[HappinessInSight]

Robert, I posted in another post regarding my situation, but felt I should start a new thread. I'm one of the countless few who was unfortunately tragically misinformed. I researched the hell out of Sub, except my resources were all "medical" (which a reasonable person typically would see a reliable) but they were dead wrong. I was a prime candidate for either cold turkey or a low-dose, low-length sub treatment.

Anyways--that didn't happen but I can only make the best of the world I live in right? I have been on it since August of 2008 now. My highest dosage was 6mg, but I soon tapered that down to 4mg for purely economic reasons. I was on 4-5mg most of the time. I then realized it would be beneficial to further taper so I got down to 2 mg over the past 3 months or so. This is where I had issues...my doc gave me this rapid taper schedule that would be "cake" (ASSHOLE!) Right...and when I called him back and let him know it wasn't going so well he was not compassionate at all nor understanding. I couldn't tell if he was just truly ignorant of what we go through or just thought I was some junkie. Anyways, I got back on the sub...same dose of 2mg, and decided I would follow a more gradual taper schedule. I discussed this with my doctor and he wasn't on board. He said "you tried to taper and it didn't work. the best thing you can do is to take a pill and just stop" (This is when he thinks I'm taking 4mg a day! What terrible advice!) So, after I realized he's either ignorant or doesn't have my best interest at heart...I decided to go my own path.

I tapered it down slowly and have been taking just .5mg or so. Sometimes I will skip a day not really on purpose. Maybe I just forget when I'm hanging with my girlfriend or I don't bring it when I'm out and I say...you know what? Big deal. It's been fine to miss 1 day. I did experience mild withdrawals going down to this low dosage but I became stabilized now around .5mg...probably .3-.5mg

I took my last .3-.5mg dose 3 days ago. Prior to that, I skipped a day or two during the week also. I started to feel some effects of withdrawals yesterday (back aches/waking up) and so I took the tinieist sliver of sub. It helped some, but didn't totally kill the w/d's. Which was fine--hey I know I gotta pay to play right? So...today it's been manageable but certainly unpleasant and hard to focus at work, back hurts, irritable...wouldn't want to be around my sweetheart of a girlfriend..anyways, do I follow some method of taking tiny crumbs so I don't feel withdrawals, or do I just accept this and go with it as long as I can bear it? I can stand where I am at now, although I don't like it and I can't think of much else other than withdrawals and this sucks and my back hurts and I want to break this window and jump out of here so I can be FREEEEEEEEEEE. Okay, I won't do that though, but I feel that way! I hate being in this office and it makes it very hard to work, very hard to wake up in the morning. But...if I have suffered through to some extent, should I just keep going? My legs starting to get more restless...or should I go with some type of tiny crumbs method?

Robert, can you please elaborate on your method after someone has stabilized at .3-.5mg. I have about 24-32mg of Sub left. I smoke (not tobacco) to help relax also. I may drink a glass of wine at night to calm my nerves, but no heavy drinking. I take tylenol PM last night. I take tylenol or advil during the day and I take Immodium. It still kind of sucks tho but I can't tell if this is gonna get worse or if it's not as bad as I had expected and maybe I can make it without even taking slivers? I can't really take off work...maybe a day or two if I faked a sickness.

Thanks so much in advance, what a godsend you are for so many of us in the time of our most dire need. Oh yeah, my caring doctor that would "Call something in to help me sleep"...yeah he left me in the dark, never called back. The receptionist told me that "Since I am now not on suboxone, he can't really call something in to me." I wanted to yell so much at her!!! Isn't this when I need it the most? Isn't the goal to be off this drug? Don't you understand what I'm going through? No...sadly they don't or they don't care.

--HiS

[Robert_325]

Try some valerian root for sleep. It's cheap at walmart I just bought a bottle (100 ct) for about $4.00. Take 3-4 at a time as needed. They should help a little. Are you exercising? That helps. Hot showers about an hour before bedtime followed up by the valerian root should help it more.

You're doing things pretty close on your own to how you should be doing this. Best advice I think is taper down a little more. You've been on subs for a little longer than we recommend. When that happens sometimes you need to taper down to .25mg or even a little less. At this point we are talking slivers, crumbs, whatever you choose to call it. It's not much for sure. Shows how strong subs are and that it's dumb for people to take so much like many are told to do.

You've been doing exactly correct waiting four days to see what happens. That allows for the long half life of subs. I would try it at .25mg for four days. Let's see how you feel there. Then we'll have you skip days with a plan ... not just trying this or that. You're going to be okay. Let me know how it goes at .25mg. You'll have plenty of suboxone. Don't worry about that. You're almost there. God bless.

[tired2]

Wow I read your post I totally understand what you are saying....my doctor put me on 16mg no induction at all not to mention his plan was for me to get down to 2mg for 1 month then stop cold ....Real nice I would be bouncing off walls...You are not alone it will get better . These IDIOT doctors have no idea what they are doing and it pisses me off...

Robert is a good guy he will be able to help you ...
Take care and remember you are not alone.
Pam

[HappinessInSight]

Well Robert, I followed your method mostly, although a little accelerated by my girlfriend and a promise I made to her. I was at 6mg for a few months then got down to 4mg for about 6 months, then fairly quickly tapered down to 2mg, and then slowly tapered down to .4mg over 2 months or so...and from there I tapered down to .15mg/day ocer a month.

I dissolved a dosage in water to make exact measurements. It's important to be fairly precise towards the smaller end of the dosage spectrum. The process wasn't always thrilling to me, sometimes I felt a little tinge of symptoms but then I would take a very small dosage until I baselined and was able to be maintained without ill effect at the target dosage...typically was 5 days or so and longer towards the end, but I made small jumps of say .05mg each time. Robert's method is probably better but this just seemed to be a good routine for me.

I promised my girlfriend on August 1st I would stop and since that was on a Friday, I decided to stop taking it last Wednesday. Now it has been 6 days and I am okay actually. It wasn't as bad as I expected. I remember when it was when I had got in a little too deep with oxy/hydros.

On a very low dosage it seems the halflife is relatively shorter so I begin to feel the effects within about 24 hours or so. They aren't too bad though and I took 2 immodium just in case on day 2 and took half a xanax and a few glasses of wine and went to sleep. Maybe not for you, but it took the edge off for me. I spent the next day with my girlfriend and we cooked some good food, took a hot bubble bath (yeah sounds lame but my girlfriend is beautiful and it was fun and felt awesome!), drank some wine and just had a pretty good night. My girlfriend and I are really in love and so that really helped take my mind off not feeling well. I really wanted to do this not just for myself but for her too, and I feel that I am stronger than some medicine. I think you have to really want it and if you will take your time it is manageable. It's still not any care-free, no symptoms type of deal--but not nearly as bad as I had thought!

Day 6 is almost done and I'll be aite. I'm tired, I didn't sleep well last night but that I can deal with. I don't have the restless legs too bad or anything and my back is a little sore but nothing too bad and I am a little more sluggish but it's not like that...I literally cannot get out of bed for work feeling. If my girlfriend is motivating me to get going or work, I have been able to just go on about my business..taking immodium and ibuprofen, tylenol, or asprin pretty often. Drank nyquil one night. It wasn't the easiest thing honestly but it's okay and I'm no stronger than anyone else so you all can do it...just really try and get down to a low dosage. I write these words in hopes that someone will read them and see something positive because we all do ourselves a disservice going into this with the worst expectations. Perhaps it won't be nearly as bad as you thought and you may be stronger than you knew =)

It helped me to have a loved one around and if you have someone...I'd reccomend it. My girl didn't evenf ully understand but she was there for me. She honestly didn't really notice the effects in me too much days 3-5. We made love, we hung out, laughed, shoot she even dragged me to a concert Sunday night and we had a great time. I have been out to eat at mexican restaurants and drank margaritas, we went to eat at another restaurant and got some chineese...so I have an appetite and basically just trying to play it off, not focus on it, and just go through with each day finding energy in the fact that you are moving closer to being totally free of this drug. It was a blessing but also a curse, but you can beat it. I know I will. I will just make sure to keep my mind right in the months and years that follow, for I am still just in my twenties and I know I have much life ahead.

I'll check back in sometime later and let you guys know how I feel. It's do-able. Seriously =) You can even manage to laugh and have a good time sometimes...

[HappinessInSight]

Short version of my story: Huge difference between jumping off at .5mg and .15mg! One really sucked and the other is do-able! It makes that big of a difference at the lower dosages, so don't give up, just keep doing it as long as needed. Once your dose is so low, the medicine goes very far anyways so it's much cheaper.

[Robert_325]

Congratulations on your success. If I could go back and re-write my sub taper plan I would definitely add bubble baths with your significant other and a few glasses of wine. That sounds like a good fun way to get your mind of days 3-5. Nice way to spend a few days for sure. I'm glad it's going so well for you. God bless.

[blackrainbow]

HappinessInSight


Hello,

I am blackrainbow..Fairly new to the forum...Read your posts.. I am happy for you! Sounds like you have a very positive outlook and support. From what I read it seems like you will kick this head on soon and are doing well already. "On your way to happiness" Take Robs advice.."He helped me and from what I have seen many more" Take Care we support you!

[killer-oxy]

Dear happiness in sight and 2tired - just wanted to say that your post is uplifting for SURE as well as YES! Doctors have NO CLUE about this drug!

I was put on 32mg's a DAY in the beginning and I don't believe I ever took or needed to take that much! It's INSANE!!!!

That was in April. I am starting the taper and onto 4 mg tomorrow.

I NEED all the help I can get as I live alone and it SUCKS so BAD. When you
don't like yourself to start with it doesn't give you much to work with.....

Keep up the great recovery. It gives me hope. And sadly reminds me just how alone I am....

[killer-oxy]

Happinessinsight said:

I'm one of the countless few who was unfortunately tragically misinformed. I researched the hell out of Sub, except my resources were all "medical" (which a reasonable person typically would see a reliable) but they were dead wrong. I was a prime candidate for either cold turkey or a low-dose, low-length sub treatment."
===========

That is EXACTLY how it should have been for me as well and also all my researce was of the wrong kind.

[DirtSurf]

hi this is my first time posting on this forum. i'm not too familiar with forums to begin with so try to bear with me. first off i wanted to say good job to the success you guys are having. it's good to hear some posative things are coming of this drug. my question is mainly for robert_325. i've read countless horror stories about the suboxone and then came upon you and your tapering mehtod which seems to help people get down to pretty low doses. your posts give me lots of hope and is the reason i signed up and am posting. i am on 8mg's a day for the past 5 days tomorrow will be day 6. i don't know what i should do, stay the course, get dependent on this drug, or call it quits and just man out the rest of the withdrawals. btw, at 8mg i feel perfectly fine, i inducted like you said and didnt go any higher than 8mgs. i'm just a little uneasy about all of this and so close to throwin in the towel and just taking the withdrawals. Any help and or suggestions from you would be much appreciated, thank you so much for your time and patience with me and everyone you've helped.

[purpledog]

i would guess the next bit of advice you would get from robert was to drop from 8 to 6 mg. i have recently done this pal and didnt even know the difference.
if you have been 5 or 6 days on 8, you will easily be able to drop to 6. and by then someone else will fill you in. next drop is after 4 clear days on the lesser dose. some people go a bit slower. everyone is different.
robert has been busy.,but im sure he will pop in and give you an answer.
im the late nite owl from down under.
still a newby, 5 weeks on subs, but ive come down from 12 to 4 in that 5 weeks. not bad i think.
see ya
purpledog

[saggle]

Hi all,
I've been taking suboxone for about a year after a year of abusing oxycodone. I don't even remeber the dose I stabilized at with all I've been through with my wife almost leaving me and a bunch of other bad stuff going on in my life. I got down to I think 2mgs a day (1mg x2), but my life got so screwed up that I just said f&*k it and went right back up to 8mgs a day (2x4mgs), I've been on that for at least 6 or 7 months. Basically I break an 8mg pill in half and have the first piece in the morning and the second piece in the afternoon.

I really want to get my life back...I need help...badly. I have access to about 80 more 8mg sub pills and would like to get off of them. Can I do it without going through too much pain? I am a father of two very young kids (4 and 1) and I pretty much take care of them and work full time. I feel really stupid for letting it get to this and I break down and cry fairly often for how out of control my life has gotten.

I need a good long slow taper plan I would imagine...could somebody please help me with some thoughts on how I should attack this? I'm scared to death of what I have done to myself, especially after reading some of the posts on here about severe withdrawls after jumping off at even 0.5 mgs...I feel so far from 0.5 right now it scares me.

Sorry for the long post. One more thought though and I'm pretty sure you all will scold me for even thinking about this. It sounds like the long half life of suboxone among other things is what makes it so hard to come off of after being on it for more than a few months. For someone who has been on it for a year or more.... what if one were to go back on a low dose of Oxy for maybe 10 days to let the suboxone leave you system, and then re-stabilize on the lowest dose possible of sub, and from there do a proper taper like Robert has helped so many do. Would the 10 days off of sub be like re setting the clock on it? I know it would be irresponsible for anybody to recommend this and it definitely wouldn't be for everyone, but for someone who just REALLY wants to get off it all and isn't scared of the relapse necessarily? Any thoughts?

Not saying I'm going to do this but it was a thought....I'd rather just taper down and be done with it. Thanks for you time everyone and God Bless!

[RubyDean]

One thing I have found, and this may not be the case for everyone, but for me taking Tylanol PM especially, or any over the counter sleep meds makes it much harder for me, and really increases my restless leg and arm problems. Like I said, it may not be for everyone, but for me it makes it much worse. Therefore I do not take it to help me sleep.

[DirtSurf]

Hey purpledog, thanks for the response, i know robert must be super busy. idk im just getting pretty down about this whole suboxone thing and not sutre if i'm gonna continue. i feel wonderful, like im normal again but im just dreading the 15 day withdrawals people have been saying about this stuff. today i went to 6mg split dose. im just curious on what would happen if i just cold turkey it from here on out. my oxycodone habit was moderate, doing 2 80's a day for a few months. before that it was vicodens and perks under 80mg a day of that. all and all it was off and on for about a year.

So, would it be a bad idea to just quit the subs now, like today, before i get to much more in my system? and just handle the withdrawals? how severe you think they gonna be? I know that a tough question and its different for everyone but any input would be very helpful. If i end up quitting them today i'll be sure to let you know how it goes, guinea pig style. much aloha to everyone.

[RubyDean]

dirtsurf, i know how you feel, and that this can seem scary at times to come off subs, but I think you are fooling yourself by saying a 2 80mg oxy per day habit is 'moderate'.
you will have serious withdrawal coming off that alone, now granted it will just be 5-8 days of hell, but after doing some suboxone (and I'm not sure how much or how long you were doing it for) could really screw things up and potentially make this much harder than the cold turkey alone from the oxys. If you are dead set on it and have the strength and time, go for it, but I would rather taper off suboxone in a matter of weeks. Just my thoughts man, but I totally understand your concern and reservations about all this. I have been on subs for 6 months, and I am finally down to .25mgs, and should be done in a week or so. I did not know about the taper plan till 2 months ago. All the will.

I'm just about done with my sub taper that Robert suggested. I started Sub almost 45 days ago. I am down to .25mg & I'm ready to jump in about 3 or 4 days.
Your gonna have some pretty sh!tty W/D's if you jump off now , my friend. Sub is very powerful. More powerful than I thought is would be, for sure.
If you cut down to 6mg for 4 days, then 4mg for 4 days, ect. just like Robert said to do, you will breeze thru this with hardly NO withdrawals.
Hey, toward the end, you will feel kinda out sorts a little. Maybe some stomach grumbles, some loss of sleep, ect. But if you jump at 8mg right now, you will feel fine for about 24 hrs or so.. By then most of the Bupe is out of your system. Then your body is going to start screaming for some kind of opiate. These horror stories that you have read are unfortunately from people who have either not tapered correctly, or jumped off at too high a dose. Robert says jump at .25mg OR .15mg. He advises strongly against jumping off at any higher dose. Do yourself a huge favor, me amigo. Ride this sh!t storm out nice & easy. Don't jump off a cliff just for the sake of it. Take the long way down, my friend.

Take Care,

Gary

[DirtSurf]

hey rubydean thanks for the response. i ended up stopping the subs that day at 3mg. i was only on the subs for a total of 6 days at 8mg for the first 4 days then 6mg one day then 3mg the final day. i thought i was gonna hit a brick wall pretty hard 3-4 days after stopping the subs due to the long half life. so i tried to prepare as much as possible by surfing and swimming and drinking plenty water, eating good and getting my head right. so the third day came and i woke up felt pretty good actually so i went about my day normally, no real cravings or anything. fourth day which was yesterday still expecting to feel the withdrawals but didnt really feel anything physically, i was still able to get some good sun and good surf in. idk if that played a roll in making me not feel the withdrawals as much but i think it helped a lot. today is now the fifth day and my body feels a little sore but nothing major at all, mentally i was kinda craving but tried to keep busy to get my mind off. writing this now i hope im in the clear, we'll see how i feel tomorrow. i was honestly expecting a couple days of hell at least but it didnt really seem to come. i think staying active and getting in the ocean a lot really helped me physically and mentally.

I think maybe in my case i wasnt on the subs long enough for them to fully get into my system (6 days total) and for me to build a tolerence but just long enough for the oxycodone to get outta my system, so maybe thats how come i didnt withdrawal. not sure tho. i think having youth and the beautiful ocean in my back yard also played a helpful roll in all of this, which i feel very blessed to have. I'm not gonna lie tho, the people who say "getting off is the easy part, staying off is the hard part" they are so right. i crave hard but just try to take it day by day.

well im sorry for rambling so much but im just happy how this all turned out and am very thankful for this site and the community of posative people here, without you people idk where or what id be at right now. Ruby and gary i wish you guys much luck and i know you can do it, just keep your mind and body busy, thats what i think worked for me. keep at it and stay strong, much mahalo and ALOHA!

[RubyDean]

dirtsurf, that is great news man. i really think the sun on your skin and in your eyes can help out a lot, not to mention swimming and surfing in the ocean, and being on the beach.
for me, and many others, it is when we disconnect with mother nature that we can start to really suffer consequences and for me seemed to take a turn for the worse and sin was innevitable.
stay connected and things will get better. i often wish i was near the ocean, i first learned to surf in lahaina, and later got married there. i am happy for you. keep us posted when you can. all the will.

[kimmie1]

Sounds like you all are doing really great. I can't wait. Printed COWS sheets yesterday. Going to the Dr. Friday to start with my new plan. I just want to quit methadone. I have all my tools in place. I don't know what to go with, just weaning slowly or trying suboxone? Any suggestions? Kimmie1