[BCott]

Since I am constantly reading these forums I thought it I was definitely due for a post myself. Well I will give a little background and then post my questions/ thoughts. I discovered my brother (26) was addicted to oxycontin almost 2 years ago. Since I found out I convinced my parents to put him on suboxone instead of rehab. Not sure if that was a good decisions based on how this has gone. Anyway I live in Kansas City and he lives in memphis, so as far as I knew he was doing pretty good on the suboxone, but recenty had a breakdown among many other things. To make the story short after talking to him I found out that his main problem is that suboxone controls his life and he feels like ******** a lot of the time becuase of it. He started at 16 or 24 mg im not exactly sure and he moved to Kansas City 6 days ago. He really trusts me and the plan was that I would completely control his medication and give him what he needs while weening him down because he wouldnt do it on his own. He was in agreement. So he has been here for 6 days and every day is different some bad some good some real bad. BUT i should mention he told me he was taking 4mg 3 times a day until he got here. Since he has been here I have given him 4mg twice a day. He recently got a script of xanax, but I feel like thats another addiction in the making. All he wants to do is take xanax becuase he says he can take a lot less suboxone when he has xanax. Anyways he only had a small script and is out with a little more on the way. He says it only helps if he takes up to 1mg. he is only perscriped .25 or .5. He also has klonopin which I give him sometimes when he doesnt have xanax and he says it doesnt really help as much but I definitely notice a difference in his mood. He seemed aboslutely fine yesterday and then today I gave him exact same amount of medicine, and after I got home from work (4 oclock everydyay) he was drunk as a skunk. He turns to alchohol when he claims he is in pain. He tells me he starts to have withdrawals after only 4 or 5 hours of taking the sub. I find it hard to believe after all the forums I have read. Anyways my big question is.... for the times when you decide to make a jump to a lower dose. How bad are symtoms? How many days will they last or does it take to adjust? What can be taken to ease this (xanax klonipin)? is it okay for him to drink or get drunk? I know I dont want it to be a habit and I wont let him but sometimes is that an appropriate way to deal with his pain. Obviously I cant completely understand because its not me and I wish there was a way without using other drugs but he seems to think xanax is they key! Any information would be very very helpful! Also I am keeping a day to day journal of doses of everything and how he feels and what happens that I may share after a while if he says its okay!

Thanks,
Brad

[Robert_325]

Brad ...... your brother is filling you full of you know what. Subs have a half life of up to 72 hours, it doesn't make you go into w/d after four hours period. Next he is taking WAY too much suboxone. I induct people here at 2-4mg all the time and they are totally clean off the subs too in 8 weeks.

He should NOT be taking all the benzos (xanax and klonopin) with suboxone. That can cause an adverse interaction resulting in respiratory depression. He can stop breathing to be blunt. He is playing you like a fiddle.

Here is a link how I've worked with people on subs on this forum for years. Read it closely. Let me know if you want me to get involved with you and try to help this kid. If he will follow my taper plan he can do it with minimal discomfort. That is a promise. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[overdapills]

i have been on subs for six months now. i started out on 12mg per day, now am taking only 8mg per day. sometimes i can get by with only 4mg, but its tough. i have cravings and cant imagine not taking subs.( i never had cravings when i was taking 12mg.) i am scared of w/d symptons, and the depression i have now is bad enough, if i take any less i am afraid of what may happen. i was taking whatever narcotics i could get my hands on, methadone (my favorite), oxycontin, lortabs, morphine, percs, tylox, just whatever. i was a garbage head. my doc now says he wants me to start weaning. i am definitly not ready. i think i will go to another dr, because i think i need more time to adjust. actually, i think i may need to take subs for the rest of my life. maybe not 8mg per day, perhaps i could get down to 2mg per day, but i will always be an addict and it works so well for me, i dont see the need to "fix" what isnt broken!!!!!!!!! any comments would be greatly appreciated.

[overdapills]

Originally Posted by BCott

Since I am constantly reading these forums I thought it I was definitely due for a post myself. Well I will give a little background and then post my questions/ thoughts. I discovered my brother (26) was addicted to oxycontin almost 2 years ago. Since I found out I convinced my parents to put him on suboxone instead of rehab. Not sure if that was a good decisions based on how this has gone. Anyway I live in Kansas City and he lives in memphis, so as far as I knew he was doing pretty good on the suboxone, but recenty had a breakdown among many other things. To make the story short after talking to him I found out that his main problem is that suboxone controls his life and he feels like ******** a lot of the time becuase of it. He started at 16 or 24 mg im not exactly sure and he moved to Kansas City 6 days ago. He really trusts me and the plan was that I would completely control his medication and give him what he needs while weening him down because he wouldnt do it on his own. He was in agreement. So he has been here for 6 days and every day is different some bad some good some real bad. BUT i should mention he told me he was taking 4mg 3 times a day until he got here. Since he has been here I have given him 4mg twice a day. He recently got a script of xanax, but I feel like thats another addiction in the making. All he wants to do is take xanax becuase he says he can take a lot less suboxone when he has xanax. Anyways he only had a small script and is out with a little more on the way. He says it only helps if he takes up to 1mg. he is only perscriped .25 or .5. He also has klonopin which I give him sometimes when he doesnt have xanax and he says it doesnt really help as much but I definitely notice a difference in his mood. He seemed aboslutely fine yesterday and then today I gave him exact same amount of medicine, and after I got home from work (4 oclock everydyay) he was drunk as a skunk. He turns to alchohol when he claims he is in pain. He tells me he starts to have withdrawals after only 4 or 5 hours of taking the sub. I find it hard to believe after all the forums I have read. Anyways my big question is.... for the times when you decide to make a jump to a lower dose. How bad are symtoms? How many days will they last or does it take to adjust? What can be taken to ease this (xanax klonipin)? is it okay for him to drink or get drunk? I know I dont want it to be a habit and I wont let him but sometimes is that an appropriate way to deal with his pain. Obviously I cant completely understand because its not me and I wish there was a way without using other drugs but he seems to think xanax is they key! Any information would be very very helpful! Also I am keeping a day to day journal of doses of everything and how he feels and what happens that I may share after a while if he says its okay!

Thanks,
Brad

please dont give your bro any more xanax with the suboxone. this can be deadly. my daughter's friend had a stepdad who DIED by taking two xanax with his suboxone, while drinking alcohol. thats a slippery slope he's on, my friend. BE CAREFUL< DONT TAKE CHANCES!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by overdapills

i have been on subs for six months now. i started out on 12mg per day, now am taking only 8mg per day. sometimes i can get by with only 4mg, but its tough. i have cravings and cant imagine not taking subs.( i never had cravings when i was taking 12mg.) i am scared of w/d symptons, and the depression i have now is bad enough, if i take any less i am afraid of what may happen. i was taking whatever narcotics i could get my hands on, methadone (my favorite), oxycontin, lortabs, morphine, percs, tylox, just whatever. i was a garbage head. my doc now says he wants me to start weaning. i am definitly not ready. i think i will go to another dr, because i think i need more time to adjust. actually, i think i may need to take subs for the rest of my life. maybe not 8mg per day, perhaps i could get down to 2mg per day, but i will always be an addict and it works so well for me, i dont see the need to "fix" what isnt broken!!!!!!!!! any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Six months is more than enough time. IF you will follow the taper plan that has worked here for years you'll do fine. Let me know if I can help. I've been doing this a long time. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[BCott]

Believe me I atleast think its mental for the most part. But really does want to get off this stuff and change his life, I just dont know if he has the will power. He obviously has extreme anxiety through this process. Is there anything yall know of that would be safe for him to take in combination of suboxone?

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by BCott

Believe me I atleast think its mental for the most part. But really does want to get off this stuff and change his life, I just dont know if he has the will power. He obviously has extreme anxiety through this process. Is there anything yall know of that would be safe for him to take in combination of suboxone?

It isn't necessary. IF he will follow the instructions he will feel better than he's felt since high school. I'm serious, there areNO w/d problems. This forum if full of people who've done this and are clean today. Everyone on the forum using subs has used my process just about. It's a pain-free taper off the subs once he's inducted properly. Did you read the link? It works. Don't know what else to tell you. You don't take other drugs with subs. But if he doesn't want to get clean and do this I can't help him. No one can. This is his best option. Let me know if you want my help. God bless.

[cheekysod]

i am on subs. bout 4 months now. i have tapered from 14mg, to 1mg over that time. it has all been pretty uneventful, with only minor leg cramps sometimes early in the mornings. not many tho. and its mainly in our heads when we go for a drop in dose. before subs, i used morphine, methadone, any opiate would do really. a habit is a habit.
just so you know from a current user of subs. they are brilliant, and i am nearly off.
good luck to you and your bro

[newyorkgal]

subs ARE brilliant but you have to want to do it. A sister wanting it done isn't always enough. As cheeky says, each drop is relatively uneventful all the way down to almost the end. It's an amazing drug.
Aside from the fact that it's dangerous to mix sub and benzo, it is also VERY dangerous to mix alcohol with benzo, either way you can end up not breathing anymore . 4 mg. 2x a day should be totally fine. You mention he had a "breakdown". Do you mean a "nervous breakdown"? I wonder, if he has psychological or mental issues, perhaps those would need to be addressed by a psychiatrist. This might be a reason he isn't adjusting to the subs and needs to over indulge on alcohol and benzos. If it's not the case, the dose he's on and the taper schedule should work just fine.

[Robert_325]

BCott ..... As I told you on the other thread you and I together can possibly pull this off if you will get him on here to talk with me. I've turned some hardcore people around here and they're clean today. Don't give up on him now! You may be his last hope and this place could be just what he needs.

I'm with you if you want to stick this out. I've never turned my back on anyone who was willing to try. Keep me posted. God bless.

[BCott]

Thanks Robert, I actually just talked to him about this forum and let him read what how people were responding to things I had posted. He seemed to like the idea of a bunch of people who are goin through the same thing talking about it to each other. Anyway I'm gunna be out of town tonight, so I told him to just use my name and start a new thread talking about his personal situation and any questions or concerns he might have, so hopefully he will get around to that tonight.! Thanks!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by BCott

Thanks Robert, I actually just talked to him about this forum and let him read what how people were responding to things I had posted. He seemed to like the idea of a bunch of people who are goin through the same thing talking about it to each other. Anyway I'm gunna be out of town tonight, so I told him to just use my name and start a new thread talking about his personal situation and any questions or concerns he might have, so hopefully he will get around to that tonight.! Thanks!

When he posts ask him to put my name in the title of the thread so I'll be sure to see it. Then I can talk with him about the subs and getting this all turned around for him. I'll be looking forward to speaking with him. God bless.

[kidmonster]

Originally Posted by BCott

Since I am constantly reading these forums I thought it I was definitely due for a post myself. Well I will give a little background and then post my questions/ thoughts. I discovered my brother (26) was addicted to oxycontin almost 2 years ago. Since I found out I convinced my parents to put him on suboxone instead of rehab. Not sure if that was a good decisions based on how this has gone. Anyway I live in Kansas City and he lives in memphis, so as far as I knew he was doing pretty good on the suboxone, but recenty had a breakdown among many other things. To make the story short after talking to him I found out that his main problem is that suboxone controls his life and he feels like ******** a lot of the time becuase of it. He started at 16 or 24 mg im not exactly sure and he moved to Kansas City 6 days ago. He really trusts me and the plan was that I would completely control his medication and give him what he needs while weening him down because he wouldnt do it on his own. He was in agreement. So he has been here for 6 days and every day is different some bad some good some real bad. BUT i should mention he told me he was taking 4mg 3 times a day until he got here. Since he has been here I have given him 4mg twice a day. He recently got a script of xanax, but I feel like thats another addiction in the making. All he wants to do is take xanax becuase he says he can take a lot less suboxone when he has xanax. Anyways he only had a small script and is out with a little more on the way. He says it only helps if he takes up to 1mg. he is only perscriped .25 or .5. He also has klonopin which I give him sometimes when he doesnt have xanax and he says it doesnt really help as much but I definitely notice a difference in his mood. He seemed aboslutely fine yesterday and then today I gave him exact same amount of medicine, and after I got home from work (4 oclock everydyay) he was drunk as a skunk. He turns to alchohol when he claims he is in pain. He tells me he starts to have withdrawals after only 4 or 5 hours of taking the sub. I find it hard to believe after all the forums I have read. Anyways my big question is.... for the times when you decide to make a jump to a lower dose. How bad are symtoms? How many days will they last or does it take to adjust? What can be taken to ease this (xanax klonipin)? is it okay for him to drink or get drunk? I know I dont want it to be a habit and I wont let him but sometimes is that an appropriate way to deal with his pain. Obviously I cant completely understand because its not me and I wish there was a way without using other drugs but he seems to think xanax is they key! Any information would be very very helpful! Also I am keeping a day to day journal of doses of everything and how he feels and what happens that I may share after a while if he says its okay!

Thanks,
Brad

It seems that your bro may have issues manic drepression or something. But 8 mg of suboxone is like max I would say,. But Klonop, etc. Try to get him to just take the subs. But that may be easier said than done Good luck!

[BCott]

I'm just curios. Could my brother replace his suboxone or opiate addiction for a xanax or benzo addiction. Its the only thing he thinks will allow him to take less suboxone and in longer intervals. Besides that I cant seem to reason with him at all. I am just wondering if something like that is possible physically?

[newyorkgal]

A xanax addiction is the worst. Very hard to stop. The taper would work just fine but you'd have to convince him to do it first and he'd have to give up the benzos, especially as a substitute drug, and most definitely he needs to stop the drinking to get drunk. Mixing all that stuff is dangerous. If he had a breakdown and if you can't reason with him, perhaps he needs a medical intervention. Good luck.

[Robert_325]

So who was it that instructed and offered you guidance in reducing your sub dependency? I'm just curious as you've never said. Did you just come up with all these tapering ideas on your own? You started at a very high dose and reduced but how did you learn to do that? God bless.

[michelle54401]

I too was hooked on oxycodone(12-14,30mg.tablets per day) and was put on 28 mgs.of suboxone for 1yr. and half until 2 weeks ago.I had to go off due to a surgery I am haveing and it is very dangerous to be on during any surgery(Thank god, it was not an emergancy sugery).Oh how my heart goes out to your brother, this drug takes 30 whole dats to get completely out of your system, I did mega reasearch on the internet before weening myself down, and joined tons of fourms.They were right when they said the w/ drawls get worse instead of better w/ each passing day unlike oxy's that are out of the system mostly in 3-4 days.Please don't take me the wrong way when i say a few things about suboxone, as I believe it is a good medication for a short period of time, however it is far worse of an addiction than the origainal addiction for what they put us on the suboxone in the 1st place.Why would u put a person on such a dangerous drug that takes 30 days to w/ drawl from compared to 3-4 days and not as dangerous? It's only going from one addiction to another. makes no sense to me. I would say for me even going down 2 mg. was very very hard and I too had to depend on klonopin for help only for a short time as that is also addicting, xanax is far more addicting than klonopin and I would be very careful on how long he uses these but they can come in handy.uboxone is very hard to get off of, and I am still w/ drawling 2 weeks later.My doctor had to put me on a low dose of morphine for my cronic pain and w/ drawls.So now they are not as bad.I would say keep him at a steady dose of suboxone for two weeks then go down by mg. by mg. even if he is only injesting little powder, trust me this works much better, as even as little dose as 2mg. can put u in a major w/ drawl.And the xanax, well keep in mind xanax is only at its peak for 4 hrs. and klonopin is a 6hr. longer lasting and milder med. Talk to the doctor on what is best.Remember this is your body, do major reasearch before taking any drug, then make the choices, to be honest in my opinion, If I knew what i knew now, I would never have went on the suboxone as the withdrawls are way too much worse and last way too long.Tell your brother my prayers are w/ him and to ahng in there. There is a rainbow at the end.Feel free to send me amessage.. I would love to help in anyway I can as I understand fully in which he is going through.GoD Bless.

[BCott]

Seeing your post makes me think its makes perfect sense to just switch back to opiates and withdraw from them instead...???does anyone end up doing that?

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

So who was it that instructed and offered you guidance in reducing your sub dependency? I'm just curious as you've never said. Did you just come up with all these tapering ideas on your own? You started at a very high dose and reduced but how did you learn to do that? God bless.

NYG ...... I didn't expect to get an answer from you to my question. You won't tell the real story. God bless.

[newyorkgal]

I missed the question, Robert. I apologize. (the same way you apologized profusely in email for saying I was someone I wasn't and promising to fix it which you never did). Ah, I see now. I thought it was directed toward the individual poster. NO ONE has a medical degree here and all I said is Xanax is a BAD habit and YOUR taper (YOURS) would work best IF he went along with it???? So what's the question and what advice did I give that I shouldn't have? I will answer anything you ask if its not personal. If you look at Ryan's thread, I sent a post to Jenn in which I did tell "the whole story". I have nothing that I'm ashamed of, nothing I think is wrong, and nothing to hide. I am trying really hard not to engage in any arguments with you and I don't wan't to respond to silly sarcasm. I have no idea why you have SUCH anomosity toward me in particular. ??? I can only guarantee that if I post ANYTHING to ANYBODY a post from you belittling or negating what I say will be the next post. All I ever said and will still say is that with so many addicts of so many types, there are different ways to skin a cat. I don't claim superior knowledge, don't advise on the sub taper specifically, but I do have life knowledge, have no doubt about that. I feel for the ones in great pain, i.e., relatives of addicts and I do have something to say here and there. Please realize we can each have an opinion. You might have helped a million folks, a grant you that. There are other facts and ideas that can be interjected. Not one other person gets so riled up. What is the problem?

[melinda7.5]

Bev
Really, you don't know why Robert would have such animosity to you when you sent out e-mails that are so vial...I have never heard such words from someone who portrays themselves as such a nice person on here.and I still have them in my file so don't try and say you never did anything like that... they had to shut down the e-mail on the forum because you were trying to create such a diversion here...I just have no respect for you and you almost made me not post on this forum anymore...so I just try to over look you now and try to help the great people on here...I like everyone bev but I truly think you are evil...
and you know I don't talk bad about anyone but I have never met anyone like you...you act so nice on here but will stab anyone in the back that may get in your way...
you really are not a nice person

[BCott]

well robert, its not actually me, but my brother. He was started at 8mg pills 3 times a day. On his own over the past year and a half he tapered to 4mg 3 times a day. He recently moved away from my parents house and in with me. And immediatly began taking 4mg twice a day. He has done this now for 13 days and is still complaining of withdrawal pains. He ran out of xanax last night and basically lost his mind. I think he has too many issues to solve and a forum and some type of rehab center is looking like my only option. I was really actually scared he might kill himself. He is getting another subscribtion tomorrow. I have no clue what to do. He may actually need xanax realistically he is at the very least already mentally addicted to that too. Its very scary

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by BCott

well robert, its not actually me, but my brother. He was started at 8mg pills 3 times a day. On his own over the past year and a half he tapered to 4mg 3 times a day. He recently moved away from my parents house and in with me. And immediatly began taking 4mg twice a day. He has done this now for 13 days and is still complaining of withdrawal pains. He ran out of xanax last night and basically lost his mind. I think he has too many issues to solve and a forum and some type of rehab center is looking like my only option. I was really actually scared he might kill himself. He is getting another subscribtion tomorrow. I have no clue what to do. He may actually need xanax realistically he is at the very least already mentally addicted to that too. Its very scary

I wouldn't be as scared trying to help him if I could be right there with him. I've stayed up and stuck it out with lots of people. But honestly I think he DOES need some professional help. If something happens to him during this process I can't do anything. I really advise you to get someone involved locally who is available in the event of an emergency. You guys are in my prayers but there is only so much we can do here. I hope you'll talk to a dr. He's lucky to have you looking out for him. Keep me posted please! I really do care!

Xanax can cause seizures as a very realistic side effect. It would scare you to death if it happened. Please call the dr for guidance. God bless.

[michelle54401]

How is he doing? I was reading, and even tough I did suggest he do take the xanax to help or klonopin,I now see I should have stressed CHECK W/ THE DOCTOR 1ST, the other post are right that combo can bevery dangerous.But also helpfull. I have been thinking about u and your brother ever since I came across this forum, I sure can relate, and still after 2 weeks I am going through w/ drawls.Hang in there, both of you, I say, in my opinion lots of hot bathes for the stiffness and aches and pains, plenty of Ibreprophen(my spelling is off the hook I know), take benzo's(zanax) as prescribed,lots of water, and very important, Vitamins.Also Immodium can help too,all of the above really can help, he is going to have good days or hours then the next w/ out warning feel just awful , but they say it does get better, so get plenty of rest also.Body heals when you sleep.I was on that stuff for over a yr.and never again for that long of time.I will say this about it, It took 99% of my pain away, very strange but that was the only drug that came close forhelping alot for pain relief, if it was not such a danger to take w/ surgery's I would still be on a low dose.Imiss it ONLY for the pain relief it gave me.Good luck and fill free to mail me w/ anything,michellefromwisconsin@yahoo.com