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please help need advice on suboxone!!!
  1. #1
    sassyfrassy is offline New Member
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    Default please help need advice on suboxone!!!

    i have been on suboxone for a little over a week, i am ill from it, canstant nausea and vomiting, my dr thinks that i am not taking enough and keeps increasing my dose, he thinks that my withdrawls are still not being treated so i am vomiting and getting sick, therefore that is why he keeps increasing my dose, but i never had this problem when i went thru withdrawls before which i told him, i had everything else but vomiting. it is so bad that my stomach feels as if someone puched me and i told him this but he is convinced i need more suboxone. It's now to the point where the taste of it or the thought of having to dissolve it makes me gag. Can anyone help with some advice, i know that this can be a side effect, but my dr doesnt seem concerned,i am concerned because i never had these 2 symptoms while i withdrew before, unmedicated. Can anyone tell me if this happened to them, does it get any better, will i stop getting sick from suboxone, is there anything i can do about the awful taste????

    thanks

  2. #2
    mpvt is offline Platinum Member
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    What drug were you addicted to and for how long????What dose of suboxone are you on???Are you taking any other meds????.....Dave

  3. #3
    sassyfrassy is offline New Member
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    quote:Originally posted by mpvt

    What drug were you addicted to and for how long????What dose of suboxone are you on???Are you taking any other meds????.....Dave

    i was on percocet and vicodin on and off for 3 years, i was at about 100mg-150mg a day( i only used OC's if i could not get percs and vics , but i only used them a few times and those few times, i used 20mg, about a 1/4 of and 80), and no i am not on anything else right now, i will start lexapro soon, the first day i was at 4mg, then 8mg, now he wants me at 8mg in morning and another 4 at night, i am so sick from taking it and it tastes awful, i know i should probly be a little more grateful but god does it make me ill!!!!!!

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    mpvt is offline Platinum Member
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    It sounds like your dose is to high.Have you tried just taking it once a day.The halflife of buprenorphene is 48-72 hours so that's why you should only need to take it once a day.Some people even take it every other day.What about trying 8mgs once a day for a few days and see how you feel.If you start to feel better then you know for sure the dose was to high.Don't be fooled by low doses as buprenorphene is 40 times stronger than morphine and you really don't have a very high tolerance and that's why I think your feeling so sick.Good luck.....Dave

  5. #5
    metta is offline New Member
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    I totally can relate. I actually had that same experience, but I puked until I thought I would die. I did not wait 48-72 hours after I had taken my last oxy though. The suboxone has a drug called naltrexone and it is similar to narcan(the drug the wake you up with if you o.d.)What happens is the naltrexone conflict MAJORLY with any opiates you have in your system. My Dr also increased my dose. I went back to doing my drug of choice because it was so bad.

    The second time I tried it I was in withdrawel, and I had been off oxi's for like 4-5 days, and it worked so well. It actually made every symptom go away. I now realize that the reaction was because I had been taking so much for so long that I had to wait a while to get it out of my system. I also realized suboxone only works if you are in withdrawel. You might be alergic, but I think you are going through what I did. The brihgt side is suboxone pushes the stuff out of you FAST (like a week), it is actually used in rapid detox. Hope you feel better.

  6. #6
    addict doc is offline New Member
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    The narcan is not absorbed through mucous membranes, and has no role at all when subox is used as directed. It is in subox to prevent people from injecting the drug, because if they did, the narcan would be active and cause withdrawal. Subox is not at all similar to rapid opiate detox (which I used to do-- now I just do subox inductions). With rapid detox, the person is anesthetized and given progressively higher doses of narcan, and then often a chip of naltrexone is implanted before they wake up. Rapid detox is forced withdrawal, over a very quick period of time. Receptors are completely blocked with a pure antagonist.

    With subox, the goal is to shift over to an equi-potent opiate, to PREVENT withdrawal. That is why a person ideally is on 30 mg or less of methadone, and/or is in significant withdrawal, before the induction.

    Sassy, in my opinion your dose of subox is significantly lower than it should be, and you are in withdrawal from not enough bupe. If you don't want to take my word for it, check out the boards related to subox users (there are a few of them out there). The standard induction is 8 mg the first day, and 16 mg the next day, and then further adjustments if the person is still feeling sick--usually adjustments upward. The agonist opiate effect doesn't max out until about 20 mg or so.

    The doc discussions report the best luck with rapid increases to 16 mg. I wonder why your doc started you so low, because the course everyone has to take includes flow charts, etc, explaining the reason for going to 16 mg. Essentially it would be like giving you one vicodin, and expecting to not get sick.

    Don't worry about the vomiting. One interesting thing about withdrawal is that it can vary with different opiates, different extra meds one is on, etc. Morphine W/D usually has a lot of nausea. Fentanyl and >>>>>> have more muscle 'kicking'. Throw a bit of subox into the mix, and the W/D symptoms change.

    People often try to reduce the subox dose to save money. At 8 mg, it really isn't doing either of its jobs: there is not enough opiate activity to reduce cravings, and there is enough receptor blocking to prevent use of other substances.

  7. #7
    missmegan is offline New Member
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    Default me too!!!

    I can totally relate to you!! I thought I was pregnant for the longest time and found out that it was really just the suboxone that was making me vomit and my doctor just keeps incresing my dose

  8. #8
    files45 is offline New Member
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    this is from another broad so please read it carefully.

    It is EXTREMELY important to start at either 2 mg/bid or 4mg/bid and to not exceed 4 mg/bid during the first 2-3 days. That should cover your withdrawals, and in addition, starting that low means you will have zero problems reducing your dose after 2-3 days and tapering down before you quit. For some reason not fully understood, people who start at 16 mg/day or higher have extreme difficulty tapering down, whereas those who start at 8 mg/day or lower usually feel no or little w/d effects when tapering.

    Don't be surprised, by the way, that your doctor wants you on more. He has taken only an 8-hour online course to qualify for Suboxone prescribing rights, and in any event, most doctors know very little about Sub and its effects. They usually way-overprescribe, which then builds a rapid dependence on the Sub in their patients. Many docs will also insist that Sub is not addictive, whereas in the real world we know this is absolutely untrue.

    The other thing to remember is, use Sub for no more than 7 days or so, and your post-Sub withdrawal effects will be minimal. Every day extra that you use it will be another 2 days of withdrawal, or so I've found -- and much worse w/d at that.

    I've used Sub twice. The first time, I started at 32 mg/day, quickly tapered to 16 mg/day, but then had an agonizing time tapering below that. I was on Sub for a couple of months, and it took me almost a month when I finally quit to feel okay again. I went 14 days without sleep during that post-Sub withdrawal, and the depression and lethargy was paralyzing.

    The second time I took sub, for roughly the same size habit (post-operative pain meds), I started at 4 mg/bid and after 2 days went down to 2 mg/bid. By day 7 I was down to 1 mg/day and by day 13 I was off. I never felt any reduction in dose, and only suffered a week or so of relatively-mild insomnia, weakness, and leg-shaking at night. I was able to move my whole house and family into a new house one week after quitting sub -- something I couldn't have even dreamed of doing the first time I quit sub.

    But if I had it to do over again (God forbid), I'd take the sub for no more than 5 days. That's plenty of time for most of the drug-of-choice to have left your system, plus the sub you take on your last day will linger with you for another 2-3 days. If I did that, I'm sure I'd be feeling fine in probably less than a week.

    There is alot of people on Opiate detox recovery that can help you....

    REMEMBER LESS IS MORE I will keep you in my prayers please not all drs, know what they are doing.
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  9. #9
    rwilliamson1 is offline New Member
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    I have heard of others that have had this reaction to the suboxone and have had success with the nausea ad vomiting being eliminated by switching to subutex. They say the naltrexone has no effect taken orally but every drug has some effect when ingested and you may be sensitive to it.
    Also, I agree that less is more with this drug. with your limited habit 8-12 mg of either sub should be more than enough for the first day or two and then you should be able to drop 2mg a day every other day. Remember, the MDs and the drug company derive no benefit of you quiting the drug soon if even ever!

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    rubbadub9202 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by addict doc View Post
    The narcan is not absorbed through mucous membranes, and has no role at all when subox is used as directed. It is in subox to prevent people from injecting the drug, because if they did, the narcan would be active and cause withdrawal.....
    Okay, "doc", but suboxone does not contain narcan.

  11. #11
    rubbadub9202 is offline New Member
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    I have been on Suboxone for over a year, and I can relate to what you are going through. Everything was going fine when I was first prescribed Suboxone. I started out on 8mg per day, but I didn't feel that it was enough, so the doctor upped my dose to 12mg per day. This dose seemed to help, until I woke up one morning with my first "Suboxone hangover"... I had the worst headache. I was throwing up, sweating, and sleeping all day, until I suddenly felt better around 8:00pm. Note, I had not taken ANY suboxone on this day. After talking with my doctor, he was quick to tell me that the illness I was experiencing was the effects of withdrawal... But wait, doctors know that it takes about 3 days to enter opiate withdrawal, and I had just taken my dose the day before. You can't enter extreme withdrawal in less than 24 hours. Also, if I HAD been going through withdrawal, then why would my illness suddenly go away for no reason?
    From my experience, I believe the doctors are incorrect when diagnosing this illness as "withdrawal".
    I would bet that it has something to do with the naltrexone.
    I am still taking Suboxone after more than a year. This morning, I woke up with another suboxone "hangover", the first one I've had in about 4 months... I am getting tired of experiencing this, and would like some real answers. I hope others can relate to this. If so, please reply. We all need to be aware of what others experience while taking Suboxone.

    Don't get me wrong, Suboxone is a life saver... But there are MANY unanswered questions about it. There definitely needs to be more studies done on this medication.

    PLEASE REPLY!!!


  12. #12
    bozo666 is offline New Member
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    Default stupid doctors as usual

    I have been using suboxone recreationally for several months now and have used it every day for many of those occasions. The nausea is because your getting TOO MUCH suboxone and it is completely disturbing your digestive system. Lemme guess, if you dont eat or drink anything you dont get nauseated...but about 1-3 hours after eating/drinking you feel terrible UNTIL you completely empty your stomach by puking it up. There is also bad heartburn and when you vomit it is very acidic and brownish colored...but like nasty stomach acids and whatever you ate. Thats from too much and not from withdrawal. Another thing this drug does that doctors cant/wont get "duhh, because they dont ********ing take it, we do!" it a sharp pain in the elbows and arms...especially in the mornings...for the first few weeks of suboxone use.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubbadub9202 View Post

    I have been on Suboxone for over a year, and I can relate to what you are going through. Everything was going fine when I was first prescribed Suboxone. I started out on 8mg per day, but I didn't feel that it was enough, so the doctor upped my dose to 12mg per day. This dose seemed to help, until I woke up one morning with my first "Suboxone hangover"... I had the worst headache. I was throwing up, sweating, and sleeping all day, until I suddenly felt better around 8:00pm. Note, I had not taken ANY suboxone on this day. After talking with my doctor, he was quick to tell me that the illness I was experiencing was the effects of withdrawal... But wait, doctors know that it takes about 3 days to enter opiate withdrawal, and I had just taken my dose the day before. You can't enter extreme withdrawal in less than 24 hours. Also, if I HAD been going through withdrawal, then why would my illness suddenly go away for no reason?
    From my experience, I believe the doctors are incorrect when diagnosing this illness as "withdrawal".
    I would bet that it has something to do with the naltrexone.
    I am still taking Suboxone after more than a year. This morning, I woke up with another suboxone "hangover", the first one I've had in about 4 months... I am getting tired of experiencing this, and would like some real answers. I hope others can relate to this. If so, please reply. We all need to be aware of what others experience while taking Suboxone.

    Don't get me wrong, Suboxone is a life saver... But there are MANY unanswered questions about it. There definitely needs to be more studies done on this medication.

    PLEASE REPLY!!!




    First of all the suboxone consists of buprenorphine and naloxone. It's NOT naltrexone. That is a totally different drug. The "narcan" another poster was referring to is what the naloxone is sometimes called.

    You could very well be reacting to the 12mg/3mg dose of suboxone. It does have 3mg of naloxone in 12mg of suboxone and some people react adversely to that amount. I would need to see how you do on a taper to know if it was the naloxone or not for sure. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    blackrainbow is offline Junior Member
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    Unhappy Please Help...!!!

    I need help in this matter as well... I am not sure if I want to go back to my doctor as he might have only small experience with prescribing suboxone and dealing with addiction. My individual case is I am 23 been taking percocet on and off for about a year and half... I was on it for about 3-4 months straight in the beginning after a really bad car accident. I tried stopping and felt the withdrawal sickness, I just had the sweats, runny nose, hot and cold, the restless leg syndrome all night real bad stuff. By day 2 it felt really as if I was losing my mind mentally. i really was surprised so I decided to take easy street and continue on the pain meds just cause it was easier. After that I tried quitting a few times at least 6 or more and always ended up getting more percs and vicodins. I havent taken vicodin in 9 months and have tapered down to 5mg percocet every 6 hours as needed to keep myself stable and normal. I really thought somehow I was dealing but after now its been a year and half and I am left completely not in control anymore. I feel like I surrender myself to these painkillers and I am giving in. Everytime I put up to try and stop, i lose and end up back at square one all over again. I finally decided a week ago i was determined to stop for good. I go to school and I will be finished soon and I also start my new job. My goal is to get my life on track again and never have to take another opiate pill again! So I found a doctor that takes my insurance and was able to prescribe suboxone. I found information on the heretohelp.com which they helped me get a appt and worked hard to find someone who wasnt going to cost me an arm or a leg. Not yet anyways... My doctor said my case is minor and should clear up very easy so he prescribed me the suboxone 8mg taken once a day. I heard they start off heavy drug users on that set dosing. I have never taken >>>>>> or morphine only took my vics and percs... Meanwhile the cost of suboxone is ridiculous and soooo expensive! With as much as my one script costs I could have bought a year supply of percs. My doctor said they cost about $200. I dont know any pharmacy in cali that charges that cheap for suboxone it runs for $400 plus for my script. So anyone know of a reasonable pharmacy please feel free to message me or reply. Next goes the real question my doctor gave me my script while I was still taking my percocets. He explained how to take my suboxone and said no side effects etc etc... So last night I took my last 5mg percocet and today decided when I started feeling withdrawal I was going to start my suboxone treatment. I waited all day today and didnt start feeling off till about 6 or so. Which was pretty good I thought. My pharmacist told me to take half as my case wasnt as sever as some. Now, I just got done throwing up in the bathroom for the hour. I took 4mg and am experiencing the drunk feeling with heavy nausea... Whats going on, I don't personally think that I took too little. I never have had withdrawals like this there was never any nausea and I had been without for a week before maybe longer. so whats the deal is this just the beginning or is it a side effect. or did I not wait long enough to take the sub? I waited probably 16-18 hours after my last pill... I already am feeling indifferent and this nausea was not what I was expecting...
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    blackrainbow is offline Junior Member
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    and just for the record i dont know why anyone would want to use suboxone for recreation it doesnt do anything for you except cutting the withdrawals and starting a new symptom wicked nausea! lol sorry just got back from the restroom again this is gonna be a long week

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    You're in precipitated w/d my friend. You need to stop the subs right now. Let me help you do this right. I can make this SOOO easy for you. Stop taking ANYTHING until tomorrow and don't take anything until we agree it's time. You took the subs too soon, the wrong way, I don't care what your dr told you. He obviously doesn't know JACK about using subs. Ask around the forum. If you do as I ask you then this will be easy. You are really not even using enough pills where I would have suggested subs but you are where you are. Listen to me and you'll be okay. STOP everything until tomorrow and we can start over doing this right. When I do the induction you'll feel GREAT in less than two hours. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    blackrainbow is offline Junior Member
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    Lightbulb

    Today I have not taken anything... I woke up this morning with a pretty bad headache.. Not in the best of moods but I haven't taken any suboxone yet for the day. Honestly I am afraid to. After yesterdays incident of vomiting and feeling dizzy/drunk but not in a good way. So any advice on whats next? What should I do?..... Feeling sad Thanks

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Hey my friend. I will help you with this don't worry! I do this every day. It's important that you feel like total dog doo doo before this induction begins. You should be sick as a dog from w/d. Then I will turn you around in two hours I promise. Keep posting to me over the next several hours with updates. If you haven't taken anything since yesterday, no subs or no pain pills, we should be able to get you straightened out by this evening at the latest. Just hang in there and communicate with me. Most important don't take ANYTHING, not even an advil, until we agree that's what you should do. It will be okay don't worry! I won't abandon you. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    blackrainbow .... what happened to you dude???? Been looking for you all afternoon/evening. You okay? God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  20. #20
    blackrainbow is offline Junior Member
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    Arrow

    I am back. Had a long day today and wasn't around much. I took the suboxone yesterday evening about 6pm. Right now it's 11pm here the next day. All day I felt really ********ty. I had a massive headache
    and felt nauseated till about 5pm or so and I ate dinner but couldn't keep anything down all day today. I have NOT taken any suboxone today. As the day progressed I felt more normal. I am not experiencing any insane withdrawals yet. I wonder if this is normal. I am going to be taking my normal sleep meds and then going to see how I feel in the morning. What is induced withdrawal/detox? How is it done and what is this 2 hours you speak of? I will check this in the morning. Thanks goodnight Evryone!
    "I should prob let you know Rob, I am a chick not a DoOd! LOL

  21. #21
    intelmetal is offline Senior Member
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    Default Blackrainbow

    First of all, you were inducted the wrong way, too soon after taking pain pills. Also, your habit was so small that you probably should not have even tried suboxone, period. On top of that, you took way too much for your situation. It's like shooting a mouse with M1A1 Tank ! I bet you could be inducted properly with 2mgs or less. Suboxone is so much more powerful a drug than most people realize. When I tapered off subs, I could feel .25mgs BIG TIME ! That is only 1/32 of a 8mg suboxone. And I was a heavy methadone abuser. Do the research and you will see that I am telling you the truth. Better yet, just listen to Robert's advise and follow instructions. You will be FLOORED !
    IWANTOUT

    to live my life and to be free !

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    blackrainbow ... intelmetal hit it pretty right on. This would have been so easy if we had done the induction together. Talk to me today. Let's figure out the best thing for you to do. I'll watch for you but I do have a couple things to do this afternoon. So get back to me asap. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    blackrainbow is offline Junior Member
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    I am back today... I woke up a lil while ago and felt like sleeping in. The headache is gone and the nausea i hope... So when should the suboxone wear off. I had only taken half of the 8 so 4mg not yesterday but the day before at 6pm. I am feeling a lil funny now though, its noon here. When am I going to be in full withdrawal from the painmeds>? I know my doctor obviously just wanted the money because that is way too much dosing for someone such as myself and my case. I was completely honest too... Which is funny cause I thought for him to properly treat me he would need to know every lil detail of my life. So I am just gonna wait and figure out what to do. I listened I havent taken a sub since the other night and well my last perc was 3 nights ago the day before I took the sub. Haven't gone in sickness mode yet but I am sure its coming. Am feeling severe neck pain and some in my leg where it was messed up from the accident. So anyways feel free to comment I will be around

  24. #24
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Default Outstanding!!!

    blackrainbow .... Hey girl! It sounds like you are doing wonderfully. You have done terrific following what I asked you to do since we first talked. That makes it so much easier being in my place. I couldn't ask for anyone to be more cooperative. Thanks for doing as I have asked.

    What is happening here is that it seems you are not even really getting all that sick and it's been close to 48 hours since you took the sub dose (one time) and almost three days since you took a perc. I think that is absolutely outstanding.

    Please pay close attention to what I'm advising you to do here. You have done SO WELL since you stopped taking anything after the precipitated w/d from the subs that you shouldn't even plan on going back to the subs. If you were going to feel bad/severe w/d symptoms you would have been feeling them by now. I realize you don't feel perfectly and that you're having some w/d symptoms but it isn't anything like it should be for you to do a suboxone induction. I can help you for another few days and this detox will be over for all practical purposes.

    I understand that you've got the money invested in subs and the sub dr and all that stuff. But I can have you feeling like a new person in less than another week and you won't even need the subs. There is no reason to take them now at this point. I was hoping this would happen but I didn't want to say anything to that effect and get your hopes up until I saw happen what has happened. You just DON'T need any suboxone. I promise you that I'm right! You've been so blessed that you should be ecstatic!

    If you would do this for me please tell me exactly any and all w/d symptoms you've been having since that sub dose. Be specific. I'm going to tell you how to handle the symptoms without getting you off on another drug (as in the suboxone). I'll be watching for your reply. I'm very happy for you! God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    blackrainbow is offline Junior Member
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    Thumbs up

    That's really good to hear. I suffered pretty severe withdrawal in the past and I haven't experienced anything nearly close to that extent yet. Since the sub I felt sick, dizzy, vomiting and all around like dirt. Today neck pain some leg pain which is from the car accident and I am not on vics or percs it gives me discomfort. Kinda lightheaded, no more nausea today. Mentally I am not bad off yet i don't feel like I want a sub not after LOL, and I don't want a painkiller either at this point. So I am in a place where I fee anxious... You know like what happenes next, Am I gonna be sick soon? I got used to feeling so sick without my meds?.... This is new to me. Luckily I only bought 6 subs I figured at 8mg dosing they would last awhile and that little bit costed me $60 dollars which isn't alot to me if I get my life back... I am starting to feel a lil bit positive that I may be able to kick this habit. Thanks Rob! for your help and support and to everyone else here. Truly makes a difference to know I am not alone. I will be back......

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    blackrainbow is offline Junior Member
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    Exclamation

    Oh yes, one small symptom i forgot is I feel a lil bit sweaty... My hands are slightly clammy. Just today though not having any chills yet.

  27. #27
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackrainbow View Post
    : That's really good to hear. I suffered pretty severe withdrawal in the past and I haven't experienced anything nearly close to that extent yet. Since the sub I felt sick, dizzy, vomiting and all around like dirt. Today neck pain some leg pain which is from the car accident and I am not on vics or percs it gives me discomfort. Kinda lightheaded, no more nausea today. Mentally I am not bad off yet i don't feel like I want a sub not after LOL, and I don't want a painkiller either at this point. So I am in a place where I fee anxious... You know like what happenes next, Am I gonna be sick soon? I got used to feeling so sick without my meds?.... This is new to me. Luckily I only bought 6 subs I figured at 8mg dosing they would last awhile and that little bit costed me $60 dollars which isn't alot to me if I get my life back... I am starting to feel a lil bit positive that I may be able to kick this habit. Thanks Rob! for your help and support and to everyone else here. Truly makes a difference to know I am not alone. I will be back......







    This reply makes me feel better. You just bought ONLY a few subs and you don't have a bunch of money tied up in this. Spending $60 is NOTHING compared to the thousands of dollars so many spend on therapy. You have totally been blessed on this deal. And getting your life back ... well that is just a really cool blessing you got as an added bonus!

    You know the normal w/d symptoms. You should have experienced diarrhea by now if you were going to have it. But if it still happens take imodium AD as needed. It helps the tummy a lot IF you need it. Diarrhea and excessive sweating, etc, can leave you dehydrated (definitely if you get diarrhea). Drink Gatorade as it's loaded with electorlytes and will help. Go ahead and do that now anyway even with only the excessive sweating. Fluids are important.

    You can take OTC meds like ibuprofen or aleve for body aches or joint pain that can come with opiate detox. If you have any problems sleeping you can take excedrin PM or something similar. Also the BEST thing for opiate detox is in the mid-evening go for a good walk around the block, push yourself a little with some physical exercise as your physical condition tolerates.

    Your brain hasn't been producing ANY endorphines while using RX opiates. Exercise is the BEST medicine there is for kicking off our own natural endorphine production. So get some exercise mid-evening and then about an hour before bedtime take a long HOT shower/bath. Kick back and relax in that hot bath. With the exercise followed by the bath not long before bedtime you'll get to sleep so much more easily. I can't emphasize the benefits of the exercise and hot bath enough. You'll feel like a new person. That's a promise.

    You're going to find (if you're like most) that after you've been off the opiate pain pills for a short time that your real pain from the accident will improve. While we're addicted to our RX opiates they make our brain convince us the pain is worse than it really is. The brain wants more drugs so it will literally make us hurt more so we will be more likely to take the pills. Expect it and understand that it's just your brain messing with you.

    Your pain is real, but if you stick it out for a few more days a lot of that pain will begin to dissipate. It happens to almost everyone. I'm not saying you won't have anymore pain and that's it all in your head. I would never say that. But I am saying our brain makes these deals as bad for us as it can. Hang in there with me and by the end of this weekend I promise you'll feel like a brand new person. That's a personal guarantee!

    Keep us posted how you're doing. I can't tell you how excited I am for you! You did exactly what you were asked to do and look at you now! You're a good patient and it's going to pay off for you BIG TIME. Let us know how you progress. You're in my prayers. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 08-05-2009 at 06:02 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  28. #28
    intelmetal is offline Senior Member
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    Default Blackrainbow

    I cannot put into words how HAPPY I am for you ! I am so darn proud of you, and I've only read your posts for 1 day. I am in awe............I don't know what to say. I've been reading/posting hear for quite a while and have never encountered someone so blessed if this continues (and it should). So many people would give almost anything to be where you are.
    Keep up the GREAT WORK !!!
    IWANTOUT

    to live my life and to be free !

  29. #29
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by intelmetal View Post
    I cannot put into words how HAPPY I am for you ! I am so darn proud of you, and I've only read your posts for 1 day. I am in awe............I don't know what to say. I've been reading/posting hear for quite a while and have never encountered someone so blessed if this continues (and it should). So many people would give almost anything to be where you are.
    Keep up the GREAT WORK !!!
    IWANTOUT

    to live my life and to be free !






    Hey dude .... just for future reference for you as I know you make a point to help people and you do help people every chance you get. And you're GOOD at it too by the way! I really had this planned all along since the first post with blackrainbow. I obviously had NO way to know she would have the minimal w/d symptoms as she has had but I expected something close to this.

    When you encounter someone in the same situation as blackrainbow you've got to be very careful what you say when trying to convince them to stop taking RX drugs while they are sick and in the midst of precipitated w/d. That is a scary place to be for a person who is trying to detox and expecting good results with the subs. She obviously shouldn't have ever started on subs at the level she was consuming RX opiates. But if I had hammered on that when she first posted she would have taken it as a negative, judgemental reply and wouldn't have believed what I had to say. So it was just a matter of applying a little psychology 101.

    Get the belief level up by getting the person to stop the subs cold while having them planning on being re-inducted in another day or so. Then if they can't ever get to a 26 on the COWS worksheet (and by then they have confidence in you) it's a lot easier to get them to stop cold turkey than if I had suggested that while she was in precipitated w/d. Now she can see that what we are suggesting is the right thing to do. And if they do happen to hit the 26 on the COWS worksheet you just go ahead and do the induction as you said you would do. But that would be a situation where a six week taper would be a breeze to do. So either way a situation like this turns out it's going to be something relatively easy to deal with, at least it seems that way to me.

    This business is mostly psychology after you get down the basic knowledge that YOU already have. Just put yourself in their place and the answers will come more easily plus add a little experience. I just wanted to share that with you. Ten years of working on health/medical forums gives us some very useful tools. God bless.

    PS .... to blackrainbow ... hope you don't mind me using your situation as an example. Just trying to explain how to help others with similar circumstances as you. That is one of the cool things about this forum. We all get to help each other by our common experiences. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  30. #30
    blackrainbow is offline Junior Member
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    Smile Hard time dealing, still going....

    I am still here haven't drifted back into my usual routine of pain meds or suffered enough to pop another sub. I still couldn't believe how bad that made me feel . Anyways I don't mind you guys talking or referring to my case and what not. I figure there may be someone out there that may have been in the same situation as me and as lost as I was. Why I chose to post here, well the freedom to just speak out and have someone listen and give unbiased advice is nice. Bonus if they have been where I have and just knew what to say. My case, I was in this alone. My friends and family knew nothing of my probs, or at least I assume they didn't/don't. I went on a limb here just hoping that someone would reach out and respond to me. If they didn't well that was the chance I was willing to take. Before...... I actively tried to stop pain killers the last time was in feb of this year and the withdrawals were so bad not even 4-7 days out I was back to popping pills. I suffered everything mentioned. The worst though for me anyways was the mental stigma of addiction. I really don't think I was available to quit at that time. "I wasn't ready" . "I wasn't fed up yet". So giving up wasn't going to be easy. I managed to just survive taking a minimal amount of 5mg every 5 hours or so when I started to feel bleh. I was taking back in Feb 10mg every 4 hours so quitting was hard for me. This time I am feeling more positive that I can stop taking them. I think what made the absolute difference this time was being ready to stop fully. Sure the last few days have NOT been easy by any means. I flushed my last 2 percocets down the toilet just so I would not be tempted to take them. The craving has started, the first 2 days were easy cause I was sick. Now the challenge has really begun. Not going back to that is what I want. I thinking tapering myself down like I did made a difference too. Today I took a 800mg ibuprofen to help with the pain and kinda keep the chills down. Still getting those... It's worse in extreme heat it's been like a 100 degrees here and it really makes the withdrawal harder and it seems I get a sensation up my neck. The sensitivity to everything has been weird, I think what makes that strange is the whole feeling of it being new. I get goosebumps from everything. I do not feel normal without meds and I am positive or at least I keep my faith that it will eventually pass, all of it. Even the craving not sure how long it will be until I am normal again. Only time will tell....... Can't help being excited though because I feel I am getting something out of this, my life back. My days of depression are about to end cause I am doing this for myself. One of the important things I should share that last few days or so I have been reciting to myself over and over is, "If I can just get through today I will be fine" It makes it easier. Really just taking it by day and knowing that for today I was fine without a pill. Sounds like something members of NA would say. LOL I must have told myself like 30 times day one and today maybe twice so it is getting better. I just have to be strong, I have been weak for far too long. Another problem that I need advice with is dealing???? I am not getting too ahead of the game here cause I know I have a long ways to go but I am wondering about being without for months? How do people feel? Is anyone the same ever? What about when hard times lie ahead and you get the urge to take a pill? What am I expected not and in a few weeks time? Thanks to everyone you have been a big help to me here. Never thought I would have found this type of support here but I truly am grateful because it would have made it much difficult if I was alone. -Meanwhile I still am here detoxing ... I have gone out on a few walks and I am enjoying things differently for the first time. Kinda feel like the zoloft egg without the meds :P PS~ when are these adjustments to chills suppose to subside?

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