so it all really started from there. What's weird is though given the fact that Suboxone stays in your system so long, it sure was giving me withdrawals inbetween my doses. so that's what made me decide to just get them overwith instead of prolonging them during a tapering process. Again, this is what has worked for me so far, and by no means am I trying to sound AMAZING or a MIRACLE. But I thank God that I have made it these long three days, and I continue to pray to him and ask him for Strength each and everyday

I've been working with opiate addicts for a long time. The last thing I would do to an enemy would be put them through what you are going to be experiencing any day now. There is absolutely NOTHING correct about the way you're doing this. I hope you don't end up in the hospital as a patient.

If you come to your senses and realize you need some help let me know. I do this every single day and I'll be happy to help you. Let me know if you need some help. God bless.

[gordoheli]

No More, please keep posting as you continue to stop taking the sub's. I have heard about some people that do not get the withdrawal symptoms like most do, and who metabolize very quickly everything they ingest. I too seem to have withdrawals between doses and have been on 4mg for a long time. Good luck and wishing you the best!

Yes, everyone is different. Some metabolize different, ect. But man, there is NOBODY that can jump from 6mg of sub and skate thru it. Something just does not smell right.
I was on sub for 48 days start to finish. I just jumped yesterday. I did this taper exactly per Robert's instructions. the last couple of days I have had some stomach issues and some fatigue. It probably is going to last for a few more days, at least.
My point is this. I am not a doctor, but suboxone is powerful stuff. There is no way on this earth that a person can jump a 6mg, and feel fine after 4 days.
Is it possible that there could be a delayed reaction in this persons case? I dunno. All i know is that after a very short period of being on it, I have experienced mild to moderate tummy trouble, and have a loss of energy because my body is fighting the toxins released because of the diarrhea.
I am not calling anyone a liar, but this just does NOT add up.

[Robert_325]

This "professional" you refer to here sounds more confused than the drug addict patients. If they think giving a patient their medication (that has a 36-72 hour half life) six times a day is correct then they have no idea what they are doing. Think about what is happening here for a second! A "professional" administering suboxone six times a day must have received their training at walmart. They're just plain and simple doing this wrong.

All that's happening here is reinforcing addictive behavior having the patient taking drugs all day long when its totally unnecessary to do that. This "counselor" is totally confused and WRONG. That is a FACT!

The patient could get by on ONE dose per day. We use two only because it makes the taper a little easier spreading out the reduction over two doses. Dosing six times in one day has NO value, the counselor doesn't know what they are doing, and the patient is probably getting more harm than good using their medication in this manner.

I know what I'm talking about on this subject. I probably talk to more patients daily than 90% of the sub drs. They just don't physically have the time to work with the number of people we talk to. Their lack of knowledge blatantly shows if they think six doses in a day is the way to do this. I would suggest that you run away from this place as fast as you possibly can, get your subs elsewhere and we'll be happy to show you how to do this properly.

Otherwise, following your current instructions, you'll likely end up here again shortly wondering what in the world happened to you as you were doing exactly what your dr told you to do. Anyone who says to take subs six times a day should be sweeping the clinic floors for a living but not EVER speaking with a patient. God bless.

[bev49]

Gary, according to Intel, the worst days were 7, 8 and 9. This stuff has a wicked long half life. This would be like walking off of a methadone program at 60 mgs. or so. I would probably rather stick a stick a hot ********** in my eye than do that. I don't wish this guy bad whatsoever. I hope he can do this. I think he did the sub thing wrong from day 1 with the high doses, 3 times a day, etc. But he's really getting off wrong. He needs to read Steve's post, then yours and mine, then Rob's post for real. He needs help getting off he just doesnt know it yet. BTY, Gary, hope your feeling relatively well. Good job!!

[no_more_tram]

First off I am female And I have said MANY times that I am still going through withdrawals, not sure why everyone is thinking or ASSUMING that I'm not! Today I am feeling a bit depressed, very nervous like I drank 10 cups of coffee, still have some chills/ hot flashes. Tummy is bothering me, and not to mention my back is hurting. So, I don't quite understand why anyone is thinking that this is easy. It's not. I expected to feel worse before feeling better. There are lots of people who stop their Suboxone and do FINE! I know that each day is a working progress for me, but this is what I chose to do, and it's what I felt in my heart was BEST for ME! I will keep posting each day or several times a day if needed. I know I am not out of the woods just yet.

Also, whether you are giving doses of two or three times daily, it's fit to the person. To me it seems as if I am getting put down more than uplifting like I thought would happen. I posted about all of this for a reason, so that others see what I am going through. Not everyone has as Much trouble as the next.

[no_more_tram]

Ok it's Day 5 without Suboxone...I am still feeling nervous, some depression, but doesn't seem as bad as the first couple days. I am trying to keep myself motivated, but find if I do to much I get overly exhausted. Luckily, my five yr. old is in school all day, but then I am home with my 2 yr. old. I am able to play with them more, and even feel closer to my boyfriend. He says there is a glow about me, and seem much happier. I am trying so hard, and the time isn't dragging on quite as much as those first days. I hope to be even better by the weekend. I still have those tummy cramps every now and then, but find it helps to keep even alittle food in there. I do need to increase my liquids, water and gatorade have been my choice of beverages, also OJ. Once my stomach starts growling, I try and put something in it, or else my stomach cramps are worse.

I went to my meeting last night, and I go again tommorrow evening. I have been really dragging with energy, I heard that L~Tyrisine or B~6 helps with that? Is that right?

I have a treadmill at home that I think I will try walking on for even a few minutes, tommorrow. Today I am going to try and nap with my son after lunch. Every bit of rest counts!

It's getting easier, it's more of the mental state now, I think I might need to go on an antidepressant, I have been on several before. Well, I will post either later or tommorrow.

Oh, and I am still having constipation, although I have mangaged to get some out, still not back to where I need to be. I think I might also go grocery shopping tommorrow, and stock up on fruits and such.

[Robert_325]

Bottom line is you're taking the medication WRONG. You would be feeling good if a person who knew what they were doing was helping you.

Don't blame yourself as you're just doing what the dr says, just like most all the rest of the people on this forum having problems. So keep it up, but anticipate problems doing this the wrong way.

Your problems will continue much longer than necessary and much more seriously taking it like you're doing it. It's your call, we are a group of people who've been there unlike your dr. I see drs mess more people up on subs than the local oxy dealer. Good luck, you'll be needing it, and God bless.

[no_more_tram]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Bottom line is you're taking the medication WRONG. You would be feeling good if a person who knew what they were doing was helping you.

Don't blame yourself as you're just doing what the dr says, just like most all the rest of the people on this forum having problems. So keep it up, but anticipate problems doing this the wrong way.

Your problems will continue much longer than necessary and much more seriously taking it like you're doing it. It's your call, we are a group of people who've been there unlike your dr. I see drs mess more people up on subs than the local oxy dealer. Good luck, you'll be needing it, and God bless.

I appreciate the response, but I was having problems even taking the Suboxone, so what does it matter that I am off? I WANT to be off, so that's what I decided to do, was get off. Even if I tapered very slow, I would still have hd withdrawals, as I have mentioned before I was on a tapering program and was having withdrawals, I wanted to simply be off for good, not prolong. I understand you are trying to help, and I thank you!! Is their advice you can give me as far as what to do for my anxiety, nervousness?? That would be VERY helpful

[bev49]

I certainly didn't want it to seem as if I was putting you down. I really wasn't. I just was trying to say in my opinion your doing something the hard way when there is an easier way. The anxiety and nervousness is w/d related, no doubt. I don't know what people do for that other than more perscription drugs which area addictive. Not a good idea. I believe if you tapered more slowly your symptoms would be much less but we each have to do it our own way. Good luck to you.

TramNoMore,

We are just trying to help. Thats what this forum is for.
I just jumped from sub myself two days ago. I was only on it for 50 days or so. I did a taper that Robert laid out for me. I have felt some mild w/d's over the past few days, but otherwise I'm doing good. There is no sense suffering needlessly. This life is way too short. Good Luck.

Gary

[no_more_tram]

Bev and Gary I REALLY do appreciate the help. And I don't mean to sound like a know it all or offended, I completely understand what you both are saying.


Another Update real quick, it's the end of Day 5 and I am feeling happier, I go to the Dr. tommorrow about getting on something for depression/ anxiety. Hope whatever I am given, works wonders, lol. But if not, I will try, try again. I am beginning to feel more open minded, My mind was always in such a fog, I am actually having feelings now. I notice I can be very edgy, or annoyed quick, but with time it will get better. Sometimes Time is so important and valuable in getting sober, and staying that way for good.

I'm off to take a nice warm bath, then hitting the pillow, I have alot of racing thoughts right before I go to bed. How can I help clear my mind?

[bev49]

Gary, I sent you an answer through drugs.com email (which is how you sent yours) but it said user didnt accept emails. I also sent it to the other email listed but it got bounced back as "rejected by recipient domain". Fix the drugs.com email so you can receive or email me again but let me know how to get back to you. If there is no way to get back to you through email, let me know and I'll post to this thread. Keep on doing good, you can do it, Gary.

[bev49]

tram, hot baths work like magic.... All I can say is more power to you.... I guess this proves the adage EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.

[no_more_tram]

Day 6... still waking up very nervous, it gets better at night. Didn't sleep very well last night. But I am still clean, and another day clean is the best feeling ever.

I go to the Dr. today to get on something that hopefully works for my anxiety, cause it's really getting to me. And I don't want to relaspe cause of it.

And Bev warm baths are awesome, I have taken more on the last week than I think I have my whole life, ha!

I have a meeting tonight as well, so looking forward to that. Another Parenting meeting at the Suboxone Program. Was supposed to see my counselor today, but decided the Dr. appt was more impt, so I will try and meet with him and the nurse next week, just to keep them updated on my situation.

I just want this feeling to GO AWAY!!! It's mainly the only thing bothering me.

[no_more_tram]

Day 7, and I went to the Dr. yesterday about my anxiety/depression. and he put me on 10 MG Lexapro, which has to be approved with my insurance, and for my anxiety I am taking Ativan .5mg 1-2 every four hrs as needed. I notice already that the Ativan has definitely calmed me down some, so we will see how it continues. My back pain has been so bad, and I got a script for Tramadol, but am only taking it the way the Dr prescribed and only if IB profen isn't taking the edge off.

Also started taking a Mulivitamin and Chewable Vitamin C.

[BlackKats]

I don't know how on earth you have gone 7 days after jumping of sub at 4mg.
More power to you, but this is very much out of the ordinary. I was on sub for 52 days, and are now at day 5 since my last dose. I landed rough because I came down to quick from .25mg. Thats is 1/16th of what you jumped from. I still feel a little hazy. I did the taper to the letter, except for the last few days. Because of my haste, I have had some mild to medium stomach issues, and fatigue. They have lessened with each passing day.
I guess there are some like you who can just "jump off" and "tough it out".
I would be able to handle cold turkey, except for the "screaming skin, creepy crawly, restless limb thing". I just can't handle it. Even with bookoo benzos, it is beyond brutal. Anyways, best of luck to you.

Gary

[purpledog]

i thought that tramadol were some kind of anti depressant painkillers that are habit forming. and i thought you were quitting them, and other pills.
i couldnt help noticing you saying ""So I "walked away" from taking 6mg a day, at 3 different times""

but it looks like you have walked back into it, 3 more times. now i am a newby on subs so dont want to preach or anything, but maybe its because you keep "walking away" at a high dose that you keep relapsing.

i have a long history of relapse, but this is the first time i have tried subs, they are new here, ive done lots of other opiates mostly iv, and methadone iv as well. and i am on 3mg, after 8 weeks and there is NO WAY I AM GOING TO SABOTAGE MY RECOVERY by going too fast.

thats just my little opinion, good luck to you, i hope this time you quit.
but reading between the lines, you are still looking for a fix with a pill
sorry buts thats just how i read it. you are only going to take the tramadol as prescribed, and when the other stuff doesnt take the edge off. bit of a worry pal. think about it.

good luck
purpledog

p.s oh and by the way, i only take mine once a day, the full amount and have had no trouble whatsoever.

[no_more_tram]

Originally Posted by purpledog

i thought that tramadol were some kind of anti depressant painkillers that are habit forming. and i thought you were quitting them, and other pills.
i couldnt help noticing you saying ""So I "walked away" from taking 6mg a day, at 3 different times""

but it looks like you have walked back into it, 3 more times. now i am a newby on subs so dont want to preach or anything, but maybe its because you keep "walking away" at a high dose that you keep relapsing.

i have a long history of relapse, but this is the first time i have tried subs, they are new here, ive done lots of other opiates mostly iv, and methadone iv as well. and i am on 3mg, after 8 weeks and there is NO WAY I AM GOING TO SABOTAGE MY RECOVERY by going too fast.

thats just my little opinion, good luck to you, i hope this time you quit.
but reading between the lines, you are still looking for a fix with a pill
sorry buts thats just how i read it. you are only going to take the tramadol as prescribed, and when the other stuff doesnt take the edge off. bit of a worry pal. think about it.

good luck
purpledog

p.s oh and by the way, i only take mine once a day, the full amount and have had no trouble whatsoever.

I haven't relapsed. Ihave chronic pain, and it's been so servere that I honestly needed something to help, I take EXACTLY what I am told, and only take it if I can't stand the pain.

I have had depression.anxiety most of my life, so I do need to have something that will work on that.

I just don't ever want to take vicodin, or methadone. That's what I was heavily usuing. If there were other alternatives(which there is you just have to find what helps you) for pain, then I'd rather do that then take a pill.

In fact in The Suboxone Progran my cousnselor is going to be working on managing chronic pain, also I can start doing water therapy 2 x'x a week with a physical thereapist. I have to take is slow, and see what help, what doenst, or what even makes ir worse,


i jumped off suboxone quick and I only wanted to get it done and over with, So don't judge me cause I "wlked away" from such a high dose, again the Suboxone was actually making me sick in the end, and my nurse advised me to stop taking then and the continue when I felt better. Can I please get some Positive Reinforcement here?? I don't mind anyone stating their opinons, or telling their story, Thanks!

[BlackKats]

Originally Posted by no_more_tram

I haven't relapsed. Ihave chronic pain, and it's been so servere that I honestly needed something to help, I take EXACTLY what I am told, and only take it if I can't stand the pain.

I have had depression.anxiety most of my life, so I do need to have something that will work on that.

I just don't ever want to take vicodin, or methadone. That's what I was heavily usuing. If there were other alternatives(which there is you just have to find what helps you) for pain, then I'd rather do that then take a pill.

In fact in The Suboxone Progran my cousnselor is going to be working on managing chronic pain, also I can start doing water therapy 2 x'x a week with a physical thereapist. I have to take is slow, and see what help, what doenst, or what even makes ir worse,


i jumped off suboxone quick and I only wanted to get it done and over with, So don't judge me cause I "wlked away" from such a high dose, again the Suboxone was actually making me sick in the end, and my nurse advised me to stop taking then and the continue when I felt better. Can I please get some Positive Reinforcement here?? I don't mind anyone stating their opinons, or telling their story, Thanks!

Ahh......Now I see how you were able to jump from 4 or 6mg of suboxone without going ape sh!t.! I must not have read the part about you taking Tramadol in between..
Hey, whatever you need to do, you need to do. But others on this forum need to hear how people are taking sub, and how they are doing physically and mentally once they have come off of it. You started out with a suboxone thread, that has now morphed into a "I am taking tramadol in between my suboxone" thread. I am not judging you, Im just sayin'.
We all want positive reinforcement. But you should make your posts a little more informative. That way we don't have to read between the lines, like purple dog said. I also have chronic pain. Probably most on this board have chronic pain. I would suggest just staying on Tramadol. Suboxone is a very powerful drug that stays in your system for quite a spell. If you are having to take Trams for pain, then suboxone surely is not going to help you.
Again, you gotta do as you see fit. My advise is steer clear of the subs unless you are ready to quit using the Trams. I am no doctor,, but I don't advise people switching back and forth between the two. Just my opinion.

Gary

[Robert_325]

no_more_tram ...... I agree with Gary. Not criticizing in any way, just take care of your pain if it's too much to handle. But mixing subs and trams is really counterproductive. They don't go together, causing more problems than good.

Subs work on the same receptors as the trams, they're working against each other.

Hope that helps. God bless.