[rubbadub9202]

Hi there, I have been on Suboxone for over a year, and it has helped me a lot. There's only one problem... Waking up sick after taking Suboxone the previous day. It doesn't happen every day, but once in awhile. Other people have reported this problem as well. According to my doctor, along with others, this "sickness" is due to withdrawal. Considering all of the information, I believe the doctors are WRONG, and I will tell you why. I am not a doctor, or a "suboxone hater". I am an experienced opiate addict and Suboxone patient.
Everything was going fine when I was first prescribed Suboxone. I started out on 8mg per day, but I didn't feel that it was enough, so the doctor upped my dose to 12mg per day. This dose seemed to help, until I woke up one morning with my first "Suboxone hangover"... I had the worst headache. I was throwing up, sweating, and sleeping all day, until I suddenly felt better around 8:00pm. Note, I had not taken ANY suboxone on this day. After talking with my doctor, he was quick to tell me that the illness I was experiencing was the effects of withdrawal... But wait, doctors know that it takes about 3 days to enter opiate withdrawal, and I had just taken my dose the day before. You can't enter extreme withdrawal in less than 24 hours. Also, if I HAD been going through withdrawal, then why would my illness suddenly go away for no reason?
From my experience, I believe the doctors are incorrect when diagnosing this illness as "withdrawal".
I would bet that it has something to do with the naltrexone, or simply getting too much Suboxone.
I am still taking Suboxone after more than a year. This morning, I woke up with another suboxone "hangover", the first one I've had in about 4 months... I am getting tired of experiencing this, and would like some real answers. I hope others can relate to this. If so, please reply. We all need to be aware of what others experience while taking Suboxone.

Don't get me wrong, Suboxone is a life saver... But there are MANY unanswered questions about it. There definitely needs to be more studies done on this medication.

PLEASE REPLY!!!

[itsmetoo2]

My heart goes out for your situation. I understand that this feeling is after you sleep. Now the night before, are you drinking? Are you eating chocolate? Using mouth wash? Cough Syrup for sleep?
Start to read the packages of the foods you eat. Many have sugar alcohol, especially chocolate products. Talk to a Dietitian, as this just might be a diet problem. You said that this was not a usual thing. But now the hangovers, and headaches.. That is why I think it is in your diet. Ask your doctor if he/she thinks this is something to explore. Ask your doctor to check your sugar level. Because in the morning before eating your sugar could be at a all time low. Now this can cause a hangover feeling and headaches.

I hope I have given you something to think about.

[intelmetal]

First of all there is no naltrexalone in suboxone, it is naloxone, big difference ! Secondly, you are on too high of a dose of suboxone, 12mgs is quite a bit, maybe for the induction part, but that is rare. 99% of people do not need any more than 8mgs to stabilize. THAT IS A FACT ! You should reduce your dose to 8mgs right away. I personally felt my best when I reduced to 4mgs, 2 in the a.m. and 2 in the p.m. If you were to taper your dose down to 4mgs, you would probably feel better than you do now. Another thing about suboxone is that it has a strange wave or curve effect. I went through this many times. It happens out of the blue, just appears for no reason at all. I was doing a strict routine and it still would rear its ugly head. I have not figured out why this medication does this, but I will. I am researching as much as I can about this wave ( subs having a mind of their own ) effect and will post any info on the subject. Do you plan on staying on subs, or would you like to taper down to nothing ? Let me know. Good Luck !
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

P.S. FYI, I was on 360mgs of methadone per day for years !

[rubbadub9202]

itsmetoo2,
I can guarantee, it has nothing to do with my diet. I eat at least 3 full square meals a day, I don't drink, or use cough syrup, and I'm sure it has nothing to do with my blood sugar. Even if it is because of some off-the-wall reason like you stated, my point still stands, and is simple... There are things we don't know about this medication, and we need to do more studies on Subx.

intelmetal,
Thanks for the FYI on your past use of the drug Methadone...
When it comes to Suboxone, though, I am not currently taking 12mg/day. That was my adjusted dose, over a year ago, when I had first joined the program. I am currently taking 6mg per day, and I am tapering myself. You do not present yourself as any kind of doctor, so I can't really comment on your supposed "facts", but I do know that the dosage instructions from my doctor are very simple. By simply stating that you don't agree with my dosage instructions, you are making my argument a little more concrete, proving doctors and other providers need more information on Suboxone, because there are many things we don't know. Yes, I agree with you about there being some sort of wave effect... It almost seems as though the amount of "naloxone" (I'm sorry for the spelling confusion on my last post, but you obviously knew what I mean) isn't concentrated correctly, or reacts differently at times. Again, thank you for your input.

[intelmetal]

rubbadub9202, I was not trying to come across like a know it all . I am just frustrated with the drug maker telling doctors to prescribe 16mgs to everyone no matter what their situation was. It happened to me. My doctor tried to write me 16mgs per day. Luckily I did my homework ahead of time and convinced her to only give me 8mgs per day. By the time I went to my follow-up appt., I was down to 2.5mgs per day and that was just 2 weeks after my initial visit. I did not tell her that I was tapering and said everything was working out just fine. Well, she wrote me a script for 30 more 8mgs subs and I filled it. As of today I still have 25 8mg subs left out of 45 total. I started on May 4, 2009 @ 8mgs and now I am @ .5mgs and almost ready to drop to .25mgs. I agree that there has to be more studies done on this powerful drug. In Europe they only have .4mg and .8mg pills, that gives you an idea how strong this drug actually is. Just a few crumbs do the trick. It's amazing ! Anyway, I hope you feel better and accomplish your goals. If you need anything, just post.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[rubbadub9202]

intelmetal,
No harm done... I agree with you. It seems as though doctors are always pushing to up the dose on patients, when the dose should be going down. I'm a patient with no insurance. It costs upwards of $290 for a presciption of thirty 8mg tablets, yet my doctor (who happens to be the president of ASAM) continues to suggest increasing the dose.

[fawndog]

rubadub .. I've been on daily suboxone for over 2 years, and frequently (1-2 x / month) experience a horrific suboxone hangover - for me there's no puking (i'm not much of a puker); rather, it's the worst headache that you can imagine. I don't know what a migraine feels like, but I imagine that it's much like this. I agree with you instincts :: this is not withdrawal!!! I know what withdrawal feels like as well as anyone, and this is sure as hell not it. also, I'm certain it's from taking sub. If anyone has any medical insight into why this is happening, your input would be appreciated within this thread. I eat extremely healthy, and do not think this is related to diet or blood sugar.

intelmetal .. I'm not sure I agree with you "99% need 8mg or less" comment. I started 26mg, and have tapered down to 2mg over the past 2.5 years. My doctor wanted to start me at 4-6mg - after a week of trial & error (a horrible week for me), we settled on the most appropriate dose for my situation. My point is .. for a full blown heroin addict, 8 mg of suboxone is like taking a placebo. My experience is not unique, as I know of several people (friends, etc.) who also need a much larger dose initially to curb withdrawal.

My purpose for stating this is not to sound like 'a know it all', but rather to try to get some accurate information out there. Someone who is starting suboxone, or considering starting, should not go into the situation with an a priori assumption that they need 8mg or less. perhaps 80-90% of people do .. but I think the 99% comment was misleading.

[deviation56]

i've been on suboxone for a several months now and although i've only been taking 2mg or less a day (intranasally) for the past few months there was one or two occassions where i took an extra 2mg at night and almost immediately starting throwing up which didn't stop for about 3 days. so it definitely wasn't withdrawls from being on such a small dose, it was the result of taking too much suboxone (about twice my normal dose). so you're not alone. i just had to ride it out and i haven't taken more than my 2mg maintenance dose and it hasn't happened since.

p.s. the reason i insufflate mine because the bioavailability is almost twice as high than if i was to take it sublingually (meaning i only have to snort about 1mg to get the effects of taking a 2mg pill under your tongue). i don't recommend this to anyone but i no longer have a script from my doctor and i am doing this to make the last several pills i have last a bit longer.

[purpledog]

i was a full blown morphine/methadone/heroin addict, and after settling on 12mg of sub i went to 10mg next day.
i agree with intelmetal that not many people need more than 8mg to settle. i had been on methadone for a long time as well, yes full blown addict, and subs are more powerful than you think.
placebo, c'mon pal, i couldnt sleep on 10mg it acts wierd, i needed to drop.
i would hate to think how i would feel on 16 or 26 , that sounds horrific.
it is not correct to say 8mg of sub to a full blown addict would be a placebo, you have your facts way wrong.
purpledog

[purpledog]

deviation 56 dont you just mean snort. c'mon get real.
sublingual would be just as good, its the blood vessels close to the surface, i think you are defeating the purpose.

[bev49]

fawndog, I disagree totally. Regardless of how hard core of a heroin addict you were, those high doses are not necessary. Sub is 50 times stronger than morphine. They reallly attach to those mu receptors. People get sick because they take too much. Its weird because you don't "feel" it and as junkies, we believe if we don't feel something it isnt working. I was on methadone for more years than you are alive probably and still, I started the first day at 16, was jittery, nervous, couldnt sleep. I thought I needed more til someone told me I actually needed LESS. I almost immediately dropped to 8 then 4 then 2 then 1. When I hit 4 I started feeling better. Then there was no difference between 4 and 2 and 1. Am currently on .5 once a day and feel fine on that. In Europe they give .4 and .8, proving what a powerful drug this is. The com pany advising doctors to prescribe high doses is nothing more than a money making scam. Most people can induct on 4 and be fine with that. I'm 60 years old and have been an opiate addict for over 40 years.
Hiya Kiwi

[rubbadub9202]

Just for an update, I am now only taking 2mg per day, the lowest dose I've been on in my 2+yrs of taking it. Nothing has changed, and I am still getting these hangovers about once or twice a month. I have tried everything- changes of diet, consumption of water, taking multivitamins... Still, I am having these hangovers. Too much of a dose? I don't think so... Like I said, I have been taking subs for over 2 years now, and being on my lowest dose ever, I am still getting hangovers, just as often as before. After 2 years, my tolerence must be pretty high. I was used to taking 8mg per day. Now that I'm only taking 2mg per day, I am still getting these hangovers just as often.

[Robert_325]

You've been on it for too long now and it's adversely affecting you. You need to taper down and OFF completely. Then you'll feel fine. I can help you if you want me to. God bless.

[cheekysod]

2 years holy sh!t man thats a long time.!!!

I am planning to be off within 5 months of starting. And from what i have read, even that is a long time.

Wow.