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I'm a pharmacist and I need help...
  1. #1
    chRxis is offline New Member
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    Exclamation I'm a pharmacist and I need help...

    I have been on 15 to 25 Hydrocodone pills (the strength of each depends on what prescriptions we fill daily, usually though, I get 10mg pills)... I'm so DONE with this! I'm tired of worrying about getting caught and having something VERY bad happen... I'm not even doing it anymore for the great feeling it gives you, but just to avoid withdrawals... It sucks, I feel like a prisoner in my own body...

    Anyway, I have a friend that has gone through the same thing (he ended up caught and having to go to rehab, though).... My plan was to taper from 12, to 6, to 3 pills starting today, that way days 3 and 4 will be this weekend and i can go through it at home. I plan on doing the Thomas Recipe (minus the Valium), but my friend said he would do 1/4 a Suboxone pill for 2 days, and that would be all I need for now, then after that I'd be fine.

    My question is would it be better to stay clear of the Suboxone completely, do the Thomas recipe only, or do the Suboxone for 2 days (after all it's only 1/2 of a single pill total, so I'm not worried about addiction to that nor withdrawals from it) then do the Thomas recipe?

    I've quit before, gone through the withdrawals, etc., but this time I just really can't seem to let it go... But I'm so tired of all of the lying, stealing, etc.

    And also, what can I do for the drug cravings during/after the Thomas recipe? I have unlimited access to the drug of my choice on a daily basis, so I'll need some assistance to steer clear from going to the shelf and popping a couple of pills to get me through a day at work.... Quitting my job is obviously not an option.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 04-06-2010 at 04:11 PM.

  2. #2
    chRxis is offline New Member
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    Anyone?? I am going through this alone, b/c I can't tell anyone, so I'm really needing some of ya'lls help... Can't tell my wife (she's a pharmacist too, and would DEFINITELY leave me), can't tell my parents, can't tell my friends (except my one friend who went through it, but it seems he doesn't want to be bothered with my problems).... It's so tough going through this alone, and one of the main reasons I go right back to what I know will solve my problems, or so I think.... pills.

  3. #3
    LondonToLA is offline Member
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    Dude! I read your post & can identify with you completely. If you look @ my profile statitistics, you will see the absolute HELL that I went through several times with opiate w/d and that I finally settled on detoxing through the use of Suboxone. That pill was a miracle as well as a devil for me, but, in my situation, it was the ONLY way I could get off opiates. You're a pharmacist, so you know that you have to be in moderate opiate W/D prior to starting a Suboxone regimin. My opiate habit was very similar to yours at its very worst, so perhaps what i went through might help you figure out if you want to go C/T or Suboxone. But man, you will still have serious serious issues having access to the opiates as a pharmacist, even after you've W/D from opiates. Stuck between a rock and a hard place. Let us know what you intend to do.

  4. #4
    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    Hi Chris,

    I didn't use suboxone to get clean; I tapered. So I can't advise you about that. But I do think if you're going to do the suboxone, you need more than two pills. It's not a stop-gap like that...you might as well just taper all the way off as get yourself on suboxone if you have only two pills.

    Your bigger problem, as you know well, is that you're an addict who has practically unlimited access to pills. You're going to be in a constant state of temptation unless you have some really strong tools for staying clean. Like they say, getting clean is easy, staying clean is hard: and you're going to be right up against it all the time. My best advice to you is to immerse yourself in NA. It can change your life, and it will provide you with real concrete tools you can use to deal with all the temptation you will be facing. It will also provide you with lots of people you can talk to, people who understand what you're going through.

    I know that going to NA can be inconvenient, and you don't want your wife to find out, but I think it's your best bet if you're going to save your life and your career.

    Would your wife really leave you if she found out about your habit? I know it's illegal and unethical, but the fact is it can't be all that uncommon among pharmacy professionals. People are people, after all. Is there any kind of help from any professional organization, or are they just completely in denial about the problem?

    Good luck to you, and please let us know how you are.

    Take care,
    Maisie

  5. #5
    PharmacistSupport is offline New Member
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    Default Confidential Addiction support

    Hi chRxis
    Don't know if you are familiar with Pharmacist Support, but we are an independent welfare charity for pharmacists, providing a range of free and confidential services including Listening Friends (a stress helpline), addiction support, information and signposting, financial assistance, debt, benefits and employment advice to any member or former member of the profession, pre-reg trainees and pharmacy students.
    We outsource our addiction support to Action on Addiction who provide around the clock support to any pharmacist who may need their help. As mentioned this service (as with all of our services) is completely confidential. We have supported numerous pharmacists through their times of difficulty, and should you decide that some form of treatment is the best course of action we can provide financial assistance should it be required.
    For more infomation visit our website and should you decide that you would like to speak confidentially (and annonymously if needed) with an addiction specialist, please call our freephone helpline on 0808 168 5132.

    General enquiry line: 0808 168 2233
    Listening Friends stress helpline: 0808 168 5133
    Addiction support helpline: 0808 168 5132
    -www.pharmacistsupport.org
    Last edited by ddcmod; 04-07-2010 at 06:01 AM.

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Something about this post doesn't ring "true" to me. If you are a pharmacist, you know drugs better than any of us. You see addiction day in, day out. You see suboxone use - day in, day out. You have access to the PDR and any number of other professional literature at your fingertips. Why you are coming onto a website and asking laypersons for advice seems a bit far-fetched to me.

    If you are a pharmacist, you must know that suboxone is NOT a drug to take for 2 days - period. You see the scripts; you've read the literature. The format to follow is laid out.

    I also know that there is a professional organization designed precisely for pharmacists dealing with addiction. I'm quite sure they handle addiction frequently - and confidentially. I believe they hold their own support groups.

    PS. Since posting, I see they have posted.

  7. #7
    RemSupreme is offline New Member
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    Your in a tough place ive been there but every weening method ive tried never worked cause I would end up taking a shot because it was friday or one of my friends birtdays.I was just scared to kick if you ween you cannot deviate from your schedule.And all that tylonel is killing your liver im guessin 500-650 mg tylenol each pill X 25 you will ruin your liver fast.Try Going on a 30 day methadone detox that way you wont get hooked on meth.Good Luck if I did it you can and once you kick it will only take a few days to get sick not months before you got your 1st habit.Its gonna be hard because its right in your face just think how your life revolves around a pill and hopefully you will keep your hand out of the cookie jar,its gonna be hard but I know about 4 people who had massive >>>>>> addiction and are clean for years now.

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    chRxis is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARTIST658 View Post
    Something about this post doesn't ring "true" to me. If you are a pharmacist, you know drugs better than any of us. You see addiction day in, day out. You see suboxone use - day in, day out. You have access to the PDR and any number of other professional literature at your fingertips. Why you are coming onto a website and asking laypersons for advice seems a bit far-fetched to me.

    If you are a pharmacist, you must know that suboxone is NOT a drug to take for 2 days - period. You see the scripts; you've read the literature. The format to follow is laid out.

    I also know that there is a professional organization designed precisely for pharmacists dealing with addiction. I'm quite sure they handle addiction frequently - and confidentially. I believe they hold their own support groups.

    PS. Since posting, I see they have posted.
    i'm sorry my scenario doesn't "seem true" to you... i have lurked here for a long time, checking out anything that might possibly help.... i only recently registered because i am tired of using... my biggest problem is that i don't have the luxury of telling my family and friends about my struggle, so i have to get support from an internet forum... sad, huh?

    yeah, i know alot about drugs, not just opiates... that doesn't mean that "laypersons" can't offer me new insight to alternative measures, or even helpful hints with medications that i should/do know about... actually, suboxone use isn't as prevalent as you might think...i know enough about suboxone to know it has a very long half life (37 hours), which would equate to it taking about 9.5 to 10 days to get out of my system... too many days to have to worry about a random drug test, which i CANNOT fail, or risk losing everything... i REALLY don't want to use this medication for even 1 day, but if days 3 and 4 are TOTAL hell, then i plan on doing my own thing, with the advice of my friend who went through suboxone therapy, who is also a pharmacist... i know it's use is not supposed to be tapered that quick, but then again i'm not supposed to be popping hyrocodone everyday, all day either... i wasn't taking that correct, so why start taking something else correctly? yeah, there's support groups but there isn't anything confidential about these, and again, i can't just up and quit my job, at would look really odd, and questions will get asked, to which i have no answer...

    i'm asking for advice because people here have beaten this addiction with alternative methods... i have never quit voluntarily before (usually, quitting meant i had no access to opiates)... that's how desperate i am to get off of this so i don't have duck and dodge every day at work, lie to pretty much everyone, feel guilty about the things i'm doing.... what would i stand to gain to dupe some strangers on an internet site? what would be motivating factor?

    today, like usual, i woke up and the first thing i thought of, like always, was where's my Lortab... well, today is my day 1... the next 2 days will be tough b/c i'll be at work those days (around opiates, of course), but at least day 4 (april 10th, my birthday) will be at home, so at least i'll be in my comfort zone during my worst day (for me, anyway)...

  9. #9
    terry120635 is offline Member
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    I have a question, when you go fill a prescription, lets say for norco, does the pharmacist automatically always check you MAPS?

  10. #10
    sisterwin2 is offline Senior Member
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    Chrxis,

    "after all its just 1/4 a pill" statement really thru me for a loop. Come on... 1/4 a pill?????

    Well, if your the one filling the scripts that patrons are depending on... worries me.

    But... maybe your just not thinking straight right now. As we all know the detox is nothing compared to the whole picture. In lifes terms, a few weeks or a few months of discomfort is small compared to a life time of being opiate free. I have been thru many detoxes, from percs to >>>>>> and last suboxone. I never seem to get the hint that the detox is easy compared to staying clean. After 35 yrs, I finally understood.

    First, JMHO, For the amt of hydro's your on I would not go near suboxone. But if that is what you chose then three-five days of low dose sub would get you thru the hump. What happens in the USA and with MD that take the 8 hr course... its never just 3-5 day course on sub but ends up 3-5 months, then yrs.

    What is more important is learning how to live drug free. You didn't say how long you have been taking the hydro but with sao you have a better chance that you have not shut down the ability to produce your own endorphins. I would suggest that you set up now a support system, the other pharm who suggested the support system of your own peers sounds right on to me. I promise that going right back to the same environment after the detox, you will just have wasted your time detoxing.

    The way I see it, your setting yourself up for failure. Secrets are what keep me using for many yrs. Isolation just fueled my addiction and addict behavior.

    Sum it up.... you can not do this alone. You need to learn how to live opiate free, learn how to share, be apart of this world.... I just dont see the willingness by your post what it takes to remain sober. I wish you well. I wish you the gift of honesty and most of all, I wish you true peace.

  11. #11
    sisterwin2 is offline Senior Member
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    suggestion for a easier detox from hydro is Clonidine, lomotil and motrin..... This should make your detox manageable. Clonidine will help with the chills/sweats, lomotil will assist with the nausea/vomiting/loose stools and also will help subside the opiate wd a bit. It has a small amt of opiate in it but it dosnt pass the brain bld barrier and dosnt tend to be addictive. Motrin will assist with the back/shoulder pain that we all must endure with a detox.

    Again.... without support your chances are slim to remain clean.

  12. #12
    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by chRxis View Post
    i'm sorry my scenario doesn't "seem true" to you... i have lurked here for a long time, checking out anything that might possibly help.... i only recently registered because i am tired of using... my biggest problem is that i don't have the luxury of telling my family and friends about my struggle, so i have to get support from an internet forum... sad, huh?

    yeah, i know alot about drugs, not just opiates... that doesn't mean that "laypersons" can't offer me new insight to alternative measures, or even helpful hints with medications that i should/do know about... actually, suboxone use isn't as prevalent as you might think...i know enough about suboxone to know it has a very long half life (37 hours), which would equate to it taking about 9.5 to 10 days to get out of my system... too many days to have to worry about a random drug test, which i CANNOT fail, or risk losing everything... i REALLY don't want to use this medication for even 1 day, but if days 3 and 4 are TOTAL hell, then i plan on doing my own thing, with the advice of my friend who went through suboxone therapy, who is also a pharmacist... i know it's use is not supposed to be tapered that quick, but then again i'm not supposed to be popping hyrocodone everyday, all day either... i wasn't taking that correct, so why start taking something else correctly? yeah, there's support groups but there isn't anything confidential about these, and again, i can't just up and quit my job, at would look really odd, and questions will get asked, to which i have no answer...

    i'm asking for advice because people here have beaten this addiction with alternative methods... i have never quit voluntarily before (usually, quitting meant i had no access to opiates)... that's how desperate i am to get off of this so i don't have duck and dodge every day at work, lie to pretty much everyone, feel guilty about the things i'm doing.... what would i stand to gain to dupe some strangers on an internet site? what would be motivating factor?

    today, like usual, i woke up and the first thing i thought of, like always, was where's my Lortab... well, today is my day 1... the next 2 days will be tough b/c i'll be at work those days (around opiates, of course), but at least day 4 (april 10th, my birthday) will be at home, so at least i'll be in my comfort zone during my worst day (for me, anyway)...
    Chris,

    I apologize for my hesitation and doubt. We've had a number of odd folks post here, claiming to be something they weren't - and who knows why! (Attention??) Last one I recall was someone claiming to be a NYC police detective... oh, never mind... lol

    I didn't use suboxone; it wasn't available when I got clean years ago. So yes, I did it "cold-turkey." It made for about 3-5 days of discomfort - but nothing unbearable. In fact, I think the anticipation of how "bad" it would be was worse than it actually was. Lots of hot baths (great for the restless legs and muscle aches), lots of water to flush my system, vitamins (with extra vitamin Bs) to replenish a weakened body, and frequent AA meetings. (I found I preferred the longevity of AA over NA. It's all the same disease.) The meetings were actually the BEST help for my anxiety; it seemed to VANISH when I was at the meeting.

    I think the clonidine may help, but would suggest imodium over lomotil, as lomotil does contain a narcotic. I also made use of melatonin for sleep and drank kava tea to help with anxiety. (Kava kava is a natural remedy for anxiety.)

    As hokey as it sounds, a positive attitude through it really makes it far better. As you get through each hour, applaud yourself for it. Seriously. Each hour is an hour further away from that life. Do this right, and you will NEVER have to go through this again. Do not get caught up in bashing yourself for mistakes you made; you're human. Addiction is a horrific disease, and it affects anyone. Perhaps you can gain some solace by reading up on the topic of THIQ, which is a substance found only in the brains of addicts and alcoholics: Odd thing is, it made me feel better, to learn I wasn't "weak" or a "terrible" person; I began to understand that this truly is a disease and we are physiologically wired differently.

    You DO need support - absolutely. Stopping drugs is actually the easiest part; staying stopped is what trips most folks up. You need to look into the best solution for you for support, due to your desire to keep it confidential. Generally, the suggestions I offer are NA, AA, Celebrate Recovery, a counselor, a minister, and online support, as a last resort. I have a lot of experience with detoxing and early recovery, as I work in a long-term treatment center for addiction. I see this daily. The more support we have, the better our chances.

    Cravings will come, and working where you do is a terrible temptation. (I doubt I could do it!!!!) You will need to develop new coping skills, to deal with cravings - and to deal with the day-to-day stressors of life. I found that help through AA and one-on-one counseling. Without healthy coping skills, we're doomed to return to the drugs when emotions overwhelm us.

    Please continue to make use of this forum for support (and to vent your feelings), but I do hope you seek out other avenues to help you through this.

    God bless,
    Ruth
    Last edited by ddcmod; 04-08-2010 at 06:48 AM.

  13. #13
    chRxis is offline New Member
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    no, i don't think i will be coming back here... what i needed was some suppor through this, but all i have been met with so far is "your story doesn't seem true" and "you can't make it through" this.... according some of the stuff i'm reading from my supposed support system, i might as not even try b/c just because the entire world doesn't know i'm stealing pills and taking them, then i'm never gonna learn, and shame on me for thinking that i could!


    you have no idea who i am... you don't know my mindset, character, anything... i reveal a piece of myself this board, and automatically i have to conform to what you would view as the "correct" way to go about this.... it might be a great way, but it's not the only way!! you think everyone that has quit drugs HAD to go to REHAB or 12 step meetings??? no, some people wake up, say enough is enough, and turn away completely from it.... my biggest 2 problems with this (aside from the free access to my drug of choice) was 1.) absolutely no reprecussion for my action and 2.) i've never TRULY wanted to quit, stupid i know...


    i would like to thank sisterwin2... your words of "encouragement" really did a lot for me... they REALLY did... you have no clue how pissed i was when i saw what you wrote in your first post... this is why i thank you... it has given me more motivation than the idea of getting clean for myself, my family, etc. ever could... to prove you wrong that i don't have to fit into the nice, neat, traditional mold of what an addict should do to kick their habit... if you can't see my absolute disdain and overall tone of sarcasm in this section, well then...

    i will leave your site saying this... some of you need to learn how to really listen to the people that come here for YOUR support, because you might be the only support they have (that would be my situation)... getting up on your bully pulpit to lecture them about spilling their guts, joining every group under the sun, etc. doesn't exactly help everyone that visits here...

    thank for all the "support"...

  14. #14
    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    I beg your pardon? I don't think that's a fair characterization of my post, do you? (Or of the pharmacist's post, for that matter.) You didn't respond to anything I said, so I didn't post back. No one likes to talk into a vacuum.

    With that in mind, I'll leave off here. If you do happen to come back to read, I wish you luck in getting/staying clean and getting on with your life.

    Maisie

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by chRxis View Post
    no, i don't think i will be coming back here... what i needed was some suppor through this, but all i have been met with so far is "your story doesn't seem true" and "you can't make it through" this.... according some of the stuff i'm reading from my supposed support system, i might as not even try b/c just because the entire world doesn't know i'm stealing pills and taking them, then i'm never gonna learn, and shame on me for thinking that i could!


    you have no idea who i am... you don't know my mindset, character, anything... i reveal a piece of myself this board, and automatically i have to conform to what you would view as the "correct" way to go about this.... it might be a great way, but it's not the only way!! you think everyone that has quit drugs HAD to go to REHAB or 12 step meetings??? no, some people wake up, say enough is enough, and turn away completely from it.... my biggest 2 problems with this (aside from the free access to my drug of choice) was 1.) absolutely no reprecussion for my action and 2.) i've never TRULY wanted to quit, stupid i know...


    i would like to thank sisterwin2... your words of "encouragement" really did a lot for me... they REALLY did... you have no clue how pissed i was when i saw what you wrote in your first post... this is why i thank you... it has given me more motivation than the idea of getting clean for myself, my family, etc. ever could... to prove you wrong that i don't have to fit into the nice, neat, traditional mold of what an addict should do to kick their habit... if you can't see my absolute disdain and overall tone of sarcasm in this section, well then...

    i will leave your site saying this... some of you need to learn how to really listen to the people that come here for YOUR support, because you might be the only support they have (that would be my situation)... getting up on your bully pulpit to lecture them about spilling their guts, joining every group under the sun, etc. doesn't exactly help everyone that visits here...

    thank for all the "support"...
    I may not know you - your character, your mindset - but I know addiction. And this kind of a reaction - on the SECOND day that you're trying to quit - is not at all unusual from an addict. You wanted an excuse to use - and you created one. I'm not about to buy into the guilt trip that you wrote. No one is responsible for you continuing to use and abuse drugs - but you.

    I am sorry that you weren't ready for the time, effort and courage it takes to overcome drug addiction. You wanted an "easy out" where you could put the drugs down and move on with your life. Many addicts want that - as they are used to "easy outs" from a pill or a shot. But there is no easy solution like that to a disease like addiction. No quick fix. It is a powerful, insidious complex disease that affects not just the body and mind, but every aspect of a person's being: social, financial, emotional, spiritual, all of it. Putting down the drugs is only one small step in the right direction. There's a tremendous amount of inner work to be done. Few people are up for it. Few people do actually recover successfully from drug addiction. It is more powerful than most of us are.

    I honestly do not have a "Plan B" to offer folks who don't want to step OUT of their comfort zone and follow what works for millions of others. Addiction doesn't have a dozen solutions that I know of. My advice was not an attempt to make your life miserable; it was advice that saved my life - and the lives of hundreds of other addicts I have worked with over the years. I do not know a way to recover alone, without any support. I tried and tried - as most of us do - and my success was short-lived.

    For me, I had to endure several more years of the (inevitable) progression of this fatal disease, becoming ever more miserable and desperate - before I would finally admit, I need help. I can't do it alone. All the fancy degrees, brilliant job titles and fancy trappings of success couldn't hide it anymore. I was a drug addict - and I couldn't recover from it on my own. That is what it took for me to become fully willing to do whatever I had to do, in order to overcome this nightmare that was killing me.

    No one victimized you here. No one bullied you. We told it to you straight, as we saw it. But no one offered you an easy answer, and that's what is apparently upsetting you. When we start using drugs to get through life, we stop growing emotionally; our coping skills are next to nil. Every time things don't go our way, we run back to a pill. Every time the emotions get stirred, we feel a need to medicate it. It takes a lot of work - patience, effort, pain, hurt, anger, fear - to face life without that escape. I am truly sorry you gave up on yourself.

    If you find another solution that helps you to find long-term recovery, I hope you'll return to post it here.

    God bless,
    Ruth

  16. #16
    chRxis is offline New Member
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    who's running back to pills?? I never said I was going back to using... quite the contrary! I FULLY am quitting (day 2 is UNBELIEVABLY going great, actually!! I keep telling myself it's day 3 to psych myself out for what's to come!) and staying quit... wanna know what pissed me off?
    put the shoe on the other foot... u are wanting to quit a 8 year off and on opiate addiction and u come to an internet forum seeking help b/c u have NOWHERE else to turn, and one of the first things out of someone is "your story seems false" or whatever... how would u feel? put off? angry? confused? disappointed? I feel all of those things, and trust me, my detox has nothing to do w/ those feelings... other ppl here get "congrats on trying to quit" etc. and I get, basically, your lying... wtf??
    and let me ask another question... why is it that one HAS TO join some club or admitt everything to everyone or you are DESTINED to fail? or u more apt?? sure, i'll conceed that... but what I got from your post was I have to do the traditonal, known-to-work route or i'm screwed... will I relapse? maybe, maybe not.... but rehab isn't a 100 percent thing either... I know several ppl that went for a while to rehab, the sober living, swore up and down that was it, only to relapse at the first or second opportunity.... I agree those who go to meetings and whatever stand a better chance, but I have mentioned more than once that is NOT an option, and still I get lectured about meetings....
    I came back for one last post b/c it irritated me that you would equate me leaving the forum b/c i'm dissatified w/ the "support" as me "running back to the pills"... how narrow minded is that assumption?

  17. #17
    shybaybe2003 is offline Senior Member
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    i havent read the entire thread yet, so i am not sure what is going on, but i am here to lend you support. I was a pharmacy tech for a few years, and got addicted to hydrocodone, 10/300. I obtained my meds very easily, which i am sure you know what i mean. It was a terrible feeling, needing the drugs, being so afraid of getting caught. I no longer work in a pharmacy, I will not let myself. I am however still struggling with my addiction. Again, I do not know what happended, i will go back and look at the whole thread, but what you need is support, and i give that to you fully. We dont need to be judged or ridiculed and we def dont need to be told are stories are not true. thats insane. i hope you keep posting.
    shy

  18. #18
    Soobie is offline Member
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    chRxis,
    if you do happen to drop back in, I hope you're doing OK. It must be really hard for you to go through this without being able to really confide in anyone. I'm an addict too. You sound committed to quitting, that's awesome. Good luck It's hard to be an addict in healthcare. You have a lot to lose if people find out. None of us want to feel judged or lose what we've worked so hard for. I'm glad you decided to quit before the embarrassment of an arrest or any other nightmare happened. I'm rooting for you.

  19. #19
    terry120635 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shybaybe2003 View Post
    i havent read the entire thread yet, so i am not sure what is going on, but i am here to lend you support. I was a pharmacy tech for a few years, and got addicted to hydrocodone, 10/300. I obtained my meds very easily, which i am sure you know what i mean. It was a terrible feeling, needing the drugs, being so afraid of getting caught. I no longer work in a pharmacy, I will not let myself. I am however still struggling with my addiction. Again, I do not know what happended, i will go back and look at the whole thread, but what you need is support, and i give that to you fully. We dont need to be judged or ridiculed and we def dont need to be told are stories are not true. thats insane. i hope you keep posting.
    shy
    Hi Chris

    day 2 on detox, great job and i hope all is going well for you. I hope you dont leave the forum, there are alot of great people here and good advice. Just stick around and get the support you need to get you through this. That's is my advice to you. And good luck on your detox.

    Terry

  20. #20
    shybaybe2003 is offline Senior Member
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    Default in response to artist

    With all respect to Artist....That was a very stupid comment, no offense. Where do you get off saying he is lying about being a pharmacist anyway? Are you one? Are you a Doctor? When I was prescribed Subs, my doc told me he he just wanted me to be on it to get thru the physical w/d's. Also,The reason he prob wants to come here is so he can remain anonymous plus get support from people who understand, not people who are going to say he is lying. way to go artist. next time maybe you should think before calling someone a liar who is trying to do what we all are doing, get help and get clean. How would you have liked it if someone had said stuf like that o you when you first came here?
    Not Cool

  21. #21
    shybaybe2003 is offline Senior Member
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    Red face sorry artist

    i didnt read the whole thread before I posted, I seen you apologized. Sorry for jumping on you before I read the whole thibg

  22. #22
    misspriss52223 is offline New Member
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    Default if it helps

    I know what your going through to a degree. I am right now on the last day of a 21 day meth detox and I want to break down in tears. Ive been on vicodin mostly what ever I could get if I couldnt get that but mostly vicodin usually 120 to 200 mg a day for 3 years. I just couldnt do it anymore I was out of pills couldnt find anymore for a couple days and desperately didnt want to use anymore. I went cold turkey with the mind set that this was it I wasnt going to use anymore. I run a very large multi million dollar company. Its a family owned business which I have taken over and most people dont know about my problem.However it seemed more AND more people knew and even if you think no one knows its more likely that someone does and you just dont want anyone around you to.
    Back to my story though I went in for the first time with the thought that I was completely done and for the first time I wasnt crumpled in a ball crying in 12 hours. However 29 hours in I just wanted to not be alive anymore if it meant I wouldnt hv to feel that way anymore. I started taking pills cause they made me feel great here I am years later not having felt great from them in at least a yr on the bathroom floor wanting to die. At that point I found a detox center and enrolled thinking if I can just get over the pain ill be fine.
    Im not fine today was my last detox day I went in for my final 2mg of meth this morning and I have been hysterical for the last three days. I feel defeated and like a failure. I feel as if I will never be free of this and like I should give up. For the pharamist this is one thing I do know 21 days have made it so my body doesnt hurt anymore. But 21 days didnt change the job im on call for 24 hrs a day. The 3 kids that always need something from me and see to always be running a muck. It didnt change the husband with mental health issues who gets worse weekly. It didnt change the degradation and beatings I suffer at his hands. Hes been gone for a few days now I hope im strong enough to keep it that way . I doubt I will be though I dont feel strong enough to do anything anymore. I honestly felt if I could gt through the pain >> be ok but im not. So please dont get mad at these people for telling you that just getting through withdrawal isnt enough I promise you it isnt. Im there im at the end of withdrawal and it isnt enough you have to change what led you down your path in the first place.
    Just to let you know i dont attend meetings I didnt tell everyone about my program im alone in this to. I have people text me all time about buying AND ITs so hard to say no. Im alone to im not saying what im saying to discourage at all just to for warn its not because im not done with it im done with it but all's i want to do is cry and i hope you prepare for whats to come and make some changes.
    im thinking of going on subutex for awhile Im not sure what else to do. Any advice? Im 28 and should have the world ahead of me and yet I feel so hopeless right now

  23. #23
    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by chRxis View Post
    who's running back to pills?? I never said I was going back to using... quite the contrary! I FULLY am quitting (day 2 is UNBELIEVABLY going great, actually!! I keep telling myself it's day 3 to psych myself out for what's to come!) and staying quit... wanna know what pissed me off?
    put the shoe on the other foot... u are wanting to quit a 8 year off and on opiate addiction and u come to an internet forum seeking help b/c u have NOWHERE else to turn, and one of the first things out of someone is "your story seems false" or whatever... how would u feel? put off? angry? confused? disappointed? I feel all of those things, and trust me, my detox has nothing to do w/ those feelings... other ppl here get "congrats on trying to quit" etc. and I get, basically, your lying... wtf??
    and let me ask another question... why is it that one HAS TO join some club or admitt everything to everyone or you are DESTINED to fail? or u more apt?? sure, i'll conceed that... but what I got from your post was I have to do the traditonal, known-to-work route or i'm screwed... will I relapse? maybe, maybe not.... but rehab isn't a 100 percent thing either... I know several ppl that went for a while to rehab, the sober living, swore up and down that was it, only to relapse at the first or second opportunity.... I agree those who go to meetings and whatever stand a better chance, but I have mentioned more than once that is NOT an option, and still I get lectured about meetings....
    I came back for one last post b/c it irritated me that you would equate me leaving the forum b/c i'm dissatified w/ the "support" as me "running back to the pills"... how narrow minded is that assumption?
    Your reaction to my words seems a tad excessive, even after I apologized for thinking something you said "didn't ring true." I explained what I meant - and I apologized after. if you don't care to accept my amends, that's up to you.

    I have a tremendous amount of compassion for struggling addicts. I do this for a living, as it means that much to me. I left a lucrative career for pennies on the dollar, to help the next person to get clean. But I can not hold the hand of people who insist on doing things THEIR way, when they ask for my help to turn their lives around. It just doesn't work. My perspective is not unique. In fact, the AA big book describes it well:


    (Page 58 Third edition) "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.... If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps. At some of these, we balked. We thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all of the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil - until we let go absolutely. Half measures availed us nothing."
    I struggled trying to get clean for four years, trying to do it MY way, 1986 to 1990. By then, my disease had progressed to the point that I became utterly desperate to get help; I had to surrender to doing what others had done successfully to be free of this disease. Of course, I wanted to have someone just love and congratulate me back to health - but that's codependency, not recovery. I went inpatient for 6 months in a treatment center in 1990. That's the kind of surrender it took for me to turn my life around. My counselor was a proponent of "tough love." She told me like it was - and I resented her for it at the time. But, over the months, I came to see what she meant - after I accepted that I, too, was an addict like anyone else in that treatment center... and I couldn't recover on my own. Quite honestly, her direct, straight-forward approach saved my life.

    I did not preach that you had to tell the world. I suggested that you needed outside help, and suggested such options as a counselor or a minister or online support. All you focused on was meetings. To be honest with you, when I sponsor women in this program, I insist that they attend meetings - if they want my help as a sponsor. I can't work with someone who is not completely willing to go to any lengths to stay clean and sober.

    As far as "narrow-minded" thinking that you'd return to pills with that attitude, it was based on my own extensive experience working with addicts. It's not unusual that an addict gets utterly ticked off with those who are trying to help and takes off from the treatment center where I work. I'd say that 99 out of 100 times that happens, they relapse. Might take a day or a week or a month - but their rage at the ones who are trying to help tends to tell me that they have the wrong outlook on recovery. I don't think that was narrow-minded at all - it is what statistics have demonstrated to me.

    I'm sure others can hold your hand through this; I noticed many who are in the early stages of recovery who have offered support to you. However, I've been clean for many, many years - and work in the field - so I told you what I saw and told you what I know about recovery. I won't sugar-coat it. My work is battling a killer of a disease, and I understand what it takes to overcome it. It wasn't what you wanted to hear - and your reaction to it has gone overboard. If you don't like what I have to say, just ignore it. No need to carry on.

  24. #24
    Soobie is offline Member
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    I'm glad you're doing well. I'm sorry about your friend, it sucks that he hasn't contacted you. Does your wife suspect anything, with the extra supplements, etc? It probably would be easier if you could confide in her. Maybe someday? It's hard to drop an addiction and not ever look back. I hope you can.
    Please be careful at work, I know of professionals losing their jobs over diverting even non-controlled meds.
    One nurse I knew diverted a few (4) glucophage and lasix tabs (too lazy to pick up rx). The nurse relieving her noticed the tabs gone from the card and reported her-license suspended, job lost. She still had to go through all the monitoring/rehab/monthly reports.
    It's very tempting to treat yourself, but if you're not the only one working there, someone may notice things not adding up.

  25. #25
    Soobie is offline Member
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    I had to leave the computer abruptly before, sorry. My point was that stupid things happen- like getting caught taking something like a non-controlled med after you've decided to stop, so don't take the risk on dexamethasone. I was also asking about your wife, kind of hoping you could confide in her. I know my offerings of listening and being gentle are greatly devalued here, my opinions are worthless to some. That's OK. I just wanted to let you know you aren't alone. If I read things right, you needed someone to listen.This site may not be right for either of us. Good luck.

  26. #26
    chRxis is offline New Member
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    a pharmacist toxicology screen will go over controlled substances, or to be exact, drugs of abuse... i once failed one after taking 1 Hydro 5mg from my mom (funny thing is, i was actually clean at the time, but was helping my dad and smashed my finger and in a TON of pain!)... long story short, i got popped, but my company has a one time family use clause, so i retained my job... at the time i was on Lasix and asked them, jokingly "so, you found my Lasix in my system huh?", knowing i failed for Hydro... the Doc said no, the only thing that came back was dihydrocodeine and hydromorphone (both metabolites of hydrocodone elimination)... i'm guessing different healthcare professionals have different tests, or at least i would think... some healthcare professionals don't have access to narcotics, but to other drugs and thus have to be tested for what they may actually have contact with... dunno, maybe i'm wrong, but based on my experience, i'm not too worried....

    but this is the longest i've actually gotten voluntarily!! and the physical is almost done, but the weird thing is i haven't had the first craving.... really odd, even when i'm counting out 180 Lortab for some of my patients, it's like a switch went off or something... really odd, because before i'd be like "0k, 30 for you, 5 for me, 30 more for you, 5 more for me", etc..... but it's honestly SO different this time!! whatever, i'm just glad to kinda be outta the woods a bit.... long, long way to go, and cravings are funny sometimes, but so far it's going really, and strangly, well....
    Last edited by ddcmod; 04-10-2010 at 04:08 AM.

  27. #27
    Soobie is offline Member
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    I see you got edited. It happens here.Entire posts or portions of posts will be removed.
    I was concerned for you for actual pills missing from inventory and getting caught that way, not through toxicology screens. That's what happened to the nurse I mentioned.
    I'm glad you're feeling better and able to somehow use a shut off valve when handling meds. The ability to shut off or separate can be useful. (some call it denial). Well, anyway, I hope you method works for you.

  28. #28
    chRxis is offline New Member
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    i honestly believe the only reason i haven't gotten caught red handed yet is because I work at different pharmacies (same company) during the week.... my higher volume stores (stores that could possibly have higher "shrink", or theft) i hit "harder" than my lower volume stores because it'd be easier to narrow down due to less sales, inventory, and personnel... really sad that this is how i have seen it for so long, but i did....

    drug diversion is a big problem in pretty much all pharmacies, and we have a system that allows us to check what has been negatively adjusted, so i checked that frequently, for my stores and for "problem" stores to kind of gauge what Loss Prevention might actually lean to investigate.... i would also constantly switch what i took, never taking more than 10 tablets of any 1 type of hydrocodone product at one time.... for example, say a weekend was coming, i knew i needed about 40 to 50 tablets to make it from Friday afternoon to Monday afternoon when i was back in the pharmacy.... so i'd get some 10/500s, 10/325s, etc.... if i were to take all 10/500's the substantiated loss for that one product would draw concern from LP... so i basically "skimmed" off of all of them, pretty much, and kept it to quantities that, if looked into, could possibly be rationalized (we count by 5's in pharmacy, so there's plenty of times where we miss a 5 count of pills or put 5 too many)... plus i would every so often break some of the tablets on the tray, so it looked like we had some thrown out due to waste, to kind of make up for the difference.... i could always say "well, i bottled the broken ones, but i don't know what everyone else does with their broken ones".....

    i know this is really horrible, but when you are an addict, with perpetual (or so it seems) access, you tend to think this way...

    day 4 going pretty well... think the emotional part is about to get underway, but then again it's my birthday and my wife is at work and not here with me.... i'm done with my Dexamethasone and clonidine stops Sunday night... haven't really needed the Clonidine too much, but don't want to "need" it and not have it either.... RLS is kicking my butt at night and fatigue later in the day sucks, but as far as physical, want to die pain, haven't had it pretty much at all, except early on day 1, and slightly on day 2.... still no cravings, but again, those are funny and come at unsuspecting times...

  29. #29
    Soobie is offline Member
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    Happy birthday. I hope it's the only one you ever have to feel like this. Addiction truly does make you rationalize and justify stuff. The brain is so complex and fragile. Addiction sucks, period. Is the Thomas recipe helping you at all ? Some people really love their benadryl, motrin, walks and hot baths for RLS (I know you know that, I'm just being motherly, I guess). Chicken soup is almost never a bad idea Sometimes we're too smart for our own good and we forget the "little" details like how to take care of ourselves.

  30. #30
    chRxis is offline New Member
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    thanks... it was a good birthday! the physical symptoms seem to be about over now.... the Thomas recipe definitely worked for me, but the biggest thing for me was to be mentally strong.... every other time i've tried to quit, i'd start hurting or whatever and i'd take the easy road, mainly because it's just right there...

    i knew this time i had to change my way of going about getting clean, and mentally prepare for what i was going to go through, by my own decision... i basically keep telling myself to not feel any physical symptoms and that whatever day it is as far as being clean (today is day 5, quit wednesday), i add a day to it, mentally, because i know the further away i am from my "quit" date the less physical symptoms i have.... this doesn't really help w/ the emotional part, but i gotta fight my battles once at a time... right now, i just want to get out of the woods with the physical stuff.

    eventually, the cravings will come... the emotions will come... the second guessing will come... the "just one won't hurt" will come.... am i ready for that? not really, not right now, but everyday is a step closer...

    my plan going forward is to just call friends when cravings come at work.... as long as i don't actually take anything, because i don't have a script at home, nor any other narcotics at my place, i can't use..... i'm going to employ a support system without them actually knowing they will be my support system! i can always reach my wife and my mom, so even if no one else answers, i KNOW i can get them on the phone.... and just talk, immerse myself into a conversation to get my mind off of the cravings, then move back to "work" for the day....
    Last edited by ddcmod; 04-11-2010 at 02:08 PM.

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