[jackets01]

Hey everyone! I was just wanting to hear of your experiences with suboxone and if it was a miracle or a nightmare. I was using 5 80mg oxycontin a day after years of Hydro and Percs mixed with soma. All prescribed for bad disc. I thought i would never have freedom again after trying everything in the book until I started the suboxone treatment. I tried everything from Methadone to cold turkey with no success until the sub. I started taking sub nine months ago and I have not seen another opiate since. I started out taking 3 2mg pills a day. I took one in the morn one at lunch and one at night and it has been a god send. I now currently only take 1 2mg pill a day and I had no problems weaning down to that. I have my life back and I am fully functional and successful again. I would love to hear your stories and hopefully help someone that is in the same boat that I found myself in. Hope to read from you soon.

[stran25]

I would have to say that suboxone has really helped me a lot. it has stopped my cravings. I stilll think about the drug but thats why im taking myself off of it to see how i feel ive been on it for 2 months but in buy the time im done it will be over 3. I would call it the miracle drug to helping any addicition involving opiates my choise was herion and i couldnt stop my habit until i did detox with methodone and then went on suboxone. And i would say its a lot easier than driving to a methodone clinic everyday lol when you could just have it on you all the time.

[jackets01]

Thats the same way i felt about it. No driving to clinics and putting up with all the ******************** and rules. I go to a doctors office just like any other patient and get my meds filled just like anyone else. I think it is great if you are serious about quitting and follow the docs instructions. One neg i have though is that I think some docs are prescribing too much of a dose. The reason I say this is because I went to a doc who is my friend and he has never charged me a penny for his services and he was truly looking out for my best interest and only had me take six mills a day. My two brothers went to a doc that they didnt know and he charged 350 for first visit and 150 for all others and he put them on 24 mills a day and they were not taking half of the opiates that I did and they had not been taking the opiates as long. Tell me what is wrong with that picture? Do the docs get comission off of the pills or what?

[bradn6919]

when starting you should be taking anywhere from 4mg-12 mg MAXIMUM per day unless you have been HEAVILY addicted for over 5 years. The other major thing is that you should NOT take it any longer than 2-3 months. If not off by that time u should only be taking around 1 mg a day. It is actually best to only be on suboxone for 15-20 days.

[anna50]

Actually, I believe that if you quit suboxone too early, you may relapse. From the research that I have done, I believe that it is better to be on it long-term. I have been trying to get my daughter to get on it. Currently, she goes to clinic for methadone. She is afraid to get on suboxone, for fear that she will relapse. She told me that she knows people who are on suboxone and still get high off of opiates. And, she knows that opiates will not get her high while she is on methadone. Also, I have a friend who is an RN and an opiate addict. She confirmed that you can get high while on suboxone.

[Charliez]

I have been on the sub. for over 6 months now & have not touched another pill. I have no desire to take anything. They said to me that if I take something I will not feel it but may have wd's so why mess with that. Anyways I am banking on the long term for my recovery & feel if I was to stop even now I probably would turn to something else just would depend on how bad I got to feeling . If I can help it I am not going to suffer in this world. That's that. If I felt ok or if I feel ok when I get off the sub. then that will be the end of it. Everyone is different you can't compare yourself with anyone really every ones got different addictions & make up and tolerances.

[leiito]

Originally Posted by anna50

Actually, I believe that if you quit suboxone too early, you may relapse. From the research that I have done, I believe that it is better to be on it long-term. I have been trying to get my daughter to get on it. Currently, she goes to clinic for methadone. She is afraid to get on suboxone, for fear that she will relapse. She told me that she knows people who are on suboxone and still get high off of opiates. And, she knows that opiates will not get her high while she is on methadone. Also, I have a friend who is an RN and an opiate addict. She confirmed that you can get high while on suboxone.

Anna,

addicts tend to be dishonest at times and highly manipulative. Your daughter and your addict friend seem to be taking you for a ride or are at best misinformed. The main differences between methadone and suboxone are (if interested why, do the homework):

1) no opiate on earth works when you're taking suboxone, you'll die from OD before getting a high, believe me, I tried very hard (getting high that is, not dying) so eventually you realize it's pointless.

It is quite easy to get high from opiates on Methadone. You might have to take a bit more and the euphoria is not as intense all of which may lead to a more aggressive method of ingesting to compensate, shooting up being the most common.

Methadone very often (40% in this country) keep taking their opiate of choice and use methadone as a) safety net in case they cant get their DOC b) to create an illusion with their parents that they are working on getting healthy while they are in effect on a substitution treatment with a full agonist, therefore it's essentially the same as if they were getting heroin from their doctor.

2) Methadone does seem to reduce or even eliminate cravings in the first couple of weeks when it gives you a high but once the honeymoon is over the cravings are back. I speak from personal experience + that's the reason cca. 40% of people on methadone still use. Suboxone/Subotex on the other hand does stop cravings, albeit it might take one a few days to stabilize, especially if switch is made from a high methadone dose or if subject does not wait to be in at least Grade 2 withdrawal (diarrhea and dilated pupils are reliable indicators, don't take her word for it as she may really go into withdrawal after taking Sub, the worse the withdrawal the better).

Your daughter is probably scared of Suboxone because of possible discomfort (not so bad though, nothing compared to actual withdrawal) in the switching phase + once she starts taking Suboxone she's not getting high again, your friend is wrong or lying, you cannot get high on Suboxone.

3) The main reason why people prefer Suboxone to Methadone and why you should consider it, while it's an opiate just like Methadone and while it may take years or a lifetime to get off it, almost everyone feels much different on Suboxone and other partial agonists, the brain receptor processes seem to be restored with the effect that while on Methadone just like on heroin and such there is invariably stupor, laziness, drowsiness and pretty much complete inability to do anything productive with predictable results (most all opiate addicts except perhaps the trust funded ones end up a financial mess, most of them physical wrecks and emotional disasters). This I know from experience.
On Suboxone patients report clearheadedness (some dislike that of course, having grown accustomed to feeling better than normal, i.e. there is no high), their vital energy restored etc. I'm on Sub for a week so this is not from experience, but if you'll do your homework you will agree.
Relapse is actually very likely when patients drop below 30mg of Methadone so your daughter will either be on Methadone all her life, with all the consequences, try reducing it, a high relapse risk, let's not even discuss kicking it.

Therefore, it makes sense for her to try Suboxone, it's the lesser of two evils, definitely no joke, but a guaranteed blocker from opiates (they don't work on Suboxone, she'd have to wait 3-5 days to feel any effect of heroin or whatever her DOC is), an almost certain cravings remover, gives her a much better shot at a real life than Methadone and if, inshallah, she does decide to stop altogether, Suboxone will be easier (but not easy by any means) to quit then Methadone.

Perhaps a good way to motivate your daughter to start taking Sub is to understand that she will be in a withdrawal sooner from short acting agonists like heroin and should actually discontinue Methadone for 48 or even 96 hours (depending on dosage, duration of Meth treatment and her metabolism) before taking Sub and she can be on her drug of choice for a couple of days.

Ideally she'd detox from Methadone with Suboxone in a month or so before she gets hooked on Sub, but from what you say she's probably not ready yet.

In my humble opinion, you should get your information from multiple and reliable sources. If you believe what your addicted daughter and an addict friend of yours tell you without bothering to check it out then you might want to reconsider. Doubt everything they say related to drugs, money, unusual behavior etc.

Best of luck.

Leiito

[mpvt]

People who think that methdone is a replacement drug just don't know what they are talking about.
Methadone needs to be taken under a doctor or clinic setting and not from your buddy down the street who gives you 40mgs to try and get high with or to stave off withdrawls.

The blocking dose for methadone is 80-120mgs/day.You have to be stable on methadone to reap the full benifits otherwise you will suffer cravings,drowsiness and lethargy.

You cannot take your DOC while taking methadone under a clinic setting for very long as they check your urine weekly.
When a patient is positive for illict drugs and\or drugs that are against clinic protocol then they are penalized.If the patient doesn't stop using illicts then a administrative discharge is started were the patient is weaned off methadone over a set time.

Methadone when used properly allows a addict to recover from the damage they have done with long term daily drug abuse.Your receptor's will recover from your past abuse and you can lead a very normal life on methadone.

Buprenorphene (Suboxone,Subutex) is a partial agonist opiate just like Talwin and works very well for people who are addicted to the weaker opiates or haven't been addict for very long (ie: 5 years or less).
Buprenorphene should always be tried first before methadone.Your receptors are able to recover when your on a stable dose of buprenorphene and you can live a normal life.

So if people don't get these drugs from a clinic or doctor then they aren't in recovery and won't be until they make a commitment......Dave

[leiito]

Originally Posted by mpvt

People who think that methdone is a replacement drug just don't know what they are talking about.
Methadone needs to be taken under a doctor or clinic setting and not from your buddy down the street who gives you 40mgs to try and get high with or to stave off withdrawls.

The blocking dose for methadone is 80-120mgs/day.You have to be stable on methadone to reap the full benifits otherwise you will suffer cravings,drowsiness and lethargy.

You cannot take your DOC while taking methadone under a clinic setting for very long as they check your urine weekly.
When a patient is positive for illict drugs and\or drugs that are against clinic protocol then they are penalized.If the patient doesn't stop using illicts then a administrative discharge is started were the patient is weaned off methadone over a set time.

Methadone when used properly allows a addict to recover from the damage they have done with long term daily drug abuse.Your receptor's will recover from your past abuse and you can lead a very normal life on methadone.

Buprenorphene (Suboxone,Subutex) is a partial agonist opiate just like Talwin and works very well for people who are addicted to the weaker opiates or haven't been addict for very long (ie: 5 years or less).
Buprenorphene should always be tried first before methadone.Your receptors are able to recover when your on a stable dose of buprenorphene and you can live a normal life.

So if people don't get these drugs from a clinic or doctor then they aren't in recovery and won't be until they make a commitment......Dave

Dave,

doctrine and protocols regarding methadone differ from country to country. In this country (Slovenia) and most of Europe methadone therapy is done with intent of reducing street drug related crime, infections and such and no one is penalized for using H. Nobody is pressured into detox, long term maintenance is OK. They do urine tests every now and then for statistical reasons and their results show that about 1/3 of methadone patients keep abusing street drugs, another 1/3 stabilizes on methadone (mostly) and 1/3 leaves the program considered detoxed though in reality many from this group go back to buying methadone (I did that so as not to be registered user when there was a threat of not being able to renew my driving license) and/or a combination of H and methadone. In Thailand methadone clinics are in the phone book and it takes 20minutes like $5 to get a few weeks' supply, same in Cambodia which has no official methadone clinics but is a country with few restrictions in general.
In the States you have a different set of rules on account of a different doctrine. I tend to feel European approach is more realistic and ultimately more successful in terms of public interest.

[mpvt]

It's amazing how the treatments differ so much from country to country.I'm in Canada and you would think that our opiate addiction treatments would be very siomialar to the United States but really they are quite different.
I'm on a Methadone Patient advisory Group for The College of Physcians and Surgeons of Ontario.We are always looking at ways to help better our methadone programs here in the province of Ontario.
One thing that particularily bothers me is that alot of the clinics here in Ontario won't take patients over 120mgs\day.Most patient do stabilize at or below 120mgs\day but there are some (myself included) that need much more then that.So I have been working on bring this out in the open and getting the doctors to realize that there are a small number of patients that don't start to stabilize until they are into the 200+mgs\day.

We had a few people die a couple years ago.The methadone was diverted and the police came into the clinic and seized the medical records.
After all of this the 2 main clinics in Ontario brought all of their patients down to or below 120mgs.This just causes more diversion and more illict drug use....Thanks for the info......Dave

[leiito]

Hi Dave,

protocols really do differ a lot from country to country but also change with time. Back when I was first put on Methadone I would pick up a prescription and collect 2 week's supply of pills in the pharmacy, then only when too much methadone was perceived to hit the streets they started distibuting it in the clinic and when that didn't help they switched to daily dosages for most clients and eventually pills were replaced with the non-injectable solution. Still, any reasonable person and stable (which usually means he/she has a job) patient can submit an application, make a case for himself and is approved for once-weekly instead of daily regimen and I was issued as much as 6 week's supply for travels.

As for your dosage, I know it depends on many factors but to be on more than 200mg for a long time seems like a lot. Last time I went I was using 1g daily of decent quality H and was put on 60mg, which was quite sufficient if not too much. 200mg+ is equivalent to 40+ pills a day, I mean you'd be eating them with a table spoon.

To the best of my knowledge very few patients require such high dosages in this country and mostly in induction phase only or for what doctors consider hopeless cases. There's a method of figuring out proper dosage of methadone based on purity and quantity of H you use, I forgot how exactly it works, but it seems you are taking your opiates seriously and had to be using massive amounts of H to need such a dose.

On the other hand, you might be looking for a high. I know I enjoyed my 60mg daily methadone dose a lot. but the euphoria was only produced for like a week or so.

Goes without saying, I'm not judging or anything, like every drug methadone has different effects on different people, the other day I read posts from several people claiming Suboxone/Subutex does not block opiate effects for them at any Bupe dosage (they were complaining not bragging). Go figure.